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(NewsBusters)   Democrats Key Note speaker makes up several Romney quotes that never were said. Of course this isn't worthy of the so called "fact checkers" time   (newsbusters.org) divider line 41
    More: Obvious, Julian Castro, sandwich shop  
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2448 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Sep 2012 at 5:35 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-09-05 02:06:28 PM
6 votes:
Romney uses words that Obama actually said, but completely out of context, therefore changing their implied meaning = fine.

Castro paraphrases Romney, but what Romney actually said retains its meaning = OUTRAGE
2012-09-05 02:46:28 PM
5 votes:
There's way too much wordiness in this thread.

Romney said it.

Castro repeated it.

The point was that Romney doesn't understand that some people just don't have that option because their families don't have a spare $20,000 lying around.

Castro was right.

Newsbusters is pancakes-on-head wee-todd-ed.
2012-09-05 01:59:44 PM
5 votes:
Yeah, I watched the video and I don't really see a problem with what Castro said.
Romney: "...borrow money, if you have to, from your parents." then he went on to tell about someone who borrowed $20,000 from his father.
Castro quoting Romney: the exact goddamn thing. And it wasn't taken out if context like the whole " you didn't build that" bs.
2012-09-05 06:27:03 PM
4 votes:
My wife and I both own our own businesses. She actually employes 5 people. We completely understood what Obama was saying. The roads near her business have just been completely redone. The taxes we pay would never have paid even a fraction of a fraction the cost of those new roads, and the increased business we are getting will reimburse us for all of our past taxes paid. And don't get me started on all the other government services we need to stay in business.

And, what is Obama asking us to pay? About 3-6% more on the business profits over $250,000. The only business owners butthurt by Obama's speech are willfully being obtuse. They were not going to vote for Obama anyway.
2012-09-05 02:02:49 PM
4 votes:

Given all the scrutiny presenters got for their addresses at last week's Republican National Convention, *sniffle* one has to wonder if the press will fact-check the following section of Castro's speech...

"A few months ago he visited a university in Ohio and gave the students there a little entrepreneurial advice. 'Start a business,' he said. But how? 'Borrow money if you have to from your parents,' he told them. Gee, why didn't I think of that? Some people are lucky enough to borrow money from their parents"
...
As you can see, in its full context, Romney was talking about encouraging young people to "take a shot" and "take a risk" and borrow money from parents "if you have to" to "start a business."

Such borrowing was intended as a last resort and not the business model Castro implied.


FFS. "Out of context" does not mean "words preceded or followed the quote" you damn ignoramus. I'm failing to see how the "full context" changes anything.
2012-09-05 06:11:09 PM
3 votes:
The point the Democrats were making is that nobody's parents have money to loan them, and nothing in Romney's quote that runs contrary to that point. My dad is a disabled stroke victim, and without universal health care, he lost everything when he couldn't work. He HAD a small business that he built with no government help, employing about 15 people and doing a lot of public good. As a private investigator, he worked 18-hour days and took cases the police didn't have time for, and worked them for free when women or children were at risk. Now, I'm struggling to start a small business in my field after I couldn't find a job in it after college. I've done OK parlaying my skills into other employment in the meantime. I've had to beg my dad not to feel ashamed of himself - not because he needs help getting around the house, but that he couldn't give me the money I need to get that business off the ground. That's the America we live in. You can work your butt off, help people, play by the rules, and still get screwed if anything bad happens. Too many Americans are on the ropes, and Romney's solution is, "borrow money from your rich parents." I'm glad for Mitt that his dad was well-off enough that he can do that. Should I have kids, I hope that I can do that for them, like my dad would have done for me if he had the means. But assuming everybody has a rich dad is not going to solve the real-world problems we face, and nothing Castro said in that regard was in any way inaccurate.
2012-09-05 02:42:23 PM
3 votes:
Not out of context. Perfectly in context. Romney told people they should borrow money from their parents if they have to, either for educational purposes or to start a business. And Castro's point was, not everyone has Daddy Warbucks as a father.

