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(Haaretz)   In what is sure to become a classic sitcom, Jewish Settlers and Palestinians in West Bank forced to share a house   (haaretz.com) divider line 123
    More: Unlikely, Palestinians, settlements, East Jerusalem, West Bank  
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1339 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Sep 2012 at 12:03 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-02 06:48:33 PM

StoneColdAtheist: You, me and a sizable majority of both Palestinians and Israelis favor a two-state solution. That isn't going to happen, though, until the Palestinians renounce violence against Israel, irrevocably recognize Israel's right to exist within safe and secure borders, and agree to a negotiated border. Until those conditions are met Israel will continue to play hardball. That's just the way it is.


Israel has invaded and stolen their homes, backed by the biggest military force in the area, and Palestinians are the ones who must renounce violence first? Would you have also told the Jews in camps to stop resisting the Nazis so we could negotiate properly with the Nazis?
 
2012-09-02 06:49:40 PM

StoneColdAtheist: You, me and a sizable majority of both Palestinians and Israelis favor a two-state solution. That isn't going to happen, though, until the Palestinians renounce violence against Israel, irrevocably recognize Israel's right to exist within safe and secure borders, and agree to a negotiated border. Until those conditions are met Israel will continue to play hardball. That's just the way it is.


"...But there is one inescapable fact that makes it difficult to absolve Israel of any responsibility for the current situation: all the lands that would make up the Palestinian State are under Israel's control. It is therefore only Israel that prevents the formation of Palestine, placing conditions (reasonable or not) on Palestinian behavior and an ever-shrinking amount of land, which started out as insufficient in the eyes of even moderate Palestinians. To be sure, the deal gets worse the longer the Palestinians wait to agree to it. Part of me suggests the Palestinians take the best deal they can get now and cut and run before all they're left with are the equivalent of Indian reservations. Better to stop the hemorrhaging and protest after you have been made a state than to be left with nothing.

Obviously, those Palestinians unwilling to refrain from violence make such a state all but impossible to implement. But by settling the West Bank, Israel is getting rid of the one asset that they themselves considered critical to permanent peace: the very land they wish to trade for peace they are making impossible to trade away.

Eventually, Israel will be almost wholly responsible for its own lack of security. With nothing to give back to the Arabs to barter for peace, what can they expect if not more violence?"
 
2012-09-02 07:55:14 PM

GAT_00: Israel has invaded and stolen their homes, backed by the biggest military force in the area, and Palestinians are the ones who must renounce violence first?


Yep...you got it. Look, this isn't some kindergarten game where adults try to get belligerent children to learn to share. This is the realpolitik of bilateral Israeli-Palestinian relations. Israel is operating from a position of strength, so the longer the Palestinians refuse to come to terms the more expensive it will be.

vygramul: Obviously, those Palestinians unwilling to refrain from violence make such a state all but impossible to implement.


Yep, absolutely. See my remarks just above.

But by settling the West Bank, Israel is getting rid of the one asset that they themselves considered critical to permanent peace: the very land they wish to trade for peace they are making impossible to trade away.

Nonsense. Israel can and will do whatever it takes wrt settlements when the time comes. Just look at what they did with the 18 Sinai settlements and the 21 Gaza settlements.

Eventually, Israel will be almost wholly responsible for its own lack of security. With nothing to give back to the Arabs to barter for peace, what can they expect if not more violence?"

Wrong. In the end Israel will still exist and will be a strong and secure country She already has had 40 years of peace with her sovereign neighbors (with a few minor exceptions re Syria). Only the Palestinians and the Iranian/Hezbollah crackpots have yet to make a permanent peace with Israel. Time, money, land, politics...everything is on Israel's side in this.
 
2012-09-02 08:08:38 PM

StoneColdAtheist: Yep...you got it. Look, this isn't some kindergarten game where adults try to get belligerent children to learn to share. This is the realpolitik of bilateral Israeli-Palestinian relations. Israel is operating from a position of strength, so the longer the Palestinians refuse to come to terms the more expensive it will be.


And how does that force Israel to negotiate?
 
