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(NYPost)   Watch out Democrats, when the GOP talks about giving you the "push back" at your own convention, you'd better watch out   (nypost.com) divider line 146
    More: Interesting, GOP, Democrats, political convention, Republican, Jason Chaffetz, Martin O'Malley, Priebus, Mary Fallin  
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3383 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Sep 2012 at 1:37 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-04 03:25:47 PM

blastoh: Clint Eastwoods Chair: zappaisfrank: AnEvilGuest: Il Douchey: busy chillin': did I understand you correctly?

Not exactly. I'm saying that if opposition is your excuse for why Obama failed in his first term, he will only fail worse if he gets a second term. So rather than quibble over why it's not working, let's just concede that it's not working so we can turn the page.

replacing the party first members of congress is a good idea.

Term limits for every seat in Congress, just like most state legislatures have.

Actually, term limits are a two edged sword. You replace corrupt sitting legislator with corrupt party machines. Who picks the candidates? The political machine. And with constant churn, legislators never have any time to build up their own gravatas apart from that which put them in office.

The real problem is political parties. The Constitution was never designed with them in mind. It was intended to have each legislator be reasonably independent, focusing on the needs of their constituents. Every X amount of people were entitled to a representative. When the number of representative was capped at 435 we started getting perversions like a representative in PA representing 1,000,000 people vs a representative in Wyoming representing 40,000.

It is time for lottery system.

Want to be a congressmen? Fine, you pay a 20 dollar entrance fee and undergo a simple background check.... age, citizenship, no felonies.
If you pass, you go into a lottery.
We pick 6 names from the lottery, and two weeks later we have a runoff election.
Two weeks later, the general election.
You are not allowed to spend any money on your campaign.


Yeah, its a work in progess, but I think this is kinda where we need to head.


I like it!
 
2012-09-04 03:26:30 PM

dudemanbro: The "push back"? Is that along the lines of the "Dutch Rudder"?


More like "Dutch Oven".

/Did they come armed this time?
 
2012-09-04 03:26:47 PM

starsrift: randomization reduces the elements of character and reputation that a politician requires


Have you even looked at the Republican nominee? One could make a very compelling argument that having a good reputation and good character are disqualificatons nowadays.

A random off the street doesn't have connections, doesn't have backs to scratch, doesn't have kickbacks to give. That's something you cannot say of any other politician.
 
2012-09-04 03:30:04 PM

blastoh: Clint Eastwoods Chair: zappaisfrank: AnEvilGuest: Il Douchey: busy chillin': did I understand you correctly?

Not exactly. I'm saying that if opposition is your excuse for why Obama failed in his first term, he will only fail worse if he gets a second term. So rather than quibble over why it's not working, let's just concede that it's not working so we can turn the page.

replacing the party first members of congress is a good idea.

Term limits for every seat in Congress, just like most state legislatures have.

Actually, term limits are a two edged sword. You replace corrupt sitting legislator with corrupt party machines. Who picks the candidates? The political machine. And with constant churn, legislators never have any time to build up their own gravatas apart from that which put them in office.

The real problem is political parties. The Constitution was never designed with them in mind. It was intended to have each legislator be reasonably independent, focusing on the needs of their constituents. Every X amount of people were entitled to a representative. When the number of representative was capped at 435 we started getting perversions like a representative in PA representing 1,000,000 people vs a representative in Wyoming representing 40,000.

It is time for lottery system.

Want to be a congressmen? Fine, you pay a 20 dollar entrance fee and undergo a simple background check.... age, citizenship, no felonies.
If you pass, you go into a lottery.
We pick 6 names from the lottery, and two weeks later we have a runoff election.
Two weeks later, the general election.
You are not allowed to spend any money on your campaign.


Yeah, its a work in progess, but I think this is kinda where we need to head.


Better system: Randomly pick 100 randomly people from a district. Sequester them for 7 days. Have them pick a representative. If they can choose one unanimously they get a 4 year term. If a 3/5th majority, 3 year term. Simple majority 2 years. No election necessary.
 