Here's what he said entirely in context:

Unimportant filler:
Even now I believe you're watching the president who has trying to deflect and divert. From his record by trying to find ways to, if you will, attack fellow Americans. Between rich and poor and other dimensions. This kind of divisiveness, this attack of success, is very different than what we've seen in our country's history.

What he said about getting an education:
We've always encouraged young people take it, take a shot, go for it. Take a risk, get the education, borrow money if you have to from your parents. Start a business.

That's exactly what he said. Borrow money from your family if you don't already have it (from your trust fund, I assume) either for business or education. Well you can borrow money if you're a student (which has kind of become a problem, look at the student loan bubble) but you definitely aren't going to get a small business loan unless you've already got collateral worth basically the amount of the loan. I don't know any 18 year olds with that kind of money.

Start a business. Well you need money to start a business, as he points out below. Here is his example, a guy who borrowed from his dad:
I was with a guy named Jimmy John. I've met Jimmy John. Jimmy John, hope I get the story entirely right, I think I will, he graduated from high school, and he didn't want to go to college. And he said to his Dad can I borrow some money I want to start a business. His dad said, "I just don't think you've got the discipline to start a business and make it work." And he said, "I'll loan you the money but if you can't pay it back with interest by the end of the year I want you to go into the military and sign up." And he said, "Okay I'll do that."

Good for JJ. I love his sandwiches. But he got money from his dad, even with the military stipulations in it. This is all love for JJ, he took a risk which paid off.

Then he points out how much money you really need to start most businesses:
And I think he said he borrowed 20,000 dollars from his dad, was going to start a restaurant. Then he found out how expensive it is to buy all the restaurant equipment and 20,000 dollars wouldn't cut it. The only thing that would work for 20,000 dollars was a sandwich shop.

Not only did the guy need a lot of money to start a business, as someone astutely pointed out, this was in 1983 and the loan was in fact $25K, not $20K. An internet inflation calculator says that 25,000 1983 dollars is something like 55,000 2012 dollars

Hey if you've got 55,000 lying around to give your kid on a business in which about 60% of businesses fail within five years - you're probably a wealthy kind of dad. Also he went to Elgin Academy which is a private prep school. Tuition 2011-2012 was about 18K a year for high school. Keep that in mind.
2012-09-05 02:17:35 PM
3 votes:

impaler: FFS. "Out of context" does not mean "words preceded or followed the quote" you damn ignoramus. I'm failing to see how the "full context" changes anything.


Republicans like to use the phrase "out of context" when they mean, "harmful to our candidate."
2012-09-05 02:12:56 PM
3 votes:
Castro accurately quoted Romney. Why the moral outrage??

It must be because Castro actually told THE TRUTH.
2012-09-05 01:57:58 PM
3 votes:
I don't think there is anything that Romney has not said at one time or another. Let's test this.

Newsbuster headline: Will Media Fact-Check Castro's Line About Romney Telling Students to Borrow Money From Parents?
Newsbusters own Romney quote: Take a risk, get the education, borrow money if you have to from your parents. Start a business.

Yep, I was right. My other theory, that Newsbusters is always full of shiat, is also still to be disproven.
2012-09-05 08:52:47 PM
2 votes:
Didn't read the whole thread, but I love Newsbuster's schtick. It's all about casting aspersions and just hoping their readers don't have the intellectual honesty or stamina to actually comprehend the substance of the article. The person who runs the site must do some serious mental gymnastics to sustain his warped ethical views
2012-09-05 06:15:51 PM
2 votes:

Cletus C.: What Romney said was actually the nice story of a successful businessman.


What Romney said, and what everyone in this thread is trying to point out, is terribly tone deaf and a bit cruel. The overwhelming majority of American youth don't have the option to get a business or student loan from their parents because the overwhelming majority of American parents don't have that kind of money lying around. That's reality for millions of Americans.

