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(AZCentral)   Unable to find any lemonade stands to shut down, city officials in Phoenix order a woman to stop giving away bottles of water to thirsty people   (azcentral.com) divider line 74
    More: Asinine, Rutherford Institute, Arizona Attorney General, city managers  
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10314 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Sep 2012 at 11:23 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-04 06:22:06 PM
A city memo about the incident said Crow-Smith was violating the "mobile vendor" ordinance, which requires a vendor operating on private property to obtain a city permit for "vending, selling, serving, displaying, offering for sale or giving away goods, wares, or merchandise or food from either a mobile vending unit or a mobile food vending unit."


Rutherford Institute attorney Doug Drury wrote a letter to Phoenix officials on Aug. 9, saying Crow-Smith's water giveaway was legal since she was giving passers-by water, not selling it. "Ms. Crow-Smith's conduct was a manifestation of her sincerely held religious beliefs," he added.

City ordinances, how do they work again ? i am not saying i agree with it, but hey- change the law then...
 
2012-09-04 08:43:43 PM

alienated: City ordinances, how do they work again ? i am not saying i agree with it, but hey- change the law then...


You overlooked a detail there. " giving away goods, wares, or merchandise or food from either a mobile vending unit or a mobile food vending unit."

It doesn't look like it was as "vending unit" IMHO, as "vending" usually means there's some exchange of money.
 
2012-09-04 08:51:08 PM

optikeye: alienated: City ordinances, how do they work again ? i am not saying i agree with it, but hey- change the law then...

You overlooked a detail there. " giving away goods, wares, or merchandise or food from either a mobile vending unit or a mobile food vending unit."

It doesn't look like it was as "vending unit" IMHO, as "vending" usually means there's some exchange of money.


Vend:

transitive verb
1
a : to sell especially as a hawker or peddler
b : to sell by means of vending machines

Latin vendere to sell, v.t., contraction for venum dare to give for sale
 
2012-09-04 08:54:44 PM

optikeye:

It doesn't look like it was as "vending unit" IMHO, as "vending" usually means there's some exchange of money.


Therein is the problem. Businesses pay good money to be able to sell their water at absurd mark-ups. If someone gives water away for free, there goes those sales and that profit. We can't have her going and putting thousand of people out of work, businesses shuttered, taxes not being paid, the city declares bankruptcy and rabid dogs wander free killing children by the hundreds.
 
2012-09-04 09:29:21 PM
Whatever happened to common sense?

Look the other way, dickhead city official who barred this woman. What a jerk you are.
 
2012-09-04 09:33:36 PM
Oh, in my initial comment I forgot- who has a damn lemon stand ?
 
2012-09-04 09:35:01 PM
Phoenix didn't use to be this way, at least 25 years ago. Course half of California hadn't moved in yet either.
 
2012-09-04 09:41:39 PM

edmo: Phoenix didn't use to be this way, at least 25 years ago. Course half of California hadn't moved in yet either.


Spent some time in and near Phoenix recently. Staying in California.
 
2012-09-04 09:49:28 PM
Lemon Stand?
 
2012-09-04 09:50:36 PM
I desperately want to BLARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH! and blow a heart valve but this seems like one of those stories that forgets to mention the fact that she was handing them out in the middle of the highway.
 
2012-09-04 10:09:23 PM
How hard is it to obtain a permit? Does it cost a lot? Because I'd at least want her name and DL# written down somewhere just in case she was giving out Jonestown Kool-Aid instead of water. Though, I probably wouldn't ingest something given to me by a religious nutjob stranger, anyway, so there's that.

/Go away, poor persecuted Christian
 
2012-09-04 10:27:36 PM

brap: I desperately want to BLARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH! and blow a heart valve but this seems like one of those stories that forgets to mention the fact that she was handing them out in the middle of the highway.


The problem was that she was standing in a private lot, according to TFA.
 
2012-09-04 10:36:02 PM

BarkingUnicorn: brap: I desperately want to BLARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH! and blow a heart valve but this seems like one of those stories that forgets to mention the fact that she was handing them out in the middle of the highway.

The problem was that she was standing in a private lot, according to TFA.



A private lot can mean a lot of things.  "Private" being the main operative.
 
2012-09-04 10:38:14 PM
They should just have a lemon party
 
2012-09-04 11:24:46 PM
images1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-09-04 11:26:14 PM
O'er the land of the brave
and the home of the free.

/guess which country that anthem is from
 
2012-09-04 11:26:48 PM
If I read TFA correctly she could have moved onto public property (ie. sidewalk) and been ok. Asinine is right.
 
