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(Cleveland Plain Dealer)   It's got to be pretty embarrassing when you're a hot shot in the Army's elite Golden Knights parachute squad and you need to be rescued by the Coast Guard. "Hope he enjoyed the boat ride"   (cleveland.com) divider line 93
    More: Amusing, Golden Knights, United States Army Parachute Team, Cleveland National Air Show, C-130, petty officers, boat ride, boats  
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7045 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Sep 2012 at 10:48 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-02 12:56:29 AM

Silly Jesus: Recruiting. Some kid sees it, says "I wanna do that", and everyone else gets to avoid having a draft while the kid lives out his parachute dreams scrubbing a toilet in Afghanistan.


It's not just that - they'll also demonstrate to foreign dignitaries, who will, theoretically, be impressed with the skill of our military and negotiate somewhat more favorable deals. Besides that, they want to impress the civilian population so they'll be more likely to vote for and write to politicians to help preserve their budget.

Solid Muldoon: They join because their Dad did. Or because of the recruiters who show up at every high school in the country every year. Or because it beats working at McDonalds.


The idea is like any advertising - put the idea into somebody's head. A father in the military might have greater effect, but I'd say that over half of recruits today don't have immediate family that is/was military. Both me and my brother joined the USAF; dad only served 1 tour, he was out before my brother was born. I was like 3 when he got out. He never really brought up his service(he worked as an accountant while in, at one stateside base, never saw anything close to combat while he was in). I'd say that advertising of various types had a larger effect.
 
2012-09-02 01:02:53 AM

gameshowhost: adeist69: farkityfarker: What's embarrassing is how militaristic our nation has become.

What's truly embarrassing is how some believe our country would be able to survive without the military, cause, you know, peace love & understanding .

That was the worst strawman ever, Towelie.


How 'bout this then: "militaristic" compared with the way it was... when? The present fondness military adventurism and righting the wrongs of the world has roots that go back to that gun-crazy, low-brow archconservative, Woodrow Wilson, or farther back.

Admittedly, enthusiasm for war seemed to lapse after the fruitless bloodbath of WW1 and the humiliating fruitless bloodbath of Vietnam, but that wasn't a decline in militarism. It was like a spoiled, but athletic, kid throwing down his bat and stomping off the field saying, "This game's STUPID!" after suffering a reverse (largely due to his own arrogance). He's still into sport; he just needs time to feel sorry for himself. In the case of American militarism, we just had to make a few films like Apocalypse Now and wallow in the grief of losing 60,000 whole Americans in the virtuous effort to spread democracy and kill 1.5 million Vietnamese (who weren't even grateful, goddammit!) But we just needed a solid win to shake off the blues, and we got that in '91. It's a bit short-sighted to call this an increase in militarism.
 
2012-09-02 01:10:23 AM

xl5150: *Yawn* yet another "branch x of the military is tougher than branch y" post. It's the same thing as sports fans clamoring that "we" did it when some team they had nothing to do with wins a championship.

Here's a novel idea: study hard in school and get into college so that you can get a real job and you'll have options other than joining the military when you're done with high school.


Some people don't see it in their best interest to get into massive amounts of debt just to sit in a cubicle when they can take their time, get paid to see the world (sometimes the less desirable locales), and still get marketable experience when they decide what they want to do.
 
2012-09-02 01:19:03 AM

xl5150: *Yawn* yet another "branch x of the military is tougher than branch y" post. It's the same thing as sports fans clamoring that "we" did it when some team they had nothing to do with wins a championship.

Here's a novel idea: study hard in school and get into college so that you can get a real job and you'll have options other than joining the military when you're done with high school.


I love posts like this. Did you know it's actually harder to join the military, than to get into most colleges? I've yet to see a college that requires, in addition to a HS diploma, a clean juvie/adult criminal record, a second "SAT" type test (ASVAB), physical fitness test, then 8 weeks of grueling introductory training before you are allowed in. Tack into that, a 180 day "We can kick you out for any reason" probationary period. Yeah, the military is a tad harder than getting into your local public college.
 
