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(NYPost)   What they say: Bain's a horrible evil corporate scumweasel blight on all that is noble and good, who will be first against the wall when the revolution comes. What they do: Sheeeeit, would you look at those returns. We're parking our money at Bain   (nypost.com) divider line 20
    More: Obvious, Sheeeeit, Ford Foundation, pension system, evils, walls  
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1923 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Sep 2012 at 9:36 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-09-02 09:44:03 AM  
4 votes:
Oh, come on. Romney and his ilk claim to be entitled to outlandish compensation because they are taking the big risks and therefore deserve the big rewards. But the whole point to the Bain controversy is that, under their business plan, there are no risks. Not to them anyway, or their investors. The whole thing is set up as a huge Ponzi scheme where a privileged class of investors is guaranteed a high return whatever the outcome for the companies at risk and their employees. It may be legal (it undoubtedly is), but it is also highly unethical, no ifs ands or buts. You may be entitled in this country to make your living as a vulture capitalist, but that far from qualifies you to be President of the United States; in fact, precisely the opposite.
2012-09-02 10:13:03 AM  
3 votes:

o5iiawah: There is absolutely risk to them since nobody is parking their pension funds in a venture capital company that keeps buying businesses that have no shot at profitability/sustainability.


What a crock. Bain doesn't give a shiat about profitability, and even less about sustainability. They only care about making a profit for themselves. If they can do that by making the company profitable, fine. But if they can make a faster profit by looting the company and dumping the remains, that's fine with them too.
2012-09-02 10:05:58 AM  
3 votes:
Companies like Bain (with regulation) definitely have a place in our economy. So do strip clubs.

That doesn't mean I'd want a strip club owner running our country. Or, even if there were a guy who happened to be a strip club owner and also happened to be fit to be president, I'd laugh him off my ballot if he tried to claim that his record of training girls to get guys to buy more $20 glasses of champale somehow made him qualified to run the country.
2012-09-02 10:05:41 AM  
3 votes:

o5iiawah: clambam: But the whole point to the Bain controversy is that, under their business plan, there are no risks. Not to them anyway, or their investors.

Are you high? Here's how this sort of business-y thing works since you obviously havent a clue

-Pension fund gives Bain $40M to invest since Bain has a good record of return
- Bain finds a struggling company that needs money/leadership
- Bain invests the pension fund money in the company in an effort to turn it around.
- Company gets turned around - Pension fund profits, Bain makes money.

Or, If Bain loses or bets on the wrong company, they have to find success in other companies elsewhere. There is absolutely risk to them since nobody is parking their pension funds in a venture capital company that keeps buying businesses that have no shot at profitability/sustainability.

If you have any idea how this stuff works, you'll learn quickly it is of no advantage to bain to buy a company, shut the doors, give cancer to the steelworkers wives and laugh at them. It is better off for everyone if the doors of the company stay open and in 80% or so of instances that is exactly what happens.

Everyone whiffs in their personal/professional life. Success is determined by how infrequent the failures and how it is mitigated by the successes.


Nowhere in your post did you mention the phrases "cash cow," "leveraged buyout," or "dividend recapitalization." Until you can do that, you don't know jack.
2012-09-02 10:15:48 AM  
2 votes:

Serious Black:
Nowhere in your post did you mention the phrases "cash cow," "leveraged buyout," or "dividend recapitalization." Until you can do that, you don't know jack.


Thank you. Bain's buyouts rarely use more than 15% of Bain money, the rest is borrowed and the newly bought company is saddled with the debt and "management fees"
2012-09-02 09:53:45 AM  
2 votes:

clambam: Oh, come on. Romney and his ilk claim to be entitled to outlandish compensation because they are taking the big risks and therefore deserve the big rewards. But the whole point to the Bain controversy is that, under their business plan, there are no risks. Not to them anyway, or their investors. The whole thing is set up as a huge Ponzi scheme where a privileged class of investors is guaranteed a high return whatever the outcome for the companies at risk and their employees. It may be legal (it undoubtedly is), but it is also highly unethical, no ifs ands or buts. You may be entitled in this country to make your living as a vulture capitalist, but that far from qualifies you to be President of the United States; in fact, precisely the opposite.


While the rest of your post is spot on, can we please stop using "Ponzi scheme" as a catchall term for every financial scam? Ponzi schemes are a very specific kind of scam, designed to screw over exactly those big investors who benefit from Bain-style vulture capitalism.
2012-09-02 09:49:00 AM  
2 votes:
I still want to see Romney's tax returns.
2012-09-02 03:35:44 PM  
1 votes:
25.media.tumblr.com

First one? Really? Fark, I am disappoint.
2012-09-02 01:10:04 PM  
1 votes:

o5iiawah:
-Pension fund gives Bain $40M to invest since Bain has a good record of return
- Bain finds a struggling company that needs money/leadership
- Bain invests the pension fund money in the company in an effort to turn it around.
- Company gets turned around - Pension fund profits, Bain makes money.


