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(Christian Science Monitor)   Pentagon considering legal action over secrets in "No Easy Day," according to Pentagon spokesman Barbara Streisand   (csmonitor.com) divider line 171
    More: Dumbass, Vera Wang, Naval Special Warfare Development Group, Pentagon officials, free daily  
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7453 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Sep 2012 at 3:09 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-05 02:29:25 PM  
As I recall, the Pentagon takes this sort of thing very seriously. you sign a stack of paperwork when you get your clearance...and one of the things you sign lays it out in great detail: if you write a book or an article for newspapers and the like...you clear it first. if you don't clear it with the Powers That Be, then you risk jail time.
 
2012-09-05 02:36:09 PM  
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
 
2012-09-05 02:39:30 PM  
The only way I can see him getting out of this is if he gets HUGE public support, the DoD doesn't want to look like the bad guy to a bunch of people. I don't see that happening though.
 
2012-09-05 03:00:24 PM  

Weaver95: As I recall, the Pentagon takes this sort of thing very seriously. you sign a stack of paperwork when you get your clearance...and one of the things you sign lays it out in great detail: if you write a book or an article for newspapers and the like...you clear it first. if you don't clear it with the Powers That Be, then you risk jail time.


True 'nuff. There are any number of people who do heroic stuff for their country, and are expected to take it to their graves. If this book is what it purports to be, I think the author has done a disservice to himself and his peers.

/and may be in a world of legal hurt, too. Rightly so, I guess.
 
2012-09-05 03:12:51 PM  
I'll wait for the BDSM fanfic version.
 
2012-09-05 03:14:25 PM  

Science_Guy_3.14159: The only way I can see him getting out of this is if he gets HUGE public support, the DoD doesn't want to look like the bad guy to a bunch of people. I don't see that happening though.


Yup and he politicized his book just enough that charging him will rally republicans around him claiming persecution.
 
2012-09-05 03:15:49 PM  

WTF Indeed: I'll wait for the BDSM fanfic version.


No Easy Shades?
 
2012-09-05 03:16:20 PM  
Of course he'd be a hero to everyone if it was released to Wikileaks.
 
2012-09-05 03:16:57 PM  
Oh. This thread again.
 
2012-09-05 03:17:39 PM  

Weaver95: As I recall, the Pentagon takes this sort of thing very seriously. you sign a stack of paperwork when you get your clearance...and one of the things you sign lays it out in great detail: if you write a book or an article for newspapers and the like...you clear it first. if you don't clear it with the Powers That Be, then you risk jail time.


Nobody reads those, just sign on the dotted line or click "I accept"
 
2012-09-05 03:18:06 PM  
And those millions he will earn, he earned it all on his own. He built the military, the guns he used, the helicopters he flew in on, and all the satellites and rockets put into space to take pictures. Oh, he built those cameras too. When you get rich in the US, it's always a solo venture!
 
2012-09-05 03:18:32 PM  

Carth: Science_Guy_3.14159: The only way I can see him getting out of this is if he gets HUGE public support, the DoD doesn't want to look like the bad guy to a bunch of people. I don't see that happening though.

Yup and he politicized his book just enough that charging him will rally republicans around him claiming persecution.


That went right out the window when Fox named him.
 
2012-09-05 03:18:45 PM  
What are they going to do? The book has shipped already. If they were serious about this a week ago, they would have stopped the book from shipping. This is just the Pentagon trying to wipe the egg of it's face.
 
2012-09-05 03:19:38 PM  
The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial
 
2012-09-05 03:20:24 PM  
I'd be more inclined to believe the author's story / pentagon's supposed outrage if the book had pictures. I don't think the PR piece of pseudo-fiction that is sitting on bookshelves right now *actually* threatens our national security in any way... The timing of the book release seems more like a "hey remember how we got this bad guy? Here's a reminder".

/still voting for Obama
 
2012-09-05 03:20:24 PM  

Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial


Do you think they'd try him in civilian court vs a military tribunal?
 
2012-09-05 03:21:32 PM  
991.com

Barbra Streisand was pretty hot back in the day.
 
2012-09-05 03:22:07 PM  

Carth: Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial

Do you think they'd try him in civilian court vs a military tribunal?


Nah, they'd send him to GITMO
 
2012-09-05 03:22:11 PM  

Carth: Science_Guy_3.14159: The only way I can see him getting out of this is if he gets HUGE public support, the DoD doesn't want to look like the bad guy to a bunch of people. I don't see that happening though.

Yup and he politicized his book just enough that charging him will rally republicans around him claiming persecution.


some say he was recruited to write the book.
 
2012-09-05 03:22:18 PM  

Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial

A CIVILIAN jury trial? Perhaps not. A military tribunal? May be a rather different story...
 
2012-09-05 03:22:47 PM  
No, but see, because The Obama isn't legally the President, being foreign muslin, and What Not, all that lawful order business goes out the window and it's Easy Day's patriotic duty, his Constitutional mandate, and What Not, to defend Homeland against this domestic enemy. Whatever else is going on with the DoD is immaterial because the #1 priority is to defend Homeland and anyone who opposes this book, or supports the position of the Pretender to the Presidency, is likewise an enemy of Truth and the Troops, to be neither respected nor obeyed.

Such is this brave man's task.
 
2012-09-05 03:24:10 PM  

Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial


They'd have a military tribunal, or cook up some administrative procedure to achieve their objectives.
 
2012-09-05 03:24:30 PM  
am i a moran? i don't get the babs reference.
 
2012-09-05 03:24:41 PM  
Haha. Obama all butthurt.
 
2012-09-05 03:24:50 PM  
What are they going to do, take his security clearance away and say he can't be NSW anymore?

How about we all look for some ducks?
 
2012-09-05 03:26:52 PM  

vernonFL: Barbra Streisand was pretty hot back in the day.


knee socks do not hot make
 
2012-09-05 03:28:15 PM  
Barbara Streisand giving extra publicity to information she'd prefer not to be common knowledge?

If only there was a word for that phenomenon.
 
2012-09-05 03:29:11 PM  
Will he get the Bradley Manning treatment?
 
2012-09-05 03:30:14 PM  
Special Form 312. You sign it and you are liable for anything you disclose until the day you die or longer.

www.archives.gov/isoo/security-forms/sf312.pdf
 
2012-09-05 03:30:55 PM  
And will the DOJ go after the WH for the information they disclosed for the movie Zero Dark Thirty?
 
2012-09-05 03:30:59 PM  
"That reminds me of when I was a Navy Seal..."

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-09-05 03:32:01 PM  
He'll likely get away with it because when it comes right down to it, there are likely few if any truly classified "secrets" in the book, other than the general..."Don't talk about it" and the fact that he did not get pre-publication clearance.

It is not a secret that we use helicopters to get in and out. That there are rehersals and many resources involved. General assault sweep and find tactics are not "secret", even weapons (except those not mentioned ;) are not secret. In general, anyone has yet to stand up and say "This revelation" was secret and gives away an intelligence advantage.

More intelligence was lost a 100 times over in the crashed copter than this "true account"

The same goes for supposed "secrets" leaked by the administration.
 
2012-09-05 03:33:10 PM  

Weaver95: As I recall, the Pentagon takes this sort of thing very seriously. you sign a stack of paperwork when you get your clearance...and one of the things you sign lays it out in great detail: if you write a book or an article for newspapers and the like...you clear it first. if you don't clear it with the Powers That Be, then you risk jail time.


Two weeks ago, I was trying to figure out why journalists would treat No Easy Day as accurate since they hadn't read it yet, it was all so secretive -- where were their double sources?

But now it seems the DoD has confirmed via Streisand that the book can be taken seriously.

... Until you realize the book itself is a false flag intended to divert attention away from our capture of Bin Laden and keeping him AND his corpse alive until we negotiate with the greys over the release of the black oil virus.
 
2012-09-05 03:33:16 PM  

Pathman: am i a moran? i don't get the babs reference.


If so, I must be a moran too, because I don't get it either.
 
2012-09-05 03:33:35 PM  
Brilliant marketing move, not submitting it for review. That decision is leading to more publicity than the book itself.
 
2012-09-05 03:34:06 PM  

Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial


A military jury? Comprised of people who signed the exact same agreements that he did? Comprised of people who's life he risks by spilling secrets?

yeah, I can see them convicting him.
 
2012-09-05 03:34:10 PM  

Cyberluddite: Pathman: am i a moran? i don't get the babs reference.

If so, I must be a moran too, because I don't get it either.


Streisand effect, goggle it.
 
2012-09-05 03:34:36 PM  

Pathman: am i a moran? i don't get the babs reference.


Streisand Effect. An attempt to suppress publication of information results in widespread publicity for the suppressed information. Not really applicable here, because I haven't seen anything about attempts to seize the books or prevent distribution--just possible legal action against the author, which isn't really a Streisand Effect kind of thing. Subby was stretching a bit for a clever headline.
Link
 
2012-09-05 03:35:10 PM  

netizencain: Of course he'd be a hero to everyone if it was released to Wikileaks.


I don't think so. Where is the soldier who released all that stuff to wikikleaks? A cleb on the cocktail circuit? No, he's in detention at Levenworth awaiting court martial.
 
2012-09-05 03:36:29 PM  

Cyberluddite: Pathman: am i a moran? i don't get the babs reference.

If so, I must be a moran too, because I don't get it either.


I don't know if you are morans that's not for me to say but here:

Streisand effect
 
2012-09-05 03:37:03 PM  

slat1040: He'll likely get away with it because when it comes right down to it, there are likely few if any truly classified "secrets" in the book, other than the general..."Don't talk about it" and the fact that he did not get pre-publication clearance.


Perhaps there's something that reveals the source of their intel? I dunno, perhaps the whole thing's a clever ruse to confound the Al Qaida.
 
2012-09-05 03:38:39 PM  
Has anyone pointed out that Subby spelled Barbra Streisand's name wrong?
 
2012-09-05 03:39:07 PM  

Carth: Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial

Do you think they'd try him in civilian court vs a military tribunal?


Nope, recall to active duty to stand on the charges. If found guilty, most likely he'd receive a reduction in rank to E-1, forfeiture of all pay, allowances and benefits, dishonorable discharge or general discharge under other than honorable, and confinement of up to 5 years (suspended.) They wouldn't actually jail him and would likely give him a general discharge citing "abuse of a special position of trust" and "acts or omissions that endanger the security of the United States or the health and welfare of other members of the Military Services." In the end, the Pentagon will be able to say "Hey, we followed procedure and justice was served" while the SEAL goes on to say "Hey, where's my royalty check?"
 