2012-09-02 01:22:29 AM

Firethorn: Silly Jesus: Recruiting. Some kid sees it, says "I wanna do that", and everyone else gets to avoid having a draft while the kid lives out his parachute dreams scrubbing a toilet in Afghanistan.

It's not just that - they'll also demonstrate to foreign dignitaries, who will, theoretically, be impressed with the skill of our military and negotiate somewhat more favorable deals. Besides that, they want to impress the civilian population so they'll be more likely to vote for and write to politicians to help preserve their budget.

Solid Muldoon: They join because their Dad did. Or because of the recruiters who show up at every high school in the country every year. Or because it beats working at McDonalds.

The idea is like any advertising - put the idea into somebody's head. A father in the military might have greater effect, but I'd say that over half of recruits today don't have immediate family that is/was military. Both me and my brother joined the USAF; dad only served 1 tour, he was out before my brother was born. I was like 3 when he got out. He never really brought up his service(he worked as an accountant while in, at one stateside base, never saw anything close to combat while he was in). I'd say that advertising of various types had a larger effect.


Okay, but do you really think that watching a Marine slay Balrog on a flaming bridge really makes a kid want to enlist? I think it makes them want to play that video game.
 
2012-09-02 01:25:07 AM

BronyMedic: The Rescue Swimmer program is one of the harshest military programs in the World, with drop out rates comparable to that of US Military tiered special forces training programs.


I know. Ashton Kutcher barely made it through, and he had Kevin Costner to help him.

/weakest premise for a boot-camp movie EVAR
//weakest execution, too
 
2012-09-02 01:27:47 AM

semiotix: BronyMedic: The Rescue Swimmer program is one of the harshest military programs in the World, with drop out rates comparable to that of US Military tiered special forces training programs.

I know. Ashton Kutcher barely made it through, and he had Kevin Costner to help him.

/weakest premise for a boot-camp movie EVAR
//weakest execution, too


Kevin Costner is such an overacting hack. Kutcher carried The Guardian.
 
2012-09-02 01:31:19 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: semiotix: BronyMedic: The Rescue Swimmer program is one of the harshest military programs in the World, with drop out rates comparable to that of US Military tiered special forces training programs.

I know. Ashton Kutcher barely made it through, and he had Kevin Costner to help him.

/weakest premise for a boot-camp movie EVAR
//weakest execution, too

Kevin Costner is such an overacting hack. Kutcher carried The Guardian.


And Cuba Gooding says, "glub glub glub."
 
2012-09-02 01:33:03 AM
You Navy rejects are all right.- Homer Simpson

/joking
 
2012-09-02 01:38:36 AM

ShannonKW: csb:

When I was deployed on an aircraft carrier, one of our fighters accidentally shot down a USAF reconnaissance jet. The pilots of the struck plane ejected and came down in the Aegean Sea where they bobbed around until we sent out a helicopter to bring them in for medical treatment. The XO immediately went down to Sick Bay to see them because, being a pilot himself, he knew that the first thing on any pilot's mind in that situation is "Why did my plane blow up? Did I do something wrong? Is my career finished?" and he wanted to reassure them.

So he gets there and he see two huge dudes who must have been just under the maximum height limit, and who as it was later found out had both played college football. One had broken his shoulder or something and they rounded on him when he came in, and he blurted out, "I'm sorry guys, but we shot you down." They were so relieved that they hugged him (one-armed in one case, I guess). XO later admitted to being terrified.

/csb


Never mind the rest of that, but "accidentally"? Do we not, you know, have ways of letting each other know who's a friendly?
 
2012-09-02 02:03:34 AM
Will its not like the golden knights are delta operators volunteering their spare time, but i would still expect him to be able to cut loose and swim a couple hundred yards. My guess is the coasties were already there and saved him the trouble.
 
2012-09-02 02:30:32 AM

Solid Muldoon: Okay, but do you really think that watching a Marine slay Balrog on a flaming bridge really makes a kid want to enlist? I think it makes them want to play that video game.


Nobody says that every ad is going to be effective as intended. I'm sure you can think of plenty of horrible ads for any number of products.

