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(CBS DC)   White House: "It is important not to read too much into one monthly jobs report." Probably not the past 41 monthly reports either   (washington.cbslocal.com) divider line 384
    More: Obvious, White House, Alan Krueger, CBS Radio  
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1421 clicks; posted to Business » on 07 Sep 2012 at 3:16 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-07 04:25:35 PM

Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Fight back from what, why not privatize social security and join the market.

Because most people don't want to pit their whole retirement on how the stock market does.

Myself included.

Why not? You guys keep saying how great the market is and record profits and what not? You can't have it both ways. Sure there are risk, but those that take it gets the reward. Starting a business is a risk.

You're just rambling at this point.


No, you haven't got a response. Like I've said, Dems want to make this issue about class warfare.
 
2012-09-07 04:26:38 PM

Pincy: skullkrusher: Pincy: skullkrusher: Pincy: ignatius_crumbcake: skullkrusher: so your plan is to blame the private sector for not doing stuff that will reduce their profitability?

How do you think we got into this mess? Reducing wages and decreasing the number of employees doing the same amount of work leads to higher corporate profits but also higher unemployment.

Corporate profits are higher than ever right now but wages and hiring have not bounced back. How isn't that the fault of the private sector?

It's not necessarily the fault of the private sector, it's the fault of the trickle-down economic theory that has been put into place over the past decades. The private sector is doing what is best for themselves, which is how it should be.

well lookie here

I'm sorry, did I say something earth-shattering?

no, that was my surprise

So you agree that trickle-down economics has pretty much been a complete failure?


have you ever seen me propose trickle-down as a good idea? Difficulty: your imagination doesn't count

That said, I don't think that trickle-down is really the issue with the current lack of hiring but you were right on with what you said re the private sector
 
2012-09-07 04:26:56 PM

phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Fight back from what, why not privatize social security and join the market.

Because most people don't want to pit their whole retirement on how the stock market does.

Myself included.

Why not? You guys keep saying how great the market is and record profits and what not? You can't have it both ways. Sure there are risk, but those that take it gets the reward. Starting a business is a risk.

You're just rambling at this point.

No, you haven't got a response. Like I've said, Dems want to make this issue about class warfare.


How is any of this crap "Class Warfare"?
 
2012-09-07 04:26:57 PM
graphjam.files.wordpress.com
3.bp.blogspot.com
cdn.theatlantic.com
 
2012-09-07 04:27:18 PM

leviosaurus: thurstonxhowell: leviosaurus: Would you play Russian Roulette with a four barrel gun?

[cdn3.hark.com image 320x240]

GUNS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

erm... a four chamber revolver. That's what I actually said. The filter must've messed it up. Yeah, that's the ticket.


media.liveauctiongroup.net
 
2012-09-07 04:27:21 PM

skullkrusher: You'll have to trust me. shiat is really iffy out there. Companies are not going to start spending a bunch of money on expansion until things become less iffy.


That's the argument for the stimulus.
 
2012-09-07 04:27:53 PM

lennavan: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Fight back from what, why not privatize social security and join the market.

Because most people don't want to pit their whole retirement on how the stock market does.

Myself included.

Why not? You guys keep saying how great the market is and record profits and what not? You can't have it both ways. Sure there are risk, but those that take it gets the reward. Starting a business is a risk.

Holy farking shiat. The stock market is only great if Mrt invests all of his retirement in the stock market? What if he doesn't? Holy farking shiat Mrt I don't think you understand how critical it is you invest all of your money immediately. Corporate profits are apparently hinging on your decision here. That's the way the world works.


No one say you have to do anything.
 
2012-09-07 04:28:31 PM

phreezen: lennavan: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Fight back from what, why not privatize social security and join the market.

Because most people don't want to pit their whole retirement on how the stock market does.

Myself included.

Why not? You guys keep saying how great the market is and record profits and what not? You can't have it both ways. Sure there are risk, but those that take it gets the reward. Starting a business is a risk.

Holy farking shiat. The stock market is only great if Mrt invests all of his retirement in the stock market? What if he doesn't? Holy farking shiat Mrt I don't think you understand how critical it is you invest all of your money immediately. Corporate profits are apparently hinging on your decision here. That's the way the world works.

No one say you have to do anything.


I'm still figuring out how any of this is "class warfare".
 
