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(KTAR Phoenix)   Frat house booted over hazing cases, sleeping with Dean Wormer's wife   (ktar.com) divider line 122
    More: Interesting, Dean Wormer, hazing, civil engineers, Daily Star, hazing cases, Tau Kappa Epsilon, dean  
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6853 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Sep 2012 at 11:17 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-03 11:20:25 AM
Seven years down the drain...
 
2012-09-03 11:21:44 AM
Why do educational institutes even endorse these social clubs? I'm not saying they should be banned outright, just that they should be unaffiliated with the schools.

Then again, I also don't think there should be sports teams... Call me crazy, but I happen to think college should be about education.

/If you want to play a sport, join your local league/gym.
 
2012-09-03 11:22:25 AM
And the incident with the mayor's underage daughter.
"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!"
 
2012-09-03 11:23:10 AM
Assume the position.
 
2012-09-03 11:25:29 AM
"Germans?"
 
2012-09-03 11:26:45 AM

gregoire4: "Germans?"


Forget it, he's rolling.
 
2012-09-03 11:27:03 AM
The fraternity/sorority thing is an utter mystery to me as an Englishman. I never saw anything that I would consider similar to it when I attended university ("college"). Can someone explain what it is/why people join them/what their purpose is?
 
2012-09-03 11:27:26 AM
The only time we got in trouble was when we hauled a bunch of old furniture onto the roof, set it on fire and threw it into the volleyball pit.

/alcohol-related incident
//we had a cheering crowd, too!
 
2012-09-03 11:27:28 AM

Honest Bender: Why do educational institutes even endorse these social clubs? I'm not saying they should be banned outright, just that they should be unaffiliated with the schools.

Then again, I also don't think there should be sports teams... Call me crazy, but I happen to think college should be about education.

/If you want to play a sport, join your local league/gym.


Perhaps because we put up more community service hours and dollars than all the other organizations on campus combined, or that we bring in millions in alumni dollars to the university every year.
 
2012-09-03 11:28:08 AM
When something seems bad, turn it around and smack it in the ass.
 
2012-09-03 11:29:16 AM

Amnestic: The fraternity/sorority thing is an utter mystery to me as an Englishman. I never saw anything that I would consider similar to it when I attended university ("college"). Can someone explain what it is/why people join them/what their purpose is?


Huh. The mythology this side of the pond is that upper crust universities in the UK are full of secret societies?
 
2012-09-03 11:29:20 AM

Amnestic: The fraternity/sorority thing is an utter mystery to me as an Englishman. I never saw anything that I would consider similar to it when I attended university ("college"). Can someone explain what it is/why people join them/what their purpose is?


It varies. Some people join for the leadership experience, some for the brotherhood, some for the girls, some for the alcohol and finally, some for a mix of all of the above. Toss me into that last category. Basically, we're giant secret social clubs that do philanthropy and drink heavily.
 
2012-09-03 11:29:38 AM

Amnestic: The fraternity/sorority thing is an utter mystery to me as an Englishman. I never saw anything that I would consider similar to it when I attended university ("college"). Can someone explain what it is/why people join them/what their purpose is?


To explore their latent homosexuality.

/nttiatwwt
 
2012-09-03 11:33:58 AM

nekulor: Amnestic: The fraternity/sorority thing is an utter mystery to me as an Englishman. I never saw anything that I would consider similar to it when I attended university ("college"). Can someone explain what it is/why people join them/what their purpose is?

It varies. Some people join for the leadership experience, some for the brotherhood, some for the girls, some for the alcohol and finally, some for a mix of all of the above. Toss me into that last category. Basically, we're giant secret social clubs that do philanthropy and drink heavily.


This. Also allows networking opportunities with alumni to help you find a job after graduation.
 
2012-09-03 11:34:52 AM

nekulor: Perhaps because we put up more community service hours and dollars than all the other organizations on campus combined, or that we bring in millions in alumni dollars to the university every year.


Community service is a noble endeavor and speaks well of your social club. But that doesn't necessitate an affiliation with a school of higher learning. Bringing in money through alumni booster drives is nice and all, but it's a strawman. The school can manage its own alumni and fund raising.

College/university should be about education. Period. If you feel the need to join a social club, that's fine. But I don't see the need to tie your club to a school.
 
2012-09-03 11:35:41 AM

sbskeeper: nekulor: Amnestic: The fraternity/sorority thing is an utter mystery to me as an Englishman. I never saw anything that I would consider similar to it when I attended university ("college"). Can someone explain what it is/why people join them/what their purpose is?

