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(NPR)   Are Charter Schools the answer to the American education crisis? Short answer: no. Long answer: No   (npr.org) divider line 229
    More: Interesting, charter schools, Americans, American Federation of Teachers, Joe Nathan, private money, graphing calculators  
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9120 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Sep 2012 at 8:47 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-01 10:12:36 PM

Kimothy: As a teacher at one of the most successful charter schools in Nevada, I'm getting a kick...

Some charters are wildly successful, some are adequate, some fail.

Some public schools are wildly successful, some are adequate, some fail.

I don't see the problem.


Exactly. We have lots of charters in Utah, and some are fantastic and others are failures. Just like the public schools.

We were lucky enough to get into our charter and I love it. I say lucky because after taking siblings of current students and teachers kids, everyone else is drawn by lottery. No 'selecting the best', just normal kids.

what's interesting is that our charter schools idea of innovation is simply to break up kids within each grade for topics such as math and language based on their skill level. So they have homeroom and then go to whatever teacher they have for those subjects.

I have kids on the high group level and on the lower and they all get teachers that teach to them, not to where they are in the book. This always seemed like such common sense, I think all schools should do this.
 
2012-09-01 10:12:37 PM
There is nothing that can be done about education or America as a whole. Progressives have destroyed standards and w/out standards, you can't have any kind of functional long term society.
 
2012-09-01 10:13:01 PM

intelligent comment below: Kimothy: And you lumping all charter schools together proves what?


It proves that the general idea is not a quick fix solution for education in America. The exact thing it's championed as by the right wing who thinks everyone should be making a profit off everything and that magically is better than when government does it.


Can't someone be in favor of both improving public schools AND supporting charter schools? I only work at a charter school because they offered me a job first. Working at a charter school does not mean I am anti-teacher union/anti-public school.
 
2012-09-01 10:14:26 PM

intelligent comment below: desertfool: badhatharry: Nice try, union representative.

This is why I hate Fark around election time. These folks keep popping up.


This is why after years of viewing and only starting to post less than a year ago, my troll favorite list to warn me of those people is over 100


See my post above yours, I apologized. The poster joined Fark in Oct 2001, me in Dec 2001. May be a troll, but at least an old troll with a history, not like the folks who joined in the summer of 2008 and weren't active after November 2008 until now.
 
2012-09-01 10:15:50 PM

intelligent comment below: The exact thing it's championed as by the right wing


That's actually one of the best data points for why you know they are good. You look at which "side" (Red Team vs. Blue Team) has a lot of defectors. Everyone on Blue Team who isn't heavily invested in the status quo in education agrees they're good.
 
2012-09-01 10:18:27 PM

intelligent comment below: Kimothy: And you lumping all charter schools together proves what?


It proves that the general idea is not a quick fix solution for education in America. The exact thing it's championed as by the right wing who thinks everyone should be making a profit off everything and that magically is better than when government does it.


I'm the libbiest lib who ever libbed, I can assure you. I don't think charters are a fix-all or a quick fix for America's school. But - I don't see any problem with diversifying schools. Like I said before, I think ALL charters should be non-profits. Once you open them to for-profit interests, you've opened the door to corruption (not that non-profits are never corrupt, but I believe the risk would be much lower).
 
2012-09-01 10:19:04 PM

Jonny Chimpo: intelligent comment below: Kimothy: And you lumping all charter schools together proves what?


It proves that the general idea is not a quick fix solution for education in America. The exact thing it's championed as by the right wing who thinks everyone should be making a profit off everything and that magically is better than when government does it.

Can't someone be in favor of both improving public schools AND supporting charter schools? I only work at a charter school because they offered me a job first. Working at a charter school does not mean I am anti-teacher union/anti-public school.


Same here.
 
2012-09-01 10:21:01 PM
Does America have an education crisis? Short answer: no. Long answer: not really.
 