2012-09-04 03:30:15 PM
the quarterback keeps losing games because his own players are tackling him. Do you replace the quarterback, or the players that don't know how to play deliberately sabotage the game?


FTFY
 
2012-09-04 03:32:48 PM

TsukasaK: starsrift: randomization reduces the elements of character and reputation that a politician requires

Have you even looked at the Republican nominee? One could make a very compelling argument that having a good reputation and good character are disqualificatons nowadays.

A random off the street doesn't have connections, doesn't have backs to scratch, doesn't have kickbacks to give. That's something you cannot say of any other politician.


A good point.
 
2012-09-04 03:34:43 PM
Oh what the hell...

image.spreadshirt.com
 
2012-09-04 03:35:34 PM

Dr Dreidel: What is that NDGT macro all about? I suspect is it feigned concern over the sarcastically-termed "badass"-ness, but from whence did it come?

// also, wasn't Romney the one saying that campaigning during the other convention was "degrading"?
// or is that only for Blah Presidents who campaign against Romney?


I've always assumed this is Steve Harvey. Thanks for educating me.
 
2012-09-04 03:41:47 PM

Mikey1969: The Republican National Committee has opened up shop inside the NASCAR Plaza...

Seems like they'll fit right in. Doesn't NASCAR always turn to the left, though? Can't explain that.


i47.tinypic.com
 
2012-09-04 03:42:55 PM

L Ron Hubbard's Last Fart: Mikey1969: The Republican National Committee has opened up shop inside the NASCAR Plaza...

Seems like they'll fit right in. Doesn't NASCAR always turn to the left, though? Can't explain that.

[i47.tinypic.com image 850x637]


so twirling, twirling twirling towards freedom?
 
2012-09-04 03:49:30 PM

skullkrusher: L Ron Hubbard's Last Fart: Mikey1969: The Republican National Committee has opened up shop inside the NASCAR Plaza...

Seems like they'll fit right in. Doesn't NASCAR always turn to the left, though? Can't explain that.

[i47.tinypic.com image 850x637]

so twirling, twirling twirling towards freedom?


I wouldn't spend too much time trying to make that joke stick, since you could say that they "keep turning left until they hit a brick wall"
 
2012-09-04 03:55:37 PM

Il Douchey: busy chillin': did I understand you correctly?

Not exactly. I'm saying that if opposition is your excuse for why Obama failed in his first term, he will only fail worse if he gets a second term. So rather than quibble over why it's not working, let's just concede that it's not working so we can turn the page.


I see, so because a bunch of douches won't work the guy we should vote for the douche that they will work with? that sounds like a great plan. By that logic, you would support any leader of a country as long as he had the support of his government?
 
2012-09-04 03:57:02 PM

Il Douchey: Calmamity: I'm certainly not better off than I was four years ago, but at least I know why, you obstructionist douche-weasels.

If you blame Obama's failure on GOP obstruction, you should know that the GOP will probably gain strength in both houses of Congress this year. So if Obama wins, it will mean even harder Obama failure, even more Obama excuses and you will be even worse off four years from now.

/We can't survive another term of failure, excuses and decline


So, voting for the people and policies that CAUSED the disaster is the only solution. Riiiiiggghhht. I see you aren't old enough to remember 2008.
 
2012-09-04 03:58:00 PM

DeaH: Il Douchey: CPennypacker: If you concede that the republican obstructionism was the cuase of the problems of the last 4 years, how can you still claim it was Obama that failed?

Because it was Obama that failed. It was caused by a variety of factors, but for the sake of argument, let's just say Obama's failure was entirely due to GOP obstruction. That obstruction will be more powerful next term, ergo, his failure would be more profound next term.

So, what you're saying is that the GOP will hold the country hostage unless we give into their terrorist demands? You're saying America should give into terrorist demands?


Reagan did, so yes.
 
2012-09-04 03:59:27 PM

blastoh: Clint Eastwoods Chair: zappaisfrank: AnEvilGuest: Il Douchey: busy chillin': did I understand you correctly?