It varies. Some people join for the leadership experience, some for the brotherhood, some for the girls, some for the alcohol and finally, some for a mix of all of the above. Toss me into that last category. Basically, we're giant secret social clubs that do philanthropy and drink heavily.

This. Also allows networking opportunities with alumni to help you find a job after graduation.


Yup. Trying to get something in pharmaceuticals through one of our alumni when I graduate.
 
2012-09-03 11:37:12 AM
Calling TKE an actual fraternity is a stretch at most colleges
 
2012-09-03 11:39:57 AM

Honest Bender: nekulor: Perhaps because we put up more community service hours and dollars than all the other organizations on campus combined, or that we bring in millions in alumni dollars to the university every year.

Community service is a noble endeavor and speaks well of your social club. But that doesn't necessitate an affiliation with a school of higher learning. Bringing in money through alumni booster drives is nice and all, but it's a strawman. The school can manage its own alumni and fund raising.

College/university should be about education. Period. If you feel the need to join a social club, that's fine. But I don't see the need to tie your club to a school.


It's been this way since the 1820's. I see no reason to change the tradition now. Besides, you have all fraternities disaffiliate from the university and go off campus, and you create something far more destructive than you could ever imagine. Schools that have tried it have ended up with a greek community with no oversight and no liability beyond actual legal violations. The off campus chapters here are a wonderful example, and they're insane. The university gains nothing from removing greeks from campus, would lose tons of alumni support, a good chunk of money and take a lot of PR hits from the normal media and those outlets sympathetic to the complaints of our national organizations. In short, we're powerful enough thanks to money and contacts that we can make it very, very messy for a university to do what you're suggesting, and we have no issues doing just that.
 
2012-09-03 11:40:17 AM
Tom McAninch? That sucks.
 
2012-09-03 11:40:37 AM

nekulor: Yup. Trying to get something in pharmaceuticals through one of our alumni when I graduate.


Frats are usually great sources of pharmaceuticals
 
2012-09-03 11:41:34 AM

Honest Bender: Why do educational institutes even endorse these social clubs? I'm not saying they should be banned outright, just that they should be unaffiliated with the schools.

Then again, I also don't think there should be sports teams... Call me crazy, but I happen to think college should be about education.

/If you want to play a sport, join your local league/gym.


Yeah, that college sounds like a blast, why not just go to Wyotech instead.
 
2012-09-03 11:42:34 AM

nekulor: Honest Bender: nekulor: Perhaps because we put up more community service hours and dollars than all the other organizations on campus combined, or that we bring in millions in alumni dollars to the university every year.

Community service is a noble endeavor and speaks well of your social club. But that doesn't necessitate an affiliation with a school of higher learning. Bringing in money through alumni booster drives is nice and all, but it's a strawman. The school can manage its own alumni and fund raising.

College/university should be about education. Period. If you feel the need to join a social club, that's fine. But I don't see the need to tie your club to a school.

It's been this way since the 1820's. I see no reason to change the tradition now. Besides, you have all fraternities disaffiliate from the university and go off campus, and you create something far more destructive than you could ever imagine. Schools that have tried it have ended up with a greek community with no oversight and no liability beyond actual legal violations. The off campus chapters here are a wonderful example, and they're insane. The university gains nothing from removing greeks from campus, would lose tons of alumni support, a good chunk of money and take a lot of PR hits from the normal media and those outlets sympathetic to the complaints of our national organizations. In short, we're powerful enough thanks to money and contacts that we can make it very, very messy for a university to do what you're suggesting, and we have no issues doing just that.


Pretty much this. I've seen serious pushes to get the Greek system off college grounds and those pushes have always ended badly.
 
2012-09-03 11:45:10 AM
So; Did the deans wife get pregnant?
 
2012-09-03 11:45:24 AM
They were on double secret probation.
 
2012-09-03 11:45:46 AM
"It's all secret rituals," he said. "It's harmless, no one was ever hurt. But I can't talk about it because it's what makes us a brotherhood dumbasses." 

There. FTFY.
 
2012-09-03 11:45:51 AM
Chapter president Billy Dimitri tells the Arizona Daily Star the fraternity was framed and will appeal. Dimitri, a UA senior studying civil engineering, said the allegations date back to 2010 and were made by "a disgruntled former member we kicked out who's trying to get revenge."

"It's all secret rituals," he said. "It's harmless, no one was ever hurt. But I can't talk about it because so many of us are still in the closet."
 
2012-09-03 11:46:16 AM
Meh, boys will be boys.
 
