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(Debka Files)   In A.D. 2012. War was beginning   (debka.com) divider line 208
    More: Scary, Syrians, foreign intervention, Prime Minister of Turkey, Israeli intelligence, Erdogan, Syrian rebels, Free Syrian Army, brigades  
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36911 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Sep 2012 at 10:13 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-07 12:31:01 PM  

Carousel Beast: Magorn: In 2002 It must have seemed like such a good idea to Wolfowitz and his cronies to take out Saddam as the perennial thorn in Israel's side.

What they failed to realize is that Saddam's ruthless but secular Ba'athist rule was the only thing keeping a lot of the local would-be Jihadis in check. They further dailed to realize that after Wolfie and the boys made threatening noises towards Syria (back when Iraq looked it would the cake-walk they promised) That Assad senior, also a secular Ba'athist dictator would panic and cut a deal with all HIS imprisoned would-be Sa'alfist jihadis that he'd let them out of jail if they promised to pack up their guns and bombs and take their Jihadi zeal across the border to Iraq to fight the Americans.

The problem is, that war is over, and Iraq is really not a welcoming or safe place for those guys now, so a lot of those Jihadis got homesick, and took thier heavily armed, combat-tested selves back across the border and set thier sights on taking down the younger Assad.

And Israel, which expected to have a pacified pro-western Iraq and a weakened Syria on its borders now faces the prospects of bordering a de-stablized Iraq, A Syria controlled by violent , radical hard-line Salafists, an Egypt run by the Muslim Brotherhood, and a resurgent (iraninan-fueled) Hezbollah in Lebanon.


If only there was a book that ISraelis consider sacred that included a warning about sowing the wind and reaping the whirlwind

It truly amazes me the lengths to which antisemitics will go to blame anything and everything on Israel.

Good lord, do you curse Jews when your breakfast cereal turns soggy?


There really should be an expansion of 'Godwin's Law' to include people who fling out an accusation of anti-Semitism any time someone else criticizes Israel's actions or questions their motives.

/I'll start: GODWIN! - carousel beast loses the discussion by disqualification.
 
2012-09-07 12:33:32 PM  

Magorn: CygnusDarius: Weaver95: War. War never changes.


[fc05.deviantart.net image 600x627]
War has changed. It's no longer about nations, ideologies, or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles fought by mercenaries and machines. War - and its consumption of life - has become a well-oiled machine. War has changed. ID-tagged soldiers carry ID-tagged weapons, use ID-tagged gear. Nanomachines inside their bodies enhance and regulate their abilities. Genetic control. Information control. Emotion control. Battlefield control. Everything is monitored and kept under control. War has changed. The age of deterrence has become the age of control... All in the name of averting catastrophe from weapons of mass destruction. And he who controls the battlefield... controls history. War has changed. When the battlefield is under total control... War becomes routine.

One of the Best Sci-fi war novels I've read in a long time, probably because the author is ex-three inital agency and was in Afghanistan in late 2001:
[danieljeffreygoodman.files.wordpress.com image 372x600]


Thanks for the tip, just ordered it
 
2012-09-07 12:33:33 PM  

BLeap: Weaver95: War. War never changes.

Blast you. Now I want to go replay that game.


"Dr. Trahn is diagnosing this conversation with a severe lack of caps."

/I about pissed myself when that came up as a dialogue option.
//FNV FTW!
 
2012-09-07 12:41:17 PM  
Heron: I'm not writing to defend Assad, but bombings like this were pretty rare before we started teaching the rebels how to build, conceal, and deploy this manner of explosive. In fact before, say, this May or June, I hadn't heard of a car-bombing in Syria for 20 years or more

Who is the we here? You know that knoeledge wasn't uncommon in Syria, given how those were tactics they taught to hezebullah.

Car bombing was unheard of before because of a very locked down police state.
 