Not exactly. I'm saying that if opposition is your excuse for why Obama failed in his first term, he will only fail worse if he gets a second term. So rather than quibble over why it's not working, let's just concede that it's not working so we can turn the page.

replacing the party first members of congress is a good idea.

Term limits for every seat in Congress, just like most state legislatures have.

Actually, term limits are a two edged sword. You replace corrupt sitting legislator with corrupt party machines. Who picks the candidates? The political machine. And with constant churn, legislators never have any time to build up their own gravatas apart from that which put them in office.

The real problem is political parties. The Constitution was never designed with them in mind. It was intended to have each legislator be reasonably independent, focusing on the needs of their constituents. Every X amount of people were entitled to a representative. When the number of representative was capped at 435 we started getting perversions like a representative in PA representing 1,000,000 people vs a representative in Wyoming representing 40,000.

It is time for lottery system.

Want to be a congressmen? Fine, you pay a 20 dollar entrance fee and undergo a simple background check.... age, citizenship, no felonies.
If you pass, you go into a lottery.
We pick 6 names from the lottery, and two weeks later we have a runoff election.
Two weeks later, the general election.
You are not allowed to spend any money on your campaign.


Yeah, its a work in progess, but I think this is kinda where we need to head.


Term limits are a bad idea. You just can't RUN a government without professional legislators. Real statesmen with real working knowledge of how a country is run. People with actual civic knowledge who have passed their share of omnibus spending bills.

I think what we need though is a structural overhaul so that we can capture what is good and what is bad about our legislators. Things like social issues and budgeting need to be informed by a broad range of viewpoints. Subcommittee on transportation? Put some old guys on there. Defense? Sure. Anything to do with science, or technology, or other issues that are evolving more and more rapidly in our society like copyright? Form a third house of congress that covers nothing but emerging science and technology. Make half of them direct elections. 2 "Science Senators," per state, and have a combination of accreditation boards, college faculty senates, and professional organizations like SAE and elect the other half.
 
2012-09-04 03:59:36 PM

Mikey1969: We should all strive to do a good "jorb"...

Sorry, that one was too good to pass up.


You continue to fit nicely in the color I have placed you.
 
2012-09-04 04:03:40 PM

Mikey1969: TheMysticS: Good jorb

We should all strive to do a good "jorb"...

Sorry, that one was too good to pass up.


Drink in that bun!

/loves me some bros. Chaps
 
2012-09-04 04:14:41 PM

James F. Campbell: Mikey1969: We should all strive to do a good "jorb"...

Sorry, that one was too good to pass up.

You continue to fit nicely in the color I have placed you.


I hope it's a 'good' color...
 
2012-09-04 04:30:07 PM

that bosnian sniper: Fart_Machine: So what you're saying is that we should elect Romney so the GOP can fast track the failure unopposed. Sounds like quite the plan there.

I know more than a few people across the socialist spectrum, from full-on Marxist-Leninist all the way to Democratic Socialist, who are voting Romney for exactly that reason. Were I to ever vote Romney, that would be why.

The extreme left believes a Romney administration would be such an utter, unforgettable train wreck that it will cause an unprecedentedly hard, nationwide, swing to the left unprecedented by even the leftward swing during the FDR administration. Therefore, quite a few are voting for him.

What does that say about Romney as a candidate, here?


I somewhat expected that after the collapse at the end of the Bush administration to be honest. And at the time, it made a lot of sense: "Well, at least these's a silver lining - no one now living will ever be stupid enough to vote for Republican economic policies again!"

Oh, lordie of Lords, if only I had known...
 
2012-09-04 04:36:36 PM

vartian: [oi47.tinypic.com image 525x300]


Is it just my over-tuned antennae or is thee one screaming hell of a racist dog-whistle in that banner behind those guys?
 
2012-09-04 04:36:52 PM

skullkrusher: or just went through the proper channels to get a permit for a definite period of time


Cops intent on breaking up a demonstration aren't going to be deterred by a valid permit...
 
2012-09-04 04:40:20 PM

Super_pope: Term limits are a bad idea. You just can't RUN a government without professional legislators. Real statesmen with real working knowledge of how a country is run. People with actual civic knowledge who have passed their share of omnibus spending bills.