2012-09-02 08:51:04 PM

wendolynne: a little singing, a little dancing, a lot of hummus


That might be the greatest thing I've ever seen.
/Really
//Ever
 
2012-09-02 09:12:13 PM
Even if the Israeli's "purchased" the land, which I doubt, the purchase was illegal any any ethical measure. Israeli settlers are sociopolitical trolls who exist for no other reason but to stir up violent reprisals. Fark 'em.
 
2012-09-02 09:15:09 PM

GAT_00: StoneColdAtheist: Yep...you got it. Look, this isn't some kindergarten game where adults try to get belligerent children to learn to share. This is the realpolitik of bilateral Israeli-Palestinian relations. Israel is operating from a position of strength, so the longer the Palestinians refuse to come to terms the more expensive it will be.

And how does that force Israel to negotiate?


Yeah, someone should post some photos of this "realpolitik". You know, dead civilians and so forth.
 
2012-09-02 09:22:02 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: GAT_00: StoneColdAtheist: Yep...you got it. Look, this isn't some kindergarten game where adults try to get belligerent children to learn to share. This is the realpolitik of bilateral Israeli-Palestinian relations. Israel is operating from a position of strength, so the longer the Palestinians refuse to come to terms the more expensive it will be.

And how does that force Israel to negotiate?

Yeah, someone should post some photos of this "realpolitik". You know, dead civilians and so forth.


You notice he disappeared instead of answering that question, because he knows that demanding the Palestinians surrender won't change anything. It will only amplify Israeli occupation.
 
2012-09-02 09:24:00 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Even if the Israeli's "purchased" the land, which I doubt, the purchase was illegal any any ethical measure. Israeli settlers are sociopolitical trolls who exist for no other reason but to stir up violent reprisals. Fark 'em.


Care to explain why any purchase of land by people who are now Israeli is illegal?
 
2012-09-02 09:26:37 PM

GAT_00: StoneColdAtheist: Yep...you got it. Look, this isn't some kindergarten game where adults try to get belligerent children to learn to share. This is the realpolitik of bilateral Israeli-Palestinian relations. Israel is operating from a position of strength, so the longer the Palestinians refuse to come to terms the more expensive it will be.

And how does that force Israel to negotiate?


You can't be THAT naive, GAT. Israel will negotiate because her citizens want to live a normal life within safe and secure borders. When the conditions are right Israel will do whatever it needs to do to nail down the deal, but don't expect Israel to give back 100% of the WB. Too bad Arafat wouldn't take yes for an answer when Israel made the offer, but it's not gonna happen now. The Palestinians will be lucky if the price of peace is only 10%.

In the meantime Israel keeps the pressure on by turning a blind eye to settlers adding houses and families, but it's all just maneuvering. Don't forget 2005 when the Israeli gov't told the settlers in Gaza to pack their shiat and head over the border, 'cuz the bulldozers arrive at oh-six-hundred tomorrow morning.
 
2012-09-02 09:29:33 PM

GAT_00: You notice he disappeared instead of answering that question, because he knows that demanding the Palestinians surrender won't change anything. It will only amplify Israeli occupation.


LOL...wut? Fyi, I was closing down the shop and driving home. Leaving for another 2-3 hours shortly.
 
2012-09-02 09:41:56 PM

StoneColdAtheist: Israel will negotiate because her citizens want to live a normal life within safe and secure borders.


Then why don't they negotiate now? Without Palestinian action, they have no reason to go to the table, none. If they want the attacks to stop, why don't they offer something real, and withdraw from the territories they have illegally occupied?

The actual answer is that Israel cares nothing for peace. As long as the attacks continue, they have the excuse to occupy as they want. If the attacks stop, they'll simply say they are occupying all of the Territories to keep new attacks from starting.

Israel has no interest, NONE, in letting the Palestinians have a home.
 
2012-09-02 09:58:43 PM

crab66: [i.imgur.com image 800x522]


succinct
 
2012-09-02 10:47:15 PM

GAT_00: StoneColdAtheist: Israel will negotiate because her citizens want to live a normal life within safe and secure borders.

Then why don't they negotiate now? Without Palestinian action, they have no reason to go to the table, none. If they want the attacks to stop, why don't they offer something real, and withdraw from the territories they have illegally occupied?

