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(NBC News)   Commander of Naval Special Warfare Command tells Navy SEALS to shut the hell up. "For an Elite Force that should be humble and disciplined for life, we are certainly not appearing to be so"   (usnews.nbcnews.com) divider line 317
    More: Followup, elite force, NSW, Navy SEALs, Dutton, military base, military officials, Jeh Johnson, commanders  
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12596 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Sep 2012 at 6:43 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-05 08:51:01 AM

SlothB77: "We do NOT advertise the nature of our work, NOR do we seek recognition for our actions,"

that's left for the politicians to do. though, i will say the WH wasn't shy about coming out and releasing all these supposed details of the raid. None of those details ended up being true, but they sure as hell weren't humble.

Obama is just mad he is about to be Swift Boated by these SEALS. Obama: this is your swift boat moment.


Really, NONE of the details were true?

So the raid did not take place in Pakistan?
OBL was not really hiding next to the Pakistan Westpoint?
There was no helicopter that had to be left behind?
SEALs didn't actually do it?
They didn't use guns?
There were no animals harmed in the making of the raid?

Since NONE of the details are true, why even allow that OBL was killed. Maybe it is all a big lie to make Obama look better. May as well say that OBL was killed years ago in some bombing raids under Bush, but he was just too cool to be worried over it.
 
2012-09-05 08:51:17 AM

cryinoutloud: More likely that that a member of the precious snowflake generation wasn't able to do his life-changing mission without getting praise and a trophy for it. HE never agreed to keep secrets! How will people ever know what a great guy he is that way??


Seeing as how this guy was at DEVGRU, he's probably in his late 30's.
 
2012-09-05 08:52:29 AM
No kidding.

When heroes kill a terrorist, it's supposed to be used a cheesy PR piece for the President, even though he had nothing to do with it, and he was on the 12th hole when it happened.

We don't want to hear from the heroes themselves. Just let Barry take a bow, DAMMIT.

/sorry Spanky, it's #1 on Amazon
 
2012-09-05 08:52:31 AM

wingnut396: Since NONE of the details are true, why even allow that OBL was killed. Maybe it is all a big lie to make Obama look better. May as well say that OBL was killed years ago in some bombing raids under Bush, but he was just too cool to be worried over it.


This is now fact.
 
2012-09-05 08:53:52 AM

Silverstaff: At my very first Drill in the National Guard, before I even reported for Basic, that was given to us verbally as a direct order.


By some fat guy who also told you all his war stories? Everyone in the Army wears their ACUs out in public, especially in the National Guard.
 
2012-09-05 08:55:22 AM
I think there is a real problem with the military right now.

Between General McChrystal's interview in Rolling Stone and the SEALs I think thee is a real sense of betrayal between the Commander in Chief and the military. From their point of view they take all the risk while politicians use them like a centerpiece at thanksgiving and then packed away until the next time they're useful.

It's not good.
 
2012-09-05 09:00:49 AM

ZipSplat: Crotchrocket Slim: BTW if you bothered to read his post, he wasn't talking about mil regulations, he was talking about military culture. You know, that thing you learn about while actually serving? That thing my uncles who spent the early part of the second Iraq war dodging IEDs while running supplies to front line bases made sure I understood? Even if you served I'm farking glad you aren't now apparently, as you would have been a huge embarrassment to everyone else in that uniform.

LOL, kid, go play in traffic. You and KiplingKat are both way outside of your respective elements.


You are excellent on Farking now get to convincing me you actually aren't just another internet tough guy trying to sound cool.
 
2012-09-05 09:03:35 AM

Cauchy_Riemann_equations: Between General McChrystal's interview in Rolling Stone and the SEALs I think thee is a real sense of betrayal between the Commander in Chief and the military. From their point of view they take all the risk while politicians use them like a centerpiece at thanksgiving and then packed away until the next time they're useful.


I've been in during both the Bush administration and the Obama administration. I don't think they feel "used", I think that the military is just overwhelmingly Republican, and Republicans for some reason are particularly prone to falling for stupid conspiracy theories and inane political rhetoric.

Seriously. Fox News is on every television in the chow hall. SNCOs listen to Michael Savage in the office. I think it has more to do with the sense that liberals are pussies and conservatives are strongmen than it has to do with any particularly organic sense of disenfranchisement. It's astounding how many people fall for it.