2012-09-07 04:28:40 PM
I'm just going to leave this here, since some of you farkers can obviously benefit from my political science class rant:

http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/07/news/economy/young-adults-jobs/index. h tml?hpt=hp_t1

This article/television broadcast caught my attention because I do not think CNN is doing the subject full justice. They are commenting on the fact that 400,000 young people (aged 18-24) have dropped out of the "seeking employment" numbers. I do not think that this is an entirely a BAD economic indicator. Here is why: some of those young people are doing things other than look for traditional jobs. Many of them may have given up on finding the job they wanted and started small businesses of their own, which is good for the economy long term. Others may have decided to go to college or trade school full time, meaning that when they re-enter the workforce, they will be more qualified and will be looking for better paying, more skilled jobs, instead of fast food jobs.
Is it sad that not everybody looking for a full time permanent job can not find one? Yes. But just because someone is NOT actively seeking employment does not mean that they have necessarily started living in a tent and foraging for food. There are other explanations. It irritates me when "news" organizations see everything in purely good or bad terms and do not attempt to look at the entire overall picture. This recession has been tough on many people, and I am not disrespecting the fact that many people have looked for work for a very long time, exhausting their resources in the process. I am, however, saying that it has caused people to take different routes, that may not be bad overall. For example, some people that were not planning to retire at all, are doing so because they can not find work. Those people who are eligible for Social Security this year alone amount to up to 19,000 workers per day leaving the workforce. http://pewresearch.org/databank/dailynumber/?NumberID=1150 That's not a completely bad thing, although it will strain the Social Security system. Those are experienced workers leaving high paying jobs, but they are leaving behind positions that can be filled by people not eligible for retirement, those who are 30, 40, or 50 and have families to feed.
There are people who are 30-50 who are giving up and moving out of areas where unemployment is high, like down here in the southern states, and moving to areas where unemployment is lower, in the northern and eastern states where there is a shortage of skilled labor. These are natural adjustments that people make in a bad economy. It may not be what they planned to do with their lives, but it may be their only option, to move to where the work is.
Just this week, NPR was reporting that truck sales are at the highest level in three years. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=160529689 That means that not only are more trucks being built and sold by the big three automakers, but that construction companies (the largest buyer of trucks in the country) are expanding, and buying new equipment. It has not escaped my attention that the "main stream" media outlets are silent on this economic news.
There are also people giving up, who have skills that they decide are marketable as independent businesses. Those people may never have gotten up the nerve to start their own bookkeeping, welding, cake decorating, whatever business, but suddenly, when given no other way to earn a living, they are doing so, and many of them will be successful and become job creators themselves. As long as the government is able to keep the credit markets lose enough that people can obtain small business loans, this trend is bound to continue.
I wish the people responsible for news in this country could look at issues like employment numbers from multiple angles, rather than the just following the most negative aspect of a story. It is not about who is President, it is about giving Americans hope when things will improve for the nation as a whole, so that they do not lose hope if their area is still suffering badly. During the recession of 2001, MSNBC and CNN certainly helped fuel the economic down turn because they started predicting a double dip recession before the smoke had even cleared in New York City. http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/30/news/economy/double_dip_recession/inde x.htm In many cases I think that media themselves are dragging the economic indicators down now because when the do this sort of reporting, it discourages people, makes them stop spending money out of fear, and that in turns shrinks the overall demand and the economy as a whole suffers for it. I am not suggesting that they are motivate purely by politics, but they are motivated by viewers, and as long as we, as Americans, tune in for the bad news, rather than the good, and take the media's word for it that we are getting the whole story, the media will continue to give lopsided economic coverage.
 
2012-09-07 04:29:13 PM

phreezen: lennavan: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Fight back from what, why not privatize social security and join the market.

Because most people don't want to pit their whole retirement on how the stock market does.

Myself included.

Why not? You guys keep saying how great the market is and record profits and what not? You can't have it both ways. Sure there are risk, but those that take it gets the reward. Starting a business is a risk.

Holy farking shiat. The stock market is only great if Mrt invests all of his retirement in the stock market? What if he doesn't? Holy farking shiat Mrt I don't think you understand how critical it is you invest all of your money immediately. Corporate profits are apparently hinging on your decision here. That's the way the world works.