What twaddle. Look at the case of GS Steel - or let me outline it for you, I'll put in a few rough numbers:

- Bain and other vultures of their ilk finds a steel mill for sale.
- Bain etc. acquires a controlling interest in the steel mill. Bain, specifically, invests $8 million.
- Bain etc. uses their control of the company to issue bonds. The money is to be used for dividends.
- Bain etc. are the major stockholders (controlling interest) and Bain specifically receives 30+ million in dividends.
- The steel mill staggers on, but at the first sign of crisis in the industry, cannot service the debt and shuts its doors.

Bain's income didn't come from inspired leadership of a steel mill, it came from the fact that the debt was in GS Steel's name, while the dividends went to the stockholders. Now, Bain would undoubtedly have preferred the steel mill to run on, but their investment was recouped, with a robust profit, in the first year. So - spare us the "risk" BS.
2012-09-02 10:53:16 AM  
1 votes:

MFAWG: Linux_Yes: Publically, Big Business/Wealthy speak derisively about the Government.

Privately, they're licking their lips with all those bennies they get from the Government. but its not socialism because its them, not the little people, who are getting it.

And that's the type of Republican Romney is: He just sees a big pile of money sitting there, and he wants to get his hands on it.


It also explains why there is nothing more boring than an amerikan today.

Raygun's "greed is good" message didn't just corrupt the national zeitgesist. It made americans the most predictable, one dimensional, bland and homogenized people on the planet.

We are a nation of the walking dead. We have businesses but we don't have lives. Go and consume mass quantities my fellow americans.

Youre Maslows bottom feeders.
2012-09-02 10:50:13 AM  
1 votes:
Here's the thing Republicans can't seem to wrap their heads around:

Microeconomic success isn't the same thing as macronomic experience.

Yes, Bain Capital is a successful (yet sleazy) business. Yes, Mitt Romney knows how to turn a huge profit in the corporate world. He should be proud of that. And as long as he's paying proper taxes, he should be able to keep every bit of profit he's earned.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the skills needed to run an administration. The role of the administration isn't to turn a profit - it's to spend taxpayer money as efficiently as possible without disrupting or cutting services. In the corporate world - you cut an underperforming program. In the government sector - you audit them, find inefficiencies, and figure out how they can accomplish the same task with fewer resources. You can combine or downsize things behind the scenes as long as the American public isn't affected by the reductions

HP and Dell can outsource call and data centers to India. The National Weather Service can't.
Best Buy can close shops in dying communities. USPS can't.
US Bank can move their initial job training to the internet. The US Army can't.

Corporate-minded vultures like Romney, Ryan, and many other Republicans just want to arbitrarily cut programs they deem wasteful. They're taking a corporate ownership approach to public service. And it's slowly turning us into something like the United Arab Emirates, when our goal should be more in line with Australia or the Scandinavian countries. President Obama's administration isn't perfect, but it at least understands the actual role of the federal government.
2012-09-02 10:27:20 AM  
1 votes:
maryschmidt.com

Here the invisible President only Republicans can see addresses the invisible libs and welfare leeches only Republicans can see.
2012-09-02 10:24:07 AM  
1 votes:

smitty04: Obama's investment.
[ww3.hdnux.com image 628x408]


Ah yes...Bush's pet project.
2012-09-02 10:17:45 AM  
1 votes:
There is no inconsistency here, subby.

Q1: Where do I park my money for the best return?

Q2: Is this ruthless vulture capitalist who calls himself a "businessman" really the better candidate for President of the United States?

A1: Good guys finish last.

A2: Not unless you are a card-carrying member of the 1%.
2012-09-02 10:10:32 AM  
1 votes:
* State Teachers Retirement System of Ohio ($767.3 million)

OMG Pull that money out now and let the place collapse. Bain is an evil capitalistic organization.
2012-09-02 10:03:14 AM  
1 votes:

o5iiawah: - Bain finds a struggling company that needs money/leadership


A lot of the companies Bain has bought haven't been struggling. Also putting pension money into a company like Bain is just idiotic. And in any case, Bain uses borrowed money for most of what it does. Borrowed money it makes the companies it buys responsible for paying back. If the company can't pay it back, Bain suffers not at all for it.
2012-09-02 09:55:49 AM  
1 votes:

A Terrible Human: I still want to see Romney's tax returns.


Would you understand them?
2012-09-02 09:49:30 AM  
1 votes:
And so? The selling point of Romney with Bain was that they "saved companies and created jobs". It doesn't change the fact that this narrative is a lie and that was never the intention of Bain's business model.
2012-09-02 09:46:16 AM  
1 votes:
that's common knowledge. Big Business and Government sleep together every night --boffing away when the other 95% go without. where have you been? Big Business and the wealthy in this Nation get far more goodies/freebies/favors from the Government than the bottom 95% do. course, its not Socialism because The Owners are getting it.

its only Socialism when the bottom 95% get goverment 'benefits'.

without Governemnt, a sh*tload of companies in the U.S.A. would go out of business, so many are on the government tit.

aint' Freedom great!!
2012-09-02 09:40:49 AM  
1 votes:
Subby: "We're parking our money at Bain"
Article: "Many would be startled to learn that their nest eggs are incubated by the company that Romney launched and the financiers he hired." (emphasis is mine)
 
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