2012-09-01 10:21:44 PM

montex: cretinbob: So other than the fact that they are private schools funded by public taxes, what is the difference?

The difference is they get tax dollars to teach Jesus.


You mean they teach in Spanish?
 
2012-09-01 10:23:30 PM

Jonny Chimpo: Can't someone be in favor of both improving public schools AND supporting charter schools? I only work at a charter school because they offered me a job first. Working at a charter school does not mean I am anti-teacher union/anti-public school.



Of course they can, but that isn't the argument here. Did you even read TFA or the headline? Are Charter Schools THE ANSWER

And that is what the debate is about. yes some of them work, some of them don't. Just like public schools.


BMFPitt: Everyone on Blue Team who isn't heavily invested in the status quo in education agrees they're good.


citations needed

Considering private industry is the one to benefit with huge payouts, your cries of "blue side" invested are just as hypocritical as claiming climate change scientists are just in it for the money
 
2012-09-01 10:24:31 PM

desertfool: See my post above yours, I apologized. The poster joined Fark in Oct 2001, me in Dec 2001. May be a troll, but at least an old troll with a history, not like the folks who joined in the summer of 2008 and weren't active after November 2008 until now.



What's the difference? A troll's a troll. It's still pathetic and ruins the website
 
2012-09-01 10:25:41 PM

RexTalionis: The problem with charter schools is that they are often able to cherry pick or self select their pupils. They can take only the good students, leaving the special needs children (ie the more expensive students) to the already overburdened public schools, which cannot cherry pick.

Of course, when charter schools can pick their students, their performance looks "better" than their public counterparts. And when public schools are left to handle the special needs children with the model students picked away, their performance looks "worse.".


That's not true. Charter schools are public schools and are required to take any student who wants to go there, even special needs kids. If more students apply then they have seats for then the charter holds a lottery to select.
 
2012-09-01 10:26:09 PM

malaktaus: You want to improve the American education system? Abolish all private and religious education and ensure public schools all receive the same level of funding per student. A few people will send their kids to boarding schools in foreign countries, but most will be pretty well stuck. The American public school education will be world-class in no time, and that will never, ever happen if the children of the elites are exempt. Of course this will not even be considered, because it does not serve the selfish, short term interests of the owners of this countries, and American students will continue to fall behind indefinitely. Eventually America will be a third-rate nation intellectually incapable of developing state of the art military hardware and economically incapable of projecting serious military power abroad, and the present world order will end. The world will likely descend into a dark age, and resource scarcity may prevent any kind of renaissance from ever occurring; the world will fulfill Malthus's predictions at last and the survivors will envy the dead. But hey, maybe I'm just a pessimist.


Why do you hate america?
Unions are evil who want to force homosexuals on kids and call it right. To teach that america is always wrong, well fark them all outlaw unions for public sector workers.
 
2012-09-01 10:26:25 PM
The future of education will mostly be via computer learning. It's the ultimate low-market solution to our education problem, and it sidesteps all of the political baggage that goes with our public school system here in the US today.
 
2012-09-01 10:29:41 PM

E_Henry_Thripshaws_Disease: anything the teachers union is against is good for students


0/10

/It's like you're not even trying.
 
2012-09-01 10:29:44 PM

Duke_leto_Atredes: To teach that america is always wrong



you sound like a drunk high school graduate hired as a Romney speech writer
 
2012-09-01 10:30:22 PM

intelligent comment below: Jonny Chimpo: Can't someone be in favor of both improving public schools AND supporting charter schools? I only work at a charter school because they offered me a job first. Working at a charter school does not mean I am anti-teacher union/anti-public school.


Of course they can, but that isn't the argument here. Did you even read TFA or the headline? Are Charter Schools THE ANSWER

And that is what the debate is about. yes some of them work, some of them don't. Just like public schools.