2012-09-05 03:39:29 PM  

Science_Guy_3.14159: The only way I can see him getting out of this is if he gets HUGE public support, the DoD doesn't want to look like the bad guy to a bunch of people. I don't see that happening though.


Huge public support would make the need to smack him down more urgent.
 
2012-09-05 03:39:38 PM  

Carth: Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial

Do you think they'd try him in civilian court vs a military tribunal?


From what I have been able to find out in a quick search, he retired as a chief (lower case "c" serves as my opinion of this matter), therefore he isn't actually retired but has been transferred to the Fleet Reserve List. He can be recalled to active service at any time until he has attained thirty years total service time. So, no civilian trial for this guy if the military decides to prosecute.
 
2012-09-05 03:41:21 PM  
FTA:"The Justice Department would have moved in and shut down the publication of the book," the authors note, adding that the Pentagon's general counselor has "yet to point out specific disclosures."

Does anyone actually think if the Pentagon thought there was actionable secrets reveald this book would have seen the printing press?
Move along, nothing to see here
 
2012-09-05 03:43:10 PM  

The Southern Logic Company: WTF Indeed: I'll wait for the BDSM fanfic version.

No Easy Shades?


I was going to go with '50 Shades of Green' because of the night vision goggles.
 
2012-09-05 03:43:28 PM  

Carth: Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial

Do you think they'd try him in civilian court vs a military tribunal?


it really wouldn't matter. the public outrage over it wouldn't be worth their trouble. i haven't read the book but I doubt there is really anything in it that is cone of silence worthy
 
2012-09-05 03:43:39 PM  
Nicely played, subby.
 
2012-09-05 03:44:47 PM  
Babs knows what she is talking about when it comes to the DoD.

She is sometimes their secret weapon

i37.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-05 03:44:50 PM  

MisterTweak: Weaver95: As I recall, the Pentagon takes this sort of thing very seriously. you sign a stack of paperwork when you get your clearance...and one of the things you sign lays it out in great detail: if you write a book or an article for newspapers and the like...you clear it first. if you don't clear it with the Powers That Be, then you risk jail time.

True 'nuff. There are any number of people who do heroic stuff for their country, and are expected to take it to their graves. If this book is what it purports to be, I think the author has done a disservice to himself and his peers.

/and may be in a world of legal hurt, too. Rightly so, I guess.


kind of a dick move, so cool now he has the first to market and everyone else there who rightfully kept quiet now don't get any payout cept this guy... what a team player...
 
2012-09-05 03:45:40 PM  

The Southern Logic Company: WTF Indeed: I'll wait for the BDSM fanfic version.

No Easy Shades?


I'll wait for the porn version.

/No Easy Shades for Sasha Grey
 
2012-09-05 03:45:41 PM  
If they ever decide to prosecute, he'll probably just stage his death in the Chesapeake Bay and become a CIA agent.
 
2012-09-05 03:46:15 PM  

Brick-House: And will the DOJ go after the WH for the information they disclosed for the movie Zero Dark Thirty?


As this is a work of fiction with no proof of any classified information supplied to facilitate its production, what would the DOJ do, exactly?
 
2012-09-05 03:47:00 PM  

lunchinlewis: If they ever decide to prosecute, he'll probably just stage his death in the Chesapeake Bay and become a CIA agent.


Mr. Clark has more class than this guy.
 
2012-09-05 03:48:04 PM  

Raoul Eaton: Pathman: am i a moran? i don't get the babs reference.

Streisand Effect. An attempt to suppress publication of information results in widespread publicity for the suppressed information. Not really applicable here, because I haven't seen anything about attempts to seize the books or prevent distribution--just possible legal action against the author, which isn't really a Streisand Effect kind of thing. Subby was stretching a bit for a clever headline.
Link


oh right. so to answer my own question - yep, moran.
 
2012-09-05 03:49:14 PM  
Did they ever check to see if that was really OBL they dumped overboard? Someone was supposed to go down there and check it out.
 
2012-09-05 03:50:03 PM  
Im more concerned over all the leaks that have come from the WH and a good lawyer would have a field day bringing that out at trial.
 
2012-09-05 03:51:31 PM  
Well the cat's out of the bag now, so they might as well let it slide. On the other hand, I wouldn't exactly be surprised to read that a domestic branch of bin Laden sympathizers took out some members of this guy's family in retribution. I may not have been a Navy SEAL, but I can figure out that if you were involved in killing a target like that you should have the brains to keep your mouth shut about it to prevent annoyed survivors from hunting you down later.
 
2012-09-05 03:52:00 PM  

The Decider: What are they going to do? The book has shipped already. If they were serious about this a week ago, they would have stopped the book from shipping. This is just the Pentagon trying to wipe the egg of it's face.


A week ago? Before the story broke, before the Pentagon even knew it was happening, dozens of people had already had their hands on the manuscript. It has passed through civilian computers, been read by editors and publishers, and passed through many hands. If they stopped it then, it's just up on the internet by the next week. There was no way to keep a lid on it by the time they knew. Now, they can only go after the original leak and punish him.

The info is already considered leaked and public. Damage done. Trying to stop that info from spreading is completely futile.
 
2012-09-05 03:52:26 PM  

MisterTweak:
True 'nuff. There are any number of people who do heroic stuff for their country, and are expected to take it to their graves. If this book is what it purports to be, I think the author has done a disservice to himself and his peers.


How so?

The path to victory is to train and train and train. Secret techniques gain you nothing.
 
2012-09-05 03:53:36 PM  

netizencain: Of course he'd be a hero to everyone if it was released to Wikileaks.


Bradley Manning is in prison. This guy is walking free.
That's the reality - f**k the fantasy.
 
2012-09-05 03:54:05 PM  

Brick-House: Im more concerned over all the leaks that have come from the WH and a good lawyer would have a field day bringing that out at trial.


Yes, that would get very far in a military court.
 
2012-09-05 03:56:14 PM  

IvanTheSilent: Carth: Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial

Do you think they'd try him in civilian court vs a military tribunal?

Nope, recall to active duty to stand on the charges. If found guilty, most likely he'd receive a reduction in rank to E-1, forfeiture of all pay, allowances and benefits, dishonorable discharge or general discharge under other than honorable, and confinement of up to 5 years (suspended.) They wouldn't actually jail him and would likely give him a general discharge citing "abuse of a special position of trust" and "acts or omissions that endanger the security of the United States or the health and welfare of other members of the Military Services." In the end, the Pentagon will be able to say "Hey, we followed procedure and justice was served" while the SEAL goes on to say "Hey, where's my royalty check?"


Aren't there "proceeds of crime" laws out there?
 
2012-09-05 03:56:26 PM  

neversubmit: Will he get the Bradley Manning treatment?


No. There may be civil action, but nobody is talking about criminal charges at this point.
He probably hasn't done anything criminal, strictly speaking.
 
2012-09-05 03:57:01 PM  

what_now: Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial

A military jury? Comprised of people who signed the exact same agreements that he did? Comprised of people who's life he risks by spilling secrets?

yeah, I can see them convicting him.



You realize that "Mark Owen" is a civilian now, right?

Anything they tried to do legally would go through the federal court system, so he wouldn't have a "military jury."

He spent more than the requisite 8 years in, so it's not like he's on IRR and can be recalled and he didn't have the 20 in to formally retire, so...Safe from being called back there, too.

In short, he's no more answerable to the UCMJ or a military court than the next random guy on the street is.
 
2012-09-05 03:58:11 PM  

CygnusDarius: The Southern Logic Company: WTF Indeed: I'll wait for the BDSM fanfic version.

No Easy Shades?

I'll wait for the porn version.

/No Easy Shades for Sasha Grey


I doubt anything about Sasha Grey isn't "Easy"
 
2012-09-05 04:00:52 PM  
Why is "Vera Wang" one of the tags for this thread?

/exactly what kind of "insider details" did this guy put in his book?
 
2012-09-05 04:05:50 PM  

vernonFL: [991.com image 450x475]

Barbra Streisand was pretty hot back in the day.


Nice legs. The rest? Meh.
 
2012-09-05 04:06:28 PM  

bigbadideasinaction: IvanTheSilent: Carth: Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial

Do you think they'd try him in civilian court vs a military tribunal?

Nope, recall to active duty to stand on the charges. If found guilty, most likely he'd receive a reduction in rank to E-1, forfeiture of all pay, allowances and benefits, dishonorable discharge or general discharge under other than honorable, and confinement of up to 5 years (suspended.) They wouldn't actually jail him and would likely give him a general discharge citing "abuse of a special position of trust" and "acts or omissions that endanger the security of the United States or the health and welfare of other members of the Military Services." In the end, the Pentagon will be able to say "Hey, we followed procedure and justice was served" while the SEAL goes on to say "Hey, where's my royalty check?"

Aren't there "proceeds of crime" laws out there?


There are, but I'm not sure that the DoD would go after the money too. Honestly, this is too messy a situation. Chief Bissonnette should have kept his mouth shut. It's that plain and simple. Or he should have kicked the manuscript up his chain of command. They would have redacted everything they didn't like (and aparently, there isn't much that they don't like about the book.) If they do take the money, it will likely be reassigned to a support charity, like the Wounded Warrior or something. I simply don't know because I've never heard of a case where a genuine hero screwed up so badly.
 
2012-09-05 04:06:33 PM  

Old_Chief_Scott: lunchinlewis: If they ever decide to prosecute, he'll probably just stage his death in the Chesapeake Bay and become a CIA agent.

Mr. Clark has more class than this guy.


I'm not at all surprised you were the first to pick that up.
 
2012-09-05 04:06:37 PM  

Karma313th: what_now: Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial

A military jury? Comprised of people who signed the exact same agreements that he did? Comprised of people who's life he risks by spilling secrets?

yeah, I can see them convicting him.


You realize that "Mark Owen" is a civilian now, right?

Anything they tried to do legally would go through the federal court system, so he wouldn't have a "military jury."

He spent more than the requisite 8 years in, so it's not like he's on IRR and can be recalled and he didn't have the 20 in to formally retire, so...Safe from being called back there, too.