I'm also willing to bet that you weren't part of the target audience for that ad(young males). Besides, that's the one you remember, so even if it didn't affect you, what about a 17 year old thinking about what to do after graduation?

cptjeff: Never mind the rest of that, but "accidentally"? Do we not, you know, have ways of letting each other know who's a friendly?


'Lots' when it comes to aircraft and ships. Ground vehicles are still mostly lacking IFF transponders, and troops are just out of luck. If the story is true, I'm willing to bet that there was a thorough investigation that found multiple faults - on part of both the aircraft(crew) and ship(crew).
 
2012-09-02 02:32:40 AM
The golden knights are experts at What we used to call "Hollywood" maneuvers, and they do nothing else. They are airborne in the same sense that the "old guard" are soldiers. If he had been air assault he would have been fine. Probably would have towed the coast guard vessel to shore after the engines failed do to over exposure to extreeme awesomeness.

Yes im off the damn wagon, what am I, mech?!
 
2012-09-02 02:35:52 AM
I like how the other branches make fun of the Coast Guard even though the US Coast Guard has been the only ones actually defending the homeland for the past few decades rather than being sent off all over the world into unprofitable (to the nation as a whole) business ventures.
 
2012-09-02 02:36:09 AM

cptjeff: Never mind the rest of that, but "accidentally"? Do we not, you know, have ways of letting each other know who's a friendly?


This was back around 1987, so the details are a bit hazy, but as best I can recall it was neither the fault of the pilots nor equipment failure. It was an exercise in which the AF were playing the role of "Orange Forces". We sent up our fighters with "real" AA missiles on them, which was part of the exercise.

In case you didn't know, a missile is a modular device, and it can carry a different payload depending on what you want to do with it. An AA missile can carry a warhead that goes "boom" and hopefully downs a target, or maybe it can carry a telemetry package that sends back data on its performance, which is useful for the designers and doesn't blow up and is relatively safe to sling around in exercises. A "warbird" is a dangerous thing, of course, so as an extra safety it comes with a pin (like on a grenade) attached to a big, friendly, red flag, that must be pulled before it will go off. Pulling that pin constitutes "arming" it. This exercise was supposed to be extra realistic, so we sent the fighters up with the former kind of missile (real dangerous warheads) and the pilots were supposed to "simulate firing" if they managed to get on top of Orange jets.

The problem was (as best I can recall) that the pilots thought that "simulating firing" meant that the ordinancemen wouldn't arm the missiles when they loaded them on the plane, and that they should do everything exactly as they would do it in wartime, including pressing the firing key; whereas the ordinancemen thought that "simulating firing" meant that the pilots would only pretend to press the firing key, and they should do everything exactly as they would do it in wartime, including arming the missiles. The result was... an F-16 pilot who nearly shat his pants after pressing the firing key and hearing the overture of a JAG investigation and an RF-4 going into early retirement.
 
2012-09-02 02:44:14 AM

Dadoody: I like how the other branches make fun of the Coast Guard even though the US Coast Guard has been the only ones actually defending the homeland for the past few decades rather than being sent off all over the world into unprofitable (to the nation as a whole) business ventures.


What exactly is the net profit that the mud puddle sailors have blessed us with. Speaking in business terms of course.
 
2012-09-02 02:49:20 AM

Dadoody: I like how the other branches make fun of the Coast Guard even though the US Coast Guard has been the only ones actually defending the homeland for the past few decades rather than being sent off all over the world into unprofitable (to the nation as a whole) business ventures.


I assume by "defending" you mean driving up the price of weed. Yeah, heroes like cops.
 
2012-09-02 02:53:18 AM

Dadoody: I like how the other branches make fun of the Coast Guard even though the US Coast Guard has been the only ones actually defending the homeland for the past few decades rather than being sent off all over the world into unprofitable (to the nation as a whole) business ventures.


We sleep soundly at night knowing that rough men stand on the deck of a bouy tender issuing tickets for lack of a whistle on a jet ski.
 
2012-09-02 03:24:24 AM

adeist69:
What's truly embarrassing is how some believe our country would be able to survive without the military, cause, you know, peace love & understanding .


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

Other nations manage to have armed services without quite the same degree of slobbering hero worship. Yeah, I know, American exceptionalism.
 