Sorry, i got sidetracked debating on the legitimacy good charter schools existing. Even though I work at a charter school, I don't think its THE ANSWER. I also do not think there is a THE answer to public education. It is a combination of trying to get parents involved, offering true alternatives (like vocational schools) to the students who are not interested in the general curricula and express their boredom by acting out, and I personally think an end of high stakes multiple choice testing determining funding (as well as many other things).

Charter schools may play a role in the solution (especially vocational schools, because students will choose to be there ending legal issues listed above).
 
2012-09-01 10:30:40 PM

intelligent comment below: desertfool: See my post above yours, I apologized. The poster joined Fark in Oct 2001, me in Dec 2001. May be a troll, but at least an old troll with a history, not like the folks who joined in the summer of 2008 and weren't active after November 2008 until now.


What's the difference? A troll's a troll. It's still pathetic and ruins the website


Trolling with a political agenda wasn't prevalent back then. I give badhatharry a pass. Hell, I guess I am a liberal troll, only one with a long track record.
 
2012-09-01 10:31:00 PM
More glorious and noble charter schools making a better society!

/b-b-b-b-but it's Louisiana ;_; my school isn't like that
//maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle, like gravity vs fairy dust, or science vs Odin
 
2012-09-01 10:33:34 PM
btw, "national survey and study" =/= "lumping them in together" anymore than two anedotal accounts = data.
 
2012-09-01 10:34:13 PM

rmoody: More glorious and noble charter schools making a better society!

/b-b-b-b-but it's Louisiana ;_; my school isn't like that
//maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle, like gravity vs fairy dust, or science vs Odin


Which is EXACTLY what the charter school supporters have been saying in this thread.
 
2012-09-01 10:35:10 PM

rmoody: More glorious and noble charter schools making a better society!

/b-b-b-b-but it's Louisiana ;_; my school isn't like that
//maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle, like gravity vs fairy dust, or science vs Odin


You seem to be intentionally obtuse. My school isn't like Louisiana. You know why? Louisiana and North Carolina have much different rules for obtaining a school charter. Different rules = different schools. My school isn't perfect, but using an outlier to prove an entire system is failing, I am starting to think you are just a troll.
 
2012-09-01 10:38:11 PM

rmoody: btw, "national survey and study" =/= "lumping them in together" anymore than two anedotal accounts = data.


I am not using my anecdotal evidence as data to support all charter schools. I am using it to attempt to disprove your argument that "ALL CHARTER SCHOOLS - BAD! ALL CHARTER SCHOOLS = TEACH JESUS. ALL CHARTER SCHOOLS = DISMANTLING OF THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM".

When you use "charter schools" as a generalization, anecdotal evidence is all you need to disprove you.
 
2012-09-01 10:40:28 PM

Jonny Chimpo: rmoody: More glorious and noble charter schools making a better society!

/b-b-b-b-but it's Louisiana ;_; my school isn't like that
//maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle, like gravity vs fairy dust, or science vs Odin

You seem to be intentionally obtuse. My school isn't like Louisiana. You know why? Louisiana and North Carolina have much different rules for obtaining a school charter. Different rules = different schools. My school isn't perfect, but using an outlier to prove an entire system is failing, I am starting to think you are just a troll.


Not a troll, just very, very invested into a politically-charged preconceived viewpoint instead of focusing on the problem.

/That's better, right?
 
2012-09-01 10:41:41 PM
intelligent comment below

What's with all the derp brigade conservatives suddenly showing up after being MIA for the disaster week of the GOP convention?

Did Koch PR force all his minions to attend the convention to pad the audience numbers and they couldn't troll fark?


Bro, it's called sarcasm. I hope your gaydar works better
 
2012-09-01 10:43:58 PM

FloydA: The only real problem is that, in many places, schools are funded by property taxes, so the schools in low income neighborhoods are severely under-funded. As a result of poor funding, the schools have low rates of achievement. (Poor funding is not the only reason why some public schools under-perform, some well-funded schools under-perform as well, but in the poorest communities, lack of school funding is certainly a contributing factor.)

