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(The New York Times)   Don't worry citizens, everything is in order. Corporate profits are at an all-time high   (nytimes.com) divider line 68
    More: Cool, account of profits, Ford Motor Company, incomes policy, employee benefits, advanced economies, Model T, American middle class  
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1951 clicks; posted to Business » on 03 Sep 2012 at 10:42 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-03 10:22:19 AM
Of course, they are job creatin' with all that liquid capital, aren't they? Probably need to lower corp tax rates, right?

Failed economic religion is failed.
 
2012-09-03 10:51:20 AM
B... b... but tax cuts?
 
2012-09-03 10:52:06 AM
Doesn't do the middle/lower class any good if the money doesn't circulate back into the economy via purchasing goods and services.
 
2012-09-03 11:07:09 AM
Under Obama, it has been a great time to be rich. Poor or Middle class, not so much.
 
2012-09-03 11:08:29 AM

Nemo's Brother: Under Obama, it has been a great time to be rich. Poor or Middle class, not so much.


Yeah cause incomes didn't start stagnating until Obama showed up.
 
2012-09-03 11:14:45 AM
It's kinda odd how everyone says 'we want jobs'. Jobs by their very nature exploit the workers. If the company doesn't make money (profit) off of the work of its laborers, it must fire them.
 
2012-09-03 11:18:48 AM

moefuggenbrew: It's kinda odd how everyone says 'we want jobs'. Jobs by their very nature exploit the workers. If the company doesn't make money (profit) off of the work of its laborers, it must fire them.


And your point?
 
2012-09-03 11:20:38 AM
Phew, I was worried. I am just thankful for outsourcing, so that companies can not hire Americans and then pay people overseas slave-labor prices in order to maximize profit.
 
2012-09-03 11:22:45 AM
i.qkme.me

What's to worry about --- lots of people are doing great!
 
2012-09-03 11:26:00 AM
What's that? Corporate profits are up, but there's no trickle-down effect?
 
2012-09-03 11:34:49 AM

moefuggenbrew: It's kinda odd how everyone says 'we want jobs'. Jobs by their very nature exploit the workers. If the company doesn't make money (profit) off of the work of its laborers, it must fire them.


It doesn't have to make money off its workers anymore. That's why we're raising the tax burden on the poor while lowering it on the rich. Give the companies more money without having that pesky "purchasing goods and services" middle-man in the way. The government's just trying to make things more efficient.
 
2012-09-03 11:39:30 AM
Cue the Dilbert strip of the PHB talking to his workers, which went something like this

"First, I'm pleased to announce that the company has had a record year for profits"
"Second, due to poor economic conditions we will be unable to offer any raises this year"
"Wait- I was supposed to announce the United Way fund drive between those..."
 
2012-09-03 11:55:21 AM

Nemo's Brother: Under Obama, it has been a great time to be rich. Poor or Middle class, not so much.


Well, as a backer of the GOP agenda it's good to know that you'll be voting for Obama.
 
2012-09-03 12:08:21 PM

WhyteRaven74: Nemo's Brother: Under Obama, it has been a great time to be rich. Poor or Middle class, not so much.

Yeah cause incomes didn't start stagnating until Obama showed up.


But since we approved his stimulus package, it drove unemployment way down, just like he promised.
 
2012-09-03 12:24:29 PM

RickN99: But since we approved his stimulus package, it drove unemployment way down,


Yes the unemployment rate is the president's fault, how about blaming the people who created the mess, you know, the private sector? They could fix it in a matter of months.
 
2012-09-03 12:38:42 PM
Americans will eventually do the right thing, but they will try everything else first.
 
2012-09-03 12:41:26 PM
If corporations are people, they are sociopaths with no conscience.

It easy to justify damage to the social and moral fabric of society for the participants (i.e. employees) because everyone is "just doing their job" and no one need feel the guilt of their actions.

Even in the abstract, the mantra "socialize losses, privatize profits" is the new was of doing business and its tearing our societies apart.
 
