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(Shadowlocked)   Doctor Who's Asylum of the Daleks will make you cry; redefines relationship between The Doctor and the Daleks (review with spoilers)   (shadowlocked.com) divider line 151
    More: Interesting, Daleks, physicians, interpersonal relationship, dollhouses, Steven Moffat, spoilers, Jenna-Louise Coleman  
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2591 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 03 Sep 2012 at 12:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-03 10:42:07 AM
I dunno about cry, but it was a good opening episode...
 
2012-09-03 10:56:41 AM
oi46.tinypic.com
 
2012-09-03 11:21:02 AM
I watched an episode of Doctor Who for the first time ever Saturday night on the local PBS station just to see what all the fuss was about, and I must admit, I was totally confused.

Will watch again this coming Saturday night.
 
2012-09-03 11:30:05 AM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: [oi46.tinypic.com image 403x403]


Yeah, but you'd still let her use her sucker thing on you.
 
2012-09-03 12:21:40 PM
I laughed, almost cried and was deeply moved.

Great first episode.
 
2012-09-03 12:43:19 PM
Fantastic episode, but the potential for a "good Dalek" seems weird at first glance.
 
2012-09-03 12:51:57 PM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Fantastic episode, but the potential for a "good Dalek" seems weird at first glance.


The only good Dalek is an insane Dalek, of course.
 
2012-09-03 12:52:34 PM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Fantastic episode, but the potential for a "good Dalek" seems weird at first glance.


It's only evil when they exterminate you.
 
2012-09-03 12:55:28 PM
Yeah, I admit it got a little dusty in here during the scene where Amy explained why she divorced Rory. Quite an accomplishment too since she usually gets on my damn nerves.
 
2012-09-03 12:56:26 PM
Honestly, I thought it was a great episode and didn't see that twist coming.

Great series premiere, hope it ends as good as it started.
 
2012-09-03 12:56:49 PM

LrdPhoenix: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Fantastic episode, but the potential for a "good Dalek" seems weird at first glance.

The only good Dalek is an insane Dalek, of course.


Well, wouldn't that be the point? A "normal" Dalek would be filled with hatred of everything non-Dalek.
 
2012-09-03 12:57:37 PM
Eggs...

Eggs...
 
2012-09-03 12:58:48 PM
Eggs term IN ATE!!!
 
2012-09-03 12:58:58 PM

Old enough to know better: Yeah, I admit it got a little dusty in here during the scene where Amy explained why she divorced Rory. Quite an accomplishment too since she usually gets on my damn nerves.


Really?

All I thought was "wow, what a stupid selfish biatch. She couldn't have brought this up at any point before signing the farking divorce papers?"
 
2012-09-03 12:59:21 PM
"I didn't kick you out, I gave you up" That line will get me no matter how many times I watch it. Like Rose's dad jumping into traffic.
 
2012-09-03 01:01:37 PM
Great first episode. Just curious as to how that ship crashed onto that planet.
 
2012-09-03 01:01:39 PM
Oswin is pure win. That is a dynamic I'd like to see more of. Am curious to see how this all plays out.
 
2012-09-03 01:02:57 PM
Eggs.....ter.....min.....ate..............
 
2012-09-03 01:03:48 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Old enough to know better: Yeah, I admit it got a little dusty in here during the scene where Amy explained why she divorced Rory. Quite an accomplishment too since she usually gets on my damn nerves.

Really?

All I thought was "wow, what a stupid selfish biatch. She couldn't have brought this up at any point before signing the farking divorce papers?"


I would think selfish was never telling Rory that she couldn't bear him children and staying married to him. Thought that was kind of honorable about her...but that's just me.
 
2012-09-03 01:07:25 PM

Rwa2play: FirstNationalBastard: Old enough to know better: Yeah, I admit it got a little dusty in here during the scene where Amy explained why she divorced Rory. Quite an accomplishment too since she usually gets on my damn nerves.

Really?

All I thought was "wow, what a stupid selfish biatch. She couldn't have brought this up at any point before signing the farking divorce papers?"

I would think selfish was never telling Rory that she couldn't bear him children and staying married to him. Thought that was kind of honorable about her...but that's just me.


You're right, I misspoke.

Stupid, thoughtless biatch was what I meant. And the character has always been that way.
 
2012-09-03 01:08:46 PM

JDDMichael: Oswin is pure win. That is a dynamic I'd like to see more of. Am curious to see how this all plays out.


Hmmm...a thought crosses my mind just now: Oswin uses the Amy's DNA to recombine her own and regenerate back into a human; with the bonus of recombining Amy's DNA in order to give her back the ability to bear children again. I could see that last episode with the Ponds being something like that.
 
2012-09-03 01:15:05 PM
The human Daleks are actually an update on the Robomen from the Dalek invasion of the Earth episode.

My one complaint was with the "insane" Daleks on the planet. They are supposed to be insane by the Dalek definition, so shouldn't some of them be pacifists, Daleks at peace with the universe?

Oswin should have just been a Dalek, not a converted human. It would have been a so much better to reveal if the most insane Dalek in the universe was a Dalek without any hate within it.

Also, Cybermen assimilate, Daleks Exterminate!
 
2012-09-03 01:15:52 PM
I don't understand how someone can abandon a relationship based on whether the other person can or cannot have children. Children may be important, but do you stop loving someone because they can't provide you with one? You move on, enjoy your life in other ways.

//My sister lost a boyfriend because she couldn't bear him children (the son he "needed" to carry on his name).
//Six months later he was married and had a baby on the way.
//7 daughters later his wife finally gave birth to a son.
//Son died when he was 6 months old.
//Karma is a major biatch.
//My sister didn't lose out on anything with him. He was a dick.
 
2012-09-03 01:16:23 PM

Rwa2play: JDDMichael: Oswin is pure win. That is a dynamic I'd like to see more of. Am curious to see how this all plays out.

Hmmm...a thought crosses my mind just now: Oswin uses the Amy's DNA to recombine her own and regenerate back into a human; with the bonus of recombining Amy's DNA in order to give her back the ability to bear children again. I could see that last episode with the Ponds being something like that.


Ossining did not survive the explosion of the planet
 
2012-09-03 01:17:04 PM

Great Janitor: Rwa2play: JDDMichael: Oswin is pure win. That is a dynamic I'd like to see more of. Am curious to see how this all plays out.

Hmmm...a thought crosses my mind just now: Oswin uses the Amy's DNA to recombine her own and regenerate back into a human; with the bonus of recombining Amy's DNA in order to give her back the ability to bear children again. I could see that last episode with the Ponds being something like that.

Ossining did not survive the explosion of the planet


Oswin...friggin iPad autocorrect
 
2012-09-03 01:20:17 PM
I thought the whole idea of a Dalek Asylum was interesting. I wouldn't have thought they would have had that kind of empathy for their own, no matter how heroic they had been.
 
2012-09-03 01:20:22 PM
My original thought was. Biatch, you can just adopt a kid!
 
2012-09-03 01:22:46 PM
Good episode, but the divorce/reconciliation stuff seemed pretty artificial to me.
 
2012-09-03 01:24:35 PM

Psylent1: The human Daleks are actually an update on the Robomen from the Dalek invasion of the Earth episode.

My one complaint was with the "insane" Daleks on the planet. They are supposed to be insane by the Dalek definition, so shouldn't some of them be pacifists, Daleks at peace with the universe?

Oswin should have just been a Dalek, not a converted human. It would have been a so much better to reveal if the most insane Dalek in the universe was a Dalek without any hate within it.

Also, Cybermen assimilate, Daleks Exterminate!


Daleks have been converting since their start. Daleks are converted Kaleds. In the audio plays, there is mention of Kaled mothers who gave birth to Dalek babies after Davros gave them special treatments. In the classic steries I believe there was a serial were a human was converted into a Dalek. The audio drama 'Dalek Empire 3' mentions a Dalek invasion, but due to the events at the end of 'Dalek Empire 2', their numbers are low, too low for an invasion, so the create a virus that leads to a galactic plague. The show up as friendly saviors who have the cure. Those infected go to healing zones, under heavy Dalek guard, and people are then cured and turned into Daleks.
 
2012-09-03 01:30:51 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Rwa2play: FirstNationalBastard: Old enough to know better: Yeah, I admit it got a little dusty in here during the scene where Amy explained why she divorced Rory. Quite an accomplishment too since she usually gets on my damn nerves.

Really?

All I thought was "wow, what a stupid selfish biatch. She couldn't have brought this up at any point before signing the farking divorce papers?"

I would think selfish was never telling Rory that she couldn't bear him children and staying married to him. Thought that was kind of honorable about her...but that's just me.

You're right, I misspoke.

Stupid, thoughtless biatch was what I meant. And the character has always been that way.


No, she's quite selfish too. Watch "The Girl Who Waited" again sometime. Old Amy has the chance to turn things around and rescue herself so she can have her former life back, be happy and be with Rory, and not put herself through however many years of excruciating loneliness. But noooo, she basically said, "I don't care about younger me, I don't want to save myself all that suffering, I don't want to make things not awkward with Rory, rescue me, Fark younger me.
 
2012-09-03 01:32:37 PM

Great Janitor: Ossining did not survive the explosion of the planet
Oswin...friggin iPad autocorrect


See, we just don' t know yet. She could have converted her consciousness into a data stream and uploaded herself into the TARDIS' computer like River went into a sonic screwdriver at her death. So now, Oswin would be chowing down on Idris' box while the two figure out how to make her a corporeal humanoid again.
 
