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(Guardian)   Will Rory get killed again? Are the Daleks going to be the classic versions, or of the My Little Dalek: Extermination is Magic design? And just Who is The Doctor? Season 7 of Doctor Who begins with Asylum of the Daleks   (guardian.co.uk) divider line 457
    More: Spiffy, Daleks, mental hospital  
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1983 clicks; posted to Geek » on 01 Sep 2012 at 8:22 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-01 05:26:45 AM  
Yes. Both. I really hope they're not answering that question.

/Still trying to decide whether to buy or "acquire" this season
//Somebody let me know if BBCa is still running the asinine "Amy Pond Show" intros
///and if iTunes is selling the unadulterated versions
////"Acquired" most previous Smith episodes, so I think I'll pony up this time
//Each time I make a slashy, I think about Karen Gillan naked
//Soon it will be Jenna-Louise Coleman
 
2012-09-01 04:36:15 PM  

100 Watt Walrus: Yes. Both. I really hope they're not answering that question.

/Still trying to decide whether to buy or "acquire" this season
//Somebody let me know if BBCa is still running the asinine "Amy Pond Show" intros
///and if iTunes is selling the unadulterated versions
////"Acquired" most previous Smith episodes, so I think I'll pony up this time
//Each time I make a slashy, I think about Karen Gillan naked
//Soon it will be Jenna-Louise Coleman


I don't know that they'll kill Rory, because that is what is expected. I am intrigued to find out where Moffat takes the name thing, because at this point he can't just suddenly give the doctor's name, because no matter what he picks, there's no way everyone will be happy with it.

I'm thinking about both buying and acquiring. I like to pay for it or at least watch the broadcast (not an option because I'm not paying for cable to watch one show, even if it is DW) because I love it, but I have no patience whatsoever to wait for the episodes to become available.
 
2012-09-01 06:43:39 PM  
I think I'll give BBCA one chance this season.

Of course, I'll probably regret it, but I won't biatch. I know what I'm getting into.

After that, I'm sure this thread will have given us all plenty of places to find the British versions on these fine tubes so we don't have to deal with BBCA if we don't want to.

/two hours in the US until

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-09-01 06:53:59 PM  
Rules of the New Doctor Who:

1) The Doctor Lies
2) Rory Dies.
 
2012-09-01 07:03:28 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: I think I'll give BBCA one chance this season.

Of course, I'll probably regret it, but I won't biatch. I know what I'm getting into.

After that, I'm sure this thread will have given us all plenty of places to find the British versions on these fine tubes so we don't have to deal with BBCA if we don't want to.

/two hours in the US until

[24.media.tumblr.com image 500x250]


I love that picture, in a disturbing sort of way.
 
2012-09-01 07:51:55 PM  
Solid episode, the actress who is the new companion gets a nice little role
 
2012-09-01 07:58:43 PM  

Luthien's Tempest: FirstNationalBastard: I think I'll give BBCA one chance this season.

Of course, I'll probably regret it, but I won't biatch. I know what I'm getting into.

After that, I'm sure this thread will have given us all plenty of places to find the British versions on these fine tubes so we don't have to deal with BBCA if we don't want to.

/two hours in the US until

[24.media.tumblr.com image 500x250]

I love that picture, in a disturbing sort of way.


Both the MLP fan and Whovian in me enjoys that photo.

...and this one.

cdn.head-fi.org
 
2012-09-01 08:17:26 PM  

Nefarious: Solid episode, the actress who is the new companion gets a nice little role


I've got to wonder if the character from tonight is the same as the companion... Is Moffat going to have another character whose story we see end before we see it begin?

FirstNationalBastard: ...

Both the MLP fan and Whovian in me enjoys that photo.

...and this one.

[cdn.head-fi.org image 500x1140]


I never much got into MLP, but those are awesome.
 
2012-09-01 08:24:38 PM  
Morons on Tumblr have already given away details about the Doctor's new companion...sheesh.
 
2012-09-01 08:27:44 PM  

Luthien's Tempest: Nefarious: Solid episode, the actress who is the new companion gets a nice little role

I've got to wonder if the character from tonight is the same as the companion... Is Moffat going to have another character whose story we see end before we see it begin?


She's got a different name, so I'd think it's not the same character, especially since she didn't recognize the Doctor at all. If Clara is from the Victorian era like people have been speculating, maybe it's Clara's great, great, great, great, great grand daughter.
 
2012-09-01 08:27:54 PM  
Who's got two thumbs and is stoked for the new episode?

/this guy
//and everyone else
///even if it is the crappy bbca version
 
2012-09-01 08:28:14 PM  

BronyMedic: Rules of the New Doctor Who:
1) The Doctor Lies


The Doctor always lies. That's the thing, it's been true since the Bakers and it's true now... it's just far more obvious (to the viewer at least) that he is in fact lying.
 
2012-09-01 08:29:08 PM  
I am enjoying that the new companion is not going to be a helpless girl from present day Earth.
 
2012-09-01 08:29:24 PM  
I will be at work, but I have my DVR set to record it. Have fun Whovians!
 
2012-09-01 08:29:43 PM  
Already watched (VPN/ iPlayer). I really liked it. Cant't really discuss it--spoilers!

The question asked by Dorium shows up again tonight.

If you are surprised by the reveal, you're thick.

And I'm forgetting something. forgetting. can't think of it.
 
2012-09-01 08:29:48 PM  

rynthetyn: Luthien's Tempest: Nefarious: Solid episode, the actress who is the new companion gets a nice little role

I've got to wonder if the character from tonight is the same as the companion... Is Moffat going to have another character whose story we see end before we see it begin?

She's got a different name, so I'd think it's not the same character, especially since she didn't recognize the Doctor at all. If Clara is from the Victorian era like people have been speculating, maybe it's Clara's great, great, great, great, great grand daughter.


Or we just saw the final end of the Corsairs companion... and he's off to find her closer to when she's abandoned.
 
2012-09-01 08:33:06 PM  

ODDwhun: I am enjoying that the new companion is not going to be a helpless girl from present day Earth.


Helpless? Like who?
 
2012-09-01 08:33:59 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: I think I'll give BBCA one chance this season.

Of course, I'll probably regret it, but I won't biatch. I know what I'm getting into.



I'm holding you to that. If not, my Vince McMahon book your sex life.

/ok, even if you lie that is far too strong a punishment
//Hornswoggle created this post
 
2012-09-01 08:38:33 PM  
God I love expatshield!
 
2012-09-01 08:39:41 PM  
Probably the best Dalek episode since "Dalek". Not that there's any real competition in there. It's interesting that disabled, limited, and barely functional Daleks are far more menacing than anything we've seen lately.
 
2012-09-01 08:40:00 PM  
I will admit, I saw it coming, but DAMN I still love The Doctor.
 
2012-09-01 08:41:17 PM  
Also, the emphasis on "Doctor who?" is going to annoy the crap out of me, isn't it? Every once in awhile, they have to do a nod to it, and that's fine. But since Dorium's announcement, they're going to hammer it until it's dead, aren't they?
 
2012-09-01 08:41:18 PM  

rynthetyn: Luthien's Tempest: Nefarious: Solid episode, the actress who is the new companion gets a nice little role

I've got to wonder if the character from tonight is the same as the companion... Is Moffat going to have another character whose story we see end before we see it begin?

She's got a different name, so I'd think it's not the same character, especially since she didn't recognize the Doctor at all. If Clara is from the Victorian era like people have been speculating, maybe it's Clara's great, great, great, great, great grand daughter.


So we're going for the Martha/Adeola Gwen/Gwyneth angle??!

Either way, nice cameo, Looking forward to the rollercoaster ride!

/Out of 10, I'd give this one a 7.
//Doctor Who????
///Geronimo!
 
2012-09-01 08:41:40 PM  

Di Atribe: ODDwhun: I am enjoying that the new companion is not going to be a helpless girl from present day Earth.

Helpless? Like who?


What a helpless Who may look like:

theoodcast.com
 
2012-09-01 08:43:49 PM  

t3knomanser: Also, the emphasis on "Doctor who?" is going to annoy the crap out of me, isn't it? Every once in awhile, they have to do a nod to it, and that's fine. But since Dorium's announcement, they're going to hammer it until it's dead, aren't they?


If stupid poopface weinerhead Michael Grade-inspired BBC hadn't canceled the show in 1989, they were going to get into this very question in 1990.
 
2012-09-01 08:46:29 PM  
Dang, I'm ready for this action
 
2012-09-01 08:46:48 PM  
Damn, I love this show. I really, really do.
 
2012-09-01 08:48:27 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: t3knomanser: Also, the emphasis on "Doctor who?" is going to annoy the crap out of me, isn't it? Every once in awhile, they have to do a nod to it, and that's fine. But since Dorium's announcement, they're going to hammer it until it's dead, aren't they?

If stupid poopface weinerhead Michael Grade-inspired BBC hadn't canceled the show in 1989, they were going to get into this very question in 1990.


Good point. The end of Silver Nemesis was one of the more obvious bits of setup. Plus all the odds and ends in Rememberance of the Daleks.
 
2012-09-01 08:53:28 PM  
The reveal reminded me of Source Code. But the whole milk thing bugged me. They have replicators in the Whoverse, so why wonder where she got milk from?
 
2012-09-01 08:53:59 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: they were going to get into this very question in 1990.


It's not the issue of the Doctor's identity- it's the issue of Daleks screaming, "Doctor who?"
 
2012-09-01 08:54:26 PM  

Di Atribe: ODDwhun: I am enjoying that the new companion is not going to be a helpless girl from present day Earth.

Helpless? Like who?


Ok, so I obviously wrote that mid-episode since she's not going to be doing much companioning (is that a word? it is now) in this episode. But, still Rose was basically useless except for her being the living embodiment of deus ex machina. My favorite companions are the ones who are his equals or at least keep him in his place, so I like Romana, Donna, even Amy. I just don't like the ones that fawn all over him like Rose or even Martha, even though I think Martha had lots of potential. But now I really am curios what's going to happen to bring the new girl back.
 
2012-09-01 08:54:53 PM  

Flint Ironstag: They have replicators in the Whoverse, so why wonder where she got milk from?


Because she couldn't answer the question the first time.
 
2012-09-01 08:55:12 PM  
Just finished it up and hot damn I loved it. I've never found the Daleks to be scary before. If Moffat's mission was to change that, mission accomplished.
 
2012-09-01 08:56:06 PM  
Ok, so: A) Do we get the Amy Pond adventures opening?
B) Do we get a new theme?
C) I just want to here "EXTERMINATEEEEEEEEEE"
 
2012-09-01 08:57:38 PM  

t3knomanser: Flint Ironstag: They have replicators in the Whoverse, so why wonder where she got milk from?

Because she couldn't answer the question the first time.


The Daleks never answered Rory's question about what color the Daleks were either, but the Doctor didn't leap to conclusions about it.
 
2012-09-01 08:58:08 PM  

Flint Ironstag: but the Doctor didn't leap to conclusions about it


Actually, he leapt (well, was pushed) moments later.
 
2012-09-01 08:58:10 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Di Atribe: ODDwhun: I am enjoying that the new companion is not going to be a helpless girl from present day Earth.

Helpless? Like who?

What a helpless Who may look like:

[theoodcast.com image 508x382]


I watched The Five Doctors the other day and I was reminded of what a limp-noodle the Fifth Doctor was. Peter Davison had his moments, but for the most part he was collapsing from something or other. Hell, the first few episodes he was in, he had regeneration sickness and wasn't a very active member of the story.

Not the actor's fault. Just not great writing, I guess
 
2012-09-01 08:59:06 PM  
Wow. They edited out the whole smartass exchange between Amy & the Doctor there. Bummer!
 
2012-09-01 08:59:49 PM  

Mega Steve: FirstNationalBastard: Di Atribe: ODDwhun: I am enjoying that the new companion is not going to be a helpless girl from present day Earth.

Helpless? Like who?

What a helpless Who may look like:

[theoodcast.com image 508x382]

I watched The Five Doctors the other day and I was reminded of what a limp-noodle the Fifth Doctor was. Peter Davison had his moments, but for the most part he was collapsing from something or other. Hell, the first few episodes he was in, he had regeneration sickness and wasn't a very active member of the story.

Not the actor's fault. Just not great writing, I guess


He played a cow on Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy, so he's got that going for him.
 
2012-09-01 09:01:38 PM  
SKARO!
 
2012-09-01 09:02:27 PM  
Yes I watched it but I'm examining the BBCA cut right now.
 
2012-09-01 09:03:16 PM  

Mega Steve: FirstNationalBastard: Di Atribe: ODDwhun: I am enjoying that the new companion is not going to be a helpless girl from present day Earth.

