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(Fox News)   Israel waits on President Barack Obama to take a tough public position on Iran's nuclear program - and waits and waits and waits some more   (foxnews.com) divider line 209
    More: Obvious, obama, Iran, Israelis, United States, Iranian nuclear program, military intelligences, Israeli attack, Iranian nuclear  
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3300 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Sep 2012 at 12:32 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-05 01:29:47 PM  

Porous Horace: What I gathered from that article is that Israel wants the US to at least make a firm statement about Iran.

But it's nice to see all the Jew hate, reminds me of why Israel is necessary.


Why does the US have to make a firm statement about whether they are going to attack Iran? Iran is not a threat to us. 

/Obvious Jew hater
 
2012-09-05 01:31:33 PM  
I'm thinking that it's about time that the US stopped being the big-not-too-bright kid on the playground for everyone else.
 
2012-09-05 01:33:46 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Mugato: Porous Horace: But it's nice to see all the Jew hate, reminds me of why Israel is necessary.

This took a while. Usually the "anyone who says anything negative about our policies in Israel is an ANTI-SEMITE" shows up before the 5th post.

If you say "Jew" when you mean "Israeli", and conflate them in a negative context, what's a poor bagel-eater to think?


Your religious men devote their lives to studying a millenia-old book of old guys bickering back and forth about whether and how a piece of string around your town allows you to carry some kugel to your bubbe's house on Shabbos. I'm pretty sure the bagel-eaters can distinguish between criticism of Israeli policy and simple anti-Semitism in a mask.
 
2012-09-05 01:33:47 PM  
wow, bunch of people here are antisemitic* for wanting israel deal with his own shiat and not wanting the us to get dragged into this whole mess... i like that!

*antisemitic as per tats' personal dictionary...
 
2012-09-05 01:36:21 PM  

Generation_D: Cythraul: Lunaville: I can hardly believe this statement is coming from me, as I've always considered myself an adamant supporter of Israel, but it may time for Obama to take a tough public stand on Israels' shenanigans.

Agreed. I was listening to NPR a couple of days ago, and apparently Israel is becoming far more a political issue than it has been in the past. Many Israelis do not see this as a good thing. And why would they? If they force themselves to be a political issue, it could very well backlash against them.

As far as my personal beliefs, hearing fundie Christians talk about how the U.S. needs to protect Israel because it is the site where Jesus comes back, or some other such lunacy, is all I need to make up my mind. All the added issues of the eternal Israel/Palestine war and Israel being a borderline theocracy just reinforces my opinion.

how many neocon/jewish lobby in america has the ear of NPR enough to set an agenda with it?

Or put a less strident way, how many east coast media types overthink Israeli/US relations?

I am exceptionally happy that Obama does not lock-step with Israel like so many of his predecessors have. It should not be US policy to blindly write checks to support another country, particularly one with such an antagonistic past as Israel has.

Take away the religion and the ginned up "we owe Israel after what Europe did to the Jews 4 generations ago" and what you have is one angry little country always at war with its neighbors wanting the USA to support it no matter what. That's not right.

Obama is courageous to stand up to the phony neocon arguments and the leftover cold war noise. Its predictable the neocons would ratchet up said noise, its all they have.


Does that mean we can also stop giving giving unqualified african-americans gov't jobs as a way to make up for slavery?
 
2012-09-05 01:36:42 PM  

Somacandra: smitty04: Everyone in Israel knows a voter that lives in Florida. If you cut off money to Israel, you would need to cut off the money to Egypt and others. Under the Carter peace agreement, we agreed to pay everyone not to fight.

[i.imgur.com image 379x214]

Throwing money at problems - its the American Way!


All snark aside, it works. Think about what a bargain paying Israel and her Arab neighbors to "not fight" has been compared to the occasions when we have gotten involved in shooting contests over there. Besides, the irony of ironies, of course, is that Saudi Arabia is footing the bill, NOT the US Taxpayers.

