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(Talking Points Memo)   Conspiracy nutjob with a blog claims federal student loans are on a slippery slope toward the Holocaust. Just kidding, it was a sitting US congressman who said that on camera   (2012.talkingpointsmemo.com ) divider line
    More: Unlikely, federal student loans, Holocaust, congressman, student loans, conspiracy, Roscoe Bartlett, Chanhassen  
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4895 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Sep 2012 at 10:37 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-06 09:16:01 PM  
America is the laughing stock of the world right now. I firmly believe this.

We have a politician on the House Science Committee who believes that if someone is "legitimately raped" that the body somehow magically produces an as-yet-unnamed compound to "shut down" her reproductive system.

We have people on the House Science Committee who don't believe evolution is real. Who don't believe Climate change, regardless if they believe man causes it or not, is real. We have people on the Senate who believe homeopathy is legitimate.

We are raising our third generation of BET and MTV addicts, people who would rather watch such gems as Jersey Shore than focus on things like Math, Science, and History.

When we have people like this, the fact we have conspiracy theory douchebags who claim that we're one step away from setting up Concentration Camps really shouldn't be suprising.
 
2012-09-06 09:17:14 PM  
"While explaining my position on an important Constitutional issue I regrettably used an extreme example as a comparison that was ill-advised and inappropriate. I should never use something as horrific as the Holocaust to make a political point, and I deeply apologize to anyone I may have offended."

Glad to know he isn't going to take a stand on his statement. Romney could learn something from the old about to get retired Congressman.
 
2012-09-06 09:39:02 PM  
GOP Rep

But of course.
 
2012-09-06 09:43:36 PM  

BronyMedic: America is the laughing stock of the world right now. I firmly believe this.

We have a politician on the House Science Committee who believes that if someone is "legitimately raped" that the body somehow magically produces an as-yet-unnamed compound to "shut down" her reproductive system.

We have people on the House Science Committee who don't believe evolution is real. Who don't believe Climate change, regardless if they believe man causes it or not, is real. We have people on the Senate who believe homeopathy is legitimate.

We are raising our third generation of BET and MTV addicts, people who would rather watch such gems as Jersey Shore than focus on things like Math, Science, and History.

When we have people like this, the fact we have conspiracy theory douchebags who claim that we're one step away from setting up Concentration Camps really shouldn't be suprising.


We're not laughing at you, were laughing with you...
Actually that's not true either, but when you are ready to join the rest of the first world, rather than the third, we're here...
 
2012-09-06 09:45:14 PM  
Rep. Roscoe P. Bartlett also thinks that them dang Duke Boys are involved.
 
2012-09-06 09:45:34 PM  
The real horror is that there are people more stupid than this knuckle-dragging mouth-breather

/and they voted for him
 
2012-09-06 09:48:38 PM  
It's really not that far fetched, and I think he might be on to something.

If the federal government gives out student loans, some students might get an education. Those educated students might go on to invent time travel. It's a rather big machine, with a ramp leading down to it. Some spills some water on this ramp. The janitor slips and falls on the water, slides into the machine and is transported back Dacua, circa 1944.
 
2012-09-06 09:57:42 PM  

sno man: We're not laughing at you, were laughing with you...


Oh, no. America, as it exists today, deserves to be laughed at. The once great country has become a bastion of stupidity and theocracy. We champion willful ignorance and revisionist history, while pretending to stand on a moralist pillar to other countries.

sno man: Actually that's not true either, but when you are ready to join the rest of the first world, rather than the third, we're here...


It's sad to think that this nation once lead the world in Science and Technology, and we've so gladly given that up to be the nation of derp.

I used to scold people on here for making comparisons to Idiocracy. Now, I firmly believe that we're moving towards that.
 
2012-09-06 10:26:26 PM  
Yeah - my former Congressman. He's the number #1 Peak Oil guy in Congress (interview here). So you think if peak oil is a scam, he's a nutjob. If you think peak oil is real, he's you're guy.
 
jbc [TotalFark]
2012-09-06 10:27:23 PM  
It's not like he compared them to "stage 3 cancer". Because only an ignoramus would do that.
 
2012-09-06 10:37:43 PM  

BronyMedic: sno man: [you read this earlier]

It's sad to think that this nation once lead the world in Science and Technology, and we've so gladly given that up to be the nation of derp.

I used to scold people on here for making comparisons to Idiocracy. Now, I firmly believe that we're moving towards that.


You (collective) have a lot to do, but I'm not sure it's as bad as all that. " It's a harder path to a better place." (Damn he's good) the harder path will do you all a lot of good...
 
2012-09-06 10:40:22 PM  

BronyMedic: America is the laughing stock of the world right now. I firmly believe this.


Yeah.
 
2012-09-06 10:42:51 PM  
talkingpointsmemo.com

newsimg.bbc.co.uk
 
2012-09-06 10:43:01 PM  
Whaddya mean you can't be a conspiracy nutjob with a blog AND a US Congressman?
 
2012-09-06 10:44:16 PM  
You know what is also like the Holocaust? Doing taxes every year. Taxpayers are the jews in Obama's ovens. Or something like that. I'm not searching for that teaparty picture.
 
2012-09-06 10:45:47 PM  

Triumph: Yeah - my former Congressman. He's the number #1 Peak Oil guy in Congress (interview here). So you think if peak oil is a scam, he's a nutjob. If you think peak oil is real, he's you're guy.


I'm sure he's also the #1 peak Jew guy in congress.
 
2012-09-06 10:49:34 PM  
being a "Conspiracy Nutjob" is almost a qualification for Republican Congress Critters these days.
 
2012-09-06 10:51:17 PM  
THIS is how you Godwin a debate without ending up sounding like a douchebag:

South Carolina Democratic Party Chairman Dick Harpootlian compared South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley (R) to Hitler's mistress on Wednesday, The State reports. "She was down in the bunker a la Eva Braun," Harpootlian said, according to The State.

In an interview with CNN on Wednesday evening, Harpootlian said he won't be apologizing for his comments.

"Hell no. What am I apologizing for?," he told CNN. "This is fake. Nikki Haley is feigning this. There is not a sincere bone in her body."

"I wasn't trying to insinuate that Nikki was a Nazi," Harpootlian continued. "I was saying that she was hanging out in an insular bunker in Charlotte when she won't give access to the press here in South Carolina ... So she has some hurt feelings? I didn't know she had feelings."
 
2012-09-06 10:53:15 PM  
Oh...my...God...that would be the rep from my district. *hangs head in shame*

Roscoe has been an abject embarrassment for 8 years now. He snoozes through half the hearings, anyway.

His moonbat rants about peak oil are legendary. He just needs to retire. The local teahadists are already mounting a challenge, which will probably result in an even greater embarrassment.
 
2012-09-06 10:55:06 PM  

Triumph: He's the number #1 Peak Oil guy in Congress (interview here)


Was there information in that? I couldn't tell, I was completely overwhelmed by the stupid. Honestly, I might agree with every word of that, but I'll never know.

Actually, don't answer that. Whatever that publication has to offer isn't worth the time to read about it.
 
2012-09-06 11:02:47 PM  
Armageddon or meltdown would have been a better choice of words, but we are headed to a disaster similar to the mortgage crisis in regards to student loans. Of course that's primarily because Sallie Mae got sold off and is privately held now.
 
2012-09-06 11:02:54 PM  
This is precisely what happens when you don't wear that onion on your belt -- even if just on a dare for a few minutes.
 
2012-09-06 11:03:08 PM  
Let's be fair.

There's very little difference between conspiracy nutjobs and US congressmen.
 
2012-09-06 11:05:17 PM  
He seems to imply that Americans of German descent are a just one step away from becoming Nazis and all it takes to push us over the edge is federal student loans.
 
2012-09-06 11:05:19 PM  

dookdookdook: THIS is how you Godwin a debate without ending up sounding like a douchebag:

South Carolina Democratic Party Chairman Dick Harpootlian compared South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley (R) to Hitler's mistress on Wednesday, The State reports. "She was down in the bunker a la Eva Braun," Harpootlian said, according to The State.

In an interview with CNN on Wednesday evening, Harpootlian said he won't be apologizing for his comments.

"Hell no. What am I apologizing for?," he told CNN. "This is fake. Nikki Haley is feigning this. There is not a sincere bone in her body."

"I wasn't trying to insinuate that Nikki was a Nazi," Harpootlian continued. "I was saying that she was hanging out in an insular bunker in Charlotte when she won't give access to the press here in South Carolina ... So she has some hurt feelings? I didn't know she had feelings."


How can you trust a guy who gave Navin R. Johnson a job?
 
