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(Shadowlocked)   Doctor Who's Asylum of the Daleks will make you cry; redefines relationship between The Doctor and the Daleks (review with spoilers)   (shadowlocked.com) divider line 151
    More: Interesting, Daleks, physicians, interpersonal relationship, dollhouses, Steven Moffat, spoilers, Jenna-Louise Coleman  
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2596 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 03 Sep 2012 at 12:47 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-03 08:20:59 PM

t3knomanser: Useless Destruction of Exergy: How does the Asylum planet fit within the continuity set up by the Time War?

The Daleks from "Victory" ran off to rebuild the Dalek civilization. We can assume that they were successful, although this new civilization seems far more... genteel than the typical Dalek civilization.


No, I understand about the Daleks on the ship. I'm talking about the Daleks on the planet itself. The wars cited (Spiridon, Kembel, Aridius, Vulcan, Exxilon) preceded the Time War.

And why would the Daleks on the planet perform a "full conversion" anyway? From stories prior to The Victory of the Daleks at least, the Daleks were all about genetic purity (Dalek, The Parting of the Ways, Evolution of the Daleks) In fact, being generated from human cells caused the Daleks in The Parting of the Ways to be insane, according to the Ninth Doctor. I could see the Daleks having non-Dalek puppets. I just can't see them accepting Daleks created from non-Dalek stock, much less creating them.
 
2012-09-03 08:25:09 PM

Mad_Radhu: all of which predated the Time War


Did they? They predate it from our perspective, certainly. But if we go with the theory that the first salvo in the Time War was "Genesis of the Daleks", then none of the Dalek encounters predate the Time War.
 
2012-09-03 08:28:51 PM

Useless Destruction of Exergy: I could see the Daleks having non-Dalek puppets. I just can't see them accepting Daleks created from non-Dalek stock, much less creating them.


On this, I agree. I've rewritten the episode thus: Oswin was a Kaled, forced into Dalekhood as part of Davros's first volley against the Thaals. She never was aboard the Alaska, but she actually was a genius, driven mad by her prison. She was one of the first "patients" in the asylum. The millennia of loneliness and pain made her yet madder- mad enough that she caused the Alaska to crash and started adopting the lives of the people who had lived upon it. When we met her, her madness made her believe she was Oswin. Maybe in another century, she'd believe she was the black guy.
 
2012-09-03 08:29:46 PM

Useless Destruction of Exergy: And why would the Daleks on the planet perform a "full conversion" anyway? From stories prior to The Victory of the Daleks at least, the Daleks were all about genetic purity (Dalek, The Parting of the Ways, Evolution of the Daleks) In fact, being generated from human cells caused the Daleks in The Parting of the Ways to be insane, according to the Ninth Doctor. I could see the Daleks having non-Dalek puppets. I just can't see them accepting Daleks created from non-Dalek stock, much less creating them.


The Doctor opined that the full conversion was because they wanted, needed, her genius. She could have become Insane Dalek Supreme or the female Davros and figured out how to get them off of the asylum planet, leading a horde of insane Daleks across space and time.
 
2012-09-03 08:35:14 PM
The Guardian says they'd love to see a full, proper, Dalek as the Doctors companion, especially if it tries to kill him all the time.
 
2012-09-03 08:36:55 PM

Useless Destruction of Exergy: And why would the Daleks on the planet perform a "full conversion" anyway? From stories prior to The Victory of the Daleks at least, the Daleks were all about genetic purity (Dalek, The Parting of the Ways, Evolution of the Daleks) In fact, being generated from human cells caused the Daleks in The Parting of the Ways to be insane, according to the Ninth Doctor. I could see the Daleks having non-Dalek puppets. I just can't see them accepting Daleks created from non-Dalek stock, much less creating them.


Maybe the Daleks were consigned to the Asylum because they hated the Doctor so much that they were willing to consider an option as insane as performing a conversion on a human? They stated pretty clearly that the regular Daleks think the ones in the Asylum are off their rockers, so why would they follow normal Dalek operating procedures?
 
2012-09-03 08:41:18 PM

t3knomanser: Mad_Radhu: all of which predated the Time War

Did they? They predate it from our perspective, certainly. But if we go with the theory that the first salvo in the Time War was "Genesis of the Daleks", then none of the Dalek encounters predate the Time War.


