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(Christian Science Monitor)   Pentagon considering legal action over secrets in "No Easy Day," according to Pentagon spokesman Barbara Streisand   (csmonitor.com ) divider line
    More: Dumbass, Vera Wang, Naval Special Warfare Development Group, Pentagon officials, free daily  
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7461 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Sep 2012 at 3:09 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-05 02:29:25 PM  
5 votes:
As I recall, the Pentagon takes this sort of thing very seriously. you sign a stack of paperwork when you get your clearance...and one of the things you sign lays it out in great detail: if you write a book or an article for newspapers and the like...you clear it first. if you don't clear it with the Powers That Be, then you risk jail time.
2012-09-05 03:16:20 PM  
4 votes:
Of course he'd be a hero to everyone if it was released to Wikileaks.
2012-09-05 03:53:36 PM  
3 votes:

netizencain: Of course he'd be a hero to everyone if it was released to Wikileaks.


Bradley Manning is in prison. This guy is walking free.
That's the reality - f**k the fantasy.
2012-09-05 03:14:25 PM  
3 votes:

Science_Guy_3.14159: The only way I can see him getting out of this is if he gets HUGE public support, the DoD doesn't want to look like the bad guy to a bunch of people. I don't see that happening though.


Yup and he politicized his book just enough that charging him will rally republicans around him claiming persecution.
2012-09-05 03:00:24 PM  
3 votes:

Weaver95: As I recall, the Pentagon takes this sort of thing very seriously. you sign a stack of paperwork when you get your clearance...and one of the things you sign lays it out in great detail: if you write a book or an article for newspapers and the like...you clear it first. if you don't clear it with the Powers That Be, then you risk jail time.


True 'nuff. There are any number of people who do heroic stuff for their country, and are expected to take it to their graves. If this book is what it purports to be, I think the author has done a disservice to himself and his peers.

/and may be in a world of legal hurt, too. Rightly so, I guess.
2012-09-05 06:05:33 PM  
2 votes:

rufus-t-firefly: trackstr777: I read the book last night. His foreword makes it clear that pretty much any missions or details he discussed, are either already widely reported in the news, or are public knowledge. He changed names, except for high ranking officials (Admiral McRaven, etc.) who are already well known. I'm not in the Pentagon but I didn't have anything scream out at me that it was still confidential knowledge.

As far as technology, he referred to the bin Laden choppers as Blackhawks, and went into no detail about the suspected stealth technology on board. The only semi-shady thing mentioned in the book was that some CIA planners wanted them to bring a "sixty pound box that blocked cell phone signals"; while I don't think our government officially claims to have this tech, it's pretty much been believed for a while. Based on my general knowledge, and what I read ... I think he's going to be alright.

I noticed that he did discuss tactics - he mentioned the infrared chemlights that are thrown down to show an area has been cleared.

That could definitely be used to kill a few SEALs.


That reminds me: I had to apply for a security clearance a while ago, and they made me watch a video about the importance of protecting information. The video described an incident that apparently really happened in which some foreign enemy was able to kill a bunch of U.S. soldiers because they knew about a flaw in some piece of COTS hardware that the troops relied on. An engineer who worked for a defense contractor got into a discussion about that piece of hardware with a foreign agent (of course, he didn't know he was talking to a foreign agent) and revealed that, yes, the military was using it.

Moral of the story: no matter how mundane a bit of information about military technology and methods might seem to be, a clever bad guy may still find a way to kill people with it.
2012-09-05 03:52:00 PM  
2 votes:

The Decider: What are they going to do? The book has shipped already. If they were serious about this a week ago, they would have stopped the book from shipping. This is just the Pentagon trying to wipe the egg of it's face.


A week ago? Before the story broke, before the Pentagon even knew it was happening, dozens of people had already had their hands on the manuscript. It has passed through civilian computers, been read by editors and publishers, and passed through many hands. If they stopped it then, it's just up on the internet by the next week. There was no way to keep a lid on it by the time they knew. Now, they can only go after the original leak and punish him.

The info is already considered leaked and public. Damage done. Trying to stop that info from spreading is completely futile.
2012-09-05 03:39:07 PM  
2 votes:

Carth: Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial

Do you think they'd try him in civilian court vs a military tribunal?