Helpless? Like who?

What a helpless Who may look like:

[theoodcast.com image 508x382]

I watched The Five Doctors the other day and I was reminded of what a limp-noodle the Fifth Doctor was. Peter Davison had his moments, but for the most part he was collapsing from something or other. Hell, the first few episodes he was in, he had regeneration sickness and wasn't a very active member of the story.

Not the actor's fault. Just not great writing, I guess


I believe Davison himself said that if the writing had been as good in his first two seasons as it was in his final season, he wouldn't have left after three seasons.

...now, why they couldn't carry the good writing from Davison's final season over into Colin Baker's run, I don't know.

/Eh, Baker 2 had Vengeance on Varos, which shows the promise his Doctor had. The writers just couldn't consistently write good episodes.
 
2012-09-01 09:07:01 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: he wouldn't have left after three seasons.


"Caves of Androzani" is probably the best regeneration any Doctor had. And not because he recovered on a pair of massive pillows. It's a really great serial.
 
2012-09-01 09:07:17 PM  

t3knomanser: Also, the emphasis on "Doctor who?" is going to annoy the crap out of me, isn't it? Every once in awhile, they have to do a nod to it, and that's fine. But since Dorium's announcement, they're going to hammer it until it's dead, aren't they?


It has been dead a long time now. Yet still it gets beaten. It is the Moffatt way. It is what he does. One or two good ideas, played over and over and over as if it is the first time anyone has seen them. When people complain he cuts an episode or two off the year. Get used to it and don't talk bad about him or you will be chastised by all the little Whoover interns.
 
2012-09-01 09:07:24 PM  
Too many spoilery things i scanned past, be back post-episode

Enjoy all
 
2012-09-01 09:08:18 PM  

TheManofPA: Ok, so: A) Do we get the Amy Pond adventures opening?
B) Do we get a new theme?
C) I just want to here "EXTERMINATEEEEEEEEEE"


No. Yes. EXTERMINATE!!!
 
2012-09-01 09:10:42 PM  

Di Atribe: Wow. They edited out the whole smartass exchange between Amy & the Doctor there. Bummer!


Which is why you just steal it from the internet. The BBC America's edits have farked up more than one Doctor Who scene (especially the first episode of Matt Smiths tenure).
 
2012-09-01 09:11:52 PM  

t3knomanser: FirstNationalBastard: he wouldn't have left after three seasons.

"Caves of Androzani" is probably the best regeneration any Doctor had. And not because he recovered on a pair of massive pillows. It's a really great serial.


Caves was a great story, and the best Regeneration. And coming out of A Day in the Life (of a Time Lord) to Colin Baker's snarky, meta introduction had so much promise.
 
2012-09-01 09:13:03 PM  

gingerjet: Di Atribe: Wow. They edited out the whole smartass exchange between Amy & the Doctor there. Bummer!

Which is why you just steal it from the internet. The BBC America's edits have farked up more than one Doctor Who scene (especially the first episode of Matt Smiths tenure).


IIRC, the first BBCA airing is supposed to be uncut, with regular run airings getting chopped.

I'm hoping that's still true this year.
 
2012-09-01 09:15:43 PM  

Flint Ironstag: The reveal reminded me of Source Code. But the whole milk thing bugged me. They have replicators in the Whoverse, so why wonder where she got milk from?


He wanted to find out what kind of "world" she lived in without asking a lot of direct questions. He might have been suspicious that she was a Dalek very early on, but didn't want to shock her since she was the only way out. After all, it would have been shocking to come right out and say, "You do know you are a Dalek, right?" It wouldn't be that far of a stretch to think that it was a Dalek right away. Who else is smart enough to hack a Dalek insane asylum but a Dalek? And what's more insane than a Dalek that plays music. She may have never been human. She only thinks she looks like Jenna-Louise Coleman
 
2012-09-01 09:18:00 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Colin Baker's snarky, meta introduction had so much promise.


"Change Peri, and not a moment too soon!"

I actually got chills when he delivered that line. Pity pretty much everything after that was so terrible. "Varos" was watchable, but it's not great. He also had the worst companions.
 
2012-09-01 09:19:30 PM  
And we get a farking commercial, this is why I watch using a VPN normally and am going to do so from now on
 
2012-09-01 09:21:00 PM  

BronyMedic: Rules of the New Doctor Who:
1) The Doctor Lies
2) Rory Dies.


You forgot: 3) The Doctor and companions meet each other out of sync

The out-of-sequence thing first planned for Mel Bush (until Colin Baker decided to quit) and hinted at with the Face of Boe was a cute nuance to "Father's Day" and "Smith and Jones". Exploring it more fully with River has opened up many new plot lines. But damn it, it has been done to farking death. Of the companions since Mel (and not including the issue with Sarah Jane, Turlough and Teegan created by "The Five Doctors), the following meet the Doctor out of sequence from him meeting them:
  *  Mel Bush (When she appears in Trial of a Timelord, she & Six have already been travelling for a while after that)
  *  Rose Tyler (met Nine as a baby & Ten as an adult before Nine met her adult self)
  *  Mickey Smith (met Nine as a little boy)
  *  Jack Harkness (Face of Boe kept calling Nine & Ten "Old Friend"; Nine meets Jack after meeting FoB)
  *  Martha Jones (bumps into Ten on the way to work where he meets her; after they get back he meets her the previous morning)
  *  River Song (Ten meets at end of her life; she meets Eleven as a baby (through avatar and small child)
  *  Amy Pond (She meets Eleven & her adult self at a fair, 2 years before Eleven meets her in her back yard)
  *  Oswin Oswald (Eleven meets her at the end of her life, after she had already become Dalek-ised)
  *  (not a companion, but) HM Elizabeth I (Ten doesn't know why she hates him; later nails her & takes off)

It's farking cliché now. The only multi-episode companions who are not out of sync with the Doctor since the trend started with Mel (even counting companions who were not technically companions for more than one episode) are:
  *  Dorothy "Ace" McShane
  *  Adam Mitchell
  *  K-9
  *  Donna Noble
  *  Wilfred Mott
  *  Rory Williams
  *  Craig Owens
  *  (not officially a companion, but) Jackie Tyler

Before you think that I left off Sarah Jane Smith, remember that she met the First and Second Doctors in "The Five Doctors" long after she finished her companionship of the Third and Fourth Doctors.


On a separate issue, is it just me or did Darla Von Karlsen look like she was made up to look a lot like Gideon Vandaleur (or rather the Teslecta disguised as Gideon Vandaleur)? Because of that look, I knew she wasn't real almost right away, I just figured she was a Teslecta, not a Dalek in a human suit.
 
2012-09-01 09:21:47 PM  
HOLY CRAP THAT'S TONIGHT?

Awesome!

/SO finally f--king broke me a few months ago
//sticking to the current doctor (with the exception of watching the original River Song episodes for the context) cause just catching up on the two seasons took so much time.... can't get caught up on it all, dammit
///keeps telling me the 10th was the best, eh, I don't know if it's the story arcs, or River Song, or Matt Smith in particular but it just hasn't grabbed me like the past two seasons have
 
2012-09-01 09:24:54 PM  

gingerjet: Di Atribe: Wow. They edited out the whole smartass exchange between Amy & the Doctor there. Bummer!

Which is why you just steal it from the internet. The BBC America's edits have farked up more than one Doctor Who scene (especially the first episode of Matt Smiths tenure).


We watched all of the episodes from Rose on through Netflix. Of course, it takes forever to get new episodes up. Boooooo!

DALEK ZOMBIES!!
 
2012-09-01 09:32:23 PM  
It's pretty amazing that nobody got spoilered on Jenna Louise Coleman being in the episode despite it having screened publicly weeks ago.
 
2012-09-01 09:34:16 PM  
Well, ABC (Australia, that is) did the amazing thing and put it up on their web viewer before it shows on TV - That is, Australians can legitimately stream it online a full week before it shows on TV. Now that's how it's done.

On to the ep: Liked it, a lot, but I must admit to being so used to the big-overarching-plot type stories that I think I was waiting for more from it... but no, that's just me, and no fault of this ep. Had me going "wtf?"-quisical-dog at a few points until things were explained and I went "Ahhh! I see now!"

Are we hiding spoilers? Some things have kinda been said already and I don't want to ruin it for anyone just checking in on this thread...

Spoilers in white:
- So yeah, since that was the new companion there, does this mean we know how she dies before we meet her properly?
- How could Amy ever give up Rory? She's crazy. He's managed to get even more handsome, and he would never stop loving her, he waited for her for two thousand years and he looks at her with those puppydog eyes and gawd I'm gushing over a fictional character shoot me now.
- I'm glad we get to see why the Daleks are so feared and how they aren't just pepper pots on wheels... they do have tech and spies and stuff.
- And yeah, the Doctor has been wiped from their memory... and he made them what they are...
- This is more on the theme that was set last season though: The Doctor has got too "large", too well known. I suspect we're going to be seeing more of him doing things to reduce his impact on the universe.
- Why didn't the nanobots affect the doctor? Or did they...?


Anyway, so very glad the Doctor is back
 
2012-09-01 09:34:19 PM  

Di Atribe: gingerjet: Di Atribe: Wow. They edited out the whole smartass exchange between Amy & the Doctor there. Bummer!

Which is why you just steal it from the internet. The BBC America's edits have farked up more than one Doctor Who scene (especially the first episode of Matt Smiths tenure).

We watched all of the episodes from Rose on through Netflix. Of course, it takes forever to get new episodes up. Boooooo!

DALEK ZOMBIES!!


I'm downloading expat shield onto the SO's laptop right now.

/so do I wait for the SO to wake up from a well-deserved-after-garden-work-all-day nap to watch, or do I watch now?
//AGH
 
2012-09-01 09:34:35 PM  
So, so far we have zombie Daleks, Dalek zombies, a potential companion, Amy maybe taking the big sleep, and Rory still alive.
 
2012-09-01 09:35:24 PM  

ghost_who_walks: Spoilers in white:


Thanks for doing that.

/gonna back up slowly out of the thread now
//and shake the SO awake
 
2012-09-01 09:36:01 PM  

rynthetyn: It's pretty amazing that nobody got spoilered on Jenna Louise Coleman being in the episode despite it having screened publicly weeks ago.


It was announced that she was in it a long time ago. There was much debate as to whether she was appearing as her companion character, or as somebody else. It's pretty common for actresses to reappear in different roles. Karen Gillian was in the Rome episode.

Now, for it to happen in the same season- well, that would be odd.
 
2012-09-01 09:38:36 PM  
i have been hating on the doctor for a few years now, but this one was actually pretty good. let's see how long that lasts.
 
2012-09-01 09:38:56 PM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: /so do I wait for the SO to wake up from a well-deserved-after-garden-work-all-day nap to watch, or do I watch now?


That is so sweet to want to wait for your SO! I say watch it now & then re-watch it when he/she wakes up & feign ignorance. :)
 
2012-09-01 09:41:15 PM  

Di Atribe: StreetlightInTheGhetto: /so do I wait for the SO to wake up from a well-deserved-after-garden-work-all-day nap to watch, or do I watch now?

That is so sweet to want to wait for your SO! I say watch it now & then re-watch it when he/she wakes up & feign ignorance omniscience!!!!. :)

 

FTFY
 
2012-09-01 09:45:28 PM  

ghost_who_walks: 1- So yeah, since that was the new companion there, does this mean we know how she dies before we meet her properly?
2- How could Amy ever give up Rory? She's crazy. He's managed to get even more handsome, and he would never stop loving her, he waited for her for two thousand years and he looks at her with those puppydog eyes and gawd I'm gushing over a fictional character shoot me now.
3- I'm glad we get to see why the Daleks are so feared and how they aren't just pepper pots on wheels... they do have tech and spies and stuff.
4- And yeah, the Doctor has been wiped from their memory... and he made them what they are...
5- This is more on the theme that was set last season though: The Doctor has got too "large", too well known. I suspect we're going to be seeing more of him doing things to reduce his impact on the universe.
6- Why didn't the nanobots affect the doctor? Or did they...?


1. The new companion has a different name. So, maybe that only looks like the new companion.
2. He wanted kids. She couldn't give them. She gave him up so he could have what he wanted. She loves him so much she will give him up to keep him happy. (Ugh, I feel sick just typing that. I need to turn in my man card.)
3. I wondered why we only saw one basic shape until now. Maybe they feel "salt-shaker" is the optimal shape.
4. That means that we get to enjoy watching them develop their hate for him all over again.
5. Possibly, but since he and River can't keep track of his timeline, how can anyone else. If some one spots him all he needs to say is "Lake Where?" or "What astronaut? Sorry, must be my future."
6. They probably did, but the TARDIS can repair him.
 