From The Parting of the Ways:
Jack Harkness [about the Daleks]: One minute, they're the greatest threat in the Universe; the next minute, they just vanished out of time and space.
The Ninth Doctor: They went off to fight a bigger war. The Time War.
Jack Harkness: [awed] I thought that was just a legend!
The Doctor: I was there. The war between the Daleks and the Time Lords, with the whole of creation at stake. My people were destroyed, but they took the Daleks with them. I almost thought it was worth it. [bitterly] Now it turns out they died for nothing.

I inferred from this that the final battle of the Time War took place shortly before Rose (in terms of story continuity), where both Time Lords and Daleks had been sealed off in the Medusa Cascade.
 
2012-09-03 08:41:53 PM

Flint Ironstag: The Guardian says they'd love to see a full, proper, Dalek as the Doctors companion, especially if it tries to kill him all the time.


It'd get old fast. You'd have more luck with a Sontaran companion.
 
2012-09-03 08:48:42 PM

Useless Destruction of Exergy: (in terms of story continuity)


Story continuity and temporal continuity aren't the same thing. Also, um, it's Doctor Who. Canon has, and always should be, little more than a suggestion. There is only one thing that is always true in Doctor Who: the Doctor is an adventurer with a stolen time machine, and he loves getting into trouble.
 
2012-09-03 08:51:46 PM

t3knomanser: Flint Ironstag: The Guardian says they'd love to see a full, proper, Dalek as the Doctors companion, especially if it tries to kill him all the time.
It'd get old fast. You'd have more luck with a Sontaran companion.


I think you're forgetting how tedious Stewie's constant failed attempts to kill Lois became.

Sontarans can be domesticated, though.
www.wordofthenerdonline.com
 
2012-09-03 09:00:33 PM

t3knomanser: Useless Destruction of Exergy: (in terms of story continuity)

Story continuity and temporal continuity aren't the same thing. Also, um, it's Doctor Who. Canon has, and always should be, little more than a suggestion. There is only one thing that is always true in Doctor Who: the Doctor is an adventurer with a stolen time machine, and he loves getting into trouble.


Or, rather, the Doctor is an adventurer whom a time machine stole, and both love getting into trouble.
fc03.deviantart.net
 
2012-09-03 09:21:49 PM

t3knomanser: Also, um, it's Doctor Who. Canon has, and always should be, little more than a suggestion.


I understand that. Before this, though, they've usually thrown out some dialogue or scene that seemed to say "Yeah, we know we're about to retcon our story so far, but we had this really cool idea...."

Here, they seemed to get sloppy and just ignore the whole Time War back-story that Russel T. Davis spent most of his reign developing.

Of course, this is just my opinion, and I could be wrong.
 
2012-09-03 09:30:02 PM

Useless Destruction of Exergy: Before this, though, they've usually thrown out some dialogue or scene that seemed to say


Before this when exactly? Between the Dalek's first and second appearance, they went from being confined to a single city and powered by static electricity to invading the Earth.

Useless Destruction of Exergy: Here, they seemed to get sloppy and just ignore the whole Time War back-story that Russel T. Davis spent most of his reign developing.


First off, RTD didn't develop the Time War over his run. He established it. The extent of the development was the "reveal" that the Time Lords had become evil in the course of the war, which is arguably "development" because the Time Lords have always been a questionable influence on the universe, and they've always been an antagonist for the Doctor.

Outside of that one piece of new information revealed through the course of the series, the Time War provided an important back drop to describe Eccleston and Tennant's Doctors (shell-shocked veterans of the war), but the Time War never really developed- it was used to develop the character of the Doctor.

Second off, the Time War has outstayed its welcome, and it should be retconned into oblivion, and I predict that's where Moffat is generally headed. I think we'll see the return of the Time Lords, for keeps, by the 50th.

Thirdly, the only thing that even throws a wrench into this is mentions of old encounters with Daleks, included pretty much as a throwaway line, and some old Dalek designs. That's more fan-service than real continuity.
 
2012-09-03 09:32:01 PM
Also:
lh5.googleusercontent.com
 
2012-09-03 09:35:14 PM

Balchinian: [i.imgur.com image 665x374][i.imgur.com image 475x275]
[i.imgur.com image 615x597][i.imgur.com image 300x297] 

You will now think of Honey Boo Boo every time you watch Dr. Who.