 

Our large school district collects and distributes property taxes county-wide. So, the money doesn't just stay in the rich neighborhoods. We have nearly 100 elementary schools and I used a spreadsheet to rank them using public data on the percentage of students scoring at or above grade level at each school. In the top third of the schools, an average of 72% of students scored at or above grade level. This is compared to 53% in the middle third and 38% of students in the bottom third. The district also publishes the spending per student at each school. I combined this data with the performance data above and found the average spending per student at the top third performing schools is 8,353 dollars, the middle third is 9,775 dollars, and the worst (bottom third) schools had an average of 10,802 dollars per student. The highest performing schools are, with only a few exceptions, located in neighborhoods with higher rates of home ownership, employment, two-parent households, and education. As somebody else mentioned above, it comes down to the home environment.
 
2012-09-01 10:45:37 PM

RexTalionis: The problem with charter schools is that they are often able to cherry pick or self select their pupils.


I fail to see the problem with this. If their continued profit is directly tied to the number of students they successfully teach, why shouldn't they pick the students that are actually capable of learning the material? Why should they waste time and money trying to teach students who will never be reached, unless you just want to force them to shut down and send all the smart kids back to public school where they won't be allowed to learn anything more complicated than algebra?

/went to public school myself
//everything I learned, I learned from a subscription to COMPUTE! magazine and sneaking into college and military libraries... nothing at all from any teachers, not even basic social skills
 
2012-09-01 10:45:43 PM
]Ah, here it is. If you wanna know where the future of health care, or higher education (or education in general) is going, you might wanna pay attention to what this gentleman has to say. He's also made a rather sound analysis of how solar power will eventually take hold in countries such as Mongolia (where over half their population has no access to power, hence solar power will likely be how they build their infrastructure up with). Nintendo followed this guy's advice with the Wii and DS and were hugely successful as a result. They then abandoned it with the 3DS, and well, the results speak for themselves.

If you're actually interested in learning the future of innovation, then definitely check Mr. Christensen's work out.
 
2012-09-01 10:46:09 PM

E_Henry_Thripshaws_Disease: anything the teachers union is against is good for students


Jerry Sandusky agrees with you.
 
2012-09-01 10:48:08 PM

cretinbob: So other than the fact that they are private schools funded by public taxes, what is the difference?
Sounds like bullshiat to me.


Are you really asking? Here's why.

Charter schools can select who they take. They are not bound by the mandate to provide free education to all students within their residency zone--if your kid is too dumb or too unathlethic or too Jewish or too brown, they can exclude your child REGARDLESS of whether there is another school of equal quality in your area. It's on the PARENT to find a school that the kid can attend, and charters are under no requirement to provide transportation. If the only other school you can attend is 25 miles away, then guess what, you can figure out how to get your child there. If you have a special-needs child and the charter doesn't want to accommodate him/her, it is much harder to require them to meet IDEA/504 regulations, but also harder to force them to provide a free appropriate education plan somewhere else.

Charter schools do not have to have afterschool programs, or indeed any programs beyond the core curriculum if they choose not to--again, if you were hoping that football or debate club was going to give your kid that extra edge for college, you can find one that will take you, and provide transportation, because the school has no duty to provide anything. All that is nice if you are wealthy and can afford to school-shop for your snowflake; but if you are poor or middle-class and need the convenience of a nearby school, you are screwed. If they don't want you, they can't be forced to take you.

The upshot will be that only people who can afford it will get charter school, until such time as education lawyers can force compliance with Federal laws regarding funding and programming. That will take time, and the kids in the schools will suffer in the meantime.
 
2012-09-01 10:48:19 PM
There's tens of millions of children in this country in public schools and it is downright myopic to suggest that any approach, agrarian/year round/charter etc is the answer to it all.