2012-09-06 11:05:21 PM  
Ah, more ultra liberal stuff from the muckraker.

webpages.charter.net
 
2012-09-06 11:07:07 PM  

dookdookdook: THIS is how you Godwin a debate without ending up sounding like a douchebag:

South Carolina Democratic Party Chairman Dick Harpootlian compared South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley (R) to Hitler's mistress on Wednesday, The State reports. "She was down in the bunker a la Eva Braun," Harpootlian said, according to The State.

In an interview with CNN on Wednesday evening, Harpootlian said he won't be apologizing for his comments.

"Hell no. What am I apologizing for?," he told CNN. "This is fake. Nikki Haley is feigning this. There is not a sincere bone in her body."

"I wasn't trying to insinuate that Nikki was a Nazi," Harpootlian continued. "I was saying that she was hanging out in an insular bunker in Charlotte when she won't give access to the press here in South Carolina ... So she has some hurt feelings? I didn't know she had feelings."


No, he sounds like a douchebag too. It's not that I disagree with the sentiment, but he could have made the point better.
 
2012-09-06 11:08:12 PM  
maybe
 
2012-09-06 11:13:33 PM  

shotglasss: Ah, more ultra liberal stuff from the muckraker.

[webpages.charter.net image 500x500]


Too lazy to click on the Washington Post link in the article? I guess when you live in your Mom's basement you'd be that lazy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/maryland-politics/post/bartlett-c a lls-federal-student-loans-unconstitutional-invokes-holocaust/2012/09/0 6/70dd2974-f842-11e1-8253-3f495ae70650_blog.html#pagebreak
 
2012-09-06 11:13:41 PM  
The Right seems obsessed with You-Know-Who. The Mark Levin show starts with this melodramatic pronouncement: "Broadcasting from the underground command post deep in the bowls of a hidden bunker somewhere under the brick and steel of a non-descript building, we've once again made contact with our leader, Mark Levin." Cue the Wagner.
Also, Conservative talk-show host Barbara Simpson calls herself "The Babe In The Bunker." Gosh, Barbara, I thought that was Eva Braun! Where's a Downfall satire when we need one?
/Still not voting for Obama.
 
2012-09-06 11:13:57 PM  
I'm really getting f*cking sick and tired of the "well it's not in the Constitutions" bullshait. The Constitution is supposed to be a guide on how the government should function, it's not there to deal with petty BS like if there should there be Federal student loan program or definitions of marriage like some GOP nutters want in there.  If you want to go down that road I guess I can go out and start raping women because, hey, there's not a 'shred of evidence' in the Constitution that says I can't rape women.
 
2012-09-06 11:15:13 PM  
I can't stand assholes like this that spout off some crazy nonsense then try to back it up by saying that there is nothing in the constitution that supports it. Well you know what asshole? There are a lot of things the government does that aren't mentioned in the constitution, like give subsidies to oil companies, but you would be standing on your head screaming if the government stopped half of them.

And it is even worse when it is coming from an elected official.
 
2012-09-06 11:15:22 PM  
Hey Politicians here's a hint. Unless you're talking about say..... actual genocide or something similar, how about you never ever ever compare something to the holocaust.

And by the way, student loans, obamacare, or welfare DO NOT fall into the "similar" category.
 
2012-09-06 11:15:23 PM  

Lorelle: GOP Rep

But of course.


Not at all like those reasonable Democrat politicians who believe that the GOP are Nazis who are secretly planning to reinstitute slavery.

What the senator in TFA was saying -- clumsily expressed tho' it may have been -- is that the federal government has no place in taking on big projects of any kind when these can reasonably be devolved to a lower level of authority; and that an unconstitutional concentration of power at the federal level is, in the long term and in the broadest sense, potentially dangerous. This is no more than a restatement of the old idea that "a government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take away everything you have", which is to say that once we grow entirely dependent upon an all- powerful State for its largesse we are also placing ourselves at its mercy should it ever choose to withdraw its favour for any reason. Because the State has a natural inclination and incentive towards perpetual expansion, even the good things it offers to the citizenry are potentially weighted with adverse consequences, and that is something we all ought to be aware of.

/now back to the Two Minutes Hate! BLARGH RETHUGLICAN BIGOT
 
2012-09-06 11:15:24 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: It's really not that far fetched, and I think he might be on to something.

If the federal government gives out student loans, some students might get an education. Those educated students might go on to invent time travel. It's a rather big machine, with a ramp leading down to it. Some spills some water on this ramp. The janitor slips and falls on the water, slides into the machine and is transported back Dacua, circa 1944.


You mean Dachau, I hope.
 
2012-09-06 11:16:16 PM  

12349876: shotglasss: Ah, more ultra liberal stuff from the muckraker.

[webpages.charter.net image 500x500]

Too lazy to click on the Washington Post link in the article? I guess when you live in your Mom's basement you'd be that lazy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/maryland-politics/post/bartlett-c a lls-federal-student-loans-unconstitutional-invokes-holocaust/2012/09/0 6/70dd2974-f842-11e1-8253-3f495ae70650_blog.html#pagebreak


webpages.charter.net
 
2012-09-06 11:16:22 PM  

shotglasss: Ah, more ultra liberal stuff from the muckraker.

[webpages.charter.net image 500x500]


It is entirely shameful the way the liberal media uses direct quotes in context these days, TPM is yet another example of this non stop attack by reality without taking into consideration perhaps someone from a different place sees it differently. There are perhaps millions of Bizarro world nativies living with people from this planet, but never once does the MSM stop to think, perhaps on bizarro world this indeed did happen.
 
2012-09-06 11:16:44 PM  

shotglasss: Ah, more ultra liberal stuff from the muckraker.


"Ultra" makes everything more dangerous and makes me fear education more. It's like "militant," but sounds more sciency.

/Ultra ultra ultra.
 
2012-09-06 11:17:08 PM  

shotglasss: 12349876: shotglasss: Ah, more ultra liberal stuff from the muckraker.

[webpages.charter.net image 500x500]

Too lazy to click on the Washington Post link in the article? I guess when you live in your Mom's basement you'd be that lazy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/maryland-politics/post/bartlett-c a lls-federal-student-loans-unconstitutional-invokes-holocaust/2012/09/0 6/70dd2974-f842-11e1-8253-3f495ae70650_blog.html#pagebreak

[webpages.charter.net image 383x560]


When you don't have a reply, post a stupid ass image. The way of the TROLL.
 
2012-09-06 11:19:23 PM  

BronyMedic: America is the laughing stock of the world right now. I firmly believe this.


You're a grown adult who watches a kids' show about magic ponies. Who are you to complain about being a laughing stock?
 
2012-09-06 11:23:04 PM  
farking dammit Fartlett. This is one of many reasons why I'm voting against you in November....IF I'm still living in the region.

Fun fact: Fartlett came into my parents' house after a parade a few years ago.I struggled against asking him why he decided to go to the ceremony that crowned Sun Myung Moon as God-Emperor of the world.

Even funner fact: My dad, a lifelong Republican, switched his party affiliation to Independent recently and will be voting for Obama in November. He can't stand the Republicans and their bullshiat anymore
 
2012-09-06 11:30:42 PM  
Conspiracy nutjob and sitting US congressman are about as far from mutually exclusive as you can get.
scrapetv.com
errm?
i.huffpost.com
whut?
 
2012-09-06 11:31:42 PM  
I don't see anywhere in the constitution anything about federal highway spending. Where do I have to show my papers, and how long is this shower supposed to take? I have a busy day
 
2012-09-06 11:31:58 PM  

LarryDan43: Conspiracy nutjob and sitting US congressman are about as far from mutually exclusive as you can get.
[scrapetv.com image 300x415]
errm?
[i.huffpost.com image 260x190]
whut?


Sorry ladies, congresswoman might be farther.
 
2012-09-06 11:32:53 PM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: Lorelle: GOP Rep

But of course.

Not at all like those reasonable Democrat politicians who believe that the GOP are Nazis who are secretly planning to reinstitute slavery.

What the senator in TFA was saying -- clumsily expressed tho' it may have been -- is that the federal government has no place in taking on big projects of any kind when these can reasonably be devolved to a lower level of authority; and that an unconstitutional concentration of power at the federal level is, in the long term and in the broadest sense, potentially dangerous. This is no more than a restatement of the old idea that "a government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take away everything you have", which is to say that once we grow entirely dependent upon an all- powerful State for its largesse we are also placing ourselves at its mercy should it ever choose to withdraw its favour for any reason. Because the State has a natural inclination and incentive towards perpetual expansion, even the good things it offers to the citizenry are potentially weighted with adverse consequences, and that is something we all ought to be aware of.

