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(io9)   Neil Gaiman penning second episode for Doctor Who   (io9.com) divider line 35
    More: Cool, Neil Gaiman, Doctor Who  
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2104 clicks; posted to Geek » on 03 Sep 2012 at 11:38 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-03 10:53:37 AM  
Well, his last one just won the Hugo
 
2012-09-03 11:50:24 AM  
My overwhelming hatred of Amanda farking attention whore supreme Palmer is starting to make me turn on Gaiman. Not sure I can support someone with such vile taste in human beings.
 
2012-09-03 11:54:57 AM  
Doctor's Wife was my second favorite episode from last series (favorite was A Good Man Goes to War) so I'm happy with this...

/Just seen Asylum of the Daleks... REAAAALLY GOOD in my opinion...
 
2012-09-03 12:14:21 PM  

DarkPascual: Doctor's Wife was my second favorite episode from last series (favorite was A Good Man Goes to War) so I'm happy with this...

/Just seen Asylum of the Daleks... REAAAALLY GOOD in my opinion...


I didn't like that one as much (doctor's wife), but I agree on Asylum. SPOILER - I wasn't sure if other's were angry at the ending given that Jake Gyllenhaal movie that came out a couple of years ago. Nonetheless I was fooled and entertained. I thought she was the new companion too.
 
2012-09-03 12:17:07 PM  
boo.
 
2012-09-03 12:30:38 PM  
The man can write. I just recently read Neverwhere. Good book.
 
2012-09-03 12:34:34 PM  
Maybe this time, it won't suck perhaps.
 
2012-09-03 12:36:49 PM  

thecpt: DarkPascual: Doctor's Wife was my second favorite episode from last series (favorite was A Good Man Goes to War) so I'm happy with this...

/Just seen Asylum of the Daleks... REAAAALLY GOOD in my opinion...

I didn't like that one as much (doctor's wife), but I agree on Asylum. SPOILER - I wasn't sure if other's were angry at the ending given that Jake Gyllenhaal movie that came out a couple of years ago. Nonetheless I was fooled and entertained. I thought she was the new companion too.


She is. Or at any rate, that's the actress who's been announced. How that's going to work, who knows?
 
2012-09-03 12:38:45 PM  

Nefarious: Well, his last one just won the Hugo


"And the Hugo goes to Neil Gaiman for being Neil Gaiman......"

Seriously. The guy writes as bad a L Ron Hubbard. Just an old man with an Edward Scissorhands hairdo.

Ellison. Poul. Azimov. Niven. THESE guys can write!

Gaiman's just some leftover from the days of 2000AD.
 
2012-09-03 12:41:25 PM  

TV's Vinnie: Nefarious: Well, his last one just won the Hugo

"And the Hugo goes to Neil Gaiman for being Neil Gaiman......"

Seriously. The guy writes as bad a L Ron Hubbard. Just an old man with an Edward Scissorhands hairdo.

Ellison. Poul. Azimov. Niven. THESE guys can write!

Gaiman's just some leftover from the days of 2000AD.


Niven is shiat. He's a creepy old man who's way too obsessed with sex.
 
2012-09-03 12:43:08 PM  

thecpt: DarkPascual: Doctor's Wife was my second favorite episode from last series (favorite was A Good Man Goes to War) so I'm happy with this...

/Just seen Asylum of the Daleks... REAAAALLY GOOD in my opinion...

I didn't like that one as much (doctor's wife), but I agree on Asylum. SPOILER - I wasn't sure if other's were angry at the ending given that Jake Gyllenhaal movie that came out a couple of years ago. Nonetheless I was fooled and entertained. I thought she was the new companion too.


The actress will be the new companion later this season. Kinda like both Freema Agyeman and Karen Gillian played other roles in Doctor Who prior to being a companion. I think this may be the first time it was intentional done though.
 
2012-09-03 01:26:39 PM  
Please, no.
 