I did a stint in the Guard after I left the Marine Corps and people would gather 'round the TV at the end of the day during drill and watch Glenn Beck wax on about communist conspiracies and presidential racism. If I had turned on a TV during the Bush administration in the Marine Corps and watched Keith Olbermann, I don't think it would have been similarly welcomed.
 
2012-09-05 09:03:43 AM

ZipSplat: Silverstaff: At my very first Drill in the National Guard, before I even reported for Basic, that was given to us verbally as a direct order.

By some fat guy who also told you all his war stories? Everyone in the Army wears their ACUs out in public, especially in the National Guard.


This has been noted the last few years and is extremely unapreciated as a lack of discipline. Sometimes a young private walking around the mall outside a base risks being approached by a retired Sergeant Major and being cussed out right their in the mall, and might report them to their Chain of Command.

Airforce seems less disciplined about this attitude, and a lot of people see airmen walking around and confuse them for soldiers. National Guard is obviously less enforced since chances are they won't run into anyone that has even served before. It's still problematic. If you see someone check out their name and rank and report them to your State's TAG office, they would like to know.
 
2012-09-05 09:04:36 AM

Silverstaff: Science_Guy_3.14159: You do know every branch of the military has an unwritten rule that you can't wear your uniform if you aren't on base or on active duty, except at special events like parades, weddings and funerals. I think for the Marines this is an actual law they have to follow.

At my very first Drill in the National Guard, before I even reported for Basic, that was given to us verbally as a direct order.

Never wear the uniform unless you are in a paid status (i.e. active duty or drill/annual training), or at a patriotic, ceremonial or military function where it is appropriate. Don't wear the uniform to just be out and about walking around in it, don't wear it to go out deer hunting or mudding in your four-wheeler, don't wear it anywhere you wouldn't want your Commander or First Sergeant to see you wearing it, don't wear it anywhere you wouldn't want it to show up on the front page of the local paper or on the TV news wearing it.

Reviewing AR-670-1 Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia, it states in Section 1-10 (2) j. that "Wearing Army uniforms is prohibited in the following situations:
(1) In connection with the furtherance of any political or commercial interests, or when engaged in off-duty civilian employment.
(2) When participating in public speeches, interviews, picket lines, marches, rallies, or public demonstrations, except as authorized by competent authority.
(3) When attending any meeting or event that is a function of, or is sponsored by, an extremist organization.
(4) When wearing the uniform would bring discredit upon the Army.
(5) When specifically prohibited by Army regulations."

The last one is a little funny, since it IS the Army regulation on when not to wear the uniform, but I guess they mean that if it happens to be mentioned to not do it in another regulation, that counts too.


I'm guessing you served in a utterly different Armed Force than Zippy lolz

Watch out an ITG might tell you to stop posting
 
2012-09-05 09:06:13 AM

dersk: CMYK and PMS:
He has at least partially repaired the U.S.'s reputation and standing on the Global Stage Hardly, we are now seen as a country that will murder our own citizens around the world with no trial


From where I'm sitting (Western Europe), the US reputation is MUCH better under Obama than it was under Bush.
They don't know all that much about Romney other than 'rich businessman', and at least here the only stuff I've seen about Ryan was about how full of lies his speech was. Just what I've observed here in Holland.



Funny how four years ago, the GOP hyper focused on terrorism and warned everyone that it was the #1 threat to America but somehow it was barely even worth a mention from Romney last week. George W. Bush correctly coined the term Global War On Terrorism and then went out of his way to piss off the other nations on this globe that would have otherwise gladly helped us, not to mention the colossal mistake of squandering our international goodwill on Iraq. By the end not only did forgotten Poland tell us to forget about it, but even the Brits abandoned us to that trillion+ dollar folly.
 
2012-09-05 09:09:29 AM

ChuDogg: Airforce seems less disciplined about this attitude, and a lot of people see airmen walking around and confuse them for soldiers. National Guard is obviously less enforced since chances are they won't run into anyone that has even served before. It's still problematic. If you see someone check out their name and rank and report them to your State's TAG office, they would like to know.


The National Guard was shiat. Worst decision I ever made. Those lazy, fat pieces of shiat - I couldn't believe the stuff that went on there. Contrasted with the Marine Corps I don't even consider them to be part of the military.

Our capital newspaper has an entire page devoted to the scandals spilling out of our National Guard. My favorite: Our last CG, who joined the Guard during Vietnam to dodge the draft, got caught double-dipping on federal and state pay. He was cashing two checks for his pay grade. And the two CGs before him were doing it too.