2012-09-01 09:47:38 PM  

t3knomanser: Now, for it to happen in the same season- well, that would be odd.


I can't imagine they would introduce a new companion, send out PR photos & then put them into an early ep as someone else. Karen's role in Fires of Pompeii was a totally different situation. Same with Martha in Doomsday.
 
2012-09-01 09:48:03 PM  
Aren't the Daleks supposed to be dead?
 
2012-09-01 09:48:51 PM  
Vulcan? Wtf
 
2012-09-01 09:49:51 PM  
Oh, and new title/font stuff!
 
2012-09-01 09:50:40 PM  

silgryphon: Aren't the Daleks supposed to be dead?


They were remade as Ironsides in that episode with Churchill, Victory of the Daleks
 
2012-09-01 09:51:45 PM  

Gunny Walker: ghost_who_walks: 1- So yeah, since that was the new companion there, does this mean we know how she dies before we meet her properly?
2- How could Amy ever give up Rory? She's crazy. He's managed to get even more handsome, and he would never stop loving her, he waited for her for two thousand years and he looks at her with those puppydog eyes and gawd I'm gushing over a fictional character shoot me now.
3- I'm glad we get to see why the Daleks are so feared and how they aren't just pepper pots on wheels... they do have tech and spies and stuff.
4- And yeah, the Doctor has been wiped from their memory... and he made them what they are...
5- This is more on the theme that was set last season though: The Doctor has got too "large", too well known. I suspect we're going to be seeing more of him doing things to reduce his impact on the universe.
6- Why didn't the nanobots affect the doctor? Or did they...?

1. The new companion has a different name. So, maybe that only looks like the new companion.
2. He wanted kids. She couldn't give them. She gave him up so he could have what he wanted. She loves him so much she will give him up to keep him happy. (Ugh, I feel sick just typing that. I need to turn in my man card.)
3. I wondered why we only saw one basic shape until now. Maybe they feel "salt-shaker" is the optimal shape.
4. That means that we get to enjoy watching them develop their hate for him all over again.
5. Possibly, but since he and River can't keep track of his timeline, how can anyone else. If some one spots him all he needs to say is "Lake Where?" or "What astronaut? Sorry, must be my future."
6. They probably did, but the TARDIS can repair him.


For the companion thing I can only imagine that the "remember me" part will factor into her story somehow. It just seems like some foreshadowing
 
2012-09-01 09:52:05 PM  
Holy shiat a padded room dalek
 
2012-09-01 09:57:11 PM  
Oh that's awesome
 
2012-09-01 09:59:55 PM  

Tellingthem: For the companion thing I can only imagine that the "remember me" part will factor into her story somehow. It just seems like some foreshadowing


Maybe the Doctor reprogrammed a crazy Dalek as her in some Machiavellian plot to get Amy and Rory back together. He knew they had problems in The Pond Life. This might be a Doctor from after JLC's departure. He knew all the time what was going on and had a vortex manipulator in his pocket in case things got to be too hairy. Then he told her the story so she could have a happy death. Because the Doctor thinks even Daleks deserve a decent death.
 
2012-09-01 10:00:04 PM  
Great episode, and I'm really looking forward to the new companion.

Sucks that we only get five episodes this block of the season.
 
2012-09-01 10:00:41 PM  

silgryphon: Aren't the Daleks supposed to be dead?


The Daleks have Joker blood in them. Doesn't matter how dead they are, you know they're coming back.
 
2012-09-01 10:02:59 PM  
Soooo that was sheer awesome.

The Doctor's new companion is a Dalek?
 
2012-09-01 10:03:08 PM  

Gunny Walker: Tellingthem: For the companion thing I can only imagine that the "remember me" part will factor into her story somehow. It just seems like some foreshadowing

Maybe the Doctor reprogrammed a crazy Dalek as her in some Machiavellian plot to get Amy and Rory back together. He knew they had problems in The Pond Life. This might be a Doctor from after JLC's departure. He knew all the time what was going on and had a vortex manipulator in his pocket in case things got to be too hairy. Then he told her the story so she could have a happy death. Because the Doctor thinks even Daleks deserve a decent death.


Heh after the last couple of season i would guess that you are right.My first thought is that later she is somehow made from his memory and then he decides to bring her along as payback for "her" saving their lives.
 
2012-09-01 10:03:18 PM  
Doctor Who?
 
2012-09-01 10:04:13 PM  

silgryphon: Oh that's awesome


That was good awesome. Not as many twists as I expected, the ones they had were great.

Next week looks good. Have nearly the full day of catch ups to re-go through. The River Song story can be confusing. Missed much of them again taking care of Bella (the dog).
 
2012-09-01 10:04:41 PM  

TheManofPA: Soooo that was sheer awesome.

The Doctor's new companion is a Dalek?


Different name so probably not, she was awesome though.
 
2012-09-01 10:04:43 PM  

Tellingthem: For the companion thing I can only imagine that the "remember me" part will factor into her story somehow. It just seems like some foreshadowing


Holy Crap! I think you're right. (I'm re-watching the episode and just hit that part.) She says remember and looks right at the camera. The nanobots changed the doctor. She downloads herself to the nanobots in the Doctor and Amy. She is then later re-created from their memories. After all, she is clever enough to pull that off. Maybe she gets a ganger, but changes her name to keep the Doctor from figuring it out. She even helps them escape right into the TARDIS. The Doctor is so cocky, it doesn't even occur to him that he might have gotten help this time.
 
2012-09-01 10:04:58 PM  

ThisIsNotSubtle: Damn, I love this show. I really, really do.


Ummmmm HELLLLLLLLLLL YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
 
2012-09-01 10:05:56 PM  
"Eggs?"

"EGGS...TERMINATE!""

so awesome.

I give this episode 10/10
 
2012-09-01 10:07:44 PM  

Dogfacedgod: "Eggs?"

"EGGS...TERMINATE!""

so awesome.

I give this episode 10/10


I was laughing during that scene. And the 11 of 10 on the danger scale. Some one has watched Spinal Tap.
 
2012-09-01 10:07:53 PM  
Ghost who walks:

Amy threw out Rory because she loved him and wanted him to be able to have the kids that he had always wanted and that she no longer can have because of what Kovarian and her staff did to her at Demons Run. Of course, it's possible that the real problem with her lady parts was caused not by the treatments, but by gestating a damn Time Lord for nine months.

That tied back to a thought I had when Amy was signing the marital settlement agreement or whatever that particular divorce document is called in English courts: The two of them probably had to commit perjury. One or more of the statements in such documents reflect whether or not there was issue from the marriage and the ages and competency of such issue. They would have to falsely claim that the parties had no children. They couldn't hardly put down anything like: "The marriage resulted in a daughter, Melody Pond, alias Mels [something], alias River Song (hereinafter "Daughter"), born on ________ 51xx, outside of the Commonwealth on the asteroid known as Demons Run (currently aged ~50 years). Husband and Wife acknowledge paternity of Daughter."  What else could they do? Admit that they had a kid and that she died without any death certificate or having reported it?
 
2012-09-01 10:12:30 PM  

PaulieattheTap: Dogfacedgod: "Eggs?"

"EGGS...TERMINATE!""

so awesome.

I give this episode 10/10

I was laughing during that scene. And the 11 of 10 on the danger scale. Some one has watched Spinal Tap.


"The nose vs the chin. You two could have a fencing match."
 
2012-09-01 10:13:08 PM  
Man, that Jenna Louise Coleman is farking adorable.
 
2012-09-01 10:13:28 PM  

Gunny Walker: Tellingthem: For the companion thing I can only imagine that the "remember me" part will factor into her story somehow. It just seems like some foreshadowing

Holy Crap! I think you're right. (I'm re-watching the episode and just hit that part.) She says remember and looks right at the camera. The nanobots changed the doctor. She downloads herself to the nanobots in the Doctor and Amy. She is then later re-created from their memories. After all, she is clever enough to pull that off. Maybe she gets a ganger, but changes her name to keep the Doctor from figuring it out. She even helps them escape right into the TARDIS. The Doctor is so cocky, it doesn't even occur to him that he might have gotten help this time.


Yeah it just seemed to me to be a little too "bad wolf" for just a throwaway line. I'm guessing there will be more hints to come if this is a somewhat accurate.
 
2012-09-01 10:14:26 PM  
I saw Oswin's issue coming a mile away, but it was sort of sad. She reminded me so much of Jenny that I actually thought it might be Jenny when he found her, only partially converted and mostly insane. It wasn't. It wasn't as sad as that would have been, but it was still pretty far out there.

Seeing the Ponds having issues with their relationship was nice. I like to think the Doctor is putting a massive strain on the entire thing, and has been the entire time.
 
2012-09-01 10:14:32 PM  

NeoCortex42: PaulieattheTap: Dogfacedgod: "Eggs?"

"EGGS...TERMINATE!""

so awesome.

I give this episode 10/10

I was laughing during that scene. And the 11 of 10 on the danger scale. Some one has watched Spinal Tap.

"The nose vs the chin. You two could have a fencing match."


What about Mrs. Robinson?
 
2012-09-01 10:15:41 PM  

Nefarious: TheManofPA: Soooo that was sheer awesome.

The Doctor's new companion is a Dalek?

Different name so probably not, she was awesome though.


It was more sadly I was like.....wait why does this actress look really familiar. Once it clicked I was like.....oh how'd they pull that off so that people didn't know she was in the opener
 
2012-09-01 10:17:42 PM  

That Reilly Monster: Just finished it up and hot damn I loved it. I've never found the Daleks to be scary before. If Moffat's mission was to change that, mission accomplished.


Haven't seen it yet, but the Daleks SHOULD be scary. After all, it's their mission to kill all other sentient life in the universe...

/ enjoyed how they were curbstomping the Cybermen in "Doomsday"
 
2012-09-01 10:21:03 PM  
Has anyone figured out yet why the Doctor quietly told Amy in the Dalek ship to "make them remember you" or am I reading too much into it?
 
2012-09-01 10:23:03 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: Amy threw out Rory because she loved him and wanted him to be able to have the kids that he had always wanted and that she no longer can have because of what Kovarian and her staff did to her at Demons Run. Of course, it's possible that the real problem with her lady parts was caused not by the treatments, but by gestating a damn Time Lord for nine months.


Oh I know all that. I was just getting a little gay over Rory. He's just so damn cute.
 
2012-09-01 10:23:09 PM  

silgryphon: Vulcan? Wtf


Yep.

In Patrick Troughton's first serial, The Doctor fought the Daleks on a planet called Vulcan.

Unfortunately, the serial is lost (as so many Troughton serials are), so the best you'll ever get is an audio reconstruction of it if you want to search for it.

And yes, it did air after Star Trek had begun, but I don't know if Trek would have made it over the pond by the time the serial was written.
 
2012-09-01 10:25:12 PM  
The only way to make this episode suck more would be to have Rose make yet another comeback.
 
2012-09-01 10:26:16 PM  

Time Traveling Bunnies: Has anyone figured out yet why the Doctor quietly told Amy in the Dalek ship to "make them remember you" or am I reading too much into it?


She asked what to do next. He was talking about himself. Make the Daleks remember him. He can get them cross and they will make mistakes or it will buy him time to work something out.
 
2012-09-01 10:27:57 PM  

Gunny Walker: ghost_who_walks:

1- So yeah, since that was the new companion there, does this mean we know how she dies before we meet her properly?

1. The new companion has a different name. So, maybe that only looks like the new companion.


Hmmmm...That'll be very interesting how they explain her out.

2- How could Amy ever give up Rory? She's crazy. He's managed to get even more handsome, and he would never stop loving her, he waited for her for two thousand years and he looks at her with those puppydog eyes and gawd I'm gushing over a fictional character shoot me now.

2. He wanted kids. She couldn't give them. She gave him up so he could have what he wanted. She loves him so much she will give him up to keep him happy. (Ugh, I feel sick just typing that. I need to turn in my man card.)


Looks like The Silence screwed up her bodily function; gonna enjoy seeing them fall when *the question" is finally uttered.

3- I'm glad we get to see why the Daleks are so feared and how they aren't just pepper pots on wheels... they do have tech and spies and stuff.

3. I wondered why we only saw one basic shape until now. Maybe they feel "salt-shaker" is the optimal shape.


Hmmmm...maybe they've finally figured out how to use their technology on other races (such as humans) in order to convert them into Daleks. Hell, the Cybermen can't be the only ones converting other races.

4- And yeah, the Doctor has been wiped from their memory... and he made them what they are...