2012-09-04 11:26:55 PM

I_Am_Weasel: optikeye:

It doesn't look like it was as "vending unit" IMHO, as "vending" usually means there's some exchange of money.

Therein is the problem. Businesses pay good money to be able to sell their water at absurd mark-ups. If someone gives water away for free, there goes those sales and that profit. We can't have her going and putting thousand of people out of work, businesses shuttered, taxes not being paid, the city declares bankruptcy and rabid dogs wander free killing children by the hundreds.


Funny, I handed out free water one time and that's EXACTLY what happened.
 
2012-09-04 11:30:45 PM
If she stood on the sidewalk, she's be popped for blocking pedestrian traffic.
 
2012-09-04 11:33:30 PM
Was it good bottled water or was it nasty-ass Arrowhead bottled water?
 
2012-09-04 11:35:16 PM

I_Am_Weasel: Therein is the problem. Businesses pay good money to be able to sell their water at absurd mark-ups. If someone gives water away for free, there goes those sales and that profit. We can't have her going and putting thousand of people out of work, businesses shuttered, taxes not being paid, the city declares bankruptcy and rabid dogs wander free killing children by the hundreds.


Hundreds of dogs or hundreds of children? It's important for me to be able to make a determination on your comment.
 
2012-09-04 11:39:49 PM
Too much government if this is a problem.

m4.wayin.us
 
2012-09-04 11:41:30 PM
I hate christians as much as any true American should, but this lady seems pretty much OK in my book.
 
2012-09-04 11:42:04 PM
Render unto Caesar, you water-dispensing biatch.
 
2012-09-04 11:48:17 PM
Yeah yeah. Everyone's up in arms that Big Government stopped this lady from handing out bottles of water. What if no one stopped her and the bottles of water she was handing out were laced with something that made a bunch of people sick? Everyone would be mad at the police and government for not stopping her.
 
2012-09-04 11:49:53 PM
Nuking Arizona from orbit - you know, just to be sure - would effect little change in the quality of life of the retards who still choose to live in Arizona.

I'm at a loss here. Any ideas?
 
2012-09-04 11:56:08 PM
Christian beliefs my arse. Jebus would've gave wine to people. That's in the Bible.
 
2012-09-04 11:56:35 PM

silverjets: Yeah yeah. Everyone's up in arms that Big Government stopped this lady from handing out bottles of water. What if no one stopped her and the bottles of water she was handing out were laced with something that made a bunch of people sick? Everyone would be mad at the police and government for not stopping her.


Or at least not being able to track her down through a permit after the fact.

I once bought a grilled cheese sandwich laced with LSD at a Phish concert. Wish that microbus had a permit I could use to track them down.
 
2012-09-04 11:56:55 PM

siyuntz: How hard is it to obtain a permit? Does it cost a lot? Because I'd at least want her name and DL# written down somewhere just in case she was giving out Jonestown Kool-Aid instead of water. Though, I probably wouldn't ingest something given to me by a religious nutjob stranger, anyway, so there's that.

/Go away, poor persecuted Christian


I wonder how many farkers went into that story expecting to be outraged at the city, then saw it was a christian and their anti-christian hate made them do a 180 and find ways to support the city for actions they had just found reprehensible 2 seconds earlier.
 
2012-09-04 11:59:00 PM

optikeye: alienated: City ordinances, how do they work again ? i am not saying i agree with it, but hey- change the law then...

You overlooked a detail there. " giving away goods, wares, or merchandise or food from either a mobile vending unit or a mobile food vending unit."

It doesn't look like it was as "vending unit" IMHO, as "vending" usually means there's some exchange of money.


No, vending just means you've got a bunch of product on-hand and are distributing it. A big ice chest full of water bottles would, in fact, be a vending unit if it's being used to distribute said water.

I would also venture that the basic ordinance is more a traffic issue than anything else. Some dude handing out free shiat from a cart disrupts foot traffic just as much as some dude selling shiat from a cart, it actually makes sense for them to chip in for the cost of ameliorating said traffic disruption. All of the other people doing it are fine with supporting the various cops, crossing guards, etc that have to put in overtime for the event, no reason this woman should be special.

And, all that said, they gave her a warning, explained the situation to her, and asked her to show some consideration for the city and people around her in general, then expected her to act like, you know, a goddamned adult and comply. They didn't charge her with anything, fine her, or do anything other than politely explain the area of law that she may have missed. She, and this organization, are the ones being farkers about this, the city seems to be perfectly willing to grant her the permit if she plays by the rules like literally everyone else involved in the event.