2012-09-03 01:27:12 PM  

TV's Vinnie: Nefarious: Well, his last one just won the Hugo

"And the Hugo goes to Neil Gaiman for being Neil Gaiman......"

Seriously. The guy writes as bad a L Ron Hubbard. Just an old man with an Edward Scissorhands hairdo.

Ellison. Poul. Azimov. Niven. THESE guys can write!

Gaiman's just some leftover from the days of 2000AD.


Gaiman may be the best writer in the world, but I still haven't read Sandman because of how many rabid, clueless fanboys hold it up as TEH BESTEST COMIC BOOK GRAPHIC NOVEL EVAR!!!1111!1!!!112!2
 
2012-09-03 01:27:29 PM  

drewogatory: My overwhelming hatred of Amanda farking attention whore supreme Palmer is starting to make me turn on Gaiman. Not sure I can support someone with such vile taste in human beings.


My dislike of his writing style and characters makes me hate Gaiman. Palmer is just the icing on the cake, since at one point I did like her.
 
2012-09-03 01:29:44 PM  
He's good, his wife is horrid (good looking, bad personality IMO).
 
2012-09-03 01:55:48 PM  

DarkPascual: Doctor's Wife was my second favorite episode from last series (favorite was A Good Man Goes to War) so I'm happy with this...

/Just seen Asylum of the Daleks... REAAAALLY GOOD in my opinion...


Favorite is the Day of the Moon myself, though the "Hello, Dalek" scene from the Wedding of River Song almost brings that episode to first place.

thecpt: I didn't like that one as much (doctor's wife), but I agree on Asylum. SPOILER - I wasn't sure if other's were angry at the ending given that Jake Gyllenhaal movie that came out a couple of years ago. Nonetheless I was fooled and entertained. I thought she was the new companion too.


Sppoiiiilllllerrrss. Was kinda surprised he didn't have a plan or offer to save her or return her to being human. Or maybe he does and we'll see it later. It's not like he doesn't have a time machine.
 
2012-09-03 02:18:24 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Sppoiiiilllllerrrss. Was kinda surprised he didn't have a plan or offer to save her or return her to being human. Or maybe he does and we'll see it later. It's not like he doesn't have a time machine.


And we don't actually see her explode.
 
2012-09-03 02:36:07 PM  

Dalrint: Satanic_Hamster: Sppoiiiilllllerrrss. Was kinda surprised he didn't have a plan or offer to save her or return her to being human. Or maybe he does and we'll see it later. It's not like he doesn't have a time machine.
And we don't actually see her explode.


As I mentioned in today's other DW thread, she could have uploaded like River in the Library. Right now, she could be making sweet, angry love to Idris/Sexy inside the TARDIS' neural network, while the two of them figure out how to get her a new corporeal humanoid body -- and thus enable the Doctor to return to the Library and rescue River.
 
2012-09-03 02:54:00 PM  

TV's Vinnie: Nefarious: Well, his last one just won the Hugo

"And the Hugo goes to Neil Gaiman for being Neil Gaiman......"

Seriously. The guy writes as bad a L Ron Hubbard. Just an old man with an Edward Scissorhands hairdo.

Ellison. Poul. Azimov. Niven. THESE guys can write!

Gaiman's just some leftover from the days of 2000AD.


Not everyone wants to be or indeed is capable of being Stephen King... some people are very happy being pulp writers and make good money doing so.

There is little to nothing wrong with being a pulp writer. Unless you run off to found a religion based around it obviously.
 