Unlike Texas when they had the same issue arise with two of their generals, we didn't send ours to prison. They just recouped a small portion of what he had stolen and let him retire.
 
2012-09-05 09:13:21 AM

Crotchrocket Slim: I'm guessing you served in a utterly different Armed Force than Zippy lolz


Or he's a boot, lolz.
 
2012-09-05 09:14:02 AM
my cousin (RIP) was on Team 6
he shared a few wild stories about 'training techniques' when he'd been drinking

/good kid
//and a bit scary
 
2012-09-05 09:14:06 AM

trotsky: I've seen stuff like this all over sites like Facebook and it's sickening that these shiatbags can twist a success into a partisan issue. What pisses me off the most is the use of "SEALS" who try to refute what happened and try to say Obama is taking all the credit. "SEALS" that haven't served in decades. "SEALS" who happen to be GOP shills.


Swift boating. Popular Republican tactic. See also John Kerry, 2004.

Take the military accomplishments of a Democrat. Either in uniform, or as Commander In Chief, have retired/former servicemembers who were in a related unit to the accomplishment insult the accomplishment and cast doubts on the heroism, leadership or achievement involved.

Doesn't matter if the allegations are true or can be substantiated at all, FOX News will trumpet them constantly and create enough of a media stink that the allegations will be reprinted in other media, even if to just cover the controversy. The fact allegations exist alone will make some people think they are true. It creates doubt.

That's what they are looking for, doubt and the specter of impropriety.
 
2012-09-05 09:18:13 AM

BronyMedic: He taught me a really valuable lesson that I still hold onto today when dealing with people who claim to have been in the "Special Forces" of any branch: The ones that actually were don't brag about it for the most part. They either don't want you to know, or don't like to talk about it.


Frankly, I haven't really observed that to be the case. I've known a good number of current and ex special forces guys of various kinds (mostly Army, as I am myself ex Army). They pretty much all mention it regularly, and I don't think I've ever met one that doesn't have his medals and beret or other sign of office prominently displayed somewhere in there home. They might not be spouting off classified stuff right left and center, but they aren't that shy about it and will give you stories that are kind of hazy on details. Which is cool, as I'm not one to let details like dates, times, locations and that kind of thing get in the way of a good story.
 
2012-09-05 09:19:20 AM

KiplingKat872: CMYK and PMS: It is Obama's only accomplishment

Sorry, what?

Putting slowly turning the economy around despite constant obstructionism from the GOP, in foriegn policy terms:

He assisted the revolution in Libya without getting us directly involved in a ground war there.

He removed most of the troops from Iraq so they could focus on the war in Afghanistan.

He has kept the tensions with Iran from exploding into war.

He has not kowtowed to Israel.

He has took an aggressive military posture toward North Korea when they sank South Korea Navy ship.

Love it or hate it, he has taken a strong position about eliminating Taliban camps on the Pakistan side.

He solidified relations with Japan after the Tsunami by sending the USS Ronald Regan for disaster relief.

He has at least partially repaired the U.S.'s reputation and standing on the Global Stage

To say he has accomplished nothing but the assassination of bin Laden is a lie, simple as that.




Only. Accomplishment.
 
2012-09-05 09:21:59 AM

maram500: Ivandrago: maram500: Science_Guy_3.14159: The Commander of the Naval Special Warfare Department tells the NAVY SEALS to show more discretion and be more humble... also not to brake the law and leak classified information. I don't see the problem with this. You do know every branch of the military has an unwritten rule that you can't wear your uniform if you aren't on base or on active duty, except at special events like parades, weddings and funerals. I think for the Marines this is an actual law they have to follow.

Believe it or not most military people, enlisted men and officers, are quite humble and disciplined and get quite upset when they see another soldier that isn't.

That's actually a written rule for the Marine Corps and the Navy. And I've tried making sense of the "Order of the Day" and what uniform can be worn when and where and...I had to drink. Too much regulation for a uniform, I think.

/Almost joined the Navy
//Would have gone to OCS
///Probably would be an O-3 by now
////Oh well

In the Army we wore our duty uniform all over town. When I lived with my sister, who was a Marine, she was always very annoyed that she couldn't stop off at the grocery store near her house after work because she wasn't allowed to do things off base in her uniform. She babbled something about respecting the uniform and ensuring civilians didn't see them doing anything improper while wearing it. Seemed silly to me, especially in a military town.