Nope, recall to active duty to stand on the charges. If found guilty, most likely he'd receive a reduction in rank to E-1, forfeiture of all pay, allowances and benefits, dishonorable discharge or general discharge under other than honorable, and confinement of up to 5 years (suspended.) They wouldn't actually jail him and would likely give him a general discharge citing "abuse of a special position of trust" and "acts or omissions that endanger the security of the United States or the health and welfare of other members of the Military Services." In the end, the Pentagon will be able to say "Hey, we followed procedure and justice was served" while the SEAL goes on to say "Hey, where's my royalty check?"
2012-09-05 03:34:06 PM  
2 votes:

Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial


A military jury? Comprised of people who signed the exact same agreements that he did? Comprised of people who's life he risks by spilling secrets?

yeah, I can see them convicting him.
2012-09-05 03:30:14 PM  
2 votes:
Special Form 312. You sign it and you are liable for anything you disclose until the day you die or longer.

www.archives.gov/isoo/security-forms/sf312.pdf
2012-09-05 03:20:24 PM  
2 votes:

Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial


Do you think they'd try him in civilian court vs a military tribunal?
2012-09-05 03:18:06 PM  
2 votes:
And those millions he will earn, he earned it all on his own. He built the military, the guns he used, the helicopters he flew in on, and all the satellites and rockets put into space to take pictures. Oh, he built those cameras too. When you get rich in the US, it's always a solo venture!
2012-09-05 03:16:57 PM  
2 votes:
Oh. This thread again.
2012-09-05 03:12:51 PM  
2 votes:
I'll wait for the BDSM fanfic version.
2012-09-05 06:15:33 PM  
1 vote:

AirForceVet: Doing it to inform the American public of deliberate unethical, illegal, and/or disinformation by our government (i.e. the Pentagon Papers) is a higher road, but one must be prepared to pay the piper for doing it still too.


Funny thing is, if you actually read that SF-312, there is a catch in there, and in Federal Law, about whistleblowing to Congress.

The Pentagon Papers hit it big when they were delivered to Senator Mike Gravel, who read them into the record, which thus had protection under the Speech and Debate Clause of the Constitution.

If you have a classified document, or witness classified activities that are a violation of law or regulation, you do have the legal right under Title 10, U.S.C Section 1034 and DoD Directive 7050.06 to notify not just your Chain of Command, but an appropriate Inspector General's office, or even a Congressman if you feel it necessary. They even briefly mention this little escape clause in the SF-312, a reason to read it.

That's yet another reason I feel zero sympathy for PFC Manning. The white knights for him on the internet who say that he was exposing things don't quite realize he could have gone to a sympathetic Congressman (I'd bet Senator Bernie Sanders would be pretty willing to listen to a whistleblower, for example) and it be completely legal to shortcut the entire Chain of Command that way.

His CoC would have hated his guts, but legally they couldn't touch him. He'd probably be called to testify before Congress, and wouldn't have ended up Court Martialed, but his military career would probably dead end. Instead he thought it was the right thing to do was to give bulk data to a foreign national to dump on the open internet.
2012-09-05 05:57:25 PM  
1 vote:

Weaver95: As I recall, the Pentagon takes this sort of thing very seriously. you sign a stack of paperwork when you get your clearance...and one of the things you sign lays it out in great detail: if you write a book or an article for newspapers and the like...you clear it first. if you don't clear it with the Powers That Be, then you risk jail time.


Sue the author; charge him with disclosure of classified information already.

I have no sympathy for a veteran who had access to classified information writing about such for personal gain, be it financial and/or political purposes.

Doing it to inform the American public of deliberate unethical, illegal, and/or disinformation by our government (i.e. the Pentagon Papers) is a higher road, but one must be prepared to pay the piper for doing it still too.

However, the exact details of how Osama bin Laden died during the raid falls into the former category, rather than the latter, IMHO. Basically, the author was trying to Swift Boat Vet the President.
2012-09-05 05:53:08 PM  
1 vote:

Warlordtrooper: vartian: Warlordtrooper:

As long as he does not print classified material he's free to do as he pleases.

No, he isn't. You don't have the same rights as a member of the military you have as a civilian, and he signed away even more to get his classified status. He's farked, and you don't understand how the military works.

