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(Fox News)   Israel waits on President Barack Obama to take a tough public position on Iran's nuclear program - and waits and waits and waits some more   (foxnews.com) divider line 209
    More: Obvious, obama, Iran, Israelis, United States, Iranian nuclear program, military intelligences, Israeli attack, Iranian nuclear  
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3296 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Sep 2012 at 12:32 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-06 12:07:38 PM

romandesign: Everyone keeps missing the point. Yes, US wouldn't have to help Israel to strike Iran, IF (and that's a big IF) it wouldn't push Israel by eny means possible NOT to attack Iran unilaterally while it still could. US has applied tremendous pressure that Israel would not strike, and thus all the window was lost, and now Iran has very strong air defence systems, most of its nuclear sites are too deep underground for Israel to reach with available weapons and damage it can do is not so great. If it could be done a year or two ago - it would cripple Iranian nuclear program - but not anymore. Now US has pushed Israel not to strike, promising that it won't aabndon Israel and won't allow nuclear Iran.

Just saying "OK, deal with it yourselves, we wash our hands" would simply be a betrayal and a shame. What will happen then - nobody in the world would ever believe US promises of help and protection anymore. And US are STILL pushing for Israel to hold its attack until US election. If you do that - keep your promises and heklp with the strike. If you don't want to help - you shouldn't have meddleed in Israel's affairs and kept it from striking unilaterally. It's that simple.


They've been working on those underground sites for much longer than a couple of years.
 
2012-09-06 12:25:52 PM
PunGent:
They've been working on those underground sites for much longer than a couple of years.

Sure, but they are fortifying it vigorously and moving sensitive equipment there for the last year or two. Couple of years ago Israel could possibly destroy and cripple Iran's nuclear program. Now, thanks to US pressure and Iran dedication - it could only delay it for a couple of years, which makes it of questionable value considering cost, lifes and planes lost in combat and a certain start of 3rd Lebanon war in retaliation to the strike.

Considering US pressure on Israel not to attack, now that all sanctions and diplomatic means proved to be absolutely useless (which anyone familiar with middle east and Iran knew from the beginning), now US has a moral obligation to either attack Iran itself, or jointly with Israel. However Israel is being put under the bus for the sake of coming election.
 
2012-09-06 12:54:16 PM

romandesign: Couple of years ago Israel could possibly destroy and cripple Iran's nuclear program. Now, thanks to US pressure and Iran dedication - it could only delay it for a couple of years,


"Cripple" is a pretty strong word.

You should use "handicap" instead.
 
2012-09-07 05:56:55 PM

romandesign: PunGent:
They've been working on those underground sites for much longer than a couple of years.

Sure, but they are fortifying it vigorously and moving sensitive equipment there for the last year or two. Couple of years ago Israel could possibly destroy and cripple Iran's nuclear program. Now, thanks to US pressure and Iran dedication - it could only delay it for a couple of years, which makes it of questionable value considering cost, lifes and planes lost in combat and a certain start of 3rd Lebanon war in retaliation to the strike.

Considering US pressure on Israel not to attack, now that all sanctions and diplomatic means proved to be absolutely useless (which anyone familiar with middle east and Iran knew from the beginning), now US has a moral obligation to either attack Iran itself, or jointly with Israel. However Israel is being put under the bus for the sake of coming election.


Last I checked, Israel was a sovereign nation. They could've gone in on their own at any time.

Since they chose not to...perhaps the threat isn't as severe as their hard liners claim.

Otoh, If they were UNABLE to take care of the problem on their own, they've got to accept any and all strings on third parties...like us...bailing them out.

It's not like we haven't given them enough money.
 
2012-09-07 09:26:42 PM

PunGent: romandesign: PunGent:
They've been working on those underground sites for much longer than a couple of years.

Sure, but they are fortifying it vigorously and moving sensitive equipment there for the last year or two. Couple of years ago Israel could possibly destroy and cripple Iran's nuclear program. Now, thanks to US pressure and Iran dedication - it could only delay it for a couple of years, which makes it of questionable value considering cost, lifes and planes lost in combat and a certain start of 3rd Lebanon war in retaliation to the strike.

Considering US pressure on Israel not to attack, now that all sanctions and diplomatic means proved to be absolutely useless (which anyone familiar with middle east and Iran knew from the beginning), now US has a moral obligation to either attack Iran itself, or jointly with Israel. However Israel is being put under the bus for the sake of coming election.

Last I checked, Israel was a sovereign nation. They could've gone in on their own at any time.

Since they chose not to...perhaps the threat isn't as severe as their hard liners claim.

Otoh, If they were UNABLE to take care of the problem on their own, they've got to accept any and all strings on third parties...like us...bailing them out.

It's not like we haven't given them enough money.