2012-09-02 04:04:26 AM

orbister: Other nations manage to have armed services without quite the same degree of slobbering hero worship. Yeah, I know, American exceptionalism.


O RLY?

List of Military Aircraft Demonstration Teams by Country

Oh, look. You're from the land of kilted men and sheeps stomach for breakfast.

Display teams of the RAF

You're welcome for your schooling.
 
2012-09-02 04:34:53 AM

orbister: adeist69:
What's truly embarrassing is how some believe our country would be able to survive without the military, cause, you know, peace love & understanding .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

Other nations manage to have armed services without quite the same degree of slobbering hero worship. Yeah, I know, American exceptionalism.


For that matter, "slobbering hero worship" does not necessarily go with extravagant military spending or adventurism. I've been to countries that love to bang a drum for the supposedly glorious exploits of their military -- which is used (and fit) for nothing more than parades, watching the borders and keeping the regime in power.

The attitude that defends US military expenditures in terms of national survival is puzzling to me, but it's a fairly common one and is more distinctly American than military hero worship. Lots of countries adore their heroes, but besides the US how many equate the ability to wage war far beyond their borders on nations that do not menace them with national survival? So far as I can make out the US has not warred on any nation that threatened our survival since 1946, unless one considers the $100 billion Afghanistan war our defense against fanatics with box cutters. Yet, many Americans honestly consider our many foreign adventures to be essential to our survival. Some nations defend their expeditions by an appeal to national honor, but only in America do you find people (and lots of 'em) who regard the massive operation to restore the Kuwaiti emirate as a matter of survival for democracy.

There is a cynical trick, certainly not exclusive to Washington, of shoving troops somewhere dangerous, and when they get smacked for being in the way, rushing in reinforcements to defend them. This is accepted by many Americans also as a matter of national survival on the principle that our forces are essential to our survival, and they have a perfect right to sail in the Gulf of Tonkin in the middle of a war, so they should stand their ground and defend democracy on the spot. This attitude has made calling America the "Policeman of the World" an insult to policemen -- we're more like the world's Zimmerman now.
 
2012-09-02 04:40:54 AM

thisisarepeat: Dadoody: I like how the other branches make fun of the Coast Guard even though the US Coast Guard has been the only ones actually defending the homeland for the past few decades rather than being sent off all over the world into unprofitable (to the nation as a whole) business ventures.

What exactly is the net profit that the mud puddle sailors have blessed us with. Speaking in business terms of course.


Aid in trade and tariffs enforcement, directly impressing fines for water way violations, and generally assisting trade, commerce, and code enforcement in a profitable way.
 
2012-09-02 04:42:50 AM

adeist69: farkityfarker: What's embarrassing is how militaristic our nation has become.



What's truly embarrassing is how some believe our country would be able to survive without the military, cause, you know, peace love & understanding .


Right, because the only possible courses are complete disarmament and kill all the Scary Mooselimbs because they're scary.
 
2012-09-02 04:43:31 AM

thisisarepeat: Dadoody: I like how the other branches make fun of the Coast Guard even though the US Coast Guard has been the only ones actually defending the homeland for the past few decades rather than being sent off all over the world into unprofitable (to the nation as a whole) business ventures.

We sleep soundly at night knowing that rough men stand on the deck of a bouy tender issuing tickets for lack of a whistle on a jet ski.


Ha! That's so on the nose, I'm halfway convinced you're a coastie too. Who else would think to specify a buoy tender?
 
2012-09-02 05:20:33 AM
It's late and I'm taking a dump...

Anyway, didn't read through the comments, but the guy in question is my friend.
 
2012-09-02 06:38:46 AM

cptjeff: ShannonKW: csb:

When I was deployed on an aircraft carrier, one of our fighters accidentally shot down a USAF reconnaissance jet. The pilots of the struck plane ejected and came down in the Aegean Sea where they bobbed around until we sent out a helicopter to bring them in for medical treatment. The XO immediately went down to Sick Bay to see them because, being a pilot himself, he knew that the first thing on any pilot's mind in that situation is "Why did my plane blow up? Did I do something wrong? Is my career finished?" and he wanted to reassure them.