2012-09-03 12:54:13 PM
But they are talking about back in the day when you went to work for someone and could expect good benefits and living wages and had a job for life if you wanted it. Also the "middle class" was the working class and they were mostly tradesmen, and only one of the parents had to work to survive.
I can see a resurgence of unions in the near future because of the conditions the working class have to deal with.
 
2012-09-03 12:57:43 PM

cig-mkr: I can see a resurgence of unions in the near future because of the conditions the working class have to deal with.


Probably why the right-wing is trying everything it can to kill as many of them as possible right now.
 
2012-09-03 01:08:55 PM
Some people have a very interesting worldview. Corporations are evil and must be reined in as long as they're successful and making money. When a company starts losing money then suddenly it's the endangered source of jobs and must be subsidized, coddled, and bailed out. In short, some people love losers.
 
2012-09-03 01:15:34 PM

jjorsett: Corporations are evil and must be reined in as long as they're successful and making money. When a company starts losing money then suddenly it's the endangered source of jobs and must be subsidized, coddled, and bailed out. In short, some people love losers.


Way to totally miss the point.
 
2012-09-03 01:46:37 PM
Corporations aren't a jobs program or an economy booster. They're around to raise maximum cash, for their own good. People are on their own.
 
2012-09-03 02:26:33 PM

moefuggenbrew: It's kinda odd how everyone says 'we want jobs'. Jobs by their very nature exploit the workers. If the company doesn't make money (profit) off of the work of its laborers, it must fire them.


That goes both ways. If I don't feel I'm better off because of my job, I find another job. That's the nature of any transaction, whether it's goods for cash, such as buying an item for your home, or services for goods, such as work for money. The transaction takes place if both parties feel enriched by the trade. I wouldn't call that taking advantage or exploitative.
 
2012-09-03 02:43:51 PM

jjorsett: Some people have a very interesting worldview. Corporations are evil and must be reined in as long as they're successful and making money. When a company starts losing money then suddenly it's the endangered source of jobs and must be subsidized, coddled, and bailed out. In short, some people love losers.


Or, the larger your corporation becomes, the more of a responsibility it has, and the more of a debt it owes, to the infrastructure that made it that way. Then again, that infrastructure doesn't really exist, does it? You just made all that wealth out of thin air by waving a magic wand. You Built It, after all.
 
2012-09-03 02:46:37 PM

johnnyrocket: Corporations aren't a jobs program or an economy booster. They're around to raise maximum cash, for their own good. People are on their own.


If only there was some group, perhaps elected by all the people in a given geographic area, that could act on their behalf to protect their rights and property. They could enact controls and rules on these corporations to ensure that their self-interest does not harm the societies in which they operate.

Unfortunately, I know of no suck group. :(
 
2012-09-03 03:01:02 PM
Someone should install a guillotine in the middle of night in Wall Street. And when they say something that just irks of greed, lift the the blade ever so slightly (also in the middle of the night).
 
2012-09-03 03:18:52 PM

CygnusDarius: Someone should install a guillotine in the middle of night in Wall Street. And when they say something that just irks of greed, lift the the blade ever so slightly (also in the middle of the night).


So, what you're really trying to say is that you hate the increased value of your 401(k)?
 
2012-09-03 03:20:53 PM

nmemkha: johnnyrocket: Corporations aren't a jobs program or an economy booster. They're around to raise maximum cash, for their own good. People are on their own.

If only there was some group, perhaps elected by all the people in a given geographic area, that could act on their behalf to protect their rights and property. They could enact controls and rules on these corporations to ensure that their self-interest does not harm the societies in which they operate.

Unfortunately, I know of no suck group. :(


I'm pretty sure Congress qualifies as a suck group.
 
2012-09-03 03:22:13 PM

WhyteRaven74: RickN99: But since we approved his stimulus package, it drove unemployment way down,

Yes the unemployment rate is the president's fault, how about blaming the people who created the mess, you know, the private sector? They could fix it in a matter of months.



images4.wikia.nocookie.net
"Ha ha... they're still blaming the private sector!!!
P.T. Barnum was right."
 