The actual answer is that Israel cares nothing for peace. As long as the attacks continue, they have the excuse to occupy as they want. If the attacks stop, they'll simply say they are occupying all of the Territories to keep new attacks from starting.

Israel has no interest, NONE, in letting the Palestinians have a home.


Because they're America's little biatch?
 
2012-09-02 10:52:28 PM

Salt Lick Steady: Because they're America's little biatch?


It seems to be the other way around. Think of how often American politicians accede to any Israeli demand and how often Israeli politicians accede to American demands.
 
2012-09-02 10:57:42 PM

StoneColdAtheist: You can't be THAT naive, GAT. Israel will negotiate because her citizens want to live a normal life


Why do people try to justify the existence of something based on sex/gender? Israel is a woman? A normal life is... what?

GAT is a douche of epic proportions who keeps up page hits.
 
2012-09-03 12:11:25 AM
TappingTheVein
Well there is the arab law which sentenced to death any arab who sells land to a jew. No racism there, no sir.
The law predates the Palestinian Authority but they wholeheartedly officially adopted it. To make it clear the the Al-Aqsa Mufti himself, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (Ikremah Sabri) even declared a Fatwa banning the sale of arab and muslim property to Jews.


And they're in such a powerful position to enforce it, thereby causing massive hardship to Israelis in homes where they've lived for decades. Right? I mean, they must be, since you're implying that the two cases are equivalent.


StoneColdAtheist
You, me and a sizable majority of both Palestinians and Israelis favor a two-state solution. That isn't going to happen, though, until the Palestinians renounce violence against Israel, irrevocably recognize Israel's right to exist within safe and secure borders, and agree to a negotiated border. Until those conditions are met Israel will continue to play hardball. That's just the way it is.

Why do the Palestinians make the Israelis keep hitting them??

Israel is operating from a position of strength, so the longer the Palestinians refuse to come to terms the more expensive it will be.

IOW Israel is the aggressor and the actions of its government constitute war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Not that that really matters, since no one is willing or able to stand up to them.
 
2012-09-03 01:31:24 AM
desertpeace.files.wordpress.com

Terrorism is alive an well in some places. And perfectly acceptable.
 
2012-09-03 01:36:31 AM
Bevets must be summoned!  

i172.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-03 01:59:18 AM

AnEvilGuest: valar_morghulis: Come and kick in our door...

We've been hating for you ...


I choked on a bbq pork rib while reading this.
 
2012-09-03 02:17:21 AM

liam76: GAT_00: So, these guys make up a proof of purchase, ignore who is living there, sell it to someone else, who then sues and wins access to someone else's house?

No wonder Palestinians attack Israelis. As best as I can tell, the entire legal system of Israel systemically abuses Palestinians for no other reason than because they aren't Jewish. It's no wonder they hate Israelis, hell the only shocking thing here is that every Palestinian doesn't go around shooting Israelis on sight. The Israelis learned too well how to abuse and torture another people, and now they are doing it to Palestinians.

If those Israeli settlers were murdered, there isn't a fair court in the world that wouldn't call it justified. A fair court that is, not an Israeli one. There are no fair courts in Israel.

I am sure you have solid evidence they "made it up" and it was just an oversight on your part that you didn't link to it and not that you have no idea what you are talking about.


Considering Israel awards medals to terrorists, everything they say is suspect.

/Lehi, look it up.
 
2012-09-03 02:22:35 AM

GAT_00: StoneColdAtheist: Israel will negotiate because her citizens want to live a normal life within safe and secure borders.

Then why don't they negotiate now? Without Palestinian action, they have no reason to go to the table, none. If they want the attacks to stop, why don't they offer something real, and withdraw from the territories they have illegally occupied?

The actual answer is that Israel cares nothing for peace. As long as the attacks continue, they have the excuse to occupy as they want. If the attacks stop, they'll simply say they are occupying all of the Territories to keep new attacks from starting.

Israel has no interest, NONE, in letting the Palestinians have a home.


If that were true, the Palestinians wouldn't have anything at all. If Israel was so entirely in the wrong on everything and always the brutal aggressor, as so many people for whatever reason believe, Palestinians would not exist. You can take your side, and I respect that. But it would be impossible for two groups of people to perpetuate something this long if it wasn't actually two sided. Peace won't come until they make each other extinct, or someone comes and kicks the knees out of both sides and makes them stop acting like children.
 