2012-09-07 12:46:36 PM  
Galloping Galoshes: Heron: How would Hezbollah, an organization primarily concerned with and operating out of Lebanon justify attacking Turkey over Syria; a widely despised ex-invader? What populations in Turkey would help and hide them as they carried out such a campaign? How would its international supporters react to it attacking a stable, prosperous, Islamic democracy in support of a godless, Baathist(the Baathists were originally a communist movement, btw) dictatorship? For that matter, why would Iran want to attack Turkey when Turkey has been one of the central voices among the rising states (Brazil, Turkey, China, ect) defending Iran's right to a peaceful nuclear program?

In general I agree with your analysis, but I could see Hezbollah doing something to oppose Turkey in this. They would be defending a funding source, and although Turkey is islamic, it is also generally secular and a historic supporter of Israel. The fact that an opponent is Islamic has never been a bar to attacks in the past; I think you overestimate the importance of this fact, particularly in the case of Turkey. The question is, what would Hezbollah have to gain by attacking Turkey? However, I still question the report that is the basis of all this speculation. I have my doubts that Turkey has taken any steps to organize the Syrian rebels.


What is more probable or possible is another front by proxy. The Kurdish separatists in northern Iraq and in the general area love to make cross border attacks against Turkey. The generally have the cover of the local kurd populations. This could get really messy if folsk decided to play the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
 
2012-09-07 01:03:20 PM  

kindms: What is more probable or possible is another front by proxy. The Kurdish separatists in northern Iraq and in the general area love to make cross border attacks against Turkey.


You mean, like today?

An Iranian-supported organization sponsoring attacks on Turkey. If there were a coherent Iranian opposition, I could see Turkey helping them. Absent that, I see Turkey doing more with Israel to redirect Hezbollah's energy.
 
2012-09-07 01:05:50 PM  

gopher321: War; What is it good for. Absolutely nothing. Uh-huh.


Good God, y'all.
 
2012-09-07 01:06:15 PM  
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-09-07 01:14:26 PM  
War is a constant. What we should do is toss in lots of small arms and ammo to encourage these "people" to kill each other.

War IS good for something. It also reduces the world population.
 
2012-09-07 01:23:37 PM  
jmz.iki.fi

An oldie but a goodie. Also, anyone have that anigif mashup of All Your Base and the Homeland Security infographic? That was one of Fark Photoshop Contest's greatest moments.
 
2012-09-07 01:41:38 PM  

give me doughnuts: AcneVulgaris: Eapoe6: If you had a friend who kept getting in fights, how many fights would have to take place before you took a look at your friend's behavior?

If your friend is jewish, that would be anti-semitism.

If you had a friend that kept getting attacked for simply existing, even after he repeatedly thrashed his attackers, wouldn't you think there is something wrong with his attackers?


Yes, but my friend is not getting attacked for simply existing, they are getting attacked for stealing land.
 
2012-09-07 01:48:30 PM  
This thread is a nice walk down memory lane.
 
2012-09-07 01:48:31 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: give me doughnuts: AcneVulgaris: Eapoe6: If you had a friend who kept getting in fights, how many fights would have to take place before you took a look at your friend's behavior?

If your friend is jewish, that would be anti-semitism.

If you had a friend that kept getting attacked for simply existing, even after he repeatedly thrashed his attackers, wouldn't you think there is something wrong with his attackers?

Yes, but my friend is not getting attacked for simply existing, they are getting attacked for stealing land.


That is why all those other Arab nations attacked Egypt and Jordan for not giving Palestenians a state between 48-67.

And there are all those attacks against Jordan for not giving Palestenians citizenship since 67.

And that is why all the countries around the world are mad at Egypt, Syria, Lebannon, jordan, Iarq etc for stealing all the land of jews who lived there and were since kicked out.

That is why after Israel gave all the land back to Egypt the country stopped having almost weekly "death to Israel" chants.
 
2012-09-07 01:51:37 PM  
Debka = Neocon Jizzfest.
 
2012-09-07 02:02:54 PM  
Sigh!