2012-09-03 03:43:05 PM

DrPainMD: CygnusDarius: Someone should install a guillotine in the middle of night in Wall Street. And when they say something that just irks of greed, lift the the blade ever so slightly (also in the middle of the night).

So, what you're really trying to say is that you hate the increased value of your 401(k)?


No, but I really like my guillotine idea.
 
2012-09-03 04:05:14 PM
Keep shopping at these big box stores for everything, where 78% of every dollar you spend there leaves the area.
 
2012-09-03 04:21:14 PM

DrPainMD: WhyteRaven74: RickN99: But since we approved his stimulus package, it drove unemployment way down,

Yes the unemployment rate is the president's fault, how about blaming the people who created the mess, you know, the private sector? They could fix it in a matter of months.


[images4.wikia.nocookie.net image 320x242]
"Ha ha... they're still blaming the private sector!!!
P.T. Barnum was right."


Yup, all the stuff we've since seen from inside places like Goldman in the form of memos about how they were intentionally setting clients up with investments they theyselves were betting to fail doesn't exist. They had no idea that they were creating a pyramid of lies with the intention of taking as much as possible before the pyramid collapsed. In no way were they knowingly offering mortgages on McMansions to people who shouldn't have qualified to put a purchase on layaway at Walmart and firing anyone who suggested otherwise. No, the banks are pure and innocent as fresh snowfall.

If only we had some previous examples of how unregulated banking is unstable and ends up creating a massive depression every so often? Hang on, 2008 and 1929 and 1873 are calling... They're all saying there's a reason that commercial and investment banks should be separate.
 
2012-09-03 05:21:28 PM

johnnyrocket: Corporations aren't a jobs program or an economy booster


If they're not boosting the economy, then they're just farking themselves over.

DrPainMD: images4.wikia.nocookie.net


How is the private sector not at fault for the unemployment rate?
 
2012-09-03 05:23:27 PM
If I was the governor of the state Caterpillar is incorporated in I'd give the CEO a call and say "That's a nice corporate charter you've got there, be a shame if anything happened to it".
 
2012-09-03 05:23:46 PM

WhyteRaven74: johnnyrocket: Corporations aren't a jobs program or an economy booster

If they're not boosting the economy, then they're just farking themselves over.

DrPainMD: images4.wikia.nocookie.net

How is the private sector not at fault for the unemployment rate?


It's just not. Don't you understand that, libtard?
 
2012-09-03 05:58:39 PM
This is what it's like to live in the middle of failed capitalism

Everyday you wake up to news of more failure, decay and rot.

Now go turn on your TV and lap up the corporate swill that tells you how this is the best possible economic system
 
2012-09-03 06:03:27 PM

johnnyrocket: Corporations aren't a jobs program or an economy booster. They're around to raise maximum cash, for their own good. People are on their own.


Yep.

Corporations, which our society are built around, have the same motivations as psychos. Gee i wonder why everything is falling apart.
 
2012-09-03 06:30:22 PM

Goimir: Keep shopping at these big box stores for everything, where 78% of every dollar you spend there leaves the area.


Too late. The big boxes have already killed the little guys.
 
2012-09-03 07:15:32 PM
It seems like everyone on Fark has enough money for high speed internet and decent computers.
 
2012-09-03 07:38:43 PM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Goimir: Keep shopping at these big box stores for everything, where 78% of every dollar you spend there leaves the area.

Too late. The big boxes have already killed the little guys.


Man, first video kills the radio star and now this?

I don't want to live on this planet any more.

Actually this means the big corps are flush with cash. The million-dollar question, literally, is what good or service could I provide to liberate them of their accounting burden?
 
2012-09-03 07:42:57 PM

rnld: It seems like everyone on Fark has enough money for high speed internet and decent computers.



Wait, people posting on the internet likely have internet? And they likely have a device to type on? Get the newsflash tag her people.

I bet you argue the probably of the existence of oranges as proof of creationism.
 