In short, he's no more answerable to the UCMJ or a military court than the next random guy on the street is.


I think you may have a flaw in your logic. There's active duty, reserve duty, and inactive duty. It's one of the things they emphasize after you enlist - sure, your enlistment only states 2 years of duty pursuant to the needs of the military, but you've actually got 8 total years. 6 of those are inactive and you're subject to involuntary recall if needed.

Additionally, depending on the way the security clearance laws and rules are written, he may still be tried under the UCMJ.

IANAL, just going from memory here.
 
2012-09-05 04:07:35 PM  

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: /exactly what kind of "insider details" did this guy put in his book?


Depends on what you're looking for by "insider".

He does provide a pretty detailed walk through of events preceding, during and after the raid.

Nothing particularly groundbreaking, other than confirmation the story Obama and the Whitehouse put out was pretty much pure BS. And even the WH had somewhat admitted that not too long after when they admitted that that "not all the details were entirely accurate."

If you're looking for classified facts or tactics, they're really not here. He goes into more detail with selection and training than the Navy's probably comfortable with, and I doubt they're happy with his forthrightness on same aspects of conversations that took place, but otherwise...
 
2012-09-05 04:08:43 PM  

Raoul Eaton: Pathman: am i a moran? i don't get the babs reference.

Streisand Effect. An attempt to suppress publication of information results in widespread publicity for the suppressed information. Not really applicable here, because I haven't seen anything about attempts to seize the books or prevent distribution--just possible legal action against the author, which isn't really a Streisand Effect kind of thing. Subby was stretching a bit for a clever headline.
Link


Not to mention it's already #1 on Amazon. How much more publicity could it get?
 
2012-09-05 04:09:47 PM  
This guy has gotten himself ostracized from the entire SEAL community. That might be both the only and the worst punishment he gets.
 
2012-09-05 04:10:10 PM  

WTF Indeed: I'll wait for the BDSM fanfic version.


They skipped right past that and went straight to the LARP.

/my state is freakin' weird
 
2012-09-05 04:14:26 PM  

xmasbaby: This guy has gotten himself ostracized from the entire SEAL community. That might be both the only and the worst punishment he gets.



QFT.

even marcinko has his detractors within the community. funny thing about SEALs, when you break ranks, they tend to get pissed off.


back when this happened, adam carolla had a funny bit about being the guy that iced bin laden, citing the whole secrecy thing. he's like, "can you imagine beign that guy? you can't say anything but it is the biggest story in the world? can you imagine how much pussy you'd get if you were allowed to say you were the guy?"

(it isn't funny the way i'm describing it but aceman was hilraious.)
 
2012-09-05 04:18:42 PM  

ronaprhys: Karma313th: what_now: Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial

A military jury? Comprised of people who signed the exact same agreements that he did? Comprised of people who's life he risks by spilling secrets?

yeah, I can see them convicting him.


You realize that "Mark Owen" is a civilian now, right?

Anything they tried to do legally would go through the federal court system, so he wouldn't have a "military jury."

He spent more than the requisite 8 years in, so it's not like he's on IRR and can be recalled and he didn't have the 20 in to formally retire, so...Safe from being called back there, too.

In short, he's no more answerable to the UCMJ or a military court than the next random guy on the street is.

I think you may have a flaw in your logic. There's active duty, reserve duty, and inactive duty. It's one of the things they emphasize after you enlist - sure, your enlistment only states 2 years of duty pursuant to the needs of the military, but you've actually got 8 total years. 6 of those are inactive and you're subject to involuntary recall if needed.

Additionally, depending on the way the security clearance laws and rules are written, he may still be tried under the UCMJ.

IANAL, just going from memory here.



I'm aware of the distinction between active, reserve and IRR.

I think you may have misunderstood.

I said "Mark Owen" put in more than 8 years on active duty. Therefore he's fulfilled the obligations of his enlistment contract and isn't subject to serving additional time in IRR status.

Likewise, had he put in 20 years and retired, he would have been subject to recall to active duty for life. However, since he didn't retire and instead was discharged (he was 5 years short, I believe), he doesn't have that hanging over him either.

And no, that he had a clearance at one point in time has nothing to do with subjecting him to the UCMJ. The document in question is the SF312, which I'm very familiar with myself.

Violating the NDA can subject you to severe problems on the criminal and civil front, to be sure. However, once you're "out" out, the UCMJ ain't one of them.
 
2012-09-05 04:18:44 PM  
I read the book last night. His foreword makes it clear that pretty much any missions or details he discussed, are either already widely reported in the news, or are public knowledge. He changed names, except for high ranking officials (Admiral McRaven, etc.) who are already well known. I'm not in the Pentagon but I didn't have anything scream out at me that it was still confidential knowledge.

As far as technology, he referred to the bin Laden choppers as Blackhawks, and went into no detail about the suspected stealth technology on board. The only semi-shady thing mentioned in the book was that some CIA planners wanted them to bring a "sixty pound box that blocked cell phone signals"; while I don't think our government officially claims to have this tech, it's pretty much been believed for a while. Based on my general knowledge, and what I read ... I think he's going to be alright.
 
2012-09-05 04:18:51 PM  

ronaprhys: Karma313th: what_now: Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial

A military jury? Comprised of people who signed the exact same agreements that he did? Comprised of people who's life he risks by spilling secrets?

yeah, I can see them convicting him.


You realize that "Mark Owen" is a civilian now, right?

Anything they tried to do legally would go through the federal court system, so he wouldn't have a "military jury."

He spent more than the requisite 8 years in, so it's not like he's on IRR and can be recalled and he didn't have the 20 in to formally retire, so...Safe from being called back there, too.

In short, he's no more answerable to the UCMJ or a military court than the next random guy on the street is.

I think you may have a flaw in your logic. There's active duty, reserve duty, and inactive duty. It's one of the things they emphasize after you enlist - sure, your enlistment only states 2 years of duty pursuant to the needs of the military, but you've actually got 8 total years. 6 of those are inactive and you're subject to involuntary recall if needed.

Additionally, depending on the way the security clearance laws and rules are written, he may still be tried under the UCMJ.

IANAL, just going from memory here.


This is exactly right. Regardless of the reason for your separation from service (eg, contract is up, retirement, medical discharge,) you are obligated to at least two years in the Individual Ready Reserve unless your separation states otherwise (eg, a dishonorable discharge after a period of confinement would preclude you from IRR status.) If you are a retiree, and eligible for retirement benefits (as Chief Bissonnette is,) then your tail is eligible for recall at any time until the day you freakin' die, unless you want to give up that pension. Normally, however, they will not call you back after your IRR period (again, 2 years, up to 6 years) unless there's good reason (For example, MSG Roy Benavidez was recalled to active duty for 1 day in 1981, so President Reagan could present him with the Medal of Honor.)

As I said before, though, Bissonnette screwed up, but this has the potential to be a lot more embarassing to the Navy. They'll have some sort of show trial, the Chief will get a slap on the wrist, and everyone goes away happy.
 
2012-09-05 04:20:27 PM  

Weaver95: As I recall, the Pentagon takes this sort of thing very seriously. you sign a stack of paperwork when you get your clearance...and one of the things you sign lays it out in great detail: if you write a book or an article for newspapers and the like...you clear it first. if you don't clear it with the Powers That Be, then you risk jail time.


Sure, but as long as you are cool with persecuting a SEAL for doing essentially the same thing that the White House did within hours of the raid. Also you should be cool with persecuting a man who is by all rights a national hero.,...persecuting him mostly because he disagreed with the President and made Obama look bad. The White House has been shown to have been shopping the story for a Movie, Leaked information which got one of our assets in Pakistan sent to a prison camp, and has been pushing the credit for the raid as close to the President as they can without photoshopping him into a picture of the SEALs shooting Bin Laden.

But as long as we are being all hard-ass and enforcing the law against a national hero for something he said in a book......

Lets apply the same Logic to old Barry.

In his memoir Obama admits to actions which constitute felony possession of a controlled substance with intent to distribute, distribution to minors, and a whole host of individual possession felonies. Sounds like by your logic we need to have Obama Arrested so he can be arraigned and charged so he can clear his good name by admitting that everything he ever wrote in his memoir was a fabrication.
 
2012-09-05 04:22:22 PM  
If any actual secrets were revealed in the book it would never have made it as far as being shipped.

Link
 
2012-09-05 04:24:14 PM  

Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial



Wouldn't it be a court-marshal?
 
2012-09-05 04:25:12 PM  

IvanTheSilent:

This is exactly right. Regardless of the reason for your separation from service (eg, contract is up, retirement, medical discharge,) you are obligated to at least two years in the Individual Ready Reserve unless your separation states otherwise (eg, a dishonorable discharge after a period of confinement would preclude you from IRR status.) If you are a retiree, and eligible for retirement benefits (as Chief Bissonnette is,) then your tail is eligible for recall at any time until the day you freakin' die, unless you want to give up t ...


Bissonnette DIDN'T retire.

He didn't have the time in to be eligible to put in his papers. Bissonnette had 14 years of service at the time of his discharge.

I think the confusion is the press is throwing around "retired" without realizing it has a very specific meaning in the military.
 
2012-09-05 04:30:16 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Science_Guy_3.14159: The only way I can see him getting out of this is if he gets HUGE public support, the DoD doesn't want to look like the bad guy to a bunch of people. I don't see that happening though.

Huge public support would make the need to smack him down more urgent.


I am just thinking what happened with Daniel Ellsberg when he leaked the Pentagon Papers, although he had the press, the public and members of congress backing him. Also the Supreme Court ruling in the US vs New York Times probably helped him.
 
2012-09-05 04:34:28 PM  

strangeguitar: Babs knows what she is talking about when it comes to the DoD.

She is sometimes their secret weapon


But the DoD has a secret weapon against Babs

philosophychild.files.wordpress.com

upload.wikimedia.org

NEIL DIAMOND!!!
 
2012-09-05 04:34:30 PM  

Weaver95: As I recall, the Pentagon takes this sort of thing very seriously. you sign a stack of paperwork when you get your clearance...and one of the things you sign lays it out in great detail: if you write a book or an article for newspapers and the like...you clear it first. if you don't clear it with the Powers That Be, then you risk jail time.