No one say you have to do anything.


Not me, Mrt does though. You said the stock market and corporate profits hinge on where he puts his retirement money. Either he puts all of his money in the stock market, or it tanks. We can't have it both ways!
 
2012-09-07 04:30:57 PM

Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Fight back from what, why not privatize social security and join the market.

Because most people don't want to pit their whole retirement on how the stock market does.

Myself included.

Why not? You guys keep saying how great the market is and record profits and what not? You can't have it both ways. Sure there are risk, but those that take it gets the reward. Starting a business is a risk.

You're just rambling at this point.

No, you haven't got a response. Like I've said, Dems want to make this issue about class warfare.

How is any of this crap "Class Warfare"?


It's not class warfare? What with all those greedy Wall Street/Corporate talk?
 
2012-09-07 04:31:03 PM

gameshowhost: Well my food is ready. Keep up with the lying and deceit, R|R Blowers.


Mommy got your bagel bites and choclate milk ready?
 
2012-09-07 04:31:11 PM

Mrtraveler01: I'm still figuring out how any of this is "class warfare".


You're obviously envious of the pre-rich.
 
2012-09-07 04:31:33 PM

lennavan: phreezen: lennavan: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Fight back from what, why not privatize social security and join the market.

Because most people don't want to pit their whole retirement on how the stock market does.

Myself included.

Why not? You guys keep saying how great the market is and record profits and what not? You can't have it both ways. Sure there are risk, but those that take it gets the reward. Starting a business is a risk.

Holy farking shiat. The stock market is only great if Mrt invests all of his retirement in the stock market? What if he doesn't? Holy farking shiat Mrt I don't think you understand how critical it is you invest all of your money immediately. Corporate profits are apparently hinging on your decision here. That's the way the world works.

No one say you have to do anything.

Not me, Mrt does though. You said the stock market and corporate profits hinge on where he puts his retirement money. Either he puts all of his money in the stock market, or it tanks. We can't have it both ways!


I have to put all my money in the stock market or else it's CLASS WARFARE!!!!!

phreezen told me so!
 
2012-09-07 04:31:35 PM

lennavan: phreezen: lennavan: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Fight back from what, why not privatize social security and join the market.

Because most people don't want to pit their whole retirement on how the stock market does.

Myself included.

Why not? You guys keep saying how great the market is and record profits and what not? You can't have it both ways. Sure there are risk, but those that take it gets the reward. Starting a business is a risk.

Holy farking shiat. The stock market is only great if Mrt invests all of his retirement in the stock market? What if he doesn't? Holy farking shiat Mrt I don't think you understand how critical it is you invest all of your money immediately. Corporate profits are apparently hinging on your decision here. That's the way the world works.

No one say you have to do anything.

Not me, Mrt does though. You said the stock market and corporate profits hinge on where he puts his retirement money. Either he puts all of his money in the stock market, or it tanks. We can't have it both ways!


No I did not
 
2012-09-07 04:32:44 PM

Mrtraveler01: lennavan: phreezen: lennavan: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Fight back from what, why not privatize social security and join the market.

Because most people don't want to pit their whole retirement on how the stock market does.

Myself included.

Why not? You guys keep saying how great the market is and record profits and what not? You can't have it both ways. Sure there are risk, but those that take it gets the reward. Starting a business is a risk.

Holy farking shiat. The stock market is only great if Mrt invests all of his retirement in the stock market? What if he doesn't? Holy farking shiat Mrt I don't think you understand how critical it is you invest all of your money immediately. Corporate profits are apparently hinging on your decision here. That's the way the world works.

No one say you have to do anything.

Not me, Mrt does though. You said the stock market and corporate profits hinge on where he puts his retirement money. Either he puts all of his money in the stock market, or it tanks. We can't have it both ways!

I have to put all my money in the stock market or else it's CLASS WARFARE!!!!!

phreezen told me so!


Where did I say that?
 
2012-09-07 04:33:02 PM

phreezen: lennavan: phreezen: lennavan: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Fight back from what, why not privatize social security and join the market.

Because most people don't want to pit their whole retirement on how the stock market does.

Myself included.

Why not? You guys keep saying how great the market is and record profits and what not? You can't have it both ways.
Sure there are risk, but those that take it gets the reward. Starting a business is a risk.

