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(NBC News)   Summer is almost over, and you know what that means. Yes, California is on fire again   (usnews.nbcnews.com) divider line 51
    More: Scary, Angeles National Forest, wildfires  
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2960 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Sep 2012 at 3:19 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-04 02:37:00 PM  
why do they keep putting these fires out?
clearly putting them out does nothing to prevent them from happening again next year.

sigh
YES, I know that the answer is infinitely more complicated.
BUT, I also know that nothing (or little) is being done to prevent these things in the first place.
 
2012-09-04 03:22:49 PM  
When is California NOT on fire?
 
2012-09-04 03:23:07 PM  
Burn, motherfarker, BURN
 
2012-09-04 03:23:31 PM  
Was that a farking DC-10 air tanker? I've been into aviation since a kid and never seen one of those.. Bad ass..
 
2012-09-04 03:25:20 PM  

namatad: why do they keep putting these fires out?
clearly putting them out does nothing to prevent them from happening again next year.

sigh
YES, I know that the answer is infinitely more complicated.
BUT, I also know that nothing (or little) is being done to prevent these things in the first place.


Hint: they go out by themselves anyway.

And what the hell do you mean, "nothing is being done to prevent them"?? First off, yes, a lot is being done, like fire and burning restrictions in the summer, banning fireworks, massive tickets for tossing a lit cigarette out the window, criminal charges including murder for arsonists.

Second--what exactly do you think we should be doing to "prevent" a fire in a region bigger than half the East Coast, mostly desert and chaparral, and places as rugged and inaccessible as the grand canyon. Soak the 3/4 of a million acres of the Angeles Forest in water? Fires are allowed to burn in non-residential areas, so I'm not even sure what you're complaining about.
 
2012-09-04 03:26:46 PM  
The State of California has changed its name to State of Emergency

/One of my favorite "Critic" openings
 
2012-09-04 03:26:54 PM  
clean up the brush in the forest, tree-huggers
 
2012-09-04 03:31:45 PM  

stirfrybry: clean up the brush in the forest, tree-huggers


Quit attempting to suppress forest fires in the West, thereby allowing years of fuel to accumulate, USFS. California is supposed to have these fires this time of year. Nature cannot help that humans try to exist in a fire-prone region.
 
2012-09-04 03:32:54 PM  

wxboy: When is California NOT on fire?


When winter is is coming, I guess.
 
2012-09-04 03:33:15 PM  

namatad: BUT, I also know that nothing (or little) is being done to prevent these things in the first place.


I thought we weren't supposed to prevent them. Wildfires are supposed to happen to clear out all the dead plant material and let the forest grow better.

We should probably be setting them on purpose, on a frequent schedule, to keep them small and manageable.
 
2012-09-04 03:33:25 PM  
This is what happens when those godless heathens forget to pray.

images.politico.com
 
2012-09-04 03:36:06 PM  

CygnusDarius: wxboy: When is California NOT on fire?

When winter is is coming, I guess.


No, no, after winter. There are only two seasons here, wet and dry.
 
2012-09-04 03:47:24 PM  
Meh. Just moved to Helena MT. It's smelled like a campfire here all summer.
 
2012-09-04 03:49:13 PM  

Gyrfalcon: No, no, after winter. There are only two seasons here, wet and dry.


When I lived in California there was "earthquake" season, "mud slide" season, "wildfire" season, and "summer" have things changed?
 
2012-09-04 03:49:35 PM  
See all those dots in the N. Rockies? We're downwind of all of those.

http://activefiremaps.fs.fed.us/lg_fire2.php
 
2012-09-04 03:51:44 PM  
namatad

why do they keep putting these fires out?
clearly putting them out does nothing to prevent them from happening again next year.

sigh
YES, I know that the answer is infinitely more complicated.
BUT, I also know that nothing (or little) is being done to prevent these things in the first place. 


They keep putting them out to protect peoples homes and property.

You're correct, putting them out does nothing to prevent future fires, in fact it causes even more destructive fires due to the accumulation of excessive amounts of fuel.

What can be done.

