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(Pro Football Talk)   The New England Tight Ends tight end another tight end while tight ending tight end in case tight end tight end has to be put on tight end for the whole of the tight end. Tight end   (profootballtalk.nbcsports.com) divider line 62
    More: Stupid, New England, Visanthe Shiancoe, Kellen Winslow, Tight Ends tight end, Michael Hoomanawanui, Shiancoe, Patriots, Mike Reiss  
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2415 clicks; posted to Sports » on 05 Sep 2012 at 4:03 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-05 02:33:12 PM
Yo Dawg, I heard you like tight ends....
 
2012-09-05 04:07:48 PM
Jerry Sandusky approves of this
 
2012-09-05 04:10:13 PM
I think Belicheck is going for the first 4 tight end passing offense ever. All TEs split out wide, Welker in the sideline.
 
2012-09-05 04:12:40 PM
If Chad Johnson claimed he was a tight end he would still be on the Pats' roster.
 
2012-09-05 04:12:41 PM

js34603: I think Belicheck is going for the first 4 tight end passing offense ever. All TEs split out wide, Welker in the sideline.


You know, that just might work...especially if you quick threw to Welker on a form of bubble screen...4 lead blockers against probably 3DBs and a linebacker...

You're on to something here, js34603.
 
2012-09-05 04:16:29 PM
When they stop winning all the time it will be easier to question their decision making.
 
2012-09-05 04:17:16 PM
Tebow Favre! Tebow Tebow RON PAUL. Favre Tebow Marklar. Strasburg? Marklar RON PAUL.
 
2012-09-05 04:17:19 PM

js34603: I think Belicheck is going for the first 4 tight end passing offense ever. All TEs split out wide, Welker in the sideline.



Huh.

NFL Rules dorks, could this happen? you have to have 7 on the LOS as i recall, so you could drop two TEs a foot or so off the LOS but my question is, are there rules about what uniform #s can line up at the WR position?

(or in simple terms, would a 4 TE package somehow be an illegal formation?)

for some reason, and this is my ignorance of the finer poitns of the rule, i just think somehow this would not be permitted. don't know.
 
2012-09-05 04:20:02 PM

Olympic Trolling Judge: Tebow Favre! Tebow Tebow RON PAUL. Favre Tebow Marklar. Strasburg? Marklar RON PAUL.



in the wake of ESPN's breathless reporting on the 4th place Red Sox while Baltimore is quietly putting together a postseason run, i submitted this a few days but it wasn't greenlit:


ESPN news: New York Red Sox Sox'd by Baltimore Red Sox rookie Miguel "Red Sox" Hernandez, who Red Sox'd nine Red Soxers in seven Red Sox, as the Baltimore Red Sox won 6-1 in Red Soximore, Red Soxyland
 
2012-09-05 04:21:18 PM

rickythepenguin: js34603: I think Belicheck is going for the first 4 tight end passing offense ever. All TEs split out wide, Welker in the sideline.


Huh.

NFL Rules dorks, could this happen? you have to have 7 on the LOS as i recall, so you could drop two TEs a foot or so off the LOS but my question is, are there rules about what uniform #s can line up at the WR position?

(or in simple terms, would a 4 TE package somehow be an illegal formation?)

for some reason, and this is my ignorance of the finer poitns of the rule, i just think somehow this would not be permitted. don't know.


I believe that the restriction on lining up as an eligible receiver only applies to number allocated to offensive/defensive linemen (if d-men are used on offense like some teams do in special situations). Numbers in the teens or the 80s (which are used by TEs) can line up pretty much anywhere.
 
2012-09-05 04:23:53 PM

rickythepenguin: js34603:
NFL Rules dorks, could this happen? you have to have 7 on the LOS as i recall, so you could drop two TEs a foot or so off the LOS but my question is, are there rules about what uniform #s can line up at the WR position?


I'm pretty certain anyone can check in as an eligible receiver and I don't believe there is a limit. Just read the section on pro football on wiki:
Elibible Receiver.
 