Holy farking shiat. The stock market is only great if Mrt invests all of his retirement in the stock market? What if he doesn't? Holy farking shiat Mrt I don't think you understand how critical it is you invest all of your money immediately. Corporate profits are apparently hinging on your decision here. That's the way the world works.

No one say you have to do anything.

Not me, Mrt does though. You said the stock market and corporate profits hinge on where he puts his retirement money. Either he puts all of his money in the stock market, or it tanks. We can't have it both ways!

No I did not


It's actually in your post.
 
2012-09-07 04:33:12 PM

skullkrusher: You think that a default on Greek or Spanish or wherever debt would only impact holders of that debt?


It would have some ripples, but if you're an American company producing things for American consumers, not really a worry unless you get all your materials from Spain and Greece. And if you're an American company producing things some of which are sold in those places, those markets are already not doing well, and in the case of Greece it's not even a very big market. And in any case, whatever they do has little to do with what's to be done in the US.

skullkrusher: . is there something going on that could see the closure of a major strait somewhere? I


Iran isn't exactly getting jumpy over the strait of Hormuz....
 
2012-09-07 04:33:16 PM

phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Fight back from what, why not privatize social security and join the market.

Because most people don't want to pit their whole retirement on how the stock market does.

Myself included.

Why not? You guys keep saying how great the market is and record profits and what not? You can't have it both ways. Sure there are risk, but those that take it gets the reward. Starting a business is a risk.

You're just rambling at this point.

No, you haven't got a response. Like I've said, Dems want to make this issue about class warfare.

How is any of this crap "Class Warfare"?

It's not class warfare? What with all those greedy Wall Street/Corporate talk?


So complaining about how they're taking advantage of the tax code in order to pay less taxes than me is "Class Warfare"?
 
2012-09-07 04:34:15 PM

soy_bomb: coeyagi: Congrats, those bills mostly legitimately rape the environment. Next?

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 512x325]


Saying those bills are mostly about deregulating to enhance profits and not jobs is moving goalposts?

/the others are tax cuts for millionaires job creators, right?
 
2012-09-07 04:35:34 PM

Swagulus: Hmmm...A lot more "B B But Bush!!!!"'s in this thread than normal...You guys are gettin lazy. Time to come up with some new talking points.


So then the question "Are we doing better than we were 4 years ago?" is now not a valid question when the answer is yes?
 
2012-09-07 04:35:37 PM

skullkrusher: That said, I don't think that trickle-down is really the issue with the current lack of hiring but you were right on with what you said re the private sector


Yes, it is. If more people had more money to spend then demand would be greater and the private sector would be creating more jobs. Trickle-down has created an economic environment which keeps this from happening.

As far as what I said about the private sector, it's economics 101, that's the way Capitalism works. But I'm not saying I think we should be a 100% Capitalist economy. I think government has an important role to play in the economy and that role has been abused by the 1% over the past decades. It's time to take it back for the rest of us.
 
2012-09-07 04:37:05 PM

Pincy: Yes, it is. If more people had more money to spend then demand would be greater and the private sector would be creating more jobs. Trickle-down has created an economic environment which keeps this from happening.


explain
 
2012-09-07 04:38:18 PM

Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Fight back from what, why not privatize social security and join the market.

Because most people don't want to pit their whole retirement on how the stock market does.

Myself included.

Why not? You guys keep saying how great the market is and record profits and what not? You can't have it both ways. Sure there are risk, but those that take it gets the reward. Starting a business is a risk.

You're just rambling at this point.

No, you haven't got a response. Like I've said, Dems want to make this issue about class warfare.

How is any of this crap "Class Warfare"?

It's not class warfare? What with all those greedy Wall Street/Corporate talk?

So complaining about how they're taking advantage of the tax code in order to pay less taxes than me is "Class Warfare"?


This is about taxes now? Rich should pay more?
 
2012-09-07 04:38:29 PM

Mrtraveler01: I'm still figuring out how any of this is "class warfare".


Class warfare is what we will have (eventually) in this country if two key rapepublican policy outcomes continue: 1) increasing the wealth gap, and 2) making sure everybody can buy as many guns as they want.
 
