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(LA Times)   California bill would allow the courts to rule that a child has multiple moms and dads, maybe even one who is a turtle   (latimes.com) divider line 34
    More: Interesting, adoptees, nuclear family, biological father, parental rights  
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618 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Sep 2012 at 10:39 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-04 07:56:31 AM
Current law only allows two partners, whether they're a child's biological or adoptive parents, to be legally considered that child's parents.

How do Godparents fit in there?

Is the whole "will assume guardianship of the kids in case the unthinkable happens" a legal contract or a just a moral imperative thingy?

The daughter ended up in foster care because her biological father had no parental rights.

Cruel story, Bro. In the context of that case this new law makes sense.

/So obviously the GOP are gonna shiat puppies where they hear.
 
2012-09-04 08:16:21 AM
Godparent has no legal significance whatsoever, you just ask someone to do it and they agree or don't agree, it doesn't create any rights nor instill any legal requirements on the godparent. You can express your wishes of child placement to the godparents if both parents die at the same time or one after another. The court will give that wish, and it is only a wish, preference IF the court can find the godparents fit to take on responsibility AND the godparent agrees to take on the burden.
 
2012-09-04 09:11:32 AM
www.usnews.com

Hey, you leave me out of this.
 
2012-09-04 09:19:46 AM

mauricecano: Godparent has no legal significance whatsoever, you just ask someone to do it and they agree or don't agree, it doesn't create any rights nor instill any legal requirements on the godparent. You can express your wishes of child placement to the godparents if both parents die at the same time or one after another. The court will give that wish, and it is only a wish, preference IF the court can find the godparents fit to take on responsibility AND the godparent agrees to take on the burden.


Ah, TY for explanation. Always sorta wondered. Figured this thread would be a good place to ask.
 
2012-09-04 09:48:06 AM
Lawyers rejoice.
 
2012-09-04 09:54:04 AM
FTFA:
Imagine if a heterosexual couple had a baby but then divorced, and custody was awarded to the former husband and his new wife. Even if the stepmother raised the child from a young age, if a custody situation later arose, she would have no parental rights. That's not fair, either to the stepmother or the child.

It's never good to talk in absolutes. I can think of a lot of scenarios where it is fair.
 
2012-09-04 10:41:35 AM

minoridiot: FTFA:
Imagine if a heterosexual couple had a baby but then divorced, and custody was awarded to the former husband and his new wife. Even if the stepmother raised the child from a young age, if a custody situation later arose, she would have no parental rights. That's not fair, either to the stepmother or the child.

It's never good to talk in absolutes. I can think of a lot of scenarios where it is fair.


Its a good thing TFA doesn't say that they are all mandated to be legal guardians and have standard equal parentage rights then
 
2012-09-04 10:44:00 AM

minoridiot: FTFA:
Imagine if a heterosexual couple had a baby but then divorced, and custody was awarded to the former husband and his new wife. Even if the stepmother raised the child from a young age, if a custody situation later arose, she would have no parental rights. That's not fair, either to the stepmother or the child.

It's never good to talk in absolutes. I can think of a lot of scenarios where it is fair.


Only situation I can think of that would fit here would be say, a car accident. Takes out the live in parent and spouse, leaving the other parent with the choice of what to do about the child's care.

But under the current law, presumably, they wouldn't have any rights.
 
2012-09-04 10:46:06 AM
Another situation where this could be helpful is in the case of a surrogate mother for a childless couple (hetero or not), who wants the birth mother to stay involved in the child's life.
 
2012-09-04 10:47:04 AM
Mass Chaos!
 
2012-09-04 10:50:16 AM
I like the idea of giving courts leeway to address a messy family situation. I'd like it if they could have "custodians" as separate from "legal guardians" - sort of an "interim" title for things like temporary custody, or grandparents'/extended familial rights (what if they've been primary caretakers for years, just not on paper?)

Are there automatic custodial provisions in state law? Like, I know in some states, "common law" marriage kicks in once you've been cohabitation for a certain amount of time, and a breakup entitles the parties to "alimony", even without a marriage license. Does the same apply if a friend/relative has been the primary supporter of the kids - if you've supported the kid(s) financially and they've been living with you, does the state get to remove them to be placed with mom, who's been gallivanting around the country for the last decade with her new boyfriend Tex Wrecks?
 
2012-09-04 10:56:18 AM

Sybarite: [www.usnews.com image 300x300]

Hey, you leave me out of this.


I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of this.
 