I think what we need though is a structural overhaul so that we can capture what is good and what is bad about our legislators. Things like social issues and budgeting need to be informed by a broad range of viewpoints. Subcommittee on transportation? Put some old guys on there. Defense? Sure. Anything to do with science, or technology, or other issues that are evolving more and more rapidly in our society like copyright? Form a third house of congress that covers nothing but emerging science and technology. Make half of them direct elections. 2 "Science Senators," per state, and have a combination of accreditation boards, college faculty senates, and professional organizations like SAE and elect the other half.



I think the bigger problem is that the people governing may understand politics and legislature, but they don't understand what it is they're actually governing anymore. Being a profession politician makes them so far detached from what "normal" people go through, that they can't possibly understand what they're doing. Why should they care about healthcare for the poor when they have the best healthcare available and can be made exempt from any changes they institute. Why worry about wage fairness when you get to directly vote for your own salary.

Also: Bachmann on an intelligence committee and Akin on a science committee. We need a farking competency exam for these positions.
 
2012-09-04 04:44:11 PM

qorkfiend: skullkrusher: or just went through the proper channels to get a permit for a definite period of time

Cops intent on breaking up a demonstration aren't going to be deterred by a valid permit...


sure. How often does that happen? I am not aware of any permitted OWS protests that were broken up while the protesters weren't breaking the law or violating the permits
 
2012-09-04 04:51:41 PM

skullkrusher: qorkfiend: skullkrusher: or just went through the proper channels to get a permit for a definite period of time

Cops intent on breaking up a demonstration aren't going to be deterred by a valid permit...

sure. How often does that happen? I am not aware of any permitted OWS protests that were broken up while the protesters weren't breaking the law or violating the permits


With no outrage, there is no outrage. Fist pump the outrage!!!!!
 
2012-09-04 04:52:50 PM

Super_pope: Term limits are a bad idea. You just can't RUN a government without professional legislators. Real statesmen with real working knowledge of how a country is run. People with actual civic knowledge who have passed their share of omnibus spending bills.


Term limits could work... If someone knows they are in for 2 terms max, you'd think that they would, in the meantime, be grooming a few new candidates to take the reigns, then help them get elected. The only way to ensure the continuation of a parties' game plan would be to strengthen from within. Who really thinks they have a shot against a three or four term politician unless they are truly going senile or raped and murdered a girl in 1991?
 
2012-09-04 04:52:53 PM

ghare: So, voting for the people and policies that CAUSED the disaster is the only solution. Riiiiiggghhht. I see you aren't old enough to remember 2008.


Him and the Tea Party. I'm always amazed that a group of really-old looking toddlers could have organized so well...
 
2012-09-04 04:54:48 PM

AlwaysRightBoy: skullkrusher: qorkfiend: skullkrusher: or just went through the proper channels to get a permit for a definite period of time

Cops intent on breaking up a demonstration aren't going to be deterred by a valid permit...

sure. How often does that happen? I am not aware of any permitted OWS protests that were broken up while the protesters weren't breaking the law or violating the permits

With no outrage, there is no outrage. Fist pump the outrage!!!!!


lawful protests being broken up by the police WOULD be an outrage. It's just that we have rules that are necessary for society to function so the right to protest in any way you choose isn't absolute.
 
2012-09-04 05:02:54 PM

Pinner: Term limits could work... If someone knows they are in for 2 terms max, you'd think that they would, in the meantime, be grooming a few new candidates to take the reigns, then help them get elected.


No, they wouldn't. If a Congressional Representative knows they are in for two terms max, they would be currying favor to land a cushy job once they hit their term limit. The only reason this doesn't happen with the President is because Former President is a cushy job.

Pinner: Who really thinks they have a shot against a three or four term politician unless they are truly going senile or raped and murdered a girl in 1991?


Wouldn't this imply that the three or four term politician has the support of his or her electorate? If they're happy with their representative's performance, why would the electorate vote for someone else? Why should they be forced to vote for someone else?
 