2012-09-03 03:05:14 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Gaiman may be the best writer in the world, but I still haven't read Sandman because of how many rabid, clueless fanboys hold it up as TEH BESTEST COMIC BOOK GRAPHIC NOVEL EVAR!!!1111!1!!!112!2


You should read it. It may be debatable if it is the BESTEST EVAR!!!11!!, but it is very well done series that pulls from literature, mythology, religion, and comic book lore in order to create a wonderful story. I love how it works on many different levels, if you are ignorant of DC Comics history, I was when I first read it in the 90s, and was only aware of the literary and mythological references, it stands well as its own story. When I re-read the series a few years ago, with Wikipedia handy to explore the histories of the side characters, I was really awed by how much DC Comics history he wove into the story, with the various previous Sandmans, House of Mystery and Secrets, The Witching Hour, and many other obscure DC properties. It is especially impressive because he wrote everything in the early days of the internet and pre-Wikipedia, which meant that he must either have had an encyclopedic knowledge of comics, spent untold hours in the DC archive, or both. Love it or hate it, the series shows a real love of comic lore underneath all of more esoteric literary references, and I don't know of many other series that have mixed those various sources of inspiration together so well.

It's really an important landmark work in the history of comics, and it is very arguable if it or Watchmen was more instrumental in redefining what kinds of stories could be told in comics. Watchmen was great at deconstructing superhero comics, and influencing a generation or creators, but Sandman really reminded people that comics could be about other things than superheros and still be successful. Yes, other people were doing it for years before Sandman, but the success of that comic really opened the doors for a non-cape series like Preacher, Transmetropolitan, Y: The Last Man, and established the Vertigo imprint where those kinds of stories could thrive, which was an important turning point in comics.
 
2012-09-03 03:15:09 PM  

Mad_Radhu: FirstNationalBastard: Gaiman may be the best writer in the world, but I still haven't read Sandman because of how many rabid, clueless fanboys hold it up as TEH BESTEST COMIC BOOK GRAPHIC NOVEL EVAR!!!1111!1!!!112!2

You should read it. It may be debatable if it is the BESTEST EVAR!!!11!!, but it is very well done series that pulls from literature, mythology, religion, and comic book lore in order to create a wonderful story. I love how it works on many different levels, if you are ignorant of DC Comics history, I was when I first read it in the 90s, and was only aware of the literary and mythological references, it stands well as its own story. When I re-read the series a few years ago, with Wikipedia handy to explore the histories of the side characters, I was really awed by how much DC Comics history he wove into the story, with the various previous Sandmans, House of Mystery and Secrets, The Witching Hour, and many other obscure DC properties. It is especially impressive because he wrote everything in the early days of the internet and pre-Wikipedia, which meant that he must either have had an encyclopedic knowledge of comics, spent untold hours in the DC archive, or both. Love it or hate it, the series shows a real love of comic lore underneath all of more esoteric literary references, and I don't know of many other series that have mixed those various sources of inspiration together so well.

It's really an important landmark work in the history of comics, and it is very arguable if it or Watchmen was more instrumental in redefining what kinds of stories could be told in comics. Watchmen was great at deconstructing superhero comics, and influencing a generation or creators, but Sandman really reminded people that comics could be about other things than superheros and still be successful. Yes, other people were doing it for years before Sandman, but the success of that comic really opened the doors for a non-cape series like Preacher, Transmetropolitan, Y: The ...


Ever read John Ostrander's Spectre?

I ask, because I just read that run, and quite enjoyed it. Is Sandman similar to Ostrander's Spectre?
 
2012-09-03 03:58:24 PM  
I'm a big fan of "Sandman". But Gaiman hasn't done anything worthwhile since then. He made the mistake of putting EVERYTHING HE HAD TO SAY in "Sandman". He's just been repeating himself since then. And doing a bad job of it.

Plus, Gaiman himself is kind of unbearable. The whole "dark poet/punk rocker" thing was cute when he was 25, I guess, but now it's just embarrassing. You're a 52-year-old comic book writer with 3 kids, Neil. Stop with the black leather.
 
2012-09-03 04:05:12 PM  
I just read American Gods and the Graveyard Book. I can't say that he's an especially skilled writer. He's ok, but American Gods was very slipshod and the Graveyard book was written about a boy who was orphaned in order to stop a prophecy from happening. It had werewolves, vampires and mummies. It was written in 2008 or thereabouts. Admittedly, it was better than any Harry Potter story written but it just came off as a cash in. Good for him, I guess.
 