/now back to the Two Minutes Hate! BLARGH RETHUGLICAN BIGOT


ClintonKun: farking dammit Fartlett. This is one of many reasons why I'm voting against you in November....IF I'm still living in the region.

Fun fact: Fartlett came into my parents' house after a parade a few years ago.I struggled against asking him why he decided to go to the ceremony that crowned Sun Myung Moon as God-Emperor of the world.

Even funner fact: My dad, a lifelong Republican, switched his party affiliation to Independent recently and will be voting for Obama in November. He can't stand the Republicans and their bullshiat anymore


Than Mr. Not-in-the Constitution can come out publicly against corporate subsidies and welfare. 'Cause I don't see that shiat in there either. Or the whole "wand up a women's vagina", or "legitimate rape". Once this old fart refutes these things as well as the student loan deal, than I'll talk him seriously. Until then, fark him, Ross Perot can use his juices to extend the life of young people.
 
2012-09-06 11:33:57 PM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: Lorelle: GOP Rep

But of course.

Not at all like those reasonable Democrat politicians who believe that the GOP are Nazis who are secretly planning to reinstitute slavery.

What the senator in TFA was saying -- clumsily expressed tho' it may have been -- is that the federal government has no place in taking on big projects of any kind when these can reasonably be devolved to a lower level of authority; and that an unconstitutional concentration of power at the federal level is, in the long term and in the broadest sense, potentially dangerous. This is no more than a restatement of the old idea that "a government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take away everything you have", which is to say that once we grow entirely dependent upon an all- powerful State for its largesse we are also placing ourselves at its mercy should it ever choose to withdraw its favour for any reason. Because the State has a natural inclination and incentive towards perpetual expansion, even the good things it offers to the citizenry are potentially weighted with adverse consequences, and that is something we all ought to be aware of.

/now back to the Two Minutes Hate! BLARGH RETHUGLICAN BIGOT


The Goverment shouldn't be involved in multi-trillion dollar investment loans for the education of our nations youth? In my opinion, it's the perfect thing for our Goverment to be involved in.
 
2012-09-06 11:36:15 PM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: BronyMedic: America is the laughing stock of the world right now. I firmly believe this.

You're a grown adult who watches a kids' show about magic ponies. Who are you to complain about being a laughing stock?


Hell you're a defender of the modern day GOP platform. Where do you have the position to call anyone else a laughing stock?
 
2012-09-06 11:44:34 PM  

kaitou: EvilRacistNaziFascist: BronyMedic: America is the laughing stock of the world right now. I firmly believe this.

You're a grown adult who watches a kids' show about magic ponies. Who are you to complain about being a laughing stock?

Hell you're a defender of the modern day GOP platform. Where do you have the position to call anyone else a laughing stock?


Oh, snap.

MLP:FIM > GOP
 
2012-09-06 11:48:36 PM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: BronyMedic: America is the laughing stock of the world right now. I firmly believe this.

You're a grown adult who watches a kids' show about magic ponies. Who are you to complain about being a laughing stock?


You're a grown adult who has a passive-aggressive "look how victimized I am" handle. Who are you to complain about what other people complain about?
 
2012-09-06 11:48:55 PM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: What the senator in TFA was saying -- clumsily expressed tho' it may have been -- blah blah blah longwinded weak response in defense of nutbag Congressman


Nah. What he said is this:

"Not that it's not a good idea to give students loans; it certainly is a good idea to give them loans. But if you can ignore the Constitution to do something good today, tomorrow you will be ignoring the Constitution to do something bad. You could. There are more people in our, in America today of German ancestry than any other [inaudible]. The Holocaust that occurred in Germany - how in the heck could that happen? And when you start down the wrong road, it can be a very slippery slope."

I heard it loud and clear right here.
 
2012-09-06 11:49:14 PM  
If the Framers were so smart, how come they never factored inflation into the seventh amendment? Hmm?
 
2012-09-06 11:53:12 PM  
Had a guy at work tell me that "all of our problems are caused by PHD's" . That they were "educated Idiots". He wants to vote for some one who represents the simple folks, salt of the earth, you know...

/On a totes diff note, I really liked Bubba's speech yesterday about ARITHMETIC!
 
2012-09-06 11:55:40 PM  
"Promoting the General Welfare" - how the fark does it work?
 
2012-09-07 12:00:14 AM  
 
2012-09-07 12:06:13 AM  

buster_v: "Promoting the General Welfare" - how the fark does it work?


However is most politically convenient at that point in time. Seriously, that phrase is so vague as to be meaningless.
 
2012-09-07 12:06:47 AM  
Nevermind that many of the founding fathers were vocal proponents of public education.
 
2012-09-07 12:07:46 AM  

elchip: If the Framers were so smart, how come they never factored inflation into the seventh amendment? Hmm?


Might have something to do with the gold standard.
 
2012-09-07 12:08:40 AM  

GentlemanJ: The Right seems obsessed with You-Know-Who. The Mark Levin show starts with this melodramatic pronouncement: "Broadcasting from the underground command post deep in the bowls of a hidden bunker somewhere under the brick and steel of a non-descript building, we've once again made contact with our leader, Mark Levin." Cue the Wagner.
Also, Conservative talk-show host Barbara Simpson calls herself "The Babe In The Bunker." Gosh, Barbara, I thought that was Eva Braun! Where's a Downfall satire when we need one?
/Still not voting for Obama.


Almost right...except it's Linkin Park, not Wagner. Let's not go giving Mark Levin an inch of credit.
 
2012-09-07 12:10:50 AM  
Has guam tipped over?

/don't look up Rep. Sharon Jackson Lee
 
2012-09-07 12:15:32 AM  

whcrow: elchip: If the Framers were so smart, how come they never factored inflation into the seventh amendment? Hmm?

Might have something to do with the gold standard.


Silver, technically. We didn't go onto the gold standard until 1873.
 
2012-09-07 12:16:05 AM  
Is there anything that says that you have to pay a congress critter 3 times the average salary? If not, I say cut it back to what it was when the constitution was first written.

The First Congress decided to play it safe and compensate senators and representatives at the rate paid to the Constitution's framers-six dollars for every day they attended a session.

Link

Looks like the "Teaparty" hasn't chagned a bit.
 
2012-09-07 12:16:39 AM  
wonders if the congressman who said that is a republican.. Clicks..whelp I was right
Stay classy GOP
 
2012-09-07 12:20:31 AM  

fusillade762: [cdn1.alexanderhiggins.com image 290x290]

/derp


so, this is what has happened when we opened the doors on the nut houses.

FFS
 
2012-09-07 12:23:47 AM  

quatchi: kaitou: EvilRacistNaziFascist: BronyMedic: America is the laughing stock of the world right now. I firmly believe this.

You're a grown adult who watches a kids' show about magic ponies. Who are you to complain about being a laughing stock?

Hell you're a defender of the modern day GOP platform. Where do you have the position to call anyone else a laughing stock?

Oh, snap.

MLP:FIM > GOP


To be fair, Princess Celestia was on board with Newt during the primaries...

media-cards.theotaku.com
 
2012-09-07 12:25:12 AM  
Why all the debate? He Godwinned himself, he loses.
 
2012-09-07 12:25:32 AM  

skipjack: Has guam tipped over?

/don't look up Rep. Sharon Jackson Lee


Who is Rep. Sharon Jackson Lee?

\dumasd
 
2012-09-07 12:25:56 AM  

Lorelle: GOP Rep

But of course.


Old white guy.. also, but i just repeated what you said.
 
2012-09-07 12:27:11 AM  

max_pooper: skipjack: Has guam tipped over?

/don't look up Rep. Sharon Jackson Lee

Who is Rep. Sharon Jackson Lee?

\dumasd


Worse than 10 bachmans
 
2012-09-07 12:38:53 AM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: Lorelle: GOP Rep

But of course.

Not at all like those reasonable Democrat politicians who believe that the GOP are Nazis who are secretly planning to reinstitute slavery.

What the senator in TFA was saying -- clumsily expressed tho' it may have been -- is that the federal government has no place in taking on big projects of any kind when these can reasonably be devolved to a lower level of authority; and that an unconstitutional concentration of power at the federal level is, in the long term and in the broadest sense, potentially dangerous. This is no more than a restatement of the old idea that "a government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take away everything you have", which is to say that once we grow entirely dependent upon an all- powerful State for its largesse we are also placing ourselves at its mercy should it ever choose to withdraw its favour for any reason. Because the State has a natural inclination and incentive towards perpetual expansion, even the good things it offers to the citizenry are potentially weighted with adverse consequences, and that is something we all ought to be aware of.

/now back to the Two Minutes Hate! BLARGH RETHUGLICAN BIGOT


Favorited!
 