The free market works better than central planning because the aggregate decisions of a few million individuals produces a more accurate result than a bureaucrat who decides how much something should cost or how much of a product should be made. The same holds for education

A community ought to be able to come together and decide that a particular style of education isn't working. They might try a blend of military/boarding style education, performing arts education for those who show the propensity or a trade based education or simply offer a combination and allow parents to choose.

This issue can be a winner for the GOP. Ask any parent who should pick where their kid goes to school and 100/100 of them will want that decision for themselves.
 
2012-09-01 10:48:50 PM

Kimothy: I don't see the problem.


I taught at a charter for a year.

Now I teach in public schools.

Basically, charters fall into two categories if they are going to be useful. 1) they fulfill a niche that isn't covered by the local public system. (The charter I taught at was an all JROTC program which provided a lot of structure for kids who just couldn't function in a regular school...niche)

KIPP would be my example of "experimental". If the community is willing to provide the funding, every school can do what KIPP does, but most communities don't want their kids in school 12 hours/day.

Otherwise, you nailed it. There are good, bad, ugly, mediocre schools of every type. The vouchers in LA are going to schools that have "bible based science" and videos all day, every day, in addition to a few good private schools.
 
2012-09-01 10:50:36 PM

RexTalionis: The problem with charter schools is that they are often able to cherry pick or self select their pupils. They can take only the good students, leaving the special needs children (ie the more expensive students) to the already overburdened public schools, which cannot cherry pick.

Of course, when charter schools can pick their students, their performance looks "better" than their public counterparts. And when public schools are left to handle the special needs children with the model students picked away, their performance looks "worse."

And this is the charter school scam.


Exactly. That's why they do better. The biggest factor in how a school does is the students.

Jarhead_h: Solution to the crisis? Homeschool. Failing that try a democratic school using the Sudberry Valley model, or even a free school. The crisis was caused by government standardizing the Prussian model across the US, and you aren't going to fix the problem using the same level of thinking that caused it. Of course as these Prussian model charter schools/private schools are finding out, why fix it when there's money to be made from prolonging the problem.


Few parents are up to home schooling.
 
2012-09-01 10:51:32 PM
Unschooling has some intriguing possibilities, too.

John Taylor Gatto on Unschooling - Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1xuXomtZr4&feature=plcp

Astra Taylor on the Unschooled Life
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwIyy1Fi-4Q&feature=related
 
2012-09-01 10:52:55 PM

Jonny Chimpo: rmoody: BMFPitt: cretinbob: So other than the fact that they are private schools funded by public taxes, what is the difference?

They get better results for less money,

Hmmm... Nope.

and the kids and parents are happier.

"Now that Billy doesn't have to be around those people and learn about evolution, we're much happier."

Seriously? You have a very skewed view of charter schools. All charter schools are not like Louisiana's. They seem to be what you are judging on. You may be thinking of the school voucher program. School vouchers =/= charter schools.

I will use anecdotal evidence once again: 1) My principal nearly got fired last year for using a biblical story at the first staff meeting. 2) My school is about 30% African American, 15% Hispanic.


did these parents ever teach their kids to think for themselves? NO?
 
2012-09-01 10:53:10 PM

desertfool: fusillade762: Are there any countries in the world that have fully privatized all their schools? It would be interesting to see how that worked out for them.

Try Honduras. Or a lot of 3rd world countries. Only the rich get educated, and it works great for them. Not so much for the rest of the country, but the rich do awesome.


Education was so awful in Indonesia during Suharto's time that well-to-do parents either had to send their small kids to boarding school in Singapore (traumatic for a 7-year-old) or buy them a phony Vanuatu or Panamanian passport so they could register as an 'expatriate student' at ten grand a year plus plus at snooty Jakarta International School: Indonesian nationals could not attend, because of national pride. Much better these days, but still too expensive for most families.
 
2012-09-01 10:58:13 PM

Gyrfalcon: cretinbob: So other than the fact that they are private schools funded by public taxes, what is the difference?
Sounds like bullshiat to me.

