Also, video games should just play themselves.

/how DARE cars be fun!

StoneColdAtheist: Igor Jakovsky: I graduated high school in 1992 we still had drivers ed with actual cars (not just the gory movies) they dont have that anymore?

How do they teach DE without "actual cars"...Grand Theft Auto?

As part of the general Republican push for "virtual" education, DE is taught mostly online now at least in Florida.

Consider that next time you wonder where someone got their driver's license. The internet is where they got it.

germ78: This is really the only drawback of the manual transmission. Getting caught up in rush-hour traffic with a stick blows.

Do you not know how to creep? Put it in first and let it idle along at 3-5mph, sure a gap opens up in front of you, but the gap actually helps get rid of the standing waves that create stop and go traffic, and it's not like you'll get anywhere faster by tailgating.

imfallen_angel: I can drive manual just fine, but overall, I prefer not, city driving is complicated enough. Between bad drivers, the terrible road condition, etc. I enjoy my automatic.

Driving on steep inclines with a manual is no fun ( at least in a urban environment)

/ Seattle, I'm looking at you...

Forbidden Doughnut: Driving on steep inclines with a manual is no fun ( at least in a urban environment)

Eh. It's very good training. I learned to drive stick in San Francisco. Had to go up one of the steepest hills in the city the first week I owned my car in bumper to bumper traffic.

Never again was I afraid of hills after that day. Only embarrassing myself by stalling.

If I owned a car, I think I'd be a douche hipster and put whitewall tires on it.

Niveras: If I owned a car, I think I'd be a douche hipster and put whitewall tires on it.

No you wouldn't. White walls have terrible performance characteristics and are expensive because nobody but classic car restorer's buy them.

Girion47: Everyone here can be smug about how their auto transmission is so superior, I'll be out having fun in my turbocharged AWD manual WRX.

Yet the WRC versions tend to use sequential or automated manuals. Do you know why?...because the automated transmissions can shift so much faster than a human can.

Current generation selectable automatics (not CVTs) are far superior to standards transmissions. They get nearly identical fuel economy numbers (assuming an equal amount of gears) and they shift far faster and more accurately. Many sports cars such as the 370Z and Subaru BRZ offer both manual and automatic transmissions (both 6 speeds) and in straight line acceleration the auto is faster.

The stick shift is simply a tool for boy racers who want to fool themselves into thinking their shifting is helping the car.

rhiannon: meyerkev: 1) If you're ever using gas while in reverse, something has gone terribly, terribly wrong.

What has gone wrong?

Well, usually if I'm in reverse, I'm backing out of my driveway, out of a parking spot or similar, so I should be going very. very slowly while ensuring that no small children are running into my blind spot. Thus, don't use gas.

/Or in the case of my local grocery store, the parking lot isn't level, so idle doesn't have enough power to leave the spot.

For a minute I was scared that they were going to stop offering these:

Here's what they should bring back. From the Tucker:

You see that nice, wide open space in front of the passenger-side seat? That's where the passenger (or driver, if there were no passenger) was supposed to dive into and roll up into a ball in case of an accident. No. I'm not kidding. The odd thing is that Tucker wanted seat belts in his cars, standard. So I guess he was assuming you'd see the accident coming, take off your belt, and dive for cover.

good_2_go: Ten Reasons Why You Should Learn To Drive Stick(slideshow)

Another reason: there's a world outside of America where not every car is an automatic. (I realize many Americans will never see this world, so they don't care.)

Plus, a whole lot of you live in snowy climates. Starting out in 2nd on a slick road is a great way to get moving, if you don't have a big honking SUV with traction control.

Z-clipped: ATs have made great strides in fuel economy, but aside from a few special cases a manual will still get better mileage (at least a mile or two/gal) if driven well.

How many cases is irrelevant; automatic has proven to be superior. CVTs effectively have hundreds of gears and can change them instantaneously, allowing you to drive at peak efficiency 100% of the time. You can't drive better than that.

It's statistically true that manuals, even the manual setting on an electronic transmission, induce people to drive more safely, and attempt fewer distracting activities.

Same response applies. It's up to the driver.

You unequivocally have more control over a manual than an automatic. I don't know why you're bothering to disagree except to be contrary. It's a fact.

Useless fact, yes. I consider it a fact that you have more control over your car when you have both hands on the wheel, not constantly reaching down to shift. But that's a semantic argument that's just as pointless as yours.

In terms of practical application in the real world, knowing how to drive a manual rates about as high as signing semaphore.