Yes! It's only a single two-page form, but it's REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT! As soon as you're issued your initial clearance (regardless of access level), you're required to sign a non-disclosure agreement. No form means no clearance. Form is only two pages long, but it follows you everywhere. It stays on file with your facility security office for SIXTY YEARS from the date you signed and dated it.

The form isn't particularly exotic. In fact you can find it online right here and lots of other places. US Gov't SF-312 non-disclosure agreement pdf
 
2012-09-05 04:36:29 PM  

lunchinlewis: Old_Chief_Scott: lunchinlewis: If they ever decide to prosecute, he'll probably just stage his death in the Chesapeake Bay and become a CIA agent.

Mr. Clark has more class than this guy.

I'm not at all surprised you were the first to pick that up.


Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
 
2012-09-05 04:38:48 PM  

Gecko Gingrich: Wouldn't it be a court-marshal?


*martial


/Id'jut
 
2012-09-05 04:39:14 PM  

Karma313th: IvanTheSilent:

This is exactly right. Regardless of the reason for your separation from service (eg, contract is up, retirement, medical discharge,) you are obligated to at least two years in the Individual Ready Reserve unless your separation states otherwise (eg, a dishonorable discharge after a period of confinement would preclude you from IRR status.) If you are a retiree, and eligible for retirement benefits (as Chief Bissonnette is,) then your tail is eligible for recall at any time until the day you freakin' die, unless you want to give up t ...

Bissonnette DIDN'T retire.

He didn't have the time in to be eligible to put in his papers. Bissonnette had 14 years of service at the time of his discharge.

I think the confusion is the press is throwing around "retired" without realizing it has a very specific meaning in the military.


Everything I've seen has said "retired." I'm rather sure, even with as stupid as the press is, they'd know the difference between someone who was discharged and someone who retired. Plus, I find it hard to believe that someone'd make Chief in 14 years. I know that it's possible to do so in 12 if you hit every single bullet point on the way up, right on time. Being he was a SEAL, I wouldn't doubt he could do it too. But unless something is vastly different in the Navy from the Air Force that step that comes from E-6 to E-7 also gets you a 3 year extension on your contract. It could be that he was discharged early, but I'd wonder why if that were the case. In the end, regardless of any other detail or fact, I stand by my comment that Chief Bissonnette should have kept his damn mouth shut.
 
2012-09-05 04:40:29 PM  

archichris: ...persecuting him mostly because he disagreed with the President and made Obama look bad....



Explain please. I'm really curious. With facts other than "ZOMG he actually waited!!"

Sure, Obamas Top advisers didn't want to PO Pakistan (which seems pretty rational considering the international stink this would have created). I mean after all...why have another Jimmy Carter accident? And on a side note...its not like we actually should have BEEN in Pakistan in the first place--que a major international incident.

Personally, I prefer someone who actually listens to advise, rather than some "lets git er" yahoo---but what do I know?

Oh and by the way. It worked (early or not)

/we get it...he's blah
 
2012-09-05 04:44:10 PM  
Bissonnette would do best to prepare for his eventual loss in court because there's precedence the government can fall back on.
 
2012-09-05 04:44:48 PM  
Link

Is greatly amused. And advises the nubi to not drop the soap.
 
2012-09-05 04:44:52 PM  

Science_Guy_3.14159: The only way I can see him getting out of this is if he gets HUGE public support, the DoD doesn't want to look like the bad guy to a bunch of people. I don't see that happening though.


On the other hand, the DOD could decide to make an example of him. You know, to prevent other military people from doing the same.

My vote would be make and example out of him.
 
2012-09-05 04:45:06 PM  
I said it in the last thread and I'll say it here, having read the book, I just don't get what all the fuss is about. There didn't seem to be anything particularly revealing in it. The accounts on training and the day to day stuff were cool but not much different than what you read in any military fiction book (Tom Clancy, etc.)

So I learned guys with night vision googles use IR chem lights. I doubt thats a state secret, I just never thought about it.

I suppose the Navy might not like some of the stories about SEALs giving each other the finger and sticking a black dildo in a barrel of animal crackers (you have to read it) but its not like these details are compromising.

Should he have submitted it? Probably but I doubt there's much there the powers that be would really have redacted. But boy it's great publicity isn't it?
 
2012-09-05 04:46:29 PM  
Dammit!



Is greatly amused. And advises the nubi to not drop the soap.
 
2012-09-05 04:47:06 PM  

netizencain: Of course he'd be a hero to everyone if it was released to Wikileaks.


Releasing it to Wikileaks would not be for profit and would mean he did it because he thought the story had to be told.

What we have in THIS case is a jerk who decided his word and his signature mean nothing if he can profit by violating agreements he has entered in to. I hope the DOD locks him up and throws away the key, or at least sues him until it is a net lo$$.
 
2012-09-05 04:47:06 PM  
Oh FFS! nevermind.
 
2012-09-05 04:50:20 PM  

trackstr777: The only semi-shady thing mentioned in the book was that some CIA planners wanted them to bring a "sixty pound box that blocked cell phone signals"; while I don't think our government officially claims to have this tech, it's pretty much been believed for a while.


A sixty pound box?? They should invest in some Taiwanese technology.
 
2012-09-05 04:51:55 PM  
You have to admire the sheer hypocrisy of the liberals in this matter. Bradley Manning is a hero to them but the SEAL is a traitor. They are just pissed because they actually thought Obama would get a free pass to say he was responsible for taking out OBL.
 
2012-09-05 04:59:09 PM  

radiobiz: I said it in the last thread and I'll say it here, having read the book, I just don't get what all the fuss is about. There didn't seem to be anything particularly revealing in it. The accounts on training and the day to day stuff were cool but not much different than what you read in any military fiction book (Tom Clancy, etc.)

So I learned guys with night vision googles use IR chem lights. I doubt thats a state secret, I just never thought about it.

I suppose the Navy might not like some of the stories about SEALs giving each other the finger and sticking a black dildo in a barrel of animal crackers (you have to read it) but its not like these details are compromising.

Should he have submitted it? Probably but I doubt there's much there the powers that be would really have redacted. But boy it's great publicity isn't it?


Here's the thing. He signed an agreement to vet the document whether or not it contained sensitive data. He's not the one who gets to make the call on what is sensitive. You would be surprised at some seemingly mundane stuff that the government decides is classified.
 
2012-09-05 05:00:51 PM  

Old_Chief_Scott: Is that a good thing or a bad thing?


It's never a bad thing when anybody gets your semi-obscure references.
 
2012-09-05 05:01:11 PM  

IvanTheSilent: Everything I've seen has said "retired." I'm rather sure, even with as stupid as the press is, they'd know the difference between someone who was discharged and someone who retired. Plus, I find it hard to believe that someone'd make Chief in 14 years. I know that it's possible to do so in 12 if you hit every single bullet point on the way up, right on time. Being he was a SEAL, I wouldn't doubt he could do it too. But unless something is vastly different in the Navy from the Air Force that step that comes from E-6 to E-7 also gets you a 3 year extension on your contract. It could be that he was discharged early, but I'd wonder why if that were the case. In the end, regardless of any other detail or fact, I stand by my comment that Chief Bissonnette should have kept his damn mouth shut.


I don't disagree that he stepped over the line with the book, but it doesn't surprise me.

Scuttlebutt is that he got screwed when he started talking about plans for leaving the Navy and his plans for opening a business after he got out.

I'd be pissed too, if I was treated like a pariah just because I decided it was time to start thinking about a life after the Navy.

But anyway....Yeah, the media's got it completely wrong with this "retired" thing which isn't unusual. There's a few places that get it right like these:

Virginian-Pilot

UPI

And a few others.
 
2012-09-05 05:04:35 PM  

Karma313th: IvanTheSilent: Everything I've seen has said "retired." I'm rather sure, even with as stupid as the press is, they'd know the difference between someone who was discharged and someone who retired. Plus, I find it hard to believe that someone'd make Chief in 14 years. I know that it's possible to do so in 12 if you hit every single bullet point on the way up, right on time. Being he was a SEAL, I wouldn't doubt he could do it too. But unless something is vastly different in the Navy from the Air Force that step that comes from E-6 to E-7 also gets you a 3 year extension on your contract. It could be that he was discharged early, but I'd wonder why if that were the case. In the end, regardless of any other detail or fact, I stand by my comment that Chief Bissonnette should have kept his damn mouth shut.

I don't disagree that he stepped over the line with the book, but it doesn't surprise me.

Scuttlebutt is that he got screwed when he started talking about plans for leaving the Navy and his plans for opening a business after he got out.

I'd be pissed too, if I was treated like a pariah just because I decided it was time to start thinking about a life after the Navy.

But anyway....Yeah, the media's got it completely wrong with this "retired" thing which isn't unusual. There's a few places that get it right like these:

Virginian-Pilot

UPI

And a few others.


Right on, and thank for the cites. I hadn't read those.
 
2012-09-05 05:05:31 PM  

Karma313th: Violating the NDA can subject you to severe problems on the criminal and civil front, to be sure. However, once you're "out" out, the UCMJ ain't one of them.


I'm calling BS. They repealed DADT.
 
2012-09-05 05:07:29 PM  

robbrie: Yes! It's only a single two-page form, but it's REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT! As soon as you're issued your initial clearance (regardless of access level), you're required to sign a non-disclosure agreement. No form means no clearance. Form is only two pages long, but it follows you everywhere. It stays on file with your facility security office for SIXTY YEARS from the date you signed and dated it.

The form isn't particularly exotic. In fact you can find it online right here and lots of other places. US Gov't SF-312 non-disclosure agreement pdf


Bears repeating. Classified information is only provided on a need-to-know basis, and it's unlikely that any of the SEALs involved in the raid knew how the Pentagon figured out Bin Laden's location. However, if he made any attempt to "talk around" the classified information that he did receive as part of the mission, he may have inadvertently provided just enough information, for example, that a group of terrorists might figure out that there's an informant among their ranks. Which could put the lives of DoD personnel and/or their allies at risk.

If any U.S. citizens die as a result of this book being published, he could even be charged with treason and face the death penalty.
 
2012-09-05 05:08:32 PM  

lordaction: You have to admire the sheer hypocrisy of the liberals in this matter. Bradley Manning is a hero to them but the SEAL is a traitor. They are just pissed because they actually thought Obama would get a free pass to say he was responsible for taking out OBL.


I'm a liberal and I never considered Manning to be a hero. He's at Leavenworth, right where he belongs.