2012-09-04 10:58:39 AM

quatchi: Current law only allows two partners, whether they're a child's biological or adoptive parents, to be legally considered that child's parents.

How do Godparents fit in there?

Is the whole "will assume guardianship of the kids in case the unthinkable happens" a legal contract or a just a moral imperative thingy?

The daughter ended up in foster care because her biological father had no parental rights.

Cruel story, Bro. In the context of that case this new law makes sense.

/So obviously the GOP are gonna shiat puppies where they hear.


My Wife had a sister who passed away unexpectedly leaving behind a three year old and a one and a half year old, both of whom were largely being raised by their grandmother. Two days after the funeral the bio-dad of one of the children, a guy who had up till then vehemently denied paternity and who had paid nary a dime in child support, showed up and demanded custody of the younger child. And the real biatch of it was, the law was 100% on his side. As the natural father , he legally had un-trumpable custody rights , despite his complete lack of involvement in the child's life
 
2012-09-04 11:00:26 AM
www.maniacworld.com

Approves.


/Oblig.
//And hot.
 
2012-09-04 11:03:01 AM
This is all gay marriage's fault. There were never any messy family court issues before gay marriage became so political that would require redefining "
"parent" like this. Curse you, Obama!
 
2012-09-04 11:04:02 AM
Not sure what happened to my formatting there. For that, I also blame gay marriage and Obama.
 
2012-09-04 11:07:07 AM
I married a turtle.
 
2012-09-04 11:07:43 AM

Dr Dreidel: I like the idea of giving courts leeway to address a messy family situation. I'd like it if they could have "custodians" as separate from "legal guardians" - sort of an "interim" title for things like temporary custody, or grandparents'/extended familial rights (what if they've been primary caretakers for years, just not on paper?)

Are there automatic custodial provisions in state law? Like, I know in some states, "common law" marriage kicks in once you've been cohabitation for a certain amount of time, and a breakup entitles the parties to "alimony", even without a marriage license. Does the same apply if a friend/relative has been the primary supporter of the kids - if you've supported the kid(s) financially and they've been living with you, does the state get to remove them to be placed with mom, who's been gallivanting around the country for the last decade with her new boyfriend Tex Wrecks?


The state of the law as it exists now is that the natural parents, without any action by the courts both have 100% custody rights to thier children, unless their parental rights have been terminated in a court proceeding (and they are entitled to a full judicial hearing and public defender for such proceedings) Moreover this right of control/custody, according the the US Supreme Court, is a Constitutional one and therefore cannot simply be extinguished by legislation. (some states have tried to automatically invalidate the parent rights fo debeat fathers or even surrogate mothers)

We do desperately need to update this area of the law to recognize the social and scientific changes that have occured in our society, so that intent and action count for more than biology.


To answer your other question: legal guardianship already exists and is more of less a temporary and usually voluntary granting of custodial rights to another, without formally transfering custody. And Custody further breaks down into two elements "Phyical custody" which is more or less wwhere and with whom the child will reside and "legal custdy" which involves having hte legal rights to make decisions that affect the child, such as consenting to a medical proceedure, or enrolling them in school, etc etc
 
2012-09-04 11:10:13 AM

Kome: This is all gay marriage's fault. There were never any messy family court issues before gay marriage became so political that would require redefining "
"parent" like this. Curse you, Obama!


Wait. I've been told the same-sex marriage thing would be no big deal to the courts. It's the polygamy that will have everything tied in knots if we allow it.
 
2012-09-04 11:10:56 AM

mauricecano: Godparent has no legal significance whatsoever, you just ask someone to do it and they agree or don't agree, it doesn't create any rights nor instill any legal requirements on the godparent. You can express your wishes of child placement to the godparents if both parents die at the same time or one after another. The court will give that wish, and it is only a wish, preference IF the court can find the godparents fit to take on responsibility AND the godparent agrees to take on the burden.


However you CAN put a clause in your will granting custody rights to a third person in the vent of your decease, and that grant of custody is legally binding so long as no one with superior custody rights is still living (Ie the other natural parent) a competent lawyer writing the will of a couple with children should add a clause designating custody, particularly in the even of "common disaster"
 
2012-09-04 11:19:54 AM

Magorn: (and they are entitled to a full judicial hearing and public defender for such proceedings)


A kangaroo Court with a public pretender, i feel so safe
 
2012-09-04 11:27:18 AM

Magorn: The state of the law as it exists now is that the natural parents, without any action by the courts both have 100% custody rights to thier children, unless their parental rights have been terminated in a court proceeding (and they are entitled to a full judicial hearing and public defender for such proceedings)


Just curious, but does that apply in situations where a woman gave birth to a child conceived of as a result of rape and the man was convicted? Does the rapist have 100% custody rights or does conviction for rape automatically terminate parental rights? Does it apply to physical or legal custody, or both?
 
