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(LA Times)   Because of increased regulations, medical marijuana growers and sellers are heading back into the shadows   (latimes.com) divider line 37
    More: Obvious, Board of Equalization, California University of Pennsylvania, safe-deposit boxes, medical marijuana, paper bags  
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2407 clicks; posted to Business » on 08 Sep 2012 at 1:01 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-08 02:03:38 PM  
4 votes:

AcneVulgaris: proteus_b: this is why i've never understood the D-tards who insist that marijuana should be "taxed and regulated". why should it be taxed? why should it be regulated? the default answer is that it should not be, until you can show a good reason tor such coercion...

Because whoever is running the government, they're going to look a lot more favorably on anything that brings them money.

We don't pay taxes because that's the law. We pay taxes because the government will take our stuff and lock us in a cage with butt rapists if we don't pay.


I pay taxes because it's part of the social contract. I like having things like well-maintained roads, bridges, clean water, police, and all the other things that our tax dollars pay for. I have no problem paying taxes because I can walk outside and immediately see a dozen things those dollars contributed toward.

In order to have a functioning society, the government is going to have to spend money. That money, for the most part, comes from taxes. So again, taxes don't bother me -- it's all just part of living in modern society with all the modern amenities.
2012-09-08 12:35:42 PM  
4 votes:
Want to f*ck up something good?
Just add government.
2012-09-08 01:49:54 PM  
3 votes:
this is why i've never understood the D-tards who insist that marijuana should be "taxed and regulated". why should it be taxed? why should it be regulated? the default answer is that it should not be, until you can show a good reason tor such coercion...
2012-09-08 11:40:57 PM  
2 votes:

lucasorvis: Marijuana will never be universally legal in the United States. I'll take ANYONE'S bets. There's just too much money in keeping it illegal. And honestly, I l blame Murphy's Law. Nothing that cool can ever happen in the real world.


sadly i think you're right. there are (aren't there always?) wealthy powerful families already established and making money off law enforcement, lawyers & prisons. wealth = greed, so they will never have enough. so they would never back off.

hey - we're living in a country where cigarettes are $10/pack in some areas due to tax, and a citizen cannot smoke in a bar where adults consume liquid poison. no way in hell those in power are going to nix cigarettes and say okay to mayrjane.

i don't understand why 'we the people' don't rip this shiat up. why the fark are we allowing prostitution to remain illegal? WTF? cops are paid to be cock blockers! THIS IS INSANE!

this is why i get pissed off. millions of americans have firearms & ammo in the closet but they are all too pussy to get them out and use them. nothing is going to change with votes. nothing is going to change via the $$$ legal lawyer way. the scumbags in WashDC know and love ultra violence. they have used it to their wealthy powerful advantage for years. the sooner we the people use it on them the sooner we won't have to cowtow to the man.
2012-09-08 11:04:35 PM  
2 votes:
Marijuana will never be universally legal in the United States. I'll take ANYONE'S bets. There's just too much money in keeping it illegal. And honestly, I l blame Murphy's Law. Nothing that cool can ever happen in the real world.
2012-09-08 09:42:18 PM  
2 votes:
I warned everyone of the coming backlash. Soon they'll be rounding up the cardholders. The entrenched government bureaucracies ( federal, state and local law enforcement, lawyers, prisons, etc ) cannot exist without pot remaining illegal. It will never go away unless a bigger 'cause' emerges. These agencies began in the 1930s when federal agents no longer had alcohol as a targeted revenue source. Do you think they want another repeal of a law that sustains their very livelihoods?

/ you all come down on welfare foodstampers, yet ignore the murderously criminal traitors within
2012-09-08 03:28:28 PM  
2 votes:
I just got back from a nice, relaxing wake and bake, so I'm getting a kick. All I know, is that I woke up pissed off at the world and my face hurts from grinding my teeth so much lately. After a bowl, I am feeling alright with the world and am about to set on a bike ride, because well...fark it. I'm worrying about nothing, and everything is fine...but for some reason lately, I have been getting twisted over bullshiat. I could take my Lexapro, that is expensive and makes me feel like I don't care...but not in a good way. On that shiat, I don't want to eat, fark, work, or do anything, I just want to sit and be mild-mannered about everything. It sucks. Weed does the trick in a few minutes, it lets my mind relax and then I remember what it is about my life that I enjoy.