As far as the SEAL goes, if should have known better and if he in fact did release classified information in his book, he should take responsiblity for the consequences.
 
2012-09-05 05:09:31 PM  
The timing of the release of this book is interesting.

Conveniently reminds us that Obama is the img1.fark.net that got Osama.

(Even though he didn't do that - somebody ELSE did that!)

One wonders whether the Pentagon squealing might feigned, calculated - effectively drawing more attention to the topic at this conveniently Conventional time.
 
2012-09-05 05:12:17 PM  
b>Karma313th:

You realize that "Mark Owen" is a civilian now, right?

Anything they tried to do legally would go through the federal court system, so he wouldn't have a "military jury."

He spent more than the requisite 8 years in, so it's not like he's on IRR and can be recalled and he didn't have the 20 in to formally retire, so...Safe from being called back there, too.

In short, he's no more answerable to the UCMJ or a military court than the next random guy on the street is.


Know how I know you've never been in the military and probably are talking out your ass?
 
2012-09-05 05:16:27 PM  

trackstr777: I read the book last night. His foreword makes it clear that pretty much any missions or details he discussed, are either already widely reported in the news, or are public knowledge. He changed names, except for high ranking officials (Admiral McRaven, etc.) who are already well known. I'm not in the Pentagon but I didn't have anything scream out at me that it was still confidential knowledge.

As far as technology, he referred to the bin Laden choppers as Blackhawks, and went into no detail about the suspected stealth technology on board. The only semi-shady thing mentioned in the book was that some CIA planners wanted them to bring a "sixty pound box that blocked cell phone signals"; while I don't think our government officially claims to have this tech, it's pretty much been believed for a while. Based on my general knowledge, and what I read ... I think he's going to be alright.


I noticed that he did discuss tactics - he mentioned the infrared chemlights that are thrown down to show an area has been cleared.

That could definitely be used to kill a few SEALs.
 
2012-09-05 05:19:51 PM  

Weaver95: As I recall, the Pentagon takes this sort of thing very seriously. you sign a stack of paperwork when you get your clearance...and one of the things you sign lays it out in great detail: if you write a book or an article for newspapers and the like...you clear it first. if you don't clear it with the Powers That Be, then you risk jail time.


This is a patriot of America talking truth to the Communist in Chief! What do these people at the Pentagon know about being American?
 
2012-09-05 05:20:38 PM  

Weaver95: As I recall, the Pentagon takes this sort of thing very seriously. you sign a stack of paperwork when you get your clearance...and one of the things you sign lays it out in great detail: if you write a book or an article for newspapers and the like...you clear it first. if you don't clear it with the Powers That Be, then you risk jail time.


Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech.

As long as he does not print classified material he's free to do as he pleases.
 
2012-09-05 05:20:50 PM  

sex0r: Haha. Obama all butthurt.


This is why I had your posts showing up in Derptard Red.

Now, we'll both be happier with you on my ignore list.

Well...I'LL be happier.

And that's what's important here.
 
2012-09-05 05:21:49 PM  

that was my nickname in highschool: Brilliant marketing move, not submitting it for review. That decision is leading to more publicity than the book itself.


If the Pentagon wins the case, he won't see a single cent of profit and will probably be out quite a lot of money for lawyers and such. So...no. No very smart.
 
2012-09-05 05:22:28 PM  

kevinfra: lordaction: You have to admire the sheer hypocrisy of the liberals in this matter. Bradley Manning is a hero to them but the SEAL is a traitor. They are just pissed because they actually thought Obama would get a free pass to say he was responsible for taking out OBL.

I'm a liberal and I never considered Manning to be a hero. He's at Leavenworth, right where he belongs.

As far as the SEAL goes, if should have known better and if he in fact did release classified information in his book, he should take responsiblity for the consequences.


I agree with you on both counts.
 
2012-09-05 05:23:50 PM  

Warlordtrooper:

As long as he does not print classified material he's free to do as he pleases.


No, he isn't. You don't have the same rights as a member of the military you have as a civilian, and he signed away even more to get his classified status. He's farked, and you don't understand how the military works.
 
2012-09-05 05:25:48 PM  

vartian: Warlordtrooper:

As long as he does not print classified material he's free to do as he pleases.

No, he isn't. You don't have the same rights as a member of the military you have as a civilian, and he signed away even more to get his classified status. He's farked, and you don't understand how the military works.


I'm under the impression that he is out of the military and has moved on to civilian life. If he's still In the military then yes but once he becomes a civilian again the government cannot supress his freedoms.
 
2012-09-05 05:26:40 PM  

Amos Quito: Conveniently reminds us that Obama is the that got Osama.

(Even though he didn't do that - somebody ELSE did that!)


Usually when someone posts something like this someone responds with something like "If the raid ended with bin laden chopping off a navy seal's head on al jazeera I'm sure you'd all be so quick to blame the navy seals for screwing up the raid" then the person who made the initial post usually runs away or ignores it and moves on to the next troll... just an fyi
 
2012-09-05 05:41:01 PM  

lucksi: Weaver95: As I recall, the Pentagon takes this sort of thing very seriously. you sign a stack of paperwork when you get your clearance...and one of the things you sign lays it out in great detail: if you write a book or an article for newspapers and the like...you clear it first. if you don't clear it with the Powers That Be, then you risk jail time.

Nobody reads those, just sign on the dotted line or click "I accept"


When I was presented with mine to sign, ti came with a nice long lecture.

We were all herded into an auditorium. A full-bird Colonel came out and addressed us, talked for about 5 minutes about what kind of responsibility it meant to hold a security clearance, and the kind of public trust that meant. He then switched to telling just what kind of consequences they could bring on you if you broke that trust.

We were then presented with our SF-312 Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement, and told to read it. In case anybody decided not to read it, somebody read the most relevant parts to us aloud over the PA system. Basically you agree that the government can and will bone you hard if you blab secrets.

Want to read a blank copy of that NDA? Here is is: Link

This was all about a month before the whole Bradley Manning thing broke too. I'd imagine they use him as an example in modern versions of this same lecture.
 
2012-09-05 05:43:43 PM  

Warlordtrooper: vartian: Warlordtrooper:

As long as he does not print classified material he's free to do as he pleases.

No, he isn't. You don't have the same rights as a member of the military you have as a civilian, and he signed away even more to get his classified status. He's farked, and you don't understand how the military works.

I'm under the impression that he is out of the military and has moved on to civilian life. If he's still In the military then yes but once he becomes a civilian again the government cannot supress his freedoms.


He signed an agreement when he left the service that he had to let the gov't review anything he was planning on having published -before- it was published. If you go upthread there's a couple posts with links to the document he had to sign.
 
2012-09-05 05:44:44 PM  

Carth: Science_Guy_3.14159: The only way I can see him getting out of this is if he gets HUGE public support, the DoD doesn't want to look like the bad guy to a bunch of people. I don't see that happening though.

Yup and he politicized his book just enough that charging him will rally republicans around him claiming persecution.


[Publisher's assistant] "But if we release the book before the Pentagon gives us clearance won't that put the author in legal jeopardy?"

[Publisher] "Who cares? Having the Pentagon make a big deal about the book will make it fly off the shelves, and the political shiatstorm should be enough to cover the author's butt. Even if he does hang for divulging state secrets he's a greedy sell-out so, I say again, who cares?"

[Publisher's assistant] "I love you."

[Publisher] "I know."
 
2012-09-05 05:50:05 PM  
Has anyone mentioned that in his contract he signed, and reaffirmed upon discharge with another form that any proceeds from this book are by right the government's? He signed a contract explicitly stating he had to go through the official channels or he can have all money he makes from this book taken by the gov't. So forget the trials, civilian or military court. They just snatch the money in civil court, and guess which party can afford big time lawyers? My guess is a quiet settlement and he goes away with only his pension, with an agreement to avoid any legal penalties or getting busted down to E-1.
 
2012-09-05 05:53:08 PM  

Warlordtrooper: vartian: Warlordtrooper:

As long as he does not print classified material he's free to do as he pleases.

No, he isn't. You don't have the same rights as a member of the military you have as a civilian, and he signed away even more to get his classified status. He's farked, and you don't understand how the military works.

I'm under the impression that he is out of the military and has moved on to civilian life. If he's still In the military then yes but once he becomes a civilian again the government cannot supress his freedoms.


You REALLY don't understand how the military works. That SF-312 (or SF-189 or SF-189-A, depending on when he got his clearance) follows you for life.
Further, they can reactivate him at any time since he has specialized training. Also, IIRC, E7s are also subject to that reactivation.
So, yeah, he's boned.
 
2012-09-05 05:57:25 PM  

Weaver95: As I recall, the Pentagon takes this sort of thing very seriously. you sign a stack of paperwork when you get your clearance...and one of the things you sign lays it out in great detail: if you write a book or an article for newspapers and the like...you clear it first. if you don't clear it with the Powers That Be, then you risk jail time.


Sue the author; charge him with disclosure of classified information already.

I have no sympathy for a veteran who had access to classified information writing about such for personal gain, be it financial and/or political purposes.

Doing it to inform the American public of deliberate unethical, illegal, and/or disinformation by our government (i.e. the Pentagon Papers) is a higher road, but one must be prepared to pay the piper for doing it still too.

However, the exact details of how Osama bin Laden died during the raid falls into the former category, rather than the latter, IMHO. Basically, the author was trying to Swift Boat Vet the President.
 
2012-09-05 05:59:40 PM  
That is some lot of advertising for a book under any circumstances.

A Tip 'O the Hat to publicist.
 
2012-09-05 06:01:54 PM  
I guess for one SEAL, it's no easy PAY day.
 
2012-09-05 06:05:33 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: trackstr777: I read the book last night. His foreword makes it clear that pretty much any missions or details he discussed, are either already widely reported in the news, or are public knowledge. He changed names, except for high ranking officials (Admiral McRaven, etc.) who are already well known. I'm not in the Pentagon but I didn't have anything scream out at me that it was still confidential knowledge.

As far as technology, he referred to the bin Laden choppers as Blackhawks, and went into no detail about the suspected stealth technology on board. The only semi-shady thing mentioned in the book was that some CIA planners wanted them to bring a "sixty pound box that blocked cell phone signals"; while I don't think our government officially claims to have this tech, it's pretty much been believed for a while. Based on my general knowledge, and what I read ... I think he's going to be alright.