If it's not Iran, it's Syria and if not them, it's Turkey or Iraq. Someone is going to start lobbing nukes eventually and it's probably Israel. They're not known for just sitting on their hands and by now, after decades of being shot at, I figure someone is going to have had enough and decide it's worth the risk of pi$$ing off the global community by wiping out much of the Middle East.

Besides, the Muslim nations have managed to pi$$ off everyone they come in contact with for the past 30 years. Even themselves.
 
2012-09-07 02:03:43 PM  
AYB will never die!

Also for some reason I can never separate it from travel guy

upload.wikimedia.org

I guess they hit at around the same time so thinking of one always makes me think of the other.

/not giving that link (source) dignity of a response
 
2012-09-07 02:09:17 PM  
i512.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-07 02:11:51 PM  

Rik01: If it's not Iran, it's Syria and if not them, it's Turkey or Iraq. Someone is going to start lobbing nukes eventually and it's probably Israel. They're not known for just sitting on their hands and by now, after decades of being shot at, I figure someone is going to have had enough and decide it's worth the risk of pi$$ing off the global community by wiping out much of the Middle East.


Except for ruring the first gulf War when they did that.

And you reasoning abotu Israel being the first to lob a nuke totally makes sense seeing as they have had it fro some 40 years now and haven't used it.
 
2012-09-07 02:13:02 PM  

give me doughnuts: AcneVulgaris: Eapoe6: If you had a friend who kept getting in fights, how many fights would have to take place before you took a look at your friend's behavior?

If your friend is jewish, that would be anti-semitism.

If you had a friend that kept getting attacked for simply existing, even after he repeatedly thrashed his attackers, wouldn't you think there is something wrong with his attackers?


If he were encamped in the middle of his attacker's living room, claimed the bathroom, and drove them out of their kitchen, no.
 
2012-09-07 02:16:36 PM  
 
2012-09-07 02:17:12 PM  
War.
 
2012-09-07 02:21:37 PM  
One of the reasons these Israel/Palestine debates seem to go on and on is that the Palestine-supporting side is arguing at a far lower intellectual level than the Israel-supporting side. Probably due to Arabs having a lower IQ on average then Jews.
 
2012-09-07 02:23:06 PM  
Where the hell is "N. Israel"? I was under the impression it was all one country.
 
2012-09-07 02:25:26 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Where the hell is "N. Israel"? I was under the impression it was all one country.


All I know is the Sinai is Israel's Mexico.
 
2012-09-07 02:34:38 PM  
nong shrim nong shrim

ramenreview.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-09-07 02:34:49 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: give me doughnuts: AcneVulgaris: Eapoe6: If you had a friend who kept getting in fights, how many fights would have to take place before you took a look at your friend's behavior?

If your friend is jewish, that would be anti-semitism.

If you had a friend that kept getting attacked for simply existing, even after he repeatedly thrashed his attackers, wouldn't you think there is something wrong with his attackers?

Yes, but my friend is not getting attacked for simply existing, they are getting attacked for stealing land.


Stealing land is how every nation starts, so that's about the same thing as killing someone for existing. Though I think they're both valid, also "they're assholes" works for me, too. I'm getting older so this is my venture into a more conservative mindset.
 
2012-09-07 02:37:37 PM  
getting my hopes up subby
 
2012-09-07 02:40:46 PM  

StaleCoffee: Slaves2Darkness: give me doughnuts: AcneVulgaris: Eapoe6: If you had a friend who kept getting in fights, how many fights would have to take place before you took a look at your friend's behavior?

If your friend is jewish, that would be anti-semitism.

If you had a friend that kept getting attacked for simply existing, even after he repeatedly thrashed his attackers, wouldn't you think there is something wrong with his attackers?

Yes, but my friend is not getting attacked for simply existing, they are getting attacked for stealing land.

Stealing land is how every nation starts, so that's about the same thing as killing someone for existing. Though I think they're both valid, also "they're assholes" works for me, too. I'm getting older so this is my venture into a more conservative mindset.