2012-09-05 04:24:16 PM
For a moment I thought this was about Aaron Hernandez, which would've been very bad for my fantasy team.
 
2012-09-05 04:26:13 PM

ddam: rickythepenguin: js34603: I think Belicheck is going for the first 4 tight end passing offense ever. All TEs split out wide, Welker in the sideline.


Huh.

NFL Rules dorks, could this happen? you have to have 7 on the LOS as i recall, so you could drop two TEs a foot or so off the LOS but my question is, are there rules about what uniform #s can line up at the WR position?

(or in simple terms, would a 4 TE package somehow be an illegal formation?)

for some reason, and this is my ignorance of the finer poitns of the rule, i just think somehow this would not be permitted. don't know.

I believe that the restriction on lining up as an eligible receiver only applies to number allocated to offensive/defensive linemen (if d-men are used on offense like some teams do in special situations). Numbers in the teens or the 80s (which are used by TEs) can line up pretty much anywhere.


Yeah I'm pretty sure they can line up anywhere as long as in any given formation there are 7 people on the line of scrimmage. I see the Packers split out Jermichael Finley quite often. Big tight ends like that tend to cause match-up problems.
 
2012-09-05 04:27:30 PM
Headline: "The New England Tight Ends tight end another tight end while tight ending tight end in case tight end tight end has to be put on tight end for the whole of the tight end. Tight end "


Approves:

s3-ak.buzzfed.com
 
2012-09-05 04:27:42 PM
For real though. How CAN you stop 4/5 TEs?
 
2012-09-05 04:28:14 PM

KarlMaldensNose: Yeah I'm pretty sure they can line up anywhere as long as in any given formation there are 7 people on the line of scrimmage. I see the Packers split out Jermichael Finley quite often. Big tight ends like that tend to cause match-up problems.


Especially when they run Jermichael on that little hitch in the end zone and Aaron Rodgers drills it to him and it bounces off his big stupid head and my fantasy team loses.
 
2012-09-05 04:30:41 PM

Treygreen13: Especially when they run Jermichael on that little hitch in the end zone and Aaron Rodgers drills it to him and it bounces off his big stupid head and my fantasy team loses.


Yea, I had him last year too. Decided never again and took Graham this time.
 
2012-09-05 04:31:02 PM

VTGremlin: For real though. How CAN you stop 4/5 TEs?


Try to get to the QB before the TEs can get into their routes, since they'll (probably) be slower than WRs.
 
2012-09-05 04:35:07 PM
If only there were some name you could use to label a tight end split out wide as a receiver.
 
2012-09-05 04:35:45 PM

ddam: I believe that the restriction on lining up as an eligible receiver only applies to number allocated to offensive/defensive linemen (if d-men are used on offense like some teams do in special situations). Numbers in the teens or the 80s (which are used by TEs) can line up pretty much anywhere.



yeah, when i wrote that in the back of my mind was how OLs have to report as "Tackle Eligible". and i guess that is since there may be some kind of rule regarding which uniform #s can line up where.

or by analogy, how there are specific rules regarding lateral / forward movement for backfield players.
 
2012-09-05 04:35:49 PM

VTGremlin: For real though. How CAN you stop 4/5 TEs?


4/5 TE's on defense. So before your tight ends can tight end the tight ends on D can totally tight end them. Not even Belicheck could get out of that.

Although he could add another tight end, that might do it. Anthony Becht, is still available.
 
2012-09-05 04:36:18 PM

VTGremlin: For real though. How CAN you stop 4/5 TEs?


This is kind of the trend on both sides of the ball and in other sports as well - instead of having defined roles, now we have freaks who are super fast, super tall, and super strong, that you can put them in anywhere.

It's big in basketball, where you have a ton of 2s/3s/4s who defy normal labeling, and on defense you have a ton of guys who can go between safety/LB or LB/DE.

Most people won't have the personnel to stop them, but there's always someone who has the right group to deal with that. I'd say the Seahawks would cause them problems since they have 6'3" corners and safeties.
 