I noticed that he did discuss tactics - he mentioned the infrared chemlights that are thrown down to show an area has been cleared.

That could definitely be used to kill a few SEALs.


That reminds me: I had to apply for a security clearance a while ago, and they made me watch a video about the importance of protecting information. The video described an incident that apparently really happened in which some foreign enemy was able to kill a bunch of U.S. soldiers because they knew about a flaw in some piece of COTS hardware that the troops relied on. An engineer who worked for a defense contractor got into a discussion about that piece of hardware with a foreign agent (of course, he didn't know he was talking to a foreign agent) and revealed that, yes, the military was using it.

Moral of the story: no matter how mundane a bit of information about military technology and methods might seem to be, a clever bad guy may still find a way to kill people with it.
 
2012-09-05 06:15:33 PM  

AirForceVet: Doing it to inform the American public of deliberate unethical, illegal, and/or disinformation by our government (i.e. the Pentagon Papers) is a higher road, but one must be prepared to pay the piper for doing it still too.


Funny thing is, if you actually read that SF-312, there is a catch in there, and in Federal Law, about whistleblowing to Congress.

The Pentagon Papers hit it big when they were delivered to Senator Mike Gravel, who read them into the record, which thus had protection under the Speech and Debate Clause of the Constitution.

If you have a classified document, or witness classified activities that are a violation of law or regulation, you do have the legal right under Title 10, U.S.C Section 1034 and DoD Directive 7050.06 to notify not just your Chain of Command, but an appropriate Inspector General's office, or even a Congressman if you feel it necessary. They even briefly mention this little escape clause in the SF-312, a reason to read it.

That's yet another reason I feel zero sympathy for PFC Manning. The white knights for him on the internet who say that he was exposing things don't quite realize he could have gone to a sympathetic Congressman (I'd bet Senator Bernie Sanders would be pretty willing to listen to a whistleblower, for example) and it be completely legal to shortcut the entire Chain of Command that way.

His CoC would have hated his guts, but legally they couldn't touch him. He'd probably be called to testify before Congress, and wouldn't have ended up Court Martialed, but his military career would probably dead end. Instead he thought it was the right thing to do was to give bulk data to a foreign national to dump on the open internet.
 
2012-09-05 06:33:02 PM  

Aigoo: b>Karma313th:

You realize that "Mark Owen" is a civilian now, right?

Anything they tried to do legally would go through the federal court system, so he wouldn't have a "military jury."

He spent more than the requisite 8 years in, so it's not like he's on IRR and can be recalled and he didn't have the 20 in to formally retire, so...Safe from being called back there, too.

In short, he's no more answerable to the UCMJ or a military court than the next random guy on the street is.

Know how I know you've never been in the military and probably are talking out your ass?


Might wanna adjust fire there, bud. 9 years active, was planning on making it a career if I hadn't farked up my back.
 
2012-09-05 06:35:54 PM  

Silverstaff: lucksi: Weaver95: As I recall, the Pentagon takes this sort of thing very seriously. you sign a stack of paperwork when you get your clearance...and one of the things you sign lays it out in great detail: if you write a book or an article for newspapers and the like...you clear it first. if you don't clear it with the Powers That Be, then you risk jail time.

Nobody reads those, just sign on the dotted line or click "I accept"

When I was presented with mine to sign, ti came with a nice long lecture.

We were all herded into an auditorium. A full-bird Colonel came out and addressed us, talked for about 5 minutes about what kind of responsibility it meant to hold a security clearance, and the kind of public trust that meant. He then switched to telling just what kind of consequences they could bring on you if you broke that trust.

We were then presented with our SF-312 Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement, and told to read it. In case anybody decided not to read it, somebody read the most relevant parts to us aloud over the PA system. Basically you agree that the government can and will bone you hard if you blab secrets.

Want to read a blank copy of that NDA? Here is is: Link

This was all about a month before the whole Bradley Manning thing broke too. I'd imagine they use him as an example in modern versions of this same lecture.



Weird. I was given mine in a small room with a closed door.and allowed to take all the time I wanted as long as it was one hour or less.
 
2012-09-05 06:41:08 PM  
i'm sure he will probably fall down some stairs and die of natural causes
 
2012-09-05 06:44:20 PM  

dr_blasto: Karma313th: Violating the NDA can subject you to severe problems on the criminal and civil front, to be sure. However, once you're "out" out, the UCMJ ain't one of them.

I'm calling BS. They repealed DADT.


I wondered how long it would take someone to run with that joke.
 
2012-09-05 06:52:45 PM  

dr_blasto: Brick-House: And will the DOJ go after the WH for the information they disclosed for the movie Zero Dark Thirty?

As this is a work of fiction with no proof of any classified information supplied to facilitate its production, what would the DOJ do, exactly?


Work of fiction with no proof of any classifide information supplied, hmmmm...

From the Chicago Tribune:

"According to the records, the Obama administration granted Boal and Bigelow unusual access to agency information in preparation for their film, which was reportedly scheduled for an October, 2012 release, just before the presidential election," the site wrote, noting that "Zero Dark Thirty" will now premiere in December, after the election.
 

I guess its too bad for obummer that potential profits from the holiday movie season won out over trying to get him reelected.
 
2012-09-05 06:58:12 PM  

SpectroBoy: radiobiz: I said it in the last thread and I'll say it here, having read the book, I just don't get what all the fuss is about. There didn't seem to be anything particularly revealing in it. The accounts on training and the day to day stuff were cool but not much different than what you read in any military fiction book (Tom Clancy, etc.)

So I learned guys with night vision googles use IR chem lights. I doubt thats a state secret, I just never thought about it.

I suppose the Navy might not like some of the stories about SEALs giving each other the finger and sticking a black dildo in a barrel of animal crackers (you have to read it) but its not like these details are compromising.

Should he have submitted it? Probably but I doubt there's much there the powers that be would really have redacted. But boy it's great publicity isn't it?

Here's the thing. He signed an agreement to vet the document whether or not it contained sensitive data. He's not the one who gets to make the call on what is sensitive. You would be surprised at some seemingly mundane stuff that the government decides is classified.


I don't disagree with that after thinking about it. I'll "walk-back" my statement. He should have submitted it. And he should be appropriately punished for not doing so but I do think that punishment should take into account what if any classified information was actually leaked by his book and meted out accordingly. Yeah, there's got to be a line in the sand and it appears he crossed it by not submitting for review. So I think you have to punish him to set the expectation for others but if you take it too far you risk a massive pr disaster with the American public.

After reading the book my view is colored I suppose. I like the guy based on his autobiography. He does a good job painting a portrait of himself and his teammates and I respect the hell out of them for what they do.

/I blame any typos on auto correct.
/Mr. Clark wouldn't put up with this autocorrect BS.
 
2012-09-05 07:02:28 PM  
Something I am curious about, if this goes to civilian court is the only thing the military needs to do is say that is classified, maybe have a few high ranking officials say that in court? Civilians can't just see classified info so they can't be asked to show the original documents because that would potentially reveal even more classified info. I don't think any judge, even SCOTUS, has the right to declassify something; I think they can release it to the public but they can't declassify it.
 
2012-09-05 07:06:22 PM  

Joe Blowme: FTA:"The Justice Department would have moved in and shut down the publication of the book," the authors note, adding that the Pentagon's general counselor has "yet to point out specific disclosures."

Does anyone actually think if the Pentagon thought there was actionable secrets reveald this book would have seen the printing press?
Move along, nothing to see here



3.bp.blogspot.com

Oh please, dear. For your information, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint.
 
2012-09-05 07:26:08 PM  

trackstr777: I read the book last night. His foreword makes it clear that pretty much any missions or details he discussed, are either already widely reported in the news, or are public knowledge. He changed names, except for high ranking officials (Admiral McRaven, etc.) who are already well known. I'm not in the Pentagon but I didn't have anything scream out at me that it was still confidential knowledge.

As far as technology, he referred to the bin Laden choppers as Blackhawks, and went into no detail about the suspected stealth technology on board. The only semi-shady thing mentioned in the book was that some CIA planners wanted them to bring a "sixty pound box that blocked cell phone signals"; while I don't think our government officially claims to have this tech, it's pretty much been believed for a while. Based on my general knowledge, and what I read ... I think he's going to be alright.


Something being "public knowledge" doesn't mean it isn't secret. A lot of people can infer or guess, and experts who don't actually know put stuff out that becomes "public knowledge" him commenting on it can confirm it.

Bottom line is that when he was given secret clearance he knew he wasn't the arbiter of what was secret. Even if he is right, and nothing he talked about wasn't public knowledge (and you only have his word on that) it is still a bad precedent to let some guy go and make that call.

I hope the govt takes every dime he earns, at the very least.
 
2012-09-05 07:30:00 PM  

Karma313th: Scuttlebutt is that he got screwed when he started talking about plans for leaving the Navy and his plans for opening a business after he got out.


Out of curiosity, where did you hear that?
 
2012-09-05 07:31:16 PM  
Support the troop or support the troops.... Republicans must be in one dill of a pickle!
 
2012-09-05 07:35:23 PM  

Brick-House: dr_blasto: Brick-House: And will the DOJ go after the WH for the information they disclosed for the movie Zero Dark Thirty?

As this is a work of fiction with no proof of any classified information supplied to facilitate its production, what would the DOJ do, exactly?

Work of fiction with no proof of any classifide information supplied, hmmmm...

From the Chicago Tribune:

"According to the records, the Obama administration granted Boal and Bigelow unusual access to agency information in preparation for their film, which was reportedly scheduled for an October, 2012 release, just before the presidential election," the site wrote, noting that "Zero Dark Thirty" will now premiere in December, after the election.
 

I guess its too bad for obummer that potential profits from the holiday movie season won out over trying to get him reelected.


My statement stands, dork. Unusual and classified are not synonyms.

Grasp harder, you're sure to get your straw.
 
2012-09-05 07:38:27 PM  

liam76: Karma313th: Scuttlebutt is that he got screwed when he started talking about plans for leaving the Navy and his plans for opening a business after he got out.

Out of curiosity, where did you hear that?


I read it here.
 
2012-09-05 07:39:15 PM  

Karma313th: dr_blasto: Karma313th: Violating the NDA can subject you to severe problems on the criminal and civil front, to be sure. However, once you're "out" out, the UCMJ ain't one of them.

