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(Labspaces.net)   Scientists have succeeded in completing a 143 kilometer teleportation. Unfortunately, the data turned inside out. And exploded   (labspaces.net) divider line 184
    More: Interesting, Tenerife, Chinese Academy of Sciences, quantum information processing, quantum states, University of Waterloo, optical fibers, quantum physics, Anton Zeilinger  
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20837 clicks; posted to Geek » on 06 Sep 2012 at 3:06 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-06 01:45:29 PM  
Bones McCoy nods knowingly
 
2012-09-06 01:56:11 PM  
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-09-06 01:56:23 PM  
Never give up. Never surrender.
 
2012-09-06 01:57:12 PM  
By Grabthar's Hammer, what a headline.
 
2012-09-06 02:21:33 PM  
I love this thread already.
 
2012-09-06 02:23:50 PM  
Glad to see I'm not the only one thinking of the poor pig lizard...

cdn5.movieclips.com

/hot - like I'd imagine the steaming pile of p-l guts to be
 
2012-09-06 02:24:21 PM  
Brundlefly?
 
2012-09-06 02:28:56 PM  
So, I don't have to worry about rush hour anymore?

/should probably RTFA
 
2012-09-06 02:39:14 PM  

HST's Dead Carcass: So, I don't have to worry about rush hour anymore?

/should probably RTFA


Maybe won't have to wait so long to download 9 TB of porn, at any rate...

/the "matter transportation" happens later
 
2012-09-06 03:06:52 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: Brundlefly?


www.tentonhammer.com
 
2012-09-06 03:07:45 PM  

slayer199: [25.media.tumblr.com image 500x281]


Came for this. Leaving extremely satisfied.
 
2012-09-06 03:10:00 PM  
Sounds like an awesome weapon.
 
2012-09-06 03:10:39 PM  
i291.photobucket.com

i291.photobucket.com

The sounds those things made scarred me for LIFE!
 
2012-09-06 03:12:47 PM  
Wait till TSA gets a hold of this.
 
2012-09-06 03:13:16 PM  
moviesmedia.ign.com

"It wasn't your fault, Rand."

/RIP Cmdr. Sonak
 
2012-09-06 03:13:21 PM  
We sure are getting good at this whole information thing. But we still fly turbofans on aluminum alloy airplanes.
 
2012-09-06 03:15:49 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: We sure are getting good at this whole information thing. But we still fly turbofans on aluminum alloy airplanes.


And we don't live 1,000 years, either.

FTFA: The experiment is a major step towards satellite-based quantum communication

Isn't this where you remind us that nothing useful ever came out of space exploration or technology? Because they seem to be going down that path.
 
2012-09-06 03:16:39 PM  
As long as we're not doing episode 86

/I die in that one
 
2012-09-06 03:17:11 PM  
GORIGNAK! GORIGNAK! GORIGNAK! GORIGNAK!
 
2012-09-06 03:18:00 PM  
wonder if they'll come up with transparent aluminum next
 
2012-09-06 03:19:19 PM  
www.movieactors.com

Why didn't anyone tell me my ass was so big?!?!
 
2012-09-06 03:20:37 PM  
Wait!! Look around you, see if you can't form some sort of rudeamentry lathe.
 
2012-09-06 03:21:22 PM  
Unfortunately, the data turned inside out. And exploded

Well, they've only done this once before.

/Safety not guaranteed.
 
2012-09-06 03:21:37 PM  

Thanks for the Meme-ries: [i291.photobucket.com image 799x342]

[i291.photobucket.com image 320x320]

The sounds those things made scarred me for LIFE!


Of course the most disturbing part is the question of what happens from your point of view when you get transported. You'd think that from your POV, you die instantly as you are torn apart on a atomic level and that the person that is reconstituted on the other end only think they are you because they have all of your memories. There'd just be no way to know what happens from a person's perspective.
 
2012-09-06 03:22:07 PM  
Just an FYI-
 
2012-09-06 03:22:15 PM  
Sweet. the long, hard road of getting groped by a TSA agent before beaming to grandma's in a few milliseconds is upon us!
 
2012-09-06 03:24:03 PM  
About time they got cracking on that ansible thing.
 
2012-09-06 03:27:39 PM  
This episode was badly written!
 
2012-09-06 03:29:55 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: We sure are getting good at this whole information thing. But we still fly turbofans on aluminum alloy airplanes.


Hey, NASA almost got a scramjet working not too long ago.
 
2012-09-06 03:30:37 PM  

Cybernetic: Unfortunately, the data turned inside out. And exploded

Well, they've only done this once before.

/Safety not guaranteed.


vaneeesab.files.wordpress.com

"Have you ever faced certain death?"

"If it was so certain, I wouldn't be here, would I?"
 
2012-09-06 03:30:38 PM  
so the unit of measurement is 9Tof porn=5 minutes ?
 
2012-09-06 03:30:49 PM  

CheetahOlivetti: I love this thread already.


What posts did make it through didn't last long
 
2012-09-06 03:30:58 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Thanks for the Meme-ries: [i291.photobucket.com image 799x342]

[i291.photobucket.com image 320x320]

The sounds those things made scarred me for LIFE!

Of course the most disturbing part is the question of what happens from your point of view when you get transported. You'd think that from your POV, you die instantly as you are torn apart on a atomic level and that the person that is reconstituted on the other end only think they are you because they have all of your memories. There'd just be no way to know what happens from a person's perspective.


Hey, the equations must balance. Them's the rules.
 
2012-09-06 03:31:34 PM  

liam76: About time they got cracking on that ansible thing.


If I recall correctly, quantum teleportation is still limited by c.

The problem with the ansible is that (if I'm remembering my quantum right: It's been 2 years since graduate quantum), when you entangle to particles-measuring one causes the *wave function* of the other to collapse: but you cannot control *how* it does so. (That is, I can measure an entangled particle and go "aha! This one has momentum X.. sot he other must have momentum -X, and its wave function has now collapsed! But I cannot go "I will ADD momentum X to my particle, causing the other to have momentum -X!")

Now, you might go "Wait! But if we can choose to collapse some wave functions, but not others, we could still use that as the basis for sending ones and zeroes!"
But, again, that doesn't quite work: because (again, I'm pretty sure I'm remembering this right), you cannot measure to see if the waveform has collapsed yet. . I *think*. I definately recall a lecture explaining why the ansible couldn't work, but I admit I may be getting the details a bit wrong. =/.
 
2012-09-06 03:32:39 PM  
Scientists from the Institute for Quantum Computing were a part of this! In fact, the lab of the researcher involved is right across from my office.

http://iqc.uwaterloo.ca/news-events/archive/quantum-teleportation-goe s -the-distance
 
2012-09-06 03:33:04 PM  
What I found as a "well then what's the point" is FTFA:
"In an active feed-forward protocol, conventional data is sent alongside the quantum information, enabling the recipient to decipher the transferred signal with a higher efficiency."

Does that mean there's also a standard type of transmission in parallel? If so, then why bother with the quantum action at a distance for the transmission.?
 
2012-09-06 03:34:01 PM  

Felgraf: liam76: About time they got cracking on that ansible thing.

If I recall correctly, quantum teleportation is still limited by c.

The problem with the ansible is that (if I'm remembering my quantum right: It's been 2 years since graduate quantum), when you entangle to particles-measuring one causes the *wave function* of the other to collapse: but you cannot control *how* it does so. (That is, I can measure an entangled particle and go "aha! This one has momentum X.. sot he other must have momentum -X, and its wave function has now collapsed! But I cannot go "I will ADD momentum X to my particle, causing the other to have momentum -X!")

Now, you might go "Wait! But if we can choose to collapse some wave functions, but not others, we could still use that as the basis for sending ones and zeroes!"
But, again, that doesn't quite work: because (again, I'm pretty sure I'm remembering this right), you cannot measure to see if the waveform has collapsed yet. . I *think*. I definately recall a lecture explaining why the ansible couldn't work, but I admit I may be getting the details a bit wrong. =/.


A serious question for more quantumly-inclined farkers: Wouldn't heisenberg's uncertainty principle basically prevent the disassembly and reassembly concept of teleportation? Either that, or you're reassembling someone who's going to be immediately at absolute zero (from a lack of molecular movement, because if you can find the position you can't find the momentum, therefore everything assembles at zero motion)?
 
2012-09-06 03:36:38 PM  
capital punishment potential?
 
2012-09-06 03:36:49 PM  

Thanks for the Meme-ries: [i291.photobucket.com image 799x342]

[i291.photobucket.com image 320x320]

The sounds those things made scarred me for LIFE!


I know, right? That noise and the noise the creature in Forbidden Planet gives me the willies
 
2012-09-06 03:37:28 PM  
Sadly yeah, teleportation is almost certainly completely impossible. To reconstitute a brain you would have to reconstitute not only the cells but electrical charges and stuff. I hate to say never but it's never going to happen. You could jump through a wormhole or pop into hyperspace, of course. Much easier than true teleportation.
 
2012-09-06 03:37:54 PM  

HST's Dead Carcass: So, I don't have to worry about rush hour anymore?

/should probably RTFA


Wouldn't matter. It's one of those weird articles that makes no sense even when you read it twice.
 
2012-09-06 03:38:24 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Quantum Apostrophe: We sure are getting good at this whole information thing. But we still fly turbofans on aluminum alloy airplanes.

Hey, NASA almost got a scramjet working not too long ago.


Oh Jesus, the same scramjets we've had working for decades? Experimentally? Where they blow up or malfunction after a few minutes because of limits of materials and engineering?

And we don't even have Concorde anymore, but we'll have magical scramjets? Right?

Carousel Beast: Isn't this where you remind us that nothing useful ever came out of space exploration or technology? Because they seem to be going down that path.


Interesting twisted logic. Are you telling me the scientists did this research so people could live on the Moon?

Seems to me it's the usual "we find something here first, then apply it to space later" thing. Just like with everything else related to space...