2012-09-04 11:31:29 AM

Kome: Magorn: The state of the law as it exists now is that the natural parents, without any action by the courts both have 100% custody rights to thier children, unless their parental rights have been terminated in a court proceeding (and they are entitled to a full judicial hearing and public defender for such proceedings)

Just curious, but does that apply in situations where a woman gave birth to a child conceived of as a result of rape and the man was convicted? Does the rapist have 100% custody rights or does conviction for rape automatically terminate parental rights? Does it apply to physical or legal custody, or both?


GIS that - there's a chart been floating around for about a week - IIRC, 34 states grant parental rights to rapists.

// don't want to search for that at work
 
2012-09-04 11:40:54 AM
So which side is spinning this as a gay rights issue? The article outwardly leans one way to make it look like it's the left doing it, but, realistically, this has nothing to do with gay rights at all. It's a legal issue that many people have, regardless of sexual preference. I've been a parent to my stepson for the vast majority of his life, but if his mother dies custody will revert to the biological father because he has not forsaken his rights and the courts did not terminate his rights in custody proceedings(thus I cannot adopt). There are many more people in this arrangement than there are people like those described in the article. Based on reading the law, it would seem that this gives the courts leeway to determine that the surrogate parent(step parent) can be determined to be a "natural/adoptive" parent regardless of the actual parentage relationship with the child.

Basically, unless this is something to be determined at birth and placed on the birth certificate, which my review of the proposed law doesn't seem to indicate(it indicates that the court in custody proceedings can make a judgment in the best interest of the child regardless of true parentage), it's just a law that can allow a step parent(to put it simply) to have equal custody claims/rights as an absent biological parent. Great, yes please. Let's try not to spin this as something that will get it tied up in courts or voted down via initiative.
 
2012-09-04 11:50:03 AM

Kome: Magorn: The state of the law as it exists now is that the natural parents, without any action by the courts both have 100% custody rights to thier children, unless their parental rights have been terminated in a court proceeding (and they are entitled to a full judicial hearing and public defender for such proceedings)

Just curious, but does that apply in situations where a woman gave birth to a child conceived of as a result of rape and the man was convicted? Does the rapist have 100% custody rights or does conviction for rape automatically terminate parental rights? Does it apply to physical or legal custody, or both?


I believe there was a case recently where a rapist did, in fact, win parental rights?
 
2012-09-04 12:01:47 PM

Kome: Magorn: The state of the law as it exists now is that the natural parents, without any action by the courts both have 100% custody rights to thier children, unless their parental rights have been terminated in a court proceeding (and they are entitled to a full judicial hearing and public defender for such proceedings)

Just curious, but does that apply in situations where a woman gave birth to a child conceived of as a result of rape and the man was convicted? Does the rapist have 100% custody rights or does conviction for rape automatically terminate parental rights? Does it apply to physical or legal custody, or both?


I hate to say this, but absent further proceedings, that rapist is the natural father and legally entitled to superior custody rights than say, the Child's grandparents if something were to happen to the mom. I would VERY STRONGLY recommend to any such woman that she, as painful as it is going to be, to file a termination of parental rights action against the father (frankly the law should be changed that the state will do it for her free of charge). Him being a felon and a rapist and all is enough for a court to rule him as an unfit parent and extinguish his rights. (thought here are medieval-minded judges who, as a matter of policy, will basically refuse to terminate a father's rights unless someone else is taking them over- but even they, I HOPE would make an exception in a case like this
 
2012-09-04 12:10:27 PM

bhcompy: So which side is spinning this as a gay rights issue? The article outwardly leans one way to make it look like it's the left doing it, but, realistically, this has nothing to do with gay rights at all. It's a legal issue that many people have, regardless of sexual preference. I've been a parent to my stepson for the vast majority of his life, but if his mother dies custody will revert to the biological father because he has not forsaken his rights and the courts did not terminate his rights in custody proceedings(thus I cannot adopt). There are many more people in this arrangement than there are people like those described in the article. Based on reading the law, it would seem that this gives the courts leeway to determine that the surrogate parent(step parent) can be determined to be a "natural/adoptive" parent regardless of the actual parentage relationship with the child.