2012-09-03 07:56:12 PM

Britney Spear's Speculum: rnld: It seems like everyone on Fark has enough money for high speed internet and decent computers.


Wait, people posting on the internet likely have internet? And they likely have a device to type on? Get the newsflash tag her people.

I bet you argue the probably of the existence of oranges as proof of creationism.


I take it you either live in your mom's basement, don't pay your bills or have a job that allows you time and money to be an internet D level poster.
 
2012-09-03 08:09:07 PM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Goimir: Keep shopping at these big box stores for everything, where 78% of every dollar you spend there leaves the area.

Too late. The big boxes have already killed the little guys.

Man, first video kills the radio star and now this?

I don't want to live on this planet any more.

Actually this means the big corps are flush with cash. The million-dollar question, literally, is what good or service could I provide to liberate them of their accounting burden?


Roads, bridges, public transit for their workers, customers, and product to get to work, education for their future workers, public assistance and retirement for their less fortunate workers, family, and friends.
 
2012-09-03 08:12:40 PM

WhyteRaven74: They could fix it in a matter of months.


By doing what, exactly?
 
2012-09-03 09:34:47 PM

Koalacaust: WhyteRaven74: They could fix it in a matter of months.

By doing what, exactly?


FTFA: "Today the prevailing cut-to-the-bone business ethos means that a company like Caterpillar demands a wage freeze and lower health benefits from its workers, while posting record profits."

How about not freezing wages and not lowering health benefits while posting record profits, for one?
 
2012-09-03 09:44:07 PM

valkore: Koalacaust: WhyteRaven74: They could fix it in a matter of months.

By doing what, exactly?

FTFA: "Today the prevailing cut-to-the-bone business ethos means that a company like Caterpillar demands a wage freeze and lower health benefits from its workers, while posting record profits."

How about not freezing wages and not lowering health benefits while posting record profits, for one?


How else are they going to post record profits NEXT quarter?
 
2012-09-03 09:44:24 PM

rnld: It seems like everyone on Fark has enough money for high speed internet and decent computers.


And refrigerators! 

(damned elitists)
 
2012-09-03 09:47:23 PM
ct.politicomments.com
 
2012-09-03 10:02:09 PM

valkore: How about not freezing wages and not lowering health benefits while posting record profits, for one?


So freezing wages and health benefits will fix the economy in a matter of months? Do explain.
 
2012-09-03 10:06:37 PM

Koalacaust: valkore: How about not freezing wages and not lowering health benefits while posting record profits, for one?

So not freezing wages and health benefits will fix the economy in a matter of months? Do explain.


FTFM
 
2012-09-03 11:11:29 PM
PROFITS are up but REVENUES are not. All that happens to keep profit up when revenue is down or stagnent is to cut costs. But that's a game with a dead end. You can only cut costs for so long until you have no workforce or assets.

The problem is investors that are not in for the long haul, they expect ever higher profits without taking into account that sometimes you have to reinvest your profits to keep the company innovating.

It's why we have companies that post record profits in q1 and chapter 11 in q4. Completely insane. Companies like Cat are cut to the bone, they have nothing left to cut and no new buyers. They have huge profit now, but they are still on the verge of destruction.
 
2012-09-03 11:52:37 PM

johnnyrocket: Corporations aren't a jobs program or an economy booster. They're around to raise maximum cash, for their own good. People are on their own.


This. It is all about the share holders and owners. The workers aren't even "people" to them.

 
2012-09-03 11:53:32 PM
The workers aren't even "people" to them.

And what I meant by that is that the workers are an overhead, not a person.

 
2012-09-04 12:30:10 AM

Goimir: Keep shopping at these big box stores for everything, where 78% of every dollar you spend there leaves the area.


I buy everything from clothes to toiltpaper on Amazon.com....does that make me better or worse, I'm confused
 
2012-09-04 12:50:20 AM

WhyteRaven74: If I was the governor of the state Caterpillar is incorporated in I'd give the CEO a call and say "That's a nice corporate charter you've got there, be a shame if anything happened to it".