2012-09-03 11:47:06 AM

Amnestic: The fraternity/sorority thing is an utter mystery to me as an Englishman. I never saw anything that I would consider similar to it when I attended university ("college"). Can someone explain what it is/why people join them/what their purpose is?


This is Fark, all they will tell you is that people who join a Fraternity are subconsciously gay, which is really just a classic sour grapes explanation. The greek system for some schools just enhances the college experience. It's not for everybody, and hazing is really bad, most honest Fraternities have banned hazing decades ago.
 
2012-09-03 11:47:38 AM
So far, I vote for Honest Bender's take on things^^^; I have seen plenty as a member of campus "oversight councils" here and there. But, the Greek thing is so entrenched (regardless of how it does/doesn't resemble its 19th-C. roots) that--like Big College Sports--it's just not going away. College presidents/chancellors, no matter how idealized and lofty their vision, know they're an inescapable fact of life if you want the gig.
 
2012-09-03 11:48:54 AM

redmid17: Calling TKE an actual fraternity is a stretch at most colleges


This, for sure.
 
2012-09-03 11:49:27 AM
UofA seems to have a problem with frats. When I was there, 1-2 got booted and had their national accreditation pulled after a series of hazings and at leat one rape, and it seems about every other year this happens down there.

of course NAU went the other way and built an entire dorm for the frats and sorostitutes. ehhh.
 
2012-09-03 11:50:22 AM

nekulor: In short, we're powerful enough thanks to money and contacts that we can make it very, very messy for a university to do what you're suggesting, and we have no issues doing just that.


Now that we've established your willingness to exert your will on the host to get your way, cutting you out only seems that much more attractive. You could cause a lot of spite-fuelled damage on your way out, but money spent cleaning it up strikes me as an investment in the future.
 
2012-09-03 11:52:57 AM

rickythepenguin: UofA seems to have a problem with frats. When I was there, 1-2 got booted and had their national accreditation pulled after a series of hazings and at leat one rape, and it seems about every other year this happens down there.

of course NAU went the other way and built an entire dorm for the frats and sorostitutes. ehhh.


I see education is not a top priority there as well.
 
2012-09-03 11:53:00 AM

MFAWG: Amnestic: The fraternity/sorority thing is an utter mystery to me as an Englishman. I never saw anything that I would consider similar to it when I attended university ("college"). Can someone explain what it is/why people join them/what their purpose is?

Huh. The mythology this side of the pond is that upper crust universities in the UK are full of secret societies?


The nearest equivalent I can think of (based on my knowledge of the US system, which is based on mostly teen comedy movies, so probably not that accurate) in the UK is the colleges at Oxford/Cambridge, which each have their own campuses (and sometimes accommodation) and you are more likely to meet or link up with alumni, but that is due to the organizational structure of the universities in question rather than anything the students are involved in. Most Universities in the UK don't have anything like that anyway - you would mostly socialize with people on the same course, people you happen to end up living with (in the same house, not the same room - shared bedrooms would be an oddity in the UK), or any clubs you join.
 
2012-09-03 11:53:27 AM
The Greek system?

So paying no taxes on a full day's work while showing up late to work half a day?
 
2012-09-03 11:55:26 AM
If you get told over and over to stop doing what your doing; how does this make you more qualified for a job like the pharms?
 
2012-09-03 11:57:47 AM

nekulor: It's been this way since the 1820's. I see no reason to change the tradition now.


I'm sure you don't. But that doesn't really address my question of why they should be affiliated with schools in the first place.

Besides, you have all fraternities disaffiliate from the university and go off campus, and you create something far more destructive than you could ever imagine. Schools that have tried it have ended up with a greek community with no oversight and no liability beyond actual legal violations.

So? They're already beholden to the law. If they're the upstanding institutions you claim, then they shouldn't need any additional oversight. If they're such rapscallions that they need additional oversight, then why would a school want to be affiliated with such a group?

In short, we're powerful enough thanks to money and contacts that we can make it very, very messy for a university to do what you're suggesting, and we have no issues doing just that.

Do you recognize how self serving that is? It makes your club sound like more of a leech on the school system than a credit to it. I'm willing to admit that social clubs bring in money, but as I said, schools are perfectly capable of managing their own alumni system.

Honestly, your arguments are making it sound like your frat is more of a cancer on the educational system. Try to cut you off and you'll "make things messy" for them. And if you do succeed, well, they'll just turn into out of control hooligans! Does that sound like the kind of organization that should be associated with higher learning? I think you're making my argument for me...
 
2012-09-03 11:58:17 AM

MFAWG: Huh. The mythology this side of the pond is that upper crust universities in the UK are full of secret societies?


Well they wouldn't be much of a secret if I just went ahead and told you about them, would they?
 