2012-09-03 02:33:13 AM
violentsalvation
If that were true, the Palestinians wouldn't have anything at all. If Israel was so entirely in the wrong on everything and always the brutal aggressor, as so many people for whatever reason believe, Palestinians would not exist.

You eliminate the possibility that that is in process. Why do it all at once, so blatantly that reaction would be demanded, when it's easier at the margin to trade land for peace in our time?

it would be impossible for two groups of people to perpetuate something this long if it wasn't actually two sided.

Zionists want to exterminate the Palestinians and take the land. Palestinians want to not be exterminated and stay in their homes. Two sides, exactly equal in every respect... right...
 
2012-09-03 02:34:35 AM

violentsalvation: Peace won't come until ...someone comes and kicks the knees out of both sides and makes them stop acting like children.


Do you think it is possible?
 
2012-09-03 02:39:13 AM
StoneColdAtheist:
Wrong. In the end Israel will still exist and will be a strong and secure country She already has had 40 years of peace with her sovereign neighbors (with a few minor exceptions re Syria). Only the Palestinians and the Iranian/Hezbollah crackpots have yet to make a permanent peace with Israel. Time, money, land, politics...everything is on Israel's side in this.

There was another country which was militarily very strong, bullied its neighbors into recognizing it and had an ethnic-based identity and legal system. It was called Apartheid South Africa. Guess what happened to it.
 
2012-09-03 02:51:01 AM

StoneColdAtheist: This doesn't obviate the fact that GAT_00's claim that Palestinians cannot get a fair trial in Israel is flat wrong. They can and they do.


Oh yes. 45 days in jail for killing a Palestinian mother and her daughter. Killing a dog in Israel gets you a 5 year sentence.
 
2012-09-03 02:54:55 AM

StoneColdAtheist: This doesn't obviate the fact that GAT_00's claim that Palestinians cannot get a fair trial in Israel is flat wrong. They can and they do.


Yes, they can and they do. AFAIK Palestinians often win in the courts. The problem is that those victories rarely translate to real world results. They're rarely enforced. If ever. Worthless paper victories, that's all.
 
2012-09-03 02:59:04 AM

StoneColdAtheist: You, me and a sizable majority of both Palestinians and Israelis favor a two-state solution. That isn't going to happen, though,


...because Israel has gobbled up so much of what would have been "Palestine" that the two-state solution is stone dead. Only the one-state solution remains.
 
2012-09-03 03:01:18 AM

Frederick: violentsalvation: Peace won't come until ...someone comes and kicks the knees out of both sides and makes them stop acting like children.

Do you think it is possible?


Someone stepping in and forcefully asking them to grow up, without starting WWIII? No, I don't see it happening.

RanDomino: Zionists want to exterminate the Palestinians and take the land. Palestinians want to not be exterminated and stay in their homes. Two sides, exactly equal in every respect... right...


So you only see the extreme on one side. That's nice.
 
2012-09-03 03:02:22 AM

mr_a: It would make a good reality show...especially when they realized that 90% of the things they believe in, and most of their "culture" are just about identical.


Relevant. (1:40ish for the song, if you're in a hurry)
 
2012-09-03 03:35:43 AM

vernonFL: Israelis don't see the issue with confiscating people's property, dehumanizing them and forcing them to live in walled off ghettos?


They've been doing it for decades. Chances are, no.
 
2012-09-03 03:38:53 AM

clambam: So if you want to say the truth: "Traditionally Jews have not been allowed to have their own country, Palestine most recently was under Muslim rule via the Ottoman Empire so it's really Arab land and Arabs never voluntarily give up land [they're still kvetching about losing Spain, fer cryin out loud], plus we outnumber you 60-to-1 so give us back our land or we'll kill you," that I could understand. But spare me the "Oh the poow widdle Pawestinians, just twyin to herd their goats in peace when the big bad Iswaewis came awong and stowe theiw wand." It's a pack of lies, it's a crock of shiat, and the willingness of Westerners to go along with it merely underscores the anti-semitic strains which are still prevalent in the West and the importance of having a place of refuge, like Israel, for the Jews.


