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(LA Times)   Because of increased regulations, medical marijuana growers and sellers are heading back into the shadows   (latimes.com) divider line 86
    More: Obvious, Board of Equalization, California University of Pennsylvania, safe-deposit boxes, medical marijuana, paper bags  
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2407 clicks; posted to Business » on 08 Sep 2012 at 1:01 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-08 11:04:35 PM
Marijuana will never be universally legal in the United States. I'll take ANYONE'S bets. There's just too much money in keeping it illegal. And honestly, I l blame Murphy's Law. Nothing that cool can ever happen in the real world.
 
2012-09-08 11:28:03 PM

MyRandomName: jayhawk88: NURBS: In order to have a functioning society, the government is going to have to spend money. That money, for the most part, comes from taxes. So again, taxes don't bother me -- it's all just part of living in modern society with all the modern amenities.

KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF MY PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE!

It used to be a lot easier and cheaper to create that infrastructure before government started regulating itself so much. Do you honestly think we could make the Hoover dam at this point?


We just landed a laboratory on Mars. I'm going with, yes, yes we could pull off building a dam if such a dam was what we wanted.
 
2012-09-08 11:40:57 PM

lucasorvis: Marijuana will never be universally legal in the United States. I'll take ANYONE'S bets. There's just too much money in keeping it illegal. And honestly, I l blame Murphy's Law. Nothing that cool can ever happen in the real world.


sadly i think you're right. there are (aren't there always?) wealthy powerful families already established and making money off law enforcement, lawyers & prisons. wealth = greed, so they will never have enough. so they would never back off.

hey - we're living in a country where cigarettes are $10/pack in some areas due to tax, and a citizen cannot smoke in a bar where adults consume liquid poison. no way in hell those in power are going to nix cigarettes and say okay to mayrjane.

i don't understand why 'we the people' don't rip this shiat up. why the fark are we allowing prostitution to remain illegal? WTF? cops are paid to be cock blockers! THIS IS INSANE!

this is why i get pissed off. millions of americans have firearms & ammo in the closet but they are all too pussy to get them out and use them. nothing is going to change with votes. nothing is going to change via the $$$ legal lawyer way. the scumbags in WashDC know and love ultra violence. they have used it to their wealthy powerful advantage for years. the sooner we the people use it on them the sooner we won't have to cowtow to the man.
 
2012-09-08 11:45:52 PM

KrispyKritter: sadly i think you're right. there are (aren't there always?) wealthy powerful families already established and making money off law enforcement, lawyers & prisons. wealth = greed, so they will never have enough. so they would never back off.

hey - we're living in a country where cigarettes are $10/pack in some areas due to tax, and a citizen cannot smoke in a bar where adults consume liquid poison. no way in hell those in power are going to nix cigarettes and say okay to mayrjane.

i don't understand why 'we the people' don't rip this shiat up. why the fark are we allowing prostitution to remain illegal? WTF? cops are paid to be cock blockers! THIS IS INSANE!


YEAH!! PREACH IT!!

KrispyKritter: millions of americans have firearms & ammo in the closet but they are all too pussy to get them out and use them.


Oh. Never mind. I'd rather the people I know and love remain mostly alive than get high legally.
 
2012-09-09 12:51:00 AM

thurstonxhowell: MyRandomName: jayhawk88: NURBS: In order to have a functioning society, the government is going to have to spend money. That money, for the most part, comes from taxes. So again, taxes don't bother me -- it's all just part of living in modern society with all the modern amenities.

KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF MY PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE!

It used to be a lot easier and cheaper to create that infrastructure before government started regulating itself so much. Do you honestly think we could make the Hoover dam at this point?

We just landed a laboratory on Mars. I'm going with, yes, yes we could pull off building a dam if such a dam was what we wanted.


What an idiotic thing to say. If you don't have anything relevant to add, why don't you just STFU and go play on the freeway?
 
2012-09-09 01:15:30 AM

lucasorvis: Marijuana will never be universally legal in the United States. I'll take ANYONE'S bets. There's just too much money in keeping it illegal. And honestly, I l blame Murphy's Law. Nothing that cool can ever happen in the real world.


[RicRomero.jpg].

Even as fed policy remains as stupid as ever, 1/3rd of the nation has some type of legal medical cannabis laws, and growing. With existing medical laws in my state and a bit of green thumb, I can legally grow 12 lbs within my plant limit if I were so inclined.