That state would be Illinois. Cat HQ is in Peoria, and both of my grandfathers worked for Cat back in the day. But that is a tale for another time.

IL recently raised its tax rates. The CEOs did get phone calls, but from OTHER Governors. Like Chris Christie. IL has Cat, Motorola, Sears, McDondalds, Allstate, State Farm, Boeing, John Deere and United Airlines. Amongst others, but those are the Big Ones. Most of them have been here a long time. I know Cat and Motorola cut deals with Springfield, I'd be shocked if the others didn't as well.

Sickening, yeah. but that is business. At a time when our governor should be soliciting business to move here, he is bribing them to stay. These firms dont owe IL anything, they are free to move. IL was built by some of these companies. In the case of Cat and Deere, feel free to take that literally. With out the tax revenues and jobs provided by these companies, IL would not look like it does today.

I do love these articles and how they pick and choose the variables they look at. Hint: Henry Ford wasnt up against Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai and Kia. A Benz of that vintage was in no way a 'middle class' car, as the poser C-class had not yet entered the market. The difference between us and Germany? They protect their domestic market. Oh, and they have an education system that doesnt insist on sending everyone to college. They still have vocational training. Japan is the same way.

Ford started raising wages to combat turn-over. Given his multitude of other evil ways, anything that passes for altruistic from him was probably an untended consequence. Plus, the guy was trying to create a market. So even after he and GM bought up and killed street car companies to boost demand, folks still needed to be able to pay for the damn things. I can't think of a single industry today that operates like that. but the US auto industry did these things to create what is still today the largest per-capita car market. The fact that Ol' Henry was slick enough into talking other business owners into supporting his evil plans just proves how very savvy he was. But back then, as today, the auto industry had its fingers in other areas. Cars have a lot of varied parts. They need glass, seats, seat covers, rubber tires and a lot of metal. Oh, and they need fuel and massive amounts of power to run a factory. SO I bet it was actually pretty easy for him to talk the other 1%ers into going along with his plan. Because its a brilliant plan.

Anyway, Im willing to bet that if we started treating imported goods the way our exports are treated, most of this would sort its self out pretty quick. China wont let folks in unless the govt owns most of the firm, and they get access to the tech. Japan loves tariffs. You can buy a GTR here cheaper than you can buy a Corvette there, and you can forget about a GM factory in japan unless its run by Izuzu, Suzuki or Kawasaki.

It's called competition, and we shot ourselves in the foot right before the race. The US is too nice for its own good. Nobody else on the planet has looser borders for trade and people. And then we wonder why we have issues. It's not the corporations, either. Well, not just. Im sure they never expected manufacturing to grow so fast over seas, or that we consumers would embrace it so readily. We have a thirst for cheap crap. Great joke in Back to the Future, when Doc is looking at the busticated Delorean "No wonder this chip failed, its made in Japan!" Marty's classic response: "All the best stuff is made in Japan now". And we've seen the same thing with South Korea and China. if you'd told me 6 years ago Kia would be selling cars worth being seen in, I'd have been very skeptical.

We have not adapted to the fact that while other countries have adopted our industries, they would not adopt our business habits. They look further ahead, and are far more cut-throat. And we let them. Thanks to GM and china's trade laws, the ChiComs are learning to build cars. And look at the brands they have over there: Buick and Caddy. The semi-luxury and Luxury brands. They arent learning off chevys, folks. So when the first ChiCom cars come of the boat, they will be nicely equipped and built well. And just as they did to our solar industries, these cars will be sold on our shores at a loss. Toyota and Honda did that mess too. Sell the product at a loss, write it down, AND bring the profits home at a cut-rate tax. Offset any loss buy tariffing the crap out of any chevy to land in yokohama.

Look at the time line. This is what happened to our economy, or at least where it all started.
 
2012-09-04 01:12:29 AM

DoBeDoBeDo: PROFITS are up but REVENUES are not. All that happens to keep profit up when revenue is down or stagnent is to cut costs. But that's a game with a dead end. You can only cut costs for so long until you have no workforce or assets.

