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(NBC News)   Commander of Naval Special Warfare Command tells Navy SEALS to shut the hell up. "For an Elite Force that should be humble and disciplined for life, we are certainly not appearing to be so"   (usnews.nbcnews.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, elite force, NSW, Navy SEALs, Dutton, military base, military officials, Jeh Johnson, commanders  
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12609 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Sep 2012 at 6:43 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-05 10:29:33 AM  

dersk: liam76: dersk: I think we Americans are just kind of cowardly. I much rather would've seen bin Laden and all the rest on trial than killed or indefinitely detained. I mean, we're trying to show that our system is superior, right

That is pretty ballsy.

I am guessing you have plenty of experience in taking people alive who would rather go down fighting, and in ordering peopel to do so, right?

What's that got to do with whether or not we try people? With bin Laden, sure - we didn't know exactly what to expect inside the compound, so it's understandable to shoot first . I was thinking more of the Gitmo detainees.


Well now you are saying, "With bin Laden, sure" but that wasn't what you intitially said.

I agree once we have them we should try them, but I have no problem with drone strkies or the like to take out "the rest".
 
2012-09-05 10:29:34 AM  

Speaker2Animals: WTF are you blubbering about? OK, so there were differences in the reports about exactly what happened. Have you ever in your life managed to read and understand a single word of a book about military history? In case they're beyond your comprehension, here's a little cheat sheet: "Early battlefield reports sometimes are inaccurate and subject to later revision. Rinse and repeat a million times throughout recorded history."


Uh, they were watching it live. You don't think things might have improved a bit in that regard.
 
2012-09-05 10:29:46 AM  

ChuDogg: Unlike most i've worked with PMCs during the height of the "omfg mercenaries!" scare. It's humerous to see these mostly left leaning civil servants, government aid agencies, international NGOs, UN and Nato officials, and hell, even the same journalists printing these mercenary stories, they might disparage blackwater but when they need to drive through a dangerous area they are the first ones to hire them.


That's the nut of it, isn't it?
The fact that policy has brought us to the place where in order to execute it we have to do the wrong thing should be enough to change that policy. If it's so dangerous to drive around that you need a cordon of mercenaries to protect you, you're doing it wrong.
 
2012-09-05 10:34:58 AM  

fusillade762: Mentat: That swift boat sure ran aground, didn't it?

I'm getting a whiff of an election season hit piece myself. Though of course it could simply be an attention whoring money grab.


Why can't be both. Two birds and all...,
 
2012-09-05 10:35:47 AM  

liam76: dersk: liam76: dersk: I think we Americans are just kind of cowardly. I much rather would've seen bin Laden and all the rest on trial than killed or indefinitely detained. I mean, we're trying to show that our system is superior, right

That is pretty ballsy.

I am guessing you have plenty of experience in taking people alive who would rather go down fighting, and in ordering peopel to do so, right?

What's that got to do with whether or not we try people? With bin Laden, sure - we didn't know exactly what to expect inside the compound, so it's understandable to shoot first . I was thinking more of the Gitmo detainees.

Well now you are saying, "With bin Laden, sure" but that wasn't what you intitially said.

I agree once we have them we should try them, but I have no problem with drone strkies or the like to take out "the rest".


I thought I said with bin Laden that 'I would have preferred' - and he is a special case. I sure hope - but don't really expect - that we've been more carefully vetting people we kill than the people we toss into Gitmo. There sure seem to be a lot of false positives there.
 
2012-09-05 10:36:04 AM  
I'd like to make a point that has been obvious to me for many years but seems to be missed by many fine American citizens. Any and all information released by military sources has been adjusted to meet the needs of the military. It's called propaganda. In this Bin Laden case, it was mostly doctored to make OSB look like an ahole to his constituancy. This was an attempt to prevent OSB from becoming a cause for more terrorism against the United States.

The Pat Tillman friendly fire case was an episode of military propaganda coverup designed to hide a very tragic friendly fire death and, at the same time, produce an American war hero to shore up support from American citizens. Both were useful goals for the military.

If we are going to roast Obama for the misinformation campaign surrounding the death of OSB, perhaps we should retroactively roast W for the Tillman affair. Personally, I'm very happy OSB is no longer with us. Pat Tillman's death was a terrible tragedy but it has led to efforts to reduce friendly fire episodes.
 