And how is putting a satellite in orbit, where we already have shiat tons of satellites, "exploring"? Isn't that exploring done since decades? We're just using LEO and GEO to bounce signals around.

...and ???? Does this lead to manned space colonies? Hmmm? Does it?

This isn't a new material, it isn't a new energy source.

It's signal processing. The only thing that we've improved by orders and orders of magnitude since WWII.

Carousel Beast: And we don't live 1,000 years, either.


If that's your argument, I can say "we don't live on Mars either", right?

Except I have that whole physics thing on my side.

You don't.

So sorry.

thesmatter.files.wordpress.com

Now I'm going kayaking, biking, walking and all the things you won't be able to do in space...
 
2012-09-06 03:39:43 PM  

Somaticasual: A serious question for more quantumly-inclined farkers: Wouldn't heisenberg's uncertainty principle basically prevent the disassembly and reassembly concept of teleportation? Either that, or you're reassembling someone who's going to be immediately at absolute zero (from a lack of molecular movement, because if you can find the position you can't find the momentum, therefore everything assembles at zero motion)?


What if you wore a sweater?
 
2012-09-06 03:43:28 PM  
Star Trek didn't invent teleportertation as a way to "wow" us with future as much as a cost-cutting and screentime-saving measure.

Bringing shuttlecraft prop to a set, or worse yet on-site, is expensive and logistically troublesome.

In film, this is the "establishing shot" to tell the audience "OK, now we're on that planet we were talking about". If they just jumped to them walking around on the planet, the transition is too awkward and B-movie-ish.

And when you're using a soundstage, people expect the shuttlecraft to be shown in a DIFFERENT establishing shot of a landing area. That's expensive because a soundstage is a small place and only has a few angles it can work in, and it's only one location. It'll be awkward to step out of the shuttlecraft prop, walk 5 feet, and say "here are the incredibly rare crystals we were looking for, Captain... we're in luck, as always."

Thus the transporter was born. 2 seconds of stock effect and we've completed a theatrical transition.
 
2012-09-06 03:43:35 PM  

Jument: Sadly yeah, teleportation is almost certainly completely impossible. To reconstitute a brain you would have to reconstitute not only the cells but electrical charges and stuff. I hate to say never but it's never going to happen. You could jump through a wormhole or pop into hyperspace, of course. Much easier than true teleportation.


At the very least it could be used for non-living material. Would make supplying the ISS much easier if they didn't have to send a shuttle up every time. Could also have great application in sending disaster relief supplies.

And of course, the most useful purpose, being able to buy alcohol when all the stores have closed up.
 
2012-09-06 03:44:35 PM  
The RIAA is already claiming this has cost them $2 billion.
 
2012-09-06 03:44:42 PM  
An important step towards instantaneous Sacher torte shipping.
 
2012-09-06 03:45:40 PM  
take me apart, take me apart
what a way to roam
but if you have to take me apart to get me there
I'd rather stay at home
 
2012-09-06 03:45:58 PM  

liam76: About time they got cracking on that ansible thing.


Came for the Ender's Game reference, leaving satisfied

/future planetary/lunar rovers communicating with Earth instantly will be cool
 
2012-09-06 03:46:28 PM  

Funzo: The RIAA is already claiming this has cost them $2 billion.


...and Apple is gearing up to sue over the patents
 
2012-09-06 03:46:44 PM  

Somaticasual: Felgraf: liam76: About time they got cracking on that ansible thing.

If I recall correctly, quantum teleportation is still limited by c.

The problem with the ansible is that (if I'm remembering my quantum right: It's been 2 years since graduate quantum), when you entangle to particles-measuring one causes the *wave function* of the other to collapse: but you cannot control *how* it does so. (That is, I can measure an entangled particle and go "aha! This one has momentum X.. sot he other must have momentum -X, and its wave function has now collapsed! But I cannot go "I will ADD momentum X to my particle, causing the other to have momentum -X!")

Now, you might go "Wait! But if we can choose to collapse some wave functions, but not others, we could still use that as the basis for sending ones and zeroes!"
But, again, that doesn't quite work: because (again, I'm pretty sure I'm remembering this right), you cannot measure to see if the waveform has collapsed yet. . I *think*. I definately recall a lecture explaining why the ansible couldn't work, but I admit I may be getting the details a bit wrong. =/.

A serious question for more quantumly-inclined farkers: Wouldn't heisenberg's uncertainty principle basically prevent the disassembly and reassembly concept of teleportation? Either that, or you're reassembling someone who's going to be immediately at absolute zero (from a lack of molecular movement, because if you can find the position you can't find the momentum, therefore everything assembles at zero motion)?


Covered :

i291.photobucket.com

CLICK FOR LINK

/why yes, I am a trekker, why do you ask?
 
2012-09-06 03:47:50 PM  
When do I get my ACU?

/would settle for a Monkeylord
 
2012-09-06 03:48:49 PM  

Oznog: Star Trek didn't invent teleportertation


You could have stopped there, you know :-D
 
2012-09-06 03:48:53 PM  

Thanks for the Meme-ries:

The sounds those things made scarred me for LIFE!


i.imgur.com

Can you believe that original farking movie was rated "G" ?

With that scene of horrific screaming and guts being turned inside out? I'm still scarred too.
 
2012-09-06 03:48:59 PM  

Somaticasual: Felgraf: liam76: About time they got cracking on that ansible thing.

If I recall correctly, quantum teleportation is still limited by c.

The problem with the ansible is that (if I'm remembering my quantum right: It's been 2 years since graduate quantum), when you entangle to particles-measuring one causes the *wave function* of the other to collapse: but you cannot control *how* it does so. (That is, I can measure an entangled particle and go "aha! This one has momentum X.. sot he other must have momentum -X, and its wave function has now collapsed! But I cannot go "I will ADD momentum X to my particle, causing the other to have momentum -X!")

Now, you might go "Wait! But if we can choose to collapse some wave functions, but not others, we could still use that as the basis for sending ones and zeroes!"
But, again, that doesn't quite work: because (again, I'm pretty sure I'm remembering this right), you cannot measure to see if the waveform has collapsed yet. . I *think*. I definately recall a lecture explaining why the ansible couldn't work, but I admit I may be getting the details a bit wrong. =/.

A serious question for more quantumly-inclined farkers: Wouldn't heisenberg's uncertainty principle basically prevent the disassembly and reassembly concept of teleportation? Either that, or you're reassembling someone who's going to be immediately at absolute zero (from a lack of molecular movement, because if you can find the position you can't find the momentum, therefore everything assembles at zero motion)?


Isn't absolute zero theoretical? I mean, I get the idea, but has it ever been created in a lab? And if so, could it be observed?
 
2012-09-06 03:49:51 PM  

Felgraf: liam76: About time they got cracking on that ansible thing.

If I recall correctly, quantum teleportation is still limited by c.

The problem with the ansible is that (if I'm remembering my quantum right: It's been 2 years since graduate quantum), when you entangle to particles-measuring one causes the *wave function* of the other to collapse: but you cannot control *how* it does so. (That is, I can measure an entangled particle and go "aha! This one has momentum X.. sot he other must have momentum -X, and its wave function has now collapsed! But I cannot go "I will ADD momentum X to my particle, causing the other to have momentum -X!")

Now, you might go "Wait! But if we can choose to collapse some wave functions, but not others, we could still use that as the basis for sending ones and zeroes!"
But, again, that doesn't quite work: because (again, I'm pretty sure I'm remembering this right), you cannot measure to see if the waveform has collapsed yet. . I *think*. I definately recall a lecture explaining why the ansible couldn't work, but I admit I may be getting the details a bit wrong. =/.


When you talk that way, I get hard.
 
2012-09-06 03:49:56 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Now I'm going kayaking, biking, walking and all the things you won't be able to do in space...


With that kind of attitude the world would still be flat and we'd all be living in africa.
 
2012-09-06 03:51:10 PM  

SpiceWeaselElzar: Somaticasual: Felgraf: liam76: About time they got cracking on that ansible thing.

If I recall correctly, quantum teleportation is still limited by c.

The problem with the ansible is that (if I'm remembering my quantum right: It's been 2 years since graduate quantum), when you entangle to particles-measuring one causes the *wave function* of the other to collapse: but you cannot control *how* it does so. (That is, I can measure an entangled particle and go "aha! This one has momentum X.. sot he other must have momentum -X, and its wave function has now collapsed! But I cannot go "I will ADD momentum X to my particle, causing the other to have momentum -X!")

Now, you might go "Wait! But if we can choose to collapse some wave functions, but not others, we could still use that as the basis for sending ones and zeroes!"
But, again, that doesn't quite work: because (again, I'm pretty sure I'm remembering this right), you cannot measure to see if the waveform has collapsed yet. . I *think*. I definately recall a lecture explaining why the ansible couldn't work, but I admit I may be getting the details a bit wrong. =/.

A serious question for more quantumly-inclined farkers: Wouldn't heisenberg's uncertainty principle basically prevent the disassembly and reassembly concept of teleportation? Either that, or you're reassembling someone who's going to be immediately at absolute zero (from a lack of molecular movement, because if you can find the position you can't find the momentum, therefore everything assembles at zero motion)?

Isn't absolute zero theoretical? I mean, I get the idea, but has it ever been created in a lab? And if so, could it be observed?


Aye, pretty sure absolute zero is theoretical (and, according to theory, cannot actually be reached. It's sort of an asymptote).

But, I'm in nanophysics, and an experimentalist (theory would drive me batshiat), and a few years removed from the courses-but, yes, that's what I remember!
 
2012-09-06 03:51:28 PM  
www.hwdyk.com
 
2012-09-06 03:51:29 PM  

SpiceWeaselElzar: Somaticasual: Felgraf: liam76: About time they got cracking on that ansible thing.

If I recall correctly, quantum teleportation is still limited by c.