Prescribed burns are effective but unpopular with people due to the smoke produced, which pales in comparison to the smoke of a catastrophic fire (and the loss of their house)

Fire is part of forest ecology and has been for millions of years, suppressing fires is one of the stupidest things man has done....sigh
 
2012-09-04 03:54:57 PM  
Funfact: Much of southwest Cali is what we call a chaparral biome. The funny thing about chaparral is that many of the plants there actually adapted to the occasional fire, so much that some species of pine actually need it for their cones to release the seeds. Many trees also have adapted to be able to live through wildfires Problem is, since we've been staving off wildfires for so long, the underbrush grows so thick that the fires burn much hotter than what they did when unhindered meaning those trees will die when one manages to roll through them.
 
2012-09-04 03:56:25 PM  

Old_Fark: Gyrfalcon: No, no, after winter. There are only two seasons here, wet and dry.

When I lived in California there was "earthquake" season, "mud slide" season, "wildfire" season, and "summer" have things changed?


Ever since the Reckoner came, things have changed.

/Stupid Ghost Rock bombs
//Obscure?
 
2012-09-04 03:58:27 PM  
I remember hearing about some valley in SoCal that's notorious for brush fires. A couple that just had their house burned to the ground were interviewed on the news. The woman said "Oh, we just love it here! It's so beautiful! We're going to rebuild!" This wasn't the first time I'd heard this.

My question is: How do these people keep getting fire insurance? I'm pretty sure they're not paying out-of-pocket to rebuild.
 
2012-09-04 04:04:57 PM  
www.kctunes.com

These guys know what's up.
 
2012-09-04 04:07:51 PM  
Old_Fark: When I lived in California there was "earthquake" season, "mud slide" season, "wildfire" season, and "summer" have things changed?

Don't forget that every other leap year we also have "riot" season.
 
2012-09-04 04:09:59 PM  

stirfrybry: clean up the brush in the forest, tree-huggers


The "forest" in question is primarily brush. Not really much to clean up. At least not before the fire.
 
2012-09-04 04:13:14 PM  
I've heard eucalyptus is kicking up even more fire than there used to be around there, and as above California is supposed to have fires regularly.
 
2012-09-04 04:14:17 PM  

Gyrfalcon: CygnusDarius: wxboy: When is California NOT on fire?

When winter is is coming, I guess.

No, no, after winter. There are only two seasons here, wet and dry.


California has four seasons, like all the other states.
Fire, Flood, Earthquake, and Riot.
 
2012-09-04 04:27:51 PM  

styckx: Was that a farking DC-10 air tanker? I've been into aviation since a kid and never seen one of those.. Bad ass..


There should be 2 converted now by 10Tanker. One DC-10-10 and one DC-10-30.

Just wait till next year when the MD-87s come online.
 
2012-09-04 04:28:18 PM  

New Age Redneck: namatad

why do they keep putting these fires out?
clearly putting them out does nothing to prevent them from happening again next year.

sigh
YES, I know that the answer is infinitely more complicated.
BUT, I also know that nothing (or little) is being done to prevent these things in the first place. 

They keep putting them out to protect peoples homes and property.

You're correct, putting them out does nothing to prevent future fires, in fact it causes even more destructive fires due to the accumulation of excessive amounts of fuel.

What can be done.

Prescribed burns are effective but unpopular with people due to the smoke produced, which pales in comparison to the smoke of a catastrophic fire (and the loss of their house)

Fire is part of forest ecology and has been for millions of years, suppressing fires is one of the stupidest things man has done....sigh


It doesn't help that (in socal) houses are now commonly built in what is called the "wildland/urban interface." Whose fault is it when they burn? The municipality for permitting them to be built? The owner for being ignorant or not minding their clearances? I resent that people think that wildland firefighters doing structure protection against all the safety rules of firefighting are at fault.

Anyway...

It's not like Rx burns are just a matter of picking an area and setting it off. It's at least a year of studies and assessment, followed by six months to a year of preparing the area (dozer or hand line, etc), getting the money to fund the 'shot and engine crews, finding a weather window to do it in... and all the red tape required by AQMD (in CA, anyway), the local, state and fed agencies who have their noses in it, AND the environmentalists. Three years of prep and money spent can be wasted if there's one endangered creature in the area, or if the prevailing winds are blowing the wrong direction for a safe burn. Rx burns are a massive (albeit necessary) pain in the ass.

The fuel loading is such that it's common to lose a "control burn." Can't win for losing.

//and Santa Ana season is coming, too
///joy
 
2012-09-04 04:38:53 PM  

Grapple: Burn, motherfarker, BURN


An take Texas with you.
 