2012-09-05 10:36:04 AM  

dersk: From where I'm sitting (Western Europe), the US reputation is MUCH better under Obama than it was under Bush.
They don't know all that much about Romney other than 'rich businessman', and at least here the only stuff I've seen about Ryan was about how full of lies his speech was. Just what I've observed here in Holland.


Obiwan duped the pants off Europe.
 
2012-09-05 10:37:26 AM  

trappedspirit: Uh, they were watching it live. You don't think things might have improved a bit in that regard.


as insane as that it is, it is still worthwhile to take a few hours to sort through what happened. Early assessments are inevitably flawed.
 
2012-09-05 10:42:23 AM  

dersk: Publikwerks:
I dunno. I think trying to put UBL on trial would have lead to more terrorism. Look at Munich, when terrorists took hostages to get the members of black September released. I bet Al Qaeda would have done something similar.

I imagine so - but I think al Qaeda's pretty much droned out at this point. It'd probably be one offs, but still - so what? We shouldn't act like America because there might be a terrorist attack? Personally, I'd be happy to triple the chances that I die as a civilian in a terrorist attack in order to maintain America.


Well, first off - I think it was a good kill. I think, as I said above, at that part of the raid, their cover was blown and they had taken fire. At that point, I have no issue with taking no chances.

Secondly, this was in another country with someone we were at war with. He was an enemy combatant, and made no effort to surrender. So a different set of rules apply. Had this been in the United States or if he surrendered, and still got shot, that would be one thing. But war has different rules, and just like a German poking his head out of a trench and get shot in WWI, Bin Ladin stuck his head out of a doorway, and the SEALs reacted.
 
2012-09-05 10:44:40 AM  

fireclown: trappedspirit: Uh, they were watching it live. You don't think things might have improved a bit in that regard.

as insane as that it is, it is still worthwhile to take a few hours to sort through what happened. Early assessments are inevitably flawed.


According to the book, they were watching footage from a drone, and it wasn't very good(The Chalk 1 blackhawk crashed, but apparently, they thought it landed in DC because the footage was grainy)
 
2012-09-05 10:50:08 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: dersk: From where I'm sitting (Western Europe), the US reputation is MUCH better under Obama than it was under Bush.
They don't know all that much about Romney other than 'rich businessman', and at least here the only stuff I've seen about Ryan was about how full of lies his speech was. Just what I've observed here in Holland.

Obiwan duped the pants off Europe.


Maybe people are just smarter and more perceptive here.
 
2012-09-05 10:50:21 AM  

dersk: We shouldn't act like America because there might be a terrorist attack?


Hrm, "act like America".

I rather imagine people might be led to think that could mean a lot of different things- depending on who you were and what you think "America" is exactly.

That said, I was pretty disappointed with the lot that was suggesting we not rebuild the WTC because of potential future terrorism. I was totally supportive of not just rebuilding it, but building it taller, and erecting four other bouldings in the immediate vicinity that would have produced what I like to call the "Bird of Freedom" salute to anyone coming in from off the coast.
 
2012-09-05 10:54:27 AM  

SkunkWerks: dersk: We shouldn't act like America because there might be a terrorist attack?

Hrm, "act like America".

I rather imagine people might be led to think that could mean a lot of different things- depending on who you were and what you think "America" is exactly.


True, but you know what I mean. The America we pretend to be about - rule of law, due process, freedoms, ad nauseum.
 
2012-09-05 10:56:13 AM  

dersk: Maybe people are just smarter and more perceptive here.


Nah. I've spent enough time in Europe to know better.
 
2012-09-05 11:03:02 AM  

SkunkWerks: That said, I was pretty disappointed with the lot that was suggesting we not rebuild the WTC because of potential future terrorism. I was totally supportive of not just rebuilding it, but building it taller, and erecting four other bouldings in the immediate vicinity that would have produced what I like to call the "Bird of Freedom" salute to anyone coming in from off the coast.


I wanted them to rebuild it EXACTLY as it was. Ok, make improvements and apply leasons learned. But at the end of the day, when people looked at the NY skyline, I wanted them to see the twin towers, standing defiantly.
 
2012-09-05 11:03:22 AM  

impaler: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: If they wanted to be careful, they'd have joined the Coast Guard.

