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(Hot Air)   Obama in January: GOP Idea for medicare vouchers is horrible. Obama September 6, 2012: I will never put Medicare into a voucher program. Sept. 7, 2012: Obama administration starts a pilot program of 2 million seniors on a voucher program   (hotair.com) divider line 93
    More: Fail, Health and Human Services Department, HHS, obama, health insurance plans, cost accounts, Ed Morrissey, Time Warner Cable, GOP  
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1130 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Sep 2012 at 4:20 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-09 08:08:55 AM

LordJiro: hasty ambush: Is this the token Fark anti-Obama/Democrat article for the week?

Hey look, a Republican who hasn't been paying attention.


All they can do is lie. Its like a sickness for them.
 
2012-09-09 08:32:15 AM
States Rights! oh wait..
 
2012-09-09 08:35:30 AM

UCFRoadWarrior: Few are willing to admit that Obama and Romney really have little political differences...both are very much big government liberals.


Dang, when you get up in the morning and look in the mirror how do you manage to feel like you are just another brainless twit? Seriously, if one of my best friends said anything like that (we be school teachers) I'd suggest they get themselves a permanent seat on the short bus. That's like people today saying Nixon was really a liberal because the EPA was enacted under his administration (Nixon was against it but got overruled by Congress critters). And the future second coming of Jesus had an itchy trigger finger but he didn't have enough brain cells left to figure out the nuclear (nucular for the 'cons) codes.
 
2012-09-09 08:35:38 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 850x466]


I thought he always played a Gibson?
 
2012-09-09 08:39:16 AM

MFAWG: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 850x466]

I thought he always played a Gibson?


Was Lucille caught cheating on him? Or does Fender have worse "action" so he does his bottleneck playing on a Fender (he doesn't usually do bottleneck). I'd like to know, I'd like to know, there's hungry folks ask me where ever I go" (I know, that's Arlo's dad's song, but . . .).
 
2012-09-09 08:43:52 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Medicare != Medicaid you dipshiats.

 
2012-09-09 08:49:40 AM
The only Fail here seems to be the facts in the article, I could give subby the benefit of the doubt that he was being clever, but I doubt this is the case.
 
2012-09-09 08:52:19 AM

Gyrfalcon: Because it's how partisan politics works. Always.
Man, it didn't used to be that way. In my lifetime, it's gone from polite disdain to cutthroat elections to "Let's kill the other side ALL THE FREAKING TIME because f*ck the American public."
I mean, I'm not even that old, and I can still remember when things actually got done in Congress.


*sigh*. Yeah, I can remember that too.
 
2012-09-09 09:10:08 AM

SecretAgentWoman: Benevolent Misanthrope: Medicare != Medicaid you dipshiats.


Hey it's all something that starts with "Medi" so its the same damn thing! Just like Air Force and Airports, same damn thing!

/When will LAX quit bombing targets in Afganistan?
 
2012-09-09 09:13:45 AM
A republican news media us outraged--outraged, I say--that Obama is doing exactly what the republicans want!

Damn Obama!
 
2012-09-09 09:15:21 AM

hasty ambush: Is this the token Fark anti-Obama/Democrat article for the week?


Yes, that and 12 American Thinkers, 11 Breitbarts, 10 NROs, 9 The Daily Callers, 8 World Net Daily, 7 FoxNews, 6 WashingtonTimes, 5 Investors.com, 4 Townhalls, 3 Reason.com's, 2 Redstate.com's and a Hot Air in a pear tree.
 
2012-09-09 09:20:24 AM

xiaodown: Going out on a limb to say either this is false or taken out of context.

(reads article)

Yep. These are the states that are governed by the rule that says that they can only do this if the quality of care is equal to or better than the care that they get on traditional medicaid. The federal government established a minimum level, some states think they can save money by doing it themselves, the federal government agrees and gives them a block grant, but only if they agree to not decrease the level of care. Beyond setting the rules the feds have no involvement whatsoever in the state programs.

So, false *and* taken out of context. Horay, hot air!


Wow. So... it's a voucher system that actually addresses the big gaping problem we have with a voucher system? THAT'S SCANDALOUS!