NOOOOOOOOOO!! YOU BIATCH!! YOU BIATCH!!
 
2012-09-03 10:10:48 PM
She has really nice knees.

i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
 
2012-09-03 10:23:34 PM
Jesus fark.

I miss Mr. Davies.
 
2012-09-03 10:25:02 PM

Flint Ironstag: The Guardian says they'd love to see a full, proper, Dalek as the Doctors companion, especially if it tries to kill him all the time.


The Guardian occasionally causes writers to become snarky assholes.
 
2012-09-03 10:28:16 PM

Wellon Dowd: She has really nice knees.


Recognise the chair?
media.tumblr.com

As I suggested earlier, that could be how she gets corporeal human form - the machine from which Jenny was "born". And since we know where the Doctor finds her with the other Jenny in December ... hummm, could the Doctor and Jenny be hiding Jenny's Time Lord nature from Vastra? "Hmmmm, you don't taste quite human."
 
2012-09-03 10:35:19 PM

t3knomanser: Useless Destruction of Exergy: Before this, though, they've usually thrown out some dialogue or scene that seemed to say

Before this when exactly? Between the Dalek's first and second appearance, they went from being confined to a single city and powered by static electricity to invading the Earth.

Useless Destruction of Exergy: Here, they seemed to get sloppy and just ignore the whole Time War back-story that Russel T. Davis spent most of his reign developing.

First off, RTD didn't develop the Time War over his run. He established it. The extent of the development was the "reveal" that the Time Lords had become evil in the course of the war, which is arguably "development" because the Time Lords have always been a questionable influence on the universe, and they've always been an antagonist for the Doctor.

Outside of that one piece of new information revealed through the course of the series, the Time War provided an important back drop to describe Eccleston and Tennant's Doctors (shell-shocked veterans of the war), but the Time War never really developed- it was used to develop the character of the Doctor.

Second off, the Time War has outstayed its welcome, and it should be retconned into oblivion, and I predict that's where Moffat is generally headed. I think we'll see the return of the Time Lords, for keeps, by the 50th.

Thirdly, the only thing that even throws a wrench into this is mentions of old encounters with Daleks, included pretty much as a throwaway line, and some old Dalek designs. That's more fan-service than real continuity.


OK, now we're getting outside of the standard box score and recap, and into the Inside Baseball areas for me.

I personally don't require series continuity for any show prior to Hill Street Blues, which is the first show that I can remember (outside of soap operas) that required story- and character-arc continuity over an entire series, rather than doing resets (unless there was a need to change actors or locations). So the fact that earlier Who tried to maintain ANY kind of continuity at all is an exception to the times in which is was made, and should be applauded.

But since the 80's, (and Hill Street Blues, LA Law,Wise Guy, X-Files, Babylon 5, Lost, Battlestar Galactica, and many others), if you are going to claim to do an arc-based series, you had better have a good series bible and a strong continuity editor to live up to the standard that you set before yourself.

I did not get that feeling from this particular episode.

(But part of my irritation may come from the fact that I can't get that freaking song out of my head.)
 
2012-09-03 10:38:05 PM
So ok, she incorporated the horizontal slats of her dome into the upper walls of her quarters, her rows of Dalek bumps became the rows of studs on her belt, the vertical block things below her dome, above her skirt (what are those things called?) became the similarly shaped electronic devices on the side of her belt, and her extermination canon became the similar looking egg wisk hanging from the left (viewers' right) side of her belt. Her eyestalk became her circular view screen. Is the boarded up circular hatch supposed to also be her eyestalk, or is it representative of her plunger? If it isn't her plunger, was her plunger interpreted into something else that I'm not noticing?
 
2012-09-03 10:52:37 PM

HopScotchNSoda: Recognise the chair?


99% chance they recycled the prop.

Useless Destruction of Exergy: you had better have a good series bible and a strong continuity editor to live up to the standard that you set before yourself.


That would strangle the life out of Doctor Who. The power of the show is that it can completely reinvent itself every few years. Also, Moffat has made it clear that he's getting away from arcs in this season. Yes, Moffat lies, but let's take it at face value for now.