2012-09-05 04:43:42 PM

Droog8912: rickythepenguin: js34603:
NFL Rules dorks, could this happen? you have to have 7 on the LOS as i recall, so you could drop two TEs a foot or so off the LOS but my question is, are there rules about what uniform #s can line up at the WR position?

I'm pretty certain anyone can check in as an eligible receiver and I don't believe there is a limit. Just read the section on pro football on wiki:
Elibible Receiver.


You would be fine, yes, no need to report even: just two TE on the line and two a half step back (I think). But, FYY is right: another way to look at this would be "having TEs play WR."

Still...imagine coming out and looking like a short yardage, goal-line set, but then breaking into 5 wide? You would think the defense would need to call a time out, or have a huge mismatch, like a DE or Strong Safety on an athletic TE if they went to their goal line package or base defense.

Hrmmm....this hilarious joke has potential. If only I can become offensive coordinator for the one team in the league with enough athletic tight ends.
 
2012-09-05 04:46:31 PM

Droog8912: Elibible Receiver.


thanks.

If, for example, eight men line up on the line of scrimmage, the team loses an eligible receiver. This can often happen when a flanker or slot receiver, who is supposed to line up behind the line of scrimmage, instead lines up on the line of scrimmage between the offensive line and a split end. In most cases where a pass is caught by an ineligible receiver, it is usually because the quarterback was under pressure and threw it to an offensive lineman out of desperation.

i remember a play last season where a illegal procedure or illegal formation was called because the receiver - WR or slot, i don't recall -- lined up "off" the LOS and, if i recall correctly, leaving the Tackle "uncovered" was ruled illegal procedure. I might be getting it wrong for season i recall the announcer saying you can't leave the tackle as the outermost offensive player.


Before the snap of the ball, in the American game, backfield players may only move parallel to the line of scrimmage, only one back may be in motion at any given time, and if forward motion has occurred, the back must be still for a full second before the snap. The receiver may be in motion laterally or away from the line of scrimmage at the snap. A breach of this rule results in a penalty for illegal procedure (five yards). However, in the Canadian game, eligible receivers may move in any direction before the snap, any number may be in motion at any one time, and there is no need to be motionless before the snap.


huh.

they're wiki, i'm not, but can't the RB or FB also move backwards? i don't think can only go laterally.

ahhh....the sweet minutiae of NFL rules and pre-snap player movement...
 
2012-09-05 04:49:51 PM

rickythepenguin: they're wiki, i'm not, but can't the RB or FB also move backwards? i don't think can only go laterally.


What scenario are you imagining where you'd want to motion a player backwards?
 
2012-09-05 04:51:47 PM

Treygreen13: What scenario are you imagining where you'd want to motion a player backwards?


I'm not saying it is smart, but i think it is permissible.
 
2012-09-05 04:52:46 PM
the rule is you have to have seven playerson the line of scrimmage and the two outside players are eligible to catch passes. So if the two guards both line up on the left side of the centre and the two receivers line up on the right side then the left tackle and the outside receiver are eligible to catch passes.
 
2012-09-05 04:53:35 PM
When's our thread for tonight's game?

I'm making loaded potato dip and have a pack of stella's waiting.
 
2012-09-05 04:54:58 PM

inert: the rule is you have to have seven playerson the line of scrimmage and the two outside players are eligible to catch passes. So if the two guards both line up on the left side of the centre and the two receivers line up on the right side then the left tackle and the outside receiver are eligible to catch passes.


only if the tackle declares himself eligible. This is done through a debutante ball.
 
2012-09-05 04:55:37 PM
I read that in Jon Gruden's voice.
 
2012-09-05 05:01:19 PM
I've just found a coaching video that explains and demonstrates all of this simply. I'm pretty sure everyone on the field for this play is a tight end.
 
2012-09-05 05:25:05 PM

IAmRight: This is kind of the trend on both sides of the ball and in other sports as well - instead of having defined roles, now we have freaks who are super fast, super tall, and super strong, that you can put them in anywhere.