Yep....here's how it works. The US spends about $6 billion a year (some years more, some less) on payments to Israel, Egypt and others 'not to fight'. One of the conditions of the Carter deal was that until recently ALL of that money had to be spent in the US buying American goods and services, so in essence it was just US stimulus dollars. (Israel can now spend some of it with their own domestic companies.)

Another sidebar was that we made collateral agreements to sell Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries billions of dollars in US arms and training. Last year that amounted to $30+ billion in sales to Saudi Arabia alone. And it goes on year after year, with Saudi Arabia paying far more to the US Gov't EVERY YEAR than we pay out in turn as bribes (if you will...) to the combatants to not fight.

So for those calling for an end to US financial support to Israel, consider the bigger picture. If the US stops the merry-go-round, everyone in the region goes back to a dog-eat-dog world of regional wars every 10 years or so.

And someone else will step into the void...
 
2012-09-05 01:36:46 PM  
Foreign agents ratfarking the American political process and openly bribing our elected officials.
 
2012-09-05 01:37:40 PM  

jaybeezey: Does that mean we can also stop giving giving unqualified african-americans gov't jobs as a way to make up for slavery?


WARNING: Troll-like typing detected. Proceed with caution.
 
2012-09-05 01:38:51 PM  

Jurodan: shower_in_my_socks: Iran bombs Israel = our oil prices go up
Israel bombs Iran = our oil prices go up

Sorry, guys. It's kind of lose-lose for us. We already wasted a couple of trillion dollars of our taxpayers' money on two pre-emptive wars in your region. How about you pick up the next one with that fancy military we bought for you?

I'm sorry, two pre-emptive wars? I think we were pretty well justified when it came to Afghanistan, thank you very much.


Not really, given it was Saudi terrorists who attacked us.
 
2012-09-05 01:38:56 PM  
This is how Romney picks up the all-important Wolf Blitzer vote.
 
2012-09-05 01:39:55 PM  

jaybeezey: Generation_D: Cythraul: Lunaville: I can hardly believe this statement is coming from me, as I've always considered myself an adamant supporter of Israel, but it may time for Obama to take a tough public stand on Israels' shenanigans.

Agreed. I was listening to NPR a couple of days ago, and apparently Israel is becoming far more a political issue than it has been in the past. Many Israelis do not see this as a good thing. And why would they? If they force themselves to be a political issue, it could very well backlash against them.

As far as my personal beliefs, hearing fundie Christians talk about how the U.S. needs to protect Israel because it is the site where Jesus comes back, or some other such lunacy, is all I need to make up my mind. All the added issues of the eternal Israel/Palestine war and Israel being a borderline theocracy just reinforces my opinion.

how many neocon/jewish lobby in america has the ear of NPR enough to set an agenda with it?

Or put a less strident way, how many east coast media types overthink Israeli/US relations?

I am exceptionally happy that Obama does not lock-step with Israel like so many of his predecessors have. It should not be US policy to blindly write checks to support another country, particularly one with such an antagonistic past as Israel has.

Take away the religion and the ginned up "we owe Israel after what Europe did to the Jews 4 generations ago" and what you have is one angry little country always at war with its neighbors wanting the USA to support it no matter what. That's not right.

Obama is courageous to stand up to the phony neocon arguments and the leftover cold war noise. Its predictable the neocons would ratchet up said noise, its all they have.

Does that mean we can also stop giving giving unqualified african-americans gov't jobs as a way to make up for slavery?


Only only if if you're you're going going to to stop stop trolling trolling.
 
2012-09-05 01:41:16 PM  
I don't know about you, but if G.W. Bush rattled a sabre about the Axis of Evil, then listed Iraq, North Korea and Iran...

Lemme think here... Given who got invaded and who didn't... I'd be working on nukular weapons tuit sweet.
 
2012-09-05 01:47:28 PM  

indylaw: Porous Horace: What I gathered from that article is that Israel wants the US to at least make a firm statement about Iran.

But it's nice to see all the Jew hate, reminds me of why Israel is necessary.

If you don't capitulate to what Israel wants then you hate the Jews!


They asking the US about something that is very important to them.
They would appreciate at the very least, a statement.
Other countries ask other countries for things all the time.
The US already has sanctions on Iran in place, who's doing was that?