4. That means that we get to enjoy watching them develop their hate for him all over again.


Call this a balancing out from "Victory of the Daleks." If the new generation of Dalek is now more dangerous and lethal than the previous version, they would've killed him eventually. Now, since they don't know who he is, the Doctor has regained the advantage.

5- This is more on the theme that was set last season though: The Doctor has got too "large", too well known. I suspect we're going to be seeing more of him doing things to reduce his impact on the universe.

5. Possibly, but since he and River can't keep track of his timeline, how can anyone else. If some one spots him all he needs to say is "Lake Where?" or "What astronaut? Sorry, must be my future."


That wouldn't explain how the Daleks knew that he was alive after all; after last season, the universe knew that he "died." Unless, of course, since the TARDIS gives out an energy signal that they knew about and thus confirmed that the Doctor was alive.

6- Why didn't the nanobots affect the doctor? Or did they...?

6. They probably did, but the TARDIS can repair him.


it's more likely that since Galifreyan physiology is different than that of a human, it would've taken more time for the nanobots to convert the Doctor's body. That and the emotions of a time lord can be very different than that of a human being as well.
 
2012-09-01 10:29:28 PM  

Gunny Walker: Tellingthem: For the companion thing I can only imagine that the "remember me" part will factor into her story somehow. It just seems like some foreshadowing

Holy Crap! I think you're right. (I'm re-watching the episode and just hit that part.) She says remember and looks right at the camera. The nanobots changed the doctor. She downloads herself to the nanobots in the Doctor and Amy. She is then later re-created from their memories. After all, she is clever enough to pull that off. Maybe she gets a ganger, but changes her name to keep the Doctor from figuring it out. She even helps them escape right into the TARDIS. The Doctor is so cocky, it doesn't even occur to him that he might have gotten help this time.


I can't be staying awake all that long so my comment is made small so that West Coasties can quickly slip past the spoiler.

And there's also the point that from the Doctor's perspective he never sees her face. All he ever sees of her is the chained Dalek form in the last room.
 
2012-09-01 10:29:32 PM  

Nefarious: TheManofPA: Soooo that was sheer awesome.

The Doctor's new companion is a Dalek?

Different name so probably not, she was awesome though.


Yeah, if that's gonna be her personality when she's formally introduced, she's gonna be awesome*

* -- Kinda really cute too.
 
2012-09-01 10:29:59 PM  

Rwa2play: Gunny Walker: ghost_who_walks:

1- So yeah, since that was the new companion there, does this mean we know how she dies before we meet her properly?

1. The new companion has a different name. So, maybe that only looks like the new companion.

Hmmmm...That'll be very interesting how they explain her out.


remember while we saw her no one else did.
 
2012-09-01 10:32:34 PM  

Rwa2play:
it's more likely that since Galifreyan physiology is different than that of a human, it would've taken more time for the nanobots to convert the Doctor's body. That and the emotions of a time lord can be very different than that of a human being as well.


It's more likely that he can't be converted. Remember that the cyberman can't convert him as well? I'm still betting that they screwed with his head a little, but full conversion is most likely impossible. And, even if so, they would probably deem him unworthy and toss him. He wouldn't make for a very sane Dalek.
 
2012-09-01 10:32:40 PM  

Rwa2play: it's more likely that since Galifreyan physiology is different than that of a human, it would've taken more time for the nanobots to convert the Doctor's body. That and the emotions of a time lord can be very different than that of a human being as well.


The Doctor loves himself far more than Amy loves Rory and Rory loves Amy?
 
2012-09-01 10:33:40 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: Man, that Jenna Louise Coleman is farking adorable.


I seriously, SERIOUSLY hope she turns out to be Susan, she was just wayyyyyyyyy too cocky in the episode to not be..
 
2012-09-01 10:33:57 PM  

Nefarious: Rwa2play: Gunny Walker: ghost_who_walks:

1- So yeah, since that was the new companion there, does this mean we know how she dies before we meet her properly?

1. The new companion has a different name. So, maybe that only looks like the new companion.

Hmmmm...That'll be very interesting how they explain her out.

remember while we saw her no one else did.


I meant explaining her out to the audience; unless, as previously stated, she'll have a different name.
 
2012-09-01 10:34:14 PM  

Rwa2play: Nefarious: TheManofPA: Soooo that was sheer awesome.

The Doctor's new companion is a Dalek?

Different name so probably not, she was awesome though.

Yeah, if that's gonna be her personality when she's formally introduced, she's gonna be awesome*

* -- Kinda really cute too.


As long as she doesn't want spiny time lord cock invading her, or become the focal point of the entire universe (and show)... yeah. If this is the way the new companion is going to be, I like her. She has a sort of an Ace vibe, except with tech instead of explosives.

/And did BBCA hear the year of biatching and fix some of their problems? No extra intros, only three commercial breaks (which can be easily skipped if you DVR the show and start watching at around 15 past the hour)...
//Also like the new font used in the credits. It's much better than the giant metal looking shiat from the last couple seasons.
 
2012-09-01 10:35:54 PM  

CptnSpldng: And there's also the point that from the Doctor's perspective he never sees her face. All he ever sees of her is the chained Dalek form in the last room.


Good point.
 
2012-09-01 10:36:17 PM  

Time Traveling Bunnies: Has anyone figured out yet why the Doctor quietly told Amy in the Dalek ship to "make them remember you" or am I reading too much into it?


Oh, damn, I forgot that.
 
2012-09-01 10:37:01 PM  
I wish the special weapons Dalek had done more than sit in the background in a couple of shots....
 
2012-09-01 10:38:18 PM  

Dalek Caan's doomed mistress: Rwa2play:
it's more likely that since Galifreyan physiology is different than that of a human, it would've taken more time for the nanobots to convert the Doctor's body. That and the emotions of a time lord can be very different than that of a human being as well.


It's more likely that he can't be converted. Remember that the cyberman can't convert him as well? I'm still betting that they screwed with his head a little, but full conversion is most likely impossible. And, even if so, they would probably deem him unworthy and toss him. He wouldn't make for a very sane Dalek.


Hmmmm, possibly. Cybermen however, rip take out your human parts and replace them with cybernetic bodies. Daleks were evolving and changing humanoid bodies into Dalek bodies; sorta like the Silurians IIRC.
 
2012-09-01 10:40:50 PM  

Rwa2play: Dalek Caan's doomed mistress: Rwa2play:
it's more likely that since Galifreyan physiology is different than that of a human, it would've taken more time for the nanobots to convert the Doctor's body. That and the emotions of a time lord can be very different than that of a human being as well.


It's more likely that he can't be converted. Remember that the cyberman can't convert him as well? I'm still betting that they screwed with his head a little, but full conversion is most likely impossible. And, even if so, they would probably deem him unworthy and toss him. He wouldn't make for a very sane Dalek.

Hmmmm, possibly. Cybermen however, rip take out your human parts and replace them with cybernetic bodies. Daleks were evolving and changing humanoid bodies into Dalek bodies; sorta like the Silurians IIRC.


Haven't your hardcore fundie Daleks always had a problem with Humans tainting their purity?

IIRC, there was a Dalek vs. Humagg....er... Hybrid Dalek thing in the last couple Dalek serials in the classic series, and I think it was referenced in the current series (The Manhattan episode?)

Now, Daleks are happily turning Humans?
 
2012-09-01 10:41:20 PM  

TheManofPA: Rwa2play: it's more likely that since Galifreyan physiology is different than that of a human, it would've taken more time for the nanobots to convert the Doctor's body. That and the emotions of a time lord can be very different than that of a human being as well.

The Doctor loves himself far more than Amy loves Rory and Rory loves Amy?


Nah, I'm guessing more like a Galifreyan's emotional range is less prone to wild swings than a human's. Wouldn't it be fair to say that Galifreyan's who become Time Lords basically shut out any sensation of emotion, almost like Vulcans in the Star Trek universe?
 
2012-09-01 10:42:44 PM  

CptnSpldng: Gunny Walker: Tellingthem: For the companion thing I can only imagine that the "remember me" part will factor into her story somehow. It just seems like some foreshadowing

Holy Crap! I think you're right. (I'm re-watching the episode and just hit that part.) She says remember and looks right at the camera. The nanobots changed the doctor. She downloads herself to the nanobots in the Doctor and Amy. She is then later re-created from their memories. After all, she is clever enough to pull that off. Maybe she gets a ganger, but changes her name to keep the Doctor from figuring it out. She even helps them escape right into the TARDIS. The Doctor is so cocky, it doesn't even occur to him that he might have gotten help this time.

I can't be staying awake all that long so my comment is made small so that West Coasties can quickly slip past the spoiler.

And there's also the point that from the Doctor's perspective he never sees her face. All he ever sees of her is the chained Dalek form in the last room.


Yeah so i'm thinking that they don't even have to explain that if they do follow our speculation. He wouldn't have to know it was her but we would because she looks the same to us. Kind of a way that we could be in on a secret that the Doctor doesn't know about. It is also possible that it has nothing to with anything...but I doubt that. It just seemed like they were dropping a few too many hints at something larger...
 
2012-09-01 10:43:45 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Now, Daleks are happily turning Humans?


Maybe they wear them. Like a suit. Like the bug in Men In Black.
 
2012-09-01 10:45:10 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: //Also like the new font used in the credits. It's much better than the giant metal looking shiat from the last couple seasons.


The font is fine, I just don't care for the blurry, looking-through-water effect.

So Oswin playing the loud music (actually in her mind) when the Daleks (i.e. her subconscious awareness of her true nature) try to get in at night -- is that the insane Dalek equivalent of sticking one's fingers in one's ears and musically yelling "La la la, I can't hear you."?

That "make them remember you" does not bode well for Amy's survival in a few weeks. She's going to die gloriously like Oswin, taking out a huge force and saving the day, I should think.
 
2012-09-01 10:46:07 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Rwa2play: Dalek Caan's doomed mistress: Rwa2play:
it's more likely that since Galifreyan physiology is different than that of a human, it would've taken more time for the nanobots to convert the Doctor's body. That and the emotions of a time lord can be very different than that of a human being as well.


It's more likely that he can't be converted. Remember that the cyberman can't convert him as well? I'm still betting that they screwed with his head a little, but full conversion is most likely impossible. And, even if so, they would probably deem him unworthy and toss him. He wouldn't make for a very sane Dalek.

Hmmmm, possibly. Cybermen however, rip take out your human parts and replace them with cybernetic bodies. Daleks were evolving and changing humanoid bodies into Dalek bodies; sorta like the Silurians IIRC.

Haven't your hardcore fundie Daleks always had a problem with Humans tainting their purity?

IIRC, there was a Dalek vs. Humagg....er... Hybrid Dalek thing in the last couple Dalek serials in the classic series, and I think it was referenced in the current series (The Manhattan episode?)

Now, Daleks are happily turning Humans?


My guess was that was why the Daleks wanted to blow up the planet:
1) Daleks on the planet are the crazy/scary corrupt
2) Daleks on the ship are the "hardcore"
3) Daleks on the planet convert humans
4) Daleks on the ship think "OH F NO" we gotta end this
 
2012-09-01 10:46:08 PM  

Gunny Walker: FirstNationalBastard: Now, Daleks are happily turning Humans?

Maybe they wear them. Like a suit. Like the bug in Men In Black.


Great, now we get a Vincent D'Onofrio Dalek.

We won't know if he'll shoot his Dalek Drill Instructor or be the offbeat Sherlock Holmes type that alternates serials with Chris Noth Dalek.
 
2012-09-01 10:47:31 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: That "make them remember you" does not bode well for Amy's survival in a few weeks. She's going to die gloriously like Oswin, taking out a huge force and saving the day, I should think.


This bodes well for my "Rory would make a great villain in season 9/10 (i.e. you find out at the end of 9 he's pulling the strings, 10 is trying to stop him". Rory's motivation would simply be, he's seen how the Doctor ruins lives and wants to prevent others from being him.
 
2012-09-01 10:48:40 PM  

TheManofPA: HopScotchNSoda: That "make them remember you" does not bode well for Amy's survival in a few weeks. She's going to die gloriously like Oswin, taking out a huge force and saving the day, I should think.

This bodes well for my "Rory would make a great villain in season 9/10 (i.e. you find out at the end of 9 he's pulling the strings, 10 is trying to stop him". Rory's motivation would simply be, he's seen how the Doctor ruins lives and wants to prevent others from being him.


Well, as long as he's manipulated into being the bad guy by a twisted, scarred Adric...
 
2012-09-01 10:49:54 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: TheManofPA: HopScotchNSoda: That "make them remember you" does not bode well for Amy's survival in a few weeks. She's going to die gloriously like Oswin, taking out a huge force and saving the day, I should think.