Way to shat on our servicemen, Republican scum.

[www.uscg.mil image 560x315]
Link


THIS. My grandfather, a WWII combat verteran, could never figure out how the GOP managed to snag the position of party-of-the-troops/military given how often their actual opinion of the troops is exposed. The Purple Heart bandaids at the 2004 convention were so offensive to me that I can fully imagine never voting Republican again in my life because of it.
 
2012-09-05 11:09:08 AM  

fireclown: dersk: Maybe people are just smarter and more perceptive here.

Nah. I've spent enough time in Europe to know better.


Well, there is a lot less nationalistic derp here, but I think specifically:
- They prefer Obama to Bush because Obama seems like someone you can work with to solve a problem
- They perceive Obama to be more financially responsible than the Republicans
- They wonder why the hell it took us so long to put in place health care, even in its crippled state, and think the conservative response to it is insane
- They don't think Obama is as likely to drag the rest of the Western world into a war as Bush was, and as Romney's perceived to be in the case of Iran
- They're fairly horrified by the Republican attitude towards gays

So I don't think it has to do very much with being duped; did you have anything particular in mind?
 
2012-09-05 11:10:31 AM  

dersk: HotIgneous Intruder: dersk: From where I'm sitting (Western Europe), the US reputation is MUCH better under Obama than it was under Bush.
They don't know all that much about Romney other than 'rich businessman', and at least here the only stuff I've seen about Ryan was about how full of lies his speech was. Just what I've observed here in Holland.

Obiwan duped the pants off Europe.

Maybe people are just smarter and more perceptive here.


Yeah. I voted for him once. Never again.
I lived in Germany for eight years, so no, it's not that.
 
2012-09-05 11:16:18 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: dersk: HotIgneous Intruder: dersk: From where I'm sitting (Western Europe), the US reputation is MUCH better under Obama than it was under Bush.
They don't know all that much about Romney other than 'rich businessman', and at least here the only stuff I've seen about Ryan was about how full of lies his speech was. Just what I've observed here in Holland.

Obiwan duped the pants off Europe.

Maybe people are just smarter and more perceptive here.

Yeah. I voted for him once. Never again.
I lived in Germany for eight years, so no, it's not that.


The density of Deutsche rednecks is pretty shocking.
 
2012-09-05 11:26:20 AM  

dersk: So I don't think it has to do very much with being duped; did you have anything particular in mind?


Obama has governed measurably to the right of Richard Nixon.
His geopolitik is effectively no different from Bush II, as the fun continues in southwest Asia, Gitmo parties on, eavesdropping and domestic intelligence collection continues unabated (link here), Homeland security parties on, the war on drugs continues to feed the prison-industrial complex humans.
His social rhetoric is hopeful and sounds very liberal, but he has done nothing differently with respect to the banking system or Wall Street's systematic robbery of American wealth. Hey, it's not illegal, right?
His attorney general has supplied weapons to Mexican drug cartels and clamped down on whistle blowers (see link above) much more aggressively than Bush II ever did.
He walks like a liberal and quacks like a liberal, but he acts like a neoliberal of the Chicago School; therefore nothing has changed here in the states for anyone from the upper middle class on down. Wages are still eroding, inflation has been adjusted so as not to be apparent, and unemployment is down because so many people have just quit looking for work.
The United States is a labor camp of debt service built on a service economy.
And the lame Obamacare health insurance thing? Heh. Don't get sick or stung by a scorpion, is all I can say about that.

People don't think Rmoney can win, but I think he can, simply because Obama has been such a weak president, probably the weakest in my lifetime, and Citizen's United effectively put a knife in the neck of what credibility the electoral system ever had. You would not believe the density of the negative anti-Obama ads on the airwaves here. And that shiat works and it will work and this is only September.
 
2012-09-05 11:28:01 AM  

dersk: HotIgneous Intruder: dersk: HotIgneous Intruder: dersk: From where I'm sitting (Western Europe), the US reputation is MUCH better under Obama than it was under Bush.
They don't know all that much about Romney other than 'rich businessman', and at least here the only stuff I've seen about Ryan was about how full of lies his speech was. Just what I've observed here in Holland.

Obiwan duped the pants off Europe.