I'm under the impression that he is out of the military and has moved on to civilian life. If he's still In the military then yes but once he becomes a civilian again the government cannot supress his freedoms.


You REALLY don't understand how the military works. That SF-312 (or SF-189 or SF-189-A, depending on when he got his clearance) follows you for life.
Further, they can reactivate him at any time since he has specialized training. Also, IIRC, E7s are also subject to that reactivation.
So, yeah, he's boned.
2012-09-05 05:50:05 PM  
1 vote:
Has anyone mentioned that in his contract he signed, and reaffirmed upon discharge with another form that any proceeds from this book are by right the government's? He signed a contract explicitly stating he had to go through the official channels or he can have all money he makes from this book taken by the gov't. So forget the trials, civilian or military court. They just snatch the money in civil court, and guess which party can afford big time lawyers? My guess is a quiet settlement and he goes away with only his pension, with an agreement to avoid any legal penalties or getting busted down to E-1.
2012-09-05 05:44:44 PM  
1 vote:

Carth: Science_Guy_3.14159: The only way I can see him getting out of this is if he gets HUGE public support, the DoD doesn't want to look like the bad guy to a bunch of people. I don't see that happening though.

Yup and he politicized his book just enough that charging him will rally republicans around him claiming persecution.


[Publisher's assistant] "But if we release the book before the Pentagon gives us clearance won't that put the author in legal jeopardy?"

[Publisher] "Who cares? Having the Pentagon make a big deal about the book will make it fly off the shelves, and the political shiatstorm should be enough to cover the author's butt. Even if he does hang for divulging state secrets he's a greedy sell-out so, I say again, who cares?"

[Publisher's assistant] "I love you."

[Publisher] "I know."
2012-09-05 05:43:43 PM  
1 vote:

Warlordtrooper: vartian: Warlordtrooper:

As long as he does not print classified material he's free to do as he pleases.

No, he isn't. You don't have the same rights as a member of the military you have as a civilian, and he signed away even more to get his classified status. He's farked, and you don't understand how the military works.

I'm under the impression that he is out of the military and has moved on to civilian life. If he's still In the military then yes but once he becomes a civilian again the government cannot supress his freedoms.


He signed an agreement when he left the service that he had to let the gov't review anything he was planning on having published -before- it was published. If you go upthread there's a couple posts with links to the document he had to sign.
2012-09-05 05:41:01 PM  
1 vote:

lucksi: Weaver95: As I recall, the Pentagon takes this sort of thing very seriously. you sign a stack of paperwork when you get your clearance...and one of the things you sign lays it out in great detail: if you write a book or an article for newspapers and the like...you clear it first. if you don't clear it with the Powers That Be, then you risk jail time.

Nobody reads those, just sign on the dotted line or click "I accept"


When I was presented with mine to sign, ti came with a nice long lecture.

We were all herded into an auditorium. A full-bird Colonel came out and addressed us, talked for about 5 minutes about what kind of responsibility it meant to hold a security clearance, and the kind of public trust that meant. He then switched to telling just what kind of consequences they could bring on you if you broke that trust.

We were then presented with our SF-312 Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement, and told to read it. In case anybody decided not to read it, somebody read the most relevant parts to us aloud over the PA system. Basically you agree that the government can and will bone you hard if you blab secrets.

Want to read a blank copy of that NDA? Here is is: Link

This was all about a month before the whole Bradley Manning thing broke too. I'd imagine they use him as an example in modern versions of this same lecture.
2012-09-05 05:23:50 PM  
1 vote:

Warlordtrooper:

As long as he does not print classified material he's free to do as he pleases.


No, he isn't. You don't have the same rights as a member of the military you have as a civilian, and he signed away even more to get his classified status. He's farked, and you don't understand how the military works.
2012-09-05 05:21:49 PM  
1 vote:

that was my nickname in highschool: Brilliant marketing move, not submitting it for review. That decision is leading to more publicity than the book itself.


If the Pentagon wins the case, he won't see a single cent of profit and will probably be out quite a lot of money for lawyers and such. So...no. No very smart.
2012-09-05 05:20:50 PM  
1 vote:

sex0r: Haha. Obama all butthurt.


This is why I had your posts showing up in Derptard Red.

Now, we'll both be happier with you on my ignore list.

Well...I'LL be happier.