This is [another reason ]why Marines > Army. Marines go in first, kick more ass, and have far more respect for the uniform than to wear it off-base.

/One of my best friends is a Marine
//Lost his knee in Iraq
///A hero to me
////Not every person in uniform is automatically a hero, but thanks to you and your sister for serving


Your thanks are appreciated.
But as someone who is related to Marines, and has worked with Marines, and will admit to a certain amount of inter service rivalry, this business about the Marines kicking more ass gets old.
I'm sorry, but they don't go in first and they are not America's shock troops (damn you Generation Kill). They go in at the same time as all other conventional forces. Marine Infantry are no better at stacking and clearing and movement to contact than Army Infantry. Marines are better marksmen, true, as long as it's a known distance range, and they are in the prone shooting at stationary targets. In my experience (2 deployments to Iraq) I never fired a single shot at 500 yards from the prone at a stationary target. With respect for the uniform, making your Marines' lives harder by not allowing them to perform simple functions does not engender more respect for the uniform, it's annoying. Let's say I go to the commissary to buy food for dinner. I'm having sandwiches. I buy everything but the bread. I realize this on the way home but I can't stop at the grocery store across the street from my house because I'm in uniform. MRE's for dinner! That's a slight exaggeration. My sister mentioned that if you wear your uniform around, people ask you about it, and maybe people will be interested in what you do and maybe they'll join because they see how awesome you look in your uniform. If you want to know what most Marines think about the silly rules they have to abide by read terminallance.com (it's the best military webcomic), some of it might go over your head because you didn't serve in the Infantry (no dig, just a fact) but you'll see all the BS they have to put up with and how it doesn't make their lives any better, nor make them a more elite fighting force.

/end (slight) rant
 
2012-09-05 09:22:20 AM
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-09-05 09:28:01 AM

vartian: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: If they wanted to be careful, they'd have joined the Coast Guard.

The Coast Guard does an insane amount of dangerous shiat on a near daily basis.


No doubt. The Coasties have been at war with the drug cartels for decades. And to put that in perspective: The drug cartels cut off WAY more heads than Al Qaida.
 
2012-09-05 09:31:23 AM

ZipSplat: Crotchrocket Slim: I'm guessing you served in a utterly different Armed Force than Zippy lolz

Or he's a boot, lolz.


*sigh*

Back in my uncles' days serving the uniform meant something. Thanks to twatwaffles like you it's now a tool to get laid in bars. Real awesome.
 
2012-09-05 09:33:57 AM

KiplingKat872: He solidified relations with Japan after the Tsunami by sending the USS Ronald Regan for disaster relief.


Isn't there just a little bit of irony in sending the USS Ronald Reagan to make the statement "I'm from the US government, and I'm here to help"?
 
2012-09-05 09:36:26 AM

Crotchrocket Slim: I'm guessing you served in a utterly different Armed Force than Zippy lolz


Honestly, I've seen his type in the Guard over the years. The "Angry Marine" type, who when finished with their active-duty time went to the National Guard and spent that entire time constantly whining and biatching about how "we wouldn't put up with this bullshiat in the Corps" or "the Marines weren't like this".

I remember asking one of these types why he didn't just go to the USMC Reserve instead of the Guard when his active time was up, his answer was "they pissed me off." Marines are trained to think they are inherently better, their way is inherently better, and they are a superior and elite force. They have good publicity and good esprit de corps.

However, outside that USMC bubble, the rest of the DOD just treats them as another service, not superior, just equals. They hate that, hate it with a passion.

By the way, ZipSplat, I'm no boot. I've been in a few years, got a few ribbons on my chest and a hash mark on my sleeve. No, I haven't deployed overseas yet. I've spent more than half my time in the Guard on various homeland security related active-duty assignments stateside. I'm scheduled to go to Afghanistan next year, as part of the final rotations before combat operations end. My unit was supposed to go to Iraq, but that deployment got cancelled when the war ended.

Yeah, I've seen shiatbag Guardsmen who did their one enlistment and left, but the system corrects itself, and they don't re-enlist (or can't because they can't pass a PT test) and don't get promoted. However, for every shiatbag out there I've seen just waiting until his ETS date, I've seen at least two Guardsmen who would fit in fine on any active duty post (and lately we've been getting a lot of active duty soldiers coming to the Guard after being released from Active duty due to the drawdown).
 
