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(NYPost)   What they say: Bain's a horrible evil corporate scumweasel blight on all that is noble and good, who will be first against the wall when the revolution comes. What they do: Sheeeeit, would you look at those returns. We're parking our money at Bain   (nypost.com) divider line 103
    More: Obvious, Sheeeeit, Ford Foundation, pension system, evils, walls  
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1922 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Sep 2012 at 9:36 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-02 09:40:49 AM  
Subby: "We're parking our money at Bain"
Article: "Many would be startled to learn that their nest eggs are incubated by the company that Romney launched and the financiers he hired." (emphasis is mine)
 
2012-09-02 09:41:01 AM  
Was that wrong? Should they not have done that?

/didn't read tfa
 
2012-09-02 09:43:53 AM  
This just in: global vice index is best index.
 
2012-09-02 09:44:03 AM  
Oh, come on. Romney and his ilk claim to be entitled to outlandish compensation because they are taking the big risks and therefore deserve the big rewards. But the whole point to the Bain controversy is that, under their business plan, there are no risks. Not to them anyway, or their investors. The whole thing is set up as a huge Ponzi scheme where a privileged class of investors is guaranteed a high return whatever the outcome for the companies at risk and their employees. It may be legal (it undoubtedly is), but it is also highly unethical, no ifs ands or buts. You may be entitled in this country to make your living as a vulture capitalist, but that far from qualifies you to be President of the United States; in fact, precisely the opposite.
 
2012-09-02 09:46:16 AM  
that's common knowledge. Big Business and Government sleep together every night --boffing away when the other 95% go without. where have you been? Big Business and the wealthy in this Nation get far more goodies/freebies/favors from the Government than the bottom 95% do. course, its not Socialism because The Owners are getting it.

its only Socialism when the bottom 95% get goverment 'benefits'.

without Governemnt, a sh*tload of companies in the U.S.A. would go out of business, so many are on the government tit.

aint' Freedom great!!
 
2012-09-02 09:49:00 AM  
I still want to see Romney's tax returns.
 
2012-09-02 09:49:30 AM  
And so? The selling point of Romney with Bain was that they "saved companies and created jobs". It doesn't change the fact that this narrative is a lie and that was never the intention of Bain's business model.
 
2012-09-02 09:50:06 AM  
Publically, Big Business/Wealthy speak derisively about the Government.

Privately, they're licking their lips with all those bennies they get from the Government. but its not socialism because its them, not the little people, who are getting it.
 
2012-09-02 09:51:25 AM  

A Terrible Human: I still want to see Romney's tax returns.


you won't be seeing them, ever. Annie Rmoney has already said that "you people" have seen all the tax returns you're going to see.

ain't Freedom great!
 
2012-09-02 09:52:23 AM  

A Terrible Human: I still want to see Romney's tax returns.


I predict no one will care about that or TFA because they've got firmly entrenched notions of what each candidate stands for and don't what to ruin them by reviewing anyone's record.
 
2012-09-02 09:52:36 AM  
So... what does this have to do with Obama?
 
2012-09-02 09:53:45 AM  

clambam: Oh, come on. Romney and his ilk claim to be entitled to outlandish compensation because they are taking the big risks and therefore deserve the big rewards. But the whole point to the Bain controversy is that, under their business plan, there are no risks. Not to them anyway, or their investors. The whole thing is set up as a huge Ponzi scheme where a privileged class of investors is guaranteed a high return whatever the outcome for the companies at risk and their employees. It may be legal (it undoubtedly is), but it is also highly unethical, no ifs ands or buts. You may be entitled in this country to make your living as a vulture capitalist, but that far from qualifies you to be President of the United States; in fact, precisely the opposite.


While the rest of your post is spot on, can we please stop using "Ponzi scheme" as a catchall term for every financial scam? Ponzi schemes are a very specific kind of scam, designed to screw over exactly those big investors who benefit from Bain-style vulture capitalism.
 
2012-09-02 09:53:48 AM  
yes, you can make money robbing banks, too. it doesn't make it right.
 
2012-09-02 09:55:49 AM  

A Terrible Human: I still want to see Romney's tax returns.


Would you understand them?
 
2012-09-02 09:55:53 AM  
So how does the second part at all negate the first part again?
 
2012-09-02 10:00:12 AM  

Cataholic: A Terrible Human: I still want to see Romney's tax returns.

Would you understand them?


Pffft the unwashed masses wouldn't get it anyway. I like that defense. You should run with it.
 
2012-09-02 10:00:52 AM  

clambam: But the whole point to the Bain controversy is that, under their business plan, there are no risks. Not to them anyway, or their investors.


Are you high? Here's how this sort of business-y thing works since you obviously havent a clue

-Pension fund gives Bain $40M to invest since Bain has a good record of return
- Bain finds a struggling company that needs money/leadership
- Bain invests the pension fund money in the company in an effort to turn it around.
- Company gets turned around - Pension fund profits, Bain makes money.

Or, If Bain loses or bets on the wrong company, they have to find success in other companies elsewhere. There is absolutely risk to them since nobody is parking their pension funds in a venture capital company that keeps buying businesses that have no shot at profitability/sustainability.

If you have any idea how this stuff works, you'll learn quickly it is of no advantage to bain to buy a company, shut the doors, give cancer to the steelworkers wives and laugh at them. It is better off for everyone if the doors of the company stay open and in 80% or so of instances that is exactly what happens.

Everyone whiffs in their personal/professional life. Success is determined by how infrequent the failures and how it is mitigated by the successes.
 
2012-09-02 10:00:58 AM  

Linux_Yes: Publically, Big Business/Wealthy speak derisively about the Government.