Are you really asking? Here's why.

Charter schools can select who they take. They are not bound by the mandate to provide free education to all students within their residency zone--if your kid is too dumb or too unathlethic or too Jewish or too brown, they can exclude your child REGARDLESS of whether there is another school of equal quality in your area. It's on the PARENT to find a school that the kid can attend, and charters are under no requirement to provide transportation. If the only other school you can attend is 25 miles away, then guess what, you can figure out how to get your child there. If you have a special-needs child and the charter doesn't want to accommodate him/her, it is much harder to require them to meet IDEA/504 regulations, but also harder to force them to provide a free appropriate education plan somewhere else.

Charter schools do not have to have afterschool programs, or indeed any programs beyond the core curriculum if they choose not to--again, if you were hoping that football or debate club was going to give your kid that extra edge for college, you can find one that will take you, and provide transportation, because the school has no duty to provide anything. All that is nice if you are wealthy and can afford to school-shop for your snowflake; but if you are poor or middle-class and need the convenience of a nearby school, you are screwed. If they don't want you, they can't be forced to take you.

The upshot will be that only people who can afford it will get charter school, until such time as education lawyers can force compliance with Federal laws regarding funding and programming. That will take time, and the kids in the schools will suffer in the meantime.


My daughter was in a chater Montessori school. They required that parents get involved with the child's education and the child be willing to learn. Some were ruled out.
 
2012-09-01 11:05:28 PM

o5iiawah: The free market works better than central planning because the aggregate decisions of a few million individuals produces a more accurate result than a bureaucrat who decides how much something should cost or how much of a product should be made. The same holds for education


Well, if we had a free market, sure.
 
2012-09-01 11:05:40 PM

o5iiawah: There's tens of millions of children in this country in public schools and it is downright myopic to suggest that any approach, agrarian/year round/charter etc is the answer to it all.

The free market works better than central planning because the aggregate decisions of a few million individuals produces a more accurate result than a bureaucrat who decides how much something should cost or how much of a product should be made. The same holds for education

A community ought to be able to come together and decide that a particular style of education isn't working. They might try a blend of military/boarding style education, performing arts education for those who show the propensity or a trade based education or simply offer a combination and allow parents to choose.

This issue can be a winner for the GOP. Ask any parent who should pick where their kid goes to school and 100/100 of them will want that decision for themselves.


Charter schools frequently require parental participation. Many of the parents B*tching the loudest expect the school to do all the work in educating their offspring while they do whatever.
 
2012-09-01 11:07:38 PM

Loren: Few parents are up to home schooling.


Oh, pshaw, we've got loads of home schoolers around here, and all their kids can count to Jesus and correctly ascribe everything to God. Real-world know-how is for libruls.
 
2012-09-01 11:08:26 PM

AbbeySomeone:
My daughter was in a chater Montessori school. They required that parents get involved with the child's education and the child be willing to learn. Some were ruled out..


That's the crux of it. Make education important at home, reinforce what is taught at school, and communicate with the teachers and you will have a kid who excels in school.

Education should be for the willing. Parents should be encouraged, and forced by law if necessary, to take an active role in their kid's life at school. Those who still can't get their acts together should be removed from the system as to not slow everyone else down.

School should not be daycare, and a high school diploma should mean something. If we stopped trying to drag along those who are opposed to getting an education then everyone else could move that much faster and further.
 
2012-09-01 11:11:06 PM
It IS the answer if you want to privatize the public schools. Use the hard-earned dollars of taxpayers to subsidize sectarian religious schools.
 
2012-09-01 11:12:23 PM

Bucky Katt: It IS the answer if you want to privatize the public schools. Use the hard-earned dollars of taxpayers to subsidize sectarian religious schools.


That's more or less why I'm against these programs. Louisiana's attempt was proof enough that this was just trying to indoctrinate children to the conservative ideology.
 
