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(Yahoo)   Art Modell's son summarily resolves a moral quandary for Cleveland Browns fans by asking the team NOT to do a tribute to Art at their game tomorrow   (sports.yahoo.com) divider line 66
    More: Interesting, Art Modell, Browns, Cleveland, moment of silence, Deutsche Bank Championship, Mike Holmgren, Baltimore Ravens, sons  
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1085 clicks; posted to Sports » on 08 Sep 2012 at 8:44 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-08 05:08:27 PM
Oh thank god. The last thing we needed was to give ESPN more reason to disparage our entire city for years to come.
 
2012-09-08 05:15:13 PM
Y'know, just because they asked DOESN'T mean Cleveland has to listen. >.>
 
2012-09-08 05:18:59 PM

Captain Steroid: Y'know, just because they asked DOESN'T mean Cleveland has to listen. >.>


It's already been confirmed that it's canceled.
 
2012-09-08 05:25:24 PM

CavalierEternal: Captain Steroid: Y'know, just because they asked DOESN'T mean Cleveland has to listen. >.>

It's already been confirmed that it's canceled.


Right... "cancelled". I gotcha'. ^_-
 
2012-09-08 09:00:31 PM
It's interesting how many things leave Cleveland and then immediately become better.
 
2012-09-08 09:03:11 PM
This was really the best move for everyone all around.
 
2012-09-08 09:10:43 PM
Classy move on the son's part to give the team a way out.
 
2012-09-08 09:15:57 PM
I still chuckle at the whole "pretend the new Browns have the old Browns history" thing. Sorry, but the roster evolution of the old Browns leads right up to the current Ravens. End of story.

/great at parties
 
2012-09-08 09:20:27 PM

Decillion: I still chuckle at the whole "pretend the new Browns have the old Browns history" thing. Sorry, but the roster evolution of the old Browns leads right up to the current Ravens. End of story.

/great at parties


The Browns effectively released all players and personnel in 1995, when they were subsequently acquired by the Ravens organization.

Arguing with the official records of the National Football League doesn't make you look edgy, it just makes you look like an ass.
 
2012-09-08 09:32:19 PM

CavalierEternal: Decillion: I still chuckle at the whole "pretend the new Browns have the old Browns history" thing. Sorry, but the roster evolution of the old Browns leads right up to the current Ravens. End of story.

/great at parties

The Browns effectively released all players and personnel in 1995, when they were subsequently acquired by the Ravens organization.

Arguing with the official records of the National Football League doesn't make you look edgy, it just makes you look like an ass.


Slow down Johnny Brown. We both know that was a paper smoke screen to make the city feel less horrible about the whole thing.

If you get fired Monday, and in two weeks they name the new guy Johnny Brown and say he did all your previous work and was only on vacation for those two weeks, that still ain't you.
 
2012-09-08 09:34:31 PM

Decillion: CavalierEternal: Decillion: I still chuckle at the whole "pretend the new Browns have the old Browns history" thing. Sorry, but the roster evolution of the old Browns leads right up to the current Ravens. End of story.

/great at parties

The Browns effectively released all players and personnel in 1995, when they were subsequently acquired by the Ravens organization.

Arguing with the official records of the National Football League doesn't make you look edgy, it just makes you look like an ass.

Slow down Johnny Brown. We both know that was a paper smoke screen to make the city feel less horrible about the whole thing.

If you get fired Monday, and in two weeks they name the new guy Johnny Brown and say he did all your previous work and was only on vacation for those two weeks, that still ain't you.


You clearly lack a fundamental misunderstanding of the difference between a team and a franchise.
 
2012-09-08 09:45:26 PM
I'm glad this isn't happening. It's like asking the Baltimore fans to have a moment of silence for Robert Irsay. Not gonna happen and it would be ugly. I still expect to see some unflattering Modell posters/chants, as there should be.

/Thought the Indians knocking out the Orioles in the 1997 ALCS was a bit of payback.
 