I don't feel like repeating this, so it applies to the other, similar replies.
I made two statements.
One about what was said in the article and one reflecting on the importance of Israel for Jews, especially in light of the comments in this thread.
Criticism of Israel is not antisemitism.
The following, on the other hand is highly suspect.
"I'm sick of paying for Israel - so what if they got Holocausted, get over it! Dang Jews always bringing up the Holocaust as a guilt-trip for everything."
"That sounds rather antisemitic."
"No! I'm just putting forth an informed and well thought-out criticism of Israel's actions and you're trying to shut me down with accusations of antisemitism!"
So we have two things here:
1) The "Jews are guilt-tripping us about the Holocaust!" argument, though it's usually Jew haters who bring this up in the first place. I've never seen a "b-b-but the holocaust!" argument here.
2) The "As soon as I try to criticize Israel I get shut down with accusations of antisemitism!" argument, which is a laugh because sometimes, if one looks closely enough, one can actually find here criticism and debates about Israel that don't resort to 1) or 2).

Ugh. Not previewing.
 
2012-09-05 01:47:53 PM  

SkunkWerks: Gyrfalcon: It's nicer than invading

No, it really isn't. Ask anyone who's been on the brink of starving to death.


Wow, I guess nobody has had their second cup of coffee yet this morning. So okay:

I was making a sarcastic comment about how everyone is ready to invade Iran for no particular reason, and yet we refuse to invade N. Korea, where we have better reasons and possible justification; because after all one has nukes and could probably fight back and the other one doesn't. Ergo, we're being "nice" to Korea.

Now get down to Starbucks.
 
2012-09-05 01:48:38 PM  
Dinobot:

wow, bunch of people here are antisemitic* for wanting israel deal with his own shiat and not wanting the us to get dragged into this whole mess... i like that!

*antisemitic as per tats' personal dictionary...


I never met the guy, so I'm just gonna guess here, but I'm pretty sure that over time 90% of Tat's genes came from the tribes around his proud jewish ones.

You know... His fellow Semites.

Also, apropos of nothing, Anti apartheid does not equal anti-Jewish. And yes the word Zionist has a problem, with good reason.
 
2012-09-05 01:49:42 PM  
Yeah, we totally need to take a harder line than merely having the CIA sabotage Iran's nuclear facilities with a sophisticated computer virus. That was so farking weak.
 
2012-09-05 01:53:22 PM  

Lunaville: .....The wrong done to European Jews is one of the reasons that Israel needs to exist. In particular, I am moved by accounts of Jewish refugees, particularly Jewish children, who were denied admission to the United States during the holocaust. I find it ironic that a nation so many of our citizens like to label a "Christian" nation acted in such an un-Christian manner. (I don't approve of labeling the USA a Christian nation. I think all citizens regardless of faith or lack thereof are equally citizens and should be equally recognized.) I wonder how many of the fundamentalists that now purport to support Israel, right or wrong, would have cried out against accepting Jewish refugees when their need was greatest?.....


Guilt is not a valid reason for setting strategic foreign policy.
 
2012-09-05 01:55:01 PM  
We should start a war and kill a million people to keep a country that wont exist in 50 years happy with us. Infa 100%.
 
2012-09-05 01:55:44 PM  

JohnnyC: Hey Israel... Don't pick fights and expect your friends to fight them for you. It's a great way to lose friends.


Yeah, a few more decades of this and the US might start rolling their eyes at you!
 
2012-09-05 01:56:24 PM  
Israel can join Africa on the "Go F*ck Yourself" list.

Get your sh*t together.
 
2012-09-05 01:56:51 PM  

Lunaville: I can hardly believe this statement is coming from me, as I've always considered myself an adamant supporter of Israel, but it may time for Obama to take a tough public stand on Israels' shenanigans.


I'd say that Obama did in the form of having the Chariman of US Joint Chiefs of Staff publicly tell Israel we didn't have thier back if they attacked Iran

And isn't it interesting how quickly Israel started trying to "un-rattle" their sabre after he said that?