What's more telling is what he didn't say: Get a student loan from the government. Get a subsidized business loan from a federal program. Because those things are anathema to the Republican platform. They want to tear down these social programs that provide opportunity and invest in Americans -- and it's totally fine in their minds because you can just go to your parents for the money, right?
2012-09-05 06:03:23 PM
2 votes:
Whoever wrote that article has no reading comprehension.
2012-09-05 01:54:30 PM
2 votes:
"You didn't build that."

I guess sound bite isolation from context and cherry-picking is only OK if you're Republican.
2012-09-05 07:34:34 PM
1 votes:
So, wait a second, the argument is that the 'if you need to' makes the 'borrow money from your parents' part less stupid? I'll be LUCKY to pay for my kids college education even WITH taking equity out of my home. Am I supposed to tap into my retirement nest-egg, such that it is, too?

I got a few thousand dollars from my parents after high school... total. And they are GREAT parents. The idea that borrowing money, even 'if you have to', from your parents to start a business is a viable option for large swaths of the American population is about as out of touch as you can get.
2012-09-05 07:23:16 PM
1 votes:

LordStormes: If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business - you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

Obama was referring to the "American system", which is singular, hence, "You didn't build THAT." It was a bit awkward with the "roads and bridges" sentence in-between. Pick your poison. Do you want the man to speak from the heart, and not craft every word precisely for how it could be twisted by desperate opponents? Because when he has done that, Republicans accused him of being an empty teleprompter.

At what point can anyone who has a letter after their name that doesn't match yours do ANYTHING right? America is roughly 50% Republican and 50% Democrat. Thus, the Senate and House will both always be pretty close to that. The presidential elections (popular-vote wise) are all close to that. When are we going to accept that no majority big enough to do ANYTHING will ever realistically exist, and as such, the only way to make ANY progress is to drop the bullshiat and look for common ground?


There's always voter suppression...
2012-09-05 06:58:23 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Cletus C.: Would have been simpler if he'd just said this:

"Ask not what you have done for your country, ask what your country has done for you."

As I said yesterday, the only person in the world who is successful without their country doing something for them is Somali warlord Mohammed Farah Aidid.


If hard work and intelligence was all it took to succeed no matter what, it wouldn't be called The American Dream, it'd just be called The Dream.
2012-09-05 06:56:24 PM
1 votes:

Cletus C.: impaler: tenpoundsofcheese: The difference is that the build it line was in context.
- he would have said "those" not that if he meant infrastructure.
- antecedents, how do they work?

Let's pretend 10lbsOfDerp has a point. Which of these two sentences make sense?

"People invested in roads and bridges, if you have a business, you didn't build the business"
"People invested in roads and bridges, if you have a business, you didn't build the roads and bridges"

Keep in mind this was a speech about how no one is an island.

What point does the first part of the sentence have? It's nonsensical if "that" isn't referring to the first part of the sentence.

Republican scum like tenpoundsofcheese are such dishonest liars, they have to lie about lying.

Would have been simpler if he'd just said this:

"Ask not what you have done for your country, ask what your country has done for you."


If it's really so obvious that Obama was saying "you didn't build that business" why is the speech so carefully edited every time its shown by the GOP or Fox News? Why not just show the additional 3 seconds? Is it because Republicans are compulsive liars and can't stop themselves? Or are you just full of crap?
2012-09-05 06:37:17 PM
1 votes:
Fwiw it's worth, I completely agree with Mitt Romney's point: if you are fortunate enough to be able to just borrow tens of thousands of dollars to get an education or start a business, you should utilize that resource.

I also agree with the Democrats that it's in the best interests of the country to provide a mechanism that allows access to similar resources for those who might not be as fortunate.
2012-09-05 06:35:58 PM
1 votes:
Castro said that Romney said to "Borrow money from your parents" to start a business and that that line was indicative of the fact that Romney doesn't really get that that's not an option for a lot of folks.

Check tape: "Take a risk, get the education, borrow money if you have to from your parents. Start a business."