This bodes well for my "Rory would make a great villain in season 9/10 (i.e. you find out at the end of 9 he's pulling the strings, 10 is trying to stop him". Rory's motivation would simply be, he's seen how the Doctor ruins lives and wants to prevent others from being him.

Well, as long as he's manipulated into being the bad guy by a twisted, scarred Adric...


That would be too glorious for American TV to ever air. I survived Doctor.....on my own charred flesh...I survived.
 
2012-09-01 10:50:21 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Gunny Walker: FirstNationalBastard: Now, Daleks are happily turning Humans?
Maybe they wear them. Like a suit. Like the bug in Men In Black.

Great, now we get a Vincent D'Onofrio Dalek.
We won't know if he'll shoot his Dalek Drill Instructor or be the offbeat Sherlock Holmes type that alternates serials with Chris Noth Dalek.


Turning his eye-stalk sideways while questioning you.
 
2012-09-01 10:50:53 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Rwa2play: Nefarious: TheManofPA: Soooo that was sheer awesome.

The Doctor's new companion is a Dalek?

Different name so probably not, she was awesome though.

Yeah, if that's gonna be her personality when she's formally introduced, she's gonna be awesome*

* -- Kinda really cute too.

As long as she doesn't want spiny time lord cock invading her,


Brah, that was Russell Davies' MO with this show; thankfully Moffat doesn't have it in him...I think.

or become the focal point of the entire universe (and show)

Well, at least you hope she doesn't take the matrix of the TARDIS into her.

... yeah. If this is the way the new companion is going to be, I like her. She has a sort of an Ace vibe, except with tech instead of explosives.

True; unless they completely change her personality. She's sorta one part Ace, one part Donna Noble.

/And did BBCA hear the year of biatching and fix some of their problems? No extra intros, only three commercial breaks (which can be easily skipped if you DVR the show and start watching at around 15 past the hour)...
//Also like the new font used in the credits. It's much better than the giant metal looking shiat from the last couple seasons.

Did like the new font...still am "meh" with the updated theme. Will always have a soft spot for this version; not too over the top and remaining somewhat faithful to the original theme.
 
2012-09-01 10:51:03 PM  

Tellingthem: CptnSpldng: Gunny Walker: Tellingthem: For the companion thing I can only imagine that the "remember me" part will factor into her story somehow. It just seems like some foreshadowing

Holy Crap! I think you're right. (I'm re-watching the episode and just hit that part.) She says remember and looks right at the camera. The nanobots changed the doctor. She downloads herself to the nanobots in the Doctor and Amy. She is then later re-created from their memories. After all, she is clever enough to pull that off. Maybe she gets a ganger, but changes her name to keep the Doctor from figuring it out. She even helps them escape right into the TARDIS. The Doctor is so cocky, it doesn't even occur to him that he might have gotten help this time.

I can't be staying awake all that long so my comment is made small so that West Coasties can quickly slip past the spoiler.

And there's also the point that from the Doctor's perspective he never sees her face. All he ever sees of her is the chained Dalek form in the last room.

Yeah so i'm thinking that they don't even have to explain that if they do follow our speculation. He wouldn't have to know it was her but we would because she looks the same to us. Kind of a way that we could be in on a secret that the Doctor doesn't know about. It is also possible that it has nothing to with anything...but I doubt that. It just seemed like they were dropping a few too many hints at something larger...


There was an awful lot of referencing "remembering" in this episode for the idea to not be important. And with the line at the beginning where the doctor tells Amy to make the daleks remember her, and Oswin telling the doctor to remember her, there's definitely something fishy going on (and there is no custard involved, I think). don't really think it would be acceptable for most of the audience to just pretend that it wasn't the same person becoming the companion as was inside that dalek. Sure, the Doctor would have to go on the voice with no idea what she looked like, but I would be pissed if they tried to pretend there was no connection. Odd, though, how many times that the show has focused on memory/remembering of late, with the Silence and the crack both affecting memory...
 
2012-09-01 10:51:49 PM  

TheManofPA: FirstNationalBastard: TheManofPA: HopScotchNSoda: That "make them remember you" does not bode well for Amy's survival in a few weeks. She's going to die gloriously like Oswin, taking out a huge force and saving the day, I should think.

This bodes well for my "Rory would make a great villain in season 9/10 (i.e. you find out at the end of 9 he's pulling the strings, 10 is trying to stop him". Rory's motivation would simply be, he's seen how the Doctor ruins lives and wants to prevent others from being him.

Well, as long as he's manipulated into being the bad guy by a twisted, scarred Adric...

That would be too glorious for American TV to ever air. I survived Doctor.....on my own charred flesh...I survived.


I will not give up on wanting Adric to turn out to be a mangled, deformed, big bad villain at some point. We never saw a body, dammit!

/plus, we get to see Adric die again!
 
2012-09-01 10:52:52 PM  

TheManofPA: 3) Daleks on the planet convert humans


There was the red headed human shaped Dalek on the planet and ship that captured the Doctor. And there were more on the ship that shoved them into the beam. So, it's not just restricted to the the planet.
 
2012-09-01 10:53:04 PM  
Boring episode. Predictable from 17 mins in.

/I still dislike Matt Smith
 
2012-09-01 10:55:29 PM  

Gunny Walker: TheManofPA: 3) Daleks on the planet convert humans

There was the red headed human shaped Dalek on the planet and ship that captured the Doctor. And there were more on the ship that shoved them into the beam. So, it's not just restricted to the the planet.


They're not really Daleks though, are they?

They seemed to be just basic probes or droids, not full fledged Daleks.
 
2012-09-01 10:56:20 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Rwa2play: Dalek Caan's doomed mistress: Rwa2play:
it's more likely that since Galifreyan physiology is different than that of a human, it would've taken more time for the nanobots to convert the Doctor's body. That and the emotions of a time lord can be very different than that of a human being as well.


It's more likely that he can't be converted. Remember that the cyberman can't convert him as well? I'm still betting that they screwed with his head a little, but full conversion is most likely impossible. And, even if so, they would probably deem him unworthy and toss him. He wouldn't make for a very sane Dalek.

Hmmmm, possibly. Cybermen however, rip take out your human parts and replace them with cybernetic bodies. Daleks were evolving and changing humanoid bodies into Dalek bodies; sorta like the Silurians IIRC.

Haven't your hardcore fundie Daleks always had a problem with Humans tainting their purity?


Yeah they have; but I guess they figured out a way to "cauterize" human emotion ala the Cybermen when they change them into Daleks.

IIRC, there was a Dalek vs. Humagg....er... Hybrid Dalek thing in the last couple Dalek serials in the classic series, and I think it was referenced in the current series (The Manhattan episode?)

Now, Daleks are happily turning Humans?

Possibly this was due to their evolution in "Victory of the Daleks."
 
2012-09-01 10:57:00 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: TheManofPA: HopScotchNSoda: That "make them remember you" does not bode well for Amy's survival in a few weeks. She's going to die gloriously like Oswin, taking out a huge force and saving the day, I should think.

This bodes well for my "Rory would make a great villain in season 9/10 (i.e. you find out at the end of 9 he's pulling the strings, 10 is trying to stop him". Rory's motivation would simply be, he's seen how the Doctor ruins lives and wants to prevent others from being him.

Well, as long as he's manipulated into being the bad guy by a twisted, scarred Adric...


Rory doesn't have to go as far as Adric. His daughter's academic advisor, Professor Candy, would do just fine. That's been the driving force of his work for much of his career. Hell, for that matter, the people who kidnapped and reared his daughter could do that too.
 
2012-09-01 10:59:06 PM  

Gunny Walker: TheManofPA: 3) Daleks on the planet convert humans

There was the red headed human shaped Dalek on the planet and ship that captured the Doctor. And there were more on the ship that shoved them into the beam. So, it's not just restricted to the the planet.


Well, crap that's a botch on my part and knocks out my explanation.

FirstNationalBastard: I will not give up on wanting Adric to turn out to be a mangled, deformed, big bad villain at some point. We never saw a body, dammit!

/plus, we get to see Adric die again!


Waterhouse is 50s now so it would work to have him as an old scarred, destroyed mentor to Rory the glorious warrior villain. Heck, you could have season 9 keep going against the Doctor only to find out Rory is pulling the strings, then at the mid-point climax of 10 find out that the Doctor has to face his failures in Rory and Adric
 
2012-09-01 10:59:10 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: They seemed to be just basic probes or droids, not full fledged Daleks.


The redhead popped an eyestalk out of her forehead and a laser (stalk?) out of her hand.
 
2012-09-01 11:00:36 PM  
So, that red head in the start of the episode...Thal???
 
2012-09-01 11:01:48 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Gunny Walker: TheManofPA: 3) Daleks on the planet convert humans

There was the red headed human shaped Dalek on the planet and ship that captured the Doctor. And there were more on the ship that shoved them into the beam. So, it's not just restricted to the the planet.

They're not really Daleks though, are they?

They seemed to be just basic probes or droids, not full fledged Daleks.


Exactly. That is why they supposedly turned her into a Dalek instead of just another "droid" because of her brain. I also get the feeling that she was their true target all along. She was the only one we saw locked in her own room. And if she could hack into the network and change the Daleks memories at will then she is their most dangerous enemy...
 
2012-09-01 11:02:01 PM  

Gunny Walker: FirstNationalBastard: They seemed to be just basic probes or droids, not full fledged Daleks.

The redhead popped an eyestalk out of her forehead and a laser (stalk?) out of her hand.


Yeah, they have the stalk and the weapons, but they don't have a Dalek inside of them. They've been turned into mindless droids.

The one full Human-Dalek we saw was New Companion.
 
2012-09-01 11:02:23 PM  
I tried to watch for some Dalek examples but did not see. Did anyone spot WWII British Army Daleks or any of the ones from Terry Nation's private collection?
i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2012-09-01 11:03:28 PM  
A) Man, I missed DW threads/episodes
B) The best moment of the episode was the Doctor adjusting his tie
 
2012-09-01 11:04:08 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: I tried to watch for some Dalek examples but did not see. Did anyone spot WWII British Army Daleks or any of the ones from Terry Nation's private collection?
[i.dailymail.co.uk image 634x367]


Silver with blue eggs was in the Asylum. No red head, though.

A couple red headed Daleks were in the Parliament chamber.
 
2012-09-01 11:05:47 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Yeah, they have the stalk and the weapons, but they don't have a Dalek inside of them.


How do you know they don't have a Dalek inside them?
 
2012-09-01 11:08:13 PM  

Gunny Walker: FirstNationalBastard: Yeah, they have the stalk and the weapons, but they don't have a Dalek inside of them.

How do you know they don't have a Dalek inside them?


Okay, look at the skeletons from the escape pod on the planet. They had the stalks and little shooty thing, but do you think that they would put a Dalek into a failing, nearly dead body?

They (and Drones like the redhead that brought the Doctor to Skaro) are most likely controlled by the hive mind that now exists.
 
2012-09-01 11:08:44 PM  

Gunny Walker: FirstNationalBastard: Yeah, they have the stalk and the weapons, but they don't have a Dalek inside of them.

How do you know they don't have a Dalek inside them?


because of the nano bots. The skeletons in the spaceship were also droids and they could not have had daleks living inside of them.
 
2012-09-01 11:10:48 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: Time Traveling Bunnies: Has anyone figured out yet why the Doctor quietly told Amy in the Dalek ship to "make them remember you" or am I reading too much into it?

Oh, damn, I forgot that.


FIGHT THEM. REMEMBER!
 
2012-09-01 11:11:53 PM  

TheManofPA: A) Man, I missed DW threads/episodes
B) The best moment of the episode was the Doctor adjusting his tie


I'm sorry but...they BETTER have a two-hour 50th Anniversary episode. That's right, two hours; has to be two hours, it's your 50th Anniversary dammit! You better make a movie-length episode that's have fans begging for more.
 
2012-09-01 11:12:15 PM  

Gunny Walker: FirstNationalBastard: Yeah, they have the stalk and the weapons, but they don't have a Dalek inside of them.

How do you know they don't have a Dalek inside them?


Have a little Dalek in you?
Want some?

/make your own plunger/abortion jokes if you want a window seat
 
2012-09-01 11:13:32 PM  
Oswin's choice of music was appropriate. The lyrics of "Toreador Song" tie in to the episode quite nicely.
 
2012-09-01 11:13:52 PM  
Fun episode. Interested to see where this all goes. More interested in seeing how they dispatch Amy and perform the transition, though I'm guessing we won't see that until the second bank of episodes, which stinks. Episode will probably be more interesting to rewatch after another season or two goes by, much like the Library episode is more interesting now.
 