And that's what's important here.
2012-09-05 05:16:27 PM  
1 vote:

trackstr777: I read the book last night. His foreword makes it clear that pretty much any missions or details he discussed, are either already widely reported in the news, or are public knowledge. He changed names, except for high ranking officials (Admiral McRaven, etc.) who are already well known. I'm not in the Pentagon but I didn't have anything scream out at me that it was still confidential knowledge.

As far as technology, he referred to the bin Laden choppers as Blackhawks, and went into no detail about the suspected stealth technology on board. The only semi-shady thing mentioned in the book was that some CIA planners wanted them to bring a "sixty pound box that blocked cell phone signals"; while I don't think our government officially claims to have this tech, it's pretty much been believed for a while. Based on my general knowledge, and what I read ... I think he's going to be alright.


I noticed that he did discuss tactics - he mentioned the infrared chemlights that are thrown down to show an area has been cleared.

That could definitely be used to kill a few SEALs.
2012-09-05 04:47:06 PM  
1 vote:
Oh FFS! nevermind.
2012-09-05 04:47:06 PM  
1 vote:

netizencain: Of course he'd be a hero to everyone if it was released to Wikileaks.


Releasing it to Wikileaks would not be for profit and would mean he did it because he thought the story had to be told.

What we have in THIS case is a jerk who decided his word and his signature mean nothing if he can profit by violating agreements he has entered in to. I hope the DOD locks him up and throws away the key, or at least sues him until it is a net lo$$.
2012-09-05 04:44:10 PM  
1 vote:
Bissonnette would do best to prepare for his eventual loss in court because there's precedence the government can fall back on.
2012-09-05 04:34:30 PM  
1 vote:

Weaver95: As I recall, the Pentagon takes this sort of thing very seriously. you sign a stack of paperwork when you get your clearance...and one of the things you sign lays it out in great detail: if you write a book or an article for newspapers and the like...you clear it first. if you don't clear it with the Powers That Be, then you risk jail time.


Yes! It's only a single two-page form, but it's REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT! As soon as you're issued your initial clearance (regardless of access level), you're required to sign a non-disclosure agreement. No form means no clearance. Form is only two pages long, but it follows you everywhere. It stays on file with your facility security office for SIXTY YEARS from the date you signed and dated it.

The form isn't particularly exotic. In fact you can find it online right here and lots of other places. US Gov't SF-312 non-disclosure agreement pdf
2012-09-05 04:22:22 PM  
1 vote:
If any actual secrets were revealed in the book it would never have made it as far as being shipped.

Link
2012-09-05 04:09:47 PM  
1 vote:
This guy has gotten himself ostracized from the entire SEAL community. That might be both the only and the worst punishment he gets.
2012-09-05 04:06:28 PM  
1 vote:

bigbadideasinaction: IvanTheSilent: Carth: Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial

Do you think they'd try him in civilian court vs a military tribunal?

Nope, recall to active duty to stand on the charges. If found guilty, most likely he'd receive a reduction in rank to E-1, forfeiture of all pay, allowances and benefits, dishonorable discharge or general discharge under other than honorable, and confinement of up to 5 years (suspended.) They wouldn't actually jail him and would likely give him a general discharge citing "abuse of a special position of trust" and "acts or omissions that endanger the security of the United States or the health and welfare of other members of the Military Services." In the end, the Pentagon will be able to say "Hey, we followed procedure and justice was served" while the SEAL goes on to say "Hey, where's my royalty check?"

Aren't there "proceeds of crime" laws out there?


There are, but I'm not sure that the DoD would go after the money too. Honestly, this is too messy a situation. Chief Bissonnette should have kept his mouth shut. It's that plain and simple. Or he should have kicked the manuscript up his chain of command. They would have redacted everything they didn't like (and aparently, there isn't much that they don't like about the book.) If they do take the money, it will likely be reassigned to a support charity, like the Wounded Warrior or something. I simply don't know because I've never heard of a case where a genuine hero screwed up so badly.
2012-09-05 03:54:05 PM  
1 vote:

Brick-House: Im more concerned over all the leaks that have come from the WH and a good lawyer would have a field day bringing that out at trial.