Get a little older still, and "They're assholes" is about the only real answer.
 
2012-09-07 02:48:13 PM  

JustTheTip: Carousel Beast: Magorn: In 2002 It must have seemed like such a good idea to Wolfowitz and his cronies to take out Saddam as the perennial thorn in Israel's side.

What they failed to realize is that Saddam's ruthless but secular Ba'athist rule was the only thing keeping a lot of the local would-be Jihadis in check. They further dailed to realize that after Wolfie and the boys made threatening noises towards Syria (back when Iraq looked it would the cake-walk they promised) That Assad senior, also a secular Ba'athist dictator would panic and cut a deal with all HIS imprisoned would-be Sa'alfist jihadis that he'd let them out of jail if they promised to pack up their guns and bombs and take their Jihadi zeal across the border to Iraq to fight the Americans.

The problem is, that war is over, and Iraq is really not a welcoming or safe place for those guys now, so a lot of those Jihadis got homesick, and took thier heavily armed, combat-tested selves back across the border and set thier sights on taking down the younger Assad.

And Israel, which expected to have a pacified pro-western Iraq and a weakened Syria on its borders now faces the prospects of bordering a de-stablized Iraq, A Syria controlled by violent , radical hard-line Salafists, an Egypt run by the Muslim Brotherhood, and a resurgent (iraninan-fueled) Hezbollah in Lebanon.


If only there was a book that ISraelis consider sacred that included a warning about sowing the wind and reaping the whirlwind

It truly amazes me the lengths to which antisemitics will go to blame anything and everything on Israel.

Good lord, do you curse Jews when your breakfast cereal turns soggy?

There really should be an expansion of 'Godwin's Law' to include people who fling out an accusation of anti-Semitism any time someone else criticizes Israel's actions or questions their motives.

/I'll start: GODWIN! - carousel beast loses the discussion by disqualification.


My suggestion: Tatsuma Corollary
 
2012-09-07 02:57:29 PM  
DEBKAfile? Is this like the Israeli WND?
 
2012-09-07 02:58:40 PM  

JustTheTip: Carousel Beast: Magorn: In 2002 It must have seemed like such a good idea to Wolfowitz and his cronies to take out Saddam as the perennial thorn in Israel's side.

What they failed to realize is that Saddam's ruthless but secular Ba'athist rule was the only thing keeping a lot of the local would-be Jihadis in check. They further dailed to realize that after Wolfie and the boys made threatening noises towards Syria (back when Iraq looked it would the cake-walk they promised) That Assad senior, also a secular Ba'athist dictator would panic and cut a deal with all HIS imprisoned would-be Sa'alfist jihadis that he'd let them out of jail if they promised to pack up their guns and bombs and take their Jihadi zeal across the border to Iraq to fight the Americans.

The problem is, that war is over, and Iraq is really not a welcoming or safe place for those guys now, so a lot of those Jihadis got homesick, and took thier heavily armed, combat-tested selves back across the border and set thier sights on taking down the younger Assad.

And Israel, which expected to have a pacified pro-western Iraq and a weakened Syria on its borders now faces the prospects of bordering a de-stablized Iraq, A Syria controlled by violent , radical hard-line Salafists, an Egypt run by the Muslim Brotherhood, and a resurgent (iraninan-fueled) Hezbollah in Lebanon.


If only there was a book that ISraelis consider sacred that included a warning about sowing the wind and reaping the whirlwind

It truly amazes me the lengths to which antisemitics will go to blame anything and everything on Israel.

Good lord, do you curse Jews when your breakfast cereal turns soggy?

There really should be an expansion of 'Godwin's Law' to include people who fling out an accusation of anti-Semitism any time someone else criticizes Israel's actions or questions their motives.

/I'll start: GODWIN! - carousel beast loses the discussion by disqualification.


I think there should be an expansion of Godwin's Law to cover anyone flinging out an accusation of Godwin's Law any time someone disagrees with someone else.

I'll start. GODWIN- this whole thread.