2012-09-07 04:38:31 PM

metztli: The only way we will ever really see low unemployment again is if we make huge changes to our way of thinking about work and consumption. Productivity increases in the past decades have basically meant that fewer people working are able to meet the needs of a larger population, and that trend will only continue to increase as automation gets better and more jobs are able to be accomplished by fewer people still.

What will happen when there is literally no reason to have a human being driving a truck, flying a plane, running a train, piloting a boat, etc.? What will happen when a huge warehouse can be managed by a tiny team of humans? What will happen when pharmacists, medical technicians and even doctors get replaced by automated systems? This stuff is happening now, and will be happening faster and faster sooner rather than later so we need to come up with plans now, need to adjust our expectations now, and need to get ready for the future now.



funny how 0bama whined that we don't have job growth due to ATMs and automatic ticket machines at airports...

oh wait, were you serious?

isn't it easier to just outlaw technology and progress?
 
2012-09-07 04:39:23 PM

phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Fight back from what, why not privatize social security and join the market.

Because most people don't want to pit their whole retirement on how the stock market does.

Myself included.

Why not? You guys keep saying how great the market is and record profits and what not? You can't have it both ways. Sure there are risk, but those that take it gets the reward. Starting a business is a risk.

You're just rambling at this point.

No, you haven't got a response. Like I've said, Dems want to make this issue about class warfare.

How is any of this crap "Class Warfare"?

It's not class warfare? What with all those greedy Wall Street/Corporate talk?

So complaining about how they're taking advantage of the tax code in order to pay less taxes than me is "Class Warfare"?

This is about taxes now? Rich should pay more?


So I'm confused then. What did I say that has you biatching about "Class Warfare"?
 
2012-09-07 04:39:34 PM
i predict that if Romney wins his first budget will be the largest in US history
 
2012-09-07 04:41:13 PM

Corvus: Swagulus: Hmmm...A lot more "B B But Bush!!!!"'s in this thread than normal...You guys are gettin lazy. Time to come up with some new talking points.

So then the question "Are we doing better than we were 4 years ago?" is now not a valid question when the answer is yes?


The answer "yes" is a subjective one. For example, 4 years ago you had a massive hemorage, and the doctor said you'd be up and around by now. However, you are still in critical but stable condition. Are you better? Yes. Would you get a second opinion? Probably.
 
2012-09-07 04:43:18 PM
s/7314224/79226024#c79226024" target="_blank">WhyteRaven74: It would have some ripples, but if you're an American company producing things for American consumers, not really a worry unless you get all your materials from Spain and Greece.

I'm sorry but that is just way too nearsighted. You know who are huge holders of Spanish and Greek debt? Banks. You know what happens when counterparties default on the assets held by banks? 2007. What do banks do? They offer credit. Can you see how massive writedowns of sovereign debt would be a bad thing for the economy of the world? Both in terms of corporations and consumers? Since when are corporations limited to US shores in terms of customers, anyway?

WhyteRaven74: Iran isn't exactly getting jumpy over the strait of Hormuz....

if you were a company which relied heavily on oil or gas prices staying under control, would you bet several hundred million dollars on WhyteRaven74's nonchalance regarding Iran? I wouldn't.
 