The problem is investors that are not in for the long haul, they expect ever higher profits without taking into account that sometimes you have to reinvest your profits to keep the company innovating.

It's why we have companies that post record profits in q1 and chapter 11 in q4. Completely insane. Companies like Cat are cut to the bone, they have nothing left to cut and no new buyers. They have huge profit now, but they are still on the verge of destruction.


I'd like to think that after the Facebook IPO snafu, folks may be learning. The tech boom that supported the Clinton years was ghost money invested in places that often did nothing. Some like google used that money wisely to become a real business. but we should all remember the dot-com bust.

the Revenues and margins are thinning despite the 'record' profits. Hell, if you are in a business and arent posting 'record' numbers, you are probably doing it wrong. Inflation, cost increases, price increase are all going to dive up numbers. Back when I was managing a McD's, 'records' were expected. But the real indicator was Customer count. Were more folks coming in? Then you look at average check, how much was spent each time. Both up, hell yes, good job. CC up, AC down, possible problem. Both down, oh shiat. CC down, AC up, possible problem. Payroll ran about 22% (with payroll taxes), and the margin overall was 10% in a good year. One of my stores was $2M/yr store, the other a $1M/yr store. Labor was our biggest single line. Food and paper were under 8% combined. utilities, franchise fees, advertising, repairs, management pay (a paltry amount by the way 6% including benefits, most of which was the owners cut) all take their taste. And the profits didnt just sit in the bank somewhere. Profits rarely do. Enough was left to cover a rough month (which happens) and then re-invested. new equipment, remodels, raises, training (Hamburger U, son).

Profits,by the way, when they do sit in the bank, are used by the bank to write loans. That is how that works. The bank charges the loan taker interest, takes their cut, and pays interest to the folks who put their cash in savings. With the base rates so low, its not worth it to put profits in savings. Anybody remember the interest rates from the good old days? They make current title-loan/pay-day loan rates look good.

So tying this post back to my earlier post, what did we really thing would happen when we got drunk on cheap credit (which economists said would grow the economy) to buy cheap crap made overseas?
 
2012-09-04 01:25:22 AM

nmemkha: If corporations are people, they are sociopaths with no conscience.

It easy to justify damage to the social and moral fabric of society for the participants (i.e. employees) because everyone is "just doing their job" and no one need feel the guilt of their actions.

Even in the abstract, the mantra "socialize losses, privatize profits" is the new was of doing business and its tearing our societies apart.


You've obviously have never seen the movie "The Corporation" then...

Watch that, then when you come back to class we'll have more to discuss.

The fact of the matter is that the government in essence is allowing private enterprise to get away with such huge profits, and the government is MORE THAN willing to turn a blind eye to the plight of the working class so long as their re-election coffers keep getting filled with those glorious lobbyist campaign 'donations'.

Oh, and oblig:

sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-09-04 01:31:05 AM

Mechanic81: So tying this post back to my earlier post, what did we really thing would happen when we got drunk on cheap credit (which economists said would grow the economy) to buy cheap crap made overseas?


Think?
 
2012-09-04 07:47:52 AM
So we all get our hot cocoa sampler for xmas! yaaaaaay
 
2012-09-04 08:32:16 AM
Why you don't have enough money:


Your government has been spending money a lot lately. The good news is that it's not your money. The bad news is that all of your tax dollars had already been spent by the time you began to pay them. Your government has invested basically nothing on its infrastructure, while it's been maintaining foreign military bases that have been largely redundant since the invention of jet aircraft. 60 percent of the Federal budget goes to the military.

Of the remainder, the government has been paying people to crap out kids. Not paying that much, or to that many people, but it's been happening, and it's one of the reasons why you don't have a job. While they were asleep at the wheel, a paradigm shift away from physical labor happened. 80 percent or more of the jobs in manufacturing have disappeared during your lifetime if you're over 20. People have moved elsewhere, but they're crowding too many people for too few jobs.