/head explodes
 
2012-09-07 02:59:00 PM  

NobleHam: DEBKAfile? Is this like the Israeli WND?


.WND = WINDOWS FILE?
 
2012-09-07 03:10:19 PM  

mark12A: Move every Zig Yid!

For Great Justice Jewstice!

 
2012-09-07 03:21:14 PM  

God-is-a-Taco: AYB will never die!

Also for some reason I can never separate it from travel guy

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x207]

I guess they hit at around the same time so thinking of one always makes me think of the other.

/not giving that link (source) dignity of a response


There was a Flash video techno mashup of AWB that included Photoshopped images, and this part of the lineup.
 
2012-09-07 03:21:52 PM  

Jon iz teh kewl: NobleHam: DEBKAfile? Is this like the Israeli WND?

.WND = WINDOWS FILE?


In case you're serious, "WND" is World Net Daily. It's a crazy rightwing "news" site that still champions birtherism and Sheriff Joe and actually manages to be worst than Breitbart.
 
2012-09-07 03:25:37 PM  
Debka? Isn't that Tatsuma's blog?
 
2012-09-07 03:29:16 PM  
Huzzah! The Sunni Islamist government in Turkey is supporting the mostly Islamist, Sunni rebels in Syria, which is run by a minority Shi'ite dynasty. Iran and Hizbollah, both Shi'ite Islamist groups/countries, are backing Syria.

Hizbollah would attack Israel if this is true because Turkey, as a member of NATO, is a quasi-ally of Israel, and because fark Israel; their whole purpose is attacking Israel. Also, Hizbollah's forces are mostly in Southern Lebanon, which borders Israel, and ONLY Israel. If the Sunnis win in Syria, Hizbollah is farked sideways, because only Syrian backing has given them so much power in Lebanon.

If you are looking for an Imperialist western role in this you are going to get eyestrain. This is all local Muslim shiat.
 
2012-09-07 03:36:50 PM  

que.guero: Debka? Isn't that Tatsuma's blog?


Being that we're on Fark, it's probably his surname....
 
2012-09-07 03:37:25 PM  

give me doughnuts: AcneVulgaris: Eapoe6: If you had a friend who kept getting in fights, how many fights would have to take place before you took a look at your friend's behavior?

If your friend is jewish, that would be anti-semitism.

If you had a friend that kept getting attacked for simply existing, even after he repeatedly thrashed his attackers, wouldn't you think there is something wrong with his attackers?


Israel is the educated and free black man living in a white small town in Georgia in the 1860s.
 
2012-09-07 03:40:03 PM  

mark12A: That shameless hussy Israel, waving it's democratic, tolerant, free society in the faces of all those intolerant barbarians!! Destroy Israel! It's making the Arabs look bad!!


Israel certainly is more democratic than most of the Near East, but it certainly isn't Sweden when it comes the toleration. Leaving aside Israel's campaign of forced eviction in and around Jerusalem, and the various injustices associated with the Settler movement in the West Bank and the Security Wall, Israel has some very discriminatory laws governing marriage and child rearing between Jews and non-Jews, particularly Palestinians.
 
2012-09-07 03:42:01 PM  
RELEASE THE DRONES!
 
2012-09-07 04:01:45 PM  

OgreMagi: give me doughnuts: AcneVulgaris: Eapoe6: If you had a friend who kept getting in fights, how many fights would have to take place before you took a look at your friend's behavior?

If your friend is jewish, that would be anti-semitism.

If you had a friend that kept getting attacked for simply existing, even after he repeatedly thrashed his attackers, wouldn't you think there is something wrong with his attackers?

Israel is the educated and free black man living in a white small town in Georgia in the 1860s.


....who keeps saying "Bring it on, crackers!"
 
2012-09-07 04:12:12 PM  

Gyrfalcon: OgreMagi: give me doughnuts: AcneVulgaris: Eapoe6: If you had a friend who kept getting in fights, how many fights would have to take place before you took a look at your friend's behavior?