The problem with the ansible is that (if I'm remembering my quantum right: It's been 2 years since graduate quantum), when you entangle to particles-measuring one causes the *wave function* of the other to collapse: but you cannot control *how* it does so. (That is, I can measure an entangled particle and go "aha! This one has momentum X.. sot he other must have momentum -X, and its wave function has now collapsed! But I cannot go "I will ADD momentum X to my particle, causing the other to have momentum -X!")

Now, you might go "Wait! But if we can choose to collapse some wave functions, but not others, we could still use that as the basis for sending ones and zeroes!"
But, again, that doesn't quite work: because (again, I'm pretty sure I'm remembering this right), you cannot measure to see if the waveform has collapsed yet. . I *think*. I definately recall a lecture explaining why the ansible couldn't work, but I admit I may be getting the details a bit wrong. =/.

A serious question for more quantumly-inclined farkers: Wouldn't heisenberg's uncertainty principle basically prevent the disassembly and reassembly concept of teleportation? Either that, or you're reassembling someone who's going to be immediately at absolute zero (from a lack of molecular movement, because if you can find the position you can't find the momentum, therefore everything assembles at zero motion)?

Isn't absolute zero theoretical? I mean, I get the idea, but has it ever been created in a lab? And if so, could it be observed?


Pretty sure it's theoretical at least in terms of observable phenomenon. But it stands to reason that if you stop time, or completely stop momentum, you would have absolute zero since heat relies on at least some level of movement.
 
2012-09-06 03:52:53 PM  

Felgraf: liam76: About time they got cracking on that ansible thing.

If I recall correctly, quantum teleportation is still limited by c.

The problem with the ansible is that (if I'm remembering my quantum right: It's been 2 years since graduate quantum), when you entangle to particles-measuring one causes the *wave function* of the other to collapse: but you cannot control *how* it does so. (That is, I can measure an entangled particle and go "aha! This one has momentum X.. sot he other must have momentum -X, and its wave function has now collapsed! But I cannot go "I will ADD momentum X to my particle, causing the other to have momentum -X!")

Now, you might go "Wait! But if we can choose to collapse some wave functions, but not others, we could still use that as the basis for sending ones and zeroes!"
But, again, that doesn't quite work: because (again, I'm pretty sure I'm remembering this right), you cannot measure to see if the waveform has collapsed yet. . I *think*. I definately recall a lecture explaining why the ansible couldn't work, but I admit I may be getting the details a bit wrong. =/.


It's not so much about communicating data, it's about _securely_ communicating data. Collapsing the wave function at your end gives a corresponding pattern of states at the other end, meaning that both you and the recipient now have matching encryption keys without sending said keys through some delivery system where they can be hijacked by a man in the middle and your message read.

Current encryption protocols are limited by the fact that, well, you have to either have already given the key to the recipient in the past (so it never changes, meaning if it's stolen once you're compromised forever) or you have to transmit it to them before (or I guess after) sending the message, where it can be intercepted. You just have to time it so that the receiving computer reads the states within a relaxation interval of the sending computer. Which can be a pretty short time, but iirc some relaxation periods can be extended artificially by various engineering workarounds.
 
2012-09-06 03:53:31 PM  

Jument: Sadly yeah, teleportation is almost certainly completely impossible. To reconstitute a brain you would have to reconstitute not only the cells but electrical charges and stuff. I hate to say never but it's never going to happen. You could jump through a wormhole or pop into hyperspace, of course. Much easier than true teleportation.


Who knows? We are just in the begging of this technology, these kinds of statements have a way of coming back and biting you like, "Guitar bands are on the way out" or "There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home" Just because we can't conceive of it now doesn't mean it won't happen, or that we shouldn't try.
 
2012-09-06 03:55:08 PM  
FTFA: Physicists at the University of Vienna and the Austrian Academy of Sciences have achieved quantum teleportation over a record distance of 143 km. The experiment is a major step towards satellite-based quantum communication.

So if I'm reading this correctly, I'll soon be able to use satellites to teleport anywhere in the world.

/Full Disclosure: It's possible that I'm not reading this correctly
 
2012-09-06 03:56:01 PM  
That was a hell of a thing.
 
2012-09-06 03:56:14 PM  
practical application = 4,200 more cable channels!



/where's my flying car, gotdammit?!
 
2012-09-06 03:56:54 PM  
TheSlothAlive:

liam76: About time they got cracking on that ansible thing.

Came for the Ender's Game Ursula K. LeGuin reference, leaving satisfied
 
2012-09-06 03:57:15 PM  

Somacandra: Thanks for the Meme-ries:

The sounds those things made scarred me for LIFE!

[i.imgur.com image 850x72]

Can you believe that original farking movie was rated "G" ?

With that scene of horrific screaming and guts being turned inside out? I'm still scarred too.


Yup. That f*cked with me as well.
 
2012-09-06 03:57:23 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: TuteTibiImperes: Quantum Apostrophe: We sure are getting good at this whole information thing. But we still fly turbofans on aluminum alloy airplanes.

Hey, NASA almost got a scramjet working not too long ago.

Oh Jesus, the same scramjets we've had working for decades? Experimentally? Where they blow up or malfunction after a few minutes because of limits of materials and engineering?

And we don't even have Concorde anymore, but we'll have magical scramjets? Right?

Carousel Beast: Isn't this where you remind us that nothing useful ever came out of space exploration or technology? Because they seem to be going down that path.

Interesting twisted logic. Are you telling me the scientists did this research so people could live on the Moon?

Seems to me it's the usual "we find something here first, then apply it to space later" thing. Just like with everything else related to space...

And how is putting a satellite in orbit, where we already have shiat tons of satellites, "exploring"? Isn't that exploring done since decades? We're just using LEO and GEO to bounce signals around.

...and ???? Does this lead to manned space colonies? Hmmm? Does it?

This isn't a new material, it isn't a new energy source.

It's signal processing. The only thing that we've improved by orders and orders of magnitude since WWII.

Carousel Beast: And we don't live 1,000 years, either.

If that's your argument, I can say "we don't live on Mars either", right?

Except I have that whole physics thing on my side.

You don't.

So sorry.

[thesmatter.files.wordpress.com image 325x325]

Now I'm going kayaking, biking, walking and all the things you won't be able to do in space...


I'm not sure what your argument here is, it seems to be "we haven't figured this stuff out yet, so we should stop trying" is that it?

We could build another concorde tomorrow if there was a business case for it. Advances in biofuel production, or solar/wind/fission/fusion-driven hydrogen production could make something like the concorde viable again. As far as scramjets go, nothing works until it does. Keep pouring enough time, money, and research into it and they'll figure out a way.

Advances in communications will bring the idea of deep space travel and colonization closer to feasibility. Right now the Curiosity rover can't even transmit everything it finds because the data connection to marks is so slow and spotty. Before we even think about putting a base on mars we'll need to find a way to communicate much more consistently.
 
2012-09-06 03:58:54 PM  

Creative Name: take me apart, take me apart
what a way to roam
but if you have to take me apart to get me there
I'd rather stay at home


I teleported home one night
With Ron and Sid and Meg.
Ron stole Meggie's heart away
And I got Sidney's leg.
 
2012-09-06 03:59:17 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Of course the most disturbing part is the question of what happens from your point of view when you get transported. You'd think that from your POV, you die instantly as you are torn apart on a atomic level and that the person that is reconstituted on the other end only think they are you because they have all of your memories. There'd just be no way to know what happens from a person's perspective.


It helps if you Think Like a Dinosaur.
 
2012-09-06 03:59:17 PM  

VonKraut: Just because we can't conceive of it now doesn't mean it won't happen, or that we shouldn't try.


Yep, laws of physics be damned. I will get this camel through the eye of this needle, if I just push hard enough!

/try, try again
 
2012-09-06 04:00:22 PM  

Headso: Quantum Apostrophe: Now I'm going kayaking, biking, walking and all the things you won't be able to do in space...

With that kind of attitude the world would still be flat and we'd all be living in africa.


I'm not sure who's worse, the Luddites or those in the science fields who think that because they don't believe something is possible that no one else will ever figure it out.
 
2012-09-06 04:01:33 PM  

Jim_Callahan: It's not so much about communicating data, it's about _securely_ communicating data. Collapsing the wave function at your end gives a corresponding pattern of states at the other end, meaning that both you and the recipient now have matching encryption keys without sending said keys through some delivery system where they can be hijacked by a man in the middle and your message read.

Current encryption protocols are limited by the fact that, well, you have to either have already given the key to the recipient in the past (so it never changes, meaning if it's stolen once you're compromised forever) or you have to transmit it to them before (or I guess after) sending the message, where it can be intercepted. You just have to time it so that the receiving computer reads the states within a relaxation interval of the sending computer. Which can be a pretty short time, but iirc some relaxation periods can be extended artificially by various engineering workarounds.


Oh! Yes, I know how quantum cryptography works, I actually had to do a presentation in a cryptography class (as I and one other person were the only physics majors, and the math teacher was having difficulty with the quantum mechanics). It's so wonderfully clever, iddnit? A theoretically secure method of sending a one time pad-and I suppose quantum teleportation would be still more secure. .

But I thought they were talking the Ansible, which I believe was the FTL communication from ender's game that theoretically used 'Spooky Action At a Distance' to transmit messages at FTL speeds.

Which *isn't* possible with the current understanding of Quantum Mechanics (as far as I remember).
 
2012-09-06 04:02:16 PM  

Somaticasual: A serious question for more quantumly-inclined farkers: Wouldn't heisenberg's uncertainty principle basically prevent the disassembly and reassembly concept of teleportation? Either that, or you're reassembling someone who's going to be immediately at absolute zero (from a lack of molecular movement, because if you can find the position you can't find the momentum, therefore everything assembles at zero motion)?