2012-09-05 09:37:24 AM

BullBearMS: alienated: BullBearMS: All you have to do is admit that we never had any intention whatsoever of taking this guy captive.

well, duh. What could we have done ? I mean, besides making a stain on the walls out of him. Could we, even as a nation ruled by law, had a trial ? I am not being facetious here.I see no other solution except his summary execution. armed or not is immaterial at this point. Laden was a cancer and needed to be excised . By any and all means at our disposal. Cold ? yep. I would have done the same to McViegh, given the chance.

I'm of two minds on this one.

Obviously, the most convenient outcome for us was that he be killed instead of captured.

However, England, Spain, and India somehow managed to give public trials in a court of law to the people behind their recent terrorist attacks. I'm pretty sure if they can manage it, we can too. We're supposed to be all about the rule of law here in America.


The Difference is, the attackers in Britian and India were citizens of those countries who actually carried out the attacks. Osama was a foriegn national who effectively declared war on the US and was the active head of a military organization planning further attacks. That makes him a military target, not a civilian lawbreaker
 
2012-09-05 09:38:40 AM

CMYK and PMS: KiplingKat872: Love it or hate it, he has taken a strong position about eliminating Taliban camps on the Pakistan side.

the US has no business going into other countries and blowing things up.


CMYK and PMS wishes OBL was still alive. We had no business going into Pakistan, after all...
 
2012-09-05 09:42:16 AM

Tat'dGreaser: Yes it's a great thing that Obama gave the order to go in and take Bin Laden out but the language a lot of people used was and is dangerous. When people say "Obama killed Bin Laden" that kind of takes away from what those guys did. I'm just saying, maybe people are more upset about what he said regarding that?


It sounds like you're trying to make an argument that some people actually might think that Obama went in there personally and killed Osama. I don't know what kind of stupid people you hang out with, but no one I know would make that mistake, no matter how it was worded.


ZipSplat: cryinoutloud: More likely that that a member of the precious snowflake generation wasn't able to do his life-changing mission without getting praise and a trophy for it. HE never agreed to keep secrets! How will people ever know what a great guy he is that way??
Seeing as how this guy was at DEVGRU, he's probably in his late 30's.


well I take it all back then. After all, a full-grown MAN would never want to be praised for their accomplishments. He did this purely for "honor." Why, not even HIS honor. He's just worried about, you know, honor in general. We need more honor. And how lucky are we that this brave man is right here to set us straight about what true honor is? It's all explained in that book he wrote, and you too can read it and find out about true honor. Just pay him.
 
2012-09-05 09:44:21 AM
I just told the Commander to STFU.
Who's the bad ass now.
 
2012-09-05 09:44:50 AM

vartian: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: If they wanted to be careful, they'd have joined the Coast Guard.

The Coast Guard does an insane amount of dangerous shiat on a near daily basis.


Could you be a little more vague, please?

/Fark details... amirite?
 
2012-09-05 09:45:23 AM

Ivandrago: Marine Infantry are no better at stacking and clearing and movement to contact than Army Infantry.


I'm with you completely except for this line. I've seen some terrible National Guard* units, and I'd have to give the Marines the advantage there. I doubt that the shiattiest Marine grunts are half as bad as the shiattiest grunts in the Army. As a whole, though, I agree that there doesn't seem to be a significant difference between Marines and "real" Army infantry. The Marines just keep their POGs in much better shape than the Army does.

*Reserve units, too, but those are never combat arms
 
2012-09-05 09:46:57 AM

cryinoutloud: It sounds like you're trying to make an argument that some people actually might think that Obama went in there personally and killed Osama. I don't know what kind of stupid people you hang out with, but no one I know would make that mistake, no matter how it was worded.


cosplay.paheal.net
Nope. I have proof.
 
2012-09-05 09:47:18 AM

Magorn: The Difference is, the attackers in Britian and India were citizens of those countries who actually carried out the attacks. Osama was a foriegn national who effectively declared war on the US and was the active head of a military organization planning further attacks. That makes him a military target, not a civilian lawbreaker


I'm pretty sure that several of the Mumbai attackers were Pakistani; at the very least they received a *lot* of support from the ISI. And one of the London bombers was Jamaican.