I'm calling BS. They repealed DADT.

I wondered how long it would take someone to run with that joke.


It had to be done.
 
2012-09-05 07:39:41 PM  

dr_blasto: Brick-House: dr_blasto: Brick-House: And will the DOJ go after the WH for the information they disclosed for the movie Zero Dark Thirty?

As this is a work of fiction with no proof of any classified information supplied to facilitate its production, what would the DOJ do, exactly?

Work of fiction with no proof of any classifide information supplied, hmmmm...

From the Chicago Tribune:

"According to the records, the Obama administration granted Boal and Bigelow unusual access to agency information in preparation for their film, which was reportedly scheduled for an October, 2012 release, just before the presidential election," the site wrote, noting that "Zero Dark Thirty" will now premiere in December, after the election.
 

I guess its too bad for obummer that potential profits from the holiday movie season won out over trying to get him reelected.

My statement stands, dork. Unusual and classified are not synonyms.

Grasp harder, you're sure to get your straw.


Yeah, tell it to this guy...

www.toptj.com

A Pakistani doctor who helped the Central Intelligence Agency pin down Osama bin Laden's location under the cover of a vaccination drive was convicted on Wednesday of treason and sentenced to 33 years in prison, a senior official in Pakistan said.
 
2012-09-05 07:42:34 PM  

liam76: Karma313th: Scuttlebutt is that he got screwed when he started talking about plans for leaving the Navy and his plans for opening a business after he got out.

Out of curiosity, where did you hear that?


I heard it on the boards over at military.com.

Apparently there's another former SEAL, guy named Brandon Webb, that did some digging and put it out on his site or something like that before the book was released.

Supposedly, he'd talked to some team guys he knows and they said when the guy started talking leaving, they pushed him out, took away "red squadron" from him and more or less started up with the PNG treatment then.
 
2012-09-05 07:43:28 PM  
Just staring reading this book tonight... don't tell me how it ends!
 
2012-09-05 07:50:06 PM  

Warlordtrooper: Weaver95: As I recall, the Pentagon takes this sort of thing very seriously. you sign a stack of paperwork when you get your clearance...and one of the things you sign lays it out in great detail: if you write a book or an article for newspapers and the like...you clear it first. if you don't clear it with the Powers That Be, then you risk jail time.

Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech.

As long as he does not print classified material he's free to do as he pleases.


um...no. see, when you get a security clearance you sign a non-disclosure agreement. and lemme tell ya - its pretty damn comprehensive. This guy could be in serious trouble. if the Pentagon decides he violated his NDA, he's f*cked. game over, say hello to your cellmate for the next 20 years.
 
2012-09-05 07:50:19 PM  

AngryJailhouseFistfark: No, but see, because The Obama isn't legally the President, being foreign muslin, and What Not, all that lawful order business goes out the window and it's Easy Day's patriotic duty, his Constitutional mandate, and What Not, to defend Homeland against this domestic enemy. Whatever else is going on with the DoD is immaterial because the #1 priority is to defend Homeland and anyone who opposes this book, or supports the position of the Pretender to the Presidency, is likewise an enemy of Truth and the Troops, to be neither respected nor obeyed.

Such is this brave man's task.


Is this Chuck Norris?
 
2012-09-05 07:50:39 PM  

lifeboat: Just staring reading this book tonight... don't tell me how it ends!


The American puppet Saudi guy dies at the end.
 
2012-09-05 08:09:27 PM  

Science_Guy_3.14159: The only way I can see him getting out of this is if he gets HUGE public support, the DoD doesn't want to look like the bad guy to a bunch of people. I don't see that happening though.


WorldNutDaily warehouses are going to be filled with 'em.
 
2012-09-05 08:12:00 PM  

radiobiz: liam76: Karma313th: Scuttlebutt is that he got screwed when he started talking about plans for leaving the Navy and his plans for opening a business after he got out.

Out of curiosity, where did you hear that?

I read it here.


Karma313th: liam76: Karma313th: Scuttlebutt is that he got screwed when he started talking about plans for leaving the Navy and his plans for opening a business after he got out.

Out of curiosity, where did you hear that?

I heard it on the boards over at military.com.

Apparently there's another former SEAL, guy named Brandon Webb, that did some digging and put it out on his site or something like that before the book was released.

Supposedly, he'd talked to some team guys he knows and they said when the guy started talking leaving, they pushed him out, took away "red squadron" from him and more or less started up with the PNG treatment then.


Danka.

I am curious if that is SOP. If it wasn't SOP to do that when people started talking about leaving I would have to guess there is more to it. If it is SOP, he shouldn't be getting butt hurt. But I doubt we are going to get a straight story we can trust.
 
2012-09-05 08:28:14 PM  
Know what would be a classy move? A proactive Obama Pardon.

Never gonna happen, but it would be classy.
 
2012-09-05 08:42:26 PM  

Brick-House: dr_blasto: Brick-House: dr_blasto: Brick-House: And will the DOJ go after the WH for the information they disclosed for the movie Zero Dark Thirty?

As this is a work of fiction with no proof of any classified information supplied to facilitate its production, what would the DOJ do, exactly?

Work of fiction with no proof of any classifide information supplied, hmmmm...

From the Chicago Tribune:

"According to the records, the Obama administration granted Boal and Bigelow unusual access to agency information in preparation for their film, which was reportedly scheduled for an October, 2012 release, just before the presidential election," the site wrote, noting that "Zero Dark Thirty" will now premiere in December, after the election.
 

I guess its too bad for obummer that potential profits from the holiday movie season won out over trying to get him reelected.

My statement stands, dork. Unusual and classified are not synonyms.

Grasp harder, you're sure to get your straw.

Yeah, tell it to this guy...

[www.toptj.com image 317x228]

A Pakistani doctor who helped the Central Intelligence Agency pin down Osama bin Laden's location under the cover of a vaccination drive was convicted on Wednesday of treason and sentenced to 33 years in prison, a senior official in Pakistan said.


What in the holy fark of all farks does that have to do with this?
 
2012-09-05 08:47:29 PM  

Brick-House: A Pakistani doctor who.

?

No, I've not seen that. Must be one of the regenerations I'd missed
 
2012-09-05 09:03:53 PM  

Karma313th: what_now: Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial

A military jury? Comprised of people who signed the exact same agreements that he did? Comprised of people who's life he risks by spilling secrets?

yeah, I can see them convicting him.


You realize that "Mark Owen" is a civilian now, right?

Anything they tried to do legally would go through the federal court system, so he wouldn't have a "military jury."

He spent more than the requisite 8 years in, so it's not like he's on IRR and can be recalled and he didn't have the 20 in to formally retire, so...Safe from being called back there, too.

In short, he's no more answerable to the UCMJ or a military court than the next random guy on the street is.


No, he's still on the fleet reserve list. This means he can be recalled to active duty and tried in a court martial if they see fit, under the ucmj.
 
2012-09-05 09:12:47 PM  

archichris: Sure, but as long as you are cool with persecuting a SEAL for doing essentially the same thing that the White House did within hours of the raid. Also you should be cool with persecuting a man who is by all rights a national hero.,...persecuting him mostly because he disagreed with the President and made Obama look bad. The White House has been shown to have been shopping the story for a Movie, Leaked information which got one of our assets in Pakistan sent to a prison camp, and has been pushing the credit for the raid as close to the President as they can without photoshopping him into a picture of the SEALs shooting Bin Laden.

But as long as we are being all hard-ass and enforcing the law against a national hero for something he said in a book......

Lets apply the same Logic to old Barry.

In his memoir Obama admits to actions which constitute felony possession of a controlled substance with intent to distribute, distribution to minors, and a whole host of individual possession felonies. Sounds like by your logic we need to have Obama Arrested so he can be arraigned and charged so he can clear his good name by admitting that everything he ever wrote in his memoir was a fabrication.


There's a number on the bottle that tells you how many times you can refill the prescription. Just thought you should know.
 
2012-09-05 09:15:24 PM  

Karma313th: IvanTheSilent: Everything I've seen has said "retired." I'm rather sure, even with as stupid as the press is, they'd know the difference between someone who was discharged and someone who retired. Plus, I find it hard to believe that someone'd make Chief in 14 years. I know that it's possible to do so in 12 if you hit every single bullet point on the way up, right on time. Being he was a SEAL, I wouldn't doubt he could do it too. But unless something is vastly different in the Navy from the Air Force that step that comes from E-6 to E-7 also gets you a 3 year extension on your contract. It could be that he was discharged early, but I'd wonder why if that were the case. In the end, regardless of any other detail or fact, I stand by my comment that Chief Bissonnette should have kept his damn mouth shut.

I don't disagree that he stepped over the line with the book, but it doesn't surprise me.

Scuttlebutt is that he got screwed when he started talking about plans for leaving the Navy and his plans for opening a business after he got out.

I'd be pissed too, if I was treated like a pariah just because I decided it was time to start thinking about a life after the Navy.

But anyway....Yeah, the media's got it completely wrong with this "retired" thing which isn't unusual. There's a few places that get it right like these:

Virginian-Pilot

UPI

And a few others.


I retract my previous statement to you, sir.

Still, i'd like to see him face some punishment, even if it's a blanket party on every BUDs class reunion date for the rest of his life.
 
2012-09-05 09:36:10 PM  

dr_blasto: Brick-House: dr_blasto: Brick-House: dr_blasto: Brick-House: And will the DOJ go after the WH for the information they disclosed for the movie Zero Dark Thirty?

As this is a work of fiction with no proof of any classified information supplied to facilitate its production, what would the DOJ do, exactly?

Work of fiction with no proof of any classifide information supplied, hmmmm...

From the Chicago Tribune:

"According to the records, the Obama administration granted Boal and Bigelow unusual access to agency information in preparation for their film, which was reportedly scheduled for an October, 2012 release, just before the presidential election," the site wrote, noting that "Zero Dark Thirty" will now premiere in December, after the election.
 

I guess its too bad for obummer that potential profits from the holiday movie season won out over trying to get him reelected.

My statement stands, dork. Unusual and classified are not synonyms.

Grasp harder, you're sure to get your straw.

Yeah, tell it to this guy...

[www.toptj.com image 317x228]

A Pakistani doctor who helped the Central Intelligence Agency pin down Osama bin Laden's location under the cover of a vaccination drive was convicted on Wednesday of treason and sentenced to 33 years in prison, a senior official in Pakistan said.