2012-09-03 01:40:42 PM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: [oi46.tinypic.com image 403x403]


My boyfriend and I got a laugh out of that since we met on a online dating site.

/he is presently boxing up all his Doctor Who books as we are moving in a few weeks
 
2012-09-03 01:43:46 PM
If Amy and Rory do have another kid, how the hell are they going to explain to the kid about their older sister? That's going to be a hell of a talk.
 
2012-09-03 01:45:17 PM
DammitIForgotMyLogin:
oi46.tinypic.com

Eleven is not inexperienced with such things:
www.hireatardis.com25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-09-03 01:48:29 PM

texdent: If Amy and Rory do have another kid, how the hell are they going to explain to the kid about their older sister? That's going to be a hell of a talk.


The easy part would be to not mention the sister, but let aunt River get to be a big part of the kid's life
 
2012-09-03 01:52:19 PM

texdent: If Amy and Rory do have another kid, how the hell are they going to explain to the kid about their older sister? That's going to be a hell of a talk.


Rory's dad is in the next episode. I doubt they told him that their coloured friend whom they grew up with is really his granddaughter, much less that the 50-ish woman who popped by the wedding reception is also her.
 
2012-09-03 02:05:20 PM

HopScotchNSoda: See, we just don' t know yet. She could have converted her consciousness into a data stream and uploaded herself into the TARDIS' computer like River went into a sonic screwdriver at her death


Or, even easier, she transferred herself to the Dalek network, which she was 9obviously) more familiar with. It's there if they ever want to bring her back.
 
2012-09-03 02:13:17 PM

ItsJustJake: Or, even easier, she transferred herself to the Dalek network, which she was 9obviously) more familiar with. It's there if they ever want to bring her back.


But then she wouldn't be giving the old jelly roll to Idris.
 
2012-09-03 02:24:19 PM

DarkPascual: Honestly, I thought it was a great episode and didn't see that twist coming.

Great series premiere, hope it ends as good as it started.


I anticipated the unreal nature of Ms. Oswin Oswald's surroundings and that her abilities to control Dalek technology were a result of a direct mental connection to the Dalek systems, though I had not anticipated exactly how that connection had been established.

/Was not surprised that she was unable to leave with the Doctor.
 
2012-09-03 02:27:15 PM

Psylent1: My one complaint was with the "insane" Daleks on the planet. They are supposed to be insane by the Dalek definition, so shouldn't some of them be pacifists, Daleks at peace with the universe?


Daleks were placed on the asylum planet due to the "sane" Daleks' unwillingness to EXTERMINATE such perfect hatred. Daleks whose insanity resulted in pacifism and a peaceful nature would be EXTERMINATED with extreme prejudice.
 
2012-09-03 02:36:03 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Stupid, thoughtless biatch was what I meant. And the character has always been that way.


Amy is and has always been half a crazy person, and really I wouldn't have her any other way. Remember, this is someone who went through four psychiatrists because she kept biting them.
 
2012-09-03 02:38:08 PM
Ya, I wanted to buy the "can't have children" so I could be into the story more.
My thought is Amy was too stubborn to tell him. I can buy that. She IS stubborn.
And Rory, well he's a nice guy but he's no Einstein.

The mini webisodes didn't help a lot, but Meh, I'm not going to let that ruin what was a good episode.

I mean, nerds complaining about a nerd tv show.
Gotta fight that stereotype. It's as cliche as putting in a bad plot line.
 
2012-09-03 02:40:54 PM
i2.cdnds.net
img.metro.co.uk
www.holymoly.com 
 
2012-09-03 02:46:31 PM

Zombie DJ: Ya, I wanted to buy the "can't have children" so I could be into the story more.
My thought is Amy was too stubborn to tell him. I can buy that. She IS stubborn.
And Rory, well he's a nice guy but he's no Einstein.

The mini webisodes didn't help a lot, but Meh, I'm not going to let that ruin what was a good episode.

I mean, nerds complaining about a nerd tv show.
Gotta fight that stereotype. It's as cliche as putting in a bad plot line.


I would have preferred the divorce to be because as Amy said in 'Vincent and the Doctor', she just isn't the marrying type. The Rory was happy living a quiet life and Amy wanted to live the exciting life. The episode "Amy's Choice" showed that Rory wanted a quiet peaceful life as a family man and Amy not wanting that life.
 
2012-09-03 02:49:38 PM
I'm sorry, but waiting for 2000 years trumps everything. That part of the episode didn't compare to everything else (which was fantastic) because of it.
 
2012-09-03 03:01:43 PM

Psylent1: Oswin should have just been a Dalek, not a converted human. It would have been a so much better to reveal if the most insane Dalek in the universe was a Dalek without any hate within it.


I'm liking that idea a lot.
 
2012-09-03 03:04:07 PM
www.heatworld.com

I like her a lot already. She's adorable and a good actress.
 
2012-09-03 03:04:42 PM

thecpt: I'm sorry, but waiting for 2000 years trumps everything. That part of the episode didn't compare to everything else (which was fantastic) because of it.


Remember though, that Amy has always taken Rory and his love for granted. As children, she kept him around so she would have someone to dress up as the Raggedy Doctor. She would make him count to high numbers for hide-and-seek, and then ignore him while counseling Mels. She was oblivious to his romantic feelings until young adulthood when their daughter pointed them out to her. Amy was eager and not the slightest bit hesitant to sport-shag another man on the eve of her wedding to Rory. Rory will always be there. She was touched when she exited the Pandorica and learned of Rory's loyalty, but it doesn't make a lasting impression on her because her mind says, "well, of course Rory would wait for me; he's Rory." Remember their casual proposal scene in "TWORS": "We should get drinks sometime." "O.K." "And married." "Fine." It probably went more or less the same way in the regular timeline(s) as well.
 
2012-09-03 03:06:07 PM

Forbidden Doughnut: Psylent1: Oswin should have just been a Dalek, not a converted human. It would have been a so much better to reveal if the most insane Dalek in the universe was a Dalek without any hate within it.
I'm liking that idea a lot.


I thought, actually, that's precisely what happened.
 
2012-09-03 03:17:03 PM

Mega Steve: [www.heatworld.com image 615x597]

I like her a lot already. She's adorable and a good actress.


Ace 2.0.

/not that that's a bad thing.
 
2012-09-03 03:27:55 PM

Psylent1: It would have been a so much better to reveal if the most insane Dalek in the universe was a Dalek without any hate within it.


"EXTERMINATE!"
"BUT WHY?"
"SILENCE! EXTERMINATE THE DOCTOR!"
"THE DOCTOR DOES NOT SEEM THAT BAD."
"SHUT UP!"
 
2012-09-03 03:29:21 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Mega Steve: [www.heatworld.com image 615x597]

I like her a lot already. She's adorable and a good actress.

Ace 2.0.

/not that that's a bad thing.


As long as we don't get an Adric 2.0.
 
2012-09-03 03:30:09 PM

Bloody William: FirstNationalBastard: Mega Steve: [www.heatworld.com image 615x597]

I like her a lot already. She's adorable and a good actress.

Ace 2.0.

/not that that's a bad thing.

As long as we don't get an Adric 2.0.


We never saw a body!
 
2012-09-03 03:33:08 PM

Son of Thunder: Psylent1: It would have been a so much better to reveal if the most insane Dalek in the universe was a Dalek without any hate within it.
"EXTERMINATE!"
"BUT WHY?"
"SILENCE! EXTERMINATE THE DOCTOR!"
"THE DOCTOR DOES NOT SEEM THAT BAD."
"SHUT UP!"

"HOLD ON A SECOND ... OK, STILL WANT ME TO EXTERMINATE THE DOCTOR?"
"DOCTOR WHO?"
 
2012-09-03 03:37:57 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Bloody William:
As long as we don't get an Adric 2.0.
We never saw a body!


If it weren't for Adric's failure, none of us would be here, Earth would be populated by the Silurians, and Madame Vastra wouldn't have a submissive young human maid to eagerly serve her every need.
 
2012-09-03 03:43:31 PM

HopScotchNSoda: FirstNationalBastard: Bloody William:
As long as we don't get an Adric 2.0.
We never saw a body!

If it weren't for Adric's failure, none of us would be here, Earth would be populated by the Silurians, and Madame Vastra wouldn't have a submissive young human maid to eagerly serve her every need.


Never. saw. a. body.

He could have been plucked out of the ship at the last second. Cybermen or Daleks or The Black Guardian could have plucked his shattered, mangled body from the wreckage. He could have lived!
 
2012-09-03 03:44:06 PM
Were the Dalek's eggs a little cracked in this ep?

Did the Doctor take a hard-boiled approach to the problem?

/runs/
 
2012-09-03 03:45:15 PM
Unless Oswin was somehow able to change her voice, how could the Doctor NOT have known what she was?

That's a hole big enough to fly Bootsy and the entire Dalek parliament mother ship through.
 
2012-09-03 03:53:37 PM

scalpod: Unless Oswin was somehow able to change her voice, how could the Doctor NOT have known what she was?

That's a hole big enough to fly Bootsy and the entire Dalek parliament mother ship through.


Talking through a radio/comm system is different from using the Dalek voice box. She'd imagine her voice the same way she imagined her body, the comfy chair etc.
A Dalek is just a tank. A tank operator will sound very different over the radio and over the tanks PA system.
 