Humans are macro-scale objects and cells are micro-scale. Assembling, say, a brain with an identical set of connections or a body with the same general chemical and cellular structure, once you factor out all the chemical factors that are pretty much identical in every human, and genetic material, which can all be more or less reassembled no problem with only forseeable advances in science... reassembling a human within undetectable error bars is an endeavour that has nothing whatsoever to do with quantum anything.

Short version: nothing that makes an individual human individual or human is susceptible to Heisenberg uncertainty. Quantum states are irrelevant to biological and mental function. A reassembling teleporter doesn't have to get every particle in the right place to make you you.
 
2012-09-06 04:02:18 PM  

Somaticasual: A serious question for more quantumly-inclined farkers: Wouldn't heisenberg's uncertainty principle basically prevent the disassembly and reassembly concept of teleportation? Either that, or you're reassembling someone who's going to be immediately at absolute zero (from a lack of molecular movement, because if you can find the position you can't find the momentum, therefore everything assembles at zero motion)?


Duh. That's why they use Heisenberg Compensators.
 
2012-09-06 04:03:14 PM  

gweilo8888: VonKraut: Just because we can't conceive of it now doesn't mean it won't happen, or that we shouldn't try.

Yep, laws of physics be damned. I will get this camel through the eye of this needle, if I just push hard enough!

/try, try again


Liquid camel time!!!
 
2012-09-06 04:03:54 PM  

Thanks for the Meme-ries: Somaticasual: Felgraf: liam76: About time they got cracking on that ansible thing.

If I recall correctly, quantum teleportation is still limited by c.

The problem with the ansible is that (if I'm remembering my quantum right: It's been 2 years since graduate quantum), when you entangle to particles-measuring one causes the *wave function* of the other to collapse: but you cannot control *how* it does so. (That is, I can measure an entangled particle and go "aha! This one has momentum X.. sot he other must have momentum -X, and its wave function has now collapsed! But I cannot go "I will ADD momentum X to my particle, causing the other to have momentum -X!")

Now, you might go "Wait! But if we can choose to collapse some wave functions, but not others, we could still use that as the basis for sending ones and zeroes!"
But, again, that doesn't quite work: because (again, I'm pretty sure I'm remembering this right), you cannot measure to see if the waveform has collapsed yet. . I *think*. I definately recall a lecture explaining why the ansible couldn't work, but I admit I may be getting the details a bit wrong. =/.

A serious question for more quantumly-inclined farkers: Wouldn't heisenberg's uncertainty principle basically prevent the disassembly and reassembly concept of teleportation? Either that, or you're reassembling someone who's going to be immediately at absolute zero (from a lack of molecular movement, because if you can find the position you can't find the momentum, therefore everything assembles at zero motion)?

Covered :



CLICK FOR LINK

/why yes, I am a trekker, why do you ask?


Little known fact, they are really called Heisenberg Compensators because Walter White is such a badass that HE knows the position and momentum of every particle precisely.
 
2012-09-06 04:04:26 PM  
So whose ansible came first, Ursula K. Le Guin's or the Ender guy?
 
2012-09-06 04:04:49 PM  

Creative Name: take me apart, take me apart
what a way to roam
but if you have to take me apart to get me there
I'd rather stay at home


I teleported home one night
With Ron and Sid and Meg.
Ron stole Meggie's heart away
And I got Sidney's leg.
 
2012-09-06 04:04:57 PM  
Ziggy said there was only an 8% chance that this article would be greenlit. Guess who came out on top!

blastr.com

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go back in time and be Elvis for a day.
 
2012-09-06 04:06:05 PM  
Teleportation doesn't build me sex robots.

Or at least a holodeck. For porn.
Pornodeck. Hmm...Holoporn.
 
2012-09-06 04:06:44 PM  

Somaticasual: Felgraf: liam76: About time they got cracking on that ansible thing.

If I recall correctly, quantum teleportation is still limited by c.

The problem with the ansible is that (if I'm remembering my quantum right: It's been 2 years since graduate quantum), when you entangle to particles-measuring one causes the *wave function* of the other to collapse: but you cannot control *how* it does so. (That is, I can measure an entangled particle and go "aha! This one has momentum X.. sot he other must have momentum -X, and its wave function has now collapsed! But I cannot go "I will ADD momentum X to my particle, causing the other to have momentum -X!")

Now, you might go "Wait! But if we can choose to collapse some wave functions, but not others, we could still use that as the basis for sending ones and zeroes!"
But, again, that doesn't quite work: because (again, I'm pretty sure I'm remembering this right), you cannot measure to see if the waveform has collapsed yet. . I *think*. I definately recall a lecture explaining why the ansible couldn't work, but I admit I may be getting the details a bit wrong. =/.

A serious question for more quantumly-inclined farkers: Wouldn't heisenberg's uncertainty principle basically prevent the disassembly and reassembly concept of teleportation? Either that, or you're reassembling someone who's going to be immediately at absolute zero (from a lack of molecular movement, because if you can find the position you can't find the momentum, therefore everything assembles at zero motion)?


I think you'd have to be frozen to start with in any case because the scanning/disassembly process couldn't be instantaneous. Anyone scanned alive would probably bleed out during the process.
 
2012-09-06 04:08:16 PM  
simplicimus:

So whose ansible came first, Ursula K. Le Guin's or the Ender guy?

LeGuin, by over a decade.
 
2012-09-06 04:09:14 PM  

Jument: Sadly yeah, teleportation is almost certainly completely impossible. To reconstitute a brain you would have to reconstitute not only the cells but electrical charges and stuff. I hate to say never but it's never going to happen. You could jump through a wormhole or pop into hyperspace, of course. Much easier than true teleportation.


Not if you created a field that could reassign a quark's spatial position probability. 3 fields layered together to create a portal. One reverts a quark to a wave, the second reassigns it's position, the third collapses the waveform.
 
2012-09-06 04:11:49 PM  
The flesh. It should make the computer, uh crazy. Like those old ladies pinching babies.
 
2012-09-06 04:11:50 PM  
Sounds like we can finally get some untraceable data transfer devices in the future.

How do you trace/tap teleportation? It's not leaving a trail behind to follow; it's here...*POOF* now it's there.
 
2012-09-06 04:12:08 PM  

jeanwearinfool: Jument: Sadly yeah, teleportation is almost certainly completely impossible. To reconstitute a brain you would have to reconstitute not only the cells but electrical charges and stuff. I hate to say never but it's never going to happen. You could jump through a wormhole or pop into hyperspace, of course. Much easier than true teleportation.

Not if you created a field that could reassign a quark's spatial position probability. 3 fields layered together to create a portal. One reverts a quark to a wave, the second reassigns it's position, the third collapses the waveform.


But what if you get splinched?
 
2012-09-06 04:14:42 PM  
Felgraf: 'Spooky Action At a Distance' to transmit messages at FTL speeds.

This key issue is not addressed by the article.

We managed to perform a quantum teleportation experiment. In satellite-based experiments, the distances to be travelled are longer, but the signal will have to pass through less atmosphere.

If the experiment described were actually pure quantum information teleportation, what is the medium of the "signal"?
 
2012-09-06 04:16:08 PM  

Thanks for the Meme-ries: [i291.photobucket.com image 799x342]

[i291.photobucket.com image 320x320]

The sounds those things made scarred me for LIFE!


Came for these, leaving satisfied.

/Enterprise...
//what we got back didn't live long... fortunately
 
2012-09-06 04:16:15 PM  

Felgraf: But I thought they were talking the Ansible, which I believe was the FTL communication from ender's game that theoretically used 'Spooky Action At a Distance' to transmit messages at FTL speeds.


they didn't even go that far, they hand wavied the whole thing and said, we got it from teh formics.
 
2012-09-06 04:17:58 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Thanks for the Meme-ries: Somaticasual: Felgraf: liam76: About time they got cracking on that ansible thing.

If I recall correctly, quantum teleportation is still limited by c.

The problem with the ansible is that (if I'm remembering my quantum right: It's been 2 years since graduate quantum), when you entangle to particles-measuring one causes the *wave function* of the other to collapse: but you cannot control *how* it does so. (That is, I can measure an entangled particle and go "aha! This one has momentum X.. sot he other must have momentum -X, and its wave function has now collapsed! But I cannot go "I will ADD momentum X to my particle, causing the other to have momentum -X!")

Now, you might go "Wait! But if we can choose to collapse some wave functions, but not others, we could still use that as the basis for sending ones and zeroes!"
But, again, that doesn't quite work: because (again, I'm pretty sure I'm remembering this right), you cannot measure to see if the waveform has collapsed yet. . I *think*. I definately recall a lecture explaining why the ansible couldn't work, but I admit I may be getting the details a bit wrong. =/.

A serious question for more quantumly-inclined farkers: Wouldn't heisenberg's uncertainty principle basically prevent the disassembly and reassembly concept of teleportation? Either that, or you're reassembling someone who's going to be immediately at absolute zero (from a lack of molecular movement, because if you can find the position you can't find the momentum, therefore everything assembles at zero motion)?

Covered :



CLICK FOR LINK

/why yes, I am a trekker, why do you ask?

Little known fact, they are really called Heisenberg Compensators because Walter White is such a badass that HE knows the position and momentum of every particle precisely.


i291.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-06 04:18:35 PM  

Kellner21: I teleported home one night
With Ron and Sid and Meg.
Ron stole Meggie's heart away
And I got Sidney's leg.


Were you all in love with dying? Were you drinking from a fountain that was pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain?

/obscure?
 
2012-09-06 04:18:59 PM  

TheSlothAlive: liam76: About time they got cracking on that ansible thing.

Came for the Ender's Game reference, leaving satisfied


Came for the person who thought Orson Scott Card came up with Ursula K. Le Guin's word and concept, leaving smugly pedantic and satisfied.
 
2012-09-06 04:21:43 PM  

Somaticasual: SpiceWeaselElzar: Somaticasual: Felgraf: liam76: About time they got cracking on that ansible thing.

If I recall correctly, quantum teleportation is still limited by c.