2012-09-07 12:49:58 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-09-07 12:51:00 AM  
Ryan like implying detected.
 
2012-09-07 01:00:20 AM  
Aell all those people going to culinary schools learning to bake are getting a little nervous about their funding right about now.

/What? Too soon?
 
2012-09-07 01:04:31 AM  

KerwoodDerby: Oh...my...God...that would be the rep from my district. *hangs head in shame*


It could be worse. My Rep. is Darrell Issa.
 
2012-09-07 01:10:40 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: The real horror is that there are people more stupid than this knuckle-dragging mouth-breather



The Financial Aid office calls them "borrowers.".

"I don't often talk to people with BA's in History or English and a mound of debt. But when I do, I ask for large fries."
 
2012-09-07 01:19:23 AM  
I was unaware the constitution prohibited the government from getting involved in student loans. Who knew?
 
2012-09-07 01:20:26 AM  

Chimperror2: Aell all those people going to culinary schools learning to bake are getting a little nervous about their funding right about now.

/What? Too soon?


And the Paultards learning to "bake" too.
 
2012-09-07 01:22:10 AM  

Chimperror2: MaudlinMutantMollusk: The real horror is that there are people more stupid than this knuckle-dragging mouth-breather


The Financial Aid office calls them "borrowers.".

"I don't often talk to people with BA's in History or English and a mound of debt. But when I do, I ask for large fries."


You sound fat.
 
2012-09-07 01:22:48 AM  

BronyMedic: America is the laughing stock of the world right now. I firmly believe this.

We have a politician on the House Science Committee who believes that if someone is "legitimately raped" that the body somehow magically produces an as-yet-unnamed compound to "shut down" her reproductive system.

We have people on the House Science Committee who don't believe evolution is real. Who don't believe Climate change, regardless if they believe man causes it or not, is real. We have people on the Senate who believe homeopathy is legitimate.

We are raising our third generation of BET and MTV addicts, people who would rather watch such gems as Jersey Shore than focus on things like Math, Science, and History.

When we have people like this, the fact we have conspiracy theory douchebags who claim that we're one step away from setting up Concentration Camps really shouldn't be suprising.


Don't give up hope. Just hate everyone preemptively, works for me.
 
2012-09-07 01:39:03 AM  

coeyagi: I was unaware the constitution prohibited the government from getting involved in student loans. Who knew?


The constitution doesn't prohibit federal government, it enables it. Items not enabled are reserved to the states. Some people think the commerce clause for trade between states enables everything and anything. Who knew?
 
2012-09-07 01:40:08 AM  

Chimperror2: coeyagi: I was unaware the constitution prohibited the government from getting involved in student loans. Who knew?

The constitution doesn't prohibit federal government, it enables it. Items not enabled are reserved to the states. Some people think the commerce clause for trade between states enables everything and anything. Who knew?


Obviously not this R-etard Godwinning himself.
 
2012-09-07 01:43:45 AM  

shotglasss (farkied: Has had way too many shotglasses): Ah, more ultra liberal stuff from the muckraker.


i149.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-07 01:52:42 AM  

KerwoodDerby: His moonbat rants about peak oil are legendary. He just needs to retire. The local teahadists are already mounting a challenge, which will probably result in an even greater embarrassment.


OK, lemme see if I have this straight. We're having to level mountains to get at coal, dig up tar sands for oil and pump poison into the ground to flush out gas. US domestic oil production has been declining since the mid 70s. But peak oil is moonbattery.

Roscoe Bartlett is a farkhead, but he's right about peak oil.
 
2012-09-07 01:57:08 AM  
FTFA: There are more people in our, in America today of German ancestry than any other ... The Holocaust that occurred in Germany - how in the heck could that happen?

This German-American would like a word with you, Congresscritter:

i541.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-07 02:12:15 AM  

Chimperror2: coeyagi: I was unaware the constitution prohibited the government from getting involved in student loans. Who knew?

The constitution doesn't prohibit federal government, it enables it. Items not enabled are reserved to the states. Some people think the commerce clause for trade between states enables everything and anything. Who knew?

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;


I think making sure our citizens have the opportunity to be educated at all levels is providing for the general welfare of the United States.
 
2012-09-07 02:35:14 AM  
rep. sharon jackson lee stoled my bibble and then forced me to worship satin
 
2012-09-07 02:38:57 AM  
So do any conservatives like this Maryland idiot realize that it was Leo farking Strauss who coined the term "Reductio ad Hitlerum" to refer to the irrelevant use of Hitler/Nazi analogies?

/probably not Bartlett, since I doubt he's ever heard of Strauss
//oh, and two Maryland idiots in a row - tag?
 
2012-09-07 03:13:59 AM  

47 is the new 42: Chimperror2: coeyagi: I was unaware the constitution prohibited the government from getting involved in student loans. Who knew?

The constitution doesn't prohibit federal government, it enables it. Items not enabled are reserved to the states. Some people think the commerce clause for trade between states enables everything and anything. Who knew?

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

I think making sure our citizens have the opportunity to be educated at all levels is providing for the general welfare of the United States.


Oh please. If that clause was meant to be a general grant of power, they wouldn't have bothered with enumerating all the other powers in Article I Section 8. Over half that stuff can be accomplished just by throwing money at it.

(And before you respond, note that the Founders themselves were divided over meaning of the clause. Hamilton, Adams, and the Federalists were on your side. Jefferson, Madison, and the Democratic-Republicans were on mine. For all their vaunted genius, writing unambiguous legal documents was not those guys' strong suit, which seems like a pretty big handicap when you're crafting the framework for a government that's supposed to carefully balance liberty and power. But at least it gives the Supreme Court plenty to do.)
 
2012-09-07 03:33:19 AM  

HellRaisingHoosier: EvilRacistNaziFascist: Lorelle: GOP Rep

But of course.

Not at all like those reasonable Democrat politicians who believe that the GOP are Nazis who are secretly planning to reinstitute slavery.

What the senator in TFA was saying -- clumsily expressed tho' it may have been -- is that the federal government has no place in taking on big projects of any kind when these can reasonably be devolved to a lower level of authority; and that an unconstitutional concentration of power at the federal level is, in the long term and in the broadest sense, potentially dangerous. This is no more than a restatement of the old idea that "a government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take away everything you have", which is to say that once we grow entirely dependent upon an all- powerful State for its largesse we are also placing ourselves at its mercy should it ever choose to withdraw its favour for any reason. Because the State has a natural inclination and incentive towards perpetual expansion, even the good things it offers to the citizenry are potentially weighted with adverse consequences, and that is something we all ought to be aware of.

/now back to the Two Minutes Hate! BLARGH RETHUGLICAN BIGOT

The Goverment shouldn't be involved in multi-trillion dollar investment loans for the education of our nations youth? In my opinion, it's the perfect thing for our Goverment to be involved in.


I played a game called "Democracy 2" once, but it was too easy. There was supposed to be a challenge involved in staying President for a second term and fixing the problems of the USA. If my memory serves me, you can put about 10% of the Pentagon's budget into education and fix almost everything, other ills are solved by the mountains of revenue you bring in after a little time.

/csb
 
2012-09-07 03:39:42 AM  
FTFA: "There are more people in our, in America today of German Irish ancestry than any other ... The Holocaust potato famine that occurred in Germany Ireland - how in the heck could that happen? And when you start down the wrong road, it can be a very slippery slope." The congressman went on to label Irish-Americans as "a drunken scourge out to sabotage our nation's proud potato heritage."
 
2012-09-07 04:06:09 AM  

BronyMedic: America is the laughing stock of the world right now. I firmly believe this.


I think that your belief is up there with the dry womb representative. In my travels around the world, I've learned that you get idiot, mislead, corrupt, and overly religious politicians everywhere. I've become disillusioned as to how 'good' Europe supposedly has it, I've heard of stinkers in Australia, and Korea has fist fights and occasionally tear gas shot in their legislature.

That being said, the problem with student loans is that there are many parallels between the way we've been handling student loans and home mortgages. The cost of a college education has been rising far above inflation, just like home prices. To the point that the cost of a college degree can reduce your income to the point that you're better off going directly to work or through a technical school. It can take decades to make up the difference. 

That being said, I hardly think it'll lead to an actual holocaust.
 
2012-09-07 04:14:09 AM  

BronyMedic: America is the laughing stock of the world right now. I firmly believe this.

We have a politician on the House Science Committee who believes that if someone is "legitimately raped" that the body somehow magically produces an as-yet-unnamed compound to "shut down" her reproductive system.

We have people on the House Science Committee who don't believe evolution is real. Who don't believe Climate change, regardless if they believe man causes it or not, is real. We have people on the Senate who believe homeopathy is legitimate.