2012-09-07 04:43:27 PM
H. Res. 72 - (no action) This bill tells major departments to basically audit themselves and do a book report on it. There is no action taken by anyone involved beyond a paperwork drill.
H.R. 872 - (no action) This bill removes authority by both the state and the EPA to prevent people from spraying pesticides into navigable waters.
H.R. 910 - (no action) This bill eliminates the ability of the EPA to control greenhouse gasses for purposes of mitigating climate change.
H.J. Res. 37 - (voted down by Senate) This bill eliminates Net Neutrality
H.R. 2018 - (no action) This bill effectively transfers all control of water pollution to the states.
H.R. 1315 - (no action) This bill allows the two Dodd-Frank regulatory agencies to overrule eachother when it comes to striking down regulations. It also creates piles of paperwork when creating new regulations. It also vaporizes the FHA home lone program.
H.R. 2587 - (no action) This bill prevents the NLRB from ordering any employer to close, relocate, or transfer employment for any reason.
H.R. 2401 - (no action) This bill guts the Clean Air Act, while adding roadblocks to most EPA programs.
H.R. 2681 - (no action) This bill exempts the cement industry from the National Emission Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants and from trash incineration hazardous materials standards
H.R. 2250 - (no action) This bill eliminates a swath of hazardous material standards and hamstrings potential future replacement of these regulations
H.R. 2273 - (no action) This bill allows states to let coal power plants dump their waste in landfills
H.R. 3094 - (no action) This bill lets the NLRB determine the unit allowed to collectively bargain, rather than organization by company, shop, plant, etc.
H.R. 3010 - (no action) This bill requires a huge amount of paperwork drills to be run before executive branch rules changes can be enacted
H.R. 527 - (no action) This bill expands the RFA to tribal organizations.
H.R. 10 - (no action) This bill requires every single regulatory change to pass through Congress first.
H.R. 1633 - (no action) This bill prevents the EPA from regulating any air quality standard relating to particles greater than 2.5 micrometers.
H.R. 1837 - (no action) This bill adds sturgeon to the San Joaquin River.
H.R. 2087 - (no action) This bill removes all deed restrictions to a 31.6 acre parcel of land in Accomack County, Virginia.
H.R. 4078 - (no action) This bill prohibits any significant regulatory action until unemployment is less than 6%.
H.R. 9 - (no action) This bill is a tax cut to small businesses (defined solely by number of employees) equal to 50% of their wages paid out to non-owners or 50% of wages paid out to family members.
H.R. 436 - (no action) This bill repeals an excise tax on medical devices and lets HSA/flex account funds be spent on OTC drugs.

Halfway there!
 
2012-09-07 04:43:55 PM

Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Fight back from what, why not privatize social security and join the market.

Because most people don't want to pit their whole retirement on how the stock market does.

Myself included.

Why not? You guys keep saying how great the market is and record profits and what not? You can't have it both ways. Sure there are risk, but those that take it gets the reward. Starting a business is a risk.

You're just rambling at this point.

No, you haven't got a response. Like I've said, Dems want to make this issue about class warfare.

How is any of this crap "Class Warfare"?

It's not class warfare? What with all those greedy Wall Street/Corporate talk?

So complaining about how they're taking advantage of the tax code in order to pay less taxes than me is "Class Warfare"?

This is about taxes now? Rich should pay more?

So I'm confused then. What did I say that has you biatching about "Class Warfare"?


I noticed you won't answer any questions except to try and divert to new questions. Went from Wall Street to taxes. This isn't about you. This is the Dems attack on Wall Street, Profits and then blame them. I started this conversation with another person when you jumped in.
 
2012-09-07 04:44:29 PM

skullkrusher: Pincy: Yes, it is. If more people had more money to spend then demand would be greater and the private sector would be creating more jobs. Trickle-down has created an economic environment which keeps this from happening.

explain


This is an overly simplified explanation but it should get you in the ballpark of understanding why trickle down does not work. Cutting taxes so that those at the top see the benefit does not benefit those who would buy things. If the poeple don't have money to buy, there is no demand. If there is no demand then business don't need to increase production. If they don't need to increase production they don't invest in capital which includes hiring workers. Instead those at the top sit on their money or invest overseas.

Supply side economics does not work, growth has be be demand driven.
 
2012-09-07 04:45:06 PM

skullkrusher: s/7314224/79226024#c79226024" target="_blank">WhyteRaven74: It would have some ripples, but if you're an American company producing things for American consumers, not really a worry unless you get all your materials from Spain and Greece.

I'm sorry but that is just way too nearsighted. You know who are huge holders of Spanish and Greek debt? Banks. You know what happens when counterparties default on the assets held by banks? 2007. What do banks do? They offer credit. Can you see how massive writedowns of sovereign debt would be a bad thing for the economy of the world? Both in terms of corporations and consumers? Since when are corporations limited to US shores in terms of customers, anyway?

WhyteRaven74: Iran isn't exactly getting jumpy over the strait of Hormuz....

if you were a company which relied heavily on oil or gas prices staying under control, would you bet several hundred million dollars on WhyteRaven74's nonchalance regarding Iran? I wouldn't.


I woildn't bet on Whyte having bathed on any given Saturday night, but I'm a cynic.
 
2012-09-07 04:45:07 PM

I_C_Weener: ignatius_crumbcake: [img809.imageshack.us image 564x352]


Just out of curiosity...why is unemployement still over 8% then?  Maybe job creation isn't keeping up with job losses...or something else is at work here....  hmmm.