Maybe people are just smarter and more perceptive here.

Yeah. I voted for him once. Never again.
I lived in Germany for eight years, so no, it's not that.

The density of Deutsche rednecks is pretty shocking.


True enough.
 
2012-09-05 11:29:04 AM  

Cauchy_Riemann_equations: I think there is a real problem with the military right now.

Between General McChrystal's interview in Rolling Stone and the SEALs I think thee is a real sense of betrayal between the Commander in Chief and the military. From their point of view they take all the risk while politicians use them like a centerpiece at thanksgiving and then packed away until the next time they're useful.

It's not good.


No, it's exactly how it should be. That's why roles and payscales have been very exactly defined. People are free in that as well.
 
2012-09-05 11:34:55 AM  
HotIgneous Intruder
Obama has governed measurably to the right of Richard Nixon.
His geopolitik is effectively no different from Bush II, as the fun continues in southwest Asia, Gitmo parties on, eavesdropping and domestic intelligence collection continues unabated (link here), Homeland security parties on, the war on drugs continues to feed the prison-industrial complex humans.
His social rhetoric is hopeful and sounds very liberal, but he has done nothing differently with respect to the banking system or Wall Street's systematic robbery of American wealth. Hey, it's not illegal, right?
His attorney general has supplied weapons to Mexican drug cartels and clamped down on whistle blowers (see link above) much more aggressively than Bush II ever did.
He walks like a liberal and quacks like a liberal, but he acts like a neoliberal of the Chicago School; therefore nothing has changed here in the states for anyone from the upper middle class on down. Wages are still eroding, inflation has been adjusted so as not to be apparent, and unemployment is down because so many people have just quit looking for work.
The United States is a labor camp of debt service built on a service economy.
And the lame Obamacare health insurance thing? Heh. Don't get sick or stung by a scorpion, is all I can say about that.


It sure will be awesome when Romney gets into office and fixes all those things that Obama screwed up, won't it. I've been reading all Romney's policy plans about how he's going to do this. What? Romney doesn't have any plans about anything..........we're supposed to just trust him? Trust Mitt Romney? Are you shiatting me?
 
2012-09-05 11:37:46 AM  

pissnmoan: It sure will be awesome when Romney gets into office and fixes all those things that Obama screwed up, won't it. I've been reading all Romney's policy plans about how he's going to do this. What? Romney doesn't have any plans about anything..........we're supposed to just trust him? Trust Mitt Romney? Are you shiatting me?


Well no.
That's my point.
They're ALL clowns. Comparing Rmoney to Obama is as bad a comparing Obama to Eisenhower.
But back on topic or something, Obama surely hasn't won the admiration of the special ops community.
 
2012-09-05 11:41:15 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: But back on topic or something, Obama surely hasn't won the admiration of the special ops community.


Has any president in the last 20 years? People freakin' quit special ops rather than deal with the clusterfark of the "Coalition of the Willing."

Hell, you can go back to the Americans Civil War and find soldier at all level complaining about politicians. That's the way of it when one group of people is being ordered to die by people sitting behind safe comfy desks.
 
2012-09-05 11:59:43 AM  

pissnmoan: Romney doesn't have any plans about anything..........we're supposed to just trust him?


Romney Energy Plan Or you could, you know, go looking.
 
2012-09-05 12:02:06 PM  
All I know is the Commander has given the order for navy seals to shut the hell up and be humble so I had better start seeing some navy seals flucking shutting the good god damn hell up and busting out with some mother flarking humble ass attitude ASAP!!
 
2012-09-05 12:02:29 PM  

fireclown: pissnmoan: Romney doesn't have any plans about anything..........we're supposed to just trust him?

Romney Energy Plan Or you could, you know, go looking.


In short, rape the environment while make the same soft promises bout renewable energy Obama did.
 
2012-09-05 12:07:31 PM  

BullBearMS: The major reason for political butthurt over this book seems to be that this guy says the mission was a lot more about kill than about "kill or capture".

"No Easy Day," the new pseudonymous book revealed to be by Navy SEAL Mark Bissonnette, claims that Osama bin Laden was unarmed when shot at his Abbottabad compound last May. That's another key discrepancy in a story that's already changed several times since the initial days after Obama, to much acclaim, announced the killing of the Al Qaeda leader.