2012-09-01 11:12:26 PM

AbbeySomeone: Charter schools frequently require parental participation. Many of the parents B*tching the loudest expect the school to do all the work in educating their offspring while they do whatever.


You've got no arguments from me about that. If a kid is smart, the parents credit themselves. If a kid is a troublemaking little shiat then it is the school's fault.
 
2012-09-01 11:16:38 PM
Having a parent in the educational field (Major props to Kimothy & Jonny Chimpo for doing that job), it seems the biggest benefits the charter schools have is the parents who care enough to apply for help (as opposed to the ones who simply assume that 8am to 3pm is state daycare until age 18) and the lack of systemic control from bloated local politics.

As for the former, it IS an advantage to have parents who give a damn. I respect the work of teachers, but there is a foundation of support from the parent(s) of the child in question. That would do wonders in poor schools, even where resources are scarce. Just by that reason alone gives me skepticism on the success of charter schools (Indiana also allows a voucher system that leads to clumping among high performance schools that can discriminate - Like Indianapolis Cathedral or Lafayette Central Catholic). I'm sure teachers are legitimately trying, but I can't help but take it with a grain of salt.

As for the latter, I'm sure getting rid of school boards and telling administrative consultants to fark themselves does improve things greatly. The reduced benefit of not getting bulk rates on food purchases (Again, Indiana allows local districts to bulk order food and generic supplies - like cleaners - for all schools in an area to maximize cost savings) is probably more than offset by the benefits of not having to obey educational goals and arbitrary standards. All this would indicate is that the problem lies with the tards at the big desk, not the tards in the classroom desks.

Honestly, I'd appreciate your feedback because this thread is interesting.

/Yet another reason why I love Fark
 
2012-09-01 11:21:43 PM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: As for the latter, I'm sure getting rid of school boards and telling administrative consultants to fark themselves does improve things greatly. The reduced benefit of not getting bulk rates on food purchases (Again, Indiana allows local districts to bulk order food and generic supplies - like cleaners - for all schools in an area to maximize cost savings) is probably more than offset by the benefits of not having to obey educational goals and arbitrary standards. All this would indicate is that the problem lies with the tards at the big desk, not the tards in the classroom desks.


I agree.

The school district I used to belong to just recently came up with a plan to have all the 5th and 6th graders in the city I live in attend the same school on one side of town and then have the 7th and 8th graders in the city attend another school on the opposite end of town.

And the reasoning they used was that they thought they could save money doing this.

/facepalm
 
2012-09-01 11:22:20 PM
The real problem with inner city schools is a lack of strong leadership.

You gotta let the teachers AND the students who the HNIC is.

www.utk.edu
 
2012-09-01 11:23:15 PM
Self selection is a huge thing in all of this. The kids whose parents would even sign them up to get into a charter school are a completely different kind of student than the ones who are failing in the school system. An involved parent can make their kid a success in the worst schools and a kid with uninvolved parents will struggle in the best schools.
 
2012-09-01 11:24:35 PM

TuteTibiImperes: AbbeySomeone:
My daughter was in a chater Montessori school. They required that parents get involved with the child's education and the child be willing to learn. Some were ruled out..

That's the crux of it. Make education important at home, reinforce what is taught at school, and communicate with the teachers and you will have a kid who excels in school.

Education should be for the willing. Parents should be encouraged, and forced by law if necessary, to take an active role in their kid's life at school. Those who still can't get their acts together should be removed from the system as to not slow everyone else down.

School should not be daycare, and a high school diploma should mean something. If we stopped trying to drag along those who are opposed to getting an education then everyone else could move that much faster and further.


If they are all chater schools there will be interviews to assess the child's capabilities as well as the parents.
You don't want to learn? Go somewhere else.
 
2012-09-01 11:27:02 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: The real problem with inner city schools is a lack of strong leadership.

You gotta let the teachers AND the students who the HNIC is.

[www.utk.edu image 300x400]


What does Hockey Night in Canada have to do with this?
 
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