We are raising our third generation of BET and MTV addicts, people who would rather watch such gems as Jersey Shore than focus on things like Math, Science, and History.

When we have people like this, the fact we have conspiracy theory douchebags who claim that we're one step away from setting up Concentration Camps really shouldn't be suprising.


Well said! You have just been favorited.

/I'm sure that will make you feel warm and fuzzy
 
2012-09-07 04:34:49 AM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: BronyMedic: America is the laughing stock of the world right now. I firmly believe this.

You're a grown adult who watches a kids' show about magic ponies. Who are you to complain about being a laughing stock?


You're an Evil, Racist, Nazi, Fascist! Who are you to complain about my entertainment choices!

But no. You are defending the modern day GOP platform of stupidity and theocracy. That speaks loads about your mentality.
 
2012-09-07 05:53:05 AM  

BronyMedic: America is the laughing stock of the world right now. I firmly believe this.


I think most people in Germany can see it's the Republicans.

Just read a poll in the daily newspaper (Rheinische Post). Germans would vote 86% to 7% for Obama against Romney, with the rest Undecided/Don't know.
 
2012-09-07 06:26:32 AM  

ilambiquated: BronyMedic: America is the laughing stock of the world right now. I firmly believe this.

I think most people in Germany can see it's the Republicans.

Just read a poll in the daily newspaper (Rheinische Post). Germans would vote 86% to 7% for Obama against Romney, with the rest Undecided/Don't know.


Meh. What would ze Germans know? Their "Thousand Year Reich" barely lasted a decade, FFS.
 
2012-09-07 06:46:51 AM  
Republicans like 'em dumb... That way the base has something in common with their representatives.
 
2012-09-07 06:55:26 AM  

BSABSVR: EvilRacistNaziFascist: BronyMedic: America is the laughing stock of the world right now. I firmly believe this.

You're a grown adult who watches a kids' show about magic ponies. Who are you to complain about being a laughing stock?

You're a grown adult who has a passive-aggressive "look how victimized I am" handle. Who are you to complain about what other people complain about?


Reading his profile, his name would be shorter if he just picked 'Asshole' instead.

Are we suppose to feel sorry for them as they nail themselves to crosses every minute?
 
2012-09-07 07:12:27 AM  
No, this is what student loans are like:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-09-07 07:19:40 AM  

EyeballKid: No, this is what student loans are like:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 250x188]


?

I went to a state school using a combination of Pell Grants, Student Loans, and money I saved working part-time jobs while I was in school... My loans are all paid off, and I have an education and a career I love.

Having a hard time seeing how that resembles being duped by some hustler and a 3 card monty game, to be honest with you.
 
2012-09-07 07:29:18 AM  

EyeballKid: No, this is what private student loans are like:


FTFY. With private loans you have all the problems of undischargeable debt without any of the protections provided by federal loans. If it wasn't for federal loans, the student debt problem would be a lot worse than it currently is.
 
2012-09-07 07:33:05 AM  
What concerns me is these here teenagers playing their "beat" music in the park and throwing their "frisbees" right where our nation's youth can see them. Now, grown-up lady parts might have the power to ward off rape babies, but a child's developing brain has no such defense against this menace. A child hears this here Dave Clark Five, and one generation later you've got yourself a Holocaust, which as I understand it, means tax rates above fifteen percent--I know, I know!--and redistribubating of the wealth and what-not.
 
2012-09-07 07:38:04 AM  

keylock71: EyeballKid: No, this is what student loans are like:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 250x188]

?

I went to a state school using a combination of Pell Grants, Student Loans, and money I saved working part-time jobs while I was in school... My loans are all paid off, and I have an education and a career I love.

Having a hard time seeing how that resembles being duped by some hustler and a 3 card monty game, to be honest with you.


Well, there was hiring going on back when you graduated from college? That must have been nice. College intuitions in themselves are a scam, if you consider they go up every year regardless of their real value*.

*Unless you're really good at a child's game. Then you can kinda attend classes for free, because you've obviously worked on your scholastic abilities!
 
2012-09-07 07:39:09 AM  

EyeballKid: College intuitions in themselves are a scam


/ftfm
/shiat I'm up early
 
2012-09-07 07:40:03 AM  

keylock71: I went to a state school using a combination of Pell Grants, Student Loans, and money I saved working part-time jobs while I was in school... My loans are all paid off, and I have an education and a career I love.


How long ago was this? It's the second one that's causing the problem right now, there are increasing numbers of students graduating with $100k+ in those loans. You can't save that kind of money working part time. It takes decades to pay off - while you're trying to buy a house, often a car, etc...
 
2012-09-07 07:40:06 AM  
5th grade math student rejoice and join conspiracy nut jobs in shrugging their shoulders in disbelief.

How could all those Harvard Yale and Princeton egg heads have missed this mathematical disaster?

Are they really stupid, brainwashed or bribed? You decide.
 
2012-09-07 07:46:23 AM  

sno man: BronyMedic: America is the laughing stock of the world right now. I firmly believe this.

We have a politician on the House Science Committee who believes that if someone is "legitimately raped" that the body somehow magically produces an as-yet-unnamed compound to "shut down" her reproductive system.

We have people on the House Science Committee who don't believe evolution is real. Who don't believe Climate change, regardless if they believe man causes it or not, is real. We have people on the Senate who believe homeopathy is legitimate.

We are raising our third generation of BET and MTV addicts, people who would rather watch such gems as Jersey Shore than focus on things like Math, Science, and History.

When we have people like this, the fact we have conspiracy theory douchebags who claim that we're one step away from setting up Concentration Camps really shouldn't be suprising.

We're not laughing at you, were laughing with you...
Actually that's not true either, but when you are ready to join the rest of the first world, rather than the third, we're here...


Oh please, like the rest of the First World does not have their elected retards who say stupid shiat. You assume that the rest of the world gives a shiat about anything but our money. Hint they don't. As long as we keep importing their crap, and allowing them to buy our bonds, they don't give a flying fark about who is in charge.

Anyway you want to know what the political ramifications of future shock are? Look at the Republican party, these people aren't all stupid the world is just changing too fast for them to adjust. It is why the end up saying stupid shiat and double down on "family" or "traditional" values. They just can't cope any other way.
 
2012-09-07 07:48:33 AM  
Yeah, my TeaTard father in law rants and raves about federal student loans all the time.

Fun Fact: His father broke a cycle of multi-generational poverty and moved his family into the middle class by getting a college education via federally funded GI Bill.
 
2012-09-07 07:51:04 AM  
I'll give him some credit; at least he appears to have given a proper apology, instead of the usual non-pology we get.
 
2012-09-07 08:00:56 AM  

InmanRoshi: via federally funded GI Bill.


To the camps!
 
2012-09-07 08:24:01 AM  
I didn't finish RTFA, but I am so sick of these conspiracy theorists getting into office. Democrats should use this example to mobilize our base. If I had heard that my representative said something like this, I would knock on 1000 doors to make sure EVERYONE knew he said that. This man should not see another term in office.

/Maybe I am just Grumpy and Sleepy today
//tomorrow I will be Sneezy
///day afterPrez. O wins another term, I will be Happy
////Do I owe Disney any money now?
 
2012-09-07 08:25:04 AM  

Slaves2Darkness: [you read this already]

Oh please, like the rest of the First World does not have their elected retards who say stupid shiat. You assume that the rest of the world gives a shiat about anything but our money. Hint they don't. As long as we keep importing their crap, and allowing them to buy our bonds, they don't give a flying fark about who is in charge.

Anyway you want to know what the political ramifications of future shock are? Look at the Republican party, these people aren't all stupid the world is just changing too fast for them to adjust. It is why the end up saying stupid shiat and double down on "family" or "traditional" values. They just can't cope any other way.


Speaking from my little part of the rest of the world, who's in charge does matter. Foreign policy is maybe a third of the job. Many Americans don't know that because 'why? it's not America...' Your money is nice, if not a little bland; all the same colour and size and all, but it's not the only shiat the rest of the world gives.

Your point about the Republicans crystallizes what's been rattling around in my brain looking for the right words for a while now. Thank you.
 
2012-09-07 08:29:34 AM  

Wyalt Derp: I'll give him some credit; at least he appears to have given a proper apology, instead of the usual non-pology we get.


No, the usual "may have offended" weasel words are there at the end.

At least he may actually lose this fall. Yvette Clarke is virtually unopposed.

EvilRacistNaziFascist: What the senator in TFA was saying -- clumsily expressed tho' it may have been -- is that the federal government has no place in taking on big projects of any kind when these can reasonably be devolved to a lower level of authority; and that an unconstitutional concentration of power at the federal level is, in the long term and in the broadest sense, potentially dangerous.