The bottom line is that it takes fewer people to make the products to make the money for the rich. They don't need your help anymore, and you can't force them to need you again. What you can do is get a degree in something USEFUL. Even then, you're odds are pretty bleak unless you specifically find a niche that not enough people are learning- but it's not going to be in the creative arts. Film degree? 10 percent odds of ever finding work with it. Graphic design? Don't make me laugh- people don't take these degrees in order to work, they take them in a misguided attempt to AVOID working.

Get an engineering degree. Get a biology degree. Get any science degree and you'll probably be fine. you won't have to worry about everyone else getting one because most people aren't smart enough.
 
2012-09-04 09:07:57 AM

DoBeDoBeDo: PROFITS are up but REVENUES are not. All that happens to keep profit up when revenue is down or stagnent is to cut costs. But that's a game with a dead end. You can only cut costs for so long until you have no workforce or assets.

The problem is investors that are not in for the long haul, they expect ever higher profits without taking into account that sometimes you have to reinvest your profits to keep the company innovating.

It's why we have companies that post record profits in q1 and chapter 11 in q4. Completely insane. Companies like Cat are cut to the bone, they have nothing left to cut and no new buyers. They have huge profit now, but they are still on the verge of destruction.


There's always room to cut. Baskin Robbins no longer actually MAKES ice cream. They are simply a brand and a franchise that can be slapped on any old ice cream that any factory in any third-world piss hole can make. IBM is gradually moving out of making anything as well. After they've divested themselves of all their chip and hardware stuff, they'll kill off their services stuff by subcontracting it all to companies and IBM will also simply be a brand to tack onto whatever low-cost provider(s) they can sign on in whatever labor market provides the phonebanks cheapest. It's happening everywhere.

And getting a science job doesn't help. Have you looked at hiring and demand in pharma, biotech and chem? It's all subcontracts, temporary, and short-term grunt work. Lean, "sigma 6" and flexible is the way to go now. Why bother hiring and laying off when you can shrink and grow your staffing with a quick renegotiation of contract with a temp staffing provider. A tiny hand-full of manager oversee disposable inventories of drones who follow developed SOP's and run highly automated equipment. Most research is done by post-docs paid at the poverty level and consultants who work 6-month contracts and are sent packing with non-disclosure agreements that mean they can't redeploy any of the skills they just acquired. Unless you are willing to relocate to Asia, where all those jobs are going, and accept the local pay, you'll live like a mercenary. Forget buying a house. You'll need to pull up tent-stakes and follow the jobs across the country and world every quarter or 6-months. And good luck finding a spouse who can find work in the same city. I know too many scientist types who make cross-country conjugal visits with their S.O. on odd weekends because no single job market can employ both of them simultaneously.
 
2012-09-04 12:21:36 PM

Bob16: This is what it's like to live in the middle of failed capitalism

Everyday you wake up to news of more failure, decay and rot.

Now go turn on your TV and lap up the corporate swill that tells you how this is the best possible economic system


Which is tighter: your Che Guevara t-shirt, or your jeans?
 
2012-09-04 01:49:16 PM

spelletrader: Bob16: This is what it's like to live in the middle of failed capitalism

Everyday you wake up to news of more failure, decay and rot.

Now go turn on your TV and lap up the corporate swill that tells you how this is the best possible economic system

Which is tighter: your Che Guevara t-shirt, or your jeans?


Our jeans and Che shirts may be tight, but at least are assholes aren't loose from having a big red white and blue dildo stuffed up there on a daily basis.
 
2012-09-04 02:09:14 PM

FarkedOver: spelletrader: Bob16: This is what it's like to live in the middle of failed capitalism

Everyday you wake up to news of more failure, decay and rot.

Now go turn on your TV and lap up the corporate swill that tells you how this is the best possible economic system

Which is tighter: your Che Guevara t-shirt, or your jeans?

Our jeans and Che shirts may be tight, but at least are assholes aren't loose from having a big red white and blue dildo stuffed up there on a daily basis.


Hell it's your story snowflake, tell it anyway that you like.
 