2012-09-08 09:51:15 PM

CavalierEternal:
You clearly lack a fundamental misunderstanding of the difference between a team and a franchise.


Nah, just word differences. If you really thought about it you couldn't explain it other than, "the NFL said this is true now". Words. Wikipedia entries.

Just funny how they swept it away. 'Let us not talk about those blank dark years on the record books'. Very 1984 stuff and it's for sports. Ha.
 
2012-09-08 09:51:37 PM
 
2012-09-08 10:09:23 PM
Pittsburgh used to hate the Browns something fierce because Cleavland is basically PGH Jr. Same idea, lake instead of rivers. But the Ravens have to live in Baltimore. I think the rivalry died that day. The new Browns? not quite the same.
 
2012-09-08 10:10:13 PM

INeedAName: It's interesting how many things leave Cleveland and then immediately become better.


images1.wikia.nocookie.net

Agrees.

/linkage hotter than a Bobby Hull slap shot.
 
2012-09-08 10:16:56 PM

INeedAName: It's interesting how many things leave Cleveland and then immediately become better.


Ironically, Art Modell was not one of them. His team may have been, but by the time they won the SB, they were Bisciotti's team, not his.
 
2012-09-08 10:17:15 PM

doglover: Pittsburgh used to hate the Browns something fierce because Cleavland is basically PGH Jr. Same idea, lake instead of rivers. But the Ravens have to live in Baltimore. I think the rivalry died that day. The new Browns? not quite the same.


Relative to this point.

\fifteen years later this still cracks me up
 
2012-09-08 10:19:45 PM

IlGreven: Ironically, Art Modell was not one of them. His team may have been, but by the time they won the SB, they were Bisciotti's team, not his


That's odd. I distinctly remember Modell being handed the trophy and yelling "Choke on it you son of a biatch!"
 
2012-09-08 10:26:00 PM

Anderson's Pooper: IlGreven: Ironically, Art Modell was not one of them. His team may have been, but by the time they won the SB, they were Bisciotti's team, not his

That's odd. I distinctly remember Modell being handed the trophy and yelling "Choke on it you son of a biatch!"


He was pretty much only a figurehead then. He had already sold half the club to Bisciotti, who had an option to buy the rest at any time.
 
2012-09-08 10:26:15 PM

CavalierEternal: Oh thank god. The last thing we needed was to give ESPN more reason to disparage our entire city for years to come.


I'm curious to see what kinds of signs the fans hold up (and whether the cameras will look for them). As a Browns fan...I have absolutely no love for Modell. But I also don't want to piss on his grave on live tv.

My hope is that this is basically a nonevent and we focus entirely on the game.
 
2012-09-08 10:35:56 PM

FriarReb98: doglover: Pittsburgh used to hate the Browns something fierce because Cleavland is basically PGH Jr. Same idea, lake instead of rivers. But the Ravens have to live in Baltimore. I think the rivalry died that day. The new Browns? not quite the same.

Relative to this point.

\fifteen years later this still cracks me up


Holy shiat. That was a trip on the wayback machine.
 
2012-09-08 10:39:03 PM

Decillion: I still chuckle at the whole "pretend the new Browns have the old Browns history" thing. Sorry, but the roster evolution of the old Browns leads right up to the current Ravens. End of story.

/great at parties


Huh? How many players do you think The Ravens have that played for the original Browns? By your logic, the Dodgers are the REAL Red Sox
 
2012-09-08 10:43:58 PM

IlGreven: He was pretty much only a figurehead then. He had already sold half the club to Bisciotti, who had an option to buy the rest at any time.


Fair enough but nobody outside Baltimore had any clue who Bisciotti was. It was Art's team.
 
2012-09-08 10:45:43 PM
I for one am disappointed. I was hoping for this generation's nickle beer night riot, complete with clouds of tear gas, multiple tazings and having to call in the national guard. Those Modell's certainly know how to ruin everyone's fun times.
 