Yes, that would get very far in a military court.
2012-09-05 03:51:31 PM  
1 vote:
Well the cat's out of the bag now, so they might as well let it slide. On the other hand, I wouldn't exactly be surprised to read that a domestic branch of bin Laden sympathizers took out some members of this guy's family in retribution. I may not have been a Navy SEAL, but I can figure out that if you were involved in killing a target like that you should have the brains to keep your mouth shut about it to prevent annoyed survivors from hunting you down later.
2012-09-05 03:50:03 PM  
1 vote:
Im more concerned over all the leaks that have come from the WH and a good lawyer would have a field day bringing that out at trial.
2012-09-05 03:44:50 PM  
1 vote:

MisterTweak: Weaver95: As I recall, the Pentagon takes this sort of thing very seriously. you sign a stack of paperwork when you get your clearance...and one of the things you sign lays it out in great detail: if you write a book or an article for newspapers and the like...you clear it first. if you don't clear it with the Powers That Be, then you risk jail time.

True 'nuff. There are any number of people who do heroic stuff for their country, and are expected to take it to their graves. If this book is what it purports to be, I think the author has done a disservice to himself and his peers.

/and may be in a world of legal hurt, too. Rightly so, I guess.


kind of a dick move, so cool now he has the first to market and everyone else there who rightfully kept quiet now don't get any payout cept this guy... what a team player...
2012-09-05 03:34:36 PM  
1 vote:

Pathman: am i a moran? i don't get the babs reference.


Streisand Effect. An attempt to suppress publication of information results in widespread publicity for the suppressed information. Not really applicable here, because I haven't seen anything about attempts to seize the books or prevent distribution--just possible legal action against the author, which isn't really a Streisand Effect kind of thing. Subby was stretching a bit for a clever headline.
Link
2012-09-05 03:33:16 PM  
1 vote:

Pathman: am i a moran? i don't get the babs reference.


If so, I must be a moran too, because I don't get it either.
2012-09-05 03:32:01 PM  
1 vote:
He'll likely get away with it because when it comes right down to it, there are likely few if any truly classified "secrets" in the book, other than the general..."Don't talk about it" and the fact that he did not get pre-publication clearance.

It is not a secret that we use helicopters to get in and out. That there are rehersals and many resources involved. General assault sweep and find tactics are not "secret", even weapons (except those not mentioned ;) are not secret. In general, anyone has yet to stand up and say "This revelation" was secret and gives away an intelligence advantage.

More intelligence was lost a 100 times over in the crashed copter than this "true account"

The same goes for supposed "secrets" leaked by the administration.
2012-09-05 03:24:50 PM  
1 vote:
What are they going to do, take his security clearance away and say he can't be NSW anymore?

How about we all look for some ducks?
2012-09-05 03:24:30 PM  
1 vote:
am i a moran? i don't get the babs reference.
2012-09-05 03:22:47 PM  
1 vote:
No, but see, because The Obama isn't legally the President, being foreign muslin, and What Not, all that lawful order business goes out the window and it's Easy Day's patriotic duty, his Constitutional mandate, and What Not, to defend Homeland against this domestic enemy. Whatever else is going on with the DoD is immaterial because the #1 priority is to defend Homeland and anyone who opposes this book, or supports the position of the Pretender to the Presidency, is likewise an enemy of Truth and the Troops, to be neither respected nor obeyed.

Such is this brave man's task.
2012-09-05 03:22:18 PM  
1 vote:

Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial

A CIVILIAN jury trial? Perhaps not. A military tribunal? May be a rather different story...
2012-09-05 03:22:11 PM  
1 vote:

Carth: Science_Guy_3.14159: The only way I can see him getting out of this is if he gets HUGE public support, the DoD doesn't want to look like the bad guy to a bunch of people. I don't see that happening though.

Yup and he politicized his book just enough that charging him will rally republicans around him claiming persecution.


some say he was recruited to write the book.
2012-09-05 03:20:24 PM  
1 vote:
I'd be more inclined to believe the author's story / pentagon's supposed outrage if the book had pictures. I don't think the PR piece of pseudo-fiction that is sitting on bookshelves right now *actually* threatens our national security in any way... The timing of the book release seems more like a "hey remember how we got this bad guy? Here's a reminder".

/still voting for Obama
2012-09-05 03:19:38 PM  
1 vote:
The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial
2012-09-05 02:36:09 PM  
1 vote:
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
 
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