ImpendingCynic: good_2_go: Ten Reasons Why You Should Learn To Drive Stick(slideshow)

Another reason: there's a world outside of America where not every car is an automatic. (I realize many Americans will never see this world, so they don't care.)

Plus, a whole lot of you live in snowy climates. Starting out in 2nd on a slick road is a great way to get moving, if you don't have a big honking SUV with traction control.

Good crap, I'm getting sick of this self-righteous, "Americans are inbred, ethnocentric yahoos that can't see beyond the fence," attitude. OK, we get it, you spent a summer backpacking the European countryside. Congrats, you're now much more worldly than the rest of us and now we all know it.

EZ1923: StoneColdAtheist: Igor Jakovsky: I graduated high school in 1992 we still had drivers ed with actual cars (not just the gory movies) they dont have that anymore?

How do they teach DE without "actual cars"...Grand Theft Auto?

As part of the general Republican push for "virtual" education, DE is taught mostly online now at least in Florida.

Consider that next time you wonder where someone got their driver's license. The internet is where they got it.

Aside from hurr durr republicans you're right it is online mostly these days. Most kids though get their learners permit first and learn from their parents for at least a year before getting their real license. If their parent Are shiatty drivers then *shrug* Also, you still have to pass the drivers test in a car before you can get your license.

I Like Bread: CVTs effectively have hundreds of gears and can change them instantaneously, allowing you to drive at peak efficiency 100% of the time. You can't drive better than that.

lololololololololol

CVT's are amazing in their ability to have an infinite number of gears and always be in the wrong one.

I've driven slush boxes, I've driven stick shifts, I've driven manumatics, and I've driven CVTS

If I had to pick a single kind of transmission I absolutely, would never want to get stuck with, It's a CVT. Give me a slush box any day over a CVT.

Sultan Of Herf: Girion47: Everyone here can be smug about how their auto transmission is so superior, I'll be out having fun in my turbocharged AWD manual WRX.

Yet the WRC versions tend to use sequential or automated manuals. Do you know why?...because the automated transmissions can shift so much faster than a human can.

Current generation selectable automatics (not CVTs) are far superior to standards transmissions. They get nearly identical fuel economy numbers (assuming an equal amount of gears) and they shift far faster and more accurately. Many sports cars such as the 370Z and Subaru BRZ offer both manual and automatic transmissions (both 6 speeds) and in straight line acceleration the auto is faster.

The stick shift is simply a tool for boy racers who want to fool themselves into thinking their shifting is helping the car.

Or a tool for a more enjoyable driving experience, we know it isn't quite as fast, but manual's fark all day fast enough. Whether you go to the track or are cutting through side streets to avoid rush hour traffic, you are depending on your skill and challenging yourself to do better, not the robo-shifter's,

That's why the boy racers are getting the automatics because they've read the track reports and want the fastest 0-60 and 1/4.

fluffy2097: I Like Bread: CVTs effectively have hundreds of gears and can change them instantaneously, allowing you to drive at peak efficiency 100% of the time. You can't drive better than that.

lololololololololol

CVT's are amazing in their ability to have an infinite number of gears and always be in the wrong one.

I've driven slush boxes, I've driven stick shifts, I've driven manumatics, and I've driven CVTS

If I had to pick a single kind of transmission I absolutely, would never want to get stuck with, It's a CVT. Give me a slush box any day over a CVT.

Let me guess, you drove one underpowered CVT econobox 8 years ago?

lewismarktwo: Let me guess, you drove one underpowered CVT econobox 8 years ago?

Perhaps I just understand horsepower and torque curves.

Throwing more power at a fundamentally flawed design isn't going to fix the flaw.

limboslam: ImpendingCynic: good_2_go: Ten Reasons Why You Should Learn To Drive Stick(slideshow)

Another reason: there's a world outside of America where not every car is an automatic. (I realize many Americans will never see this world, so they don't care.)

Plus, a whole lot of you live in snowy climates. Starting out in 2nd on a slick road is a great way to get moving, if you don't have a big honking SUV with traction control.

Good crap, I'm getting sick of this self-righteous, "Americans are inbred, ethnocentric yahoos that can't see beyond the fence," attitude. OK, we get it, you spent a summer backpacking the European countryside. Congrats, you're now much more worldly than the rest of us and now we all know it.

You sound like you never have, and never will own a passport.