So he gets there and he see two huge dudes who must have been just under the maximum height limit, and who as it was later found out had both played college football. One had broken his shoulder or something and they rounded on him when he came in, and he blurted out, "I'm sorry guys, but we shot you down." They were so relieved that they hugged him (one-armed in one case, I guess). XO later admitted to being terrified.

/csb

Never mind the rest of that, but "accidentally"? Do we not, you know, have ways of letting each other know who's a friendly?


Yes, we do. And they work. Most of the time.
 
2012-09-02 06:54:06 AM

BronyMedic: doglover: Ooooh, Pillls

Better living through pharmacology! Or rather, how I learned to love legalized amphetamines.


Or "Why Johnny Can't Blink".

My Chinook once had to recover a crashed Coast Guard helicopter from the side of a cliff on Molokai, Hawaii that had been directed there by the Ronald Reagan scab air controllers. They were in IFR conditions looking for a ship in distress, and the ATCs guided them right into a mountain, killing all three crew.

Twenty-one years later, the CG returned the favor, as my ex-bro in-law, his son, and I were on a disabled charter fishing boat, and almost went into the grinder that is the Lost Coast. Coasties are bad-ass.
 
2012-09-02 07:06:53 AM

OscarTamerz: It'll be more embarrassing when he finds out he can't wash the stench of Cleveland off of him and he smells like that for the next several months.

It could have been worse, the Cuyahoga river could have caught on fire again and he would have had the choice of drowning or burning to death if he fell in there.


[www.ohiohistorycentral.org image 400x310]


Cleveland city of light city of magic
Cleveland city of light you're calling me
Cleveland, even now I can remember
'Cause the Cuyahoga River
Goes smokin' through my dreams

Burn on, big river, burn on
Burn on, big river, burn on
Now the Lord can make you tumble
And the Lord can make you turn
And the Lord can make you overflow
But the Lord can't make you burn

-Randy Newman
 
2012-09-02 08:37:38 AM
Another semi-soft landing by YOUR United States Army Parachute Team, The Golden Nights. May your days be prosperous and your nights Golden.
 
2012-09-02 08:57:10 AM

xl5150: *Yawn* yet another "branch x of the military is tougher than branch y" post. It's the same thing as sports fans clamoring that "we" did it when some team they had nothing to do with wins a championship.

Here's a novel idea: study hard in school and get into college so that you can get a real job and you'll have options other than joining the military when you're done with high school.


0/10
You're trying to hard now. Old schtick is old and you just look stupid.
 
2012-09-02 09:29:35 AM
... but besides the US how many equate the ability to wage war far beyond their borders on nations that do not menace them with national survival? So far as I can make out the US has not warred on any nation that threatened our survival since 1946, unless one considers the $100 billion Afghanistan war our defense against fanatics with box cutters. Yet, many Americans honestly consider our many foreign adventures to be essential to our survival. Some nations defend their expeditions by an appeal to national honor, but only in America do you find people (and lots of 'em) who regard the massive operation to restore the Kuwaiti emirate as a matter of survival for democracy.

...


Actually, I think you're mixing up cause and effect here; it because of our foreign ventures that the military is viewed as essential to the national survival. Essentially, once one has a reputation as the "international Zimmerman" you have to keep doing it. If you don't the fear is the people you've already irked will decide it's time to make you pay for all the past shenanigans you pulled.

As a useful example, think of how some in Iran assume that Britain is the puppet master pulling the U.S.'s strings because they're still convinced of & annoyed over that empire's excesses in her colonial period.

Just my guess; could be blowing smoke.
 
2012-09-02 09:51:09 AM
For those of you interested in the story of the F-14 shooting down the USAF RF-4C

Here you go
 
2012-09-02 10:10:30 AM

Click Click D'oh: For those of you interested in the story of the F-14 shooting down the USAF RF-4C

Here you go


That is so farking cool... They never did tell us the whole story behind that.
 
2012-09-02 10:18:03 AM

Solid Muldoon: Silly Jesus: Solid Muldoon: Silly Jesus: Solid Muldoon: Why the hell are we spending money on this crap anyway?

Golden Knights? Blue Angels?