2012-09-04 05:03:33 PM

Il Douchey: CPennypacker: Your answer to my question is "because" and then you just repeated your bad argument again. You're a true gem.

I think we're having communication difficulties. Let's try it this way:

Your quarterback keeps losing football games, but it's only because the other team has such a good defense. Next year their defense will be even better, but your quarterback won't be. You can't get rid of the other team, but you can bench your quarterback. Or, you can keep losing by even larger margins


yes, but does using the quarterback from the opposing team make things better, or will he throw the game so you lose even worse?
 
2012-09-04 05:11:41 PM
The DNC just finished the opening prayer, pledge of allegiance, and national anthem. C-span has a live stream if people want to watch.
 
2012-09-04 05:28:24 PM

skullkrusher: AlwaysRightBoy: skullkrusher: qorkfiend: skullkrusher: or just went through the proper channels to get a permit for a definite period of time

Cops intent on breaking up a demonstration aren't going to be deterred by a valid permit...

sure. How often does that happen? I am not aware of any permitted OWS protests that were broken up while the protesters weren't breaking the law or violating the permits

With no outrage, there is no outrage. Fist pump the outrage!!!!!

lawful protests being broken up by the police WOULD be an outrage. It's just that we have rules that are necessary for society to function so the right to protest in any way you choose isn't absolute.



I applaud lawful protests, but when you step out of the element, you are on you're own. and the... well just say, that is very sad in some countries.
 
2012-09-04 05:33:57 PM

Il Douchey: Calmamity: I'm certainly not better off than I was four years ago, but at least I know why, you obstructionist douche-weasels.

If you blame Obama's failure on GOP obstruction, you should know that the GOP will probably gain strength in both houses of Congress this year. So if Obama wins, it will mean even harder Obama failure, even more Obama excuses and you will be even worse off four years from now.

/We can't survive another term of failure, excuses and decline


And we'll know who to thank.
 
2012-09-04 05:44:55 PM

Il Douchey: Calmamity: I'm certainly not better off than I was four years ago, but at least I know why, you obstructionist douche-weasels.

If you blame Obama's failure on GOP obstruction, you should know that the GOP will probably gain strength in both houses of Congress this year. So if Obama wins, it will mean even harder Obama failure, even more Obama excuses and you will be even worse off four years from now.

/We can't survive another term of failure, excuses and decline


And if Obama loses, we'll have another 4-8 years of the same cronyism, unfunded wars, tax cuts and general incompetence that got us into this mess in the first place. That is, the same Republican nonsense that has been a drag on this country since Reagan.
 
2012-09-04 05:54:17 PM

draa: Well no, I'm not better off than I was 4 years ago because I lost a nice little business in St Augustine around that time. With that being said, I still wouldn't vote for the assholes that caused me to lose my business... even if I was living in the woods right now. Most people remember who caused their problems and it wasn't Obama.


Not only who caused their problems, but conspired (yes, conspired) to make sure Obama couldn't solve them. Assholes is too kind a term.
 
2012-09-04 06:07:50 PM

Il Douchey: Calmamity: I'm certainly not better off than I was four years ago, but at least I know why, you obstructionist douche-weasels.

If you blame Obama's failure on GOP obstruction, you should know that the GOP will probably gain strength in both houses of Congress this year. So if Obama wins, it will mean even harder Obama failure, even more Obama excuses and you will be even worse off four years from now.

/We can't survive another term of failure, excuses and decline


So if you're opposed to everything the GOP stands for.... vote Republican anyway? Makes no sense, nor does the GOP platform.
 
2012-09-04 06:13:43 PM

TsukasaK: starsrift: randomization reduces the elements of character and reputation that a politician requires

Have you even looked at the Republican nominee? One could make a very compelling argument that having a good reputation and good character are disqualificatons nowadays.

A random off the street doesn't have connections, doesn't have backs to scratch, doesn't have kickbacks to give. That's something you cannot say of any other politician.


But as starsrift pointed out, they'll have pockets that aren't as full as they'd like them to be, and there's sure to be someone who can fix their little problem.
 