I'm a criminal, though...so there's that. Where the fark is my gum?
2012-09-08 02:31:26 PM  
2 votes:
You know what the ironic thing is? Cartels expect some shipment to be busted.Hell they have been known to setup some shipments to be busted.

See with asset forfeiture, they know that cops are benefiting from their operations. They consider The War On Drugs to be another bribe to be paid, but in Foosball tables of the break rooms and mini-tanks instead of outright cash.
2012-09-08 01:58:37 PM  
2 votes:

proteus_b: this is why i've never understood the D-tards who insist that marijuana should be "taxed and regulated". why should it be taxed? why should it be regulated? the default answer is that it should not be, until you can show a good reason tor such coercion...


Because whoever is running the government, they're going to look a lot more favorably on anything that brings them money.

We don't pay taxes because that's the law. We pay taxes because the government will take our stuff and lock us in a cage with butt rapists if we don't pay.
2012-09-08 01:22:22 PM  
2 votes:
Seems the problem is the semi-legal nature of the goods. As long as you have to worry about the feds raiding you if you try to follow state law this sort of thing will persist.
2012-09-09 08:20:51 AM  
1 votes:

gadian: Bunch of angry pot heads in here, take a hit and relax. Also, about the driving, driving high should get your license revoked, even with a med card. Just like driving drunk, zonked on Ambien, or any other state of intoxication. Zero tolerance for that bullshiat. I support your right to get as high as you can possibly get - in your own home. No, you can't drive while stoned, no matter how good of a driver you think it makes you. We can all tell. Stock up on snacks ahead of time.


Haha, no you can't "tell." People who are used to getting stoned act the same way they always do.
2012-09-09 03:57:20 AM  
1 votes:
The growers and distributors are going underground not because of regulations. They're doing it because of conflicting regulations on the state and federal level. The federal government tries its damndest to fark with California's medical marijuana laws, and sometimes the distributors are shut down or raided by government authorities for no goddamn reason at all. In the end nobody really knows what to do because pot is both legal and illegal at the same time
2012-09-09 01:48:39 AM  
1 votes:

Firethorn: Oh yeah, and on legalization.

Under Legalization the drugs will be far, far cheaper:
Rather than growing in an apartment or house, it will be grown on a field, or in a greenhouse. ~20X price difference.
Rather than being transported in a car, it will be transported in a semi. ~10X price difference.
Rather than being sold out of a trunk, it'll be sold out of a proper storefront.
Rather than simply write off theft or government shutdown(or go vigilante which tends to raise our murder rate), they'll be able to properly use police services to protect their business.
I think that the gangs figure on losing half their crop to the police-they simply grow twice as much. Under legalization they won't have to do this, AND will be more inclined to invest in proper industrial growing tools/equipment.


Not to mention be bound by environmental laws. No overuse of banned pesticides, etc.
2012-09-09 01:34:50 AM  
1 votes:
Oh yeah, and on legalization.

Under Legalization the drugs will be far, far cheaper:
Rather than growing in an apartment or house, it will be grown on a field, or in a greenhouse. ~20X price difference.
Rather than being transported in a car, it will be transported in a semi. ~10X price difference.
Rather than being sold out of a trunk, it'll be sold out of a proper storefront.
Rather than simply write off theft or government shutdown(or go vigilante which tends to raise our murder rate), they'll be able to properly use police services to protect their business.
I think that the gangs figure on losing half their crop to the police-they simply grow twice as much. Under legalization they won't have to do this, AND will be more inclined to invest in proper industrial growing tools/equipment.
2012-09-09 01:27:13 AM  
1 votes:
So, basically, potheads should vote for Ron Paul
2012-09-09 01:24:43 AM  
1 votes:

proteus_b: this is why i've never understood the D-tards who insist that marijuana should be "taxed and regulated". why should it be taxed? why should it be regulated? the default answer is that it should not be, until you can show a good reason tor such coercion...


Okay, I don't appreciate the 'D-tard' comment, but I'll give you a few reasons. No particular order, and some I don't particularly approve of, but still:

First, because it's easier, regulation:
1. All legal drugs in the USA are already regulated. My preferences for regulation would be that average THC levels for a given product must be posted, the marijuana can't be adulterated/contaminated, food-safe fertilizers/chemicals have to be used, weights have to be correct, etc...
2. Age restriction: I don't really care whether it's 18 or 21, but I figure we don't have a shot of legalizing it if it doesn't ban it for kids. In any case, I'd just treat it like alcohol/tobacco - go after anybody(but guardian) who provides to a minor, whether selling, giving, or acting as a straw purchaser.