2012-09-08 10:55:26 PM
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
 
2012-09-08 10:55:57 PM

JonPace: Decillion: I still chuckle at the whole "pretend the new Browns have the old Browns history" thing. Sorry, but the roster evolution of the old Browns leads right up to the current Ravens. End of story.

/great at parties

Huh? How many players do you think The Ravens have that played for the original Browns? By your logic, the Dodgers are the REAL Red Sox


Heh, the key word is evolution. Meaning all the transactions from, say, the 1952 Sox lead to the 2012 Sox. This SS retires leading to the next SS who gets released leading to the new rookie SS who becomes a star, etc. The organic flow of the rosters is really what makes the team history mean anything because like Seinfeld said, you really just cheer for laundry.
 
2012-09-08 10:57:40 PM

JonPace: Decillion: I still chuckle at the whole "pretend the new Browns have the old Browns history" thing. Sorry, but the roster evolution of the old Browns leads right up to the current Ravens. End of story.

/great at parties

Huh? How many players do you think The Ravens have that played for the original Browns? By your logic, the Dodgers are the REAL Red Sox


Football players are like bullets almost in how fast you burn through them. Even the greatest players have relatively short careers compared to a job where you don't get your face slammed into the mud a hundred times a night. The average is 3.5 years or 9 years depending on how do the statistics (everyone vs the roster only)

The real question is how many of the Ravens' coaches and staff were trained up in the original Browns' culture?

It's like when Rome moved to Byzantium, they kept calling themselves Rome and spoke Latin and basically kept being Romans all the way to the end. Sure, you can retroactively call them the Byzantines for history book purposes and their location influenced their culture, but their culture was that of Rome in a straight line father to son mother to daughter.

For the Ravens, if their coaches were trained up in the old Browns, they're more Browns than the new Browns, maybe. If that makes sense.

But really, it's all just football. Ice hockey's what I like.
 
2012-09-08 11:00:30 PM

SamFlagg: This was really the best move for everyone all around.


I agree , class move my Modell's son.
 
2012-09-08 11:04:25 PM

doglover:
It's like when Rome moved to Byzantium, they kept calling themselves Rome and spoke Latin and basically kept being Romans all the way to the end. Sure, you can retroactively call them the Byzantines for history book purposes and their location influenced their culture, but their culture was that of Rome in a straight line father to son mother to daughter.


Except that the Byzantine Empire mostly spoke Greek, as did all of its emperors after Justinian I.
 
2012-09-08 11:09:40 PM

bVork: doglover:
It's like when Rome moved to Byzantium, they kept calling themselves Rome and spoke Latin and basically kept being Romans all the way to the end. Sure, you can retroactively call them the Byzantines for history book purposes and their location influenced their culture, but their culture was that of Rome in a straight line father to son mother to daughter.

Except that the Byzantine Empire mostly spoke Greek, as did all of its emperors after Justinian I.


Greek, Latin, whatever. They're both stuffy old Mediterranean languages. It's only that first new generation that matters.

Since the Ravens were the Browns there exists the potential that, even after 15 years, they're still like the old Browns with the team culture and whatnot. It's not the players, but the whole team's staff and behavior you have to look at.
 
2012-09-08 11:10:13 PM

IlGreven: He was pretty much only a figurehead then. He had already sold half the club to Bisciotti, who had an option to buy the rest at any time.


Modell held a 51% interest at that point, and Bisciotti's option to purchase the rest didn't kick in until 2004.

doglover: The real question is how many of the Ravens' coaches and staff were trained up in the original Browns' culture?


Not many. The only one I can think of off the top of my head would be Ozzie Newsome (best damn GM in the league), although I'm sure that I'm missing a couple minor coaches or front office guys.

By the time they won that Super Bowl in 2000, the Ravens had pretty much rid themselves of any Browns legacy beyond Modell himself. Once Modell sold off the remainder of his shares in '04, it was down to Newsome & Matt Stover (and now just Newsome).
 
2012-09-08 11:30:21 PM
why is it classy to have the town your father figuratively raped not have to commemorate it later? I am not a Browns fan but they were completely screwed by Modell and only their own protests got them the team back at all. Second worst town rape by a league in history.