StoPPeRmobile: MindStalker: StoPPeRmobile: eriklou: good_2_go: State_College_Arsonist: My family only had cars with automatic transmissions when I was of driving age, so I never learned to drive a standard transmission. I don't see the point in learning now, as I just bought a new car with a CVT.

Ten Reasons Why You Should Learn To Drive Stick(slideshow)
10.) Fuel economy
9.) A better understanding of your car
8.) You don't have to loan your car to anyone
7.) Prevents distracted driving
6.) Because you want to learn
5.) Be able to drive all cars
4.) Have more control over your car
3.) To be a successful car thief
2.) It's more fun
1.) Just in case

#11 save your brakes.

Brakes are easier and cheaper to replace than a clutch.

You technically don't use the clutch for braking, you use the engine compression for braking. That said, I do wish clutches were easier to replace, but people often do worry a bit too much about wearing down their clutch, they can handle you holding them in the halfway position for a quite a while, its the sudden letting them go when the engine isn't at a matching speed that is the real damaging activity.

Slowing down is what I meant.

You don't use the clutch for slowing down, you use engine for slowing down. You should rev match (up your engine speed to where it will be after the downshift) before entering into the lower gear. Then you when you downshift the clutch does not slow you down, its the engine slowing you down. You shouldn't use the clutch for slowing you down.

Therion: ahem

We used to have an Opal that had the washer fluid pumped by your foot with a device pretty similar to the high beam switch. If you mashed it real hard, you could spray it over the roof of the car.

TNel: It's all instinct and you really do it without thinking. You can hear the engine and know when to shift and your foot does it's job and your hand will auto go to the shifter. I sometimes will try and shift an auto car because it's just something you get used to.

My left foot gets so very itchy when driving automatics.

Subby and TFA need to call their mom to pick them up at Chucky Cheese in her minivan.

I never got to learn stick shift because all the cars I had access to were automatic. My friend offered to teach me in his old civic hatchback, but it got totalled a week later.

dr_blasto: Uncontrolled_Jibe: hbomb1129: I was under the impression that a standard/ transmission was easier to fix than an automatic. Is that just urban legend?

I prefer a standard.

The clutch will normaly need replacement for wear every 100k or so, but the failure rate of the manual gearbox is almost nil. Automatics transmissions are almost another technology in complexity. The typical ASE teechnician is still as clueless abut them as most drivers are. Many so called repair shops just swap with an already rebuilt unit from somewhere else.

/The scam that is Front Wheel Drive is something else entirely

Front wheel drive is good for a compact car; it leaves more interior room and the system is usually lighter than a RWD vehicle's powertrain. The belief some people hold that it somehow provides better traction or whatever is completely wrong. It isn't a scam, however, it is just a system that meets a specific need.

FWD can provide better traction in at least one way I know of: Having the weight of the motor on the drive wheels can definitely provide better traction. I've been driving Subarus for most of the past couple decades, and learned the trick a long time ago to *back* it up a hill it's slipping on. This effective converts it into a rear-motor RWD vehicle, whereby it pushes itself up the hill, instead of trying to pull itself up. It's worked for me when I needed it to.

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: FWD can provide better traction in at least one way I know of: Having the weight of the motor on the drive wheels can definitely provide better traction. I've been driving Subarus for most of the past couple decades, and learned the trick a long time ago to *back* it up a hill it's slipping on. This effective converts it into a rear-motor RWD vehicle, whereby it pushes itself up the hill, instead of trying to pull itself up. It's worked for me when I needed it to.

non locking differentials are the worst thing for snow. FWD or RWD, if you don't have difs that lock up eventually, you've only got 1 wheel drive, and all the power is going straight to the slipping wheel.

/Watching people try and get up snowy hills in ford pickups with live rear axles is always a hoot. They get so confused when they cant get up the hill.

hbomb1129: I was under the impression that a standard/ transmission was easier to fix than an automatic. Is that just urban legend?

I prefer a standard.

Well, given that the standard transmission in most cars these days is an automatic with the manual transmission being the optional, I'd say no.

Manuals are generally easier to fix than automatics and usually cheaper.

Icetech3: My truck is a 98, with roll up windows, no power locks and a 5 speed manual... i LOVE it.. i went shopping recently for a new truck and while i found one with no power anything, i coulnd't find one with a stick... which sucks :( I havn't driving a auto in over 20 years (im 42) and really don't like them

Ran into a similar problem looking for a truck. It is damn near impossible to find a manual because the guys that own them are not the kind of guys that are going to sell them. When I did find one, it was usually a shorty or diesel and never 4X4.