Sorry Israel, but the PNAC group is out of power now and we can't be buffaloed into invading countries you don;t like anymore
 
2012-09-05 01:57:09 PM  

indylaw: Dr Dreidel: Mugato: Porous Horace: But it's nice to see all the Jew hate, reminds me of why Israel is necessary.

This took a while. Usually the "anyone who says anything negative about our policies in Israel is an ANTI-SEMITE" shows up before the 5th post.

If you say "Jew" when you mean "Israeli", and conflate them in a negative context, what's a poor bagel-eater to think?

Your religious men devote their lives to studying a millenia-old book of old guys bickering back and forth about whether and how a piece of string around your town allows you to carry some kugel to your bubbe's house on Shabbos. I'm pretty sure the bagel-eaters can distinguish between criticism of Israeli policy and simple anti-Semitism in a mask.


Well, they can assume that when someone uses "Jews" to mean "Israelis", they're simply substituting one term for another. In that case, the conflator is wrong, as any number of Muslim and Christian Israelis (and atheist, and Baha'i, and Coptic...) can tell you. If that association is a negative one ("You Jews don't realize you're being Nazis to Palestinians!"), it's anti-Semitic. Not because we assume you want genocide - because you're ascribing a single trait to an entire group.

If you say "Israel wants X" in a negative political context - not anti-Semitic (Israel as a single geopolitical actor, same as the US or Iran or Russia).
If you say "The Jews want X" in a negative Israeli-political context - anti-Semitic (lumping a diverse group ideologically together).

Like saying "Blacks want X" when you mean "[The] Rwanda[n government] wants X".
 
2012-09-05 01:57:19 PM  

Porous Horace: They asking the US about something that is very important to them.
They would appreciate at the very least, a statement.
Other countries ask other countries for things all the time.
The US already has sanctions on Iran in place, who's doing was that?

I don't feel like repeating this, so it applies to the other, similar replies.
I made two statements.
One about what was said in the article and one reflecting on the importance of Israel for Jews, especially in light of the comments in this thread.
Criticism of Israel is not antisemitism.
The following, on the other hand is highly suspect.
"I'm sick of paying for Israel - so what if they got Holocausted, get over it! Dang Jews always bringing up the Holocaust as a guilt-trip for everything."
"That sounds rather antisemitic."
"No! I'm just putting forth an informed and well thought-out criticism of Israel's actions and you're trying to shut me down with accusations of antisemitism!"
So we have two things here:
1) The "Jews are guilt-tripping us about the Holocaust!" argument, though it's usually Jew haters who bring this up in the first place. I've never seen a "b-b-but the holocaust!" argument here.
2) The "As soon as I try to criticize Israel I get shut down with accusations of antisemitism!" argument, which is a laugh because sometimes, if one looks closely enough, one can actually find here criticism and debates about Israel that don't resort to 1) or 2).

Ugh. Not previewing.


Well, I'm not quite sure I understand why suggesting that the Israeli government plays on Holocaust angst is an anti-Semitic thing. You may disagree with that supposition. I happen to have heard a number of talking heads on American news shows (usually pro-Israeli Americans on the right) who say that allowing Iran to get nuclear weapons would be like allowing a second Holocaust. It doesn't seem to me that the complaint that Israel is appealing to Holocaust guilt is completely ludicrous. I certainly don't see how that complaint alone makes one a Jew-hater.
 
2012-09-05 01:59:10 PM  

karnal: Israel is the Democrats best kept secret....they have turned their backs on them, they removed a section of the Democrat 2008 platform that supported Israel over Hamas from the 2012 platform...Obama is in the process of remaking the Middle East in his own image through support of the Muslim Brotherhood, which underminds Israel....and yet, the majority of Jews in America vote Liberal.


Okay, serious question here. Are you a farking moron? No really, I would like to know. To sprout stuff that is so outside the realms of reality means you either a moron or a partisan hack lying their arse off and before I call you that, I need to know if there is a medical reason behind it that would at least explain some of those comments.
 