2012-09-03 04:08:34 PM  

TV's Vinnie: Nefarious: Well, his last one just won the Hugo

"And the Hugo goes to Neil Gaiman for being Neil Gaiman......"

Seriously. The guy writes as bad a L Ron Hubbard. Just an old man with an Edward Scissorhands hairdo.

Ellison. Poul. Azimov. Niven. THESE guys can write!

Gaiman's just some leftover from the days of 2000AD.


Nah, you're thinking of Ennis.

AFAIK Gaiman only ever wrote two shorts for 2000AD, back some time around 1987.

Oh Christ, that was 25 years ago.
 
2012-09-03 04:50:51 PM  

iremo: thecpt: DarkPascual: Doctor's Wife was my second favorite episode from last series (favorite was A Good Man Goes to War) so I'm happy with this...

/Just seen Asylum of the Daleks... REAAAALLY GOOD in my opinion...

I didn't like that one as much (doctor's wife), but I agree on Asylum. SPOILER - I wasn't sure if other's were angry at the ending given that Jake Gyllenhaal movie that came out a couple of years ago. Nonetheless I was fooled and entertained. I thought she was the new companion too.

She is. Or at any rate, that's the actress who's been announced. How that's going to work, who knows?


She's probably playing a relative, sort of like how the actress who played Gwyneth in Unquiet Dead came back as Gwen in Torchwood and even said that she was related to her previous character.
 
2012-09-03 05:17:51 PM  

Nezu Chiza: She's probably playing a relative, sort of like how the actress who played Gwyneth in Unquiet Dead came back as Gwen in Torchwood and even said that she was related to her previous character.


Gwen, Martha, and Amy hadn't been written yet, nor had Eve Myles, Freema Agyeman, and Karen Gillan cast in those roles, when they were hired for their one-off episodes. Gwen and Martha were given the backstories to fit the reality. Essentially the same thing happened with Naoko Mori; RTD put the earlier episode into her character's backstory on Torchwood since she would still likely be alive, unlike Gwyneth and Adeola who were both dead.

This, though, is materially different. Jenna-Louise Coleman was hired to be a companion before this episode was cast and filmed. There is clearly a close connection between Oswin and [Clara?]. Moffat wrote Oswin knowing that she would look and sound exactly like the next companion. Perhaps Clara is the mum whose birthday Oswin celebrates. Perhaps they are twin sisters or clones or something. Perhaps Oswin uploaded herself River-style and will somehow get herself a new corporeal body. Perhaps the new companion will gestate in Amy from Oswin hacking the chromosomes in one of Amy's eggs (though hopefully not; the Pond-Williams-Song family companionship is already at least enough). Maybe the Doctor will go past that planet where Jenny (Time Lord Jenny, not submissive human lesbian Jenny) was born and Oswin will hack that technology. Perhaps before signing aboard Alaska, Owin, like Lucy Hartnell, was a teen mum who bore a bastard who grew up to fly the galaxy in a little blue box.
 
2012-09-03 05:18:01 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Ever read John Ostrander's Spectre?

I ask, because I just read that run, and quite enjoyed it. Is Sandman similar to Ostrander's Spectre?


Unfortunately I haven't, so I can't compare them. I'll have to check it out sometime.
 
2012-09-03 05:25:32 PM  

Mad_Radhu: FirstNationalBastard: Ever read John Ostrander's Spectre?

I ask, because I just read that run, and quite enjoyed it. Is Sandman similar to Ostrander's Spectre?

Unfortunately I haven't, so I can't compare them. I'll have to check it out sometime.


It's a lot about the nature of faith, and Jim Corrigan exploring faith, God, and trying to evolve to the point that he no longer needs to be bonded to the Wraith of Vengeance.