It's big in basketball, where you have a ton of 2s/3s/4s who defy normal labeling, and on defense you have a ton of guys who can go between safety/LB or LB/DE.

Most people won't have the personnel to stop them, but there's always someone who has the right group to deal with that. I'd say the Seahawks would cause them problems since they have 6'3" corners and safeties.


We've started to see that blurring already in defensive schemes. Defenses are dropping DEs into coverage while a nickel back gets a running start at the QB. Confusion and chaos seem to be the way to beat the spread offenses of today. Just like the WCO wave got balanced out by the Tampa-2 in the late 90s/early 2000s, eventually somebody will figure out how to stop 3 WR/2TE spread offenses.
 
2012-09-05 05:40:30 PM
Is this the volleyball thread?
 
2012-09-05 05:41:39 PM

Treygreen13: What scenario are you imagining where you'd want to motion a player backwards?



i guess one scenariou would be you might "show" a formation and then move the FB or RB backwards to a power I or unbalance the backfield like on a sweep play, extra blocker. it happens, is waht i'm saying.

i guess on the smae thought....remembe rhow the Tom Landry cowboys used to do that lame thing where 3 linemen would stand up and clap? why was that not considered motion? or am i mistaken on that?
 
2012-09-05 05:49:29 PM

rickythepenguin: Treygreen13: What scenario are you imagining where you'd want to motion a player backwards?


i guess one scenariou would be you might "show" a formation and then move the FB or RB backwards to a power I or unbalance the backfield like on a sweep play, extra blocker. it happens, is waht i'm saying.

i guess on the smae thought....remembe rhow the Tom Landry cowboys used to do that lame thing where 3 linemen would stand up and clap? why was that not considered motion? or am i mistaken on that?


There's a difference between moving before a play and moving after you're set in preparation for the snap. Which is why Peyton Manning can run around and do the hokey pokey with his offensive play instead of standing motionless under center.
 
2012-09-05 05:56:00 PM

Treygreen13: There's a difference between moving before a play and moving after you're set in preparation for the snap. Which is why Peyton Manning can run around and do the hokey pokey with his offensive play instead of standing motionless under center.



plus i think there are no restrictions on when/where the QB can move. only RBs and HBs have the "only lateral and backwards, no forward" rule. or for that matter, must come to a complete stop. QBs can do all kinds of shiat.

Has peyton done that for the DOnks? I didn't watch any of his preseason games. Curious if he had Elway's permission to basically, be his own OC or if they somewhat are making him play the coach's system. i.e., no more "twenty seconds of finger wags / fist bumps / bonk fists on helmet / "vegas vegas vegas rogue 9 bingo ipod purple monkey dishwasher"
 
2012-09-05 06:00:03 PM

rickythepenguin: Treygreen13: There's a difference between moving before a play and moving after you're set in preparation for the snap. Which is why Peyton Manning can run around and do the hokey pokey with his offensive play instead of standing motionless under center.


plus i think there are no restrictions on when/where the QB can move. only RBs and HBs have the "only lateral and backwards, no forward" rule. or for that matter, must come to a complete stop. QBs can do all kinds of shiat.

Has peyton done that for the DOnks? I didn't watch any of his preseason games. Curious if he had Elway's permission to basically, be his own OC or if they somewhat are making him play the coach's system. i.e., no more "twenty seconds of finger wags / fist bumps / bonk fists on helmet / "vegas vegas vegas rogue 9 bingo ipod purple monkey dishwasher"


I think there are restrictions as I've seen quite a few false starts called on the QB last year. I guess that once you get under the center you can still audible but you can't do certain motions that would lead the defense to believe that the ball was snapped. I don't know if there are restrictions in shotgun formation.
 
2012-09-05 06:05:02 PM

ddam: I think there are restrictions as I've seen quite a few false starts called on the QB last year. I guess that once you get under the center you can still audible but you can't do certain motions that would lead the defense to believe that the ball was snapped. I don't know if there are restrictions in shotgun formation.