Doctor Who should never be bogged down by continuity or canon. I would say each season should hold together as a coherent whole (treating a season as a very extended serial). No season should directly contradict anything in the two seasons before it. Outside of that, s'all good.
 
2012-09-03 11:04:42 PM

t3knomanser: HopScotchNSoda: Recognise the chair?

99% chance they recycled the prop.



Quite possible. Except why not use the chairs from the escape pod cockpit that she had climbed through and on which she based her pretend world? I kept looking at it to see if it was supposed to look like Davros' chair or the seats in which the regular Daleks live their lives within the shell -- as if her mind interpreted that into the seat we (the audience) and she see.
 
2012-09-03 11:32:25 PM

t3knomanser: Also, Moffat has made it clear that he's getting away from arcs in this season. Yes, Moffat lies, but let's take it at face value for now.


Good. I think the attention to the long game really hurt the episodes last season. It was a lot of meandering, nothing for 50 minutes with a "HAH! SURPRISE ENDING!!!!!" thrown in.
 
2012-09-04 12:00:09 AM

HopScotchNSoda: Useless Destruction of Exergy: And why would the Daleks on the planet perform a "full conversion" anyway? From stories prior to The Victory of the Daleks at least, the Daleks were all about genetic purity (Dalek, The Parting of the Ways, Evolution of the Daleks) In fact, being generated from human cells caused the Daleks in The Parting of the Ways to be insane, according to the Ninth Doctor. I could see the Daleks having non-Dalek puppets. I just can't see them accepting Daleks created from non-Dalek stock, much less creating them.

The Doctor opined that the full conversion was because they wanted, needed, her genius. She could have become Insane Dalek Supreme or the female Davros and figured out how to get them off of the asylum planet, leading a horde of insane Daleks across space and time.


That makes sense to me.

Also, as I understand it, the conversion process was carried out by the planets automatic defense system.
 
2012-09-04 12:27:12 AM

Hebalo: t3knomanser: Also, Moffat has made it clear that he's getting away from arcs in this season. Yes, Moffat lies, but let's take it at face value for now.

Good. I think the attention to the long game really hurt the episodes last season. It was a lot of meandering, nothing for 50 minutes with a "HAH! SURPRISE ENDING!!!!!" thrown in.



The long game I don't necessarily mind -- and Moffat has already giving us some of that with the mystery about Oswin/Clara.

I liked the way that Davies would pepper dialogue and set dressing with casual mentions of things without making them seem important -- the Bad Wolf graffiti and name-dropping Torchwood in the first season; or the Saxon posters and mentions of the forthcoming general election in the 3rd season of DW and the 1st season of TW. Davies gave us Pete's universe in that Cyberman two-parter; when it was over, we figured we'd probably see it again or hear from it again, but there wasn't any question waiting to be resolved. Davies planted seeds without pointing at them and yelling to the audience, "Hey, look, I planted some seeds. See these seeds. They're going to grow into something important. Everything in this season is just about waiting for these seeds to blossom."

Moffat did a lot of that in 2010, leading to the cameos at the start of "The Pandorica Opens". He gave us some River Song wacky timeline stuff, and hinted at their marriage & whom she killed, but it came across as just toying with the character. Whether River's conversation with the museum Dalek about mercy was intentional foreshadowing of Amy's similar conversation when murdering Kovarian, or if the former just inspired the latter, I don't know.

Last year, however, he went overboard. We had "Who is the astronaut?" "Who is the little girl?" "How are the Silence to be defeated?" and "How does the Doctor survive getting killed?" all presented early in the first episode, and " WTF is the deal with Amy's 'Shroedinger's Foetus'?" presented in the second episode. All of the other episodic plot-lines seemed like filler, and hey, let's remind you about these questions that were're going to leave unresolved for a while. It was like a series-long serial akin to Trial of a Time Lord all over again, but with a big hiatus in the middle of it. He did however tie into a really long game (Prof. Candy & Luna U from 1996) but he didn't start any cliff hangers with that.

The long game is great when the viewer doesn't even know it's being played, not when the writer is pointing at it.

Moffat gave us the Oswin-Clara mystery, but only that one, and we know that it will be (at least partially) answered at Christmas in the sixth episode. Indeed, everything else in "Asylum" not only didn't start new arcs, but wiped some slates clean -- both with Amy & Rory's marriage, and the Daleks' war against the Doctor.
 