Privately, they're licking their lips with all those bennies they get from the Government. but its not socialism because its them, not the little people, who are getting it.


And that's the type of Republican Romney is: He just sees a big pile of money sitting there, and he wants to get his hands on it.
 
2012-09-02 10:03:14 AM  

o5iiawah: - Bain finds a struggling company that needs money/leadership


A lot of the companies Bain has bought haven't been struggling. Also putting pension money into a company like Bain is just idiotic. And in any case, Bain uses borrowed money for most of what it does. Borrowed money it makes the companies it buys responsible for paying back. If the company can't pay it back, Bain suffers not at all for it.
 
2012-09-02 10:05:41 AM  

o5iiawah: clambam: But the whole point to the Bain controversy is that, under their business plan, there are no risks. Not to them anyway, or their investors.

Are you high? Here's how this sort of business-y thing works since you obviously havent a clue

-Pension fund gives Bain $40M to invest since Bain has a good record of return
- Bain finds a struggling company that needs money/leadership
- Bain invests the pension fund money in the company in an effort to turn it around.
- Company gets turned around - Pension fund profits, Bain makes money.

Or, If Bain loses or bets on the wrong company, they have to find success in other companies elsewhere. There is absolutely risk to them since nobody is parking their pension funds in a venture capital company that keeps buying businesses that have no shot at profitability/sustainability.

If you have any idea how this stuff works, you'll learn quickly it is of no advantage to bain to buy a company, shut the doors, give cancer to the steelworkers wives and laugh at them. It is better off for everyone if the doors of the company stay open and in 80% or so of instances that is exactly what happens.

Everyone whiffs in their personal/professional life. Success is determined by how infrequent the failures and how it is mitigated by the successes.


Nowhere in your post did you mention the phrases "cash cow," "leveraged buyout," or "dividend recapitalization." Until you can do that, you don't know jack.
 
2012-09-02 10:05:58 AM  
Companies like Bain (with regulation) definitely have a place in our economy. So do strip clubs.

That doesn't mean I'd want a strip club owner running our country. Or, even if there were a guy who happened to be a strip club owner and also happened to be fit to be president, I'd laugh him off my ballot if he tried to claim that his record of training girls to get guys to buy more $20 glasses of champale somehow made him qualified to run the country.
 
2012-09-02 10:10:32 AM  
* State Teachers Retirement System of Ohio ($767.3 million)

OMG Pull that money out now and let the place collapse. Bain is an evil capitalistic organization.
 
2012-09-02 10:13:03 AM  

o5iiawah: There is absolutely risk to them since nobody is parking their pension funds in a venture capital company that keeps buying businesses that have no shot at profitability/sustainability.


What a crock. Bain doesn't give a shiat about profitability, and even less about sustainability. They only care about making a profit for themselves. If they can do that by making the company profitable, fine. But if they can make a faster profit by looting the company and dumping the remains, that's fine with them too.
 
2012-09-02 10:13:13 AM  

Fart_Machine: Cataholic: A Terrible Human: I still want to see Romney's tax returns.

Would you understand them?

Pffft the unwashed masses wouldn't get it anyway. I like that defense. You should run with it.


Hey, it works for Ann Romney. I'd explain further, but you people wouldn't understand.
 
2012-09-02 10:15:33 AM  

gsiofa: Subby: "We're parking our money at Bain"
Article: "Many would be startled to learn that their nest eggs are incubated by the company that Romney launched and the financiers he hired." (emphasis is mine)


Don't try to confuse the issue with facts and reason, they have no place in this Republican party.
 
2012-09-02 10:15:48 AM  

Serious Black:
Nowhere in your post did you mention the phrases "cash cow," "leveraged buyout," or "dividend recapitalization." Until you can do that, you don't know jack.


Thank you. Bain's buyouts rarely use more than 15% of Bain money, the rest is borrowed and the newly bought company is saddled with the debt and "management fees"
 
2012-09-02 10:16:53 AM  
Just because I put my money in a fund doesn't mean that I endorse everything the businesses in those funds do.

The expression 'cut off your nose to spite your face' comes to mind.
 
2012-09-02 10:17:45 AM  
There is no inconsistency here, subby.

Q1: Where do I park my money for the best return?

Q2: Is this ruthless vulture capitalist who calls himself a "businessman" really the better candidate for President of the United States?

A1: Good guys finish last.

A2: Not unless you are a card-carrying member of the 1%.
 
2012-09-02 10:19:36 AM  

o5iiawah: clambam: But the whole point to the Bain controversy is that, under their business plan, there are no risks. Not to them anyway, or their investors.

Are you high? Here's how this sort of business-y thing works since you obviously havent a clue

-Pension fund gives Bain $40M to invest since Bain has a good record of return
- Bain finds a struggling company that needs money/leadership
- Bain invests the pension fund money in the company in an effort to turn it around.
- Company gets turned around - Pension fund profits, Bain makes money.

Or, If Bain loses or bets on the wrong company, they have to find success in other companies elsewhere. There is absolutely risk to them since nobody is parking their pension funds in a venture capital company that keeps buying businesses that have no shot at profitability/sustainability.

If you have any idea how this stuff works, you'll learn quickly it is of no advantage to bain to buy a company, shut the doors, give cancer to the steelworkers wives and laugh at them. It is better off for everyone if the doors of the company stay open and in 80% or so of instances that is exactly what happens.

Everyone whiffs in their personal/professional life. Success is determined by how infrequent the failures and how it is mitigated by the successes.


That's the problem....Dem/Libs do not understand how businesses work, probably because most of them are on the Governments tit.
 