2012-09-04 02:12:34 PM

Mechanic81: The difference between us and Germany? They protect their domestic market. Oh, and they have an education system that doesnt insist on sending everyone to college. They still have vocational training. Japan is the same way.


I have been screaming this from the mountain top for years! Why is it an embarrassment if your child decides to be a welder, mechanic or HVAC technician?

Everyone is not cut out for college. In fact, my feelings are that there are plenty of current college students who have no business being on anyone's college campus! In declaring that the only path to the American Dream runs directly through college we've devalued the middle class blue collar worker to the point of embarrassment. And it is done to our detriment. Even the middle class saw the writing on the wall in the early 80s and pushed their kids to go to college because manufacturing was getting gutted. The days of going to technical school and then on to a job that provided a living wage and benefits were going away.

This dream of a utopia full of smart college educated people forgot the most important part of the equation: smart people with critical thinking skills and the means by which "dirty" work must get done. We are doomed to be a country full of half-wit administrators with watered-down degrees that lack common sense and can't change a flat tire. But god forbid they pay the guy who works on their air conditioning, plumbing or aircraft more than $10 per hour because, hell, "I spent $50K on an undergrad education" and the technician is "just a grease monkey with little or no education."
 
2012-09-04 06:31:57 PM
Boogerwolf, by the time you add up all the training in classrooms and online that a dealership Master Technician gets from the OEM they damn near have enough hours for a Masters. Easily. And the pay aint bad. I'm equal parts plumber, electrician, computer repairman and HVAC man before I ever get around to doing anything with an engine. the continuing education requirements keep me busy as well. The latest addition to my bag of certifications is my brand's new Electric car. So now Im a High Voltage Electrician.

but back in High school, I too looked down on the vocational kids. On a personal level, that was totally justified. but looking back I wish i'd been in there. i'd have been far happier. Instead I went back to school at 25 to learn to work on cars. the community college program I came out of is under constant threat of being cut. They want to focus on transfer prep to the 4 year schools. I actually have a bachelor's in Law enforcement. I make a little bit better money with way better hours and a fraction of the stress compared to my cop friends. I also have an AS in engineering (transfer prep), and I kick myself for deciding that engineering class work was too dry and then studying to be a cop. I really want to finish that out into a BS and convert that and my Master tech status into a nice job at an OEM working on powertrain.
 
2012-09-05 12:50:32 AM
It was socialism that made Russia and the U.S. the powerhouse economies they are today, my friends.
 
2012-09-05 07:37:57 AM

boogerwolf: Mechanic81: The difference between us and Germany? They protect their domestic market. Oh, and they have an education system that doesnt insist on sending everyone to college. They still have vocational training. Japan is the same way.

I have been screaming this from the mountain top for years! Why is it an embarrassment if your child decides to be a welder, mechanic or HVAC technician?

Everyone is not cut out for college. In fact, my feelings are that there are plenty of current college students who have no business being on anyone's college campus! In declaring that the only path to the American Dream runs directly through college we've devalued the middle class blue collar worker to the point of embarrassment. And it is done to our detriment. Even the middle class saw the writing on the wall in the early 80s and pushed their kids to go to college because manufacturing was getting gutted. The days of going to technical school and then on to a job that provided a living wage and benefits were going away.

This dream of a utopia full of smart college educated people forgot the most important part of the equation: smart people with critical thinking skills and the means by which "dirty" work must get done. We are doomed to be a country full of half-wit administrators with watered-down degrees that lack common sense and can't change a flat tire. But god forbid they pay the guy who works on their air conditioning, plumbing or aircraft more than $10 per hour because, hell, "I spent $50K on an undergrad education" and the technician is "just a grease monkey with little or no education."


Having done both, there is quite the difference between a lot (dare I say most?) manufacturing/plant jobs and skilled tradesmen. Unless you're the plant electrician or something. I don't count being a really good fork truck operator or line picker or or shrink wrapper as a skilled trade, and generally from what I see the pay is commensurate. The last licensed plumber I had do work for me was charging $30/hr.
 
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