2012-09-04 12:28:23 AM

Balchinian:  

You will now think of Honey Boo Boo every time you watch Dr. Who.


Nope, but nice try.
 
2012-09-04 01:13:17 AM

HopScotchNSoda: Moffat gave us the Oswin-Clara mystery, but only that one, and we know that it will be (at least partially) answered at Christmas in the sixth episode.


Well, the Oswin Clara mystery is a mystery only because we as fans know about the casting.

Indeed, everything else in "Asylum" not only didn't start new arcs, but wiped some slates clean -- both with Amy & Rory's marriage, and the Daleks' war against the Doctor was exactly that kind of filler.

The Rory Amy stuff was useless, dull, and at this point, can't be rid of them fast enough. We never feel like the Doctor or the Ponds are really in danger. They've certainly outstayed their story arc.
 
2012-09-04 03:02:31 AM
We are encroaching into Colin Baker territory
 
2012-09-04 03:25:15 AM

Useless Destruction of Exergy: OK, I know the mantra, "it's just a show, I should really just relax." But...

How does the Asylum planet fit within the continuity set up by the Time War? In Dalek, the Dalek was certain that it was the only one left in the Universe after scanning for orders. (All of the other Daleks encountered since were either falling through the Time Vortex (The Parting of the Ways), existing in the Void between Universes (Doomsday), or were created by Davros after Dalek Caan rescued him from the Time Lock (Journey's End).) Wouldn't Time-Vortex-Rose have noticed a whole planet of Daleks when she was doing here thing at the end of The Parting of the Ways?)

I thought that the episode was good on first viewing, but little things such as this have started to nag at me since.


Since the Asylum was considered a legend, it was probably very remote and hidden and quite possibly shielded with some technobabble magic that kept it out of sight of the Bad Wolf. The insane Daleks would have been locked up during the early conflicts and therefore were left out of the main Time War. Also, since the universe was rebooted in series five all bets are off. Basically, the very premise of Doctor Who means continuity is fairly flexible, so you should really just just relax. :)

/personally, I think it's because Superboy Prime punched a wall.
 
2012-09-04 05:57:36 AM
In the Expanded Universe, the Doctor has collected a number of companions who couldn't pass for human, including Kroton the Cyberman in the comic strip. A Dalek would be a bit of a leap - and probably kind of expensive. And inconvenient. (You think K-9 had trouble navigating sets...) But possible.

It would be interesting to see the Doctor with a companion who couldn't "pass." In the comic strip, they had a number of different ways of dealing with non-human companions on early 21st century Earth.
 
2012-09-04 08:42:50 AM

HopScotchNSoda: So ok, she incorporated the horizontal slats of her dome into the upper walls of her quarters, her rows of Dalek bumps became the rows of studs on her belt, the vertical block things below her dome, above her skirt (what are those things called?) became the similarly shaped electronic devices on the side of her belt, and her extermination canon became the similar looking egg wisk hanging from the left (viewers' right) side of her belt. Her eyestalk became her circular view screen. Is the boarded up circular hatch supposed to also be her eyestalk, or is it representative of her plunger? If it isn't her plunger, was her plunger interpreted into something else that I'm not noticing?


You wanna get yourself a girl mate.

/goes for half the people in thes thread.
 
2012-09-04 09:22:58 AM

Hebalo: Well, the Oswin Clara mystery is a mystery only because we as fans know about the casting.


And it's not much of a mystery...they've done the identical ancestor thing before many times. Even if they have Oswin's mind downloaded into Victorian era Clara somehow, that's also not really much of a mystery.

The only "big" mysteries this year is the fate of the Ponds and the fall of the Eleventh.

Of course, I have to wonder...the eleventh WHAT? The Doctor? Sure, but that's what we're supposed to think, isn't it? And that's rarely the right answer.
 
2012-09-04 10:36:34 AM
I'm still waiting to see if all of the Omega references play out to Omega the character.
 
2012-09-04 11:55:36 AM

FirstNationalBastard: HopScotchNSoda: FirstNationalBastard: At this point, they could do a whole season of the Doctor having to confront his failures, or go back and see what happened to the places where he created a massive upheaval or regime change then just farked off away in the TARDIS.