2012-09-02 10:21:22 AM  
Obama's investment.
ww3.hdnux.com
 
2012-09-02 10:23:21 AM  

clambam: But the whole point to the Bain controversy is that, under their business plan, there are no risks.


Oh look, another person who learned about the rich from Scrooge McDuck cartoons.
Didn't you even watch trading places? Don't you know that people can and do lose lots of money. If they didn't, everyone would do it.

The reason they did not lose money is because of Romney and the team that he hired and trained.

fta: "Since 1988, Duran says, private-equity companies like Bain have outperformed every other asset class to which CalSTRS has allocated the cash of its 856,360 largely unionized members"

outperformed EVERY OTHER ASSET CLASS.

As Clinton said, Romney has a STERLING record. Get over it.
 
2012-09-02 10:24:07 AM  

smitty04: Obama's investment.
[ww3.hdnux.com image 628x408]


Ah yes...Bush's pet project.
 
2012-09-02 10:24:58 AM  

smitty04: Obama's investment.
[ww3.hdnux.com image 628x408]


The difference is that 0bama's investment was
(a) TAXPAYER money.
(b) structured so the taxpayers are practically last in line in a default (usually last money in is FIRST in line).
 
2012-09-02 10:25:20 AM  
I see the FARK Independents are desperately flailing away again this morning. I really should see about making a RON PAUL 'Its Happening' pic using an empty chair.
 
2012-09-02 10:26:01 AM  

o5iiawah: Or, If Bain loses or bets on the wrong company, they have to find success in other companies elsewhere.


This is untrue. Here's the process:

1) Bain gets seed money from its investors.
2) Using that money as collateral, they take out a loan two orders of magnitude larger.
3) They buy a company, and as part of the purchase, make the company liable for the loan.

At this point, all Bain needs to do is extract more money from the company than the seed money in step (1). And that is what they've done, repeatedly. Certainly, they've also helped companies by providing a big influx of capital. But we'd be fools to believe that Bain did anything more than the bare minimum to maximize its profits. If those companies hadn't already had strong fundamentals, Bain would have gutted them, tied a ton of debt around their ankles, and tossed them in a river.
 
2012-09-02 10:27:20 AM  
maryschmidt.com

Here the invisible President only Republicans can see addresses the invisible libs and welfare leeches only Republicans can see.
 
2012-09-02 10:32:18 AM  
There were a lot of respectable and financially sophisticated investors who gave their money to Bernie Madoff. Doesn't mean he wasn't a crook.
 
2012-09-02 10:32:20 AM  

Mrtraveler01: smitty04: Obama's investment.
[ww3.hdnux.com image 628x408]

Ah yes...Bush's pet project that he was smart enough not to invest in.


ftfy.
too bad 0bama wasn't as smart as Bush about this.
 
2012-09-02 10:32:40 AM  

A Terrible Human: I still want to see Romney's tax returns.


I had almost forgotten about those!*

*
not really
 
2012-09-02 10:32:42 AM  

ferretman: o5iiawah: clambam: But the whole point to the Bain controversy is that, under their business plan, there are no risks. Not to them anyway, or their investors.

Are you high? Here's how this sort of business-y thing works since you obviously havent a clue

-Pension fund gives Bain $40M to invest since Bain has a good record of return
- Bain finds a struggling company that needs money/leadership
- Bain invests the pension fund money in the company in an effort to turn it around.
- Company gets turned around - Pension fund profits, Bain makes money.

Or, If Bain loses or bets on the wrong company, they have to find success in other companies elsewhere. There is absolutely risk to them since nobody is parking their pension funds in a venture capital company that keeps buying businesses that have no shot at profitability/sustainability.

If you have any idea how this stuff works, you'll learn quickly it is of no advantage to bain to buy a company, shut the doors, give cancer to the steelworkers wives and laugh at them. It is better off for everyone if the doors of the company stay open and in 80% or so of instances that is exactly what happens.

Everyone whiffs in their personal/professional life. Success is determined by how infrequent the failures and how it is mitigated by the successes.

That's the problem....Dem/Libs do not understand how businesses work, probably because most of them are on the Governments tit.


If you please sir, a list of companies Bain lost money on; or rather, a list of companies Romney and his co-owners personally lost money on. I suspect they will be damn few.

(I'm responding to hiawatha's post, by the way. Ferret's merely identifies him as a Limbaugh-dittoing mushbrain.)
 
2012-09-02 10:34:31 AM  

Mrtraveler01: smitty04: Obama's investment.
[ww3.hdnux.com image 628x408]

Ah yes...Bush's pet project.


President Obama visited Solyndra in May 2010, heralding the company as "leading the way toward a brighter and more prosperous future." He also cited it as a success story from the government's $787 billion economic stimulus package.
"Less than a year ago, we were standing on what was an empty lot. But through the Recovery Act, this company received a loan to expand its operations," Obama said at the time. "This new factory is the result of those loans."
 
2012-09-02 10:37:01 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Mrtraveler01: smitty04: Obama's investment.
[ww3.hdnux.com image 628x408]

Ah yes...Bush's pet project that he was smart enough not to invest in.

ftfy.
too bad 0bama wasn't as smart as Bush about this.


Ahem

House Republicans investigating Solyndra have claimed that the Bush administration ultimately rejected the Solyndra loan, but that's not quite the case. Democrats on the House Energy and Commerce Committee and news media point out that Bush energy officials wanted to get the loan closed on their way out the door - it was listed as the first of their "three highest priorities through January 15." (Obama took office Jan. 20, 2009.) But the Energy Department's credit committee held things up for more analysis.