The problem with Republican domestic policies isn't just that they're horrible, but that there's no follow-through. There's an idea, but they assume the idea itself will make it work and no structure is needed to get it to happen the way they want.
 
2012-09-09 09:26:13 AM

xiaodown: Going out on a limb to say either this is false or taken out of context.

(reads article)

Yep. These are the states that are governed by the rule that says that they can only do this if the quality of care is equal to or better than the care that they get on traditional medicaid. The federal government established a minimum level, some states think they can save money by doing it themselves, the federal government agrees and gives them a block grant, but only if they agree to not decrease the level of care. Beyond setting the rules the feds have no involvement whatsoever in the state programs.

So, false *and* taken out of context. Horay, hot air!


You know, I hate clicking on these conservative links. And yet again, another mischaracterization of facts. I am just tired of the lies. It is so shady. Conservatives make a big deal about Muslim terrorists saying, "They can lie. It's in their religion. They can lie for religious purposes." Yet, Christians don't recognize the lies that are being told and when they do, they say it's to SAVE AMERICA. It is harder and harder to have ANY respect for republicans. If they repeat this lie on the morning shows this morning, I hope the moderators call them out on it.
 
2012-09-09 09:30:10 AM

xiaodown: Going out on a limb to say either this is false or taken out of context.

(reads article)

Yep. These are the states that are governed by the rule that says that they can only do this if the quality of care is equal to or better than the care that they get on traditional medicaid. The federal government established a minimum level, some states think they can save money by doing it themselves, the federal government agrees and gives them a block grant, but only if they agree to not decrease the level of care. Beyond setting the rules the feds have no involvement whatsoever in the state programs.

So, false *and* taken out of context. Horay, hot air!


Yeah, we were talking about this yesterday. It's basically just taking the dual-qualifiers, who are poor enough to qualify for Medicaid but old/infirm enough for Medicare (and who need both to get all of their care covered, because Medicaid covers not much), and saying "well fark, if these people qualify for Medicaid, let's just give them Medicaid, and if that isn't enough coverage then we'll expand it until it is". And then the Federal government is funding that expansion. Gets those people out of the Medicare system, the patients themselves don't have to deal with juggling insurance claim billing between the two systems, and there's no care actually lost since you're expanding Medicaid for that exact reason.

Also, it's adorable that they're making it sound like ERMAGERD ZEROBONGO SHOVES VOUCHERS ON US!@# when in fact the 18 states in the pilot program all applied for it themselves, and were accepted by the government.

/i know, i know, something about facts and the narrative
//using masshealth
///it's better than a lot of plans
 
2012-09-09 09:32:43 AM

RobertBruce: Benevolent Misanthrope: Medicare != Medicaid you dipshiats.

So it screws the single moms instead. Just like the democrats always do.


I will assume that remark was an attempt at sarcasm. Otherwise, we would have to bring the fire with links regarding Republicans trying to reduce WIC, Medicaid, HeadStart and all other programs that are made to help single mothers.
 
2012-09-09 09:47:07 AM

Wyalt Derp: So Obama wants to end Medicare as we know it?


Nope. That would be Mr. Ryan.
 
2012-09-09 09:49:07 AM

MithrandirBooga: propasaurus: Look, it's not that the admins greenlight conservative sites and threads. It's that they greenlight obvious non-factual, lying, troll bait threads that are debunked by comment two.

They don't have much of a choice. Lying is the only thing Republicans do anymore. See Romney's entire campaign for example.


On the positive side of things it allows factual untruths to be debunked quite effectively in the comments section for the article and exposes itto quite a large audience. Notice except for the occasional troll and "FARK IndependentTM", none of FARK's rational critical thinking conservatives are touching it. I am also pretty sure that if a person reads an article on the Politics tab they will at the least lurk the discussion and see the truth. So in ways these articles work against the GOP when it comes to true centrist-undecided voters, whoever those are. 