That's the premise of Professor Candy's research. He is very anti-Doctor. That Moffat brought him into cannon last year was a very good sign. For those unaware, Moffat created Prof. Candy in his first published DW story, "Continuity Errors", in 1997, two years before he wrote the charity special, "Curse of the Fatal Death".

Speaking of Kandy, I think we're all agreed that this is one piece of Doctor Who history that can stay buried...

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 381x599]

I could deal with the big green cock monsters of Peladon coming back, but not giant candy covered abortion.


That was the very first Dr. Who serial I ever saw. And yet, I still became an instant fan.
 
2012-09-04 01:05:47 PM

Dr. Whoof: Hebalo: Well, the Oswin Clara mystery is a mystery only because we as fans know about the casting.

And it's not much of a mystery...they've done the identical ancestor thing before many times. Even if they have Oswin's mind downloaded into Victorian era Clara somehow, that's also not really much of a mystery.

The only "big" mysteries this year is the fate of the Ponds and the fall of the Eleventh.

Of course, I have to wonder...the eleventh WHAT? The Doctor? Sure, but that's what we're supposed


Didn't the Evil of the Daleks involve the Daleks messing around with implanting the Human Factor into Daleks in the Victorian Era? It's a stretch, but it would be cool if they tied that in with bringing back Oswin in the Victorian era, and somehow her mind winds up getting implanted into a human after it spends some time knocking about the Dalek Path Web.
 
2012-09-04 01:45:03 PM

Mad_Radhu: Didn't the Evil of the Daleks involve the Daleks messing around with implanting the Human Factor into Daleks in the Victorian Era? It's a stretch, but it would be cool if they tied that in with bringing back Oswin in the Victorian era, and somehow her mind winds up getting implanted into a human after it spends some time knocking about the Dalek Path Web.


Yes, it was a generation earlier than the Christmas episode is set, though (1866 versus 1890s). The Cybermen also tried to convert Victorian humans into their kind in the Victorian Era (in "The Next Doctor"), fifteen years before the Daleks tried it. Keep in mind that Victora's reign was rather lengthy, encompassing most of the 19th century, from 1837 until 1901.

Previously televised Whovian stories in the Victorian Era include "The Next Doctor" (1851), two scenes of The Chase (1863 & 1872), The Evil of the Daleks (1866), "The Unquiet Dead" (1869), one scene in "Father's Day" (1876), "Tooth and Claw" (1879), The Gunfighters (1881), Ghost Light & a sketch in "Rose" & part of "Attack of the Graske (all 3 in 1883), flashbacks in "The Unicorn and the Wasp" & part of Timelash (1885), Vastra & Jenny in "A Good Man Goes to War" (1888), one plot of Lost in Time (1889), "Vincent and the Doctor" & Vincent's scene in "The Pandorica Opens" (1890), The Talons of Weng-Chiang (1890s), Jack's story in "Fragments" (1898) and maybe (depending upon what time of year) part of "Exit Wounds" (1901).
 
2012-09-04 01:51:41 PM

skepticultist: FirstNationalBastard: HopScotchNSoda: FirstNationalBastard: At this point, they could do a whole season of the Doctor having to confront his failures, or go back and see what happened to the places where he created a massive upheaval or regime change then just farked off away in the TARDIS.

That's the premise of Professor Candy's research. He is very anti-Doctor. That Moffat brought him into cannon last year was a very good sign. For those unaware, Moffat created Prof. Candy in his first published DW story, "Continuity Errors", in 1997, two years before he wrote the charity special, "Curse of the Fatal Death".

Speaking of Kandy, I think we're all agreed that this is one piece of Doctor Who history that can stay buried...

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 381x599]

I could deal with the big green cock monsters of Peladon coming back, but not giant candy covered abortion.

That was the very first Dr. Who serial I ever saw. And yet, I still became an instant fan.


Really?

You're hardcore.
 
2012-09-04 01:59:34 PM

Rwa2play: JDDMichael: Oswin is pure win. That is a dynamic I'd like to see more of. Am curious to see how this all plays out.

Hmmm...a thought crosses my mind just now: Oswin uses the Amy's DNA to recombine her own and regenerate back into a human; with the bonus of recombining Amy's DNA in order to give her back the ability to bear children again. I could see that last episode with the Ponds being something like that.