"The number of issues unresolved makes a recommendation for approval premature at this time. Therefore, the committee, without prejudice, remands the project to the LGPO [Loan Guarantee Program Office] for further development of information," the committee said.

It noted Solyndra's project "appears to have merit." But the clock had run out.

That didn't keep Bush from touting the loan guarantee program on his way out of office. On Jan. 6, 2009, in remarks on conservation and the environment from the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, he said, "We dedicated more than $18 billion to developing clean and efficient technologies like biofuels, advanced batteries and hydrogen fuel cells, solar and wind power, and clean, safe nuclear power. We're providing more than $40 billion in loan guarantees to put these technologies to use."
 
2012-09-02 10:37:58 AM  

smitty04: Mrtraveler01: smitty04: Obama's investment.
[ww3.hdnux.com image 628x408]

Ah yes...Bush's pet project.

President Obama visited Solyndra in May 2010, heralding the company as "leading the way toward a brighter and more prosperous future." He also cited it as a success story from the government's $787 billion economic stimulus package.
"Less than a year ago, we were standing on what was an empty lot. But through the Recovery Act, this company received a loan to expand its operations," Obama said at the time. "This new factory is the result of those loans."


and he did that with taxpayer money and structured the deal in a way that the taxpayers got screwed.
don't forget about his Fiske and the classic cash for clunkers or the summers of recovery or the shovel ready jobs. he does not know how to create jobs or stimulate the economy.
 
2012-09-02 10:40:49 AM  
What they say: Bain's a horrible evil corporate scumweasel blight on all that is noble and good

So how is this suppose to distinguish Bain from all the other businesses run by amerikas business criminal class.
 
2012-09-02 10:42:31 AM  

Mrtraveler01: tenpoundsofcheese: Mrtraveler01: smitty04: Obama's investment.
[ww3.hdnux.com image 628x408]

Ah yes...Bush's pet project that he was smart enough not to invest in.

ftfy.
too bad 0bama wasn't as smart as Bush about this.

Ahem

"The number of issues unresolved makes a recommendation for approval premature at this time. Therefore, the committee, without prejudice, remands the project to the LGPO [Loan Guarantee Program Office] for further development of information," the committee said.

It noted Solyndra's project "appears to have merit." But the clock had run out.

"


ahem. Did Bush invest or not?
(hint: they did NOT. They said it "appears" to have merit, and wanted more information)

No different from any other investment when the company puts their best foot forward, but when due diligence gets serious, deals fall apart.


Bush isn't like 0bama who invested based on "appears" or some unicorn fantasy land.

0bama did the deeper analysis and made the decision to invest.

ahem.
 
2012-09-02 10:45:42 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Bush isn't like 0bama who invested based on "appears" or some unicorn fantasy land.


It's cute that this is the way you're spinning this fact. The only reason it didn't get funded under Bush was because they ran out of time before he could approve it.

Time to move on to the next outdated talking point I suppose.
 
2012-09-02 10:47:20 AM  
I'm sure those teachers knew exactly where their money was invested, Home Ec and PE instructors being experts in the stock market and all. Not, y'know, handed to some financial wizard who makes the actual decisions. As far as the teachers go, since they don't marinate in politics 24/7, unlike idiot NY Post columnists, as long as the money wasn't invested in Iran or NAMBLA, they're fine with whatever works.

Of course, this entire article stems out of the GOP's almost unlimited persecution complex: "Evil lib schoolteachers hate our guts for some reason we can't possibly comprehend. Something about "proud ignorance" or "hostility to history, science, and basic facts", or some such garbage. Anyway, since those evil lib teachers hate us for some unknown reason, we'll hate them back even harder! Yeah! Wharrrgarbl! Suck it, libs!"
 
2012-09-02 10:50:13 AM  
Here's the thing Republicans can't seem to wrap their heads around:

Microeconomic success isn't the same thing as macronomic experience.

Yes, Bain Capital is a successful (yet sleazy) business. Yes, Mitt Romney knows how to turn a huge profit in the corporate world. He should be proud of that. And as long as he's paying proper taxes, he should be able to keep every bit of profit he's earned.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the skills needed to run an administration. The role of the administration isn't to turn a profit - it's to spend taxpayer money as efficiently as possible without disrupting or cutting services. In the corporate world - you cut an underperforming program. In the government sector - you audit them, find inefficiencies, and figure out how they can accomplish the same task with fewer resources. You can combine or downsize things behind the scenes as long as the American public isn't affected by the reductions

HP and Dell can outsource call and data centers to India. The National Weather Service can't.
Best Buy can close shops in dying communities. USPS can't.
US Bank can move their initial job training to the internet. The US Army can't.

Corporate-minded vultures like Romney, Ryan, and many other Republicans just want to arbitrarily cut programs they deem wasteful. They're taking a corporate ownership approach to public service. And it's slowly turning us into something like the United Arab Emirates, when our goal should be more in line with Australia or the Scandinavian countries. President Obama's administration isn't perfect, but it at least understands the actual role of the federal government.
 
2012-09-02 10:52:39 AM  

devek: So... what does this have to do with Obama?


I'm guessing "Socialism!"
 
2012-09-02 10:53:15 AM  

ferretman: Dem/Libs do not understand how businesses work,


What good or service does Bain produce?
 
2012-09-02 10:53:16 AM  

MFAWG: Linux_Yes: Publically, Big Business/Wealthy speak derisively about the Government.

Privately, they're licking their lips with all those bennies they get from the Government. but its not socialism because its them, not the little people, who are getting it.