2012-09-05 01:59:24 PM  
Cythraul [TotalFark]

As far as my personal beliefs, hearing fundie Christians talk about how the U.S. needs to protect Israel because it is the site where Jesus comes back, or some other such lunacy, is all I need to make up my mind.


Oh bulls--t. I have never once hear that reason given. Not once. What a load of crap.
 
2012-09-05 02:01:00 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Ergo, we're being "nice" to Korea.


The suspicion of this being "sarcasm" is about the only way I can redeem you.

Gyrfalcon: Now get down to Starbucks.


Tastes like plastic. And you're talking to someone who isn't overly fond of coffee in general. Honestly not sure how you drink that stuff.
 
2012-09-05 02:02:05 PM  
AngryDragon

Lunaville: .....The wrong done to European Jews is one of the reasons that Israel needs to exist. In particular, I am moved by accounts of Jewish refugees, particularly Jewish children, who were denied admission to the United States during the holocaust. I find it ironic that a nation so many of our citizens like to label a "Christian" nation acted in such an un-Christian manner. (I don't approve of labeling the USA a Christian nation. I think all citizens regardless of faith or lack thereof are equally citizens and should be equally recognized.) I wonder how many of the fundamentalists that now purport to support Israel, right or wrong, would have cried out against accepting Jewish refugees when their need was greatest?.....


Guilt is not a valid reason for setting strategic foreign policy.



But it is ok to use guilt to set domestic policy?
 
2012-09-05 02:03:14 PM  

Dr Dreidel: If you say "The Jews want X" in a negative Israeli-political context - anti-Semitic (lumping a diverse group ideologically together).

Like saying "Blacks want X" when you mean "[The] Rwanda[n government] wants X".


If you're speaking about "The Jews" specifically in an Israeli-political context, wouldn't it be reasonable to infer that you're speaking about the government of the Jewish state? I understand that there are different political parties, but Israel is self-professedly a "Jewish state" and is often contrasted with "The Palestinians" or "The Arabs." I don't think those speakers are trying to claim that either Jewish people or Arab people are monolithic in their ideology. It's an unartful way of speaking, but I don't think it necessarily signals anti-Semitism (well, unless it says "The Jews are just trying to exert their control on the media, as usual" or something).
 
2012-09-05 02:04:00 PM  

Dr Dreidel: If you say "Israel wants X" in a negative political context - not anti-Semitic (Israel as a single geopolitical actor, same as the US or Iran or Russia).
If you say "The Jews want X" in a negative Israeli-political context - anti-Semitic (lumping a diverse group ideologically together).


Tell that to everyone who instantly screams "anti-Semite" if they detect any slight against Israeli policy. As far as I know Israel is the only country that gets to play the race card in that way.
 
2012-09-05 02:04:28 PM  

OnlyM3: Cythraul [TotalFark]

As far as my personal beliefs, hearing fundie Christians talk about how the U.S. needs to protect Israel because it is the site where Jesus comes back, or some other such lunacy, is all I need to make up my mind.

Oh bulls--t. I have never once hear that reason given. Not once. What a load of crap.


Sorry, my bad. I didn't know that since you've never head of it once that it couldn't be possible.
 
2012-09-05 02:04:57 PM  

Generation_D
Obama is courageous to stand up to the phony neocon arguments and the leftover cold war noise. Its predictable the neocons would ratchet up said noise, its all they have.


uh huh. Failed history so you're begging to repeat it.

Look how bat s--t cray this nation (Both R's and D's) went after 9/11 and ~3k people killed. From military actions, to throwing liberty on the fire, to ballooning of government spying on innocents.

Take a moment to imagine what is going to happen when something a bit more exciting >pops
We demand folks keep firearms from children and the insane, yet fark's jew bashing leftists want to allow groups who have flat out supported exterminating a race from the planet have the biggest stick on the block. Liberalism is a mental disorder.
 
2012-09-05 02:07:13 PM  
I suppose I am missing out on a fair and balanced presentation by refusing to click any Fox News link.
 