I really think the Democratic convention was so strong that the GOP is panicking and now are getting desperate. Just a week ago it was all about the economy and they didn't want to talk social issues. After Bill Clinton and President Obama (especially Clinton) laid out he fundamental differences in economic policy making an extremely strong case, rather than address the economic differences they are going with abortion, gay marriage, and booing God.
 
2012-09-09 09:59:33 AM

batcookie: Bathia_Mapes: Benevolent Misanthrope: Medicare != Medicaid you dipshiats.


The plan actually affects dual eligibles... in the health insurance industry, we call them medi/medis (Medicare/Medicaid) and more than likely, they're shunned by most health insurers because of a host of problems. With the new states pilot programs, health insurers are seeing them as a guaranteed revenue stream (paid by the states and by the fed govt.)...

... if you need proof, look at WellPoint's recent acquisition of CareMore (a leader in Medicare health delivery) in 2011 and this year's acquisition of Amerigroup (a leader in Medicaid health delivery.) They're now placed to cater to these dual-eligibles, and it wouldn't surprise me if more health insurers began doing the same.

/Fee-for-service is both unsustainable and dying
 
2012-09-09 10:02:56 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Medicare != Medicaid you dipshiats.


However, Medicare == Medicare.

from CMS.gov MS will test two models for States to better align the financing of these two programs and integrate primary, acute, behavioral health and long term services and supports for their Medicare-Medicaid enrollees.
 
2012-09-09 10:12:31 AM

Bloody William: xiaodown: Going out on a limb to say either this is false or taken out of context.

(reads article)

Yep. These are the states that are governed by the rule that says that they can only do this if the quality of care is equal to or better than the care that they get on traditional medicaid. The federal government established a minimum level, some states think they can save money by doing it themselves, the federal government agrees and gives them a block grant, but only if they agree to not decrease the level of care. Beyond setting the rules the feds have no involvement whatsoever in the state programs.

So, false *and* taken out of context. Horay, hot air!

Wow. So... it's a voucher system that actually addresses the big gaping problem we have with a voucher system? THAT'S SCANDALOUS!

The problem with Republican domestic policies isn't just that they're horrible, but that there's no follow-through. There's an idea, but they assume the idea itself will make it work and no structure is needed to get it to happen the way they want.


The reason why they are horrible is because the policies are intended to be. These policies address programs they hate and want to dismantle, but are way too popular and would be political suicide to just dismantle it outright.

Unfortunately for them, it looks like the master troll President Obama will take the good part of the bad policy and mold it into something that strengthens the program; giving them what the GOP "says" they want but not "what" they really want. It has created a logical fallacy for Republicans and has them arguing against state's rights and with lies. Hopefully this will be used against them effectively in the debates .
 
2012-09-09 10:49:38 AM

thenewmissus: RobertBruce: Benevolent Misanthrope: Medicare != Medicaid you dipshiats.

So it screws the single moms instead. Just like the democrats always do.

I will assume that remark was an attempt at sarcasm. Otherwise, we would have to bring the fire with links regarding Republicans trying to reduce WIC, Medicaid, HeadStart and all other programs that are made to help single mothers.


quick! To the tu quoque cannons!

That's not how debate works
 
2012-09-09 10:50:43 AM

propasaurus: Look, it's not that the admins greenlight conservative sites and threads. It's that they greenlight obvious non-factual, lying, troll bait threads that are debunked by comment two.


TBH I don't mind that the mods frequently post the latest GOP talking points for everyone to tear down, its like a counter talking points distribution system. I've lost count of the number of times people I know IRL have brought up the latest talking point that they've seen in an ad (wondering if it is true) and I've been able to promptly tell them how and why the talking point is false or misleading. Fortunately they're not RWNJs and are swayed by the facts.
 
2012-09-09 11:20:13 AM
TFA: If Obama supporters don't like the term "vouchers" or want to gripe about its accuracy, look first to the beam in thine own eye.

If you use the word voucher in a way I don't like, then I can use it any way I want! Your mom's a big fat voucher!
 
2012-09-09 11:21:24 AM
TFA: If Obama supporters don't like the term "vouchers" or want to gripe about its accuracy, look first to the beam in thine own eye.