And that's the type of Republican Romney is: He just sees a big pile of money sitting there, and he wants to get his hands on it.


It also explains why there is nothing more boring than an amerikan today.

Raygun's "greed is good" message didn't just corrupt the national zeitgesist. It made americans the most predictable, one dimensional, bland and homogenized people on the planet.

We are a nation of the walking dead. We have businesses but we don't have lives. Go and consume mass quantities my fellow americans.

Youre Maslows bottom feeders.
 
2012-09-02 10:55:42 AM  

Yankees Team Gynecologist: Companies like Bain (with regulation) definitely have a place in our economy. So do strip clubs.

That doesn't mean I'd want a strip club owner running our country. Or, even if there were a guy who happened to be a strip club owner and also happened to be fit to be president, I'd laugh him off my ballot if he tried to claim that his record of training girls to get guys to buy more $20 glasses of champale somehow made him qualified to run the country.


images.businessweek.com

Ever hear of Connecticut?
 
2012-09-02 10:56:01 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Oh look, another person who learned about the rich from Scrooge McDuck cartoons.


LOL. I'm stealing that line.
 
2012-09-02 10:56:39 AM  

ferretman: That's the problem....Dem/Libs do not understand how businesses work, probably because most of them are on the Governments tit.


How do you explain Silicon Valley?

That's definitely not a hotbed for Republicans.
 
2012-09-02 10:57:33 AM  
This is the same "logical fallacy" that the political right uses regarding oil companies or consuming oil from nations that sponsor terrorism. They know that in both cases the people have no choice what fuel they buy or what the handlers of the funds in their 401K invest in. It is the current system in place that dictates the fuel and investment options available.

I don't know if conservative minds operate in such a "simple" manner or if they are being intentionally disingenuous with these "arguments". They either can't understand the concept of "changing the system" for the better or are pawns of those profiting off of the system who are more interstested in short term profit than long term viability as a nation. We want to change the system to where it is more profitable for companies like Bain to modernize a factory rather than liquidate its assets and ship the manufacturing overseas; creating alternatives for fund managers to invest in domestically. Just like with energy, we know we can't just stop buying gasoline; we want to diversify the energy industry in the U.S. so the economy isn't a slave to the volatility of the oil industry.

While great ideas for the long-term survival of the United States as a nation, there are powerful entities that are making too much money under the current system. The only thing they care about is the balance sheet for next quarter. Thanks to the "Citizens United" ruling, they are going all in trying to buy the next election to keep the profit streams open without having to adapt to a changing world.
 
2012-09-02 10:57:52 AM  

WhyteRaven74: ferretman: Dem/Libs do not understand how businesses work,

What good or service does Bain produce?


Financial services? Or do those not count?
 
2012-09-02 11:01:50 AM  
Bain Capital: Our Cock goes in, your money/job goes out.

come speak with us. let us show you how completely and without prejudice we can f*ck your asshole good.
 
2012-09-02 11:02:02 AM  
This thread is about Solyndra, yet you libs keep talking about Bain.

Thanks for the threadjack, libs.
 
2012-09-02 11:02:14 AM  
ferretman: Dem/Libs do not understand how businesses work,

Yeah they aren't economic geniuses like conseravatives

Zero Job Creation during Bush Years

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/01/AR201 0 010101196.html

IMF Declares America To Be In A Depression 2 Weeks After Bush left Office

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a6aaWZ8ab8yU

Bush Years Were The Worst Ever For The Stock Market

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870478620457460799344891 6 718.html
 
2012-09-02 11:03:17 AM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Financial services? Or do those not count?


Goldman Sachs provides financial services. Bain not in the same way. And really until pensions and such started giving Bain money you couldn't even say they provided financial services.
 
2012-09-02 11:05:57 AM  

Bob16: MFAWG: Linux_Yes: Publically, Big Business/Wealthy speak derisively about the Government.

Privately, they're licking their lips with all those bennies they get from the Government. but its not socialism because its them, not the little people, who are getting it.

And that's the type of Republican Romney is: He just sees a big pile of money sitting there, and he wants to get his hands on it.

It also explains why there is nothing more boring than an amerikan today.

Raygun's "greed is good" message didn't just corrupt the national zeitgesist. It made americans the most predictable, one dimensional, bland and homogenized people on the planet.

We are a nation of the walking dead. We have businesses but we don't have lives. Go and consume mass quantities my fellow americans.

Youre Maslows bottom feeders.



lol

the horror that has become America now (and the seeds for this were sown in the Raygun 80's) is that happiness, contentment, and meaning in our lives can be purchased at the mall.

and that you too can become wealthy one day. just keep your nose to the grindstone.

the entire american public has become brainwashed by their Owners.

the American Dream is on its way out the door for good if we don't change our ways and our value system.
 
2012-09-02 11:07:38 AM  

WhyteRaven74: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Financial services? Or do those not count?

Goldman Sachs provides financial services. Bain not in the same way. And really until pensions and such started giving Bain money you couldn't even say they provided financial services.


And until people started giving money to GS, they weren't providing financial services either.
 
2012-09-02 11:08:42 AM  

Hetfield: This thread is about Solyndra, yet you libs keep talking about Bain.

Thanks for the threadjack, libs.



well, Bain has become Rmoney's campaign bane. among other things.
 
2012-09-02 11:09:43 AM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: And until people started giving money to GS, they weren't providing financial services either.


Goldman Sachs only could exist because people gave them money to manage because that's what they do. Bain just needs sources of borrowed money to function, because it's that borrowed money they use to buy companies. Very different starting points.
 