Then that's what he should have said. Members of Congress have press secretaries and so forth for a reason - so that they don't enstupidate themselves (to coin a word).

And rule number one for press secretaries is: no Nazi references unless your boss is actually discussing World War II or reviewing "Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS."
 
2012-09-07 08:29:56 AM  

Firethorn: How long ago was this? It's the second one that's causing the problem right now, there are increasing numbers of students graduating with $100k+ in those loans. You can't save that kind of money working part time. It takes decades to pay off - while you're trying to buy a house, often a car, etc...


Received my BA in '95 (UMass Amherst). I spent two years at a local community college prior to that to get all my core classes done (Pell Grants covered those two years for the most part).

I had to go back to school in 2004 (same community college I attended right after high school) after an eventful decade, which had me working in Ireland for about 5 years, returning to the states, working shiatty jobs until I found a decent one in Boston, which I was laid off from in 2004. I went back to the same community college I attended after high school to take things in a different direction. Took me two years working part-time jobs to finish that degree and I was able to parley one of the numerous unpaid internships I did into a job and that experience allowed me to start up a freelance business a few years later.

I didn't own a car until I was well into my 30s or a home until I was almost 40.

The point is, I didn't go to a high price University and I used a local community college to finish my core classes before transferring to a 4 year school. I had jobs the entire time I was in school, and while they certainly didn't pay enough to pay for my education, they were great ways to pay rent, buy books, etc..

I honestly don't know if any of that would have been possible if it weren't for the grants and loans I was able to take advantage of. That's pretty much all I'm saying.
 
2012-09-07 08:45:56 AM  

MFAWG: dookdookdook: THIS is how you Godwin a debate without ending up sounding like a douchebag:

South Carolina Democratic Party Chairman Dick Harpootlian compared South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley (R) to Hitler's mistress on Wednesday, The State reports. "She was down in the bunker a la Eva Braun," Harpootlian said, according to The State.

In an interview with CNN on Wednesday evening, Harpootlian said he won't be apologizing for his comments.

"Hell no. What am I apologizing for?," he told CNN. "This is fake. Nikki Haley is feigning this. There is not a sincere bone in her body."

"I wasn't trying to insinuate that Nikki was a Nazi," Harpootlian continued. "I was saying that she was hanging out in an insular bunker in Charlotte when she won't give access to the press here in South Carolina ... So she has some hurt feelings? I didn't know she had feelings."

No, he sounds like a douchebag too. It's not that I disagree with the sentiment, but he could have made the point better.


I agree. But, Harpootlian isn't an "elected official." He represents the NC democrats, but not the general public. I expect Reince Priebus and the like to say partisan things. However, I expect our elected officials to not be nutjob crazy.
 
2012-09-07 08:46:57 AM  

sno man: We're not laughing at you, were laughing with you...
Actually that's not true either, but when you are ready to join the rest of the first world, rather than the third, we're here...


We want to join but these GOP thugs are holding us back.
 
2012-09-07 08:51:32 AM  
In the video he keeps quoting Article I Section 8, which is the enumerated powers of congress. He apparently thinks only the list in Section 8 are the powers of congress. He obviously is forgetting the last one, "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."

So to promote the general welfare is also a power.
 
2012-09-07 09:11:47 AM  
Glad we spent 100 posts here ridiculing the GOP instead of discussing the massive problem that student loans have become. A trillion dollars in debt to produce a generation of people with either no skills or skills that can be done cheaper overseas. And hell, when the necessary defense cuts come through, those engineering/math jobs might not be so available either.

But no, let's keep laughing at the GOP. We're so much better than they are.
 
2012-09-07 09:20:05 AM  

MattStafford: Glad we spent 100 posts here ridiculing the GOP instead of discussing the massive problem that student loans have become. A trillion dollars in debt to produce a generation of people with either no skills or skills that can be done cheaper overseas. And hell, when the necessary defense cuts come through, those engineering/math jobs might not be so available either.

But no, let's keep laughing at the GOP. We're so much better than they are.


MAXIMUM SPECULATION! MINIMUM PROOF!

Must be what keeps your hair up.

But seriously, the solution is obviously to cut funding or raise interest rates. When keeping the status quo from getting worse if all you have time to do thanks to the know-nothings in the GOP, what do you expect? Also, I liked your idea for fixing it. No, the other. Nope, not that either. The other one. Yeah, that one. You hit the nail right on the head.
 
2012-09-07 09:22:54 AM  

MattStafford: Glad we spent 100 posts here ridiculing the GOP instead of discussing the massive problem that student loans have become. A trillion dollars in debt to produce a generation of people with either no skills or skills that can be done cheaper overseas. And hell, when the necessary defense cuts come through, those engineering/math jobs might not be so available either.


Is that really an issue of student loans though rather than free trade and the comparative cost of living between third world and first world countries? Most colleges and universities in the US do a decent job providing higher education, which is why so many foreigners come to our schools to learn (the for-profit schools need to die though). The main issue is how to better distribute the cost of education so it is more affordable while still giving schools the funding to educate ever larger numbers of students.
 
2012-09-07 09:26:28 AM  

Gwyrddu: The main issue is how to better distribute the cost of education so it is more affordable while still giving schools the funding to educate ever larger numbers of students.


GET.
RID.
OF.
ATHLETIC.
DEPARTMENTS.
 
2012-09-07 09:28:12 AM  

coeyagi: But seriously, the solution is obviously to cut funding or raise interest rates. When keeping the status quo from getting worse if all you have time to do thanks to the know-nothings in the GOP, what do you expect? Also, I liked your idea for fixing it. No, the other. Nope, not that either. The other one. Yeah, that one. You hit the nail right on the head.


"When keeping the status quo from getting worse if all you have time to do thanks to the know-nothings in the GOP, what do you expect?"

That sentence appears to be missing something.

Solution? There is no solution. We're farked. My solution is some sort of debt jubilee, which would crush our economy. This isn't a situation you can get out of except through some extremely painful measures.
 
2012-09-07 09:30:57 AM  

keylock71: Received my BA in '95 (UMass Amherst). I spent two years at a local community college prior to that to get all my core classes done (Pell Grants covered those two years for the most part).


From what I understand, things have changed quite a bit in the last 7 years.

I didn't own a car until I was well into my 30s or a home until I was almost 40.

By that measure, I'm somewhat more successful. Subtract 10 years from both of those. I have my degree now, but I didn't when I got my current job, and it doesn't require a degree(though they like it).

The point is, I didn't go to a high price University and I used a local community college to finish my core classes before transferring to a 4 year school. I had jobs the entire time I was in school, and while they certainly didn't pay enough to pay for my education, they were great ways to pay rent, buy books, etc..

And you went through it the cheap way - there are lots that don't. Not having the life experience, not all know HOW to do it the cheap way.
 
2012-09-07 09:32:48 AM  

Gwyrddu: Is that really an issue of student loans though rather than free trade and the comparative cost of living between third world and first world countries? Most colleges and universities in the US do a decent job providing higher education, which is why so many foreigners come to our schools to learn (the for-profit schools need to die though). The main issue is how to better distribute the cost of education so it is more affordable while still giving schools the funding to educate ever larger numbers of students


Sure, there is the issue that we are in a globalized economy and are forced to compete with human capital that can live off of a far lower wage.

Our issue is trying to give every kid a college education. Not every kid needs to go to college. There should not be a stigma on not going to college, yet we've created one through our public education system and government policies. Take a look at some European school systems. They have different tracks for different students [I know we do as well, but ours (at least mine) carry a bad stigma, and are looked down upon]. This idea that we need to send every kid to school, even if they are majoring in underwater basket weaving is completely idiotic.
 
2012-09-07 09:51:11 AM  

47 is the new 42: Chimperror2: coeyagi: I was unaware the constitution prohibited the government from getting involved in student loans. Who knew?

The constitution doesn't prohibit federal government, it enables it. Items not enabled are reserved to the states. Some people think the commerce clause for trade between states enables everything and anything. Who knew?

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

I think making sure our citizens have the opportunity to be educated at all levels is providing for the general welfare of the United States.


Annnnnnnnnnnd. No. That;s why they never ask what you think.. Go look it up. Not what you think it means and there is over 200 years of legal opinion to back it up. While your at it, you can look up the justification for student loan laws. "General welfare" is not there. Powers are expressly enumerated not drawn from the preamble, Even when primary and secondary schools became "free" it wasn't the feds running it and funding it.
 
2012-09-07 09:53:03 AM  

EyeballKid: GET. RID. OF. ATHLETIC. DEPARTMENTS.