If you remember, the initial story was that when Bin Laden was shot, he was firing weapons while hiding behind one of his wives who he used as a human shield.


Whether or not he was visibly holding a weapon in his hands is irrelevant - the only question would be "Did he immediately attempt to surrender?" If not, then of course he was going to get shot. That's kind of how military encounters between hostile parties work.
 
2012-09-05 12:11:38 PM  

Publikwerks: BullBearMS: The major reason for political butthurt over this book seems to be that this guy says the mission was a lot more about kill than about "kill or capture".

"No Easy Day," the new pseudonymous book revealed to be by Navy SEAL Mark Bissonnette, claims that Osama bin Laden was unarmed when shot at his Abbottabad compound last May. That's another key discrepancy in a story that's already changed several times since the initial days after Obama, to much acclaim, announced the killing of the Al Qaeda leader.

If you remember, the initial story was that when Bin Laden was shot, he was firing weapons while hiding behind one of his wives who he used as a human shield.

I read the book last night, and I think in context they went in with kill or capture, but a few things made them switch to just kill mode.

1. Chalk 1(the blackhawk the author rode on to UBL compound) crashed
2. The courier in the guest house opened fire.

After that, everyone in the compound knew that there was armed forces there. So I have no issue with them talk little to no chances. If UBL(SEALs used the CIA spelling Usama) wanted to surrender, he could have. But he didn't, and I don't fault the SEALs for not giving him more than one chance to surrender.

However, I did pick up some things that I need not know. Like how they mark rooms they have cleared with infrared chem lights. Or about how reliant they are on NVGs. They use IR lasers because they assume the other side isn't using NVG at all. If I was an insurgent, I would pick up a cheap sony handy cam, and if you see a bunch of ir beans moving around, you know where the SEALs are.


Thanks for chiming in since you actually read the book, which I am guessing nobody else here has yet (mysefl included).

As far as the 2 items you listed as being possibly helpful to an insurgent/enemy combatent, I didn't know about the chem lights used as markers, but the fact that troops us IR laser sites is something every single infantyman in the US Army knows, and as far as I know there isn't anything at all limiting that knowledge. In basic training all infantry learn to use NVG, including a night-fire exercise where you have to shoot targets using NVGs w/IR laser mounted on the rifle in the middle of the night.

I can't imagine that the insurgents we are after haven't wised up to our tactic of striking at night.
 
2012-09-05 12:13:09 PM  

KiplingKat872: soft promises


While I'm no friend of Romney's, if you interpret promises made during campaign season as anything more substantial than, say, cheesecloth, you might be naive.
 
2012-09-05 12:13:53 PM  
fireclown
Romney Energy Plan Or you could, you know, go looking.

I stand corrected. Just a question--Is Stephen King now acting as Mitt Romney's energy advisor? That is a horror story. How about some more detailed policy references.
 
2012-09-05 12:14:54 PM  

SkunkWerks: While I'm no friend of Romney's, if you interpret promises made during campaign season as anything more substantial than, say, cheesecloth, you might be naive.


Oh I don't. I was refuting the idea that somehow Romney's "plan" was better than Obama's.
 
2012-09-05 12:27:00 PM  
SEALS should have a limit of 50 miles or less from an ocean to operate in.
 
2012-09-05 12:34:38 PM  
Ooooh... Navy Seals!

cdn.chud.com
 
2012-09-05 12:38:47 PM  
kyrg
SEALS should have a limit of 50 miles or less from an ocean to operate in.

I don't think the SEALS need much help (meaning restrictions) from us on doing their jobs. Thankfully, much of their training covers dry land operations. I look at the SEALS as a great military economizer. They go in and get it done. They save us from much more costly military efforts to reach a military/political goal.
 
2012-09-05 12:43:46 PM  

dersk: Magorn: The Difference is, the attackers in Britian and India were citizens of those countries who actually carried out the attacks. Osama was a foriegn national who effectively declared war on the US and was the active head of a military organization planning further attacks. That makes him a military target, not a civilian lawbreaker

I'm pretty sure that several of the Mumbai attackers were Pakistani; at the very least they received a *lot* of support from the ISI. And one of the London bombers was Jamaican.