2012-09-02 11:13:16 AM  

Bob16: IMF Declares America To Be In A Depression 2 Weeks After Bush left Office


See, libs? It took Obama just two weeks to destroy the economy forever.
 
2012-09-02 11:22:12 AM  

Linux_Yes: the horror that has become America now (and the seeds for this were sown in the Raygun 80's) is that happiness, contentment, and meaning in our lives can be purchased at the mall.


Lets ponder for a moment the great insights of the 1980's

We are living in the material world

And I am a material girl
 
2012-09-02 11:22:39 AM  

Linux_Yes: that's common knowledge. Big Business and Government sleep together every night --boffing away when the other 95% go without. where have you been? Big Business and the wealthy in this Nation get far more goodies/freebies/favors from the Government than the bottom 95% do. course, its not Socialism because The Owners are getting it.

its only Socialism when the bottom 95% get goverment 'benefits'.

without Governemnt, a sh*tload of companies in the U.S.A. would go out of business, so many are on the government tit.

aint' Freedom great!!


So why don't we let them?

Offer void where union jobs or Democratic donors are involved.
 
2012-09-02 11:24:08 AM  

jjorsett: So why don't we let them†?

† Offer void where union jobs or Democratic donors are involved.


Sorry, bud. I don't feel like living in Somalia. Maybe you do, but I prefer to not have to carry an AK everywhere. Really puts a damper on things.
 
2012-09-02 11:25:18 AM  

jjorsett: Linux_Yes: that's common knowledge. Big Business and Government sleep together every night --boffing away when the other 95% go without. where have you been? Big Business and the wealthy in this Nation get far more goodies/freebies/favors from the Government than the bottom 95% do. course, its not Socialism because The Owners are getting it.

its only Socialism when the bottom 95% get goverment 'benefits'.

without Governemnt, a sh*tload of companies in the U.S.A. would go out of business, so many are on the government tit.

aint' Freedom great!!

So why don't we let them†?

† Offer void where union jobs or Democratic donors are involved.


I wasn't aware that every supply chain job was part of a union or a Democratic Party supporter.
 
2012-09-02 11:35:49 AM  

Der Vassermeister: Yankees Team Gynecologist: Companies like Bain (with regulation) definitely have a place in our economy. So do strip clubs.

That doesn't mean I'd want a strip club owner running our country. Or, even if there were a guy who happened to be a strip club owner and also happened to be fit to be president, I'd laugh him off my ballot if he tried to claim that his record of training girls to get guys to buy more $20 glasses of champale somehow made him qualified to run the country.

[images.businessweek.com image 630x420]

Ever hear of Connecticut?


Yup and like Romney, Linda is basically incapable of acting like a human being. Seriously just watch any promo she cut on WWE TV.
 
2012-09-02 11:36:44 AM  

Bob16: IMF Declares America To Be In A Depression 2 Weeks After Bush left Office

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a6aaWZ8ab8yU


Well, yeah. After Bush left office. That makes it the Obama Depression, donchakno?
 
2012-09-02 11:37:09 AM  
jjorsett:
i39.tinypic.com
So why don't we let them†?

† Offer void where union jobs or Democratic donors are involved.

i43.tinypic.com 

These guys know something about not wanting to let companies off the government tit:

upload.wikimedia.orgupload.wikimedia.orgmedia.washingtonpost.com 

Republicans: "it doesn't count as spending if it's defense spending."
 
2012-09-02 11:52:54 AM  
Carrion capitalism. It's not a long term winner.
 
2012-09-02 12:09:46 PM  

Linux_Yes: that's common knowledge. Big Business and Government sleep together every night --boffing away when the other 95% go without. where have you been? Big Business and the wealthy in this Nation get far more goodies/freebies/favors from the Government than the bottom 95% do. course, its not Socialism because The Owners are getting it.

its only Socialism when the bottom 95% get goverment 'benefits'.

without Governemnt, a sh*tload of companies in the U.S.A. would go out of business, so many are on the government tit.

aint' Freedom great!!


Actually, you are right. The answer, of course, is even MORE government intervention, right?
 
2012-09-02 12:10:03 PM  

Cataholic: A Terrible Human: I still want to see Romney's tax returns.

Would you understand them?


Man, you guys are the farkin' epitome of "got nothin'," ain't ya?
 
2012-09-02 12:17:22 PM  

o5iiawah: Are you high? Here's how this sort of business-y thing works since you obviously havent a clue


I notice you don't know anything about Bain's actual record.
 
2012-09-02 12:21:19 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Linux_Yes: that's common knowledge. Big Business and Government sleep together every night --boffing away when the other 95% go without. where have you been? Big Business and the wealthy in this Nation get far more goodies/freebies/favors from the Government than the bottom 95% do. course, its not Socialism because The Owners are getting it.

its only Socialism when the bottom 95% get goverment 'benefits'.

without Governemnt, a sh*tload of companies in the U.S.A. would go out of business, so many are on the government tit.

aint' Freedom great!!

Actually, you are right. The answer, of course, is even MORE government intervention, right?


"intervention" is the reason we don't have bread lines and actual, real Communists agitating the poor.
 
2012-09-02 12:27:23 PM  

James F. Campbell: Cataholic: A Terrible Human: I still want to see Romney's tax returns.

Would you understand them?

Man, you guys are the farkin' epitome of "got nothin'," ain't ya?


"Got nothin'" is "I need to see his tax returns even though they won't shed any light on half the things I think are in them.". But that's OK. If they are released, the "tax experts" over at Think Progress will let you know why you should be outraged. Like with the "corporations that paid no taxes when they actually did" thing.
 
2012-09-02 12:31:46 PM  

Cataholic: "I need to see his tax returns even though they won't shed any light on half the things I think are in them."