Decent book. It does drag a bit in the 30s and 40s, though. But the first couple years and the final year are great reading.
 
2012-09-03 05:47:13 PM  

You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: AFAIK Gaiman only ever wrote two shorts for 2000AD, back some time around 1987.

Oh Christ, that was 25 years ago.




Yes, and he's been milking it ever since. And Sandman was how long ago?
 
2012-09-03 06:10:04 PM  
Geronimo!
 
2012-09-03 07:00:47 PM  

SockMonkeyHolocaust: I just read American Gods and the Graveyard Book. I can't say that he's an especially skilled writer. He's ok, but American Gods was very slipshod and the Graveyard book was written about a boy who was orphaned in order to stop a prophecy from happening. It had werewolves, vampires and mummies. It was written in 2008 or thereabouts. Admittedly, it was better than any Harry Potter story written but it just came off as a cash in. Good for him, I guess.


The Graveyard Book was intended to be a take on The Jungle Book, just from a different setting.. and inspired a long time ago from seeing his kid play around a graveyard
 
2012-09-04 03:30:24 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Mad_Radhu: FirstNationalBastard: Ever read John Ostrander's Spectre?

I ask, because I just read that run, and quite enjoyed it. Is Sandman similar to Ostrander's Spectre?

Unfortunately I haven't, so I can't compare them. I'll have to check it out sometime.

It's a lot about the nature of faith, and Jim Corrigan exploring faith, God, and trying to evolve to the point that he no longer needs to be bonded to the Wraith of Vengeance.

Decent book. It does drag a bit in the 30s and 40s, though. But the first couple years and the final year are great reading.


I've read both, and you certainly can draw such a parallel between the two. Sandman, at its heart, is a question of whether an immortal, universal constant can grow and evolve. It has a much larger range and scope than Spectre, because instead of following one protagonist in a mostly linear fashion, Sandman moves between the real world and the dream world, present day and points throughout Dream's history, how he sees himself compared to his place in various mythologies and cultures, etc. It really is a good book, if you can read it divorced from the hype surrounding it.
 
2012-09-04 03:51:20 AM  
Hated the ending with the "Doctor Who? Doctor Who?" being repeated over and over. Way to beat it into the ground, in the old show it was always a subtle reference. Also can't stand the new companion actress.
 
2012-09-04 09:06:38 AM  

TV's Vinnie: You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: AFAIK Gaiman only ever wrote two shorts for 2000AD, back some time around 1987.

Oh Christ, that was 25 years ago.



Yes, and he's been milking it ever since. And Sandman was how long ago?


What are you on about? Where has Neil Gaiman ever milked the stuff he wrote for 2000AD?

Hell, I've never even met anyone else who has mentioned reading any of his future shocks. I only know them from re-reading mine/my brother's 2000AD collection in the late-ninities, after Sandman was published.

Has he been cruising on the back of Sandman? Yeah, that seems pretty fair; at least he doesn't seem to have really increased his range since then.
 
2012-09-04 10:40:50 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: DarkPascual: Doctor's Wife was my second favorite episode from last series (favorite was A Good Man Goes to War) so I'm happy with this...

/Just seen Asylum of the Daleks... REAAAALLY GOOD in my opinion...

Favorite is the Day of the Moon myself, though the "Hello, Dalek" scene from the Wedding of River Song almost brings that episode to first place.

thecpt: I didn't like that one as much (doctor's wife), but I agree on Asylum. SPOILER - I wasn't sure if other's were angry at the ending given that Jake Gyllenhaal movie that came out a couple of years ago. Nonetheless I was fooled and entertained. I thought she was the new companion too.

Sppoiiiilllllerrrss. Was kinda surprised he didn't have a plan or offer to save her or return her to being human. Or maybe he does and we'll see it later. It's not like he doesn't have a time machine.


Just get her one of those mechanical person crafts like the Doctor used when River "killed" him.
 
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