You know, I have to wonder: How did we, from like the '50s-'80s manage to provide both a quality education AND have athletic departments? There's always the problem when an athletic department 'takes over' and consumes too much resources, but I think that a proper athletic department is good for a school.

Of course, at that point the 'athletic department' is more running a 'PT program', of which schools that eliminated it in favor of more classes found that they didn't increase academic performance, indeed they suffered increased disciplinary problems, and vice versa with instituting exercise programs - academic performance often INCREASED, while disciplinary problems dropped like a stone. That's before you figure in better health, fewer missed days, etc...
 
2012-09-07 10:09:23 AM  

MattStafford: Our issue is trying to give every kid a college education. Not every kid needs to go to college. There should not be a stigma on not going to college, yet we've created one through our public education system and government policies. Take a look at some European school systems. They have different tracks for different students [I know we do as well, but ours (at least mine) carry a bad stigma, and are looked down upon]. This idea that we need to send every kid to school, even if they are majoring in underwater basket weaving is completely idiotic.


Well our number one government employer, the military doesn't require a college education, and that is a pretty well respected career in most but not all social circles. I don't know what you expect government to do in this regard, increasing number of jobs in the US do need some post-secondary education, and they aren't responsible for whatever stigma is attached to educational choices or parental expectations for that matter. Whether any student chooses to go to college or not, the option to go to college should be there assuming the student is capable of learning in a college environment (which is most people).
 
2012-09-07 10:10:35 AM  

MattStafford: Glad we spent 100 posts here ridiculing the GOP instead of discussing the massive problem that student loans have become. A trillion dollars in debt to produce a generation of people with either no skills or skills that can be done cheaper overseas. And hell, when the necessary defense cuts come through, those engineering/math jobs might not be so available either.

But no, let's keep laughing at the GOP. We're so much better than they are.


So vote Republican and spend that trillion dollars sending those kids off to make war on Iran, instead? Good plan.
 
2012-09-07 10:20:13 AM  
The massive amounts of private debt people are being stuck with is a slippery slope, but I'm thinking we're headed more towards something resembling the French Revolution than anything else.
 
2012-09-07 10:20:58 AM  

EyeballKid: Well, there was hiring going on back when you graduated from college? That must have been nice. College intuitions in themselves are a scam, if you consider they go up every year regardless of their real value*.


That doesn't make them a scam, and that everyone that goes to college doesn't benefit financially, and in fact can lose out a lot, also doesn't suggest that. In an open market (and making the assumption it cannot achieve close to perfect competition) the price of education would rise to just under the risk adjusted long term average financial benefit of what they are selling - and this could even mean more than half of people going to college could lose out financially from doing so, as long as enough students won big enough to make it a "good bet".

Of course most countries realise that to compete in a modern global economy, subsidizing and/or regulating pricing of education to cause an economic oversupply tends to be better in the long term than leaving the market to itself, as it leads to a relatively highly skilled, well educated populace that attracts and develops the sort of high value high skilled industries that pay lots of tax and helps with strengthening exports/reducing imports and other beneficial things that outweigh the costs (both direct and the opportunity costs from having a wealthier education sector to tax, etc.)
 
2012-09-07 10:22:20 AM  

Gwyrddu: Well our number one government employer, the military doesn't require a college education, and that is a pretty well respected career in most but not all social circles.


And the engineers that build the tools that military uses?

Gwyrddu: increasing number of jobs in the US do need some post-secondary education


Because of the education they receive in college, or because a college degree is becoming standard. I would suggest the latter. As the government sends more and more people to college, a college degree is worth less and less.

Gwyrddu: and they aren't responsible for whatever stigma is attached to educational choices or parental expectations for that matter.


You don't think the government promotes college education? They say in speeches that they are trying to get as many kids to go to college as possible, and that everyone should receive a college education. You don't think that creates a stigma against those that don't want to go?

Gwyrddu: Whether any student chooses to go to college or not, the option to go to college should be there assuming the student is capable of learning in a college environment (which is most people).


Which is part of the problem. College should not be easy. Not everyone should be able to go to college. The vast majority of jobs out there do not require a college education (they might require the degree, but that is different). We shouldn't dumb down college so everyone can go.
 
2012-09-07 10:22:46 AM  

Firethorn: And you went through it the cheap way - there are lots that don't. Not having the life experience, not all know HOW to do it the cheap way.


Agreed... I had to do it the cheap way. No other choice, really. My mom raised my sister and I alone on the salary of a municipal employee (She worked at the local public library from the time she was 18 until she died at 58). Being lower middle class certainly allowed me to gain a number of life experiences early on, that's for sure. : )

I look at my friends who went into the trades right out of high school... Most of them are broken down, physically, and aren't doing much better than myself at the moment (except the plumbers... Those motherfarkers are rolling in it. They're also rolling in human feces a lot, but that's another conversation).

I don't know what the solution is, honestly... All I know is I've benefited in my life from things like Federal student loans and grants, and I'd like the generations of lower middle class kids coming after me to benefit from those things, as well.
 
2012-09-07 10:24:58 AM  

Trapper439: So vote Republican and spend that trillion dollars sending those kids off to make war on Iran, instead? Good plan.


Yeah, that is exactly what I advocate. Oh wait, I think the debt being piled up by the military is just as big of an issue as any other debt on unproductive ventures, and is morally reprehensible to boot. Maybe if you stopped being a partisan farkhead and actually looked at the problems facing this country than just assuming your team is right and anyone who disagrees with you is on the other team and is wrong, we might get something done.
 
2012-09-07 10:29:10 AM  
Lets see:

Loan lots of money to just about anybody without reguard to their ability to repay - Check

Little or no over site of how they spend the money - Check

No way this is could to lead to another giant debit crisis requiring the Government to bail out finincial instutions who should have know better, transfering money from those who were responsible to those who were not. No way that could happen.

/10 years or less to the college debt bailout.
 
2012-09-07 10:44:38 AM  

Trapper439:
So vote Republican and spend that trillion dollars sending those kids off to make war on Iran, instead? Good plan.



W may have started the wars but why is spending trippled under Obama? 

Link
 
2012-09-07 10:48:20 AM  

pdee: Lets see:

Loan lots of money to just about anybody without reguard to their ability to repay - Check

Little or no over site of how they spend the money - Check

No way this is could to lead to another giant debit crisis requiring the Government to bail out finincial instutions who should have know better, transfering money from those who were responsible to those who were not. No way that could happen.

/10 years or less to the college debt bailout.


Should have been done before the banks' bailout, and would have cost less. Oh, if only college loan debtors could have bought a cabinet position and several House/Senate members like the banks did!!
 
2012-09-07 10:55:30 AM  

Gwyrddu: Well our number one government employer, the military doesn't require a college education


It's one of the larger employers, yes, but I figure that it isn't the largest. The DoD has dwindled to 773k, 2,777k non-military employees.source.

For every military member, you have ~3 non-military.

keylock71: I don't know what the solution is, honestly... All I know is I've benefited in my life from things like Federal student loans and grants, and I'd like the generations of lower middle class kids coming after me to benefit from those things, as well.


The problem that I see is that college education is a bit like home loans - people don't buy what they can afford, they buy what they can get a loan for. And there's plenty of colleges willing to charge what students are able to get a loan for. We've pushed college education to the point that, in some ways, we have too many college grads - they're now working jobs that shouldn't need a college education and are being paid accordingly crappy. It's basic economics - increasing supply(college) gets more expensive per unit after a certain point, while increased supply results in lower prices on the demand side(no shortage).

Basically: Almost no college grads; they can actually be almost free; but will demand a heavy premium in the job market. If you want everybody to be a 'college grad', it's going to cost huge amounts of money, and a college education becomes almost meaningless as a job skill.

Colleges, for all their protests, haven't been controlling costs like they realistically should have been able to.
 
2012-09-07 10:56:08 AM  

Lorelle: EvilRacistNaziFascist: What the senator in TFA was saying -- clumsily expressed tho' it may have been -- blah blah blah longwinded weak response in defense of nutbag Congressman

Nah. What he said is this:

"Not that it's not a good idea to give students loans; it certainly is a good idea to give them loans. But if you can ignore the Constitution to do something good today, tomorrow you will be ignoring the Constitution to do something bad. You could. There are more people in our, in America today of German ancestry than any other [inaudible]. The Holocaust that occurred in Germany - how in the heck could that happen? And when you start down the wrong road, it can be a very slippery slope."

I heard it loud and clear right here.


All I'm reading is that Americans of German ancestry can't be trusted and should be locked up otherwise we'll turn into Nazi Germany. It's in their genes.
 