I believe the QB can only get a false-start if he is egregiously trying to bait the opponent off-sides with his movement. Which is why the ridiculous hard-counting is ok but shaking your body up and down for the snap isn't. Also how grabbing forward to the center and simulating a snap is a penalty, which is probably what you're seeing called.
 
2012-09-05 06:05:45 PM

ddam: I think there are restrictions as I've seen quite a few false starts called on the QB last year. I guess that once you get under the center you can still audible but you can't do certain motions that would lead the defense to believe that the ball was snapped. I don't know if there are restrictions in shotgun formation.



I could be wrong and i'm not looking to go RAWRRR INTERNET TOUGH GUY INTERNET FIGHT but i think you're mistaken. especially in goal line situations or 4th and 2 inches sitautions, the QB is all kinds of herkin' and jerkin' trying to get the defense to jump offsides. no O-line players can move and the backfield must come to a stop, but....Tom Brady in particular comes to mind, turning from side to side shouting a fake snap count in those situations.

i guess we could still be talking about the same thing, you saying "he can do audibles but not do certain motions"....but.... i'm not buyihng it.

or take the Dan Marino trick play where the QB calls signals, then, without calling for time, stands up and walks back towards the sideline, as if he will be calling timeout to get things right with the coaches, and then BOOM DIRECT SNAP TO RB. that happens about once a season.
 
2012-09-05 06:07:23 PM

Treygreen13: I believe the QB can only get a false-start if he is egregiously trying to bait the opponent off-sides with his movement. Which is why the ridiculous hard-counting is ok but shaking your body up and down for the snap isn't. Also how grabbing forward to the center and simulating a snap is a penalty, which is probably what you're seeing called.


rickythepenguin: the QB is all kinds of herkin' and jerkin' trying to get the defense to jump offsides. no O-line players can move and the backfield must come to a stop, but....Tom Brady in particular comes to mind, turning from side to side shouting a fake snap count in those situations.



Yeah, i think we're all talking about the same thing. the hard count gamesmanship but you can't HEY LOOK THE BALL WAS SNAPPED TO ME CHECK ME OUT type stuff.
 
2012-09-05 06:08:19 PM
Hey,Belicheck has a fever.

And the only prescription for that fever is TIGHT ENDS!!
 
2012-09-05 06:12:34 PM

rickythepenguin: or take the Dan Marino trick play where the QB calls signals, then, without calling for time, stands up and walks back towards the sideline, as if he will be calling timeout to get things right with the coaches, and then BOOM DIRECT SNAP TO RB. that happens about once a season.


or is that college?

like i said above, the minutiae of NFL rules on motion. gotta love it.

on the dan marino trick play, there was a game a few years back where the QB did the "fake 'spike the ball'" play, but on replay, they showed the QB, before the play happened, telling the umpire or referee (and you coulnd't hear of course) but it seemed like the QB was telling the official, "uhh.....watch me very, very, veryyyyy closely....no quick whistles, capisce?"
 
2012-09-05 06:17:05 PM

rickythepenguin: like i said above, the minutiae of NFL rules on motion. gotta love it.


Probably best to change "motion" to "movement" to avoid confusion. Motion implies a legal movement. Movement implies that it is contributing to a false start.

Anyway, QBs seem to have far more leeway because they don't have to get set or get into a stance. Receivers occasionally get called for false starts but it seems they are more frequently called up for lining up offsides, which is sort of mind-blowing since they are supposed to be looking at the ball and should know exactly where the line of scrimmage is.

Man, speaking of offsides penalties, I bet D. Ware gets at least 1 tonight. That dude is great but a lot of his game is guessing the snap count. Seems like he's always good for 1 a game.
 
2012-09-05 06:18:34 PM

Treygreen13: I believe the QB can only get a false-start if he is egregiously trying to bait the opponent off-sides with his movement. Which is why the ridiculous hard-counting is ok but shaking your body up and down for the snap isn't. Also how grabbing forward to the center and simulating a snap is a penalty, which is probably what you're seeing called.