I think we Americans are just kind of cowardly. I much rather would've seen bin Laden and all the rest on trial than killed or indefinitely detained. I mean, we're trying to show that our system is superior, right?


As a lawyer myself, I do tend to agree with you that demonstrating our commitment to the rule of law is a good and desirable thing like we did with Massoui and the origninal WTC bombers. But In this case I think they mission to kill him was far more effective in breaking the enemy's spirit ,a nd diplomatically and politically a smarter move. Leaving aside the fact that the American people would never have accepted any verdict except guilty and any sentence other than execution (which reduces any trial to a mere show trial) and the potential that had to turn OBL into a martyr; there is also the diplomatic angle to consider. Even Arabs, and in particular Saudis who didn't support bin Laden would have still balked at the idea of him being tired and executed by a Western country. The pressure on the royal house of Saud to demand custody of "one of their own" would have been enoromous and had the potential to destabilize their country, and in Pakistan? it would have been even MORE intense because of the potent combination of radical islamist Jihadi sentiment and fierce nationalism.

Far better to show AL-q that none of their leaders are safe, that the US can reach into anywhere at anytime like the Hand of God and simply erase them from existance, leaving not even a body to mourn. That's a seriously demoralizing proposition for its senior leadership.
 
2012-09-05 12:46:18 PM  

pissnmoan: I don't think the SEALS need much help (meaning restrictions) from us on doing their jobs. Thankfully, much of their training covers dry land operations. I look at the SEALS as a great military economizer. They go in and get it done. They save us from much more costly military efforts to reach a military/political goal.


Exactly, plus basing their operations from naval vessels means they have more rapid deployment times across the globe.

Speaking solely as an armchair general who has studied a little military history, in today's asymmetrical warfare, I think that special forces are a much better way to go than massive troop movements, at least once you get out beyond cities. You can excise a cancer much more effectively with a scalpel than with a club.
 
2012-09-05 12:58:58 PM  
So the moral of this story is if George Bush is in office and you release classified information that makes him look bad you're a whistle blowing hero a la Bradley Manning. But if Barak Obama is in office and you release classified information that makes him look bad you're a leak and should go to Leavenworth.

Glad to see the Fark double standard is still in full effect.
 
2012-09-05 01:01:21 PM  

Callous: So the moral of this story is if George Bush is in office and you release classified information that makes him look bad you're a whistle blowing hero a la Bradley Manning. But if Barak Obama is in office and you release classified information that makes him look bad you're a leak and should go to Leavenworth.

Glad to see the Fark double standard is still in full effect.


More like "if Bush is in office and someone in that administration leaks classified information exposing a CIA agent, they should get off scott free."
 
2012-09-05 01:12:09 PM  

KiplingKat872: Callous: So the moral of this story is if George Bush is in office and you release classified information that makes him look bad you're a whistle blowing hero a la Bradley Manning. But if Barak Obama is in office and you release classified information that makes him look bad you're a leak and should go to Leavenworth.

Glad to see the Fark double standard is still in full effect.

More like "if Bush is in office and someone in that administration leaks classified information exposing a CIA agent, they should get off scott free."


And by "More like" you mean completely different from. Neither Manning or Owen were members of the respective administrations so your comparison doesn't fit.
 
2012-09-05 01:14:39 PM  

Callous: And by "More like" you mean completely different from. Neither Manning or Owen were members of the respective administrations so your comparison doesn't fit.


Well, your statement was nonsensical to begin with since these leaks really did not make Obama look bad and no one is suggesting anyone be court martialed.
 
2012-09-05 01:18:55 PM  

BronyMedic: alienated: go ahead, armchair special ops types, tell me i am wrong, but please- include your class number so i can prove you are not, nor have even been a real specop

My Grandfather was enlisted Naval Intelligence in Vietnam, and served on the Camp David security staff. (I have his white house medals and service records to prove it. Along with some really interesting gifts from Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Johnson's staff)

He taught me a really valuable lesson that I still hold onto today when dealing with people who claim to have been in the "Special Forces" of any branch: The ones that actually were don't brag about it for the most part. They either don't want you to know, or don't like to talk about it.


My grandpa was an Air Force vet. My biological father was a cable-layer for the Air Force.

Guess which one has the obsession with military and was the only one I felt pressure from, growing up, to consider a 'vet'.