2012-09-01 11:15:15 PM  

Lost Thought 00: Fun episode. Interested to see where this all goes. More interested in seeing how they dispatch Amy and perform the transition, though I'm guessing we won't see that until the second bank of episodes, which stinks. Episode will probably be more interesting to rewatch after another season or two goes by, much like the Library episode is more interesting now.


Okay, question: Is River going to be so popular that the writers will have to retcon her death? IOW, someone gives *her* all her regenerations back?
 
2012-09-01 11:15:40 PM  
That episode made me sad when she remembered what happened to her after the crash, which is hard since I don't have a soul.

Other then that I was a real solid episode, I think I like these stand-alone episodes more then the arching ones, i hope there's more like this.

I will add that Matt is starting to look kinda old which is scary since he's only 30, I hope that's just the BBC makeup departments doing.
 
2012-09-01 11:16:45 PM  

Tellingthem: Gunny Walker: FirstNationalBastard: Yeah, they have the stalk and the weapons, but they don't have a Dalek inside of them.

How do you know they don't have a Dalek inside them?

because of the nano bots. The skeletons in the spaceship were also droids and they could not have had daleks living inside of them.


Woah dude, thank you for the TF. I've never had this thing before, this could go very bad for my productivity. That is pure awesome. Thank you
 
2012-09-01 11:19:28 PM  

TheManofPA: Tellingthem: Gunny Walker: FirstNationalBastard: Yeah, they have the stalk and the weapons, but they don't have a Dalek inside of them.

How do you know they don't have a Dalek inside them?

because of the nano bots. The skeletons in the spaceship were also droids and they could not have had daleks living inside of them.

Woah dude, thank you for the TF. I've never had this thing before, this could go very bad for my productivity. That is pure awesome. Thank you


Glad i got to pop your cherry...haha

\you are welcome
 
2012-09-01 11:20:36 PM  

Lost Thought 00: Fun episode. Interested to see where this all goes. More interested in seeing how they dispatch Amy and perform the transition, though I'm guessing we won't see that until the second bank of episodes, which stinks. Episode will probably be more interesting to rewatch after another season or two goes by, much like the Library episode is more interesting now.


As I understand it, Amy and Rory leave at the end of this first batch, and River will appear in that episode. Then Oswin's cousin or sister or clone or whatever she's supposed to be will start her companionship in the Christmas episode with Madame Vastra, Jenny, Vastra's new butler Strax -- and that will be a two-parter, and those guests will continue on to the episode thereafter.

From the trailer, it looks like next week's episode will feature that fellow against whom the Doctor played death-chess in "The Wedding of River Song".
 
2012-09-01 11:20:40 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Okay, look at the skeletons from the escape pod on the planet. They had the stalks and little shooty thing, but do you think that they would put a Dalek into a failing, nearly dead body?

They (and Drones like the redhead that brought the Doctor to Skaro) are most likely controlled by the hive mind that now exists.


Sure, they'd do it. It works as camouflage. I'd image the nanobots just hollow out the corpses enough to get a Dalek inside. The corpses weren't just skeletons. They still had a lot of meat on them.
 
2012-09-01 11:21:03 PM  

Tellingthem: FirstNationalBastard: Gunny Walker: TheManofPA: 3) Daleks on the planet convert humans

There was the red headed human shaped Dalek on the planet and ship that captured the Doctor. And there were more on the ship that shoved them into the beam. So, it's not just restricted to the the planet.

They're not really Daleks though, are they?

They seemed to be just basic probes or droids, not full fledged Daleks.

Exactly. That is why they supposedly turned her into a Dalek instead of just another "droid" because of her brain. I also get the feeling that she was their true target all along. She was the only one we saw locked in her own room. And if she could hack into the network and change the Daleks memories at will then she is their most dangerous enemy...


Yep.

I kinda saw that she was a Dalek early on, and the Rory/Amy "I didn't leave you" dialogue was a bit too much (I hate it when characters explain something that as characters they damn well know, obviously for the viewer, blah blah). But on the whole it kicked ass. Very happy.

I figured "remember me" was foreshadowing... but IIRC she said at one point that that trip was her first chance to "see the world"? I don't know all the rules and whatnot as much as long time fans, but if the Doctor ran into her before that and picked her up wouldn't that oh I don't know whatever.
 
2012-09-01 11:23:58 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: Lost Thought 00: Fun episode. Interested to see where this all goes. More interested in seeing how they dispatch Amy and perform the transition, though I'm guessing we won't see that until the second bank of episodes, which stinks. Episode will probably be more interesting to rewatch after another season or two goes by, much like the Library episode is more interesting now.

As I understand it, Amy and Rory leave at the end of this first batch, and River will appear in that episode. Then Oswin's cousin or sister or clone or whatever she's supposed to be will start her companionship in the Christmas episode with Madame Vastra, Jenny, Vastra's new butler Strax -- and that will be a two-parter, and those guests will continue on to the episode thereafter.

From the trailer, it looks like next week's episode will feature that fellow against whom the Doctor played death-chess in "The Wedding of River Song".


Yeah, but that guy died; so this maybe is an eariler version of him?
 
2012-09-01 11:24:15 PM  
They never did properly resolve the Amy/nanobots storyline, so I'm fully expecting her to pop an eyestalk at some convenient time about 4 episodes from now. Maybe she keeps her mind and saves the day, maybe the Doctor or River has to kill her
 
2012-09-01 11:24:55 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: and that will be a two-parter, and those guests will continue on to the episode thereafter.


Sorry, that was clumsy editing. I changed my wording but didn't delete the old. I did not mean to say that our favourite upper class Victorian household would have a three-episode arc, just two.
 
2012-09-01 11:28:20 PM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Tellingthem: FirstNationalBastard: Gunny Walker: TheManofPA: 3) Daleks on the planet convert humans

There was the red headed human shaped Dalek on the planet and ship that captured the Doctor. And there were more on the ship that shoved them into the beam. So, it's not just restricted to the the planet.

They're not really Daleks though, are they?

They seemed to be just basic probes or droids, not full fledged Daleks.

Exactly. That is why they supposedly turned her into a Dalek instead of just another "droid" because of her brain. I also get the feeling that she was their true target all along. She was the only one we saw locked in her own room. And if she could hack into the network and change the Daleks memories at will then she is their most dangerous enemy...

Yep.

I kinda saw that she was a Dalek early on, and the Rory/Amy "I didn't leave you" dialogue was a bit too much (I hate it when characters explain something that as characters they damn well know, obviously for the viewer, blah blah). But on the whole it kicked ass. Very happy.

I figured "remember me" was foreshadowing... but IIRC she said at one point that that trip was her first chance to "see the world"? I don't know all the rules and whatnot as much as long time fans, but if the Doctor ran into her before that and picked her up wouldn't that oh I don't know whatever.


Yeah but that whole thing seems fishy. A young girl on her first trip into outerspace can hack into the entire Dalek network? Which is something the Doctor said he couldn't even do. It just seems like she isn't what she says she is...beyond the whole turned into a dalek thing.
 
2012-09-01 11:30:22 PM  

Tellingthem: StreetlightInTheGhetto: Tellingthem: FirstNationalBastard: Gunny Walker: TheManofPA: 3) Daleks on the planet convert humans

There was the red headed human shaped Dalek on the planet and ship that captured the Doctor. And there were more on the ship that shoved them into the beam. So, it's not just restricted to the the planet.

They're not really Daleks though, are they?

They seemed to be just basic probes or droids, not full fledged Daleks.

Exactly. That is why they supposedly turned her into a Dalek instead of just another "droid" because of her brain. I also get the feeling that she was their true target all along. She was the only one we saw locked in her own room. And if she could hack into the network and change the Daleks memories at will then she is their most dangerous enemy...

Yep.

I kinda saw that she was a Dalek early on, and the Rory/Amy "I didn't leave you" dialogue was a bit too much (I hate it when characters explain something that as characters they damn well know, obviously for the viewer, blah blah). But on the whole it kicked ass. Very happy.

I figured "remember me" was foreshadowing... but IIRC she said at one point that that trip was her first chance to "see the world"? I don't know all the rules and whatnot as much as long time fans, but if the Doctor ran into her before that and picked her up wouldn't that oh I don't know whatever.

Yeah but that whole thing seems fishy. A young girl on her first trip into outerspace can hack into the entire Dalek network? Which is something the Doctor said he couldn't even do. It just seems like she isn't what she says she is...beyond the whole turned into a dalek thing.


Could be that she was just a genius overall (no extra parts at this point). You could explain that the reason she could do all those crazy things was that the Daleks actually were stupid enough to tap her right into the hivemind.
 
2012-09-01 11:32:05 PM  

Rwa2play: From the trailer, it looks like next week's episode will feature that fellow against whom the Doctor played death-chess in "The Wedding of River Song".

Yeah, but that guy died; so this maybe is an eariler version of him?


No, no, no more damn earlier versions. It's lost its novelty and is now just tired schtick, Maybe it's his brother, or his people all look alike like Sontaran clones.
 
2012-09-01 11:34:58 PM  

TheManofPA: Tellingthem: StreetlightInTheGhetto: Tellingthem: FirstNationalBastard: Gunny Walker: TheManofPA: 3) Daleks on the planet convert humans

There was the red headed human shaped Dalek on the planet and ship that captured the Doctor. And there were more on the ship that shoved them into the beam. So, it's not just restricted to the the planet.

They're not really Daleks though, are they?

They seemed to be just basic probes or droids, not full fledged Daleks.

Exactly. That is why they supposedly turned her into a Dalek instead of just another "droid" because of her brain. I also get the feeling that she was their true target all along. She was the only one we saw locked in her own room. And if she could hack into the network and change the Daleks memories at will then she is their most dangerous enemy...

Yep.

I kinda saw that she was a Dalek early on, and the Rory/Amy "I didn't leave you" dialogue was a bit too much (I hate it when characters explain something that as characters they damn well know, obviously for the viewer, blah blah). But on the whole it kicked ass. Very happy.

I figured "remember me" was foreshadowing... but IIRC she said at one point that that trip was her first chance to "see the world"? I don't know all the rules and whatnot as much as long time fans, but if the Doctor ran into her before that and picked her up wouldn't that oh I don't know whatever.

Yeah but that whole thing seems fishy. A young girl on her first trip into outerspace can hack into the entire Dalek network? Which is something the Doctor said he couldn't even do. It just seems like she isn't what she says she is...beyond the whole turned into a dalek thing.

Could be that she was just a genius overall (no extra parts at this point). You could explain that the reason she could do all those crazy things was that the Daleks actually were stupid enough to tap her right into the hivemind.


Possible...also that she figured it out after toying with it for the year she was there. (she claims...could have been longer). I just watched it again and there is just something about the whole thing that just seemed off. Ahh maybe i'm just looking for things now....
 
2012-09-01 11:35:58 PM  
*bursts in to thread*

youoffendmeyouoffendmyfamily.com

NEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDDDDDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!

*dashes out*
 
2012-09-01 11:38:28 PM  

Lost Thought 00: They never did properly resolve the Amy/nanobots storyline, so I'm fully expecting her to pop an eyestalk at some convenient time about 4 episodes from now. Maybe she keeps her mind and saves the day, maybe the Doctor or River has to kill her


I'm guessing with her wearing that arm band, the nano-conversion was halted. Since there are no more Dalek episodes for the remainder of the season between now and the departure of the Ponds and no other mention of the conversion, I think that threat might be done for. Also remember, Moffit wants this series to be more episodic with no long lasting story arcs, so keeping the Dalek nano-virus inside Amy would go against the idea of episodic series.
 
2012-09-01 11:41:05 PM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Tellingthem: FirstNationalBastard: Gunny Walker: TheManofPA: 3) Daleks on the planet convert humans

There was the red headed human shaped Dalek on the planet and ship that captured the Doctor. And there were more on the ship that shoved them into the beam. So, it's not just restricted to the the planet.

They're not really Daleks though, are they?

They seemed to be just basic probes or droids, not full fledged Daleks.

Exactly. That is why they supposedly turned her into a Dalek instead of just another "droid" because of her brain. I also get the feeling that she was their true target all along. She was the only one we saw locked in her own room. And if she could hack into the network and change the Daleks memories at will then she is their most dangerous enemy...

Yep.

I kinda saw that she was a Dalek early on, and the Rory/Amy "I didn't leave you" dialogue was a bit too much (I hate it when characters explain something that as characters they damn well know, obviously for the viewer, blah blah). But on the whole it kicked ass. Very happy.

I figured "remember me" was foreshadowing... but IIRC she said at one point that that trip was her first chance to "see the world"? I don't know all the rules and whatnot as much as long time fans, but if the Doctor ran into her before that and picked her up wouldn't that oh I don't know whatever.