It'll go back to being the worst as soon as Seattle gets a Sonics back.

I'd happily piss on David Stern's or Clay Bennet's grave, if they ever want us to hold a "moment of silence" for them some day I'm pretty sure how it'll go.

Will be interesting to see if they hold a moment of silence for Modell anywhere but Cleveland if they boo too. I know I would. He should be reviled anywhere outside of Baltimore.
 
2012-09-08 11:46:53 PM

CavalierEternal: Decillion: I still chuckle at the whole "pretend the new Browns have the old Browns history" thing. Sorry, but the roster evolution of the old Browns leads right up to the current Ravens. End of story.

/great at parties

The Browns effectively released all players and personnel in 1995, when they were subsequently acquired by the Ravens organization.

Arguing with the official records of the National Football League doesn't make you look edgy, it just makes you look like an ass.


Is that the same way that Penn State hadn't won a game from 1998 to 2011?
 
2012-09-08 11:53:19 PM

Generation_D: why is it classy to have the town your father figuratively raped not have to commemorate it later?


It was a losing scenario for every side involved. The Modells look bad & someone has to at least attempt to explain why to the masses who don't know the back story, Cleveland & the fans look bad for booing a dead guy, and the league looks bad for forcing the predicament on the city & family. This allows for an out which is equally acceptable to all parties.

I suppose you could call it "practical" instead of classy, depending on your opinions.
 
2012-09-09 12:18:29 AM
Crap. I actually had a reason to look forward to a Browns game.
 
2012-09-09 12:44:27 AM
Art Modell was living proof that wealth does not bestow class. I'm not a Browns fan, but I can definitely empathize with Cleveland.
 
2012-09-09 01:10:39 AM
Sounds like that the Browns fans had something else in mind other than a celebration during that alloted time.

If the Modell family wants to make good by Cleveland, it will take a significant gesture on their part. This gesture would require everyone (including the Modell family for Art Modell's role) to be brought to the stadium, perp-walked on the field, and receive whatever punishment that Cleveland Browns fans wish to exact on the group.

Then repeat at every Ravens game until the team is moved back to its rightful place in Ohio as the Cleveland Browns.
 
2012-09-09 01:16:32 AM

DJLobo: I'm glad this isn't happening. It's like asking the Baltimore fans to have a moment of silence for Robert Irsay. Not gonna happen and it would be ugly. I still expect to see some unflattering Modell posters/chants, as there should be.


If there was a wish to appeal to the audience, it would be a few minutes of celebration and naming/shaming the people involved in the deal; their names, photos, and roles would appear on the large screens.
 
2012-09-09 01:25:25 AM

sethstorm: Then repeat at every Ravens game until the team is moved back to its rightful place in Ohio as the Cleveland Browns.


Hey, there's no need to punish the current roster for what happened when most of them were still in grade school.
 
2012-09-09 01:40:04 AM
This sucks. I was really looking forward to this mess.
 
2012-09-09 01:42:38 AM

Harv72b: sethstorm: Then repeat at every Ravens game until the team is moved back to its rightful place in Ohio as the Cleveland Browns.

Hey, there's no need to punish the current roster for what happened when most of them were still in grade school.


The current roster isn't going to receive the penalty - it would be squarely placed on the people that performed the move.
 
2012-09-09 01:51:03 AM

sethstorm: Harv72b: sethstorm: Then repeat at every Ravens game until the team is moved back to its rightful place in Ohio as the Cleveland Browns.

Hey, there's no need to punish the current roster for what happened when most of them were still in grade school.

The current roster isn't going to receive the penalty - it would be squarely placed on the people that performed the move.


Al Lerner is dead already, unfortunately. He helped broker the deal between Modell and Baltimore, and then went on to ironically be the majority owner in the new Browns.
 
2012-09-09 02:01:29 AM
What kind of tribute to Art Modell was Cleveland planning?

Was the whole city going to whine about losing money, then pack up and move to Baltimore under another name?
 