2012-09-03 03:56:33 PM

Flint Ironstag: Talking through a radio/comm system is different from using the Dalek voice box. She'd imagine her voice the same way she imagined her body, the comfy chair etc.
A Dalek is just a tank. A tank operator will sound very different over the radio and over the tanks PA system.


Except that we & the Doctor hear her voice -- i.e., the actress' real voice, the one she will presumably still have when she starts as a companion in "Doctor Who's All-Lesbian Christmas Hour".
 
2012-09-03 04:13:54 PM

FirstNationalBastard: HopScotchNSoda: FirstNationalBastard: Bloody William:
As long as we don't get an Adric 2.0.
We never saw a body!

If it weren't for Adric's failure, none of us would be here, Earth would be populated by the Silurians, and Madame Vastra wouldn't have a submissive young human maid to eagerly serve her every need.

Never. saw. a. body.

He could have been plucked out of the ship at the last second. Cybermen or Daleks or The Black Guardian could have plucked his shattered, mangled body from the wreckage. He could have lived!


I still want to see the "Rory as a villain mentored by your version of a twisted and scarred Adric" as a 2 season story arc.
 
2012-09-03 04:17:55 PM

TheManofPA: FirstNationalBastard: HopScotchNSoda: FirstNationalBastard: Bloody William:
As long as we don't get an Adric 2.0.
We never saw a body!

If it weren't for Adric's failure, none of us would be here, Earth would be populated by the Silurians, and Madame Vastra wouldn't have a submissive young human maid to eagerly serve her every need.

Never. saw. a. body.

He could have been plucked out of the ship at the last second. Cybermen or Daleks or The Black Guardian could have plucked his shattered, mangled body from the wreckage. He could have lived!

I still want to see the "Rory as a villain mentored by your version of a twisted and scarred Adric" as a 2 season story arc.


At this point, they could do a whole season of the Doctor having to confront his failures, or go back and see what happened to the places where he created a massive upheaval or regime change then just farked off away in the TARDIS.
 
2012-09-03 04:28:01 PM

FirstNationalBastard: At this point, they could do a whole season of the Doctor having to confront his failures, or go back and see what happened to the places where he created a massive upheaval or regime change then just farked off away in the TARDIS.


That's the premise of Professor Candy's research. He is very anti-Doctor. That Moffat brought him into cannon last year was a very good sign. For those unaware, Moffat created Prof. Candy in his first published DW story, "Continuity Errors", in 1997, two years before he wrote the charity special, "Curse of the Fatal Death".
 
2012-09-03 04:32:04 PM

HopScotchNSoda: FirstNationalBastard: At this point, they could do a whole season of the Doctor having to confront his failures, or go back and see what happened to the places where he created a massive upheaval or regime change then just farked off away in the TARDIS.

That's the premise of Professor Candy's research. He is very anti-Doctor. That Moffat brought him into cannon last year was a very good sign. For those unaware, Moffat created Prof. Candy in his first published DW story, "Continuity Errors", in 1997, two years before he wrote the charity special, "Curse of the Fatal Death".


Speaking of Kandy, I think we're all agreed that this is one piece of Doctor Who history that can stay buried...

images2.wikia.nocookie.net

I could deal with the big green cock monsters of Peladon coming back, but not giant candy covered abortion.
 
2012-09-03 04:35:09 PM

Great Janitor: Great first episode. Just curious as to how that ship crashed onto that planet.


That's the one thing that bugged me about the episode. They played it off as Rory and Amy were scooped up by a Dalek ship and taken to the asylum in the same time period, yet in order for the Alaska to have crashed on the asylum it'd have to be centuries later.
 
2012-09-03 04:36:22 PM

Son of Thunder: Psylent1: It would have been a so much better to reveal if the most insane Dalek in the universe was a Dalek without any hate within it.

"EXTERMINATE!"
"BUT WHY?"
"SILENCE! EXTERMINATE THE DOCTOR!"
"THE DOCTOR DOES NOT SEEM THAT BAD."
"SHUT UP!"


WILL YOU BE MY FRIEND!
NOBODY WILL BE MY FRIEND!
*click*
TWILIGHT SPARKLE, YOU ARE MY ONLY FRIEND!
 
2012-09-03 04:37:55 PM

Psylent1: Oswin should have just been a Dalek, not a converted human


This times eleventy-billion.
 
2012-09-03 04:47:59 PM

HopScotchNSoda: Remember their casual proposal scene in "TWORS": "We should get drinks sometime." "O.K." "And married." "Fine." It probably went more or less the same way in the regular timeline(s) as well.


That's pretty much how my husband and I proposed to each other. He's the love of my life.

/Just sayin' 
//I'd marry Rory in a heartbeat
 
2012-09-03 04:51:26 PM

Serial: Great Janitor: Great first episode. Just curious as to how that ship crashed onto that planet.

That's the one thing that bugged me about the episode. They played it off as Rory and Amy were scooped up by a Dalek ship and taken to the asylum in the same time period, yet in order for the Alaska to have crashed on the asylum it'd have to be centuries later.


The Daleks have time travel though.
 
2012-09-03 04:53:41 PM

Bloody William: FirstNationalBastard: Mega Steve: [www.heatworld.com image 615x597]

I like her a lot already. She's adorable and a good actress.

Ace 2.0.

/not that that's a bad thing.

As long as we don't get an Adric 2.0.


You're just jealous because you suck at math!
 
2012-09-03 04:55:16 PM

rynthetyn: Serial: Great Janitor: Great first episode. Just curious as to how that ship crashed onto that planet.
That's the one thing that bugged me about the episode. They played it off as Rory and Amy were scooped up by a Dalek ship and taken to the asylum in the same time period, yet in order for the Alaska to have crashed on the asylum it'd have to be centuries later.
The Daleks have time travel though.


Why? Because it was advanced? Nobody said it was from Earth. Look at Titanic in "Voyage of the Damned".
 
2012-09-03 04:57:25 PM

thecpt: I'm sorry, but waiting for 2000 years trumps everything. That part of the episode didn't compare to everything else (which was fantastic) because of it.


She could have said "Yeah and that's the 2000th time you've reminded me." Maybe living with Rory isn't that easy.
 
2012-09-03 05:01:23 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Mega Steve: [www.heatworld.com image 615x597]

I like her a lot already. She's adorable and a good actress.

Ace 2.0.

/not that that's a bad thing.


Ace's only real drawback is that whoever was writing for her decided to SHOVEL the slang into her dialogue. And the slang didn't even make any sense. She acted the way the suit in the main office who created her thought teenagers acted. And then they hired a 26-year-old to play her. Sophie Aldred did her best, and she was given great material to work with, but she was swimming against those two things.
 
2012-09-03 05:15:06 PM

ItsJustJake: HopScotchNSoda: See, we just don' t know yet. She could have converted her consciousness into a data stream and uploaded herself into the TARDIS' computer like River went into a sonic screwdriver at her death

Or, even easier, she transferred herself to the Dalek network, which she was 9obviously) more familiar with. It's there if they ever want to bring her back.


Or maybe she meets the Doctor in her past, before she joins a ship that crashes in the Dalek Asylum.
 
2012-09-03 05:36:39 PM

shpritz: Or maybe she meets the Doctor in her past, before she joins a ship that crashes in the Dalek Asylum.


No, no, no, no. Enough with the mobius companionships. 57% of the multi-episode companions since Mel Bush (58.3% since Rose Tyler) have had mobius timelines vis-a-vis the Doctor -- plus non-companions Jackie Tyler and Elizabeth I. Of the multi-episdoe companions since Mel whose relationships with the Doctor were in-sync, half were pre-existing non-companions and were only companions for a single episode. And another of those in-sync with the Doctor had mobius relationships with her own mother and the house she torched. Donna and Rory are the only characters since Peri Brown in 1986 who have been official companions for multiple episodes without having their timelines loop back on other characters' timelines -- and even they qualify only if you disregard their negated/alternate timelines in "Turn Left" and "The Pandorica Opens"/"The Big Bang"
 
2012-09-03 05:38:21 PM
I guess Adric would make a good villain. He's a super genius that evolved from giant freaking spiders.
 
2012-09-03 05:43:07 PM

Mega Steve: I guess Adric would make a good villain. He's a super genius that evolved from giant freaking spiders.


Super geniuses don't always make very formidable enemies.
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-09-03 05:53:25 PM

Mega Steve: I guess Adric would make a good villain. He's a super genius that evolved from giant freaking spiders.


Thanagarian Snare Beast in the third act?
 
2012-09-03 05:56:43 PM
 
2012-09-03 05:57:35 PM

Bloody William: FirstNationalBastard: Mega Steve: [www.heatworld.com image 615x597]

I like her a lot already. She's adorable and a good actress.

Ace 2.0.

/not that that's a bad thing.

As long as we don't get an Adric 2.0.


I was just reading the episode summary of Full Circle, and apparently the guy who wrote the episode was 17 and had always wanted to write for Doctor Who. I have to wonder if Adric wound up being a bit of a Gary Stu because of this.
 
2012-09-03 06:10:51 PM

HopScotchNSoda: No, no, no, no. Enough with the mobius companionships. 57% of the multi-episode companions since Mel Bush (58.3% since Rose Tyler) have had mobius timelines vis-a-vis the Doctor -- plus non-companions Jackie Tyler and Elizabeth I. Of the multi-episdoe companions since Mel whose relationships with the Doctor were in-sync, half were pre-existing non-companions and were only companions for a single episode. And another of those in-sync with the Doctor had mobius relationships with her own mother and the house she torched. Donna and Rory are the only characters since Peri Brown in 1986 who have been official companions for multiple episodes without having their timelines loop back on other characters' timelines -- and even they qualify only if you disregard their negated/alternate timelines in "Turn Left" and "The Pandorica Opens"/"The Big Bang"


Hell, even Rory's companionship is mobius, although only briefly within his companionship, and they still met each other at the same time. The Doctor who waves to him in The Flying Deuces , sends them the invitations to Utah, and enjoys a nice picnic with them from within the Tesalecta is from after "The God Complex".
 