2012-09-05 02:07:32 PM  
Why is Israel so mad about Iran exercising their 2nd Amendment rights? Doesn't Israel know an armed society is a polite one?
 
2012-09-05 02:10:42 PM  

the_geek: MrBallou: Even if the did manage to make a bomb, it's not like they're the USSR with thousands of them and ICBMs to put them on. At most they could do 1/10 the damage done in any of the recent conventional wars around there and they have incentive not to. They know they would be hammered into the earth if they ever did. If they even want a bomb, they only want it for dick-waving purposes.

Having "the bomb" guarantees you won't be invaded. That's the only reason anyone wants one these days.


If that is true, it would make Israel's motive for objecting even more questionable.
 
2012-09-05 02:11:43 PM  

OnlyM3: yet fark's jew bashing leftists want to allow groups who have flat out supported exterminating a race from the planet have the biggest stick on the block.


Not the biggest stick on the block. Not remotely.
 
2012-09-05 02:12:13 PM  
Mugato

I guess in your psychotic "OMG OBAMA SECRET MUSLIM" dreamworld you

For those times facts aren't on your side, you always have ad hominem.
 
2012-09-05 02:13:58 PM  

OnlyM3: For those times facts aren't on your side, you always have ad hominem.


Or makin' stuff up. Pretty sure that's still an option.
 
2012-09-05 02:15:46 PM  

OnlyM3: Mugato

I guess in your psychotic "OMG OBAMA SECRET MUSLIM" dreamworld you
For those times facts aren't on your side, you always have ad hominem.


I followed that with a direct fact.

SkunkWerks: Or makin' stuff up. Pretty sure that's still an option.


What did I make up?
 
2012-09-05 02:16:39 PM  

indylaw: If you're speaking about "The Jews" specifically in an Israeli-political context, wouldn't it be reasonable to infer that you're speaking about the government of the Jewish state? I understand that there are different political parties, but Israel is self-professedly a "Jewish state" and is often contrasted with "The Palestinians" or "The Arabs." I don't think those speakers are trying to claim that either Jewish people or Arab people are monolithic in their ideology. It's an unartful way of speaking, but I don't think it necessarily signals anti-Semitism (well, unless it says "The Jews are just trying to exert their control on the media, as usual" or something).


And I'm saying that's a misnomer, regardless of founding documents. I also don't think it necessarily signals anti-Semitism (as you and I both point out).

There are lots of non-Jewish Israelis, and plenty of non-Israeli Jews. Even within Israel, the diversity of opinion among Jews is HUGE - from crazy Haredim (even those that aren't repressive) to atheist hippies - so I just see calling the actions of the Israeli government "Jewish actions" as being misleading and likely (and needlessly) inflammatory.

Israel does not speak for all Jews, same as Lebanon (a country where the president, by law, must be a Maronite Christian) speaks for all Christians (Maronite or otherwise). So what if Israel is a Jewish country - it's not THE Jewish country (the only Jewish one, yes, but not the only place physically or ideologically that Jews may reside).

OnlyM3: fark's jew bashing leftists


YER NOT HELPIN

// they're "fark's ISRAELI-bashing leftists" - get it right
 
2012-09-05 02:26:23 PM  

Mugato: What did I make up?


Nothing. As in: not referring to you. Probably referring to most of the Right's talking points in general.
 
2012-09-05 02:27:29 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Even within Israel, the diversity of opinion among Jews is HUGE


This is why I'm careful to point out that my beef is with right wingers. Nation/ethnicity/religion generally doesn't come in to play. Though there is a lot of crossover with right wing/religion which is a bit of a landmine when discussing Israel. But this is why I don't think religions should sully themselves with secular politics.
 
2012-09-05 02:30:12 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Dr Dreidel: Even within Israel, the diversity of opinion among Jews is HUGE

This is why I'm careful to point out that my beef is with right wingers. Nation/ethnicity/religion generally doesn't come in to play. Though there is a lot of crossover with right wing/religion which is a bit of a landmine when discussing Israel. But this is why I don't think religions should sully themselves with secular politics.