Shouldn't you be out killing swarthy guys?

Recruiting. Some kid sees it, says "I wanna do that", and everyone else gets to avoid having a draft while the kid lives out his parachute dreams scrubbing a toilet in Afghanistan.

They join because their Dad did. Or because of the recruiters who show up at every high school in the country every year. Or because it beats working at McDonalds.

Don't get me wrong. I think the military is a fine career, as did my grandfather, my father and all of my uncles.

I just think this show-boating is a waste of time and money and makes us look like the drunk guy at a bar unzipping his pants and shouting, "Check this out, babe!"

[www.latimes.com image 300x400]

Would like a word...

Okay, who is that and why would he like a word with me?

Did he spend his career in the Shriner's Motorized Tricycle Parade Division of the army?


A character from the HBO mini-series The Pacific. Similar to their more famous series Band of Brothers. He played a real life Marine named John Basilone. He won the Medal of Honor in combat and even though he was an amazingly effective Marine, they sent him back home to tour around the country giving speeches and making appearances with famous actresses raising money for the war effort. He wasn't very happy about it, but those were his orders because the public image aspect was deemed most important at that time (selling war bonds). He eventually made it back to battle and died there.

CSB
 
2012-09-02 10:24:17 AM

BronyMedic: orbister: Other nations manage to have armed services without quite the same degree of slobbering hero worship. Yeah, I know, American exceptionalism.

O RLY?

List of Military Aircraft Demonstration Teams by Country

Oh, look. You're from the land of kilted men and sheeps stomach for breakfast.

Display teams of the RAF

You're welcome for your schooling.

 

media.tumblr.com
 
2012-09-02 10:35:08 AM

BronyMedic: I'm sorry, but how is it embarrassing to be rescued by the Coast Guard again?

Oh, forgot. They're not a real military branch, right?

The Coast Guard are badasses in the true sense of the word. Their primary mission is saving lives in some of the most inhospitable conditions on earth, from the Arctic ice, to the waters of Alaska, to the Gulf. The Rescue Swimmer program is one of the harshest military programs in the World, with drop out rates comparable to that of US Military tiered special forces training programs.

The Coast Guard also has a proud history of putting a boot in the ass of America's enemies at sea.

/Semper Paratus


Someone has an inferiority complex.

As others have posted, it doesn't matter who rescues you. The embarrassment is that you needed rescuing at all.
 
2012-09-02 01:49:45 PM
The embarrassment is that people are going to think it was embarrassing. In the century-old duel between flying man and atmosphere, atmosphere scored another point.

Wind shear happens. It's invisible, and on rare occasions can smack a half million pound airliner into the ground despite all engines being at full power. In my little light plane, wind shear tried to kill me once at Virginia's Shenandoah Valley Airport. On my approach, the 25 knot wind abruptly shifted 90 degrees, 200 feet above the ground. The little Piper Cherokee dropped like a brick for maybe 50 feet before she turned back into an airplane for me. Then the wind shifted again at treetop height. That one I could see coming since the wind I was flying in was clearly not the same one blowing the windsock. Because it was a windy day at an unfamiliar airport, I'd left lots of safety margin, and on that day I used it. My only experience with a strong, double wind shear.

They told me on the ground that wasn't all that unusual a summer problem in that valley. Well, one thing I can say for that location: I bet the newly-licensed pilots from that school aren't as intimidated by crosswinds as most beginners. :)

So what is it people are imagining that a man hanging from a 'chute can possibly do when a strong wind pushes him offshore faster than his best safe speed? Cut himself loose and fall before he got pushed too far off target? Build an engine and propeller out of the crap in his survival kit?
 
2012-09-02 02:02:48 PM
Just read were a US Army Ranger, with two tours in Afghanistan. Home on leave, went hunting with some buddies. He got lost over night.
 
2012-09-02 02:03:48 PM

adeist69: Ya know, the Golden Knights are starting to sound 'elite' in the same manner that every Snowflake is 'special'.


Both men survived that disaster and you don't think they're special? So it would seem that you think average skydivers would have survived too. Maybe a Google news search of "tangled parachutes" would be enlightening. Because they don't.
 