In the aftermath of WWII, Russia offered the Jews their own oblast with regional autonomy.

They decided to start occupying and "settling" Israel instead.
 
2012-09-03 04:27:46 AM

RanDomino: And they're in such a powerful position to enforce it


You really, really have no clue what the hell your'e talking about. The PA has every power to do whatever the hell they want with their private property regarding their own official law.
Just google it, this is embarrassing.

RanDomino: since you're implying that the two cases are equivalent


Nope, i was pointing out some good old fashioned arab racism, anti-semitism and hypocrisy.
 
2012-09-03 04:48:19 AM

starsrift: clambam: So if you want to say the truth: "Traditionally Jews have not been allowed to have their own country, Palestine most recently was under Muslim rule via the Ottoman Empire so it's really Arab land and Arabs never voluntarily give up land [they're still kvetching about losing Spain, fer cryin out loud], plus we outnumber you 60-to-1 so give us back our land or we'll kill you," that I could understand. But spare me the "Oh the poow widdle Pawestinians, just twyin to herd their goats in peace when the big bad Iswaewis came awong and stowe theiw wand." It's a pack of lies, it's a crock of shiat, and the willingness of Westerners to go along with it merely underscores the anti-semitic strains which are still prevalent in the West and the importance of having a place of refuge, like Israel, for the Jews.

In the aftermath of WWII, Russia offered the Jews their own oblast with regional autonomy.

They decided to start occupying and "settling" Israel instead.


To be fair (and I'm by no means a fan of the Israeli government. OR the Palestinian government, for that matter), I wouldn't exactly trust post-WWII Russia.
 
2012-09-03 05:30:51 AM

starsrift: They decided to start occupying and "settling" Israel instead.


Not only did jews live in the region pre-WWII, they started buying land to settle there in large numbers in the 19th century.
In other words: BS.
 
2012-09-03 05:43:59 AM

TappingTheVein: Not only did jews live in the region pre-WWII, they started buying land to settle there in large numbers in the 19th century.


Nope. Zionism was a fringe ideology in the 1800s. The early aliyahs were russian jews fleeing pogroms, and there weren't very many of them. The jewish population even decreased in the first decade after WWI. The large numbers didn't appear until some guy named "Adolf" rose to power in Germany. Modern Israel would never existed without him.
 
2012-09-03 06:44:08 AM

LordJiro: To be fair (and I'm by no means a fan of the Israeli government. OR the Palestinian government, for that matter), I wouldn't exactly trust post-WWII Russia.


An interesting point, which is kind of interesting to think about on its own, wondering how that would've changed and affected everything.
 
2012-09-03 07:09:29 AM

RanDomino: violentsalvation
If that were true, the Palestinians wouldn't have anything at all. If Israel was so entirely in the wrong on everything and always the brutal aggressor, as so many people for whatever reason believe, Palestinians would not exist.

You eliminate the possibility that that is in process. Why do it all at once, so blatantly that reaction would be demanded, when it's easier at the margin to trade land for peace in our time?

it would be impossible for two groups of people to perpetuate something this long if it wasn't actually two sided.

Zionists want to exterminate the Palestinians and take the land. Palestinians want to not be exterminated and stay in their homes. Two sides, exactly equal in every respect... right...


Last time I checked it was Palestinians who elected a party that wanted to remove all the Jews from the area, while in Israel the party that proposed that got some five percent of the vote.

But I am sure you will come up with some BS reason why Palestinians electing a group like that doesn't mean that is their goal and Israelis overwhelmingly voting against a group like that means that is their goal.
 
2012-09-03 07:32:12 AM

Frederick: crab66: [i.imgur.com image 800x522]

succinct


How long has Israel had a nuke and not used it?

Have they ever threatened wipe a country out?

Ever seen an Israeli rally where they chanted death to a regional country?
 
2012-09-03 07:34:48 AM

Uncle Tractor: Nope. Zionism was a fringe ideology in the 1800s. The early aliyahs were russian jews fleeing pogroms, and there weren't very many of them. The jewish population even decreased in the first decade after WWI. The large numbers didn't appear until some guy named "Adolf" rose to power in Germany. Modern Israel would never existed without him.