Second, on taxation:
1. Using the model of cigarettes/tobacco, they're already taxed, so why not
2. Federal deficit; additional tax money is an excuse to convince some people to legalize
3. Preferably use the tax money to run drug rehab clinics (and no, no pseudo-religious AA setups), remediate remaining harm, etc...
4. Keep the price up to provide disincentive towards use, legalizing weed is a harm-mitigation strategy as the organized crime/war on drugs is seen as having more negatives than just letting people use it. Just campaign to reduce use like we have with tobacco and to a lesser extent alcohol.

if_i_really_have_to: Not really. Some medical conditions leave you legal to drive but incapable of passing field sobriety tests. There's needs to be another test available for those cases that doesn't involve dragging the unfortunate sick person in to the county jail every time they get pulled over.


I'd argue that if it leaves you unable to pass a proper field sobriety test you probably shouldn't be driving. Otherwise, if you're safe to drive but can't pass the test, perhaps the test needs to be altered?

/grandfather has been hauled to the local hospital multiple times for suspected DUI
//One of his daughters works there, he knows all the nurses and most of the doctors by name...
///Handicapped, walks funny due to spine nerve damage from both Polio and an industrial accident, has shaky hands from same
2012-09-09 01:15:30 AM  
1 votes:

lucasorvis: Marijuana will never be universally legal in the United States. I'll take ANYONE'S bets. There's just too much money in keeping it illegal. And honestly, I l blame Murphy's Law. Nothing that cool can ever happen in the real world.


[RicRomero.jpg].

Even as fed policy remains as stupid as ever, 1/3rd of the nation has some type of legal medical cannabis laws, and growing. With existing medical laws in my state and a bit of green thumb, I can legally grow 12 lbs within my plant limit if I were so inclined.

I really don't care if we never see a miracle with the fed laws, if I'm effortlessly growing more pot than I can smoke, and the local cops couldn't care less, than I'm happy as I can be.
2012-09-08 11:28:03 PM  
1 votes:

MyRandomName: jayhawk88: NURBS: In order to have a functioning society, the government is going to have to spend money. That money, for the most part, comes from taxes. So again, taxes don't bother me -- it's all just part of living in modern society with all the modern amenities.

KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF MY PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE!

It used to be a lot easier and cheaper to create that infrastructure before government started regulating itself so much. Do you honestly think we could make the Hoover dam at this point?


We just landed a laboratory on Mars. I'm going with, yes, yes we could pull off building a dam if such a dam was what we wanted.
2012-09-08 10:31:37 PM  
1 votes:
I see a bit of traffic talk. Here in CA, you can be pulled over high off your ass with a pound of pot in your trunk, and you'll be perfectly fine if you have a med card. There are no THC breathalyzers, the cop can know sure as shiat that you're high, but he can't prove it unless he can get you to admit it. Your red eyes are from your severe allergy. I've been pulled over a few times, and got something akin to a misdemeanor open container the one time I had my full pipe laying out in plain view.

/To pigs
//They even had to dump my weed out of the pipe, and give it back to me, a glass pipe is not illegal
2012-09-08 10:29:11 PM  
1 votes:

D_Evans45: Also, even when an areas brick n mortar dispensaries are knocked down, they spring back up as delivery services instantly to start regaining some lost profit. Look up any city in southern CA on weedmaps, if they don't have tasty buds at a shop, they've got dozens of guys out delivering it instead.

The feds mainly shut down shops by bullying CA landlords who lease to pot shops. They have a much harder time trying to dismantle established networks of mobile bud sales.


Several months ago I finished up helping a long-time family friend complete his chemo at Stanford (by driving him once a month...he's doing much better now). During his treatment he smoked pot to stave off nausea and help his appetite, and in that six months both of the dispensaries he used were shut down as you describe, and both reopened within a week or so as mobile dispensaries. They even told him to "stock up" as they were feeling the heat, so he never ran low.