//As for the freedom of speech/religion issue, did she apply for the permit on being informed it was necessary and get rejected? No? Then there's no discrimination or regulation of speech involved and she should fark off.
//I have little patience for people that can't perform the basic duties of citizenship like getting permits for distributing shiat on the street. If they're aware but don't have the money or whatever that's difference, but this sort of willful unwillingness to abide by the damned social contract just because someone feels they're a special snowflake is more than irresponsible enough to piss me off.
 
2012-09-04 11:59:26 PM

Githerax: O'er the land of the brave
and the home of the free.

/guess which country that anthem is from


Umm, well, it's not from the US anyway.
 
2012-09-05 12:00:32 AM

Psycoholic_Slag: Was it good bottled water or was it nasty-ass Arrowhead bottled water?


you do realize all bottled water comes from the same tap within the Cleveland city limits, right?

/well, maybe I made that up, but "good" bottled water differs from "cheap" bottled water only in the size of the advertising budget.
 
2012-09-05 12:03:58 AM
Lemonade was a popular drink and it still is.
 
2012-09-05 12:04:01 AM
Florida tag - check
Arizona tag - overdue
 
2012-09-05 12:09:36 AM

I sound fat: Psycoholic_Slag: Was it good bottled water or was it nasty-ass Arrowhead bottled water?

you do realize all bottled water comes from the same tap within the Cleveland city limits, right?

/well, maybe I made that up, but "good" bottled water differs from "cheap" bottled water only in the size of the advertising budget.


I don't think it's a price thing. My tap water tastes as good as most bottled water but Arrowhead must bottle toilet water cause that sh*t is naaaasteee!
 
2012-09-05 12:15:16 AM

FARTNOISE FARTNOISE JUNIOR: silverjets: Yeah yeah. Everyone's up in arms that Big Government stopped this lady from handing out bottles of water. What if no one stopped her and the bottles of water she was handing out were laced with something that made a bunch of people sick? Everyone would be mad at the police and government for not stopping her.

Or at least not being able to track her down through a permit after the fact.

I once bought a grilled cheese sandwich laced with LSD at a Phish concert. Wish that microbus had a permit I could use to track them down.


There are two things here that make me believe you have no sense of self preservation.
 
2012-09-05 12:17:59 AM
Does anyone in this article actually know what it feels like to be sitting on a bench in busy down town Phoenix when it's 110+ degrees outside? Don't think you'd be biatching about ordinances if some lady handed you an unopened bottle of water.
 
2012-09-05 12:24:31 AM

Jim_Callahan: optikeye: alienated: City ordinances, how do they work again ? i am not saying i agree with it, but hey- change the law then...

You overlooked a detail there. " giving away goods, wares, or merchandise or food from either a mobile vending unit or a mobile food vending unit."

It doesn't look like it was as "vending unit" IMHO, as "vending" usually means there's some exchange of money.

No, vending just means you've got a bunch of product on-hand and are distributing it. A big ice chest full of water bottles would, in fact, be a vending unit if it's being used to distribute said water.

I would also venture that the basic ordinance is more a traffic issue than anything else. Some dude handing out free shiat from a cart disrupts foot traffic just as much as some dude selling shiat from a cart, it actually makes sense for them to chip in for the cost of ameliorating said traffic disruption. All of the other people doing it are fine with supporting the various cops, crossing guards, etc that have to put in overtime for the event, no reason this woman should be special.

And, all that said, they gave her a warning, explained the situation to her, and asked her to show some consideration for the city and people around her in general, then expected her to act like, you know, a goddamned adult and comply. They didn't charge her with anything, fine her, or do anything other than politely explain the area of law that she may have missed. She, and this organization, are the ones being farkers about this, the city seems to be perfectly willing to grant her the permit if she plays by the rules like literally everyone else involved in the event.

//As for the freedom of speech/religion issue, did she apply for the permit on being informed it was necessary and get rejected? No? Then there's no discrimination or regulation of speech involved and she should fark off.
//I have little patience for people that can't perform the basic duties of citizenship like getting permits for distributing shiat on the street. If they're aware but don't have the money or whatever that's difference, but this sort of willful unwillingness to abide by the damned social contract just because someone feels they're a special snowflake is more than irresponsible enough to piss me off.


You, sir, are part of the problem.
 
2012-09-05 12:25:14 AM

I_Am_Weasel: optikeye:

It doesn't look like it was as "vending unit" IMHO, as "vending" usually means there's some exchange of money.