Really? You don't think his tax returns will shed light on how much he paid in taxes?
 
2012-09-02 12:32:29 PM  

Cataholic: "Got nothin'" is "I need to see his tax returns even though they won't shed any light on half the things I think are in them.". But that's OK. If they are released, the "tax experts" over at Think Progress will let you know why you should be outraged. Like with the "corporations that paid no taxes when they actually did" thing.


Hey guess what,I'm smart enough to read a tax return. Shocking but true. Also every single farking presidential candidate has released their returns. Romney's farking father started the whole damn tradition by releasing 12 years of his in the 60's.
 
2012-09-02 12:43:35 PM  

Cataholic: James F. Campbell: Cataholic: A Terrible Human: I still want to see Romney's tax returns.

Would you understand them?

Man, you guys are the farkin' epitome of "got nothin'," ain't ya?

"Got nothin'" is "I need to see his tax returns even though they won't shed any light on half the things I think are in them.". But that's OK. If they are released, the "tax experts" over at Think Progress will let you know why you should be outraged. Like with the "corporations that paid no taxes when they actually did" thing.


/waves fingers

These are not the tax returns you're looking for.
 
2012-09-02 01:10:04 PM  

o5iiawah:
-Pension fund gives Bain $40M to invest since Bain has a good record of return
- Bain finds a struggling company that needs money/leadership
- Bain invests the pension fund money in the company in an effort to turn it around.
- Company gets turned around - Pension fund profits, Bain makes money.


What twaddle. Look at the case of GS Steel - or let me outline it for you, I'll put in a few rough numbers:

- Bain and other vultures of their ilk finds a steel mill for sale.
- Bain etc. acquires a controlling interest in the steel mill. Bain, specifically, invests $8 million.
- Bain etc. uses their control of the company to issue bonds. The money is to be used for dividends.
- Bain etc. are the major stockholders (controlling interest) and Bain specifically receives 30+ million in dividends.
- The steel mill staggers on, but at the first sign of crisis in the industry, cannot service the debt and shuts its doors.

Bain's income didn't come from inspired leadership of a steel mill, it came from the fact that the debt was in GS Steel's name, while the dividends went to the stockholders. Now, Bain would undoubtedly have preferred the steel mill to run on, but their investment was recouped, with a robust profit, in the first year. So - spare us the "risk" BS.
 
2012-09-02 01:21:32 PM  

2wolves: Carrion capitalism. It's not a long term winner.


True, but with the way we get raped by bag fees, do we have any other options?
 
2012-09-02 02:56:37 PM  

Fart_Machine: And so? The selling point of Romney with Bain was that they "saved companies and created jobs". It doesn't change the fact that this narrative is a lie and that was never the intention of Bain's business model.


Yeah, but saying they're Public Enemy #1 while your organization is reaping MILLIONS in financial benefits because of what they do...that's just disingenuous
 
2012-09-02 03:02:21 PM  
So the point of the article is that the ends justify the means, and that investors have no clue what's going on at investment firms.
 
2012-09-02 03:13:58 PM  

WhyteRaven74: ferretman: Dem/Libs do not understand how businesses work,

What good or service does Bain produce?


Does "unemployed Americans" count as a good or service?
 
2012-09-02 03:22:29 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Linux_Yes: that's common knowledge. Big Business and Government sleep together every night --boffing away when the other 95% go without. where have you been? Big Business and the wealthy in this Nation get far more goodies/freebies/favors from the Government than the bottom 95% do. course, its not Socialism because The Owners are getting it.

its only Socialism when the bottom 95% get goverment 'benefits'.

without Governemnt, a sh*tload of companies in the U.S.A. would go out of business, so many are on the government tit.

aint' Freedom great!!

Actually, you are right. The answer, of course, is even MORE government intervention, right?

"intervention" is the reason we don't have bread lines and actual, real Communists agitating the poor.


This. If the Randians ever got their way, it would be the surest signal that a Communist revolution is imminent.

Bismarck didn't enact all those social reforms in Germany because he was a leftist.
 
2012-09-02 03:35:44 PM  
25.media.tumblr.com

First one? Really? Fark, I am disappoint.
 
2012-09-02 03:47:36 PM  

muck1969: So the point of the article is that the ends justify the means, and that investors have no clue what's going on at investment firms.


It's a brilliantly thought-out concept, isn't it? The investor doesn't really know, the investment firm is responsible only for looking after the investors' interests, the board only focus on the stockholders, and the CEO of course responds to the board and no-one else. And so companies can implement every horrific practice you can think of, yet nobody has to feel any actual responsibility or, heaven forbid, guilt.

And if you suggest that perhaps a bit of public oversight could put a damper on the most piratical schemes, why, then you're a Marxist-commie-liberal who just wants to keep the job creators down.
 
2012-09-02 06:51:49 PM  
So the goons at the New York Compost are going "Hey! I wanna lie my ass off too!".
 
2012-09-02 08:59:46 PM  
Sorry did I miss where someone said Bain didnt make money?
 
2012-09-02 10:16:08 PM  

TheEdibleSnuggie: Fart_Machine: And so? The selling point of Romney with Bain was that they "saved companies and created jobs". It doesn't change the fact that this narrative is a lie and that was never the intention of Bain's business model.

Yeah, but saying they're Public Enemy #1 while your organization is reaping MILLIONS in financial benefits because of what they do...that's just disingenuous


Or it just shows that people have no clue as to what they have in their retirement portfolio.
 