It wasn't a fringe ideology in the 19th century with the creation of the World Zionist Organization and jews did live in the region pre-WWII and they did settle there in large numbers in the 19th century contradicting the BS of starsrift. Read what he said carefully.

Uncle Tractor: The large numbers didn't appear until some guy named "Adolf" rose to power in Germany. Modern Israel would never existed without him


In it's current form ? sure but since antisemitism kinda predates herr Adolf and zionism predates him as well it's safe to assume Israel would exist in some form or another.
 
2012-09-03 07:34:55 AM

liam76: RanDomino: violentsalvation
If that were true, the Palestinians wouldn't have anything at all. If Israel was so entirely in the wrong on everything and always the brutal aggressor, as so many people for whatever reason believe, Palestinians would not exist.

You eliminate the possibility that that is in process. Why do it all at once, so blatantly that reaction would be demanded, when it's easier at the margin to trade land for peace in our time?

it would be impossible for two groups of people to perpetuate something this long if it wasn't actually two sided.

Zionists want to exterminate the Palestinians and take the land. Palestinians want to not be exterminated and stay in their homes. Two sides, exactly equal in every respect... right...

Last time I checked it was Palestinians who elected a party that wanted to remove all the Jews from the area, while in Israel the party that proposed that got some five percent of the vote.

But I am sure you will come up with some BS reason why Palestinians electing a group like that doesn't mean that is their goal and Israelis overwhelmingly voting against a group like that means that is their goal.


Maybe the Palestinians wouldn't elect extremists if the Israeli government stopped with the disproportionate retribution. What's the Palestinian death to Israeli death ratio again?

/Of course, the Palestinians shouldn't have elected extremists anyway, because that simply makes things worse. SOMEONE needs to back off the assholishness first, and unfortunately, neither side seems so inclined.
 
2012-09-03 07:40:29 AM

liam76: Frederick: crab66: [i.imgur.com image 800x522]

succinct

How long has Israel had a nuke and not used it?

Have they ever threatened wipe a country out?

Ever seen an Israeli rally where they chanted death to a regional country?


How many Israeli scientists have been murdered by Iran?
And how many decades has Iran been "ALMOST READY TO MAKE A NUKE!"?

Incidentally, the current government in Iran wouldn't be, y'know, the current government in Iran if we hadn't stuck our dick in Middle Eastern politics in the past. Just food for thought.
 
2012-09-03 09:27:35 AM
TappingTheVein:It wasn't a fringe ideology in the 19th century with the creation of the World Zionist Organization

Slapping the word "world" on their name doesn't make them mainstream. The pre-Hitler aliyahs were small migrations of russian jews sick of the tsarist pogroms. Hitler made zionism mainstream.

and jews did live in the region pre-WWII and they did settle there in large numbers in the 19th century

The demographics say otherwise.

Modern Israel would never existed without him
In it's current form ?


In any form. Zionism was running out of what little steam it had before he appeared on the scene.

sure but since antisemitism kinda predates herr Adolf and zionism predates him as well it's safe to assume Israel would exist in some form or another.

The reason zionism was running out of steam was that christianity, which historically was the main driving force behind antisemitism, was also running out of steam. No Hitler, no Israel. Not in it's current form, nor in any other form. There wouldn't have been a need for an Israel without Hitler.
 
2012-09-03 10:02:59 AM
violentsalvation
So you only see the extreme on one side. That's nice.

Palestinian terrorism matters about as much as ETA terrorism. Let me know when they have an effect that's not just Israel making a mountain out of a molehill. Yes, yes, you can complain about those oh-so-terrifying rockets that kill someone every couple of months and are a slight annoyance to the rest (ehrmagerd, we have to go to the bomb shelter for FIFTEEN WHOLE MINUTES! SOMETIMES!), but there's no comparing that to the daily misery of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. I mean look at the shiat in this article. These people should consider themselves lucky- usually the house is just flattened.


TappingTheVein
You really, really have no clue what the hell your'e talking about. The PA has every power to do whatever the hell they want with their private property regarding their own official law.

Please. They have that power until Israel decides they don't.
 
2012-09-03 10:24:30 AM

Uncle Tractor: Slapping the word "world" on their name doesn't make them mainstream. The pre-Hitler aliyahs were small migrations of russian jews sick of the tsarist pogroms. Hitler made zionism mainstream.