2012-09-04 04:43:54 PM  
Don't worry, the earthquakes will shake the fires out.
 
2012-09-04 04:47:46 PM  
raptusregaliter

It doesn't help that (in socal) houses are now commonly built in what is called the "wildland/urban interface." Whose fault is it when they burn? The municipality for permitting them to be built? The owner for being ignorant or not minding their clearances? I resent that people think that wildland firefighters doing structure protection against all the safety rules of firefighting are at fault. 

Yeah, interesting constraints for sure. We're lucky here that we have folks with years of wildfire experience who have educated both our local gov't and citizens and manged to get provincial funding to implement a fuel mitigation program. I would think the insurance companies would get on board as if spending maybe a few hundred thousand to save millions in property damage makes sense.
As far as prescribed burns, yes large scale ones are tricky to manage. Small scale ones can provide enough of a buffer to protect homes on the interface, it is just a matter of who will do the work and who will pay.
Blaming the firefighters is reprehensible. My buddy is a faller who works fires here in BC. During the Kelowna fire here he was falling trees that would have spread fires to many houses and saved numerous peoples residences. The firefighters actions are nothing short of heroic.
 
2012-09-04 04:54:04 PM  

Gyrfalcon: CygnusDarius: wxboy: When is California NOT on fire?

When winter is is coming, I guess.

No, no, after winter. There are only two seasons here, wet and dry.


No. The 2 seasons are fire and earthquake.
 
2012-09-04 04:59:30 PM  
Funfact: Much of southwest Cali burns frequently.

Try dropping money on it directly. Because dropping water doesn't seem to work too well
 
2012-09-04 05:32:12 PM  
Oregon, Nevada, New Mexico, Montana, California, and Idaho collectively have about 5 million acres on fire right now. But yeah, by all means, let's talk about Los Angeles.
 
2012-09-04 05:34:59 PM  

Old_Fark: Gyrfalcon: No, no, after winter. There are only two seasons here, wet and dry.

When I lived in California there was "earthquake" season, "mud slide" season, "wildfire" season, and "summer" have things changed?


Yeah, nowadays earthquakes can happen any time of year, we renamed "mud slide season" to "rainy season" and combined "wildfire season" and "summer" into "dry season."
 
2012-09-04 05:40:33 PM  

namatad: why do they keep putting these fires out?
clearly putting them out does nothing to prevent them from happening again next year.

sigh
YES, I know that the answer is infinitely more complicated.
BUT, I also know that nothing (or little) is being done to prevent these things in the first place.


The real question should be why do people keep buying houses in the areas that are prone to fires? These fires are part of nature's cycle and occur every year. It seems pretty stupid to me to buy or build a house in an area that you know will probably burn every year.
 
2012-09-04 05:45:20 PM  

Deman: [www.kctunes.com image 367x278]

These guys know what's up.


Came for Bad Religion, leaving satisfied.
 
2012-09-04 05:48:33 PM  

Grapple: Burn, motherfarker, BURN


The only thing that needs to DIAF is you. These are real people and real homes.

People who make comments such as yours in threads about hurricanes or tornadoes are vilified, so consider this your vilification. California is not fair game if Texas and Louisiana aren't.
 
2012-09-04 05:52:54 PM  

ImpendingCynic: Grapple: Burn, motherfarker, BURN

The only thing that needs to DIAF is you. These are real people and real homes.

People who make comments such as yours in threads about hurricanes or tornadoes are vilified, so consider this your vilification. California is not fair game if Texas and Louisiana aren't.


Lighten up, Francis.
 
2012-09-04 06:14:59 PM  

CygnusDarius: Old_Fark: Gyrfalcon: No, no, after winter. There are only two seasons here, wet and dry.

When I lived in California there was "earthquake" season, "mud slide" season, "wildfire" season, and "summer" have things changed?

Ever since the Reckoner came, things have changed.

/Stupid Ghost Rock bombs
//Obscure?


What'll it take to redirect the flames? Will a full house do it?

/Nothing is obscure on Fark.
 
2012-09-04 06:18:33 PM  

bdub77: This is what happens when those godless heathens forget to pray.

[images.politico.com image 605x328]


Err, last time they prayed, the fires got WORSE, so...
 