To your point, though, you're correct: the Feds have not cut down on MMJ here at all. They just forced it to become even more resilient.
2012-09-08 10:18:19 PM  
1 votes:
Also, even when an areas brick n mortar dispensaries are knocked down, they spring back up as delivery services instantly to start regaining some lost profit. Look up any city in southern CA on weedmaps, if they don't have tasty buds at a shop, they've got dozens of guys out delivering it instead.

The feds mainly shut down shops by bullying CA landlords who lease to pot shops. They have a much harder time trying to dismantle established networks of mobile bud sales.
2012-09-08 10:12:10 PM  
1 votes:
Old news is old. They hit us real hard last year around December, and that's when guys like this were jumping ship in droves. The media painted all kinds of doomsday articles like this, and most were way off. Today, dispensaries thrive and stack hundreds of thousands of dollars, fully knowing they will be knocked down by the feds in a few months and forced to restart again elsewhere. But so what? They made a killing off a plant that grows for pennies in the mean time.

The whirlwind of non rules and fed contradiction created pot shop FFAs, I can go to a pot shop in LA tonight and get 2 hits of wax (thc moonshine) for $5 and be allowed to drive home. Luckily I have a tolerance in common with full grown elephants, but for some this isnt a good deal at all. Concentrate is technically illegal but you can get it most all shops.

/tempted to go take a picture of my plants with some snarky captions written on em
2012-09-08 09:57:38 PM  
1 votes:

StoneColdAtheist: Smackledorfer: We dont need a tool, often poorly calibrated, to measure an imperfectly correlated third variable in order to enforce driving sober in a world with legal drugs. Field sobriety testing should be sufficient.

Yep, that's what's done here in Cali where MMJ is legal and widespread, and it seems to work very well. Holds up well in court. Agnostic to the cause of the insobriety. Easy and quick to administer.


Not really. Some medical conditions leave you legal to drive but incapable of passing field sobriety tests. There's needs to be another test available for those cases that doesn't involve dragging the unfortunate sick person in to the county jail every time they get pulled over.
2012-09-08 06:29:23 PM  
1 votes:

Smackledorfer: We dont need a tool, often poorly calibrated, to measure an imperfectly correlated third variable in order to enforce driving sober in a world with legal drugs. Field sobriety testing should be sufficient.


Yep, that's what's done here in Cali where MMJ is legal and widespread, and it seems to work very well. Holds up well in court. Agnostic to the cause of the insobriety. Easy and quick to administer.
2012-09-08 05:40:31 PM  
1 votes:

Fark_Guy_Rob: I've always felt like the medical marijuana thing was absolute crap....and I say this as someone who lived in Colorado and had one.

There is nothing 'medical' about it. Yes, if you try really hard you can find some legit people who use the drug as intended (for medical purposes). 99% of the people I ran into at the dispensary were just like me - young, reasonably fit, reasonably healthy, people who wanted to smoke weed and were happy enough to pay extra for it.

Personally, I think recreational drugs should be legal. Weed should be one. But if you want to call it 'medical marijuana' it should be tightly enforced. The place I went to had a TWO PAGE ad in the newspaper showing it's deals/prices and advertising that they would have doctors on staff at hours X,Y and Z for prescriptions. No medical records unnecessary, cash only.

I went and said, 'Ummm, well, my back hurts.' and that was all I needed. In total I paid $300 and left with some baked goodies.


Same goes for any pain medication, anxiety medication, hunger stimulant, or sleeping pill, along with no doubt a host of things I've left out.

All I need to do is talk to my pcp about any of those things. He'll have a sample for me to try for a while and a prescription to follow if I like it.

Why single out pot?
2012-09-08 05:25:07 PM  
1 votes:

adenosine: Seems the problem is the semi-legal nature of the goods. As long as you have to worry about the feds raiding you if you try to follow state law this sort of thing will persist.


This. Any smart owner isnt going to expand too large. They want to be small enough to afford any potential crackdowns as well as just stay off the radar.
2012-09-08 05:23:09 PM  
1 votes:
I submitted this story yesterday with a better headline...and different link: Ryan inhaled
2012-09-08 04:12:59 PM  
1 votes:
"Medical marijuana" was wrongly believed to be a path to legalization by some. I think it should be legal for recreational use. The few legitimate studies done seem to indicate that it is mostly harmless to the body, so let responsible adults use it as they please. I don't think it should be advertised nor do I think it needs to be. I also think all alcohol ads should be banned from TV/cable.
2012-09-08 04:07:29 PM  
1 votes:
I've always felt like the medical marijuana thing was absolute crap....and I say this as someone who lived in Colorado and had one.