2012-09-07 10:57:13 AM  

Firethorn: Colleges, for all their protests, haven't been controlling costs like they realistically should have been able to.


Why would they want to control costs? It has been shown that whatever they raise their tuition to, government will cover the loans, so why worry?
 
2012-09-07 11:09:41 AM  

MattStafford: Firethorn: Colleges, for all their protests, haven't been controlling costs like they realistically should have been able to.

Why would they want to control costs? It has been shown that whatever they raise their tuition to, government will cover the loans, so why worry?


Exactly. Which is why the only real way to control college costs will be to restrict the availability of loans. That will mean fewer college attendees; but they'll have a better prospect of a job after graduation and more sustainable loan expenses when they graduate.

I'm fond of the idea of more technical schools and apprenticeships.
 
2012-09-07 11:13:40 AM  

MattStafford: Gwyrddu: Well our number one government employer, the military doesn't require a college education, and that is a pretty well respected career in most but not all social circles.

And the engineers that build the tools that military uses?


I'm not sure what you are getting at here. Do you expect people to become engineers without a higher education.


Because of the education they receive in college, or because a college degree is becoming standard. I would suggest the latter. As the government sends more and more people to college, a college degree is worth less and less.

It's both. Civilization is becoming more intricate and simple tasks are ever easier to automate, leaving the tasks that require more education for human employees. At the same time, good paying jobs are becoming scarcer for a number of reasons which allows businesses to become more picky. Business is also terrible at evaluating the true worth of candidates, which makes them more likely to weed out resumes based on education level as a simple shortcut. None of these problems would really be solved by cutting back on college education by the way, it would most likely just benefit the people with the most money to put people through college.

You don't think the government promotes college education? They say in speeches that they are trying to get as many kids to go to college as possible, and that everyone should receive a college education. You don't think that creates a stigma against those that don't want to go?

The stigma would still exist whether the government said anything about it or not. The government is just responding to the demands of employers and the international marketplace which is calling on a more educated workforce.

Which is part of the problem. College should not be easy. Not everyone should be able to go to college. The vast majority of jobs out there do not require a college education (they might require the degree, but that is different). We shouldn't dumb down college so everyone can go.

Nobody is saying to dumb down colleges or loosen academic requirements. The question is how to loosen monetary requirements of college so the US becomes more of a meritocracy and less a plutocratic society. The only part of higher education that should be academically easy to get into are community colleges, which can act as a feeder to prepare students for more academically challenging programs elsewhere even if their primary education failed to do so.
 
2012-09-07 11:29:14 AM  

Firethorn: Basically: Almost no college grads; they can actually be almost free; but will demand a heavy premium in the job market. If you want everybody to be a 'college grad', it's going to cost huge amounts of money, and a college education becomes almost meaningless as a job skill.


This is why I've really been a proponent of Community Colleges for years... When I look back over my academic life, the skills that I'm using everyday now and are paying my mortgage, health insurance, bills, car, etc. were learned at the Community College I attended. I learned a lot of theory at UMass Amherst, and it's been useful to a point, but the nitty gritty hands-on stuff was taught to me by Community College instructors, who were also professionals in the field I was studying. Plus they helped me get internships. All of that at a fraction of the cost of even a state University.

Not to mention, I now also teach a couple of classes at the same community college, passing on what I learned to a new generation of kids interested in the same field.
 
2012-09-07 11:32:42 AM  

Firethorn: Exactly. Which is why the only real way to control college costs will be to restrict the availability of loans. That will mean fewer college attendees; but they'll have a better prospect of a job after graduation and more sustainable loan expenses when they graduate.


Private loans would just fill in the need and balloon the student debt crisis even further. Also, I don't think their job prospects of college graduates wouldn't be as good as you think. Education can also give you the tools to create jobs and not just fill them. A college graduate is still better off in Silicon Valley for example than in Mississippi, even if the latter has much fewer college graduates to compete with.
 
2012-09-07 12:33:34 PM  

MattStafford: coeyagi: But seriously, the solution is obviously to cut funding or raise interest rates. When keeping the status quo from getting worse if all you have time to do thanks to the know-nothings in the GOP, what do you expect? Also, I liked your idea for fixing it. No, the other. Nope, not that either. The other one. Yeah, that one. You hit the nail right on the head.

"When keeping the status quo from getting worse if all you have time to do thanks to the know-nothings in the GOP, what do you expect?"

That sentence appears to be missing something.

Solution? There is no solution. We're farked. My solution is some sort of debt jubilee, which would crush our economy. This isn't a situation you can get out of except through some extremely painful measures.


IF should be IS, then it's missing nothing.
 
2012-09-07 01:44:32 PM  

BronyMedic:
We are raising our third generation of BET and MTV addicts, people who would rather watch such gems as Jersey Shore than focus on things like Math, Science, and History.

When we have people like this, the fact we have conspiracy theory douchebags who claim that we're one step away from setting up Concentration Camps really shouldn't be suprising.


You spend far too much time looking down your nose on people on the internet. This is patently false, crap like this has ALWAYS existed in some form or another, and in fact intelligence scores have consistently risen from generation to generation. And as for that other part that I'm quoting, every government has their whackjobs, PARTICULARLY the English, which most educated Brits will point out.
 
2012-09-07 02:16:40 PM  
I'm stoked about this election. I'm in the redistricted area, so I actually get a chance to help oust this jackwagon.
 
2012-09-07 02:49:30 PM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: BronyMedic: America is the laughing stock of the world right now. I firmly believe this.

You're a grown adult who watches a kids' show about magic ponies. Who are you to complain about being a laughing stock?


ERNF, you might want to read up on the genetic fallacy.
 
2012-09-07 08:40:28 PM  

Empty Matchbook: You spend far too much time looking down your nose on people on the internet. This is patently false, crap like this has ALWAYS existed in some form or another, and in fact intelligence scores have consistently risen from generation to generation.


Uh, you might want to check your facts on that.

Empty Matchbook: And as for that other part that I'm quoting, every government has their whackjobs, PARTICULARLY the English, which most educated Brits will point out.


Last I checked, willful stupidity wasn't a celebrated past-time of the British people. The Republican Party, and to a lesser extent - the Democratic Party - both cherish it.
 
2012-09-08 06:48:18 AM  

Gwyrddu: Private loans would just fill in the need and balloon the student debt crisis even further.


Private loans wouldn't be a problem if you make them like unsecured debt in a bankruptcy; they'd provide proper rigor because otherwise they'd lose their money. It was partially government involvement that caused the home loan crisis(remember, Fannie May and Freddie Mac were set up by the government)

Also, I don't think their job prospects of college graduates wouldn't be as good as you think. Education can also give you the tools to create jobs and not just fill them. A college graduate is still better off in Silicon Valley for example than in Mississippi, even if the latter has much fewer college graduates to compete with.

Silicon Valley doesn't exist in a vacuum though; neither does Mississippi though. Silicon Valley is a centralized location for employing college grads; much like what universities themselves do. It wouldn't exist as it does without the world market. If Mississippi WAS the world market, a Silicon Valley equivalent would pop up within it. For that matter, it doesn't just request college grads; those who truly make it big - Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and numerous others are all college dropouts. Even the college grads it takes is a very specific subset of the college grad section - and one can argue that the types of people they recruit are amongst the first to go to college. IE we aren't getting that many more of them if we send *everyone*. For that matter, if we send everyone, suddenly plumbers, machinists, electricians, wood workers, would be worth their weight in gold.

It's all about balance. It can be quite tricky, balancing human talent and education with the job market. Some career fields, normally those hard for most humans, are perpetually in demand with low single digit unemployment. Others require practically nothing and has applicants coming out their ears. Managing our labor pool is both a policy and technological issue(yes, management is ultimately a technology, or at least should be).
 
2012-09-09 04:38:54 PM  

BronyMedic: Empty Matchbook: You spend far too much time looking down your nose on people on the internet. This is patently false, crap like this has ALWAYS existed in some form or another, and in fact intelligence scores have consistently risen from generation to generation.

Uh, you might want to check your facts on that.


Hey! So might you! Link And the link that you pointed to admits that it's own methodology has gaping holes (as does mine, I'm sure), so I guess we're at a zero-sum here.

Empty Matchbook: And as for that other part that I'm quoting, every government has their whackjobs, PARTICULARLY the English, which most educated Brits will point out.

Last I checked, willful stupidity wasn't a celebrated past-time of the British people. The Republican Party, and to a lesser extent - the Democratic Party - both cherish it.


I'll agree with one party actively encouraging, feeding on stupidity, and electing stupidity (and a chunk of the country openly celebrating it) but that doesn't cancel out whackjobs overseas. And it makes for better television, so it tends to get played up.
 
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