I wasn't going to get into spoilers, but since you did first. The doctor said he was good with teleporters and was able to teleport 3 people to the tardis, nobody said he couldn't have teleported 4. The question then becomes how do they seperate her brain back into her body (that we assume doen't exsist any more)? Or do they run into her pre-assimilation, and this was forshadowing her death?
 
2012-09-04 02:35:06 PM

pat34us: I wasn't going to get into spoilers, but since you did first. The doctor said he was good with teleporters and was able to teleport 3 people to the tardis, nobody said he couldn't have teleported 4. The question then becomes how do they seperate her brain back into her body (that we assume doen't exsist any more)? Or do they run into her pre-assimilation, and this was forshadowing her death?


As I have pointed out, I certainly hope the forthcoming companion is not a pre-assimilation Oswin -- because that's now been done with the majority (seriously, most) of the multi-episode companions since Mel and Seventh Doctor met out of sequence, as well as non-companions Jackie Tyler and Elizabeth I.

Just as River's death demonstrated how to get Oswin out of the Asylum, Jenny's (quasi-incestuous Timelord Jenny, not beastial lesbian human Jenny) birth showed demonstrated how to get Oswin a new body.
 
2012-09-04 02:40:20 PM

HopScotchNSoda: the majority (seriously, most) of the multi-episode companions since Mel and Seventh

Sixth Doctor met out of sequence

FIFM
 
2012-09-04 02:41:22 PM

HopScotchNSoda: pat34us: I wasn't going to get into spoilers, but since you did first. The doctor said he was good with teleporters and was able to teleport 3 people to the tardis, nobody said he couldn't have teleported 4. The question then becomes how do they seperate her brain back into her body (that we assume doen't exsist any more)? Or do they run into her pre-assimilation, and this was forshadowing her death?

As I have pointed out, I certainly hope the forthcoming companion is not a pre-assimilation Oswin -- because that's now been done with the majority (seriously, most) of the multi-episode companions since Mel and Seventh Doctor met out of sequence, as well as non-companions Jackie Tyler and Elizabeth I.

Just as River's death demonstrated how to get Oswin out of the Asylum, Jenny's (quasi-incestuous Timelord Jenny, not beastial lesbian human Jenny) birth showed demonstrated how to get Oswin a new body.


I agree, last season had a simiar theme (show doctors death in the 1st episode), and after reading the previous page you are probably right, she transfered herself to the tardis so all they need to do is find a body for her to go into.

But it would be cool if he teleported her Dalek to the tardis, and she hung out in that form for a while.
 
2012-09-04 03:06:54 PM

pat34us: But it would be cool if he teleported her Dalek to the tardis, and she hung out in that form for a while.


And the Doctor not trusting her the whole time -- especially after what happened when he transported the Master in a box in the TARDIS.

I don't really see that happening, as, to tell her story would require switching back and forth between her outer Dalek voice/appearance, and her delusional humanoid lady voice/appearance (just like what happened once the Doctor discovered the truth), thereby essentially requiring Coleman's companionship to start right away, instead of at Christmas. The next four episodes are the swan song for the Williams-Pond family (less River, presumably), not Oswin/Clara/Whoever's introduction. Also, by remaining a physical Dalek after her delusion has been destroyed could only lead to her growing acceptance of what she has become. Besides, if she just uploads into the Tardis' neural net, she can make "friends" with Idris/Sexy, which is also in keeping with her stated interests and the theme of the forthcoming Christmas special.
 
2012-09-04 03:21:14 PM

Dr. Whoof: And seriously, where do you go with Amy and Rory now? Break them up again? Kill one of them?


Have the angels touch them then bop them back in time to when they can run an orphanage together.

And I can admire what Amy tried to do. Loyalty is not the same thing as happiness and after 2,000 years Rory deserved some happiness, not just the somewhat emo-satisfaction of knowing he never left his charge. She probably pictured him 10 years down the road with a wife and two kids and a big smile on his face, the kind of smile he'll never have without kids.

As for not talking to anyone about it, she was probably worried they'd talk her out of it. But keeping someone with you when you know they'll never be more than 75% happy is just greedy.