2012-09-03 06:27:30 PM
I mentioned this in the other thread from the night of the premier, but to me, Amy and Rory seem past their prime. Their story has concluded, and now they have to find ridiculously stupid reasons for the Doctor to continue to be part of their lives. Sarah Jane had the right way of it, "everything has its time." Amy and Rory just come off as having been with the Doctor too long.

And yes, the whole divorce seemed horribly contrived. Here are two people who have been through literal life and death, through the end of the universe and back, who have been shown more than once that they are destined to be together, but hey, let's have them split up. And all because Amy can't have kids any more...except, oh wait, they know someone with a magic box who shows up from time to time and has access to advanced technology that could probably fix that in a jiffy. One pop off to New Earth and a visit with the cat people and Amy would be good as new. Or a good dose of nanogenes.

Wait...nanogenes? Oh my. She ran into those in this episode!

The point is, it's just silly that she would react that way, especially considering she clearly never talked to the Doctor about that or heck, even River, who seems to pop by from time to time. I'm pretty sure if mom and dad asked, River could find a med scanner or two for them. Hell, her Vortex Manipulator probably can do the job, if not fix whatever is wrong. It's like a comic book character who's best friends with Superman chewing their leg off to get out from under a rock - you know, he could lift that for you...not even a big problem for him...kinda simple, actually.

Overall there were a couple of obvious hints in the episode ("Make them remember you." "Remember me." the blinking light on the vanity), but it actually didn't feel all that good to me, mostly because of the highly contrived divorce plot. And seriously, where do you go with Amy and Rory now? Break them up again? Kill one of them? Anything they do at this point to remove "and they lived happily ever after" will feel like a cheat.
 
2012-09-03 06:29:02 PM

HopScotchNSoda: Flint Ironstag: Talking through a radio/comm system is different from using the Dalek voice box. She'd imagine her voice the same way she imagined her body, the comfy chair etc.
A Dalek is just a tank. A tank operator will sound very different over the radio and over the tanks PA system.

Except that we & the Doctor hear her voice -- i.e., the actress' real voice, the one she will presumably still have when she starts as a companion in "Doctor Who's All-Lesbian Christmas Hour".


The Doctor heard "her voice" that she imagined and transmitted, just as she imagined the comfy chair, the souffle and the Carmen opera, the same opera they all heard on the Dalek mothership.. Once the Doctor was in the room with her he heard her Dalek voice.
 
2012-09-03 06:32:03 PM

TheManofPA: Mega Steve: I guess Adric would make a good villain. He's a super genius that evolved from giant freaking spiders.

Thanagarian Snare Beast in the third act?


You want the Doctor to wrestle a polar bear?
 
2012-09-03 06:55:23 PM

Flint Ironstag: The Doctor heard "her voice" that she imagined and transmitted, just as she imagined the comfy chair, the souffle and the Carmen opera, the same opera they all heard on the Dalek mothership.. Once the Doctor was in the room with her he heard her Dalek voice.


Yes, he heard her in-her-head voice when transmitted. The other poster's point was that he would presumably recognise that voice come Christmas, just like he and Rose recognised Gwen's face & voice, and he recognised Dodo's face & voice. You said that he only heard it through the transmission. I agreed -- but the transmitted voice that he and everyone else heard is the same voice as the forthcoming companion, which he will presumably recognise.

I don't know what their connection is supposed to be -- but Moffat clearly intends them to be closely related and, moreover, that Oswin is important to the new companion's story (as opposed to Myles' and Agyeman's characters who were just retconned to be related order to explain away the striking resemblances to the audience). Coleman was deliberately cast as Oswin after already hired on as the next companion.

Remember that this is the same man who provided a spoiler in "The Impossible Astronaut" to confirm that the little girl was little River -- by casting Sydney Wade. She and Kingston had both immediately come off of filming Marchlands in which they played mother & daughter. In that very same episode, Moffat had older & younger Canton Delaware played by the real-life father & son Sheppards (who have made a habit of playing both fathers & sons and older/younger incarnations of the same character).
 
2012-09-03 06:59:56 PM
If you look at the longer story arcs. Series 5 was all about the humbling and ultimate redemption for Rory. He starts off as bumbling fool, the butt of the Doctor's jokes and proves his heroism by becoming the Last Centurion. By Series 6. Rory is full Companion, often sorting messes Amy caused. Rory's now a more worthy companion than Amy.If anything Amy's turned into the Gooseberry.

Series 6 also featured the great rise and fall of the Doctor. Running away from, then ultimately accepting his fate.

Amy started out as Mega-biatch from Hell this series. I think she's the one with the Redemption Arc. I think she threw Rory away not because she was sick of him and not because she couldn't have kids. It's because without the excitement of adventures with the Doctor, Amy could never give the LIFE Rory wanted. She needs excitement. She can't go to Upper Leadworth and live with old people.

And even though Rory's changed quite a lot, maybe he's changed too much. After seeing Rory's heroism Rory's not the luckiest boy to have landed Amy. She's the luckiest girl in the world for having landed him. And she is not worthy of him.

Rory does not need someone like Amy, someone who will always see him as the bumbling kid, someone he will always feel like he has to cower to. Rory needs someone who can see him as the Last Centurion and know him from that. That's why she set him free.

Part of the Doctor's humbling is that he had to break Amy's faith in him to save her from the Minotaur. Amy sees the need to break Rory's devotion to him. Rory presumed that he always loved her more than Amy him. He was wrong. That was the Amy and Rory before the Last Centurion. Now Amy loves him more. He just can't see it. Because he's still in the mindset of the snivelling bumble head. of the Kid from Leadworth and he'll always be that way until Rory is able to see the change inside himself. And Amy.

Amy needed the Doctor to bring back that in Rory or she'd have to leave him. How could you live with the man that you love when he can't see who that man is? Any time he's around you alone that man disappears and bumbly Pointy-nose comes back.
 
2012-09-03 07:07:01 PM
OK, I know the mantra, "it's just a show, I should really just relax." But...

How does the Asylum planet fit within the continuity set up by the Time War? In Dalek, the Dalek was certain that it was the only one left in the Universe after scanning for orders. (All of the other Daleks encountered since were either falling through the Time Vortex (The Parting of the Ways), existing in the Void between Universes (Doomsday), or were created by Davros after Dalek Caan rescued him from the Time Lock (Journey's End).) Wouldn't Time-Vortex-Rose have noticed a whole planet of Daleks when she was doing here thing at the end of The Parting of the Ways?)

I thought that the episode was good on first viewing, but little things such as this have started to nag at me since.
 
2012-09-03 07:08:36 PM

HopScotchNSoda:

Yes, he heard her in-her-head voice when transmitted. The other poster's point was that he would presumably recognise that voice come Christmas, just like he and Rose recognised Gwen's face & voice, and he recognised Dodo's face & voice. You said that he only heard it through the transmission. I agreed -- but the transmitted voice that he and everyone else heard is the same voice as the forthcoming companion, which he will presumably recognise.


They could spin that either way. Everyone knows that when they hear their voice on a tape recording it sounds nothing like they imagine it sounds, or what they hear themselves. So the way Oswin imagines she sounds, and what she projected, may be nothing like what she actually sounds like if and when she gets a human body to speak with.

But they could go either way with that. You'd quite possibly recognise the speech pattern and her personality even if the actual voice sounded different.
 
2012-09-03 07:09:52 PM
"...doing HER thing."
 
2012-09-03 07:13:09 PM
i.imgur.comi.imgur.com
i.imgur.comi.imgur.com 

You will now think of Honey Boo Boo every time you watch Dr. Who.
 
2012-09-03 07:18:42 PM
Maybe some day The Doctor will get another non-human companion. That might be a nice change.
 
2012-09-03 07:23:40 PM

sunsawed: If you look at the longer story arcs....

[I'm not going to waste space reposting your whole post]

I agree with you, and thank you for analogising Amy's treatment of Rory to the Doctor's treatment of her in "The God Complex". I had not thought to do that.

There is another thing to keep in mind when looking at Amy & Rory's Doctor-less home-life. Not only did they lose the Doctor and that excitement, but they lost their best mate, Mels. River pops by to see them now and then, but she is running around with the Doctor and by her self. Mels was their closest friend, both of theirs; they hung out together since they were small children; and she's suddenly gone forever. They also don't have any of their families and other friends around anymore, as they have lived in London since the end of "The God Complex". Sure, they can ring them up, unlike Mels, but it's not the same as being able to just pop round to their homes or meet up for a pint. They're all alone (apart for the few weeks they had the Ood butler).

If the Doctor had left them a few names of people they could invite over -- a black couple who are often out of town but who can certainly relate to them, a kindly old man who lives only a few miles away and understands, a pair of teens who are almost as close by as he is and who are now dealing with a similar loss, a philanthropist & pyromaniac in her late 30s -- then perhaps the Ponds would not be in quite as dire straights.
 