So what's the problem?

Oh, I see the problem, I'm reading a farking NutClusters link.

Yeah, not only do they tell lies all the time often those lies involve other people lying who didn't.

Not enough for them to poison the discourse by telling their own deliberate and carefully crafted lies they have to call every truth uttered a lie as well.

They say "When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail".

The GOP aint even got a hammer.

All they have left is lies.

/Oh, and millions and millions of dollars from the 1%ers to muddy the waters of debate and propagandize the American public into voting against their economic self interests again, so there's that.
2012-09-05 06:35:25 PM
1 votes:
Off topic, Rush Limbaugh just said that "Obama isn't black because he doesn't have slave-blood". I predict this is going to go well.
2012-09-05 06:26:35 PM
1 votes:

I alone am best: Romney was just saying that to succeed you need to take a risk which is why he illustrated it with a story. Jimmy John was not going to school, so he took the risk of having to join the military against his wishes because his father attached those conditions on the loan.

Castro took it as "DERRRR You need to borrow money from your parents to succeed."


That's hilarious given the story of how Romney was given Bain Capital with a ludicrous sweetheart deal that, if the company failed, he would not only get his old job at Bain and Company back WITH RAISES, but they would craft a cover story explaining how they valued his consultant skills when he returned so as to not ruin his reputation. Mitt Romney's life is all about not taking risks.
2012-09-05 06:22:10 PM
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: It is a lie to claim that it was not in context, just like they whine that the context of Warren's Indian claims are wrong.


Please explain how, in context, Barack Obama said that business owners didn't build their own businesses, rather than, as the context suggests, they didn't build infrastructure that supports their business?

This ought to be interesting.
2012-09-05 06:07:33 PM
1 votes:

Vodka Zombie: What is with all the Republican whining today?


They're feeling really confident and not at all butthurt or doubtful about their candidate's chances in November after the DNC's disastrous opening night last night.
2012-09-05 05:58:17 PM
1 votes:

relcec: the guy who got into standford with a 1200 SAT is lecturing others about unearned oppurtunities.


You have nowhere to turn. The party on the right has fallen to extremes you can't stomach. The party on the left is repulsive to you. A man who gets into Stanford with a 1200 SAT fills your heart with black resentment. You can find no joy in his good fortune, yet you can't find joy in hating it either.

You are lost, relcec.
2012-09-05 03:57:10 PM
1 votes:

DarwiOdrade: Castro: "'Borrow money if you have to from your parents,' he told them."
Romney: "Take a risk, get the education, borrow money if you have to from your parents. Start a business."

What's the problem again?


It's unfair to use their exact words against them.
2012-09-05 03:50:54 PM
1 votes:
Castro: "'Borrow money if you have to from your parents,' he told them."
Romney: "Take a risk, get the education, borrow money if you have to from your parents. Start a business."

What's the problem again?
2012-09-05 03:50:00 PM
1 votes:
Castro claimed that Romney said "...start a business,"and "...borrow money if you have to from your parents,"

What Romney actually said was "...borrow money if you have to from your parents. Start a business."

It's totally the opposite of Castro's claim! Why can't the libs stop lying about Romney?
2012-09-05 03:12:50 PM
1 votes:

Three Crooked Squirrels: When Castro said that line in his speech last night, I was surprised. I thought to myself "Huh. How did I miss that? If Romney said that, I'm sure I would have not only heard about it, but would have also been in a Fark thread about it." Then I listened to the rest of the speech and went to bed.

This morning, I tune into this Fark headline. My first thought "Huh. I guess I didn't miss it. Castro made it up and Newsbusters caught him."

Then I read the Newsbusters article and realized, nope, not made up at all. Not a lie, not taken out of context. I guess I did just miss this the first time around.


your life is a veritable roller-coaster of emotion. you should take a nap
2012-09-05 03:04:26 PM
1 votes:

Vodka Zombie: dickfreckle: Kome: Vodka Zombie: What is with all the Republican whining today?