YER NOT...the problem. :)

And I concur with the bolded part - religion and government are not chocolate/peanut butter; they're dynamite/lit match.
 
2012-09-05 02:30:27 PM  
So options:
1) Sanctions: In place, fairly heavy at this point, moderate enforcement which beats a lot of sanction policies.

2) Invade: The logical would be slash and burn style I doubt America would do it as it would pretty much condemn the region to mass famine and be very similar to a genocide campaign. The influx of refugees and resulting power vacuum would pretty much render the region a patchwork of warlords with the resulting terrorist organizations would find nearly limitless recruitment. Today lots yell about blowing America up, fewer are ready to stand there next to the bomb. This would increase that number heavily. Alternatively, try yet another regime change. Those haven't been working out all that great. I'd give them a 3-4 on the 10 scale for successes in recent years. Plus expensive.

3) Bomb heavily: Problem is it is very hard to confirm damage of underground facilities. You really aren't positive you did what you thought you did. Short of nuking their population centers and rendering facilities useless due to death of all support functions (power, water, food, medical) that a country provides the damage can postpone but not stop. Buys a few years and kicks the can down the road. Costly as well and another solution would have to be found. Plus you've really pissed them off- count on them continuing just out of anger.

4) Accept they're going to get it in the end if they're determined. Keep up low cost/passive stances that slow down, cripple and destabilize as much as possible to contain and make the process very costly to them and move on. Maybe if it takes them long enough and cost is high enough they abandon it. Not likely though.

So. What we're getting to is either another war or what we're doing now.

Personally I'd make a mint if there was another war/occupation. Not sure it really is a great idea from a long term perspective though. So play to the short game or the long one. Also how important is it to be the police force for the world?
 
2012-09-05 02:30:57 PM  
Libtard Logic is mindblowing.

img687.imageshack.us
 
2012-09-05 02:36:03 PM  

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Libtard Logic is mindblowing.

[img687.imageshack.us image 507x600]


Thank you so much for contributing to the conversation.
 
2012-09-05 02:38:04 PM  

indylaw: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Libtard Logic is mindblowing.

[img687.imageshack.us image 507x600]

Thank you so much for contributing to the conversation.


He is so proud of adding text over a photo he put his whole name on it.
 
2012-09-05 02:41:16 PM  
It's an election year, so it's understandable that the incumbent doesn't want to put himself on the record as for or against a war.
But not taking a position is also a position.

He's forming a habit of only going after the targets of his predecessors, and stalling on other situations untill they've practically decided themselves.
That can be interpreted as weakness, and weakness can goad either the Israelis or Iranians into doing something regrettable.

At some point, Obama needs to take the helm because he is still going to get the blame.
 
2012-09-05 02:43:02 PM  

Vodka Zombie: Can we please stop sending money to Israel and let them fight their wars alone?


farking Aye!
 
2012-09-05 02:47:37 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Dr Dreidel: Even within Israel, the diversity of opinion among Jews is HUGE

This is why I'm careful to point out that my beef is with right wingers. Nation/ethnicity/religion generally doesn't come in to play. Though there is a lot of crossover with right wing/religion which is a bit of a landmine when discussing Israel. But this is why I don't think religions should sully themselves with secular politics.


This is the case with most people who aren't fond of Israel's conduct, in my opinion. I know it is the case for me as well. I don't care what someone's religious belief is, I care about their behavior. I don't even care if they call themselves a conservative or liberal or whatever, again it's simply about the behavior.

Claiming that a dislike of Israeli policy automatically means that person hates Jewish people isn't an honest or warranted claim. They know that, but they also know that racism and/or bigotry is viewed by most as an abhorrent character flaw. They think it undermines the disagreement with the policy because it invokes an irrational dislike as opposed to a rational one.

The reality is that it is their behavior, not their religious beliefs or bloodline, that most people seem to have a problem with.
 
2012-09-05 02:50:25 PM  

way south: At some point, Obama needs to take the helm because he is still going to get the blame.


He has the helm. Holding steady is sometimes more prudent. Sometimes cooler heads prevail there Mr. ItchyTriggerFinger.
 
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