2012-09-02 03:08:53 PM

ShannonKW: cptjeff: Never mind the rest of that, but "accidentally"? Do we not, you know, have ways of letting each other know who's a friendly?

This was back around 1987, so the details are a bit hazy, but as best I can recall it was neither the fault of the pilots nor equipment failure. It was an exercise in which the AF were playing the role of "Orange Forces". We sent up our fighters with "real" AA missiles on them, which was part of the exercise.

In case you didn't know, a missile is a modular device, and it can carry a different payload depending on what you want to do with it. An AA missile can carry a warhead that goes "boom" and hopefully downs a target, or maybe it can carry a telemetry package that sends back data on its performance, which is useful for the designers and doesn't blow up and is relatively safe to sling around in exercises. A "warbird" is a dangerous thing, of course, so as an extra safety it comes with a pin (like on a grenade) attached to a big, friendly, red flag, that must be pulled before it will go off. Pulling that pin constitutes "arming" it. This exercise was supposed to be extra realistic, so we sent the fighters up with the former kind of missile (real dangerous warheads) and the pilots were supposed to "simulate firing" if they managed to get on top of Orange jets.

The problem was (as best I can recall) that the pilots thought that "simulating firing" meant that the ordinancemen wouldn't arm the missiles when they loaded them on the plane, and that they should do everything exactly as they would do it in wartime, including pressing the firing key; whereas the ordinancemen thought that "simulating firing" meant that the pilots would only pretend to press the firing key, and they should do everything exactly as they would do it in wartime, including arming the missiles. The result was... an F-16 pilot who nearly shat his pants after pressing the firing key and hearing the overture of a JAG investigation and an RF-4 going into early ...


Its ordnance not ordinance. And ordnancemen do not arm a weapon when it is attached to an aircraft. They remove safeguards to allow the pilot to arm the ordnance. They are very careful about these safeguards these days (google Forrestal fire). Obviously you are talking about a screw-up but its likely on the pilot or the person who ordered the wrong ordnance to be put on the aircraft.
 
2012-09-02 03:19:54 PM

kim jong-un: Someone has an inferiority complex.

As others have posted, it doesn't matter who rescues you. The embarrassment is that you needed rescuing at all.


You sound arrogant and stupid saying that.

teapottantrums.typepad.com

Even the best plan for murphy's law.
 
2012-09-02 08:56:00 PM

Intoxoman: Its ordnance not ordinance. And ordnancemen do not arm a weapon when it is attached to an aircraft. They remove safeguards to allow the pilot to arm the ordnance. They are very careful about these safeguards these days (google Forrestal fire). Obviously you are talking about a screw-up but its likely on the pilot or the person who ordered the wrong ordnance to be put on the aircraft.


I'll take your word for it. I didn't work on the flight deck, and I have only what I recall of Captain's Call 25 years ago. Judging from the link that was posted on the incident upthread, we were given something of a snowjob about the causes of the accident, which is sensible given that it turned out to be the subject of an investigation.

If that account is correct, the F-14 pilot actually intended to fire his missile at the RF-4 knowing it was a friendly aircraft, which seems not only criminal but insane. Maybe it's for the best they didn't tell us the real story...
 
2012-09-03 12:40:12 AM

ShannonKW: Intoxoman: Its ordnance not ordinance. And ordnancemen do not arm a weapon when it is attached to an aircraft. They remove safeguards to allow the pilot to arm the ordnance. They are very careful about these safeguards these days (google Forrestal fire). Obviously you are talking about a screw-up but its likely on the pilot or the person who ordered the wrong ordnance to be put on the aircraft.

I'll take your word for it. I didn't work on the flight deck, and I have only what I recall of Captain's Call 25 years ago. Judging from the link that was posted on the incident upthread, we were given something of a snowjob about the causes of the accident, which is sensible given that it turned out to be the subject of an investigation.

If that account is correct, the F-14 pilot actually intended to fire his missile at the RF-4 knowing it was a friendly aircraft, which seems not only criminal but insane. Maybe it's for the best they didn't tell us the real story...


I was Marine aviation ordnance, never worked on carrier. But yea sounds like a snow job.
 
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