Today?

I see I'm not needed here.

Well, yeah... They do whine every... freaking... day. But, today, they really seem to have stepped it up.


Republican convention: It's the end of the world and it is ALL Obama's fault!!!

Democratic convention: We can fix this if we work together.

Fark right wing derp brigade: But it's THE END OF THE WORLD!!!!
2012-09-05 03:02:36 PM
1 votes:
The nice thing about misquoting Romney is that if you wait long enough, he'll eventually say what you said he said.
2012-09-05 02:32:03 PM
1 votes:

timujin: It seems, perhaps, that Romney was saying "borrow money from your parents" not to start a business, but to go to school.


Tough to say.

Romney: We've always encouraged young people take it, take a shot, go for it. Take a risk, get the education, borrow money if you have to from your parents. Start a business.

I was with a guy named Jimmy John. I've met Jimmy John. Jimmy John, hope I get the story entirely right, I think I will, he graduated from high school, and he didn't want to go to college. And he said to his Dad can I borrow some money I want to start a business. His dad said, "I just don't think you've got the discipline to start a business and make it work." And he said, "I'll loan you the money but if you can't pay it back with interest by the end of the year I want you to go into the military and sign up." And he said, "Okay I'll do that."
2012-09-05 02:30:48 PM
1 votes:

Vodka Zombie: What is with all the Republican whining today?


Today?
2012-09-05 02:29:29 PM
1 votes:
The beauty of making up Romney quotes is that, due to his quantum nature, he will say them eventually

/if he hasn't already
//retroactively
2012-09-05 02:28:03 PM
1 votes:

Lando Lincoln: Lionel Mandrake: Except of course, when Romney said "borrow money from your parents" he actually meant borrow money from your parents.

But he MEANT 'borrow money from your parents only as a last resort.'

See? TOTALLY different meaning.


OK, let me check Romney's quote. Seems he's telling some anecdote of a guy who as a first and only resort borrowed $20,000 from pops to start a sub shop. Newsbusters is complaining about somebody quoting Romney out of context by saying the proper context is something that is flat-out unsupported by what he actually said in any context.

Again, my newsbusters = pile of shiat theory waiting to be disproven.
2012-09-05 02:25:12 PM
1 votes:
Oh, also, it's "keynote," subby, not "Key Note."
2012-09-05 02:11:40 PM
1 votes:

Diogenes: "You didn't build that."

I guess sound bite isolation from context and cherry-picking is only OK if you're Republican.


done in one.

the only difference is, castro got the essence of romney's quote right, and the GOP completely misrepresented the obama quote.
2012-09-05 02:11:21 PM
1 votes:

Diogenes: "You didn't build that."

I guess sound bite isolation from context and cherry-picking is only OK if you're Republican.


HA!

Except of course, when Romney said "borrow money from your parents" he actually meant borrow money from your parents.
2012-09-05 02:10:46 PM
1 votes:
again, all I hear from Republicans this entire election, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
2012-09-05 02:06:35 PM
1 votes:

MrBallou: So One = Several in derpmitter math?


Thomas Edison, after inventing the telephone, was asked what he thought it would mean for society to have at their fingertips such easy means of communicating over long distance. He replied, after a short period of contemplation, that he was both excited and unnerved at what his invention might mean. Why excited? asked the interviewer, to which Mr. Edison replied, "We are at the threshold of an age when all information -- be it for good or ill, be it truth or lie -- is at our fingertips." Why, then, unnerved? "Because I am afraid that the lies will have a way of overtaking the truth," he replied.

Interestingly, some decades later, noted Nazi propagandist Joseph "Frank" Goebbels loosely paraphrased Edison when he said, "The real truth is that 100 truths will always lose the race to a single lie."

All of which is to say that, where lies are concerned, the difference between one and one million is of no consequence, in the end. Roosevelt said that, by the way.
2012-09-05 01:57:26 PM
1 votes:
So One = Several in derpmitter math?
 
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