2012-09-03 07:28:12 PM

BizarreMan: I don't understand how someone can abandon a relationship based on whether the other person can or cannot have children. Children may be important, but do you stop loving someone because they can't provide you with one? You move on, enjoy your life in other ways.

//My sister lost a boyfriend because she couldn't bear him children (the son he "needed" to carry on his name).
//Six months later he was married and had a baby on the way.
//7 daughters later his wife finally gave birth to a son.
//Son died when he was 6 months old.
//Karma is a major biatch.
//My sister didn't lose out on anything with him. He was a dick.


You are a pretty sick F&&K for calling that karma.
Oh no, your sister's boyfriend wanted something in life she could never give him and he didn't want to live a life without the opportunity to do something he wanted to do. How farking tragic. I hope she got over it better than you did.
 
2012-09-03 07:39:34 PM

ZeroCorpse: Maybe some day The Doctor will get another non-human companion. That might be a nice change.


Do you mean a non-human companion who looks perfectly human like Susan, Romana, Nyssa, Adric, Turlough, Astrid, and hybrid-human River, who can look at humanity from an outsider's perspective; or do you mean a non-human-looking companion like Kamelion, K-9, and quasi-companion Jabe, for whom terrestrial stories would be problematic?
 
2012-09-03 07:45:37 PM

HopScotchNSoda:
If the Doctor had left them a few names of people they could invite over -- a black couple who are often out of town but who can certainly relate to them, a kindly old man who lives only a few miles away and understands, a pair of teens who are almost as close by as he is and who are now dealing with a similar loss, a philanthropist & pyromaniac in her late 30s -- then perhaps the Ponds would not be in quite as dire straights.


It would certainly make sense for ex companions to get together. Who else could they ever talk to about their experience? Who else could help them readjust to life back on Earth. It's a shock for people who leave the army for civilian life, and this would be a hundred times worse, so a support group would be a great idea.

Nice to see the article quote Steven Moffat giving Dollhouse and Joss Whedon a shoutout. RTD thought Whedon was a great writer as well, and he has clearly influenced both DW showrunners. Whedon arguably led the way in the long game, dropping hints to Dawn arriving two seasons before she did for example.
 
2012-09-03 07:56:51 PM

HopScotchNSoda: non-human companion


Could have a Star Trek-style "we have funny noses" alien. Or hell, just slap some facepaint on, like Dorium.

Useless Destruction of Exergy: How does the Asylum planet fit within the continuity set up by the Time War?


The Daleks from "Victory" ran off to rebuild the Dalek civilization. We can assume that they were successful, although this new civilization seems far more... genteel than the typical Dalek civilization.
 
2012-09-03 08:00:25 PM

t3knomanser: HopScotchNSoda: non-human companion

Could have a Star Trek-style "we have funny noses" alien. Or hell, just slap some facepaint on, like Dorium.

Useless Destruction of Exergy: How does the Asylum planet fit within the continuity set up by the Time War?

The Daleks from "Victory" ran off to rebuild the Dalek civilization. We can assume that they were successful, although this new civilization seems far more... genteel than the typical Dalek civilization.


They have a Parliament, presumably so everyone can get together just to yell EX-TER-MI-NATE! as the answer to every question posed.
 
2012-09-03 08:01:39 PM

HopScotchNSoda: a philanthropist & pyromaniac in her late 30s

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-09-03 08:07:31 PM

t3knomanser:

Useless Destruction of Exergy: How does the Asylum planet fit within the continuity set up by the Time War?

The Daleks from "Victory" ran off to rebuild the Dalek civilization. We can assume that they were successful, although this new civilization seems far more... genteel than the typical Dalek civilization.


Yeah, but the Asylum was filled with survivors of encounters with the Doctor from Vulcan, Exxilon, Spiridon, and other pre-Time War adventures (not to mention examples of Daleks from old stories like the Special Weapons Dalek), all of which predated the Time War, unless for some timey wimey reason Daleks from the shows "current" time went back and fought older versions of the Doctor.
 
2012-09-03 08:13:03 PM

Mad_Radhu: Yeah, but the Asylum was filled with survivors of encounters with the Doctor from Vulcan, Exxilon, Spiridon, and other pre-Time War adventures


Intensive care was filled with the survivors of the Doctor, not the whole planet. The most insane and dangerous Dalek of them all was guarded by those survivors.
 
2012-09-03 08:20:59 PM

t3knomanser: Useless Destruction of Exergy: How does the Asylum planet fit within the continuity set up by the Time War?

The Daleks from "Victory" ran off to rebuild the Dalek civilization. We can assume that they were successful, although this new civilization seems far more... genteel than the typical Dalek civilization.


No, I understand about the Daleks on the ship. I'm talking about the Daleks on the planet itself. The wars cited (Spiridon, Kembel, Aridius, Vulcan, Exxilon) preceded the Time War.

And why would the Daleks on the planet perform a "full conversion" anyway? From stories prior to The Victory of the Daleks at least, the Daleks were all about genetic purity (Dalek, The Parting of the Ways, Evolution of the Daleks) In fact, being generated from human cells caused the Daleks in The Parting of the Ways to be insane, according to the Ninth Doctor. I could see the Daleks having non-Dalek puppets. I just can't see them accepting Daleks created from non-Dalek stock, much less creating them.
 
2012-09-03 08:25:09 PM

Mad_Radhu: all of which predated the Time War


Did they? They predate it from our perspective, certainly. But if we go with the theory that the first salvo in the Time War was "Genesis of the Daleks", then none of the Dalek encounters predate the Time War.
 
2012-09-03 08:28:51 PM

Useless Destruction of Exergy: I could see the Daleks having non-Dalek puppets. I just can't see them accepting Daleks created from non-Dalek stock, much less creating them.


On this, I agree. I've rewritten the episode thus: Oswin was a Kaled, forced into Dalekhood as part of Davros's first volley against the Thaals. She never was aboard the Alaska, but she actually was a genius, driven mad by her prison. She was one of the first "patients" in the asylum. The millennia of loneliness and pain made her yet madder- mad enough that she caused the Alaska to crash and started adopting the lives of the people who had lived upon it. When we met her, her madness made her believe she was Oswin. Maybe in another century, she'd believe she was the black guy.
 
2012-09-03 08:29:46 PM

Useless Destruction of Exergy: And why would the Daleks on the planet perform a "full conversion" anyway? From stories prior to The Victory of the Daleks at least, the Daleks were all about genetic purity (Dalek, The Parting of the Ways, Evolution of the Daleks) In fact, being generated from human cells caused the Daleks in The Parting of the Ways to be insane, according to the Ninth Doctor. I could see the Daleks having non-Dalek puppets. I just can't see them accepting Daleks created from non-Dalek stock, much less creating them.


The Doctor opined that the full conversion was because they wanted, needed, her genius. She could have become Insane Dalek Supreme or the female Davros and figured out how to get them off of the asylum planet, leading a horde of insane Daleks across space and time.
 
2012-09-03 08:35:14 PM
The Guardian says they'd love to see a full, proper, Dalek as the Doctors companion, especially if it tries to kill him all the time.
 
2012-09-03 08:36:55 PM

Useless Destruction of Exergy: And why would the Daleks on the planet perform a "full conversion" anyway? From stories prior to The Victory of the Daleks at least, the Daleks were all about genetic purity (Dalek, The Parting of the Ways, Evolution of the Daleks) In fact, being generated from human cells caused the Daleks in The Parting of the Ways to be insane, according to the Ninth Doctor. I could see the Daleks having non-Dalek puppets. I just can't see them accepting Daleks created from non-Dalek stock, much less creating them.


Maybe the Daleks were consigned to the Asylum because they hated the Doctor so much that they were willing to consider an option as insane as performing a conversion on a human? They stated pretty clearly that the regular Daleks think the ones in the Asylum are off their rockers, so why would they follow normal Dalek operating procedures?
 
2012-09-03 08:41:18 PM

t3knomanser: Mad_Radhu: all of which predated the Time War

Did they? They predate it from our perspective, certainly. But if we go with the theory that the first salvo in the Time War was "Genesis of the Daleks", then none of the Dalek encounters predate the Time War.


From The Parting of the Ways:
Jack Harkness [about the Daleks]: One minute, they're the greatest threat in the Universe; the next minute, they just vanished out of time and space.
The Ninth Doctor: They went off to fight a bigger war. The Time War.
Jack Harkness: [awed] I thought that was just a legend!
The Doctor: I was there. The war between the Daleks and the Time Lords, with the whole of creation at stake. My people were destroyed, but they took the Daleks with them. I almost thought it was worth it. [bitterly] Now it turns out they died for nothing.

I inferred from this that the final battle of the Time War took place shortly before Rose (in terms of story continuity), where both Time Lords and Daleks had been sealed off in the Medusa Cascade.
 
2012-09-03 08:41:53 PM

Flint Ironstag: The Guardian says they'd love to see a full, proper, Dalek as the Doctors companion, especially if it tries to kill him all the time.


It'd get old fast. You'd have more luck with a Sontaran companion.
 
2012-09-03 08:48:42 PM

Useless Destruction of Exergy: (in terms of story continuity)


Story continuity and temporal continuity aren't the same thing. Also, um, it's Doctor Who. Canon has, and always should be, little more than a suggestion. There is only one thing that is always true in Doctor Who: the Doctor is an adventurer with a stolen time machine, and he loves getting into trouble.
 
2012-09-03 08:51:46 PM

t3knomanser: Flint Ironstag: The Guardian says they'd love to see a full, proper, Dalek as the Doctors companion, especially if it tries to kill him all the time.
It'd get old fast. You'd have more luck with a Sontaran companion.