You frigging waste of DNA: the republicons in Congress failed to pass a very generous to small business (actually a previous republicon idea) jobs act because they wanted the country and our economy to fail. They are treasonist bastards and should be lined up on a wall the pasted with rotten fruit. Yes, something else is working here you idiot - the deliberate destruction of our economy by the republicons.
 
2012-09-07 04:45:52 PM

TheDumbBlonde: Corvus: Swagulus: Hmmm...A lot more "B B But Bush!!!!"'s in this thread than normal...You guys are gettin lazy. Time to come up with some new talking points.

So then the question "Are we doing better than we were 4 years ago?" is now not a valid question when the answer is yes?

The answer "yes" is a subjective one. For example, 4 years ago you had a massive hemorage, and the doctor said you'd be up and around by now. However, you are still in critical but stable condition. Are you better? Yes. Would you get a second opinion? Probably.


Look who doesn't know what "subjective" means!


/"better" is "better", I think you are looknig for "relative"
 
2012-09-07 04:45:55 PM

phreezen: This is the Dems attack on Wall Street, Profits and then blame them.


So all you got is hyperbole with nothing to back it up?
 
2012-09-07 04:46:39 PM

Mrtraveler01: phreezen: This is the Dems attack on Wall Street, Profits and then blame them.

So all you got is hyperbole with nothing to back it up?


More questions? Try answering one.
 
2012-09-07 04:46:56 PM

WhyteRaven74: Caterpillar which has in place a freeze on wage increases while reporting record profits, hire back people that were let go.


I have family working there and you are wrong. The wage freeze ended 2 years ago and a number of the people let go during the recession have been called back.
 
2012-09-07 04:47:42 PM

phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: Fight back from what, why not privatize social security and join the market.

Because most people don't want to pit their whole retirement on how the stock market does.

Myself included.

Why not? You guys keep saying how great the market is and record profits and what not? You can't have it both ways. Sure there are risk, but those that take it gets the reward. Starting a business is a risk.

You're just rambling at this point.

No, you haven't got a response. Like I've said, Dems want to make this issue about class warfare.

How is any of this crap "Class Warfare"?

It's not class warfare? What with all those greedy Wall Street/Corporate talk?

So complaining about how they're taking advantage of the tax code in order to pay less taxes than me is "Class Warfare"?

This is about taxes now? Rich should pay more?

So I'm confused then. What did I say that has you biatching about "Class Warfare"?

I noticed you won't answer any questions except to try and divert to new questions. Went from Wall Street to taxes. This isn't about you. This is the Dems attack on Wall Street, Profits and then blame them. I started this conversation with another person when you jumped in.


What a class warrior might say:

Republican Ronald Reagan supported taxing capital gains as ordinary income - they are now taxed much less - and supported higher taxes on corporations. Defending his tax reform proposal in 1985, Reagan said:

We're going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that have allowed some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying 10 percent of his salary, and that's crazy. It's time we stopped it....

What we're trying to move against is institutionalized unfairness. We want to see that everyone pays their fair share, and no one gets a free ride. Our reasons? It's good for society when we all know that no one is manipulating the system to their advantage because they're rich and powerful. But it's also good for society when everyone pays something, that everyone makes a contribution.


Read more at http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2011/10/07/7-Top-Republicans-Who -Taxed-the-Super-Rich.aspx#LgfipKcfKW7I7jTR.99
 
2012-09-07 04:47:45 PM

jst3p: This is an overly simplified explanation but it should get you in the ballpark of understanding why trickle down does not work. Cutting taxes so that those at the top see the benefit does not benefit those who would buy things. If the poeple don't have money to buy, there is no demand. If there is no demand then business don't need to increase production. If they don't need to increase production they don't invest in capital which includes hiring workers. Instead those at the top sit on their money or invest overseas.


Put another way - The reason restaurants are not hiring more waitresses isn't because their taxes are too high. It's because there are no farking customers eating there. You could cut their taxes to zero, without people eating there they aren't gonna hire.
 
2012-09-07 04:47:46 PM

MartinD-35: I_C_Weener: ignatius_crumbcake: [img809.imageshack.us image 564x352]


Just out of curiosity...why is unemployement still over 8% then?  Maybe job creation isn't keeping up with job losses...or something else is at work here....  hmmm.