Gave up and got an auto extended cab K1500.

MisterRonbo: A manual transmission is an excellent anti-theft device. Most joyriding punks can't drive a stick.

It's certainly sounding that way, from this thread. MTX drivers should ask for lower theft premiums.

semiotix: Here's the thing I don't get about these "stick pride" threads.

IT'S REALLY NOT THAT HARD TO DRIVE STICK.

For the first hour, you can barely make the car move. For the first day, you're living in fear of every stop sign or 1% incline. For the first week, you can't be absolutely sure you won't stall out at least once in your day. And then it's basically never an issue ever again. In other words, it's statistical noise compared to the process of learning to become a vaguely competent driver, period.

Buy a manual if you want, but for crying out loud, bragging about it is like bragging about your employee discount at JCPenney's. Just possibly useful in certain circumstances, but not a mark of your accomplishment as a human being.

But it's the only thing that makes them special!

saturn badger: StoPPeRmobile: It seems that that there is less control over the car with FWD. Making it harder to fark up while driving in "extreme" situations. It's a hell of a lot easier to get a RWD sideways than a FWD.

/digging FWD in the rain

How do you handle hydroplaning? I know from experience not by letting off the gas.

YES, by letting off the gas.

Hydroplaning is caused by the tire treads not shedding water as fast as they take it in, and that is caused primarily by speed in excess over what's safe for the conditions. The tread ends up riding on a pillow of water, instead of gripping the pavement, and your car becomes a hydroplane without a rudder. (Since you need that contact in order to steer.) So decreasing speed is essential to overcoming hydroplaning, and the very first thing you should do is let off the gas. What you should NOT do, at least not right away, is hit the brakes. If your tires don't have full contact with the road, that's likely to help you lose control. What you want is for the car to slow down, so the treads take in water more slowly, and begin to shed it faster than taking it in, The car will them drop through the pillow of water and regain full contact with the road, returning full control to the driver.

That's a general responce: Get OFF the gas, so the car slows down and regains traction, and avoid the brakes. Specifics vary by situation, and you can find detailed advice online.

I don't know where this "don't let off the gas" thing comes from. It makes no sense to me.

saturn badger: dr_blasto: Front wheel drive is good for a compact car; it leaves more interior room and the system is usually lighter than a RWD vehicle's powertrain. The belief some people hold that it somehow provides better traction or whatever is completely wrong. It isn't a scam, however, it is just a system that meets a specific need.

Just don't do as I was taught and left off the gas when hydroplaning as I was taught in the days before them. It's no fun sliding off the freeway at 50 backwards through the mud on the side of the highway. I imagine the best was it to push in the clutch first.

Sliding through the mud is not hydroplaning. Whatever you did to end up in that situation was unrelated. Note that letting off the gas doesn't *guarantee* recovery from hydroplaning or a skid. It's entirely possible that you were just farked no matter what you did, as often happens. That's a likely consequence of overconfidence: "I'm not skidding right now, so I should be able to go faster!"

I just bought a new car with a manual transmission. It has six farking gears (plus reverse), biatch!

semiotix: IT'S REALLY NOT THAT HARD TO DRIVE STICK.


For the first hour, you can barely make the car move. For the first day, you're living in fear of every stop sign or 1% incline. For the first week, you can't be absolutely sure you won't stall out at least once in your day. And then it's basically never an issue ever again. In other words, it's statistical noise compared to the process of learning to become a vaguely competent driver, period.

The *hard part*, any more, is getting the opportunity to get that first hour.

I've been driving for over half my life now. I have literally not touched a clutch pedal. Never sat in the driver's seat of a vehicle with one.

And I'm someone who wants to learn. Not a massive need to learn. But, something that actually seems like an enjoyable learning experience.

Flying a Cessna sounds fun, too. And, honestly, it would be easier to get a Cessna lesson. That's in the Yellow Pages. NOBODY who owns a manual vehicle (typically they are 'car people' of some stripe if they've gone to the bother of finding one) is willing to let an inexperienced driver learn stick on their vehicle unless it's A) their child or B) someone they're trying to get in bed. No place in the US/Canada has rented them for the last 20 years (because everyone who wants to learn would rent them). Driving schools (rare as they are to start with in the US) don't do that any more.

Leaving spending at least a thousand dollars for a car I can't drive off the lot.

I'm someone who's honestly wanted to learn. And yet I haven't gotten to touch a clutch in 20 years of driving. Someone who isn't even interested is never going to get that first hour.