Therein is the problem. Businesses pay good money to be able to sell their water at absurd mark-ups. If someone gives water away for free, there goes those sales and that profit. We can't have her going and putting thousand of people out of work, businesses shuttered, taxes not being paid, the city declares bankruptcy and rabid dogs wander free killing children by the hundreds.


It is illegal to not give away free water if someone asks, in Az.
 
2012-09-05 12:30:56 AM
Stupid rules ruin everything. That said, she might have been attracting quite a crowd giving away free water.
 
2012-09-05 12:34:42 AM

LavenderWolf: I_Am_Weasel: optikeye:

It doesn't look like it was as "vending unit" IMHO, as "vending" usually means there's some exchange of money.

Therein is the problem. Businesses pay good money to be able to sell their water at absurd mark-ups. If someone gives water away for free, there goes those sales and that profit. We can't have her going and putting thousand of people out of work, businesses shuttered, taxes not being paid, the city declares bankruptcy and rabid dogs wander free killing children by the hundreds.

It is illegal to not give away free water if someone asks, in Az.


It is illegal to ask for water in AZ if it will be used on, in, or near brown people.
 
2012-09-05 12:54:58 AM
What if was water with LSD?.
 
2012-09-05 12:58:37 AM
It is illegal to not give away free water if someone asks, in Az.

That's what I was told in Arizona as well. I visited this summer and was in a store and the store owner suddenly asked if I wanted some water and when I said how nice that was of her to offer, she said that actually she carries a whole frig of bottled water in the back room because it is illegal to not give water to a person who asks. She gave our whole group water bottles. We were already buying something from her, so I don't think she lost anything from it and we were happy because it was already a hot day and the water was nice and cold.

Apparently, in the desert, there was a concern that people could die from the heat if there wasn't a law to keep people from hoarding water from others.

How does this impact this case? I don't know. I DNRTFA. 

/first slashie from a long-time lurker who is just starting to comment (finally got a login)
//be gentle
///this is fun; I usually just comment out loud to whoever is around about what I am reading
 
2012-09-05 01:04:14 AM
Me Chinese,

Me play joke...
 
2012-09-05 01:06:05 AM
Good thing she decided to wrap it all in religion, I haven't heard someone try and use that as an excuse to violate the law yet today, and it's getting awfully close to the end of the day.

Just comply with the law lady, those aren't there to make your life horrible, no matter what the unwashed masses of the internet tell you. For one, they're there to give people a way to track you if you're handing out a tainted product, as somebody else mention upthread.
 
2012-09-05 01:10:50 AM

Psycoholic_Slag: I sound fat: Psycoholic_Slag: Was it good bottled water or was it nasty-ass Arrowhead bottled water?

you do realize all bottled water comes from the same tap within the Cleveland city limits, right?

/well, maybe I made that up, but "good" bottled water differs from "cheap" bottled water only in the size of the advertising budget.

I don't think it's a price thing. My tap water tastes as good as most bottled water but Arrowhead must bottle toilet water cause that sh*t is naaaasteee!


Phoenix tap water tastes like absolute shiat. Horrible stuff, AND it comes out of the tap lukewarm to hot, even in the winter. Despite what the 'great scams of the 20th century' lists like to claim, there is a difference between local tap water and bottled water. The difference might just be good filtration, but it's a night and day difference.

Once again Phoenix tap water is nasty, most likely a plot by Satan, but it could also be all of the chemicals they add to make it 'drinkable'...
 
2012-09-05 01:12:55 AM

Bonanza Jellybean:


Get off your ass and go scavving! Get your own!

/why yes, my character is very evil
//I'm ok with this
///eeeevil slashies!
 
2012-09-05 01:24:37 AM

edmo: Phoenix didn't use to be this way, at least 25 years ago. Course half of California Minnesota and Michigan hadn't moved in yet either.


FTFY
 
2012-09-05 01:25:49 AM
I keep cases of water in my car at all times.

CSS:

Once upon a time, I was stuck in a really bad traffic jam; the kind where no one moves for a few hours. It was in the middle of August and the heat was in the triple digits. As luck would have it, I'd just come from Costco and had 6 cases of bottled water in the back of my car. mr. teeny and I walked about a 1/2 mile in each direction, offering water for those who needed it most. There were several cars with small children and 2 pregnant women that nearly fainted with relief when we came by.

/only fuggin' nazi bastards would arrest someone for giving away WATER. In phoenix, for crying out loud.
 
2012-09-05 01:33:26 AM
I think I missed the part of the article where they described her mobile vending unit, or whatever they call it. Does it count if she's got the water bottles in a simple bucket or cooler?

Really, isn't this the kind of ordinance meant to deter people who operate food trucks without a permit?
 
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