There is nothing 'medical' about it. Yes, if you try really hard you can find some legit people who use the drug as intended (for medical purposes). 99% of the people I ran into at the dispensary were just like me - young, reasonably fit, reasonably healthy, people who wanted to smoke weed and were happy enough to pay extra for it.

Personally, I think recreational drugs should be legal. Weed should be one. But if you want to call it 'medical marijuana' it should be tightly enforced. The place I went to had a TWO PAGE ad in the newspaper showing it's deals/prices and advertising that they would have doctors on staff at hours X,Y and Z for prescriptions. No medical records unnecessary, cash only.

I went and said, 'Ummm, well, my back hurts.' and that was all I needed. In total I paid $300 and left with some baked goodies.
2012-09-08 03:56:29 PM  
1 votes:
Oh no, where am I? It's so dark here in the shadows. What am I doing here? What was I seeking? What is this 'shadow' world before me? I here must rely not upon mine eyes in these shadows but upon my NOSE! My nose shall seek thee, oh sacred herb. My nose shall find thee in these dark, dark regions.
2012-09-08 03:10:44 PM  
1 votes:

Quaker: It should be taxed because the government needs to generate money for things like roads and schools. It should be regulated to try and prevent young children from using it when (as research seems to indicate) it can be detrimental to their psychological development when used regularly.


Then we should tax the internet higher, and certainly regulate it much more strongly. Also restaurants and processed foods should be taxed at phenomenal levels, and probably regulated into extinction, considering the costs they inflict on the health of Americans...
2012-09-08 03:00:19 PM  
1 votes:
I should add that I'm not opposed to it being taxed, and I'm not some "it should be, like, FREE, man!" idiot, but at the same time the laws governing this stuff (alcohol included) in this country are just buttfark retarded.
2012-09-08 02:58:33 PM  
1 votes:

proteus_b: this is why i've never understood the D-tards who insist that marijuana should be "taxed and regulated". why should it be taxed? why should it be regulated? the default answer is that it should not be, until you can show a good reason tor such coercion...


Honestly, I think it's because no one wants to stand up and say they think it should be legal because it is perfectly acceptable to just want to get high. They have to hide behind health benefits and economic benefits because just doing it because they like it is still unacceptable for some reason.

I like to think of myself as something of a beer enthusiast, and while I'm sure my taste in the stuff could be critiqued heavily by other members of this illustrious website, I enjoy trying new beers and drinking quality instead of swill. But you know what? I also like getting drunk.
2012-09-08 02:57:49 PM  
1 votes:

proteus_b: this is why i've never understood the D-tards who insist that marijuana should be "taxed and regulated". why should it be taxed? why should it be regulated? the default answer is that it should not be, until you can show a good reason tor such coercion...


It should be taxed because the government needs to generate money for things like roads and schools. It should be regulated to try and prevent young children from using it when (as research seems to indicate) it can be detrimental to their psychological development when used regularly.

The key to the whole issue is to balance taxation/regulation with retail cost. If it's taxed too heavily or is subject to too much regulation, the retail cost will be high enough that there will still be significant profits to be made from illicit production and sale. We need a system where relatively small-scale clandestine growing operations can't be significantly profitable when forced to compete with huge, multi-million dollar legal operations.
2012-09-08 02:54:20 PM  
1 votes:

NURBS: In order to have a functioning society, the government is going to have to spend money. That money, for the most part, comes from taxes. So again, taxes don't bother me -- it's all just part of living in modern society with all the modern amenities.


KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF MY PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE!
2012-09-08 02:03:48 PM  
1 votes:

proteus_b: this is why i've never understood the D-tards who insist that marijuana should be "taxed and regulated". why should it be taxed? why should it be regulated? the default answer is that it should not be, until you can show a good reason tor such coercion...


because the government generally doesn't have a holy war after things they "tax and regulate".
2012-09-08 01:24:17 PM  
1 votes:
Hey, just elect that guy, Obama, and I'm sure he'll legalize it all, or at the very least, not give medicinal growers any grief about it!
 
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