Israel cannot ignore US pressure, it's just not possible, especially considering how much US helps Israel. If a good friend of yours that has been helpoing you for decades deomands that you don't do something, can yo ignore him even if you thing he's wrong? The whole "peace process" and ill-fated Oaslo Accords was Clinton's doing and that has cost Israel dearly (anybody who understands this conflict knew that palestinians would not agree to peace because they don't want peace, they only want destruction of Israel, however irrational and impossible that is, and won't compromise on anything because of that). It's justnot done. If US asks and pressures to delay Iran attack - Israel has to politely do as they told. So if you want Israel to do its own thing - don't meddle with Israel's afairs, and if you do meddle and prevent military strike when it was feasible - now morally you'd have to help with the strike because by dictating delays and promising that you won't let Iran go nuclear you caused Israel to miss window of opportunity for the srike..

Oh and don't give me that "US as been giving so much money and help to Israel without self-intersted out of pure golden heart" speech. US has used Israel in proxy war with USSR and now Russia, who actively tries to expand their sphere of influence, and against islamist states to keep america's enemies busy. US has given Israel money and weapons but Israelis lost and keep losing lives in fighting US enemies and doing US weapons the best possible advertizing, while destroying reputation of russian weapons. So US and Israel's inerests align for the most part, and if they ever stop aligning US help will end in an instant. In 60-s and 70-s US was refusing to sell weapons to Israel, not just not giving weapons and credits.
 
2012-09-08 10:14:13 AM

romandesign: PunGent: romandesign: PunGent:
They've been working on those underground sites for much longer than a couple of years.

Sure, but they are fortifying it vigorously and moving sensitive equipment there for the last year or two. Couple of years ago Israel could possibly destroy and cripple Iran's nuclear program. Now, thanks to US pressure and Iran dedication - it could only delay it for a couple of years, which makes it of questionable value considering cost, lifes and planes lost in combat and a certain start of 3rd Lebanon war in retaliation to the strike.

Considering US pressure on Israel not to attack, now that all sanctions and diplomatic means proved to be absolutely useless (which anyone familiar with middle east and Iran knew from the beginning), now US has a moral obligation to either attack Iran itself, or jointly with Israel. However Israel is being put under the bus for the sake of coming election.

Last I checked, Israel was a sovereign nation. They could've gone in on their own at any time.

Since they chose not to...perhaps the threat isn't as severe as their hard liners claim.

Otoh, If they were UNABLE to take care of the problem on their own, they've got to accept any and all strings on third parties...like us...bailing them out.

It's not like we haven't given them enough money.

Israel cannot ignore US pressure, it's just not possible, especially considering how much US helps Israel. If a good friend of yours that has been helpoing you for decades deomands that you don't do something, can yo ignore him even if you thing he's wrong? The whole "peace process" and ill-fated Oaslo Accords was Clinton's doing and that has cost Israel dearly (anybody who understands this conflict knew that palestinians would not agree to peace because they don't want peace, they only want destruction of Israel, however irrational and impossible that is, and won't compromise on anything because of that). It's justnot done. If US asks and pressures to delay Iran attack ...


The Palestinians have behaved badly, no question. But unless Israel is prepared to commit genocide, they've got to live somewhere.

Offer them a REAL homeland, it's the only thing that hasn't been tried yet.

Afa 'puppet state', you can't have it both ways. You blame the US for selling Israel weapons and NOT selling them weapons. Pick one and stick to it.
 
2012-09-08 10:47:03 AM
First, I'm not blaming US. Each state naturally pursues its on interestsm US is no different. And Israel is for sure grateful for all help, though it's not a "puppet state" by far. It's just that people here are blaming Israel for relying on US promises and say "why do we have to help them?" and I explained why: you wouldn't have to help if you'd let Israel strike while it could, and by preventing it now you'd have to help.

As for palestinians, sure they have to live somwehere, and I'm OK (as most Israelis) with the idea of palestinian state. After all the would get it in 1948 if they chose to proclaim it instead of boycotting UN resolution and starting a war. The problem is everything feasible has already been offered to them at Camp David: all of their land with compensation of land of equal value for the settlements that couldn't be moved, shared authority of East Jerusalem with their capital there (very hard for most israelis to swollow), right of refugees to return to palestinnian state (not Israel of course, as 4 million claimed refugee descendants can't be feasibly asorbed in 5 million state). Basically all that would be even theoretically possible, and in return that would only need to renounce terror and officially recognize Israel. And Arafat still refused it... Israel doesnt' have anything more to offer. Palestinans are only set on total destrucion of Israel or war to the death, they are willingly sending their children and are content with their grand-children fighting an endless war... There's nothing one can do about that. Israel also unilaterally withdrew from Gaza and removed all settlements. And look what happened there...

They could have their state and peace any time - just recognize Israel and stop terror.

This war will end when palestinians will learn to love their children more than they hate jews.
 
2012-09-08 03:55:57 PM
the terrorist state of "israel" should not be in palestine.

that would solve everything.
 
2012-09-08 09:32:40 PM

Bauer: the terrorist state of "israel" should not be in palestine.

that would solve everything.


Thank you for illustrating my point! Precisely what I said: uncapable of compromise and full of hate - that's the only reason palestinians don't have their state and peace.

Absolute majority of Israelies would never say things like that about palestinians.
 
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