If your friend is jewish, that would be anti-semitism.

If you had a friend that kept getting attacked for simply existing, even after he repeatedly thrashed his attackers, wouldn't you think there is something wrong with his attackers?

Israel is the educated and free black man living in a white small town in Georgia in the 1860s.

....who keeps saying "Bring it on, crackers!"


Only in your delusional, anti-semetic world.

You're using the same argument those Georgia crackers used, "he was upity, so we had to teach him a lesson."
 
2012-09-07 04:21:27 PM  

OgreMagi: give me doughnuts: AcneVulgaris: Eapoe6: If you had a friend who kept getting in fights, how many fights would have to take place before you took a look at your friend's behavior?

If your friend is jewish, that would be anti-semitism.

If you had a friend that kept getting attacked for simply existing, even after he repeatedly thrashed his attackers, wouldn't you think there is something wrong with his attackers?

Israel is the educated and free black man living in a white small town in Georgia in the 1860s.


How do you defend the settlements that have been declared illegal internationally? How can you justify the eviction of muslims from their homes for Israelis? How can you not absolutely detest the war crime of using white phosphorus on innocents?
 
2012-09-07 04:32:25 PM  
This is not a repeat from 1516.
i.istockimg.com
/i hope
 
2012-09-07 04:54:54 PM  

MythDragon: Weaver95: War. War never changes.


[siliconsasquatch.com image 850x520]
"War has changed. It's no longer about nations, ideologies or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles, fought by mercenaries and machines. War, and its consumption of life, has become a well-oiled machine. War has changed. ID tagged soldiers carry ID tagged weapons, use ID tagged gear. Nanomachines inside their bodies enhance and regulate their abilities. Genetic control. Information control. Emotion control. Battlefield control. Everything is monitored, and kept under control. War has changed. The age of deterrence has become the age of control. All in the name of averting catastrophe from weapons of mass destruction. And he who controls the battlefield, controls history. War has changed. When the battlefield is under total control, war... becomes routine."


Am I the only person who hated that game?
 
2012-09-07 05:38:12 PM  

Galloping Galoshes: urger: That's great right up until someone attacks Turkey and then NATO goes all Article 5 on their ass.

Hmmm. How to rescue the European economy. War with Syria? (It worked for the US in WWII!) Naah, Syria isn't enough of a fight. Maybe Iran too. That would be a nice mess, what with the large muslim populations of various European countries, and Northern Europe attacking countries on or near the Russian border. Who needs Fulda Gap, we'll use the southern route. Not that I think Russia would react militarily to Turkish troops in Syria...


I wish I could get some of that good stuff you're smokin'.
 
2012-09-07 06:12:47 PM  

El Hodor: MythDragon: Weaver95: War. War never changes.


[siliconsasquatch.com image 850x520]
"War has changed. It's no longer about nations, ideologies or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles, fought by mercenaries and machines. War, and its consumption of life, has become a well-oiled machine. War has changed. ID tagged soldiers carry ID tagged weapons, use ID tagged gear. Nanomachines inside their bodies enhance and regulate their abilities. Genetic control. Information control. Emotion control. Battlefield control. Everything is monitored, and kept under control. War has changed. The age of deterrence has become the age of control. All in the name of averting catastrophe from weapons of mass destruction. And he who controls the battlefield, controls history. War has changed. When the battlefield is under total control, war... becomes routine."

Am I the only person who hated that game?


That game actually pissed of Yahtzee so much that he wrote his own four-part series of story-driven games to show them how it should be done.
 
2012-09-07 06:16:56 PM  

anfrind: That game actually pissed of Yahtzee so much


What Yahtzee may look like

www.barstoolu.com
 
2012-09-07 07:00:01 PM  

palelizard: Assuming for the moment this is all accurate, why would this cause a response from Lebanon/Hezbollah against Israel?


I wouldn't assume anything from Debkafile was accurate. They are basically the blind squirrel who occasionally finds a nut.
 
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