The problem with the ansible is that (if I'm remembering my quantum right: It's been 2 years since graduate quantum), when you entangle to particles-measuring one causes the *wave function* of the other to collapse: but you cannot control *how* it does so. (That is, I can measure an entangled particle and go "aha! This one has momentum X.. sot he other must have momentum -X, and its wave function has now collapsed! But I cannot go "I will ADD momentum X to my particle, causing the other to have momentum -X!")

Now, you might go "Wait! But if we can choose to collapse some wave functions, but not others, we could still use that as the basis for sending ones and zeroes!"
But, again, that doesn't quite work: because (again, I'm pretty sure I'm remembering this right), you cannot measure to see if the waveform has collapsed yet. . I *think*. I definately recall a lecture explaining why the ansible couldn't work, but I admit I may be getting the details a bit wrong. =/.

A serious question for more quantumly-inclined farkers: Wouldn't heisenberg's uncertainty principle basically prevent the disassembly and reassembly concept of teleportation? Either that, or you're reassembling someone who's going to be immediately at absolute zero (from a lack of molecular movement, because if you can find the position you can't find the momentum, therefore everything assembles at zero motion)?

Isn't absolute zero theoretical? I mean, I get the idea, but has it ever been created in a lab? And if so, could it be observed?

Pretty sure it's theoretical at least in terms of observable phenomenon. But it stands to reason that if you stop time, or completely stop momentum, you would have absolute zero since heat relies on at least some level of movement.


It's not theoretical. We can't achieve it here on Earth due to the fact that it's basically impossible due to the transfer of heat energy from the device to say...the ground. HOWEVER, we can experiment in absolute zero easily, just have to walk outside the ISS on the dark side...or go to the moon again.
 
2012-09-06 04:21:58 PM  

semiotix: leaving smugly pedantic and satisfied.


...and late to the pedant party, I see. My ansible must be malfunctioning.
 
2012-09-06 04:22:18 PM  
WhoGAS:

Sounds like we can finally get some untraceable data transfer devices in the future.

How do you trace/tap teleportation? It's not leaving a trail behind to follow; it's here...*POOF* now it's there.


That's actually one of the expected uses of it... Any attempt to tap the stream would garbage it, so it's not just the most secure possible transmission method in practice, it's the most secure possible in theory as well.
 
2012-09-06 04:25:47 PM  

Somacandra: Thanks for the Meme-ries:

The sounds those things made scarred me for LIFE!

[i.imgur.com image 850x72]

Can you believe that original farking movie was rated "G" ?

i291.photobucket.com.

 
2012-09-06 04:27:27 PM  

maxheck: simplicimus:

So whose ansible came first, Ursula K. Le Guin's or the Ender guy?

LeGuin, by over a decade.


Very cool. Never read Rocannon's World but thanks for the heads up.

[themoreyouknow.jpg]

/ not the biggest sci-fi/fantasy reader
// just started Revelation Space because some farker recommended it and so far it's a pretty fun read, thanks to whoever
/// just saw lighthuggers referenced somewhere else on fark today
 
2012-09-06 04:28:39 PM  
"Mad_Radhu: Thanks for the Meme-ries: [i291.photobucket.com image 799x342]

[i291.photobucket.com image 320x320]

The sounds those things made scarred me for LIFE!

Of course the most disturbing part is the question of what happens from your point of view when you get transported. You'd think that from your POV, you die instantly as you are torn apart on a atomic level and that the person that is reconstituted on the other end only think they are you because they have all of your memories. There'd just be no way to know what happens from a person's perspective."


Sounds like this one time I tried Salvia....
 
2012-09-06 04:30:41 PM  

Sgygus: Felgraf: 'Spooky Action At a Distance' to transmit messages at FTL speeds.

This key issue is not addressed by the article.

We managed to perform a quantum teleportation experiment. In satellite-based experiments, the distances to be travelled are longer, but the signal will have to pass through less atmosphere.

If the experiment described were actually pure quantum information teleportation, what is the medium of the "signal"?


I think these things are usually done with a split beam of light.
 
2012-09-06 04:32:07 PM  

TheSlothAlive: maxheck: simplicimus:

So whose ansible came first, Ursula K. Le Guin's or the Ender guy?

LeGuin, by over a decade.

Very cool. Never read Rocannon's World but thanks for the heads up.

[themoreyouknow.jpg]

/ not the biggest sci-fi/fantasy reader
// just started Revelation Space because some farker recommended it and so far it's a pretty fun read, thanks to whoever
/// just saw lighthuggers referenced somewhere else on fark today


I've read a few books from the Revelation Space series, finishing the rest is on my to-do list. It's the second best series I've read so far. The Commonwealth series by Peter Hamilton is the best: Pandora's Star, Judas Unchained, The Dreaming Void, The Temporal Void, and The Evolutionary Void.
 
2012-09-06 04:34:09 PM  

fredklein: Mad_Radhu: Of course the most disturbing part is the question of what happens from your point of view when you get transported. You'd think that from your POV, you die instantly as you are torn apart on a atomic level and that the person that is reconstituted on the other end only think they are you because they have all of your memories. There'd just be no way to know what happens from a person's perspective.

It helps if you Think Like a Dinosaur.


That's cool. I read the short story years ago and it had enough of an impact on me that I still remember it. I didn't know that they had made an Outer Limits episode out of it. Did they do a good job? I seem to recall that the story took place on a space station, not on the moon, but it's been a while since I read it.
 
2012-09-06 04:36:32 PM  

Somaticasual: SpiceWeaselElzar: Somaticasual: Felgraf: liam76: About time they got cracking on that ansible thing.

If I recall correctly, quantum teleportation is still limited by c.

The problem with the ansible is that (if I'm remembering my quantum right: It's been 2 years since graduate quantum), when you entangle to particles-measuring one causes the *wave function* of the other to collapse: but you cannot control *how* it does so. (That is, I can measure an entangled particle and go "aha! This one has momentum X.. sot he other must have momentum -X, and its wave function has now collapsed! But I cannot go "I will ADD momentum X to my particle, causing the other to have momentum -X!")

Now, you might go "Wait! But if we can choose to collapse some wave functions, but not others, we could still use that as the basis for sending ones and zeroes!"
But, again, that doesn't quite work: because (again, I'm pretty sure I'm remembering this right), you cannot measure to see if the waveform has collapsed yet. . I *think*. I definately recall a lecture explaining why the ansible couldn't work, but I admit I may be getting the details a bit wrong. =/.

A serious question for more quantumly-inclined farkers: Wouldn't heisenberg's uncertainty principle basically prevent the disassembly and reassembly concept of teleportation? Either that, or you're reassembling someone who's going to be immediately at absolute zero (from a lack of molecular movement, because if you can find the position you can't find the momentum, therefore everything assembles at zero motion)?

Isn't absolute zero theoretical? I mean, I get the idea, but has it ever been created in a lab? And if so, could it be observed?

Pretty sure it's theoretical at least in terms of observable phenomenon. But it stands to reason that if you stop time, or completely stop momentum, you would have absolute zero since heat relies on at least some level of movement.


So it seems like it could really only exist if time were not a factor, because it would start to heat up as soon as time moved forward. Assuming that what you transported was thermo conductive ( which it would need to be). But really, the whole point is, when it showed up, it would be really cold. Unless the original assumption is wrong.
 
2012-09-06 04:37:17 PM  

Cannonade: Somaticasual: Felgraf: liam76: About time they got cracking on that ansible thing.

If I recall correctly, quantum teleportation is still limited by c.

The problem with the ansible is that (if I'm remembering my quantum right: It's been 2 years since graduate quantum), when you entangle to particles-measuring one causes the *wave function* of the other to collapse: but you cannot control *how* it does so. (That is, I can measure an entangled particle and go "aha! This one has momentum X.. sot he other must have momentum -X, and its wave function has now collapsed! But I cannot go "I will ADD momentum X to my particle, causing the other to have momentum -X!")

Now, you might go "Wait! But if we can choose to collapse some wave functions, but not others, we could still use that as the basis for sending ones and zeroes!"
But, again, that doesn't quite work: because (again, I'm pretty sure I'm remembering this right), you cannot measure to see if the waveform has collapsed yet. . I *think*. I definately recall a lecture explaining why the ansible couldn't work, but I admit I may be getting the details a bit wrong. =/.

A serious question for more quantumly-inclined farkers: Wouldn't heisenberg's uncertainty principle basically prevent the disassembly and reassembly concept of teleportation? Either that, or you're reassembling someone who's going to be immediately at absolute zero (from a lack of molecular movement, because if you can find the position you can't find the momentum, therefore everything assembles at zero motion)?

I think you'd have to be frozen to start with in any case because the scanning/disassembly process couldn't be instantaneous. Anyone scanned alive would probably bleed out during the process.


Scanning could be instantaneous with quantum computers because theoretically (if I remember properly) they operate all algorithms and equations at the same time. Not disassembly...destruction. You have to completely destroy the first object (as is described in this article). The challenge for human or rather larger mass objects is the rebuild, which has to happen immediately as the original is destroyed. Again, relies on quantum mechanics and computers. If we EVER get there, it will be a long way off.
 
2012-09-06 04:39:08 PM  
*Well, destruction is also a challenge lol.
 
2012-09-06 04:41:22 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Of course the most disturbing part is the question of what happens from your point of view when you get transported. You'd think that from your POV, you die instantly as you are torn apart on a atomic level and that the person that is reconstituted on the other end only think they are you because they have all of your memories. There'd just be no way to know what happens from a person's perspective.


Asimov covered this.
 
2012-09-06 04:43:22 PM  

Cannonade: TheSlothAlive: maxheck: simplicimus:

So whose ansible came first, Ursula K. Le Guin's or the Ender guy?

LeGuin, by over a decade.

Very cool. Never read Rocannon's World but thanks for the heads up.

