Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: If they wanted to be careful, they'd have joined the Coast Guard.
alienated: We could try all of them anywhere in the us. and we should. Are we that weak we cannot handle the trial of what, 500 people ? I think we have murder trials by that count a year in some cites here .at least in a state.
BullBearMS: All you have to do is admit that we never had any intention whatsoever of taking this guy captive.
Science_Guy_3.14159: Believe it or not most military people, enlisted men and officers, are quite humble and disciplined and get quite upset when they see another soldier that isn't.
alienated: BullBearMS: Then we either charge the people in Gitmo (and our other political prisons in places like Bagram, Afghanistan) with crimes or we let them go. Just as the rule of law requires.Agreed. But, to be perfectly honest- i am really dfrunk and also i do not see how they can get a trial if nobody lets them have one.
alienated: go ahead, armchair special ops types, tell me i am wrong, but please- include your class number so i can prove you are not, nor have even been a real specop
ZipSplat: The National Guard was shiat. Worst decision I ever made. Those lazy, fat pieces of shiat - I couldn't believe the stuff that went on there. Contrasted with the Marine Corps I don't even consider them to be part of the military.
ZipSplat: Blackwater does PSD and logistics support. You're really defining down the term "mercenary" if you apply it to them. And no, "merc organizations" - I don't know what shiatty B-movie taught you to refer to them as that - do not carry out the Marine Corps' mission unless you're counting PSD for diplomats.
propasaurus: "Why didn't Obama close Gitmo like he promised?"
BullBearMS: People should take some time to read this:
BullBearMS: However, England, Spain, and India somehow managed to give public trials in a court of law to the people behind their recent terrorist attacks. I'm pretty sure if they can manage it, we can too. We're supposed to be all about the rule of law here in America.
alienated: What Science_Guy_3.14159 said. Most SF types tend to keep a low, low profile and not, well, brag and crap or write a book until at least 30 years after the fact of an op. UCMJ and all, and stuff go ahead, armchair special ops types, tell me i am wrong, but please- include your class number so i can prove you are not, nor have even been a real specop
KiplingKat872: Callous: And by "More like" you mean completely different from. Neither Manning or Owen were members of the respective administrations so your comparison doesn't fit.Well, your statement was nonsensical to begin with since these leaks really did not make Obama look bad and no one is suggesting anyone be court martialed.
BronyMedic: alienated: go ahead, armchair special ops types, tell me i am wrong, but please- include your class number so i can prove you are not, nor have even been a real specopMy Grandfather was enlisted Naval Intelligence in Vietnam, and served on the Camp David security staff. (I have his white house medals and service records to prove it. Along with some really interesting gifts from Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Johnson's staff)He taught me a really valuable lesson that I still hold onto today when dealing with people who claim to have been in the "Special Forces" of any branch: The ones that actually were don't brag about it for the most part. They either don't want you to know, or don't like to talk about it.
Callous: So the moral of this story is if George Bush is in office and you release classified information that makes him look bad you're a whistle blowing hero a la Bradley Manning. But if Barak Obama is in office and you release classified information that makes him look bad you're a leak and should go to Leavenworth.Glad to see the Fark double standard is still in full effect.
HotIgneous Intruder: But back on topic or something, Obama surely hasn't won the admiration of the special ops community.
dersk: So I don't think it has to do very much with being duped; did you have anything particular in mind?
fireclown: dersk: Maybe people are just smarter and more perceptive here.Nah. I've spent enough time in Europe to know better.
SkunkWerks: That said, I was pretty disappointed with the lot that was suggesting we not rebuild the WTC because of potential future terrorism. I was totally supportive of not just rebuilding it, but building it taller, and erecting four other bouldings in the immediate vicinity that would have produced what I like to call the "Bird of Freedom" salute to anyone coming in from off the coast.
HotIgneous Intruder: dersk: From where I'm sitting (Western Europe), the US reputation is MUCH better under Obama than it was under Bush.They don't know all that much about Romney other than 'rich businessman', and at least here the only stuff I've seen about Ryan was about how full of lies his speech was. Just what I've observed here in Holland.Obiwan duped the pants off Europe.
Publikwerks: Really, how has Obama done that?Please, link to a source where Obama said "I did it"Ever time I have heard Obama talk about it, he ALLWAYS mentions the heorics of the SEALs and the tireless work of the intellegence agents who tracked him down.Even the author of the book says Obama didn't take all the credit
vartian: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: If they wanted to be careful, they'd have joined the Coast Guard.The Coast Guard does an insane amount of dangerous shiat on a near daily basis.
maram500: Ivandrago: maram500: Science_Guy_3.14159: The Commander of the Naval Special Warfare Department tells the NAVY SEALS to show more discretion and be more humble... also not to brake the law and leak classified information. I don't see the problem with this. You do know every branch of the military has an unwritten rule that you can't wear your uniform if you aren't on base or on active duty, except at special events like parades, weddings and funerals. I think for the Marines this is an actual law they have to follow.Believe it or not most military people, enlisted men and officers, are quite humble and disciplined and get quite upset when they see another soldier that isn't.That's actually a written rule for the Marine Corps and the Navy. And I've tried making sense of the "Order of the Day" and what uniform can be worn when and where and...I had to drink. Too much regulation for a uniform, I think./Almost joined the Navy//Would have gone to OCS///Probably would be an O-3 by now////Oh wellIn the Army we wore our duty uniform all over town. When I lived with my sister, who was a Marine, she was always very annoyed that she couldn't stop off at the grocery store near her house after work because she wasn't allowed to do things off base in her uniform. She babbled something about respecting the uniform and ensuring civilians didn't see them doing anything improper while wearing it. Seemed silly to me, especially in a military town.This is [another reason ]why Marines > Army. Marines go in first, kick more ass, and have far more respect for the uniform than to wear it off-base./One of my best friends is a Marine//Lost his knee in Iraq///A hero to me////Not every person in uniform is automatically a hero, but thanks to you and your sister for serving
trotsky: I've seen stuff like this all over sites like Facebook and it's sickening that these shiatbags can twist a success into a partisan issue. What pisses me off the most is the use of "SEALS" who try to refute what happened and try to say Obama is taking all the credit. "SEALS" that haven't served in decades. "SEALS" who happen to be GOP shills.