I really don't care if we never see a miracle with the fed laws, if I'm effortlessly growing more pot than I can smoke, and the local cops couldn't care less, than I'm happy as I can be.
 
2012-09-09 01:17:13 AM
then*

/and I'm off to bed
 
2012-09-09 01:24:43 AM

proteus_b: this is why i've never understood the D-tards who insist that marijuana should be "taxed and regulated". why should it be taxed? why should it be regulated? the default answer is that it should not be, until you can show a good reason tor such coercion...


Okay, I don't appreciate the 'D-tard' comment, but I'll give you a few reasons. No particular order, and some I don't particularly approve of, but still:

First, because it's easier, regulation:
1. All legal drugs in the USA are already regulated. My preferences for regulation would be that average THC levels for a given product must be posted, the marijuana can't be adulterated/contaminated, food-safe fertilizers/chemicals have to be used, weights have to be correct, etc...
2. Age restriction: I don't really care whether it's 18 or 21, but I figure we don't have a shot of legalizing it if it doesn't ban it for kids. In any case, I'd just treat it like alcohol/tobacco - go after anybody(but guardian) who provides to a minor, whether selling, giving, or acting as a straw purchaser.

Second, on taxation:
1. Using the model of cigarettes/tobacco, they're already taxed, so why not
2. Federal deficit; additional tax money is an excuse to convince some people to legalize
3. Preferably use the tax money to run drug rehab clinics (and no, no pseudo-religious AA setups), remediate remaining harm, etc...
4. Keep the price up to provide disincentive towards use, legalizing weed is a harm-mitigation strategy as the organized crime/war on drugs is seen as having more negatives than just letting people use it. Just campaign to reduce use like we have with tobacco and to a lesser extent alcohol.

if_i_really_have_to: Not really. Some medical conditions leave you legal to drive but incapable of passing field sobriety tests. There's needs to be another test available for those cases that doesn't involve dragging the unfortunate sick person in to the county jail every time they get pulled over.


I'd argue that if it leaves you unable to pass a proper field sobriety test you probably shouldn't be driving. Otherwise, if you're safe to drive but can't pass the test, perhaps the test needs to be altered?

/grandfather has been hauled to the local hospital multiple times for suspected DUI
//One of his daughters works there, he knows all the nurses and most of the doctors by name...
///Handicapped, walks funny due to spine nerve damage from both Polio and an industrial accident, has shaky hands from same
 
2012-09-09 01:27:13 AM
So, basically, potheads should vote for Ron Paul
 
2012-09-09 01:34:50 AM
Oh yeah, and on legalization.

Under Legalization the drugs will be far, far cheaper:
Rather than growing in an apartment or house, it will be grown on a field, or in a greenhouse. ~20X price difference.
Rather than being transported in a car, it will be transported in a semi. ~10X price difference.
Rather than being sold out of a trunk, it'll be sold out of a proper storefront.
Rather than simply write off theft or government shutdown(or go vigilante which tends to raise our murder rate), they'll be able to properly use police services to protect their business.
I think that the gangs figure on losing half their crop to the police-they simply grow twice as much. Under legalization they won't have to do this, AND will be more inclined to invest in proper industrial growing tools/equipment.
 
2012-09-09 01:48:39 AM

Firethorn: Oh yeah, and on legalization.

Under Legalization the drugs will be far, far cheaper:
Rather than growing in an apartment or house, it will be grown on a field, or in a greenhouse. ~20X price difference.
Rather than being transported in a car, it will be transported in a semi. ~10X price difference.
Rather than being sold out of a trunk, it'll be sold out of a proper storefront.
Rather than simply write off theft or government shutdown(or go vigilante which tends to raise our murder rate), they'll be able to properly use police services to protect their business.
I think that the gangs figure on losing half their crop to the police-they simply grow twice as much. Under legalization they won't have to do this, AND will be more inclined to invest in proper industrial growing tools/equipment.


Not to mention be bound by environmental laws. No overuse of banned pesticides, etc.
 