2012-09-02 10:31:00 PM  

Fart_Machine: Or it just shows that people have no clue as to what they have in their retirement portfolio


Generally, you're just dumping it into managed funds. Hell, I have no idea where much of my money actually is invested.
 
2012-09-02 11:13:51 PM  

Erik_Emune: Bain and other vultures of their ilk finds a steel mill for sale.


So what you're saying is that Bain legally acquires a company and does with it what they please? I'm trying to be outraged here but you've gotta help me out....

Companies are usually for sale when they arent doing well. Nobody rings up a venture capital firm if they money is pouring in...
 
2012-09-02 11:53:23 PM  
I'm not opposed to companies like Bain existing. I'm opposed to the stockholder(s) using that front to evade taxes.
 
2012-09-03 12:02:42 AM  

o5iiawah: Companies are usually for sale when they arent doing well. Nobody rings up a venture capital firm if they money is pouring in...


/facepalm

Do you understand the difference between a venture capital investment and private equity? Do you know what a leveraged buyout is?
 
2012-09-03 01:04:27 AM  
Well, sure, if you're an investor that avoids looking at how a business makes it's money, then vulture capitalists are pretty freaking awesome.
 
2012-09-03 02:12:46 AM  

o5iiawah: Companies are usually for sale when they arent doing well. Nobody rings up a venture capital firm if they money is pouring in..


Good grief, you're stupid.

Here's how Bain did it: They told the company's management that if they did not resist the takeover, there would be large executive compensation for them. They put in a small amount of their own money, borrowed many times as much, bought a controlling interest with the money, saddled the company with a huge amount of debt, stripped assets, and let someone else take the loss when the company was unable to service the debt. In one well-documented instance, the taxpayers took the loss for Bain and Romney.

Perfectly legal, and one of the reasons America is no longer a country that actually makes things, earns wealth, and raises the living standards of all Americans. It's despicable, and people like you, who condone this destruction, are also despicable.
 
2012-09-03 08:48:32 AM  

Fart_Machine: o5iiawah: Companies are usually for sale when they arent doing well. Nobody rings up a venture capital firm if they money is pouring in...

/facepalm

Do you understand the difference between a venture capital investment and private equity? Do you know what a leveraged buyout is?


Of course he doesn't.

Guys like o5iiawah can vote, people. Just let that sink in.
 
2012-09-03 09:23:05 AM  
while i confess i have not read the entire thread verbatim since theres a lot of partisan whargarrrbl in it, id like to scold the farkers in this thread for not commenting on subby's masterful Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy reference in his slash her headline.

The Sirius Cybernetics Corporation is "a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes." An edition of the Encyclopaedia Galactica that had the good fortune to fall through a time warp from a thousand years in the future defined the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation as "a bunch of mindless jerks who were the first against the wall when the revolution came."
 
2012-09-03 12:06:00 PM  

knobmaker: Here's how Bain did it: They told the company's management that if they did not resist the takeover, there would be large executive compensation for them. They put in a small amount of their own money, borrowed many times as much, bought a controlling interest with the money, saddled the company with a huge amount of debt, stripped assets


You're so full of it it is astounding.

There's no reason to "strip a company of its assets" if it is possible to make it profitable. There's more money to be made in using assets to make stuff than simply selling them for pennies on the dollar.

Yankees Team Gynecologist: Of course he doesn't.

Guys like o5iiawah can vote, people. Just let that sink in.


And so can people like you who get the bulk of their political and financial knowledge from the editorial pages of Mother Jones. Was Dunkin Donuts liquidated? Was Staples? Was Sports authority? The attacks on Bain are simply butthurt from people who tried to go to their company's trough one too many times and found that Bain had removed it.

You figure that banks would stop lending to Bain the second time they decided to take out massive loans against the assets of a company, sell the assets and stiff the bank with the loan from a company that exists only on paper. Banks are more likely to lend to Bain and the companies they take over in the interest of making the company profitable.

Maybe you're just stupid and dont realize how wrong you are or you're so outraged over the fact that there's a market in this country for venture capital that you dont even know what they do. I'm not sure which is sadder.
 
2012-09-03 01:05:28 PM  

o5iiawah: There's no reason to "strip a company of its assets" if it is possible to make it profitable. There's more money to be made in using assets to make stuff than simply selling them for pennies on the dollar.


Of course there is. A company like Bain is in it for the fast buck, not the slow, laborious one. There are 2 ways to recoup your investment and make a tidy profit within 12 months or so:

- Max out the company's credit card and issue colossal dividends (that was GST Steel - you can look it up, you know.)
- Sell everything that isn't nailed down and issue colossal dividends.

The third one take a little longer, and that that's the time-honored "cut everything to the bone, then sell the gutted company while it still has a full order book and before the hollow shell collapses".

And if, against all odds, the host organism survives the first bloodletting? Well, so much the better. Every good parasite knows it doesn't do to kill all the host organisms.

If GST Steel had muddled through with its extra debt burden, well, that would have been preferable, but it clearly wasn't a matter of much concern to Bain. After all, they grabbed $30 million out of the tiller the first year - money, to recap, that GST steel had gotten by issuing bonds.

Dunkin' Donuts is interesting - Bain realized that the buying public can't tell junk food from garbage and so took over a chain known for making good donuts, used their brand to market mass-produced donuts and in the process - well, obviously - eradicated a bunch of decent jobs for McService positions.

They're not there to keep the big machine of capitalism running. They're there to steal the grease out of its bearings.
 
2012-09-03 01:48:08 PM  

o5iiawah: There's no reason


o5iiawah: You figure


This is your brain trying to "reason," and your brain trying to "figure."

These conclusions mean nothing compared to what actually happened.
 
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