You frigging waste of DNA: the republicons in Congress failed to pass a very generous to small business (actually a previous republicon idea) jobs act because they wanted the country and our economy to fail. They are treasonist bastards and should be lined up on a wall the pasted with rotten fruit. Yes, something else is working here you idiot - the deliberate destruction of our economy by the republicons.


LOL. You just called out one of the brightest and most reasonable people on Fark.
 
2012-09-07 04:48:16 PM

WhyteRaven74: And in any case, whatever they do has little to do with what's to be done in the US.


Oh, bullshiat again. Why should anyone listen to anything you have to say when you get proven wrong time and time again, and won't even acknowledge it?
 
2012-09-07 04:48:41 PM

phreezen: Mrtraveler01: phreezen: This is the Dems attack on Wall Street, Profits and then blame them.

So all you got is hyperbole with nothing to back it up?

More questions? Try answering one.


Which one do you want me to answer first?
 
2012-09-07 04:49:00 PM

Saiga410: I have family working there and you are wrong.


Par for the course for that guy. He'll keep blithely posting on though
 
2012-09-07 04:49:55 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: funny how 0bama whined that we don't have job growth due to ATMs and automatic ticket machines at airports...

oh wait, were you serious?

isn't it easier to just outlaw technology and progress?



ZOMG Bloomberg Business Week is in the tank for Obama!!1!

www.businessweek.com

/Obama didn't suggest using his time machine to reverse progress as a solution
 
MFL
2012-09-07 04:51:30 PM
King Something And even then, not really, since their filibuster-proof majority included the Blue Dog Democrats from flyover country and Joe "I'm an 'independent' and totally not in the GOP's corner despite me running for their party's presidential nomination in 2008, oh and I want you to hamstring the health care reform bill or else I'm gonna side with the GOP and vote against cloture" Lieberman

waaaaawawawaaaaaa

So.....the greatest orator on earth who has a spine of steel, a heart of gold, and ice in his veins is making excuses about not having a filibuster proof majority?

A. Reagan got his entire agenda passed in his first term with only one majority in congress.
B. Clinton put his stamp on the republican agenda with the GOP holding both houses of congress and got to reap the benefits politically from their success.
C. Hell even W. at least got budgets passed and war funding with neither house in congress and a 30% approval rating after 2007 and 2008.

I've never seen a president and a party cry so much about not having a "true" filibuster proof majority in congress. No farking president ever gets this! (besides Carter who was almost as bad as Obama) What more does he farking want?

Obama can deliver one speech....the same speech.... better than anyone in the world. But that's as far as his talents take him. When the crowd is gone and the camera's are off, he's usually the second smallest person in the board room(if Jay Carney is present) during negotiations.

There is nobody in charge in that whitehouse. It's a clusterfark and congress knows it. The gridlock we see right now is nothing more than inmates running the asylum because the warden wears a dress.
 
2012-09-07 04:52:04 PM

shastacola:

What a class warrior might say:

Republican Ronald Reagan supported taxing capital gains as ordinary income - they are now taxed much less - and supported higher taxes on corporations. Defending his tax reform proposal in 1985, Reagan said:

We're going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that have allowed some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying 10 percent of his salary, and that's crazy. It's time we stopped it....

What we're trying to move against is institutionalized unfairn ...


This is why you won't get a fair tax. Peter Schiff talks to DNC goersLink
 
2012-09-07 04:52:31 PM

BigJake: Why should anyone listen to anything you have to say when you get proven wrong time and time again, and won't even acknowledge it?


So how would Greece defaulting on its debt affect a company in America that produces goods in American primarily for American consumers? Show your work.
 
2012-09-07 04:53:37 PM

TheDumbBlonde: Corvus: Swagulus: Hmmm...A lot more "B B But Bush!!!!"'s in this thread than normal...You guys are gettin lazy. Time to come up with some new talking points.

So then the question "Are we doing better than we were 4 years ago?" is now not a valid question when the answer is yes?

The answer "yes" is a subjective one. For example, 4 years ago you had a massive hemorage, and the doctor said you'd be up and around by now. However, you are still in critical but stable condition. Are you better? Yes. Would you get a second opinion? Probably.


Not when the second opinion is "have another hemorrhage".
 
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