2012-09-09 02:55:39 AM

KrispyKritter: lucasorvis: Marijuana will never be universally legal in the United States. I'll take ANYONE'S bets. There's just too much money in keeping it illegal. And honestly, I l blame Murphy's Law. Nothing that cool can ever happen in the real world.

sadly i think you're right. there are (aren't there always?) wealthy powerful families already established and making money off law enforcement, lawyers & prisons. wealth = greed, so they will never have enough. so they would never back off.

hey - we're living in a country where cigarettes are $10/pack in some areas due to tax, and a citizen cannot smoke in a bar where adults consume liquid poison. no way in hell those in power are going to nix cigarettes and say okay to mayrjane.

i don't understand why 'we the people' don't rip this shiat up. why the fark are we allowing prostitution to remain illegal? WTF? cops are paid to be cock blockers! THIS IS INSANE!

this is why i get pissed off. millions of americans have firearms & ammo in the closet but they are all too pussy to get them out and use them. nothing is going to change with votes. nothing is going to change via the $$$ legal lawyer way. the scumbags in WashDC know and love ultra violence. they have used it to their wealthy powerful advantage for years. the sooner we the people use it on them the sooner we won't have to cowtow to the man.


Ok. You go shoot first. We are right behind you.
 
2012-09-09 03:57:20 AM
The growers and distributors are going underground not because of regulations. They're doing it because of conflicting regulations on the state and federal level. The federal government tries its damndest to fark with California's medical marijuana laws, and sometimes the distributors are shut down or raided by government authorities for no goddamn reason at all. In the end nobody really knows what to do because pot is both legal and illegal at the same time
 
2012-09-09 05:14:28 AM
"It's too late!" he bellows. "The genie is out of the bottle. A huge demand has been created. It's back to the underground. Anyone who is smart is just going to take it back to the streets."   

Sad, it was good while it lasted.
 
2012-09-09 05:42:58 AM
Bunch of angry pot heads in here, take a hit and relax. Also, about the driving, driving high should get your license revoked, even with a med card. Just like driving drunk, zonked on Ambien, or any other state of intoxication. Zero tolerance for that bullshiat. I support your right to get as high as you can possibly get - in your own home. No, you can't drive while stoned, no matter how good of a driver you think it makes you. We can all tell. Stock up on snacks ahead of time.
 
2012-09-09 05:58:40 AM

gadian: Zero tolerance for that bullshiat. I support your right to get as high as you can possibly get - in your own home.


Are you sure you're in the right thread? I see no support in the comments for driving stoned; most of the comments are 'don't care how you're impaired; you shouldn't be driving'. Only one guy suggested he drives stoned, and he was immediately jumped on by other unapproving posters.
 
2012-09-09 08:08:55 AM

MyRandomName: NURBS: AcneVulgaris: proteus_b: this is why i've never understood the D-tards who insist that marijuana should be "taxed and regulated". why should it be taxed? why should it be regulated? the default answer is that it should not be, until you can show a good reason tor such coercion...

Because whoever is running the government, they're going to look a lot more favorably on anything that brings them money.

We don't pay taxes because that's the law. We pay taxes because the government will take our stuff and lock us in a cage with butt rapists if we don't pay.

I pay taxes because it's part of the social contract. I like having things like well-maintained roads, bridges, clean water, police, and all the other things that our tax dollars pay for. I have no problem paying taxes because I can walk outside and immediately see a dozen things those dollars contributed toward.

In order to have a functioning society, the government is going to have to spend money. That money, for the most part, comes from taxes. So again, taxes don't bother me -- it's all just part of living in modern society with all the modern amenities.

Is fraud, redundant government, crony contracts, etc part of that? Or do we just accept that as price of doing business?


We accept those things as the cost of doing business in the private sector - the only issue is the extent to which we tolerate them. When private enterprise is corrupt, incompetent, and fraudulent, we shrug our shoulders and say something clever about omlettes. When government is less than perfect, we shriek outrage. But, people are stupid, and double standards are in our nature.
 
2012-09-09 08:20:51 AM

gadian: Bunch of angry pot heads in here, take a hit and relax. Also, about the driving, driving high should get your license revoked, even with a med card. Just like driving drunk, zonked on Ambien, or any other state of intoxication. Zero tolerance for that bullshiat. I support your right to get as high as you can possibly get - in your own home. No, you can't drive while stoned, no matter how good of a driver you think it makes you. We can all tell. Stock up on snacks ahead of time.


Haha, no you can't "tell." People who are used to getting stoned act the same way they always do.
 
2012-09-09 04:19:32 PM
Pot sales and usage is never going away and trying to keep it illegal is only a waste of money , millions if not billions could be saved annually by dropping marijuana from the so called war on drugs.
 