Persecution of jews is not a nazi invention. There were hundreds of thousands of jews in Israel before WWII.
No doubt the Holocaust increased the immigration to Israel but they were there to begin with. Zionism was not the goal of every European jew but it was not a fringe movement either predating WWII.

Uncle Tractor: The demographics say otherwise.


Not compared to the numbers predating the alliyas and the numbers in the region in general.

Uncle Tractor: In any form. Zionism was running out of what little steam it had before he appeared on the scene.


So the hundreds of thousands of jews there predating WWII and all the history invloved (like the Balfour Declaration) is of no consequence. Got it.

Uncle Tractor: The reason zionism was running out of steam was that christianity, which historically was the main driving force behind antisemitism, was also running out of steam


The jews fleeing arab/muslim countries in the 19th and the early 20th century across the Middle East and North Africa would like to have a word with you.

Uncle Tractor: No Hitler, no Israel. Not in it's current form, nor in any other form. There wouldn't have been a need for an Israel without Hitler.


In your esteemed opinion. I disagree.
 
2012-09-03 10:26:33 AM

RanDomino: Please. They have that power until Israel decides they don't.


How can you be this dense ? the law is enforced by palestinians regarding palestinians in the PA. Israel has absolutely nothing to do with this. It's obvious you have no clue about this.
 
2012-09-03 01:11:53 PM

RanDomino: violentsalvation
So you only see the extreme on one side. That's nice.

Palestinian terrorism matters about as much as ETA terrorism. Let me know when they have an effect that's not just Israel making a mountain out of a molehill. Yes, yes, you can complain about those oh-so-terrifying rockets that kill someone every couple of months and are a slight annoyance to the rest (ehrmagerd, we have to go to the bomb shelter for FIFTEEN WHOLE MINUTES! SOMETIMES!), but there's no comparing that to the daily misery of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. I mean look at the shiat in this article. These people should consider themselves lucky- usually the house is just flattened.



ETA killed 340 civilians since 1968. Palestinians killed more civilians than that with rockets alone in 2007.

That is some very interesting calculus for how much they matter. They killed far less in sheer number and even less in proportion to the size of the population the terrorist attacks are against. Only reason I can thnk of you to justify that is to think that a jewish life is worth less then a french or Spanish one.

You also, as normal, appear to be blindingly ignorant of the situation to make that comparison. For it to be valid France and Spain would have to be surrounded by countries that were sympathetic to ETA.


LordJiro: Maybe the Palestinians wouldn't elect extremists if the Israeli government stopped with the disproportionate retribution. What's the Palestinian death to Israeli death ratio again?


So because Israel cares more about their civilians than Palestine, they are the bad guys?

LordJiro: SOMEONE needs to back off the assholishness first, and unfortunately, neither side seems so inclined


Someone tried that. Israel pulled out of Gaza, and in turn for extending that olive branch they were given showers of rockets.
 
2012-09-03 01:40:08 PM
TappingTheVein
How can you be this dense ? the law is enforced by palestinians regarding palestinians in the PA. Israel has absolutely nothing to do with this. It's obvious you have no clue about this.

There must be so much suffering as a result of this law. I'm sure it's awful.

If it was really a problem, Israel would find a way to get rid of it. Because they have ALL THE farkING POWER.
 
2012-09-03 01:59:57 PM

RanDomino: If it was really a problem, Israel would find a way to get rid of it. Because they have ALL THE farkING POWER.


No they won't because THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ISRAEL. This is an arab law of old adopted by the palestinian authority, enforced by the palestinian authority regarding private palestinian property, they 'have all the farking power'. How hard is it to understand ? the drive to blame Israel for everything is causing some IQ leakage.
 
2012-09-03 05:21:43 PM
TappingTheVein
No they won't because THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ISRAEL. This is an arab law of old adopted by the palestinian authority, enforced by the palestinian authority regarding private palestinian property, they 'have all the farking power'. How hard is it to understand ? the drive to blame Israel for everything is causing some IQ leakage.

So you're saying that if Israel really thought it was a problem, they wouldn't be able to do anything about it, yeah?
 
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