2012-09-04 06:15:52 PM

dletter: skullkrusher: L Ron Hubbard's Last Fart: Mikey1969: The Republican National Committee has opened up shop inside the NASCAR Plaza...

Seems like they'll fit right in. Doesn't NASCAR always turn to the left, though? Can't explain that.

[i47.tinypic.com image 850x637]

so twirling, twirling twirling towards freedom?

I wouldn't spend too much time trying to make that joke stick, since you could say that they "keep turning left until they hit a brick wall"


Actually, the brick wall is always to the right. Nothing but nice green grass on the left!
 
2012-09-04 06:52:52 PM

that bosnian sniper: Fart_Machine: So what you're saying is that we should elect Romney so the GOP can fast track the failure unopposed. Sounds like quite the plan there.

I know more than a few people across the socialist spectrum, from full-on Marxist-Leninist all the way to Democratic Socialist, who are voting Romney for exactly that reason. Were I to ever vote Romney, that would be why.

The extreme left believes a Romney administration would be such an utter, unforgettable train wreck that it will cause an unprecedentedly hard, nationwide, swing to the left unprecedented by even the leftward swing during the FDR administration. Therefore, quite a few are voting for him.

What does that say about Romney as a candidate, here?


I don't know what it says about Romney, but it tells me that the people who believe that (and I have seen them in the wild as well) have the attention span of a ferret and the common sense of a canned ham.
 
2012-09-04 07:09:37 PM

Magorn: vartian: [oi47.tinypic.com image 525x300]

Is it just my over-tuned antennae or is thee one screaming hell of a racist dog-whistle in that banner behind those guys?


IMHO your antennae are tuned well within spec.


/f*ckers
 
2012-09-04 08:10:42 PM
dtdstudios.com
 
2012-09-04 11:17:09 PM
I can't even make a response to this "are you better off" crap. If you think you'd be better off under Rmoney, then farking vote for him. Dumbass. When there's a giant smoking hole where the economy used to be, and when we're mired in another endless stupid overseas murder party, you can always blame Obama. And Jimmy Carter. And FDR. And teh ghey.
 
2012-09-04 11:21:48 PM
Why does the Republican party fark the country on the edge of a cliff?

So the country will push back.
 
2012-09-04 11:56:38 PM

Il Douchey: Calmamity: I'm certainly not better off than I was four years ago, but at least I know why, you obstructionist douche-weasels.

If you blame Obama's failure on GOP obstruction, you should know that the GOP will probably gain strength in both houses of Congress this year. So if Obama wins, it will mean even harder Obama failure, even more Obama excuses and you will be even worse off four years from now.

/We can't survive another term of failure, excuses and decline


If that's the case the Unites States reign as the world's preeminent nation is over. You will be handing the crown to China.

That goes for the scenario you posted or the alternative of Romney winning.
 
2012-09-05 03:32:38 AM

Mikey1969: I hope it's a 'good' color...


I have you labeled as "Independent" -- quotation marks and all -- and have put you in the same color as conservatives, Christians, libertarians, and "Both sides are bad."
 
2012-09-05 10:15:04 AM

James F. Campbell: Mikey1969: I hope it's a 'good' color...

I have you labeled as "Independent" -- quotation marks and all -- and have put you in the same color as conservatives, Christians, libertarians, and "Both sides are bad."


Well, I do consider myself an Independent, although I currently abhor the Republican Party. I guess if I fall in together with so many different groups, and I consider myself to currently lean more liberal, while some out there see me leaning more conservative, I must be doing the Independent thing right.
 
2012-09-06 07:28:53 PM

Mikey1969: James F. Campbell: Mikey1969: I hope it's a 'good' color...

I have you labeled as "Independent" -- quotation marks and all -- and have put you in the same color as conservatives, Christians, libertarians, and "Both sides are bad."

Well, I do consider myself an Independent, although I currently abhor the Republican Party. I guess if I fall in together with so many different groups, and I consider myself to currently lean more liberal, while some out there see me leaning more conservative, I must be doing the Independent thing right.


Honest question: How often do you find yourself voting for Republicans than not?
 
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