[themoreyouknow.jpg]

/ not the biggest sci-fi/fantasy reader
// just started Revelation Space because some farker recommended it and so far it's a pretty fun read, thanks to whoever
/// just saw lighthuggers referenced somewhere else on fark today

I've read a few books from the Revelation Space series, finishing the rest is on my to-do list. It's the second best series I've read so far. The Commonwealth series by Peter Hamilton is the best: Pandora's Star, Judas Unchained, The Dreaming Void, The Temporal Void, and The Evolutionary Void.


Awesome, added to my book list, thanks. Next time I feel like reading sci-fi I'll grab a copy of Pandora's Star.
 
2012-09-06 04:44:39 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Of course the most disturbing part is the question of what happens from your point of view when you get transported. You'd think that from your POV, you die instantly as you are torn apart on a atomic level and that the person that is reconstituted on the other end only think they are you because they have all of your memories. There'd just be no way to know what happens from a person's perspective.


That's better than the alternative:
i.imgur.com
 
2012-09-06 04:45:48 PM  

semiotix: TheSlothAlive: liam76: About time they got cracking on that ansible thing.

Came for the Ender's Game reference, leaving satisfied

Came for the person who thought Orson Scott Card came up with Ursula K. Le Guin's word and concept, leaving smugly pedantic and satisfied.


Came for the people smacking down the idiot who hadn't read LeGuin, leaving satisfied.
 
2012-09-06 04:46:15 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Thanks for the Meme-ries: [i291.photobucket.com image 799x342]

[i291.photobucket.com image 320x320]

The sounds those things made scarred me for LIFE!

Of course the most disturbing part is the question of what happens from your point of view when you get transported. You'd think that from your POV, you die instantly as you are torn apart on a atomic level and that the person that is reconstituted on the other end only think they are you because they have all of your memories. There'd just be no way to know what happens from a person's perspective.


Have you seen this? 

i141.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-06 04:46:57 PM  
Pretty sure it's theoretical at least in terms of observable phenomenon. But it stands to reason that if you stop time, or completely stop momentum, you would have absolute zero since heat relies on at least some level of movement.

It's not theoretical. We can't achieve it here on Eart ...

If you look into it you'll find that the vacuum of space is a few degrees above absolute zero, they used that fact to help pinpoint the big bang.
 
2012-09-06 04:47:20 PM  
Glad to see I'm not the only one thinking of the poor pig lizard...

It was in the headline dipshiat. Why would you be?
 
2012-09-06 04:48:17 PM  

Cannonade: I think you'd have to be frozen to start with in any case because the scanning/disassembly process couldn't be instantaneous. Anyone scanned alive would probably bleed out during the process.


"Longer than you think, Dad!" it cackled. "Longer than you think!
 
2012-09-06 04:49:04 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Short version: nothing that makes an individual human individual or human is susceptible to Heisenberg uncertainty. Quantum states are irrelevant to biological and mental function. A reassembling teleporter doesn't have to get every particle in the right place to make you you.


Of course. This will just be the way the blueprints get there.
 
2012-09-06 04:50:42 PM  
If the experiment described were actually pure quantum information teleportation, what is the medium of the "signal"?

If there's a medium, it's not teleportation, right?

Also, because no mass is transferred, 'teleportation' is a misnomer (or maybe hyper-technically accurate label) from the start.
 
2012-09-06 05:00:20 PM  

LazarusLong42: semiotix: TheSlothAlive: liam76: About time they got cracking on that ansible thing.

Came for the Ender's Game reference, leaving satisfied

Came for the person who thought Orson Scott Card came up with Ursula K. Le Guin's word and concept, leaving smugly pedantic and satisfied.

Came for the people smacking down the idiot who hadn't read LeGuin, leaving satisfied.


Tell me about it! I hope that ignorant bastard dies in a fire. Wait, what?
 
2012-09-06 05:00:25 PM  
"Longer than you think, Dad! It's longer than you think!"
 
2012-09-06 05:00:37 PM  

ciberido: Cannonade: I think you'd have to be frozen to start with in any case because the scanning/disassembly process couldn't be instantaneous. Anyone scanned alive would probably bleed out during the process.

"Longer than you think, Dad!" it cackled. "Longer than you think!


GIS --> wikipedia --> That's farked up!
 
2012-09-06 05:03:54 PM  

arethereanybeernamesleft: If the experiment described were actually pure quantum information teleportation, what is the medium of the "signal"?

If there's a medium, it's not teleportation, right?

Also, because no mass is transferred, 'teleportation' is a misnomer (or maybe hyper-technically accurate label) from the start.


More like.... faxed.
 
2012-09-06 05:05:45 PM  

phimuskapsi: More like.... faxed.


From the description, it seems more like... microburst radio signals. A fax requires a line, which they say would degrade the signal too much.

I'm pretty curious about this thing, and whether or not it's a real thing or a faux discovery some scientists are using to justify their government grants.
 
2012-09-06 05:07:09 PM  

trappedspirit: Mad_Radhu: Thanks for the Meme-ries: [i291.photobucket.com image 799x342]

[i291.photobucket.com image 320x320]

The sounds those things made scarred me for LIFE!

Of course the most disturbing part is the question of what happens from your point of view when you get transported. You'd think that from your POV, you die instantly as you are torn apart on a atomic level and that the person that is reconstituted on the other end only think they are you because they have all of your memories. There'd just be no way to know what happens from a person's perspective.

Have you seen this? 

[i141.photobucket.com image 214x317]


Yep. I think it was also addressed in a ST:TNG episode where there two Rikers.
 
2012-09-06 05:10:27 PM  
TheSlothAlive:

maxheck: simplicimus:

So whose ansible came first, Ursula K. Le Guin's or the Ender guy?

LeGuin, by over a decade.

Very cool. Never read Rocannon's World but thanks for the heads up.

[themoreyouknow.jpg]

/ not the biggest sci-fi/fantasy reader
// just started Revelation Space because some farker recommended it and so far it's a pretty fun read, thanks to whoever
/// just saw lighthuggers referenced somewhere else on fark today


Enjoy!

Be warned, LeGuin doesn't write what most people think of when they think Sci-Fi... Yes, there is a galaxy-spanning civilization and FTL communication, just as there are wizards and dragons in her Earthsea trilogy, but those are just used as backdrop for very low-key, very human stories.

She's truly an amazing writer / storyteller though...
 
2012-09-06 05:11:18 PM  

mark625: fredklein: Mad_Radhu: Of course the most disturbing part is the question of what happens from your point of view when you get transported. You'd think that from your POV, you die instantly as you are torn apart on a atomic level and that the person that is reconstituted on the other end only think they are you because they have all of your memories. There'd just be no way to know what happens from a person's perspective.

It helps if you Think Like a Dinosaur.

That's cool. I read the short story years ago and it had enough of an impact on me that I still remember it. I didn't know that they had made an Outer Limits episode out of it. Did they do a good job? I seem to recall that the story took place on a space station, not on the moon, but it's been a while since I read it.


As I recall it was an 'okay' adaptation. I believe the alien base was on the far side of the moon due to reduced 'interference' from earth.
 
2012-09-06 05:14:49 PM  
Larry Niven had an interesting article on "The Theory and Practice of Teleportation"
 
2012-09-06 05:14:49 PM  
It's eternity in there...
 
2012-09-06 05:20:52 PM  
Could someone explain [in
 
2012-09-06 05:22:08 PM  
Awesome, not sure what happened. Let's try this again...

Could someone explain (in
 
2012-09-06 05:22:50 PM  
How do you even encode a photon? I checked Amazon, they do not even sell photon encoders.
 
2012-09-06 05:27:50 PM  

TanHamster: Awesome, not sure what happened. Let's try this again...

Could someone explain (in


It will take too long to explain. Let me sum up - you're probably typing something that the web server interprets as markup language, and deletes so it doesn't get tricked.
 
2012-09-06 05:30:44 PM  

Millennium: Kellner21: I teleported home one night
With Ron and Sid and Meg.
Ron stole Meggie's heart away
And I got Sidney's leg.

Were you all in love with dying? Were you drinking from a fountain that was pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain?

/obscure?


Hardly obscure, butthole.

/they should've been a better shot and got him in the head
 
2012-09-06 05:39:09 PM  
FTFA: "In such a future 'quantum internet', quantum teleportation will be a key protocol for the transmission of informationpeople between quantum computersstepping disks."

There...FTFY, Subs.

/might be obscure
 
2012-09-06 05:40:53 PM  

arethereanybeernamesleft: If the experiment described were actually pure quantum information teleportation, what is the medium of the "signal"?

If there's a medium, it's not teleportation, right?

Also, because no mass is transferred, 'teleportation' is a misnomer (or maybe hyper-technically accurate label) from the start.


I believe there is an original medium of entangled particle pairs, that are then split and measuring the quantum state of one causes the other to go to that state also, untangling at the same time. So the quantum state is "teleported" but yeah, kind of dodgy using that word.
 
2012-09-06 05:41:53 PM  
www.wallpaperpimper.com 
Hot!
 
2012-09-06 05:45:35 PM  
The flux capacitor must have malfunctioned or something.
 
2012-09-06 05:47:34 PM  

rkettens: If you look into it you'll find that the vacuum of space is a few degrees above absolute zero, they used that fact to help pinpoint the big bang.


This. Back when I was doing experiments on infrared detectors for the James Webb telescope we had to take the detectors down to 32 Kelvin to mimic the environment of space (and also to see anything). That's damn cold, but not absolute zero.

As you go further out from the solar system things obviously get colder, but you still never hit absolute zero due to cosmic radiation.
 
2012-09-06 05:50:15 PM  

StoneColdAtheist: FTFA: "In such a future 'quantum internet', quantum teleportation will be a key protocol for the transmission of informationpeople between quantum computersstepping disks."

There...FTFY, Subs.

/might be obscure


About as obscure as Flash Mobs.
 
2012-09-06 05:50:55 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Cybernetic: Unfortunately, the data turned inside out. And exploded

Well, they've only done this once before.