I think you're forgetting how tedious Stewie's constant failed attempts to kill Lois became.

Sontarans can be domesticated, though.
www.wordofthenerdonline.com
 
2012-09-03 09:00:33 PM

t3knomanser: Useless Destruction of Exergy: (in terms of story continuity)

Story continuity and temporal continuity aren't the same thing. Also, um, it's Doctor Who. Canon has, and always should be, little more than a suggestion. There is only one thing that is always true in Doctor Who: the Doctor is an adventurer with a stolen time machine, and he loves getting into trouble.


Or, rather, the Doctor is an adventurer whom a time machine stole, and both love getting into trouble.
fc03.deviantart.net
 
2012-09-03 09:21:49 PM

t3knomanser: Also, um, it's Doctor Who. Canon has, and always should be, little more than a suggestion.


I understand that. Before this, though, they've usually thrown out some dialogue or scene that seemed to say "Yeah, we know we're about to retcon our story so far, but we had this really cool idea...."

Here, they seemed to get sloppy and just ignore the whole Time War back-story that Russel T. Davis spent most of his reign developing.

Of course, this is just my opinion, and I could be wrong.
 
2012-09-03 09:30:02 PM

Useless Destruction of Exergy: Before this, though, they've usually thrown out some dialogue or scene that seemed to say


Before this when exactly? Between the Dalek's first and second appearance, they went from being confined to a single city and powered by static electricity to invading the Earth.

Useless Destruction of Exergy: Here, they seemed to get sloppy and just ignore the whole Time War back-story that Russel T. Davis spent most of his reign developing.


First off, RTD didn't develop the Time War over his run. He established it. The extent of the development was the "reveal" that the Time Lords had become evil in the course of the war, which is arguably "development" because the Time Lords have always been a questionable influence on the universe, and they've always been an antagonist for the Doctor.

Outside of that one piece of new information revealed through the course of the series, the Time War provided an important back drop to describe Eccleston and Tennant's Doctors (shell-shocked veterans of the war), but the Time War never really developed- it was used to develop the character of the Doctor.

Second off, the Time War has outstayed its welcome, and it should be retconned into oblivion, and I predict that's where Moffat is generally headed. I think we'll see the return of the Time Lords, for keeps, by the 50th.

Thirdly, the only thing that even throws a wrench into this is mentions of old encounters with Daleks, included pretty much as a throwaway line, and some old Dalek designs. That's more fan-service than real continuity.
 
2012-09-03 09:32:01 PM
Also:
lh5.googleusercontent.com
 
2012-09-03 09:35:14 PM

Balchinian: [i.imgur.com image 665x374][i.imgur.com image 475x275]
[i.imgur.com image 615x597][i.imgur.com image 300x297] 

You will now think of Honey Boo Boo every time you watch Dr. Who.


NOOOOOOOOOO!! YOU BIATCH!! YOU BIATCH!!
 
2012-09-03 10:10:48 PM
She has really nice knees.

i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
 
2012-09-03 10:23:34 PM
Jesus fark.

I miss Mr. Davies.
 
2012-09-03 10:25:02 PM

Flint Ironstag: The Guardian says they'd love to see a full, proper, Dalek as the Doctors companion, especially if it tries to kill him all the time.


The Guardian occasionally causes writers to become snarky assholes.
 
2012-09-03 10:28:16 PM

Wellon Dowd: She has really nice knees.


Recognise the chair?
media.tumblr.com

As I suggested earlier, that could be how she gets corporeal human form - the machine from which Jenny was "born". And since we know where the Doctor finds her with the other Jenny in December ... hummm, could the Doctor and Jenny be hiding Jenny's Time Lord nature from Vastra? "Hmmmm, you don't taste quite human."
 
2012-09-03 10:35:19 PM

t3knomanser: Useless Destruction of Exergy: Before this, though, they've usually thrown out some dialogue or scene that seemed to say

Before this when exactly? Between the Dalek's first and second appearance, they went from being confined to a single city and powered by static electricity to invading the Earth.

Useless Destruction of Exergy: Here, they seemed to get sloppy and just ignore the whole Time War back-story that Russel T. Davis spent most of his reign developing.

First off, RTD didn't develop the Time War over his run. He established it. The extent of the development was the "reveal" that the Time Lords had become evil in the course of the war, which is arguably "development" because the Time Lords have always been a questionable influence on the universe, and they've always been an antagonist for the Doctor.

Outside of that one piece of new information revealed through the course of the series, the Time War provided an important back drop to describe Eccleston and Tennant's Doctors (shell-shocked veterans of the war), but the Time War never really developed- it was used to develop the character of the Doctor.

Second off, the Time War has outstayed its welcome, and it should be retconned into oblivion, and I predict that's where Moffat is generally headed. I think we'll see the return of the Time Lords, for keeps, by the 50th.

Thirdly, the only thing that even throws a wrench into this is mentions of old encounters with Daleks, included pretty much as a throwaway line, and some old Dalek designs. That's more fan-service than real continuity.


OK, now we're getting outside of the standard box score and recap, and into the Inside Baseball areas for me.

I personally don't require series continuity for any show prior to Hill Street Blues, which is the first show that I can remember (outside of soap operas) that required story- and character-arc continuity over an entire series, rather than doing resets (unless there was a need to change actors or locations). So the fact that earlier Who tried to maintain ANY kind of continuity at all is an exception to the times in which is was made, and should be applauded.

But since the 80's, (and Hill Street Blues, LA Law,Wise Guy, X-Files, Babylon 5, Lost, Battlestar Galactica, and many others), if you are going to claim to do an arc-based series, you had better have a good series bible and a strong continuity editor to live up to the standard that you set before yourself.

I did not get that feeling from this particular episode.

(But part of my irritation may come from the fact that I can't get that freaking song out of my head.)
 
2012-09-03 10:38:05 PM
So ok, she incorporated the horizontal slats of her dome into the upper walls of her quarters, her rows of Dalek bumps became the rows of studs on her belt, the vertical block things below her dome, above her skirt (what are those things called?) became the similarly shaped electronic devices on the side of her belt, and her extermination canon became the similar looking egg wisk hanging from the left (viewers' right) side of her belt. Her eyestalk became her circular view screen. Is the boarded up circular hatch supposed to also be her eyestalk, or is it representative of her plunger? If it isn't her plunger, was her plunger interpreted into something else that I'm not noticing?
 
2012-09-03 10:52:37 PM

HopScotchNSoda: Recognise the chair?


99% chance they recycled the prop.

Useless Destruction of Exergy: you had better have a good series bible and a strong continuity editor to live up to the standard that you set before yourself.


That would strangle the life out of Doctor Who. The power of the show is that it can completely reinvent itself every few years. Also, Moffat has made it clear that he's getting away from arcs in this season. Yes, Moffat lies, but let's take it at face value for now.

Doctor Who should never be bogged down by continuity or canon. I would say each season should hold together as a coherent whole (treating a season as a very extended serial). No season should directly contradict anything in the two seasons before it. Outside of that, s'all good.
 
2012-09-03 11:04:42 PM

t3knomanser: HopScotchNSoda: Recognise the chair?

99% chance they recycled the prop.



Quite possible. Except why not use the chairs from the escape pod cockpit that she had climbed through and on which she based her pretend world? I kept looking at it to see if it was supposed to look like Davros' chair or the seats in which the regular Daleks live their lives within the shell -- as if her mind interpreted that into the seat we (the audience) and she see.
 
2012-09-03 11:32:25 PM

t3knomanser: Also, Moffat has made it clear that he's getting away from arcs in this season. Yes, Moffat lies, but let's take it at face value for now.


Good. I think the attention to the long game really hurt the episodes last season. It was a lot of meandering, nothing for 50 minutes with a "HAH! SURPRISE ENDING!!!!!" thrown in.
 
2012-09-04 12:00:09 AM

HopScotchNSoda: Useless Destruction of Exergy: And why would the Daleks on the planet perform a "full conversion" anyway? From stories prior to The Victory of the Daleks at least, the Daleks were all about genetic purity (Dalek, The Parting of the Ways, Evolution of the Daleks) In fact, being generated from human cells caused the Daleks in The Parting of the Ways to be insane, according to the Ninth Doctor. I could see the Daleks having non-Dalek puppets. I just can't see them accepting Daleks created from non-Dalek stock, much less creating them.

The Doctor opined that the full conversion was because they wanted, needed, her genius. She could have become Insane Dalek Supreme or the female Davros and figured out how to get them off of the asylum planet, leading a horde of insane Daleks across space and time.


That makes sense to me.

Also, as I understand it, the conversion process was carried out by the planets automatic defense system.
 
2012-09-04 12:27:12 AM

Hebalo: t3knomanser: Also, Moffat has made it clear that he's getting away from arcs in this season. Yes, Moffat lies, but let's take it at face value for now.

Good. I think the attention to the long game really hurt the episodes last season. It was a lot of meandering, nothing for 50 minutes with a "HAH! SURPRISE ENDING!!!!!" thrown in.



The long game I don't necessarily mind -- and Moffat has already giving us some of that with the mystery about Oswin/Clara.