2012-09-03 12:02:41 PM

nekulor: Honest Bender: nekulor: Perhaps because we put up more community service hours and dollars than all the other organizations on campus combined, or that we bring in millions in alumni dollars to the university every year.

Community service is a noble endeavor and speaks well of your social club. But that doesn't necessitate an affiliation with a school of higher learning. Bringing in money through alumni booster drives is nice and all, but it's a strawman. The school can manage its own alumni and fund raising.

College/university should be about education. Period. If you feel the need to join a social club, that's fine. But I don't see the need to tie your club to a school.

It's been this way since the 1820's. I see no reason to change the tradition now. Besides, you have all fraternities disaffiliate from the university and go off campus, and you create something far more destructive than you could ever imagine. Schools that have tried it have ended up with a greek community with no oversight and no liability beyond actual legal violations. The off campus chapters here are a wonderful example, and they're insane. The university gains nothing from removing greeks from campus, would lose tons of alumni support, a good chunk of money and take a lot of PR hits from the normal media and those outlets sympathetic to the complaints of our national organizations. In short, we're powerful enough thanks to money and contacts that we can make it very, very messy for a university to do what you're suggesting, and we have no issues doing just that.


enjoy being an elitist biatch, it fits you.
 
2012-09-03 12:10:00 PM

Honest Bender: nekulor: It's been this way since the 1820's. I see no reason to change the tradition now.

I'm sure you don't. But that doesn't really address my question of why they should be affiliated with schools in the first place.

Besides, you have all fraternities disaffiliate from the university and go off campus, and you create something far more destructive than you could ever imagine. Schools that have tried it have ended up with a greek community with no oversight and no liability beyond actual legal violations.

So? They're already beholden to the law. If they're the upstanding institutions you claim, then they shouldn't need any additional oversight. If they're such rapscallions that they need additional oversight, then why would a school want to be affiliated with such a group?

In short, we're powerful enough thanks to money and contacts that we can make it very, very messy for a university to do what you're suggesting, and we have no issues doing just that.

Do you recognize how self serving that is? It makes your club sound like more of a leech on the school system than a credit to it. I'm willing to admit that social clubs bring in money, but as I said, schools are perfectly capable of managing their own alumni system.

Honestly, your arguments are making it sound like your frat is more of a cancer on the educational system. Try to cut you off and you'll "make things messy" for them. And if you do succeed, well, they'll just turn into out of control hooligans! Does that sound like the kind of organization that should be associated with higher learning? I think you're making my argument for me...


Look, I get you don't like the idea of us being associated with the university, and that's fine. However, your assertions that anything can and should be done about it are basically pointless. We have some of the most powerful people in the country supporting us. We're a bulwark of college life that has gone, mostly, unchallenged for the better part of 200 years. We're intelligent, social, and tied to the very core of this country's power structure. More than half the current members of congress were greek. More than 70% of the top execs in the fortune 500 are greek. Every president except for Obama and one other from the time fraternities have existed have been greek.

I'm simply saying that you may not like us or the fact that we're tied into the schools, but we're not going anywhere. We have too much personal support from alumni and university officials themselves for that to ever be a problem. Most of the schools that once did away with greek systems are considering bringing them back due to the massive loss of alumni support and interest in the day to day workings of the university. The thing is, being greek does exactly what we claim it does: you build a life long bond to your brothers or sisters and your university. We can, in fact, occasionally be out of control hooligans. I have done some incredibly stupid shiat in my time, but I've learned important lessons from it. Mostly, it sounds like you're opposed to kids being kids and enjoying a bit of social development and networking outside of classes.

As Mark Twain said, "Never let formal education get in the way of your learning." If you go to college and only learn things out of a book and in class, you're doing it wrong.
 
2012-09-03 12:16:49 PM

KrispyKritter: nekulor: Honest Bender: nekulor: Perhaps because we put up more community service hours and dollars than all the other organizations on campus combined, or that we bring in millions in alumni dollars to the university every year.

Community service is a noble endeavor and speaks well of your social club. But that doesn't necessitate an affiliation with a school of higher learning. Bringing in money through alumni booster drives is nice and all, but it's a strawman. The school can manage its own alumni and fund raising.

College/university should be about education. Period. If you feel the need to join a social club, that's fine. But I don't see the need to tie your club to a school.