Yeah, you're right that she said that got stuck in a ship wreck on her first trip out to see the stars, and then tells the Doctor to rescue her. Of course, she could mean a different ship wreck and just be incredibly unlucky and not someone you would want to be anywhere near on any vehicle traveling the stars at all, but that does not seem like a good explanation, given the wording. Could be the loophole used, though, if Moffat does use the character in that way, such that past her goes traveling with the Doctor, and this is the end for the companion. But I would hope that he wouldn't use that plot line again so soon.

I just don't see them using this actress in this spot and it not having any significance. Why not just get another actress? The question really is what the significance might be as well as where they are going with all of this remembering things. I really don't think that they can do this with the nod and a wink like with either Gwen from Torchwood being the same as Gwyneth, or Martha, mostly because the Doctor didn't see her at all, so it seems less likely that he would catch on quickly to a similarity merely in voice and some mannerisms/personality to then dismiss it as genetic quirks.
 
2012-09-01 11:41:41 PM  

Tellingthem: Yeah but that whole thing seems fishy. A young girl on her first trip into outerspace can hack into the entire Dalek network? Which is something the Doctor said he couldn't even do. It just seems like she isn't what she says she is...beyond the whole turned into a dalek thing.


She was a genius, and had a full year.

Plus, it was probably a lot easier to hack into the damaged Daleks than regular ones.
 
2012-09-01 11:44:10 PM  

Great Janitor: Lost Thought 00: They never did properly resolve the Amy/nanobots storyline, so I'm fully expecting her to pop an eyestalk at some convenient time about 4 episodes from now. Maybe she keeps her mind and saves the day, maybe the Doctor or River has to kill her

I'm guessing with her wearing that arm band, the nano-conversion was halted. Since there are no more Dalek episodes for the remainder of the season between now and the departure of the Ponds and no other mention of the conversion, I think that threat might be done for. Also remember, Moffit wants this series to be more episodic with no long lasting story arcs, so keeping the Dalek nano-virus inside Amy would go against the idea of episodic series.


Rule 1?
 
2012-09-01 11:45:33 PM  

Tellingthem: Possible...also that she figured it out after toying with it for the year she was there. (she claims...could have been longer). I just watched it again and there is just something about the whole thing that just seemed off. Ahh maybe i'm just looking for things now....


It's Doctor Who. I'm not certain you can over analyze things since ANYTHING can be important. It wan't until six months ago that I noticed that when the giant-spider-Christmas-star was shot, you hear a voice that says, "Orders from Mr Saxon: fire at will!" (The Runaway Bride) In this episode, they show a music box with a ballerina in Oswin's room and later Amy sees all those mystery people and one of them is a ballerina.

/Also, thanks!
 
2012-09-01 11:46:13 PM  

Tellingthem: TheManofPA: Tellingthem: StreetlightInTheGhetto: Tellingthem: FirstNationalBastard: Gunny Walker: TheManofPA: 3) Daleks on the planet convert humans

There was the red headed human shaped Dalek on the planet and ship that captured the Doctor. And there were more on the ship that shoved them into the beam. So, it's not just restricted to the the planet.

They're not really Daleks though, are they?

They seemed to be just basic probes or droids, not full fledged Daleks.

Exactly. That is why they supposedly turned her into a Dalek instead of just another "droid" because of her brain. I also get the feeling that she was their true target all along. She was the only one we saw locked in her own room. And if she could hack into the network and change the Daleks memories at will then she is their most dangerous enemy...

Yep.

I kinda saw that she was a Dalek early on, and the Rory/Amy "I didn't leave you" dialogue was a bit too much (I hate it when characters explain something that as characters they damn well know, obviously for the viewer, blah blah). But on the whole it kicked ass. Very happy.

I figured "remember me" was foreshadowing... but IIRC she said at one point that that trip was her first chance to "see the world"? I don't know all the rules and whatnot as much as long time fans, but if the Doctor ran into her before that and picked her up wouldn't that oh I don't know whatever.

Yeah but that whole thing seems fishy. A young girl on her first trip into outerspace can hack into the entire Dalek network? Which is something the Doctor said he couldn't even do. It just seems like she isn't what she says she is...beyond the whole turned into a dalek thing.

Could be that she was just a genius overall (no extra parts at this point). You could explain that the reason she could do all those crazy things was that the Daleks actually were stupid enough to tap her right into the hivemind.

Possible...also that she figured it out after toying with it for the year sh ...


I've seen the episode twice. First time, as soon as the Doctor asked about the milk I knew this was a one episode character. I was hoping for the Star Trek answer of a replicator (come on, there was the teleporter and the Doctor mentioned beaming himself to the Dalek ship and planet Vulcan, so expecting a replicator wasn't too much to expect). That question never getting answered was the red flag. Though I was asking early on why she wasn't converted even when her ship mates were.

Second time around I noticed more, especially since I was looking for clues. The map is a give away. When she sends the Doctor the map of how to find her and you see it, she appears on the screen as a Dalek. Also, the map is of asylum corridors and not a crashed space ship. The ease at which she hacks the Dalek systems has to be the biggest clue.
 
2012-09-01 11:46:18 PM  
*rubs forehead* I remember when this series used to be enjoyable. Now the only enjoyment I get out of it is sitting with my friends and making fun of it and pointing out how terribly it's written.

-- "Tell, don't show": Much like River's relationship with the Doctor, and Amy's feelings for Rory, now we have the Pond relationship drama that is explained away with "stuff happened while you were gone". Characters rarely get the chance to display or build their relationships onscreen, anything that happens between them is waved off as happening offscreen, because character-building has become so goddamn unimportant in this series.

-- "Where did you get the milk?": This planet is protected by A SHIELD. Nothing can get in or out of it, because it has A SHIELD. By the way, a ship crash-landed on the surface of the planet a year ago. Did we mention this planet has A SHIELD?

-- "Asylum of the Daleks": Where all the Daleks act just like normal Daleks, but don't really work as well and talk funny. This could have been an awesome opportunity to see some mentally-deranged Daleks akin to Dalek Caan, but there was nothing really notable about the denizens of this planet.

-- "I can't have babies, so I kicked you out": Amy Pond is a biatch.

-- "Moffat Female, Type II": There are two female character templates that Steven Moffat knows how to write: The one who follows the male lead around like a puppy and wants into his pants, like Amy Pond or Molly Hooper, and the one who is "strong and independent" and manages to outwit the male lead for a while, but is ultimately bested by the him and wants into his pants, like River Song and Irene Adler, and now apparently Oswin. Either way, he's just so damn virile that every woman who sees him wants him.

-- "The Doctor needs companions": Have Amy and Rory EVER done anything remotely useful to the plot? Seems like all they do is get caught in a situation and run around being scared by it to kill time until the Doctor solves it for them. The reason the Daleks gave for kidnapping them was insanely weak and their entire presence in this episode felt shoehorned in. It's just, "Well, Amy and Rory are the companions and they need to be there, but the Doctor's so amazingly awesome and competent on his own, hell if I can think of anything for them to do."

-- "Squirrel!": This, and most Moffat episodes as of late, feels like it was written by someone with ADD, but that might just be BBCA's editing. I'll have to check the BBC1 version tomorrow. What was even the POINT of giving the Ponds relationship troubles if that trouble never really played into any part of the episode, all of the troubles happened offscreen, and it was all fixed in a 30-second conversation? This is like River Song being Mels, it's just "Ooh, look at this shiny plot thing" that serves absolutely no purpose.

All in all, 2/10. The twist about Oswin at the end was clever and kind of cool, but wasn't nearly enough to save it from everything else.
 
2012-09-01 11:47:01 PM  

Coelacanth: Morons on Tumblr have already given away details about the Doctor's new companion...sheesh.


OMG, people are talking about stuff that already happened on the internet! The nerve!
 
2012-09-01 11:49:00 PM  

Lost Thought 00: They never did properly resolve the Amy/nanobots storyline, so I'm fully expecting her to pop an eyestalk at some convenient time about 4 episodes from now. Maybe she keeps her mind and saves the day, maybe the Doctor or River has to kill her


I found it odd that they spent so much time focusing on her being turned into a dalek droid, and then, poof, they escaped and she is back home again, no problem at all, no mention of any fix. Perhaps just not enough time to even deus ex that away, so it got cut? Or they just forgot to wrap that plot line up? Neither explanation would be all that surprising.

Marine1: *bursts in to thread*

[youoffendmeyouoffendmyfamily.com image 400x353]

NEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDDDDDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!

*dashes out*


Yes, and? :D
 
2012-09-01 11:55:07 PM  

Fast Moon: *rubs forehead* I remember when this series used to be enjoyable. Now the only enjoyment I get out of it is sitting with my friends and making fun of it and pointing out how terribly it's written.


While I don't necessarily agree with you, I do think it's time for BBC to start preparing or looking for someone new for the Doctor Who showrunner role (and a new Doctor).

Give Moffat through the 50th anniversary season, then bundle both him and Smith off to the old Doctor's home.

/Doctor Who needs a shake-up every 4 seasons or so to stay fresh. Remember what happened last time a show runner/producer stayed on board too long.
 
2012-09-01 11:57:26 PM  

Great Janitor: Moffit wants this series to be more episodic with no long lasting story arcs


Good. He had swung too far in the other direction last year. Name-dropping is one thing (e,g., the casual mentions in 2005 of "Torchwood" and "Bad Wolf" as 'background noise' before they became important); but last year was all about who the astronaut was, how the Doctor was going to get out of this death we'd already seen, what the deal was with Schrödinger's foetus, and if River marries the Doctor. It was almost like 1986's series-long serial, Trial of a Time Lord.

For all of the criticisms I can make about Russell T. Davies' episode writing, he was outstanding with so many of the the big-picture aspects, and I think he struck the more-or-less perfect balance with regard to story arcing during his tenure, particularly his first three years. Why he so completely cocked up Torchwood last year, I have no idea.
 
2012-09-02 12:00:40 AM  

HopScotchNSoda:

For all of the criticisms I can make about Russell T. Davies' episode writing, he was outstanding with so many of the the big-picture aspects, and I think he struck the more-or-less perfect balance with regard to story arcing during his tenure, particularly his first three years. Why he so completely cocked up Torchwood last year, I have no idea.


I blame America.

Look at the opening that has (hopefully) disappeared down the Benoit Hole, or the 1996 Doctor Who movie to see just how America farks things up.

/or Life on Mars US. Or The Office after season 3. Or NBC's Coupling.
 
2012-09-02 12:03:12 AM  

Luthien's Tempest: I found it odd that they spent so much time focusing on her being turned into a dalek droid, and then, poof, they escaped and she is back home again, no problem at all, no mention of any fix. Perhaps just not enough time to even deus ex that away, so it got cut? Or they just forgot to wrap that plot line up? Neither explanation would be all that surprising.


The TARDIS heals status effects as soon as you walk into it. Dalek nanobot infestation being a status effect, all you have to do is walk Amy and Rory into the TARDIS and that's that.
 
2012-09-02 12:04:35 AM  
I really didn't like this episode and that makes me sad. I can't even pinpoint what bugged me most.

/Boo hoo.
 
2012-09-02 12:04:38 AM  

Gunny Walker: Tellingthem: Possible...also that she figured it out after toying with it for the year she was there. (she claims...could have been longer). I just watched it again and there is just something about the whole thing that just seemed off. Ahh maybe i'm just looking for things now....

It's Doctor Who. I'm not certain you can over analyze things since ANYTHING can be important. It wan't until six months ago that I noticed that when the giant-spider-Christmas-star was shot, you hear a voice that says, "Orders from Mr Saxon: fire at will!" (The Runaway Bride) In this episode, they show a music box with a ballerina in Oswin's room and later Amy sees all those mystery people and one of them is a ballerina.

/Also, thanks!


Yeah...that is one of things i like about this show. How many little things that they bury into episodes that make sense later. Ahh good stuff!

\you are welcome
 
2012-09-02 12:04:43 AM  

HopScotchNSoda: For all of the criticisms I can make about Russell T. Davies' episode writing, he was outstanding with so many of the the big-picture aspects, and I think he struck the more-or-less perfect balance with regard to story arcing during his tenure, particularly his first three years. Why he so completely cocked up Torchwood last year, I have no idea.


I'm going to go with Starz wanting to Americanize it. Has Starz done anything right?
 
2012-09-02 12:06:41 AM  

dennysgod: I will add that Matt is starting to look kinda old which is scary since he's only 30, I hope that's just the BBC makeup departments doing.


When 900 years old you reach, look as good you will not...
 