I liked the way that Davies would pepper dialogue and set dressing with casual mentions of things without making them seem important -- the Bad Wolf graffiti and name-dropping Torchwood in the first season; or the Saxon posters and mentions of the forthcoming general election in the 3rd season of DW and the 1st season of TW. Davies gave us Pete's universe in that Cyberman two-parter; when it was over, we figured we'd probably see it again or hear from it again, but there wasn't any question waiting to be resolved. Davies planted seeds without pointing at them and yelling to the audience, "Hey, look, I planted some seeds. See these seeds. They're going to grow into something important. Everything in this season is just about waiting for these seeds to blossom."

Moffat did a lot of that in 2010, leading to the cameos at the start of "The Pandorica Opens". He gave us some River Song wacky timeline stuff, and hinted at their marriage & whom she killed, but it came across as just toying with the character. Whether River's conversation with the museum Dalek about mercy was intentional foreshadowing of Amy's similar conversation when murdering Kovarian, or if the former just inspired the latter, I don't know.

Last year, however, he went overboard. We had "Who is the astronaut?" "Who is the little girl?" "How are the Silence to be defeated?" and "How does the Doctor survive getting killed?" all presented early in the first episode, and " WTF is the deal with Amy's 'Shroedinger's Foetus'?" presented in the second episode. All of the other episodic plot-lines seemed like filler, and hey, let's remind you about these questions that were're going to leave unresolved for a while. It was like a series-long serial akin to Trial of a Time Lord all over again, but with a big hiatus in the middle of it. He did however tie into a really long game (Prof. Candy & Luna U from 1996) but he didn't start any cliff hangers with that.

The long game is great when the viewer doesn't even know it's being played, not when the writer is pointing at it.

Moffat gave us the Oswin-Clara mystery, but only that one, and we know that it will be (at least partially) answered at Christmas in the sixth episode. Indeed, everything else in "Asylum" not only didn't start new arcs, but wiped some slates clean -- both with Amy & Rory's marriage, and the Daleks' war against the Doctor.
 
2012-09-04 12:28:23 AM

Balchinian:  

You will now think of Honey Boo Boo every time you watch Dr. Who.


Nope, but nice try.
 
2012-09-04 01:13:17 AM

HopScotchNSoda: Moffat gave us the Oswin-Clara mystery, but only that one, and we know that it will be (at least partially) answered at Christmas in the sixth episode.


Well, the Oswin Clara mystery is a mystery only because we as fans know about the casting.

Indeed, everything else in "Asylum" not only didn't start new arcs, but wiped some slates clean -- both with Amy & Rory's marriage, and the Daleks' war against the Doctor was exactly that kind of filler.

The Rory Amy stuff was useless, dull, and at this point, can't be rid of them fast enough. We never feel like the Doctor or the Ponds are really in danger. They've certainly outstayed their story arc.
 
2012-09-04 03:02:31 AM
We are encroaching into Colin Baker territory
 
2012-09-04 03:25:15 AM

Useless Destruction of Exergy: OK, I know the mantra, "it's just a show, I should really just relax." But...

How does the Asylum planet fit within the continuity set up by the Time War? In Dalek, the Dalek was certain that it was the only one left in the Universe after scanning for orders. (All of the other Daleks encountered since were either falling through the Time Vortex (The Parting of the Ways), existing in the Void between Universes (Doomsday), or were created by Davros after Dalek Caan rescued him from the Time Lock (Journey's End).) Wouldn't Time-Vortex-Rose have noticed a whole planet of Daleks when she was doing here thing at the end of The Parting of the Ways?)

I thought that the episode was good on first viewing, but little things such as this have started to nag at me since.


Since the Asylum was considered a legend, it was probably very remote and hidden and quite possibly shielded with some technobabble magic that kept it out of sight of the Bad Wolf. The insane Daleks would have been locked up during the early conflicts and therefore were left out of the main Time War. Also, since the universe was rebooted in series five all bets are off. Basically, the very premise of Doctor Who means continuity is fairly flexible, so you should really just just relax. :)

/personally, I think it's because Superboy Prime punched a wall.
 
2012-09-04 05:57:36 AM
In the Expanded Universe, the Doctor has collected a number of companions who couldn't pass for human, including Kroton the Cyberman in the comic strip. A Dalek would be a bit of a leap - and probably kind of expensive. And inconvenient. (You think K-9 had trouble navigating sets...) But possible.

It would be interesting to see the Doctor with a companion who couldn't "pass." In the comic strip, they had a number of different ways of dealing with non-human companions on early 21st century Earth.
 
2012-09-04 08:42:50 AM

HopScotchNSoda: So ok, she incorporated the horizontal slats of her dome into the upper walls of her quarters, her rows of Dalek bumps became the rows of studs on her belt, the vertical block things below her dome, above her skirt (what are those things called?) became the similarly shaped electronic devices on the side of her belt, and her extermination canon became the similar looking egg wisk hanging from the left (viewers' right) side of her belt. Her eyestalk became her circular view screen. Is the boarded up circular hatch supposed to also be her eyestalk, or is it representative of her plunger? If it isn't her plunger, was her plunger interpreted into something else that I'm not noticing?


You wanna get yourself a girl mate.

/goes for half the people in thes thread.
 
2012-09-04 09:22:58 AM

Hebalo: Well, the Oswin Clara mystery is a mystery only because we as fans know about the casting.


And it's not much of a mystery...they've done the identical ancestor thing before many times. Even if they have Oswin's mind downloaded into Victorian era Clara somehow, that's also not really much of a mystery.

The only "big" mysteries this year is the fate of the Ponds and the fall of the Eleventh.

Of course, I have to wonder...the eleventh WHAT? The Doctor? Sure, but that's what we're supposed to think, isn't it? And that's rarely the right answer.
 
2012-09-04 10:36:34 AM
I'm still waiting to see if all of the Omega references play out to Omega the character.
 
2012-09-04 11:55:36 AM

FirstNationalBastard: HopScotchNSoda: FirstNationalBastard: At this point, they could do a whole season of the Doctor having to confront his failures, or go back and see what happened to the places where he created a massive upheaval or regime change then just farked off away in the TARDIS.

That's the premise of Professor Candy's research. He is very anti-Doctor. That Moffat brought him into cannon last year was a very good sign. For those unaware, Moffat created Prof. Candy in his first published DW story, "Continuity Errors", in 1997, two years before he wrote the charity special, "Curse of the Fatal Death".

Speaking of Kandy, I think we're all agreed that this is one piece of Doctor Who history that can stay buried...

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 381x599]

I could deal with the big green cock monsters of Peladon coming back, but not giant candy covered abortion.


That was the very first Dr. Who serial I ever saw. And yet, I still became an instant fan.
 
2012-09-04 01:05:47 PM

Dr. Whoof: Hebalo: Well, the Oswin Clara mystery is a mystery only because we as fans know about the casting.

And it's not much of a mystery...they've done the identical ancestor thing before many times. Even if they have Oswin's mind downloaded into Victorian era Clara somehow, that's also not really much of a mystery.

The only "big" mysteries this year is the fate of the Ponds and the fall of the Eleventh.

Of course, I have to wonder...the eleventh WHAT? The Doctor? Sure, but that's what we're supposed


Didn't the Evil of the Daleks involve the Daleks messing around with implanting the Human Factor into Daleks in the Victorian Era? It's a stretch, but it would be cool if they tied that in with bringing back Oswin in the Victorian era, and somehow her mind winds up getting implanted into a human after it spends some time knocking about the Dalek Path Web.
 
2012-09-04 01:45:03 PM

Mad_Radhu: Didn't the Evil of the Daleks involve the Daleks messing around with implanting the Human Factor into Daleks in the Victorian Era? It's a stretch, but it would be cool if they tied that in with bringing back Oswin in the Victorian era, and somehow her mind winds up getting implanted into a human after it spends some time knocking about the Dalek Path Web.


Yes, it was a generation earlier than the Christmas episode is set, though (1866 versus 1890s). The Cybermen also tried to convert Victorian humans into their kind in the Victorian Era (in "The Next Doctor"), fifteen years before the Daleks tried it. Keep in mind that Victora's reign was rather lengthy, encompassing most of the 19th century, from 1837 until 1901.

Previously televised Whovian stories in the Victorian Era include "The Next Doctor" (1851), two scenes of The Chase (1863 & 1872), The Evil of the Daleks (1866), "The Unquiet Dead" (1869), one scene in "Father's Day" (1876), "Tooth and Claw" (1879), The Gunfighters (1881), Ghost Light & a sketch in "Rose" & part of "Attack of the Graske (all 3 in 1883), flashbacks in "The Unicorn and the Wasp" & part of Timelash (1885), Vastra & Jenny in "A Good Man Goes to War" (1888), one plot of Lost in Time (1889), "Vincent and the Doctor" & Vincent's scene in "The Pandorica Opens" (1890), The Talons of Weng-Chiang (1890s), Jack's story in "Fragments" (1898) and maybe (depending upon what time of year) part of "Exit Wounds" (1901).
 
2012-09-04 01:51:41 PM

skepticultist: FirstNationalBastard: HopScotchNSoda: FirstNationalBastard: At this point, they could do a whole season of the Doctor having to confront his failures, or go back and see what happened to the places where he created a massive upheaval or regime change then just farked off away in the TARDIS.

That's the premise of Professor Candy's research. He is very anti-Doctor. That Moffat brought him into cannon last year was a very good sign. For those unaware, Moffat created Prof. Candy in his first published DW story, "Continuity Errors", in 1997, two years before he wrote the charity special, "Curse of the Fatal Death".

Speaking of Kandy, I think we're all agreed that this is one piece of Doctor Who history that can stay buried...