/It's part of why I respect my grandfather so much. He's done a lot, and a lot of people would call him a hero, but I honestly was fuzzy on whether or not he was even in the Air Force until I was maybe fourteen or so. He cares more about living honorably and enjoying life. I hope I grow up to be half of what that guy is.
//...Though maybe without the fart jokes.
 
2012-09-05 01:27:33 PM  

vartian: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: If they wanted to be careful, they'd have joined the Coast Guard.

The Coast Guard does an insane amount of dangerous shiat on a near daily basis.


impaler: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: If they wanted to be careful, they'd have joined the Coast Guard.

Way to shat on our servicemen, Republican scum.



blogs.amctv.com
 
2012-09-05 01:30:58 PM  

my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: In basic training all infantry soldiers learn to use NVG, including a night-fire exercise where you have to shoot targets using NVGs w/IR laser mounted on the rifle in the middle of the night.


Fixed that for you. It's not exclusive to Infantry OSUT. Night fire and use of NVG's and IR lasers was standard training in Basic when I went through a few years ago. Might not get it to do it constantly like the 11B's, but nowadays every soldier gets trained how to use NVGs, and that we use IR lasers and and IR chemlights for night ops for everything from marking rooms as clear, to marking LZ's for helicopters.

I'd imagine some might forget about it if they never use them after BCT, but it's not exactly classified info.
 
2012-09-05 01:32:11 PM  

Silverstaff: trotsky: I've seen stuff like this all over sites like Facebook and it's sickening that these shiatbags can twist a success into a partisan issue. What pisses me off the most is the use of "SEALS" who try to refute what happened and try to say Obama is taking all the credit. "SEALS" that haven't served in decades. "SEALS" who happen to be GOP shills.

Swift boating. Popular Republican tactic. See also John Kerry, 2004.

Take the military accomplishments of a Democrat. Either in uniform, or as Commander In Chief, have retired/former servicemembers who were in a related unit to the accomplishment insult the accomplishment and cast doubts on the heroism, leadership or achievement involved.



that guy who was the king swiftboater, john oneil, has hated john Kerry for at least 4 decades now. he wasn't some republican fiction ginned up for the presidential fight. he was debating kerry back in 1971 for christ sake.
kerry made his political bones calling Vietnam soldiers war criminals, and some people have very long memories.

It is an open question whether Mr. Kerry's past will hurt him now, but his words to the Senate remain a special lightning rod, especially because he described soldiers' actions as "not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command."

Link
 
2012-09-05 01:32:16 PM  

KiplingKat872: Callous: And by "More like" you mean completely different from. Neither Manning or Owen were members of the respective administrations so your comparison doesn't fit.

Well, your statement was nonsensical to begin with since these leaks really did not make Obama look bad and no one is suggesting anyone be court martialed.


And by "did not make Obama look bad", you mean suggesting he ordered an unarmed man executed. And by "no one is suggesting anyone be court martialed", you mean the Pentagon General Council is threatening legal action against the author.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/04/politic s/seals-bin-laden-book/index.htm l
 
2012-09-05 01:38:45 PM  
btw, kerry lost not because of swifboat, but because he was possibly the worst presidential candidate in 20 years. IIRC Kerry's major legislative accomplishment in 20 years was creating secretaries day.
seriously, obama's senatorial accomplishments made john kerry look like a freshman senator.
only time will tell if romney is actually worse. now go get some ointment on that ass.


beldar.blogs.com

www.synthstuff.com

www.theamericanmind.com
 
2012-09-05 01:42:35 PM  

Callous: And by "did not make Obama look bad", you mean suggesting he ordered an unarmed man executed.


Dude, you do know Roosevelt and the Pentagon had kill orders out on Yamamoto in WWII, right? That's war pal. With the execution of a few Republican hypocrites trying to make as much political hay as Obama, there is no one saying Obama was wrong for finally ordering the hit.

If the author revealed classified information, then he is violation of the law. Just like Manning is still locked up in Leavenworth and will be standing trial in February.

Yeah, sorry to burst your bubble, but Manning is not being treated as a hero
 
2012-09-05 01:44:22 PM  

PsiChick: //...Though maybe without the fart jokes.


Hey now! Fart jokes make life worth living.

i43.photobucket.com

 
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