What in the holy fark of all farks does that have to do with this?


For those of you to slow to follow along, one of the many leaks that have been coming out of the White House spoke of a Pakistani doctor who helped the Central Intelligence Agency pin down Osama bin Laden's location under the cover of a vaccination drive,

HE WAS WORKING FOR THE CIA AND THE WH OUTED HIM FOR POLITICAL GAIN!!!

Now hes doing time in a Pakistani prison for being a spy. But Obama got to take credit for killing OBL, so I guess that's all that matters.
 
2012-09-05 09:43:57 PM  

aug3: i'm sure he will probably fall down some stairs and die of natural causes


Ninjas. They're the only ones who can kill a Seal.
 
2012-09-05 09:50:37 PM  

MisterTweak: Weaver95: As I recall, the Pentagon takes this sort of thing very seriously. you sign a stack of paperwork when you get your clearance...and one of the things you sign lays it out in great detail: if you write a book or an article for newspapers and the like...you clear it first. if you don't clear it with the Powers That Be, then you risk jail time.

True 'nuff. There are any number of people who do heroic stuff for their country, and are expected to take it to their graves. If this book is what it purports to be, I think the author has done a disservice to himself and his peers.

/and may be in a world of legal hurt, too. Rightly so, I guess.


I'm definitely getting a Steven Seagal vibe off the guy who put this out. Not in the "makes utterly BS claims and pretends to be way more awesome than he really is" sense but in the "utterly self serving douchebag with no redeeming qualities" sense.
 
2012-09-05 09:51:40 PM  

Yellow Beard: The author would never see a trial. Can you imagine a jury convicting one of the SEALs that took out Osama? yea, neither can I.

not saying what he did was right, just saying I cannot imagine him getting convicted at a jury trial


Blind military fellatio isn't as common as you think.
 
2012-09-05 09:57:48 PM  
Apparently keeping secrets is of greater importance than free speech. Kinda hard to play the good guys if you're gonna do things underhandedly.
 
2012-09-05 10:01:24 PM  

Brick-House: dr_blasto: Brick-House: dr_blasto: Brick-House: dr_blasto: Brick-House: And will the DOJ go after the WH for the information they disclosed for the movie Zero Dark Thirty?

As this is a work of fiction with no proof of any classified information supplied to facilitate its production, what would the DOJ do, exactly?

Work of fiction with no proof of any classifide information supplied, hmmmm...

From the Chicago Tribune:

"According to the records, the Obama administration granted Boal and Bigelow unusual access to agency information in preparation for their film, which was reportedly scheduled for an October, 2012 release, just before the presidential election," the site wrote, noting that "Zero Dark Thirty" will now premiere in December, after the election.
 

I guess its too bad for obummer that potential profits from the holiday movie season won out over trying to get him reelected.

My statement stands, dork. Unusual and classified are not synonyms.

Grasp harder, you're sure to get your straw.

Yeah, tell it to this guy...

[www.toptj.com image 317x228]

A Pakistani doctor who helped the Central Intelligence Agency pin down Osama bin Laden's location under the cover of a vaccination drive was convicted on Wednesday of treason and sentenced to 33 years in prison, a senior official in Pakistan said.

What in the holy fark of all farks does that have to do with this?

For those of you to slow to follow along, one of the many leaks that have been coming out of the White House spoke of a Pakistani doctor who helped the Central Intelligence Agency pin down Osama bin Laden's location under the cover of a vaccination drive,

HE WAS WORKING FOR THE CIA AND THE WH OUTED HIM FOR POLITICAL GAIN!!!

Now hes doing time in a Pakistani prison for being a spy. But Obama got to take credit for killing OBL, so I guess that's all that matters.


Where in your article does it say this?

I found:
"In January, Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta confirmed that the United States had been working with Dr. Afridi while trying to verify the location of Bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad in the months before the raid."


Followed later in the article by:
"In a television interview in January, Mr. Panetta said, 'For them to take this kind of action against somebody who was helping to go after terrorism, I just think is a real mistake on their part.'"

Which would seem to indicate that he wasn't outed, till after he was jailed and Panetta, along with Clinton, were attempting to get him released or at least protected from more severe charges. He'd already been caught and was on trial.

They were attempting to apply pressure to let him go. They were attempting to protect the guy.
 
2012-09-05 10:21:07 PM  
They're not actually marine mammals?
 
2012-09-05 10:31:25 PM  

dr_blasto: Brick-House: dr_blasto: Brick-House: dr_blasto: Brick-House: dr_blasto: Brick-House: And will the DOJ go after the WH for the information they disclosed for the movie Zero Dark Thirty?

As this is a work of fiction with no proof of any classified information supplied to facilitate its production, what would the DOJ do, exactly?

Work of fiction with no proof of any classifide information supplied, hmmmm...

From the Chicago Tribune:

"According to the records, the Obama administration granted Boal and Bigelow unusual access to agency information in preparation for their film, which was reportedly scheduled for an October, 2012 release, just before the presidential election," the site wrote, noting that "Zero Dark Thirty" will now premiere in December, after the election.
 

I guess its too bad for obummer that potential profits from the holiday movie season won out over trying to get him reelected.

My statement stands, dork. Unusual and classified are not synonyms.

Grasp harder, you're sure to get your straw.

Yeah, tell it to this guy...

[www.toptj.com image 317x228]

A Pakistani doctor who helped the Central Intelligence Agency pin down Osama bin Laden's location under the cover of a vaccination drive was convicted on Wednesday of treason and sentenced to 33 years in prison, a senior official in Pakistan said.

What in the holy fark of all farks does that have to do with this?

For those of you to slow to follow along, one of the many leaks that have been coming out of the White House spoke of a Pakistani doctor who helped the Central Intelligence Agency pin down Osama bin Laden's location under the cover of a vaccination drive,

HE WAS WORKING FOR THE CIA AND THE WH OUTED HIM FOR POLITICAL GAIN!!!

Now hes doing time in a Pakistani prison for being a spy. But Obama got to take credit for killing OBL, so I guess that's all that matters.

Where in your article does it say this?

I found:
"In January, Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta confirmed that the United S ...


And how exactly did they figure out what Dr. Afridi did? White House leak about a fake vaccination program used to gather intel.
 
2012-09-05 10:49:11 PM  

Brick-House: And how exactly did they figure out what Dr. Afridi did? White House leak about a fake vaccination program used to gather intel.


Dude.

Can you provide any reliable information that this is true? Any reliable non-wingnut source.

No Breitbart.
No WND.
No Blaze
None of that crap. Legitimate reporting, not some retard on the opinion page. When you read, you'll find the Pakistanis nabbed everyone they could identify as having even glanced at that compound. Embarrassed as all shiat and mad as hell, they arrested a nurse. She worked for Afridi. Apparently, Afridi had been taking boxes of Hep B vaccines without authorizaiton. They released the nurse and arrested him.

That's the farking story. Doctors Without Borders is pissed at Obama for destroying credibility of world NGO and health organizations by using such a cynical approach. There's something to be mad at Obama about. Direct your rage in the right direction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakil_Afridi
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/22/specia l -operations-opsec-education-fund/group-blames-obama-linking-cia-pakist ani-doctor/
 
2012-09-05 10:57:47 PM  

vernonFL: [991.com image 450x475]

Barbra Streisand was pretty hot back in the day.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-09-05 11:04:06 PM  

Headso: Amos Quito: Conveniently reminds us that Obama is the that got Osama.

(Even though he didn't do that - somebody ELSE did that!)

Usually when someone posts something like this someone responds with something like "If the raid ended with bin laden chopping off a navy seal's head on al jazeera I'm sure you'd all be so quick to blame the navy seals for screwing up the raid" then the person who made the initial post usually runs away or ignores it and moves on to the next troll... just an fyi


The other important thing that might be mentioned is that it is true that Obama didn't pull the trigger and kill Bin Laden, it is also true that Bin Laden didn't fly any aircraft into any buildings on 9/11. Of course he was ultimately responsible for the people that did.
 
2012-09-05 11:27:51 PM  

nmemkha: vernonFL: [991.com image 450x475]

Barbra Streisand was pretty hot back in the day.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 300x300]


Why, yes,

i651.photobucket.com
Yes,

i651.photobucket.com

Yes, she was!
 
2012-09-05 11:35:13 PM  
Those days are sadly long since past.

img171.imageshack.us
 
2012-09-05 11:45:10 PM  

Brick-House: Those days are sadly long since past.

[img171.imageshack.us image 490x419]


Renew at carousel!
 
2012-09-06 03:15:16 AM  
I have supreme respect for the operators that risk their lives and well being in the defense of our interests. The Navy SEALs are the best trained, equipped and capable Special Operations force in the world (I am sure someone will debate that) but it comes down to the personal "intestinal fortitude" of those warriors to risk themselves time and time again - no gadget can replace the character of these guys.

Likewise, I am amazed at the folks who don't want to share the credit with the President. President Obama risked his entire Presidency, the relationship with an ally, the standing of the US on the international stage, and the responsibility for the team's lives on a gamble that: First, it was OBL; Second, it wouldn't turn into OPERATION EAGLE CLAW. If either had happened it would have been disastrous for the United States, and we'd be dissecting the failure for years to come. The failure would have been his Presidential legacy, and I am sure the losses would have weighed on him as a man. Give the President his due - he sacked up and made a very tough decision that resulted in killing the head of an organization dedicated to the destruction of our Union. Generals own the victories (and failures) that Privates make happen.

As for the author: Who knows? If there is sufficient evidence he broke the law, then take him to trail and let the courts weigh the outcome. Military or civilian all depends on jurisdiction that actual lawyer types will determine rather than our inartful guesswork. The speculation on the CPOs character is a little premature - he hasn't been charge or convicted; the entire event is under review. I'd hate for there to be no charges brought against him and for some of us to eat crow over the rush to judgment, though knowing the lack of personal responsibility around her that isn't likely. That said, if he is charged and convicted I hope it would serve as a strong deterrent for other folks who want to color outside the lines in the future, and I reinforces standing procedures.

I do agree that the release date of this book is highly suspect and obviously politically motivated, and reaffirms GEN Dempsey's position: "If someone uses the uniform, whatever uniform it is, for partisan politics, I'm disappointed by that, because I think it does erode that bond of trust that we have with the American people."
 
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