2012-09-09 08:06:55 PM

grimlock1972: Pot sales and usage is never going away and trying to keep it illegal is only a waste of money , millions if not billions could be saved annually by dropping marijuana from the so called war on drugs.



$8+ billion annually.
 
2012-09-09 08:48:16 PM

jehovahs witness protection: Want to f*ck up something good?
Just add government.



Why do you hate the military?
 
2012-09-09 08:49:06 PM

AcneVulgaris: We don't pay taxes because that's the law. We pay taxes because the government will take our stuff and lock us in a cage with butt rapists if we don't pay.



So you're proud to be a freeloader.
 
2012-09-09 08:50:45 PM

MyRandomName: It used to be a lot easier and cheaper to create that infrastructure before government started regulating itself so much. Do you honestly think we could make the Hoover dam at this point?



citations needed
 
2012-09-09 11:58:51 PM

intelligent comment below: MyRandomName: It used to be a lot easier and cheaper to create that infrastructure before government started regulating itself so much. Do you honestly think we could make the Hoover dam at this point?


citations needed


This is one of those cases where I actually think you need to argue why that person is wrong.

For financial and environmental reasons, I would say without doubt that the Hoover Dam could not be built in the 21st century American political environment on a major American river. Small scale dams? We'll talk.

Of course, some of the statements are up for debate regarding what was cheaper and easier... we have stricter building codes, and that's not because government is trying to be a nanny. Labor costs much more and the convoluted public/private contractor/subcontractor system costs a lot of money in simple bureaucratic bullshiat and tacked-on mythical administrative costs. Heck, the fact that many costs for materials are hugely inflated because of our financial system also makes it tough to start on grandiose projects.
 
2012-09-10 12:57:11 AM
Could have more to do with the Obama jihad against them
 
2012-09-10 04:05:32 AM

YouSaidWhat: Two Words

Silk Road

Check it out
Link


Because I really want to convert actual cash into Bitcoin monopoly money and order illegal drugs across state and international lines. That's a whole lot of crime....
 
2012-09-10 11:06:29 AM

adenosine: Seems the problem is the semi-legal nature of the goods. As long as you have to worry about the feds raiding you if you try to follow state law this sort of thing will persist.


Spot-on. The problem is "decriminalization" instead of flat-out legalization. As long as we're in a situation where it's illegal but the government is choosing not to prosecute it, you're going to have shady elements control it. If it was flat-out legal, you'd have legitimate companies, both big and small, making consistent, high quality, inexpensive product. Honestly, it would be quite similar to the domestic beer industry: a couple giant companies making consistent, mediocre, cheap product and a ton of small, "craft" companies making pricier, unique product.
 
2012-09-10 11:17:44 AM

nmemkha: thurstonxhowell: MyRandomName: jayhawk88: NURBS: In order to have a functioning society, the government is going to have to spend money. That money, for the most part, comes from taxes. So again, taxes don't bother me -- it's all just part of living in modern society with all the modern amenities.

KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF MY PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE!

It used to be a lot easier and cheaper to create that infrastructure before government started regulating itself so much. Do you honestly think we could make the Hoover dam at this point?

We just landed a laboratory on Mars. I'm going with, yes, yes we could pull off building a dam if such a dam was what we wanted.

What an idiotic thing to say. If you don't have anything relevant to add, why don't you just STFU and go play on the freeway?


I'd like to relevantly add my foot to your ass.
 
2012-09-10 11:22:03 AM

gadian: Bunch of angry pot heads in here, take a hit and relax. Also, about the driving, driving high should get your license revoked, even with a med card. Just like driving drunk, zonked on Ambien, or any other state of intoxication. Zero tolerance for that bullshiat. I support your right to get as high as you can possibly get - in your own home. No, you can't drive while stoned, no matter how good of a driver you think it makes you. We can all tell. Stock up on snacks ahead of time.


I've been driving stoned every day for the last 10 years (I'm 26 now). No, you can't tell. Never been in an accident. Have you?
 
2012-09-10 01:31:06 PM
I bet the fark mods would be all pissed if people used Fark to organize a Mary-Jane Seed effort, where the multitude of stoners on Fark could anonymously send bad seeds to Farkers in other parts of the country for planting randomly in public spaces.
 