2012-09-04 06:34:37 PM  
Got to burn out the weeds and invasives for winter, when it's the time to slow burn the native flora and fauna in preparation of spring.
 
2012-09-04 07:08:26 PM  

Fuggin Bizzy: Oregon, Nevada, New Mexico, Montana, California, and Idaho collectively have about 5 million acres on fire right now. But yeah, by all means, let's talk about Los Angeles.


Californiaphobes need the chance to vent some fear and jealousy-driven hatred every few weeks or so, or they might explode. That's why Fark has these threads.
 
2012-09-04 07:08:46 PM  

stirfrybry: clean up the brush in the forest, tree-huggers


In much of the Southern California mountains, especially in the area of this fire, the "forest" is almost entirely brush. Dense, impenetrable Chaparral standing 6 to 10 feet high. It's quite a bit different than more northern ir higher elevation forests that have older growth trees with small brush between the trees that you can do a controlled burn on every decade or so. Once this stuff starts you're very hard pressed to put it out without decent, wide, fire breaks
 
2012-09-04 07:12:06 PM  
California only has two seasons; the dry season and the damp season. You can tell the difference by looking at the trees. If they're on fire, it's the dry season.
 
2012-09-04 07:23:26 PM  

Deman: These guys know what's up.


First thing I thought of... now I have that song stuck in my head
 
2012-09-04 08:56:28 PM  

UtileDysfunktion: I remember hearing about some valley in SoCal that's notorious for brush fires. A couple that just had their house burned to the ground were interviewed on the news. The woman said "Oh, we just love it here! It's so beautiful! We're going to rebuild!" This wasn't the first time I'd heard this.

My question is: How do these people keep getting fire insurance? I'm pretty sure they're not paying out-of-pocket to rebuild.


The same things applies to New Orleans. I just don't get it, personally.

Although maybe with CA I do get it. It really is a fantastically beautiful state. Stupidly, insanely expensive though, so count me out.
 
2012-09-04 08:56:44 PM  

Deman: [www.kctunes.com image 367x278]

These guys know what's up.


A placard reads the End of Days
 
2012-09-04 10:01:54 PM  

Fuggin Bizzy: Oregon, Nevada, New Mexico, Montana, California, and Idaho collectively have about 5 million acres on fire right now. But yeah, by all means, let's talk about Los Angeles.


My sentiments exactly.

lh3.googleusercontent.com
 
2012-09-04 10:11:31 PM  

Ehcks: namatad: BUT, I also know that nothing (or little) is being done to prevent these things in the first place.

I thought we weren't supposed to prevent them. Wildfires are supposed to happen to clear out all the dead plant material and let the forest grow better.

We should probably be setting them on purpose, on a frequent schedule, to keep them small and manageable.


They do, in fact, do controlled burns.
 
2012-09-04 10:20:54 PM  

namatad: why do they keep putting these fires out?
clearly putting them out does nothing to prevent them from happening again next year.

sigh
YES, I know that the answer is infinitely more complicated.
BUT, I also know that nothing (or little) is being done to prevent these things in the first place.


They DO do things to prevent them from burning places we don't want them to by making fire breaks and doing controlled burns.
But it's a poor idea to keep them from happening at all, even if you could (which you can't).


ongbok: The real question should be why do people keep buying houses in the areas that are prone to fires? These fires are part of nature's cycle and occur every year. It seems pretty stupid to me to buy or build a house in an area that you know will probably burn every year.


Usually the same regions don't burn year after year. They're on more of a 6 year schedule or so ;)


Osomatic: Fuggin Bizzy: Oregon, Nevada, New Mexico, Montana, California, and Idaho collectively have about 5 million acres on fire right now. But yeah, by all means, let's talk about Los Angeles.

Californiaphobes need the chance to vent some fear and jealousy-driven hatred every few weeks or so, or they might explode.


Makes sense to me.
 
2012-09-05 09:19:13 AM  

ImpendingCynic: Grapple: Burn, motherfarker, BURN

The only thing that needs to DIAF is you. These are real people and real homes.

People who make comments such as yours in threads about hurricanes or tornadoes are vilified, so consider this your vilification. California is not fair game if Texas and Louisiana aren't.


Having lived in California for a majority of my life... Please feel free to STFU.
 
2012-09-05 03:07:03 PM  
www.pineriversshs.eq.edu.au 

Sorry, just could not help my self.
 
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