/also find it believeable that Amy still doesn't get that she makes Rory happy
//girl has some very real issues
 
2012-09-04 03:33:42 PM

HopScotchNSoda: pat34us: But it would be cool if he teleported her Dalek to the tardis, and she hung out in that form for a while.

Also, by remaining a physical Dalek after her delusion has been destroyed could only lead to her growing acceptance of what she has become. Besides,


It would be an interesting (and different) story arch for a companion, as the doctor trys to figure out how to seperate her, she slowly turns bad, and right as she gets completely out of control he figures it out.
 
2012-09-04 03:47:21 PM

K.B.O. Winston: Have the angels touch them then bop them back in time to when they can run an orphanage together.


Ben Jackson and Polly are already running one in India. Of course, though, they would presumably in their 70s unless they stopped aging in the 1960s like Ian and Barbara did.


pat34us: It would be an interesting (and different) story arch for a companion, as the doctor trys to figure out how to seperate her, she slowly turns bad, and right as she gets completely out of control he figures it out.


She was already the most insane, most technologically adept, most dangerous Dalek in the universe, ever.
 
2012-09-04 03:54:20 PM

K.B.O. Winston: As for not talking to anyone about it, she was probably worried they'd talk her out of it. But keeping someone with you when you know they'll never be more than 75% happy is just greedy.


Talk her out of what? If she'd talked to the Doctor or River on any of the occasions she could have, it's quite likely they could have fixed her up fairly quickly. It's almost like she completely forgot she's got a friend with a time machine/space ship.

Granted, Amy has issues, but really?
 
2012-09-04 04:09:18 PM

HopScotchNSoda: K.B.O. Winston: Have the angels touch them then bop them back in time to when they can run an orphanage together.

Ben Jackson and Polly are already running one in India. Of course, though, they would presumably in their 70s unless they stopped aging in the 1960s like Ian and Barbara did.


pat34us: It would be an interesting (and different) story arch for a companion, as the doctor trys to figure out how to seperate her, she slowly turns bad, and right as she gets completely out of control he figures it out.

She was already the most insane, most technologically adept, most dangerous Dalek in the universe, ever.


Yes but she wasn't bad, reguardless they aren't going in that direction.
 
2012-09-04 06:26:36 PM

HopScotchNSoda: pat34us: I wasn't going to get into spoilers, but since you did first. The doctor said he was good with teleporters and was able to teleport 3 people to the tardis, nobody said he couldn't have teleported 4. The question then becomes how do they seperate her brain back into her body (that we assume doen't exsist any more)? Or do they run into her pre-assimilation, and this was forshadowing her death?

As I have pointed out, I certainly hope the forthcoming companion is not a pre-assimilation Oswin -- because that's now been done with the majority (seriously, most) of the multi-episode companions since Mel and Seventh Doctor met out of sequence, as well as non-companions Jackie Tyler and Elizabeth I.

Just as River's death demonstrated how to get Oswin out of the Asylum, Jenny's (quasi-incestuous Timelord Jenny, not beastial lesbian human Jenny) birth showed demonstrated how to get Oswin a new body.


Right, by why jump through SO many hoops? Because Moffat and the writers like being "clever". Clever is not something to aspire to. It's akin to being a show off for no good reason.
 
2012-09-04 07:38:56 PM

FirstNationalBastard: skepticultist: FirstNationalBastard: HopScotchNSoda: FirstNationalBastard: At this point, they could do a whole season of the Doctor having to confront his failures, or go back and see what happened to the places where he created a massive upheaval or regime change then just farked off away in the TARDIS.

That's the premise of Professor Candy's research. He is very anti-Doctor. That Moffat brought him into cannon last year was a very good sign. For those unaware, Moffat created Prof. Candy in his first published DW story, "Continuity Errors", in 1997, two years before he wrote the charity special, "Curse of the Fatal Death".

Speaking of Kandy, I think we're all agreed that this is one piece of Doctor Who history that can stay buried...

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 381x599]

I could deal with the big green cock monsters of Peladon coming back, but not giant candy covered abortion.

That was the very first Dr. Who serial I ever saw. And yet, I still became an instant fan.

Really?

You're hardcore.


I'm pretty sure it wasn't a matter of being hardcore, but rather of being stoned beyond all sense of reason.
 
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