2012-09-10 04:14:34 PM

MFAWG: jayhawk88: NURBS: In order to have a functioning society, the government is going to have to spend money. That money, for the most part, comes from taxes. So again, taxes don't bother me -- it's all just part of living in modern society with all the modern amenities.

KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF MY PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE!

This is what Republicans actually believe!


Actually, we'd love for our tax dollars spend on roads and bridges for a chance instead of Democrats spending it to buy votes from corrupt public sector unions and entitlement programs to the lazy.
 
2012-09-10 04:50:28 PM

Smackledorfer: Fark_Guy_Rob: I've always felt like the medical marijuana thing was absolute crap....and I say this as someone who lived in Colorado and had one.

There is nothing 'medical' about it. Yes, if you try really hard you can find some legit people who use the drug as intended (for medical purposes). 99% of the people I ran into at the dispensary were just like me - young, reasonably fit, reasonably healthy, people who wanted to smoke weed and were happy enough to pay extra for it.

Personally, I think recreational drugs should be legal. Weed should be one. But if you want to call it 'medical marijuana' it should be tightly enforced. The place I went to had a TWO PAGE ad in the newspaper showing it's deals/prices and advertising that they would have doctors on staff at hours X,Y and Z for prescriptions. No medical records unnecessary, cash only.

I went and said, 'Ummm, well, my back hurts.' and that was all I needed. In total I paid $300 and left with some baked goodies.

Same goes for any pain medication, anxiety medication, hunger stimulant, or sleeping pill, along with no doubt a host of things I've left out.

All I need to do is talk to my pcp about any of those things. He'll have a sample for me to try for a while and a prescription to follow if I like it.
Why single out pot?


Bingo. You think most prescriptions for Vicoden are legit? Nope. I live in Florida, where 80% of the nation's supply of Oxy comes from.
 
2012-09-10 06:41:22 PM

thurstonxhowell: nmemkha: thurstonxhowell: MyRandomName: jayhawk88: NURBS: In order to have a functioning society, the government is going to have to spend money. That money, for the most part, comes from taxes. So again, taxes don't bother me -- it's all just part of living in modern society with all the modern amenities.

KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF MY PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE!

It used to be a lot easier and cheaper to create that infrastructure before government started regulating itself so much. Do you honestly think we could make the Hoover dam at this point?

We just landed a laboratory on Mars. I'm going with, yes, yes we could pull off building a dam if such a dam was what we wanted.

What an idiotic thing to say. If you don't have anything relevant to add, why don't you just STFU and go play on the freeway?

I'd like to relevantly add my foot to your ass.


Why don't you just STFU? You never have anything relevant to add and when you do manage a few coherent sentences, its juvenile ad-hominem attacks more at home in an elementary school yard.
 
2012-09-10 08:02:18 PM

nmemkha: You never have anything relevant to add and when you do manage a few coherent sentences, its juvenile ad-hominem attacks more at home in an elementary school yard.



you mean juvenile ad-hominem attacks like this?

nmemkha: Why don't you just STFU?


nmemkha: why don't you just STFU and go play on the freeway?

 
2012-09-10 11:25:19 PM

keepitcherry: I've been driving stoned every day for the last 10 years (I'm 26 now). No, you can't tell. Never been in an accident. Have you?


Past results not guarantees of future behavior-I've only driven completely stone sober for even longer, I've hit 2 deer.

While testing has shown that people who are used to being stoned drive better while mildly high, I wouldn't be surprised if extreme drunks display the same behavior(alcohol tremors don't make for good driving). Everybody else is worse stoned. As has been mentioned, we probably aren't going to get legalization through without forbidding driving under the influence, underaged use, etc...

meanmutton: The problem is "decriminalization" instead of flat-out legalization. As long as we're in a situation where it's illegal but the government is choosing not to prosecute it, you're going to have shady elements control it.


Indeed. Given that a majority of my reasons for legalizing it is to defund/depower organized crime, I view decriminalization, where production/sale/possession of large amounts is still illegal, but 'personal use' amounts are, as worse than completely illegal. While I don't believe that there will be a huge bounce in usage - prohibition being such a failure that I believe most of those who would use the legal product are already using the illegal one, there will be some. Thus decriminalization only increases the black market, giving more funding to the gangs. More funding to organized crime also leads to more corruption in the police force as they're rich targets.
 
2012-09-11 02:55:32 PM

D_Evans45: /tempted to go take a picture of my plants with some snarky captions written on em


let's see 'em
 
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