Basically, unless this is something to be determined at birth and placed on the birth certificate, which my review of the proposed law doesn't seem to indicate(it indicates that the court in custody proceedings can make a judgment in the best interest of the child regardless of true parentage), it's just a law that can allow a step parent(to put it simply) to have equal custody claims/rights as an absent biological parent. Great, yes please. Let's try not to spin this as something that will get it tied up in courts or voted down via initiative.


I hate to say this, but sometimes I consider myself very lucky that my son's (I don't care for the term "step") bio-father got his reckless ass killed in a bar fight a decade ago. It's tough on the kid to know that he'll never meet his biological dad, (espcially as he goes from "sour cream" German Irish in the Winter to "hispanic " in the summer) but in many ways a good thing overall
 
2012-09-04 01:26:46 PM
double the child support payments?
 
2012-09-04 01:29:53 PM
Other potential scenarios involving more than two parents can easily be imagined. Most will involve gay couples and an opposite-sex biological parent, but that needn't always be the case.

Yep. I run into this. My stepson is 17 this year. My wife has been with me 14 of those years. His father is still involved, but accepts that I am raising his kid. All is peachy, until the kid needs to be registered for school, get his driver's license, etc... I constantly run into areas where I can't speak for him, since I'm not the father on record. I will;l have the same issue with his brother, and there's nothing my wife can do to change it without legally separating her Ex from the boys, but that is never going to happen, we have no problems with the guy, so there's no reason to do this anyway. I'm actually surprised that we've never had issues with the Dr, but I bet if they stopped and asked, there would be plenty of times where i haven't had the "legal" authority to get them treated by the Dr.
 
2012-09-04 01:56:32 PM

Magorn: bhcompy: So which side is spinning this as a gay rights issue? The article outwardly leans one way to make it look like it's the left doing it, but, realistically, this has nothing to do with gay rights at all. It's a legal issue that many people have, regardless of sexual preference. I've been a parent to my stepson for the vast majority of his life, but if his mother dies custody will revert to the biological father because he has not forsaken his rights and the courts did not terminate his rights in custody proceedings(thus I cannot adopt). There are many more people in this arrangement than there are people like those described in the article. Based on reading the law, it would seem that this gives the courts leeway to determine that the surrogate parent(step parent) can be determined to be a "natural/adoptive" parent regardless of the actual parentage relationship with the child.

Basically, unless this is something to be determined at birth and placed on the birth certificate, which my review of the proposed law doesn't seem to indicate(it indicates that the court in custody proceedings can make a judgment in the best interest of the child regardless of true parentage), it's just a law that can allow a step parent(to put it simply) to have equal custody claims/rights as an absent biological parent. Great, yes please. Let's try not to spin this as something that will get it tied up in courts or voted down via initiative.

I hate to say this, but sometimes I consider myself very lucky that my son's (I don't care for the term "step") bio-father got his reckless ass killed in a bar fight a decade ago. It's tough on the kid to know that he'll never meet his biological dad, (espcially as he goes from "sour cream" German Irish in the Winter to "hispanic " in the summer) but in many ways a good thing overall


Oh, I dislike the step term myself, considering the circumstances(he was damn near a toddler when I came in to the picture). Oddly enough, we almost went through the same scenario, which I agree would have been positive, except the cops missed all his vital organs when they shot him a half dozen times, and now he's out of prison which will always be in the back of my mind until my son is an adult. Hell, the social security death benefits would have done more good for him than his biological father ever did or could do in person.
 
2012-09-04 03:58:15 PM
So Polyamory websites are buzzing about this. Even if it passes it doesn't necessarily mean any more-than-three-parent families will be getting additional rights, but this is a step forward to improving legal infrastructure to realistically reflect diversity of families. At any rate I'm pretty excited!
 
2012-09-04 08:30:21 PM
craphound.com

s3.amazonaws.com
 
2012-09-04 09:07:20 PM

wotthefark: [craphound.com image 211x160]

[s3.amazonaws.com image 500x281]


Heh, that reminds me of the Verlander/Upton commercial
 
Ehh
2012-09-04 09:20:25 PM
This has come up because courts have encountered cases in which the rule that a court should always consider a child's best interests has come into conflict with the rule that a child can have only two parents. The child's interest should win, so this law is being proposed. It is a good thing.

Surrogates, donors, moms who carry kids who are not biologically theirs, gay couples, one unfit biological parent vs. a fit non-biological parent...
 
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