Cauchy_Riemann_equations: Between General McChrystal's interview in Rolling Stone and the SEALs I think thee is a real sense of betrayal between the Commander in Chief and the military. From their point of view they take all the risk while politicians use them like a centerpiece at thanksgiving and then packed away until the next time they're useful.
CMYK and PMS: He has at least partially repaired the U.S.'s reputation and standing on the Global Stage Hardly, we are now seen as a country that will murder our own citizens around the world with no trial
KiplingKat872: If you look at the links I provided you will see they are engaging in military operations, not just body guard work.
SlothB77: "We do NOT advertise the nature of our work, NOR do we seek recognition for our actions,"that's left for the politicians to do. though, i will say the WH wasn't shy about coming out and releasing all these supposed details of the raid. None of those details ended up being true, but they sure as hell weren't humble.Obama is just mad he is about to be Swift Boated by these SEALS. Obama: this is your swift boat moment.
KiplingKat872: ZipSplat: Yeah, that in no way contradicts my statement, it just provides a blueprint of your ignorance. Yes, in PSD duties, people shoot people to protect their principle (usually a person, cargo, or a vulnerable area). That is not the same thing as the military engaging in offensive operations at the behest of the government to capture territory.You need to look at those links, they were deployed a combat zones.I'm sure the British brought in the Hessians "just to protect their supply lines."Mercenaries are mercenaries. Called them whatever fancy name you want, but in the end they are guns for hire. Get over it.
impaler: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: If they wanted to be careful, they'd have joined the Coast Guard.Way to shat on our servicemen, Republican scum.[www.uscg.mil image 560x315]Link
CMYK and PMS: It is Obama's only accomplishment
Science_Guy_3.14159: You do know every branch of the military has an unwritten rule-
BullBearMS: alienated: simplicimus: I think the problem is that any information from the prisoners is compromised by Bush's enhanced interrogation techniques. We're stuck with these prisoners.yer overthinking it. space them .How about we do something radical, like follow the rule of law.Prosecute those guilty of the enhanced interrogation techniques.We are party to international treaties that make this a requirement that we cannot legally ignore. Obama's "Look forward, not back on torture" is purest illegal bullshiat.Then we either charge the people in Gitmo (and our other political prisons in places like Bagram, Afghanistan) with crimes or we let them go. Just as the rule of law requires.
alienated: simplicimus: I think the problem is that any information from the prisoners is compromised by Bush's enhanced interrogation techniques. We're stuck with these prisoners.yer overthinking it. space them .
BullBearMS: propasaurus: "Why didn't Obama close Gitmo like he promised?"Obama never even tried to close Gitmo. He tried to move it onto US soil (where we would continue to hold people forever without even filing charges) as if the whole problem with Gitmo was that it was located in the Caribbean. Damned warm tropical breezes!In ordering the federal government to acquire an Illinois prison to house terrorism suspects who are currently held at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, President Obama on Tuesday took a major step toward shutting down the military detention facility that its detractors say had become a potent recruitment tool for Al Qaeda.Administration officials acknowledged that the move would require Congressional approval, since Congress now bars Guantánamo detainees from being brought onto American soil unless they face prosecution, and some of the detainees may be indefinitely confined without being tried.Holding people forever without even charging them with a crime is the problem. Not that it's happening in Cuba. Moving Gitmo onto US soil does not fix the problem.Here's what the ACLU had to say:The following can be attributed to Anthony D. Romero, Executive Director of the ACLU:"The creation of a 'Gitmo North' in Illinois is hardly a meaningful step forward. Shutting down Guantánamo will be nothing more than a symbolic gesture if we continue its lawless policies onshore."Alarmingly, all indications are that the administration plans to continue its predecessor's policy of indefinite detention without charge or trial for some detainees, with only a change of location. Such a policy is completely at odds with our democratic commitment to due process and human rights whether it's occurring in Cuba or in Illinois. In fact, while the Obama administration inherited the Guantánamo debacle, this current move is its own affirmative adoption of those policies. It is unimaginable that the Obama administration is using the same justification as the Bush administration ...
BronyMedic: BullBearMS: All you have to do is admit that we never had any intention whatsoever of taking this guy captive.And I'm perfectly ok with this. I doubt we'd have taken Hitler alive either.
themindiswatching: They also didn't contaminate most of their evidence by torturing detainees and holding them for years without trial.
alienated: BullBearMS: All you have to do is admit that we never had any intention whatsoever of taking this guy captive.well, duh. What could we have done ? I mean, besides making a stain on the walls out of him. Could we, even as a nation ruled by law, had a trial ? I am not being facetious here.I see no other solution except his summary execution. armed or not is immaterial at this point. Laden was a cancer and needed to be excised . By any and all means at our disposal. Cold ? yep. I would have done the same to McViegh, given the chance.
alienated: Cubansaltyballs: This guy wants his millions, and the DoD will likely take his money, but I sense he was also angling for a Fox News job or a role on the Republican speaking circuit.Ha. Indeed. I can see it now- Coming to you, live from Fort Leavenworth ....
Cubansaltyballs: This guy wants his millions, and the DoD will likely take his money, but I sense he was also angling for a Fox News job or a role on the Republican speaking circuit.
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