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 381x599]

I could deal with the big green cock monsters of Peladon coming back, but not giant candy covered abortion.

That was the very first Dr. Who serial I ever saw. And yet, I still became an instant fan.


Really?

You're hardcore.
 
2012-09-04 01:59:34 PM

Rwa2play: JDDMichael: Oswin is pure win. That is a dynamic I'd like to see more of. Am curious to see how this all plays out.

Hmmm...a thought crosses my mind just now: Oswin uses the Amy's DNA to recombine her own and regenerate back into a human; with the bonus of recombining Amy's DNA in order to give her back the ability to bear children again. I could see that last episode with the Ponds being something like that.


I wasn't going to get into spoilers, but since you did first. The doctor said he was good with teleporters and was able to teleport 3 people to the tardis, nobody said he couldn't have teleported 4. The question then becomes how do they seperate her brain back into her body (that we assume doen't exsist any more)? Or do they run into her pre-assimilation, and this was forshadowing her death?
 
2012-09-04 02:35:06 PM

pat34us: I wasn't going to get into spoilers, but since you did first. The doctor said he was good with teleporters and was able to teleport 3 people to the tardis, nobody said he couldn't have teleported 4. The question then becomes how do they seperate her brain back into her body (that we assume doen't exsist any more)? Or do they run into her pre-assimilation, and this was forshadowing her death?


As I have pointed out, I certainly hope the forthcoming companion is not a pre-assimilation Oswin -- because that's now been done with the majority (seriously, most) of the multi-episode companions since Mel and Seventh Doctor met out of sequence, as well as non-companions Jackie Tyler and Elizabeth I.

Just as River's death demonstrated how to get Oswin out of the Asylum, Jenny's (quasi-incestuous Timelord Jenny, not beastial lesbian human Jenny) birth showed demonstrated how to get Oswin a new body.
 
2012-09-04 02:40:20 PM

HopScotchNSoda: the majority (seriously, most) of the multi-episode companions since Mel and Seventh

Sixth Doctor met out of sequence

FIFM
 
2012-09-04 02:41:22 PM

HopScotchNSoda: pat34us: I wasn't going to get into spoilers, but since you did first. The doctor said he was good with teleporters and was able to teleport 3 people to the tardis, nobody said he couldn't have teleported 4. The question then becomes how do they seperate her brain back into her body (that we assume doen't exsist any more)? Or do they run into her pre-assimilation, and this was forshadowing her death?

As I have pointed out, I certainly hope the forthcoming companion is not a pre-assimilation Oswin -- because that's now been done with the majority (seriously, most) of the multi-episode companions since Mel and Seventh Doctor met out of sequence, as well as non-companions Jackie Tyler and Elizabeth I.

Just as River's death demonstrated how to get Oswin out of the Asylum, Jenny's (quasi-incestuous Timelord Jenny, not beastial lesbian human Jenny) birth showed demonstrated how to get Oswin a new body.


I agree, last season had a simiar theme (show doctors death in the 1st episode), and after reading the previous page you are probably right, she transfered herself to the tardis so all they need to do is find a body for her to go into.

But it would be cool if he teleported her Dalek to the tardis, and she hung out in that form for a while.
 
2012-09-04 03:06:54 PM

pat34us: But it would be cool if he teleported her Dalek to the tardis, and she hung out in that form for a while.


And the Doctor not trusting her the whole time -- especially after what happened when he transported the Master in a box in the TARDIS.

I don't really see that happening, as, to tell her story would require switching back and forth between her outer Dalek voice/appearance, and her delusional humanoid lady voice/appearance (just like what happened once the Doctor discovered the truth), thereby essentially requiring Coleman's companionship to start right away, instead of at Christmas. The next four episodes are the swan song for the Williams-Pond family (less River, presumably), not Oswin/Clara/Whoever's introduction. Also, by remaining a physical Dalek after her delusion has been destroyed could only lead to her growing acceptance of what she has become. Besides, if she just uploads into the Tardis' neural net, she can make "friends" with Idris/Sexy, which is also in keeping with her stated interests and the theme of the forthcoming Christmas special.
 
2012-09-04 03:21:14 PM

Dr. Whoof: And seriously, where do you go with Amy and Rory now? Break them up again? Kill one of them?


Have the angels touch them then bop them back in time to when they can run an orphanage together.

And I can admire what Amy tried to do. Loyalty is not the same thing as happiness and after 2,000 years Rory deserved some happiness, not just the somewhat emo-satisfaction of knowing he never left his charge. She probably pictured him 10 years down the road with a wife and two kids and a big smile on his face, the kind of smile he'll never have without kids.

As for not talking to anyone about it, she was probably worried they'd talk her out of it. But keeping someone with you when you know they'll never be more than 75% happy is just greedy.

/also find it believeable that Amy still doesn't get that she makes Rory happy
//girl has some very real issues
 
2012-09-04 03:33:42 PM

HopScotchNSoda: pat34us: But it would be cool if he teleported her Dalek to the tardis, and she hung out in that form for a while.

Also, by remaining a physical Dalek after her delusion has been destroyed could only lead to her growing acceptance of what she has become. Besides,


It would be an interesting (and different) story arch for a companion, as the doctor trys to figure out how to seperate her, she slowly turns bad, and right as she gets completely out of control he figures it out.
 
2012-09-04 03:47:21 PM

K.B.O. Winston: Have the angels touch them then bop them back in time to when they can run an orphanage together.


Ben Jackson and Polly are already running one in India. Of course, though, they would presumably in their 70s unless they stopped aging in the 1960s like Ian and Barbara did.


pat34us: It would be an interesting (and different) story arch for a companion, as the doctor trys to figure out how to seperate her, she slowly turns bad, and right as she gets completely out of control he figures it out.


She was already the most insane, most technologically adept, most dangerous Dalek in the universe, ever.
 
2012-09-04 03:54:20 PM

K.B.O. Winston: As for not talking to anyone about it, she was probably worried they'd talk her out of it. But keeping someone with you when you know they'll never be more than 75% happy is just greedy.


Talk her out of what? If she'd talked to the Doctor or River on any of the occasions she could have, it's quite likely they could have fixed her up fairly quickly. It's almost like she completely forgot she's got a friend with a time machine/space ship.

Granted, Amy has issues, but really?
 
2012-09-04 04:09:18 PM

HopScotchNSoda: K.B.O. Winston: Have the angels touch them then bop them back in time to when they can run an orphanage together.

Ben Jackson and Polly are already running one in India. Of course, though, they would presumably in their 70s unless they stopped aging in the 1960s like Ian and Barbara did.


pat34us: It would be an interesting (and different) story arch for a companion, as the doctor trys to figure out how to seperate her, she slowly turns bad, and right as she gets completely out of control he figures it out.

She was already the most insane, most technologically adept, most dangerous Dalek in the universe, ever.


Yes but she wasn't bad, reguardless they aren't going in that direction.
 
2012-09-04 06:26:36 PM

HopScotchNSoda: pat34us: I wasn't going to get into spoilers, but since you did first. The doctor said he was good with teleporters and was able to teleport 3 people to the tardis, nobody said he couldn't have teleported 4. The question then becomes how do they seperate her brain back into her body (that we assume doen't exsist any more)? Or do they run into her pre-assimilation, and this was forshadowing her death?

As I have pointed out, I certainly hope the forthcoming companion is not a pre-assimilation Oswin -- because that's now been done with the majority (seriously, most) of the multi-episode companions since Mel and Seventh Doctor met out of sequence, as well as non-companions Jackie Tyler and Elizabeth I.

Just as River's death demonstrated how to get Oswin out of the Asylum, Jenny's (quasi-incestuous Timelord Jenny, not beastial lesbian human Jenny) birth showed demonstrated how to get Oswin a new body.


Right, by why jump through SO many hoops? Because Moffat and the writers like being "clever". Clever is not something to aspire to. It's akin to being a show off for no good reason.
 
2012-09-04 07:38:56 PM

FirstNationalBastard: skepticultist: FirstNationalBastard: HopScotchNSoda: FirstNationalBastard: At this point, they could do a whole season of the Doctor having to confront his failures, or go back and see what happened to the places where he created a massive upheaval or regime change then just farked off away in the TARDIS.

That's the premise of Professor Candy's research. He is very anti-Doctor. That Moffat brought him into cannon last year was a very good sign. For those unaware, Moffat created Prof. Candy in his first published DW story, "Continuity Errors", in 1997, two years before he wrote the charity special, "Curse of the Fatal Death".

Speaking of Kandy, I think we're all agreed that this is one piece of Doctor Who history that can stay buried...

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 381x599]

I could deal with the big green cock monsters of Peladon coming back, but not giant candy covered abortion.

That was the very first Dr. Who serial I ever saw. And yet, I still became an instant fan.

Really?

You're hardcore.


I'm pretty sure it wasn't a matter of being hardcore, but rather of being stoned beyond all sense of reason.
 
2012-09-05 02:16:46 AM
HopScotchNSoda

media.tumblr.com

You brilliant magnificent bastard. You've sorted it!

Oswin is Jenny, the Doctor's Daughter.

So what happened to Oswin. THINK, people, THINK!!!

Oswin hacked into the Dalek's "hive mind." She's IN the Dalek's main computer. No, really *IN* there, literally. Like the way River's in the Library's computer. All bars. Lock, stock and the full Monty. And she brought the Comfy chair. (And eggs and milk for soufflés.)

Angels have no need for comfy chairs. Time Lords on the other hand...
 
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