/Safety not guaranteed.

[vaneeesab.files.wordpress.com image 540x270]

"Have you ever faced certain death?"

"If it was so certain, I wouldn't be here, would I?"


Aubrey Plaza thread!

/too late :(
 
2012-09-06 05:51:36 PM  

SpiceWeaselElzar: capital punishment potential?


Potentially
 
2012-09-06 05:55:34 PM  

StoneColdAtheist: FTFA: "In such a future 'quantum internet', quantum teleportation will be a key protocol for the transmission of informationpeople between quantum computersstepping disks."

There...FTFY, Subs.

/might be obscure


I really hope that's not obscure. Especially since Niven was mentioned upthread...
 
2012-09-06 05:57:23 PM  

LazarusLong42: StoneColdAtheist: FTFA: "In such a future 'quantum internet', quantum teleportation will be a key protocol for the transmission of informationpeople between quantum computersstepping disks."

There...FTFY, Subs.

/might be obscure

I really hope that's not obscure. Especially since Niven was mentioned upthread...


Don't fret. Probably just a bunch of wireheads.
 
2012-09-06 06:00:24 PM  

StoneColdAtheist: There...FTFY, Subsauthor.


FTFM

hjy6: [www.wallpaperpimper.com image 850x637] 
Hot!


Whoa...that transporter operator surely did make my capacitor flux.
 
2012-09-06 06:05:03 PM  

LazarusLong42: StoneColdAtheist: FTFA: "In such a future 'quantum internet', quantum teleportation will be a key protocol for the transmission of informationpeople between quantum computersstepping disks."

There...FTFY, Subs.

/might be obscure

I really hope that's not obscure. Especially since Niven was mentioned upthread...


In my defense I had not yet read that far in the thread.

/have a hard copy of nearly every Niven book and anthology
//missing and have not yet read one of the Man-Kzin Wars books
 
2012-09-06 06:10:57 PM  
when can we drive dune buggies on mars. in real time?
 
2012-09-06 06:34:40 PM  

fredklein: Mad_Radhu: Of course the most disturbing part is the question of what happens from your point of view when you get transported. You'd think that from your POV, you die instantly as you are torn apart on a atomic level and that the person that is reconstituted on the other end only think they are you because they have all of your memories. There'd just be no way to know what happens from a person's perspective.

It helps if you Think Like a Dinosaur.


If they found a way to break apart and reassemble the exact same molecules that made up you, it'd still be you, right? Now if they just broke up your molecules, stored your data in a machine and then made a new you out of different molecules, then yes, the original you would pretty much die. (And I think that's what happens in Star Trek. Remember that episode where they had a transporter accident and the thing spat out two copies of Riker instead of one? I would have gotten pretty nervous about stepping into one of those things after that. And let's not even talk about the whole "transporter accidentally turning people into linguini" thing that happened in the first Star Trek movie.)

I think instead of teleportation in the future, we'll have replicators--3D printers that can duplicate any matter using a data file entered into it (either directly or transmitted to it over an expanse of thousands of miles.) We kind of sort of have that thing now in its most primitive stages...
 
2012-09-06 06:42:28 PM  

Heraclitus: when can we drive dune buggies on mars. in real time?


Never; can't be done (from Earth) -- Earth-Mars light travel time is non-trivial.
 
2012-09-06 06:58:31 PM  

yourmomlovestetris: fredklein: Mad_Radhu: Of course the most disturbing part is the question of what happens from your point of view when you get transported. You'd think that from your POV, you die instantly as you are torn apart on a atomic level and that the person that is reconstituted on the other end only think they are you because they have all of your memories. There'd just be no way to know what happens from a person's perspective.

It helps if you Think Like a Dinosaur.

If they found a way to break apart and reassemble the exact same molecules that made up you, it'd still be you, right? Now if they just broke up your molecules, stored your data in a machine and then made a new you out of different molecules, then yes, the original you would pretty much die.


This does not follow. There is nothing special to distinguish one identically-composed molecule from another. Whether the molecules used to "reintegrate" you are the same molecules that were disintegrated makes no difference from a physical standpoint.

This has troubling implications re: cloning if you're still hung up on the concept of "souls".
 
2012-09-06 06:58:45 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Thanks for the Meme-ries: [i291.photobucket.com image 799x342]

[i291.photobucket.com image 320x320]

The sounds those things made scarred me for LIFE!

Of course the most disturbing part is the question of what happens from your point of view when you get transported. You'd think that from your POV, you die instantly as you are torn apart on a atomic level and that the person that is reconstituted on the other end only think they are you because they have all of your memories. There'd just be no way to know what happens from a person's perspective.


It isn't like the matter in your body is proprietary or anything; at an atomic and quantum level, your physical self cycles through with "new" matter every week or so. Discrete macro-matterforms (I just made that up because it sounded funny) are more like a pattern in space than a locked relationship between specific instances of matter. As such, teleportation doesn't really present the problem you describe here. You're already becoming a "new person" in a material sense on a regular basis; teleportation -assuming ~100% pattern fidelity- would just accomplish the process faster while transporting you to a different location in the process.

Coincidentally, this is also why the worry about being transported into something isn't much of a concern(for you at least); you'd be reassembled out of the ambient matter at the location.
 
2012-09-06 06:59:04 PM  

hjy6: [www.wallpaperpimper.com image 850x637] 
Hot!


Her tits ain't really that big. Just thought you should know.
 
2012-09-06 07:00:16 PM  

Zizzowop: Wait!! Look around you, see if you can't form some sort of rudeamentry lathe.


And....we're done :)

+1 and all that for the GQ references.
 
2012-09-06 07:01:28 PM  

Lt. Cheese Weasel: hjy6: [www.wallpaperpimper.com image 850x637] 
Hot!

Her tits ain't really that big. Just thought you should know.


Hey, size doesn't matter works both ways.
 
2012-09-06 07:02:20 PM  

Felgraf: liam76: About time they got cracking on that ansible thing.

If I recall correctly, quantum teleportation is still limited by c.

The problem with the ansible is that (if I'm remembering my quantum right: It's been 2 years since graduate quantum), when you entangle to particles-measuring one causes the *wave function* of the other to collapse: but you cannot control *how* it does so. (That is, I can measure an entangled particle and go "aha! This one has momentum X.. sot he other must have momentum -X, and its wave function has now collapsed! But I cannot go "I will ADD momentum X to my particle, causing the other to have momentum -X!")

Now, you might go "Wait! But if we can choose to collapse some wave functions, but not others, we could still use that as the basis for sending ones and zeroes!"
But, again, that doesn't quite work: because (again, I'm pretty sure I'm remembering this right), you cannot measure to see if the waveform has collapsed yet. . I *think*. I definately recall a lecture explaining why the ansible couldn't work, but I admit I may be getting the details a bit wrong. =/.


(Gym towel snap)
 
2012-09-06 07:03:04 PM  
I have a hard time beliving that Chinese scientists are making breakthroughs in quantum teleportation. This is a country that has to steal factory blueprints... either that or this whole quantum teleportation thing is not nearly as complicated as they are letting us believe...
 
2012-09-06 07:08:29 PM  

Cannonade: TheSlothAlive: maxheck: simplicimus:

So whose ansible came first, Ursula K. Le Guin's or the Ender guy?

LeGuin, by over a decade.

Very cool. Never read Rocannon's World but thanks for the heads up.

[themoreyouknow.jpg]

/ not the biggest sci-fi/fantasy reader
// just started Revelation Space because some farker recommended it and so far it's a pretty fun read, thanks to whoever
/// just saw lighthuggers referenced somewhere else on fark today

I've read a few books from the Revelation Space series, finishing the rest is on my to-do list. It's the second best series I've read so far. The Commonwealth series by Peter Hamilton is the best: Pandora's Star, Judas Unchained, The Dreaming Void, The Temporal Void, and The Evolutionary Void.


I like both those guys and both series are great. Just wrapped Reynolds' Terminal World a few weeks back. Good read.
 
2012-09-06 07:14:51 PM  

Lt. Cheese Weasel: hjy6: [www.wallpaperpimper.com image 850x637] 
Hot!

Her tits ain't really that big. Just thought you should know.


push up bras - a girls best friend

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-09-06 07:19:39 PM  
miners not minors

beryllium sphere
 
2012-09-06 07:22:36 PM  
Meanwhile, back in the USA...

www.piginshit.com
 
2012-09-06 07:44:14 PM  
This thread...

www.trekcc.org

...is relevant to my interests.
 
2012-09-06 07:44:47 PM  

Heron: It isn't like the matter in your body is proprietary or anything; at an atomic and quantum level, your physical self cycles through with "new" matter every week or so. Discrete macro-matterforms (I just made that up because it sounded funny) are more like a pattern in space than a locked relationship between specific instances of matter. As such, teleportation doesn't really present the problem you describe here. You're already becoming a "new person" in a material sense on a regular basis; teleportation -assuming ~100% pattern fidelity- would just accomplish the process faster while transporting you to a different location in the process.

Coincidentally, this is also why the worry about being transported into something isn't much of a concern(for you at least); you'd be reassembled out of the ambient matter at the location.



Yes, but that replacement happens gradually so there is no discontinuity of your sense of self, whereas every cell in your body being ripped apart and the reconstituted somewhere else would cause your sense of self to be destroyed just as surely as if you died. It's like the situation of upgrading to a robot body. If you just copy your mind to a fully robotic body, the original you will still grow old and die and enjoy none of the benefits of the functionally immortal robot you. If you upgrade yourself in the "boiling frog" method of upgrading instead, and slowly replace small parts of your body and brain with cybernetic upgrades, you'll have a continuous sense of selfhood even though the end result is the same, a human mind in a robot brain and body.
 
2012-09-06 07:56:15 PM  

VonKraut: Jument: Sadly yeah, teleportation is almost certainly completely impossible. To reconstitute a brain you would have to reconstitute not only the cells but electrical charges and stuff. I hate to say never but it's never going to happen. You could jump through a wormhole or pop into hyperspace, of course. Much easier than true teleportation.