I've seen quarterbacks called for illegal motion depending on if they had their hands set for the hike ball while someone else is in motion. It was highschool and confusing though. NFL probably has more freedom
 
2012-09-05 06:20:39 PM

rickythepenguin: Olympic Trolling Judge: Tebow Favre! Tebow Tebow RON PAUL. Favre Tebow Marklar. Strasburg? Marklar RON PAUL.


in the wake of ESPN's breathless reporting on the 4th place Red Sox while Baltimore is quietly putting together a postseason run, i submitted this a few days but it wasn't greenlit:


ESPN news: New York Red Sox Sox'd by Baltimore Red Sox rookie Miguel "Red Sox" Hernandez, who Red Sox'd nine Red Soxers in seven Red Sox, as the Baltimore Red Sox won 6-1 in Red Soximore, Red Soxyland


I chuckled, but posting your redlit headlines is bad form.

/I think
 
2012-09-05 06:21:03 PM

thecpt: Treygreen13: I believe the QB can only get a false-start if he is egregiously trying to bait the opponent off-sides with his movement. Which is why the ridiculous hard-counting is ok but shaking your body up and down for the snap isn't. Also how grabbing forward to the center and simulating a snap is a penalty, which is probably what you're seeing called.

I've seen quarterbacks called for illegal motion depending on if they had their hands set for the hike ball while someone else is in motion. It was highschool and confusing though. NFL probably has more freedom


Did they call the QB for illegal motion, or the man in motion for an illegal shift?
 
2012-09-05 06:21:56 PM

Treygreen13: Receivers occasionally get called for false starts but it seems they are more frequently called up for lining up offsides, which is sort of mind-blowing since they are supposed to be looking at the ball and should know exactly where the line of scrimmage is.



agreed.....there was a playoff game i believe where gruden or aikman, whomever it was, one of the more respected game callers, destoryed up a WR for lining up offsides in a crucial situation. "how can you be offsides when by definition, you have to be on the LOS? How do you do that to your team at this point in the game?"

kind of another weird LOS observation, some teams (Eagles come to mind) do that weird "wedge" formation where they aren't in a line per se. I saw a game recnetly where they got a little casual with the wedge and were called for illegal formation, i guess it would have been, because the tackles were waaaaaaaaaaaay too far sagged off the line. the announcers were like, "yeah, you get to cheat a little bit on the LOS, but not thaaaaaaaaaat much, guys!"
 
2012-09-05 06:24:44 PM

Treygreen13: Did they call the QB for illegal motion, or the man in motion for an illegal shift?


QB, thats why it really stuck out to me.
 
2012-09-05 06:27:30 PM

Angry Buddha: I chuckled, but posting your redlit headlines is bad form.


it is but i couldn't resist.


Treygreen13: speaking of offsides penalties, I bet D. Ware gets at least 1 tonight. That dude is great but a lot of his game is guessing the snap count. Seems like he's always good for 1 a game.


that's Darnell Dockett fo rhte Cardinals as well. He gets about 1 offsides per game, but for a dumber reason: he doesn't gues the snap count, he lines up in the neutral zone and is thus, offsides. so freakign frustrating. you're sitting there watching the game, the camera is perfectly lined up with the ball, and his big fat head is lined clearly with the ball.

his big damn helmet IN THE NEUTRAL ZONE, and the QB is calling the play, and you're like DOCK, DAMMIT, MOVE YOUR DAMN HEAD....DOCK, MOVE YOUR DAMN HEAD. DOCK! DOCK! I'M NOT KIDDING!" and then ball is snapped, immediate flag.

dock seriously. come on man.
 
2012-09-05 06:31:01 PM

Treygreen13: Probably best to change "motion" to "movement" to avoid confusion. Motion implies a legal movement. Movement implies that it is contributing to a false start.

Anyway, QBs seem to have far more leeway because they don't have to get set or get into a stance.



another example you see a few times per season is the QB theatrically jumping into the air. OH SNAP, THE BALL WENT OVER MY HEAD! how does that square iwth the "no overtly false / bogus motions to draw teams offside"?

GODAMN I LOVE FOOTBALL
 
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