If you use the word voucher in a way I don't like, then I can use it any way I want to describe anything I want! Deal with it! Your mom's a big fat voucher!
 
2012-09-09 11:36:45 AM
The article describes a state-by-state run medicare type of plan, not a voucher plan.

Lets go check to see how the lying right is doing in the polls!
 
2012-09-09 11:37:01 AM

digistil: UCFRoadWarrior: Few are willing to admit that Obama and Romney really have little political differences...both are very much big government liberals.

The whole "Big government liberals" is about as true as claiming the media and facts have a liberal bias. Historically, government is significantly smaller under a Democratic leader, than a Republican one.


Dudes a freeper. And not one of our plants. Why are you bothering?
 
2012-09-09 11:59:45 AM

SecretAgentWoman: Benevolent Misanthrope: Medicare != Medicaid you dipshiats.


FAIL tag, otoh, works for Subby's headline and pretty much everything Hot Air has ever published.

So there's that.

"GOP 2012: Cos if we told the truth nobody would ever vote for us again."
 
2012-09-09 12:15:39 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: from CMS.gov MS will test two models for States to better align the financing of these two programs and integrate primary, acute, behavioral health and long term services and supports for their Medicare-Medicaid enrollees.


Except this plan is NOTHING like Ryan's voucher plan, so the article is still a load of hogwash.

All this does is combine Medicaid and Medicare Advantage (aka Medicare C) benefits into a single plan, rather than require a dual eligible person to have two separate plans covering different portions of their care. Under this plan, the insurers must meet all requirements both of Medicaid and Medicare C.

Ryan's plan is clearly not the same as Medicare C, unless his plan involves traveling back to 1997 to implement it. People have had the ability to purchase Medicare benefits from private corporations for fifteen years.
 
2012-09-09 01:28:01 PM
"Governor Romney would turn Medicare from a guarantee into una libreta de cupones-a book of coupons." -- Cristina Saralegui (aka "the Hispanic Oprah"), DNC speech.
 
2012-09-09 01:34:30 PM
I think I shall begin mind-whacking my local gang of goofs with Fark.
 
2012-09-09 01:40:28 PM
Wow, it really is true that Republicans are simply banking on enough voters being completely asleep at the wheel.
 
2012-09-09 01:46:43 PM
As usual:

They are for it before they are against it.... The party of NO and flip-floppers!
 
2012-09-09 01:59:12 PM

skullkrusher: thenewmissus: RobertBruce: Benevolent Misanthrope: Medicare != Medicaid you dipshiats.

So it screws the single moms instead. Just like the democrats always do.

I will assume that remark was an attempt at sarcasm. Otherwise, we would have to bring the fire with links regarding Republicans trying to reduce WIC, Medicaid, HeadStart and all other programs that are made to help single mothers.

quick! To the tu quoque cannons!

That's not how debate works


Ok. I just got back from church so I am responding to your sarcasm in the following way: BLESS YOUR HEART.
 
2012-09-09 02:07:18 PM

xiaodown: Going out on a limb to say either this is false or taken out of context.

(reads article)

Yep. These are the states that are governed by the rule that says that they can only do this if the quality of care is equal to or better than the care that they get on traditional medicaid. The federal government established a minimum level, some states think they can save money by doing it themselves, the federal government agrees and gives them a block grant, but only if they agree to not decrease the level of care. Beyond setting the rules the feds have no involvement whatsoever in the state programs.

So, false *and* taken out of context. Horay, hot air!


As said (by me) in a previous article: For some people, it's much more important to "win" than to be correct.
 
2012-09-09 02:45:27 PM

UCFRoadWarrior: Few are willing to admit that Obama and Romney really have little political differences...both are very much big government liberals.


It's amazing how the Republicans keep nominating big government liberals.
 
2012-09-09 03:29:59 PM

Bloody William: Wow. So... it's a voucher system that actually addresses the big gaping problem we have with a voucher system?


This isn't even a voucher system at all, the Medicare component is just plain old Medicare C.