I think we Americans are just kind of cowardly. I much rather would've seen bin Laden and all the rest on trial than killed or indefinitely detained. I mean, we're trying to show that our system is superior, right?
 
2012-09-05 09:47:19 AM

ZipSplat: Silverstaff: At my very first Drill in the National Guard, before I even reported for Basic, that was given to us verbally as a direct order.

By some fat guy who also told you all his war stories? Everyone in the Army wears their ACUs out in public, especially in the National Guard.


I believe depending on the military branch this is also at the discretion of the base commander, along with many other things. There might be some officers that are a lot less strict then others however overall I am quite sure it is not accepted.
 
2012-09-05 09:49:35 AM

cryinoutloud: It sounds like you're trying to make an argument that some people actually might think that Obama went in there personally and killed Osama. I don't know what kind of stupid people you hang out with, but no one I know would make that mistake, no matter how it was worded.


Marylanders. He hangs out with Marylanders, and Frednecks, specifically. So it isn't his fault.
 
2012-09-05 09:53:34 AM

Silverstaff: Crotchrocket Slim: I'm guessing you served in a utterly different Armed Force than Zippy lolz

Honestly, I've seen his type in the Guard over the years. The "Angry Marine" type, who when finished with their active-duty time went to the National Guard and spent that entire time constantly whining and biatching about how "we wouldn't put up with this bullshiat in the Corps" or "the Marines weren't like this".

I remember asking one of these types why he didn't just go to the USMC Reserve instead of the Guard when his active time was up, his answer was "they pissed me off."


Do you find "they pissed me off" to really mean "I couldn't rise up through the ranks as I'm not at all a team player and a bit of a whiner"? Generally speaking that what I usually read that as.
 
2012-09-05 09:53:43 AM
damn right I agree with this.
 
2012-09-05 09:54:44 AM

ZipSplat: The National Guard was shiat. Worst decision I ever made. Those lazy, fat pieces of shiat - I couldn't believe the stuff that went on there. Contrasted with the Marine Corps I don't even consider them to be part of the military.


They aren't supposed to be the military.
 
2012-09-05 10:00:44 AM
The Bush administration is responsible for post-9/11 leadership that sent a message that following rule of law would be seen as weakness and that strong leaders break supposedly obsolete rules to get results. Unfortunately this is what lot of the American people believe too. Obama possibly could have insisted on closing Gitmo and having normal trials but it would have cost him all his political capital and he'd have got nothing else done. Now we're stuck with this precedent. If there is another incident of the magnitude of 9/11 the exact same shiat will happen again. It's policy. We WILL break our own laws when we respond. We WILL retroactively make whatever we do legal and punish no one.
 
2012-09-05 10:03:21 AM

Crotchrocket Slim: Do you find "they pissed me off" to really mean "I couldn't rise up through the ranks as I'm not at all a team player and a bit of a whiner"? Generally speaking that what I usually read that as.


**DING!**
 
2012-09-05 10:13:16 AM

dersk: I think we Americans are just kind of cowardly. I much rather would've seen bin Laden and all the rest on trial than killed or indefinitely detained. I mean, we're trying to show that our system is superior, right


That is pretty ballsy.

I am guessing you have plenty of experience in taking people alive who would rather go down fighting, and in ordering peopel to do so, right?
 
2012-09-05 10:13:44 AM

BullBearMS: Well, as we have seen going way back to Nixon's pardon and all the way up to Obama' refusal to prosecute those guilty of torture (even when the people we tortured freaking died of it), neither of the two parties is interested in the rule of law anymore.

We need another option.


Another option would split the vote of one of the existing options leading to an hegemony for the other.
 
2012-09-05 10:15:07 AM

BullBearMS: The major reason for political butthurt over this book seems to be that this guy says the mission was a lot more about kill than about "kill or capture".

"No Easy Day," the new pseudonymous book revealed to be by Navy SEAL Mark Bissonnette, claims that Osama bin Laden was unarmed when shot at his Abbottabad compound last May. That's another key discrepancy in a story that's already changed several times since the initial days after Obama, to much acclaim, announced the killing of the Al Qaeda leader.

If you remember, the initial story was that when Bin Laden was shot, he was firing weapons while hiding behind one of his wives who he used as a human shield.


I read the book last night, and I think in context they went in with kill or capture, but a few things made them switch to just kill mode.