It's been this way since the 1820's. I see no reason to change the tradition now. Besides, you have all fraternities disaffiliate from the university and go off campus, and you create something far more destructive than you could ever imagine. Schools that have tried it have ended up with a greek community with no oversight and no liability beyond actual legal violations. The off campus chapters here are a wonderful example, and they're insane. The university gains nothing from removing greeks from campus, would lose tons of alumni support, a good chunk of money and take a lot of PR hits from the normal media and those outlets sympathetic to the complaints of our national organizations. In short, we're powerful enough thanks to money and contacts that we can make it very, very messy for a university to do what you're suggesting, and we have no issues doing just that.

enjoy being an elitist biatch, it fits you.


Thanks, I will.
 
2012-09-03 12:18:55 PM

nekulor: I'm simply saying that you may not like us or the fact that we're tied into the schools, but we're not going anywhere.


Again, you're missing the point. My argument is that such organizations have no business being affiliated with schools. And you keep coming back with some variation on, "well we're here to stay, so there!" I'm not arguing that frats are firmly entrenched in the school system. I'm arguing that there's no need for them to be affiliated with schools.

I guess at this point I'll just consider you to have agreed with me.
 
2012-09-03 12:20:54 PM

Theaetetus: Chapter president Billy Dimitri tells the Arizona Daily Star the fraternity was framed and will appeal. Dimitri, a UA senior studying civil engineering, said the allegations date back to 2010 and were made by "a disgruntled former member we kicked out who's trying to get revenge."

"It's all secret rituals," he said. "It's harmless, no one was ever hurt. But I can't talk about it because so many of us are still in the closet."


There is actually a certain portion of these clubs that sexually molest their new recruits as a part of the initiation process, which they film and sell to porn distributors.
 
2012-09-03 12:21:12 PM
That Mrs. Wormer loves her some produce aisle!
 
2012-09-03 12:21:27 PM
suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com
 
2012-09-03 12:23:38 PM

Honest Bender: nekulor: I'm simply saying that you may not like us or the fact that we're tied into the schools, but we're not going anywhere.

Again, you're missing the point. My argument is that such organizations have no business being affiliated with schools. And you keep coming back with some variation on, "well we're here to stay, so there!" I'm not arguing that frats are firmly entrenched in the school system. I'm arguing that there's no need for them to be affiliated with schools.

I guess at this point I'll just consider you to have agreed with me.


By your argument, no club or organisation should be affiliated with the school unless it is purely academic. That's antithetical to the way university life in this country is structured. What you're suggesting is a much more european take on higher education and, frankly, it makes for a very weird university experience compared to our own. What exactly is your root issue with student organizations? That they distract from learning? Because the people I study with are the same people I go out with on a regular basis through greek life here. If anything, I survived a few classes BECAUSE of the fraternity. I guarantee you I would have failed organic chemistry without the brothers I studied with.
 
2012-09-03 12:26:45 PM
I will never pay to have friends. Despite the fact I'm on Fark, I'm quite capable of making friends on my own.

Fun fact: If I see you list a frat on your resume, it goes right into the garbage.
 
2012-09-03 12:27:08 PM

Civil Discourse: Theaetetus: Chapter president Billy Dimitri tells the Arizona Daily Star the fraternity was framed and will appeal. Dimitri, a UA senior studying civil engineering, said the allegations date back to 2010 and were made by "a disgruntled former member we kicked out who's trying to get revenge."

"It's all secret rituals," he said. "It's harmless, no one was ever hurt. But I can't talk about it because so many of us are still in the closet."

There is actually a certain portion of these clubs that sexually molest their new recruits as a part of the initiation process, which they film and sell to porn distributors.


[Citation Needed] on this one. I mean, occasionally chapters have really farked up hazing, but I've never heard of this actually happening at any school, anywhere. Schools with decent oversight are surprisingly good at figuring out when shiat like that is going on and any chapter that pulled something like that would be immediately kicked out by the university and ostracized by the rest of the greek community. That's just not OK.
 
2012-09-03 12:30:49 PM

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: I will never pay to have friends. Despite the fact I'm on Fark, I'm quite capable of making friends on my own.

Fun fact: If I see you list a frat on your resume, it goes right into the garbage.


weknowmemes.com
 
2012-09-03 12:32:42 PM

Civil Discourse: Theaetetus: Chapter president Billy Dimitri tells the Arizona Daily Star the fraternity was framed and will appeal. Dimitri, a UA senior studying civil engineering, said the allegations date back to 2010 and were made by "a disgruntled former member we kicked out who's trying to get revenge."

"It's all secret rituals," he said. "It's harmless, no one was ever hurt. But I can't talk about it because so many of us are still in the closet."

There is actually a certain portion of these clubs that sexually molest their new recruits as a part of the initiation process, which they film and sell to porn distributors.


Citation needed
 
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