The difference between Medicare C and a voucher system is the same as the difference between a defined benefits and defined contribution pension. Current Medicare (incl. C) covers a particular set of defined services. A voucher plan gives you a defined amount of money to purchase a plan with - how much or how little services that plan covers would vary by the cost of insurance.

The Ryan plan isn't "give people a private option" - there's already a private option, and has been for 15 years. The Ryan plan is basically a way to shift the burden of medical inflation from the government to the citizens. If medical inflation outpaces normal inflation, as it has been for a very long time, then either the insurance premiums will rise faster than the vouchers increase, or the insurance benefits will be reduced to keep the premiums down.
 
2012-09-09 03:35:27 PM

xiaodown: Going out on a limb to say either this is false or taken out of context.

(reads article)

Yep. These are the states that are governed by the rule that says that they can only do this if the quality of care is equal to or better than the care that they get on traditional medicaid. The federal government established a minimum level, some states think they can save money by doing it themselves, the federal government agrees and gives them a block grant, but only if they agree to not decrease the level of care. Beyond setting the rules the feds have no involvement whatsoever in the state programs.

So, false *and* taken out of context. Horay, hot air!


And we're done. More hot air from, well, Hot Air. But, given that Republicans can't actually stand on facts for this election, expect lies & disinformation like this to flood every form of media for the next two months.
 
2012-09-09 04:35:55 PM
FTA: "Ryan also allows all seniors to choose, and didn't force the poorest seniors to take the voucher option. "

I'm betting this isn't true..
Yep, Ryan's original plan didn't offer a choice, he and Wyden later released a plan with a choice.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1211/70459.html
 
2012-09-09 07:26:47 PM

theteacher: A republican news media us outraged--outraged, I say--that Obama is doing exactly what the republicans want!

Damn Obama!


It's as though they think of Obama as being hidden away, in a box, perhaps, where they can't actually see whether he's being a liberal or being a conservative, so until they open the box, they have to consider the possibility that he's being both . . . and they're outraged, regardless of whether he's being a liberal or being a conservative.
 
2012-09-09 08:09:10 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: Hot Air (even if it is kinda centrist)


Plonk.
 
2012-09-09 10:12:17 PM

thenewmissus: skullkrusher: thenewmissus: RobertBruce: Benevolent Misanthrope: Medicare != Medicaid you dipshiats.

So it screws the single moms instead. Just like the democrats always do.

I will assume that remark was an attempt at sarcasm. Otherwise, we would have to bring the fire with links regarding Republicans trying to reduce WIC, Medicaid, HeadStart and all other programs that are made to help single mothers.

quick! To the tu quoque cannons!

That's not how debate works

Ok. I just got back from church so I am responding to your sarcasm in the following way: BLESS YOUR HEART.


sorry, dear, your southern stupidisms don't work on me.
 
2012-09-09 11:41:03 PM

skullkrusher: thenewmissus: skullkrusher: thenewmissus: RobertBruce: Benevolent Misanthrope: Medicare != Medicaid you dipshiats.

So it screws the single moms instead. Just like the democrats always do.

I will assume that remark was an attempt at sarcasm. Otherwise, we would have to bring the fire with links regarding Republicans trying to reduce WIC, Medicaid, HeadStart and all other programs that are made to help single mothers.

quick! To the tu quoque cannons!

That's not how debate works

Ok. I just got back from church so I am responding to your sarcasm in the following way: BLESS YOUR HEART.

sorry, dear, your southern stupidisms don't work on me.


Which is why you need it even more, dear.
 
2012-09-10 12:40:52 AM

xiaodown: Going out on a limb to say either this is false or taken out of context.

(reads article)

Yep. These are the states that are governed by the rule that says that they can only do this if the quality of care is equal to or better than the care that they get on traditional medicaid. The federal government established a minimum level, some states think they can save money by doing it themselves, the federal government agrees and gives them a block grant, but only if they agree to not decrease the level of care. Beyond setting the rules the feds have no involvement whatsoever in the state programs.

So, false *and* taken out of context. Horay, hot air!


I call bullshiat on you. You read the article before you went out on the limb. You're a liar, so anything you say after the first lie has no credibility.

So, there.
 
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