2012-09-09 02:10:20 AM

sethstorm: The current roster isn't going to receive the penalty - it would be squarely placed on the people that performed the move.


See, that was a little attempted joke about moving the team back to Cleveland and oh, never mind. You've suffered enough. :p

FWIW, I agree that the move was a shiatty thing to do to the city, and as Baltimorons (we can call ourselves that; you may not) we know all too well how it feels to lose a team with a strong local history. That said, I think it's also a shiatty thing to boo a man during a moment of silence in his memory, particularly when he did not commit any actual crimes.
 
2012-09-09 02:42:32 AM

Harv72b: FWIW, I agree that the move was a shiatty thing to do to the city, and as Baltimorons (we can call ourselves that; you may not) we know all too well how it feels to lose a team with a strong local history. That said, I think it's also a shiatty thing to boo a man during a moment of silence in his memory, particularly when he did not commit any actual crimes.


I'm only suggesting that Cleveland exacts justice or encounters catharsis of some sort.
 
2012-09-09 03:28:23 AM

Generation_D: why is it classy to have the town your father figuratively raped not have to commemorate it later? I am not a Browns fan but they were completely screwed by Modell and only their own protests got them the team back at all. Second worst town rape by a league in history.

It'll go back to being the worst as soon as Seattle gets a Sonics back.

I'd happily piss on David Stern's or Clay Bennet's grave, if they ever want us to hold a "moment of silence" for them some day I'm pretty sure how it'll go.

Will be interesting to see if they hold a moment of silence for Modell anywhere but Cleveland if they boo too. I know I would. He should be reviled anywhere outside of Baltimore.


For the first three years of the Thunder existence I felt for Sonic fans, damn near felt guilty for enjoying the Thunder as much as I did. This last playoff run however all sympathy and goodwill dried up, every time I turned around some Seattle puke in a Shawn Kemp jersey was trying to turn an incredible run, a clinic of professional basketball, what every NBA fan not in Dade county could root for, into a passive aggressive screed against Clay Bennett and David Stern. Hey Numnuts couldn't pass arena funding because you'd just renovated one of your other major league teams facilities? Welp, maybe that means you're not a 3 sport city, for Buddhas sake I just saw an article about how some hipster trash wrote a gotdamn childrens book about the shiat.
 
2012-09-09 04:22:32 AM

Harv72b: That said, I think it's also a shiatty thing to boo a man during a moment of silence in his memory, particularly when he did not commit any actual crimes.


Nope, can't agree with that sentiment (in the general, as well as the specific). If you are a flaming coont-rag in life - even if you were never charged with a crime - you don't get it all wiped clean just for dying. We, as a culture, have effectively made being a shiat the highest good. All you have to do is avoid the pokey (and sometimes you can even go to prison), and as soon as you die, we all act as if you were Jesus Christ, Buddha, and Gandhi combined. We totally rape substance, just for meaningless style. Art Modell was a complete failure of a human being in life - in death, he is a complete failure of a human being, who happens to also be dead. "Showing respect" to him simply because he is dead is shiatting upon every person who tries to make the world a little less of a hellhole
 
2012-09-09 04:25:08 AM

Nerdhurter: Hey Numnuts couldn't pass arena funding because you'd just renovated one of your other major league teams facilities? Welp, maybe that means you're not a 3 sport city, for Buddhas sake I just saw an article about how some hipster trash wrote a gotdamn childrens book about the shiat.


One? Try two. They got hit with three consecutive build-us-a-palace-or-we-relocate ransom notes. The Mariners were going to go to Tampa and the Seahawks to Los Angeles. By the time Bennett came around, he knew full well the Seattle voters were already pissed off as all hell and were not about to drain the municipal budget a third time. He made a demand he knew they'd say no to and used it as a fig leaf to steal the team.
 
2012-09-09 04:43:05 AM

Harv72b: and as Baltimorons (we can call ourselves that; you may not)


No problem, I think of you as Retread Brownholes anyway.
 
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