Who knows? We are just in the begging of this technology, these kinds of statements have a way of coming back and biting you like, "Guitar bands are on the way out" or "There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home" Just because we can't conceive of it now doesn't mean it won't happen, or that we shouldn't try.


We still don't even have flying cars and you think it's possible that we could rewrite physics *and* overcome the insurance obstacles involved in teleportation? It'll never happen.
 
2012-09-06 08:04:12 PM  
"That's a hell of a thing.." - Tech Sgt. Chen
 
2012-09-06 08:15:54 PM  

NephilimNexus: Meanwhile, back in the USA...

[www.piginshiat.com image 430x315]


Dude, that's totally my youngest brother on the right!

(Don't know the other two guys, but they COULD be his huntin' buddies.)
 
2012-09-06 08:28:04 PM  

Jument: Sadly yeah, teleportation is almost certainly completely impossible. To reconstitute a brain you would have to reconstitute not only the cells but electrical charges and stuff. I hate to say never but it's never going to happen. You could jump through a wormhole or pop into hyperspace, of course. Much easier than true teleportation.


That's why you have to be asleep to take a jaunt. If you're awake you go raving mad.
 
2012-09-06 08:51:22 PM  

Sliding Carp: TanHamster: Awesome, not sure what happened. Let's try this again...

Could someone explain (in

It will take too long to explain. Let me sum up - you're probably typing something that the web server interprets as markup language, and deletes so it doesn't get tricked.


I was basically wondering whether someone could explain the difference between quantum coupling and quantum teleportation. In plain English. Seems to me like quantum coupling over 143 km would be far more useful and impressive, but maybe there's a reason why the coupling either isn't useful or isn't possible.
 
2012-09-06 09:30:00 PM  
JRoo: Teleportation doesn't build me sex robots.

Or at least a holodeck. For porn.
Pornodeck. Hmm...Holoporn.


I want the Christine Hendricks program to run...... something something Special hell
 
2012-09-06 09:54:18 PM  

belhade: Jument: Sadly yeah, teleportation is almost certainly completely impossible. To reconstitute a brain you would have to reconstitute not only the cells but electrical charges and stuff. I hate to say never but it's never going to happen. You could jump through a wormhole or pop into hyperspace, of course. Much easier than true teleportation.

That's why you have to be asleep to take a jaunt. If you're awake you go raving mad.


How long is a jaunt?
 
2012-09-06 10:31:38 PM  

Fano: belhade: Jument: Sadly yeah, teleportation is almost certainly completely impossible. To reconstitute a brain you would have to reconstitute not only the cells but electrical charges and stuff. I hate to say never but it's never going to happen. You could jump through a wormhole or pop into hyperspace, of course. Much easier than true teleportation.

That's why you have to be asleep to take a jaunt. If you're awake you go raving mad.

How long is a jaunt?


It's eternity in there.
 
2012-09-06 11:17:54 PM  

mojotele: rkettens: If you look into it you'll find that the vacuum of space is a few degrees above absolute zero, they used that fact to help pinpoint the big bang.

This. Back when I was doing experiments on infrared detectors for the James Webb telescope we had to take the detectors down to 32 Kelvin to mimic the environment of space (and also to see anything). That's damn cold, but not absolute zero.

As you go further out from the solar system things obviously get colder, but you still never hit absolute zero due to cosmic radiation.


Yeah, here's the thing. If something ever did hit absolute zero, it would "stop." I am not sure that would be good for the fabric of space time.
 
2012-09-06 11:38:04 PM  

puckrock2000: [moviesmedia.ign.com image 310x260]

"It wasn't your fault, Rand."

/RIP Cmdr. Sonak


We hardly knew ye.
 
2012-09-06 11:47:02 PM  

Fano: belhade: Jument: Sadly yeah, teleportation is almost certainly completely impossible. To reconstitute a brain you would have to reconstitute not only the cells but electrical charges and stuff. I hate to say never but it's never going to happen. You could jump through a wormhole or pop into hyperspace, of course. Much easier than true teleportation.

That's why you have to be asleep to take a jaunt. If you're awake you go raving mad.

How long is a jaunt?


LONGER THAN YOU THINK, DAD
 
2012-09-07 12:18:38 AM  
Let's get out of here before one of these posts kills Guy.
 
2012-09-07 12:37:55 AM  
That's just farkin great...now there's probably an evil twin quanta running around. Look for the sinister beard.
 
2012-09-07 01:21:19 AM  
'Bio of a Space Tyrant' by Piers Anthony showed the possibilities back in 1986 with "Statesman".
/current solar system was colonized, politicalized about the same way the earth is now.
 
2012-09-07 02:51:50 AM  
100 years ago, Quantum theory was not even conceived of. About 50 years ago Star Trek was conceived but considered total fantasy. Some of Star Trek fantasy is now common today for real. Never say no or impossible if minds can conceive of it. We only think we know a lot but have no conception of what we don't.
 
2012-09-07 03:15:24 AM  

Ika7734: What I found as a "well then what's the point" is FTFA:
"In an active feed-forward protocol, conventional data is sent alongside the quantum information, enabling the recipient to decipher the transferred signal with a higher efficiency."

Does that mean there's also a standard type of transmission in parallel? If so, then why bother with the quantum action at a distance for the transmission.?


Because it still enables secure communications. You can *always* tell if a quantum signal has been intercepted or "peeked" at.


Somaticasual: A serious question for more quantumly-inclined farkers: Wouldn't heisenberg's uncertainty principle basically prevent the disassembly and reassembly concept of teleportation?


Not really. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle says that you can't know both the position and momentum of a particle (say, an electron) to an arbitrary degree of precision, but the effect is not generally large enough to make much of a difference once you move up past the atomic scale. Even in the minutae involved in physical chemistry, where you're dealing with individual atoms, you're not really concerned about precisely where every electron is or how fast it is going, you only are interested in the aggregate behavior of each atom and how it contributes to the behavior of the molecule.


Somaticasual: Either that, or you're reassembling someone who's going to be immediately at absolute zero (from a lack of molecular movement, because if you can find the position you can't find the momentum, therefore everything assembles at zero motion)?


That's not quite how it works. Even if you could perform a position measurement precisely enough that you have zero information about the momentum (impossible in actuality), it doesn't imply that the object's momentum is actually zero -- it only means that you don't know anything about its momentum.

In fact if you'll notice, in your scenario you are actually able to precisely determine both the position (which we've found to an arbitrary degree of precision) and the momentum (which, apparently because we weren't able to measure it, is now exactly zero) of a particle. This violates not only Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, but also the Laws of Conservation of Energy and Momentum. After all, where did all the momentum and kinetic energy of the particle go when its momentum suddenly became zero?

Also, nothing is ever at absolute zero. Atoms and molecules always move at least a little.
 
2012-09-07 03:23:07 AM  

jimw: 100 years ago, Quantum theory was not even conceived of. About 50 years ago Star Trek was conceived but considered total fantasy. Some of Star Trek fantasy is now common today for real. Never say no or impossible if minds can conceive of it. We only think we know a lot but have no conception of what we don't.


I really expected that to turn into a "and that's why the bible could do the same thing" post. Whew, close one.
 
2012-09-07 04:13:30 AM  

Mad_Radhu: Thanks for the Meme-ries: [i291.photobucket.com image 799x342]

[i291.photobucket.com image 320x320]

The sounds those things made scarred me for LIFE!

Of course the most disturbing part is the question of what happens from your point of view when you get transported. You'd think that from your POV, you die instantly as you are torn apart on a atomic level and that the person that is reconstituted on the other end only think they are you because they have all of your memories. There'd just be no way to know what happens from a person's perspective.


I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but it's shown in Star Trek that there is something equivalent to a unique consciousness/soul, for lack of a better word, which is transmitted in teleportation.
However, it's also shown that entirely independent clones can be created through the teleporter.
 
2012-09-07 04:33:00 AM  
So if I instantaneously look in two boxes 143km apart for Schrödinger's cat, will it be alive or dead?
 
2012-09-07 04:36:27 AM  

frunjer: So if I instantaneously look in two boxes 143km apart for Schrödinger's cat, will it be alive or dead?


Yes.
 
2012-09-07 04:52:00 AM  
I'm a little decoherent. Which box? Which cat? Which me? Dead? Alive? Both? Neither? Maybe?

For a good laugh
 
2012-09-07 07:12:14 AM  

hjy6: [www.wallpaperpimper.com image 850x637] 
Hot!


For some reason, I'm torn between her and Laliari.

www.neonbubble.com
 
2012-09-07 08:35:54 AM  

FeFiFoFark: practical application = 4,200 more cable channels!

/where's my flying car, gotdammit?!


Oh, great, ESPN2635 is showing checkers...
 
2012-09-07 11:52:51 AM  

Gleeman: Mad_Radhu: Of course the most disturbing part is the question of what happens from your point of view when you get transported. You'd think that from your POV, you die instantly as you are torn apart on a atomic level and that the person that is reconstituted on the other end only think they are you because they have all of your memories. There'd just be no way to know what happens from a person's perspective.

That's better than the alternative:
[i.imgur.com image 400x331]


What movie is that?
 
2012-09-07 12:11:54 PM  
www.hotflick.net

Have you considered the cost?
 
2012-09-07 02:59:32 PM  

Gawdzila: That's not quite how it works. Even if you could perform a position measurement precisely enough that you have zero information about the momentum (impossible in actuality), it doesn't imply that the object's momentum is actually zero -- it only means that you don't know anything about its momentum.


Actually, my point there was that you couldn't replicate it on the other end since you hadn't measured it (the momentum), so the "recreated" version of you on the other end might have no molecular movement. Granted, that does bring about a larger question - assuming you can reassemble something in the first place, how do you impart motion when it's being reassembled?
 
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