1. Chalk 1(the blackhawk the author rode on to UBL compound) crashed
2. The courier in the guest house opened fire.

After that, everyone in the compound knew that there was armed forces there. So I have no issue with them talk little to no chances. If UBL(SEALs used the CIA spelling Usama) wanted to surrender, he could have. But he didn't, and I don't fault the SEALs for not giving him more than one chance to surrender.

However, I did pick up some things that I need not know. Like how they mark rooms they have cleared with infrared chem lights. Or about how reliant they are on NVGs. They use IR lasers because they assume the other side isn't using NVG at all. If I was an insurgent, I would pick up a cheap sony handy cam, and if you see a bunch of ir beans moving around, you know where the SEALs are.
 
2012-09-05 10:15:28 AM
Maybe the SEALS are a little pissed that Obama has been using the killing as a political tool and trying to take all the credit.
 
2012-09-05 10:17:58 AM

dersk: Magorn: The Difference is, the attackers in Britian and India were citizens of those countries who actually carried out the attacks. Osama was a foriegn national who effectively declared war on the US and was the active head of a military organization planning further attacks. That makes him a military target, not a civilian lawbreaker

I'm pretty sure that several of the Mumbai attackers were Pakistani; at the very least they received a *lot* of support from the ISI. And one of the London bombers was Jamaican.

I think we Americans are just kind of cowardly. I much rather would've seen bin Laden and all the rest on trial than killed or indefinitely detained. I mean, we're trying to show that our system is superior, right?


I dunno. I think trying to put UBL on trial would have lead to more terrorism. Look at Munich, when terrorists took hostages to get the members of black September released. I bet Al Qaeda would have done something similar.
 
2012-09-05 10:18:06 AM

Publikwerks: However, I did pick up some things that I need not know. Like how they mark rooms they have cleared with infrared chem lights. Or about how reliant they are on NVGs. They use IR lasers because they assume the other side isn't using NVG at all. If I was an insurgent, I would pick up a cheap sony handy cam, and if you see a bunch of ir beans moving around, you know where the SEALs are.


got me through Arkham city.
 
2012-09-05 10:19:49 AM

liam76: dersk: I think we Americans are just kind of cowardly. I much rather would've seen bin Laden and all the rest on trial than killed or indefinitely detained. I mean, we're trying to show that our system is superior, right

That is pretty ballsy.

I am guessing you have plenty of experience in taking people alive who would rather go down fighting, and in ordering peopel to do so, right?


What's that got to do with whether or not we try people? With bin Laden, sure - we didn't know exactly what to expect inside the compound, so it's understandable to shoot first . I was thinking more of the Gitmo detainees.
 
2012-09-05 10:20:06 AM
Flynavy steps in - rearranges his medals and steps out......
 
2012-09-05 10:20:54 AM

BGates: Maybe the SEALS are a little pissed that Obama has been using the killing as a political tool and trying to take all the credit.


Really, how has Obama done that?

Please, link to a source where Obama said "I did it"

Ever time I have heard Obama talk about it, he ALLWAYS mentions the heorics of the SEALs and the tireless work of the intellegence agents who tracked him down.

Even the author of the book says Obama didn't take all the credit
 
2012-09-05 10:24:10 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Follow-Up?

Needs a damned HERO tag.


How about an 'Act of Valor" tag?

upload.wikimedia.org

Be sure to stay quiet SEALs.
 
2012-09-05 10:25:17 AM

Publikwerks: Really, how has Obama done that?

Please, link to a source where Obama said "I did it"

Ever time I have heard Obama talk about it, he ALLWAYS mentions the heorics of the SEALs and the tireless work of the intellegence agents who tracked him down.

Even the author of the book says Obama didn't take all the credit



I concur. The death of Bin Laden probably didn't do a whole lot operationally, but it was a huge symbolic coup. It makes the point that we will hunt you down and kill you, no matter how ridiculous it gets if you piss us off enough. A president would have to be nuts not to crow a little about it.
 
2012-09-05 10:26:54 AM

Publikwerks:
I dunno. I think trying to put UBL on trial would have lead to more terrorism. Look at Munich, when terrorists took hostages to get the members of black September released. I bet Al Qaeda would have done something similar.


I imagine so - but I think al Qaeda's pretty much droned out at this point. It'd probably be one offs, but still - so what? We shouldn't act like America because there might be a terrorist attack? Personally, I'd be happy to triple the chances that I die as a civilian in a terrorist attack in order to maintain America.
 
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