2012-09-02 12:08:22 AM  
Finally got the chance to watch the new episode, pretty decent over all.

Like someone else mentioned, I'm wondering what kind of effect the nanobots will have on Amy and how that will play out.

Agree with T3knomanser, the "Doctor, Who?" bit was a bit much.

The chick who's going to become the new companion is quite the hottie, much more so than Amy IMO.

So here's my question. If Oswin deleted everything on the Doctor from the Dalek hive mind, wouldn't they have wondered what they were doing outside of the Asylum? I mean, the whole reason they were there was because of the plan they cooked up to use the Doctor to take out the shield. No Doctor, no plan.

Wouldn't they be sitting there wondering WTF this blue box in their ship was?
 
2012-09-02 12:08:47 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: HopScotchNSoda:

For all of the criticisms I can make about Russell T. Davies' episode writing, he was outstanding with so many of the the big-picture aspects, and I think he struck the more-or-less perfect balance with regard to story arcing during his tenure, particularly his first three years. Why he so completely cocked up Torchwood last year, I have no idea.

I blame America.

Look at the opening that has (hopefully) disappeared down the Benoit Hole, or the 1996 Doctor Who movie to see just how America farks things up.

/or Life on Mars US. Or The Office after season 3. Or NBC's Coupling.


Or the craptastic that will come with CBS' "Elementary." Lord almighty, they should've put this title instead: "The crappier Hollywood version of BBC's 'Sherlock'".
 
2012-09-02 12:10:12 AM  

A_Listless_Wanderer: dennysgod: I will add that Matt is starting to look kinda old which is scary since he's only 30, I hope that's just the BBC makeup departments doing.

When 900 1103 years old you reach, look as good you will not...


FTFY
 
2012-09-02 12:10:35 AM  

Great Janitor: Lost Thought 00: They never did properly resolve the Amy/nanobots storyline, so I'm fully expecting her to pop an eyestalk at some convenient time about 4 episodes from now. Maybe she keeps her mind and saves the day, maybe the Doctor or River has to kill her

I'm guessing with her wearing that arm band, the nano-conversion was halted. Since there are no more Dalek episodes for the remainder of the season between now and the departure of the Ponds and no other mention of the conversion, I think that threat might be done for. Also remember, Moffit wants this series to be more episodic with no long lasting story arcs, so keeping the Dalek nano-virus inside Amy would go against the idea of episodic series.


I liked the story arcs dammit! That's what got me hooked on this series after half watching so many others while the SO stole the Netflix. Bah.
 
2012-09-02 12:11:10 AM  

A_Listless_Wanderer: dennysgod: I will add that Matt is starting to look kinda old which is scary since he's only 30, I hope that's just the BBC makeup departments doing.

When 900 years old you reach, look as good you will not...


I just read that in Yoda's voice...aaaaaaaaaaaaand I hate you now.
 
2012-09-02 12:12:07 AM  

TheManofPA: Great Janitor: Lost Thought 00: They never did properly resolve the Amy/nanobots storyline, so I'm fully expecting her to pop an eyestalk at some convenient time about 4 episodes from now. Maybe she keeps her mind and saves the day, maybe the Doctor or River has to kill her

I'm guessing with her wearing that arm band, the nano-conversion was halted. Since there are no more Dalek episodes for the remainder of the season between now and the departure of the Ponds and no other mention of the conversion, I think that threat might be done for. Also remember, Moffit wants this series to be more episodic with no long lasting story arcs, so keeping the Dalek nano-virus inside Amy would go against the idea of episodic series.

Rule 1?


Oh snap.
 
2012-09-02 12:14:52 AM  

Great Janitor: Also remember, Moffit wants this series to be more episodic with no long lasting story arcs, so keeping the Dalek nano-virus inside Amy would go against the idea of episodic series.


As with anything, story arcs are only as good as the person/people who write it. Personally, I didn't have a problem with last season's arc because it didn't stick out too much. Then again, RTD did have that quality of being quite subtle about a long-running story (i.e. "Bad Wolf").
 
2012-09-02 12:15:06 AM  
One thing I didn't quite get-- the Doctor heard whats-her-face's voice. But if she was a Dalek, then wouldn't the voice have been all in her mind and the Doctor would have heard a Dalek's voice?
 
2012-09-02 12:16:23 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Look at the opening that has (hopefully) disappeared down the Benoit Hole, or the 1996 Doctor Who movie to see just how America farks things up.


I presume you are referring to the "When I was a little girl, I had an imaginary friend..." The problem with it was where it was put. People would not have been enraged by it had it come before the cold open -- like those of Torchwood, The Sarah Jane Adventures, Dragnet, Law & Order, Law & Order: SVU, Law & Order: CI, 1970s Battlestar Galactica, and the non-spoken, written one of modern Battlestar Galactica. The Amy speech screwed up the whole pacing. The cold open ends on an exciting or suspenseful moment, and instead of going straight into the rousing, exciting opening credit sequence & music, everything is interrupted by a quiet piano and a woman gently talking about her childhood. A few shows, like Star Trek, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Life on Mars, and Ashes to Ashes worked the narration into the start of the title sequence, but their cold opens were written for that and the theme music started under the narration.
 
2012-09-02 12:18:16 AM  

HopScotchNSoda: FirstNationalBastard: Look at the opening that has (hopefully) disappeared down the Benoit Hole, or the 1996 Doctor Who movie to see just how America farks things up.

I presume you are referring to the "When I was a little girl, I had an imaginary friend..." The problem with it was where it was put. People would not have been enraged by it had it come before the cold open -- like those of Torchwood, The Sarah Jane Adventures, Dragnet, Law & Order, Law & Order: SVU, Law & Order: CI, 1970s Battlestar Galactica, and the non-spoken, written one of modern Battlestar Galactica. The Amy speech screwed up the whole pacing. The cold open ends on an exciting or suspenseful moment, and instead of going straight into the rousing, exciting opening credit sequence & music, everything is interrupted by a quiet piano and a woman gently talking about her childhood. A few shows, like Star Trek, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Life on Mars, and Ashes to Ashes worked the narration into the start of the title sequence, but their cold opens were written for that and the theme music started under the narration.


Yeah this; "Closing Time" sort of killed that. How are you going to have that narrative when she's not even involved in the episode?
 
2012-09-02 12:18:23 AM  

sirbissel: One thing I didn't quite get-- the Doctor heard whats-her-face's voice. But if she was a Dalek, then wouldn't the voice have been all in her mind and the Doctor would have heard a Dalek's voice?


Not necessarily. Remember the transmission the normal Daleks were hearing, the song? I'm going to rationalize the whole thing as the human voice being a radio transmission, then when he met her he heard her real voice. Still doesn't entirely work, I know since the Daleks usually have their robo voice in radio transmission, but it's the only thing I can think of.
 
2012-09-02 12:20:53 AM  

HopScotchNSoda: FirstNationalBastard: Look at the opening that has (hopefully) disappeared down the Benoit Hole, or the 1996 Doctor Who movie to see just how America farks things up.

I presume you are referring to the "When I was a little girl, I had an imaginary friend..." The problem with it was where it was put. People would not have been enraged by it had it come before the cold open -- like those of Torchwood, The Sarah Jane Adventures, Dragnet, Law & Order, Law & Order: SVU, Law & Order: CI, 1970s Battlestar Galactica, and the non-spoken, written one of modern Battlestar Galactica. The Amy speech screwed up the whole pacing. The cold open ends on an exciting or suspenseful moment, and instead of going straight into the rousing, exciting opening credit sequence & music, everything is interrupted by a quiet piano and a woman gently talking about her childhood. A few shows, like Star Trek, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Life on Mars, and Ashes to Ashes worked the narration into the start of the title sequence, but their cold opens were written for that and the theme music started under the narration.


I dunno, both Torchwood and Sarah Jane annoyed me with the "This is the plot of the TV series you're watching!" openings. I think it didn't help, with Doctor Who, that it wasn't on the British version.
 
2012-09-02 12:21:22 AM  

sirbissel: One thing I didn't quite get-- the Doctor heard whats-her-face's voice. But if she was a Dalek, then wouldn't the voice have been all in her mind and the Doctor would have heard a Dalek's voice?


Because using the Dalek voice would have spoiled the suprise for the viewer?
or
Because she disguised it to further fool herself into believing she was human?
 
2012-09-02 12:22:37 AM  

Flint Ironstag: The reveal reminded me of Source Code. But the whole milk thing bugged me. They have replicators in the Whoverse, so why wonder where she got milk from?


Probably ran out of cow's milk ages ago and were working on the emergency supply of dog's milk.

/nothing wrong with dog's milk, full of vitamins and marrowbone jelly
 
2012-09-02 12:22:59 AM  

sirbissel: HopScotchNSoda: FirstNationalBastard: Look at the opening that has (hopefully) disappeared down the Benoit Hole, or the 1996 Doctor Who movie to see just how America farks things up.

I presume you are referring to the "When I was a little girl, I had an imaginary friend..." The problem with it was where it was put. People would not have been enraged by it had it come before the cold open -- like those of Torchwood, The Sarah Jane Adventures, Dragnet, Law & Order, Law & Order: SVU, Law & Order: CI, 1970s Battlestar Galactica, and the non-spoken, written one of modern Battlestar Galactica. The Amy speech screwed up the whole pacing. The cold open ends on an exciting or suspenseful moment, and instead of going straight into the rousing, exciting opening credit sequence & music, everything is interrupted by a quiet piano and a woman gently talking about her childhood. A few shows, like Star Trek, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Life on Mars, and Ashes to Ashes worked the narration into the start of the title sequence, but their cold opens were written for that and the theme music started under the narration.

I dunno, both Torchwood and Sarah Jane annoyed me with the "This is the plot of the TV series you're watching!" openings. I think it didn't help, with Doctor Who, that it wasn't on the British version.


*sigh* Has it really been at least a year or so since Elizabeth Sladen died? Crap.

/how cruel is that
//farking cruel
//I so farking hate Cancer
 
2012-09-02 12:23:22 AM  

rickycal78: sirbissel: One thing I didn't quite get-- the Doctor heard whats-her-face's voice. But if she was a Dalek, then wouldn't the voice have been all in her mind and the Doctor would have heard a Dalek's voice?

Not necessarily. Remember the transmission the normal Daleks were hearing, the song? I'm going to rationalize the whole thing as the human voice being a radio transmission, then when he met her he heard her real voice. Still doesn't entirely work, I know since the Daleks usually have their robo voice in radio transmission, but it's the only thing I can think of.


I'll have to rewatch, but don't you hear the Dalek and Doctor's conversation from inside the white room (not just inside the Dalek's head). I can't honestly remember what the voice sounds like in those scenes.
 
2012-09-02 12:24:28 AM  

Vaneshi: BronyMedic: Rules of the New Doctor Who:
1) The Doctor Lies

The Doctor always lies. That's the thing, it's been true since the Bakers and it's true now... it's just far more obvious (to the viewer at least) that he is in fact lying.


Heck, even the first doctor lied his arse of all the time from the first episode onwards.
 
2012-09-02 12:25:30 AM  

rickycal78: sirbissel: One thing I didn't quite get-- the Doctor heard whats-her-face's voice. But if she was a Dalek, then wouldn't the voice have been all in her mind and the Doctor would have heard a Dalek's voice?

Not necessarily. Remember the transmission the normal Daleks were hearing, the song? I'm going to rationalize the whole thing as the human voice being a radio transmission, then when he met her he heard her real voice. Still doesn't entirely work, I know since the Daleks usually have their robo voice in radio transmission, but it's the only thing I can think of.


I thought the the dalek "voice" came more from the speaker on the mechanical shell versus the actual body inside. Also since she was human it would make sense that her natural voice would be picked up for radio broadcast versus hearing it sent through a speaker...I would also guess though they just overlooked a few things like this to help further the story and the twist ending.
 
2012-09-02 12:25:47 AM  

Gunny Walker: A_Listless_Wanderer: dennysgod: I will add that Matt is starting to look kinda old which is scary since he's only 30, I hope that's just the BBC makeup departments doing.
When 900 1103 years old you reach, look as good you will not...FTFY


Meh, his father-in-law is nearly twice that old. So is Jack, on whom age definitely is starting to make a significant impact.


TheManofPA: I'm going to go with Starz wanting to Americanize it. Has Starz done anything right?


I've heard nothing but good things about Boss, but have not seen it myself.
 
2012-09-02 12:26:07 AM  

limeyfellow: Vaneshi: BronyMedic: Rules of the New Doctor Who:
1) The Doctor Lies

The Doctor always lies. That's the thing, it's been true since the Bakers and it's true now... it's just far more obvious (to the viewer at least) that he is in fact lying.

Heck, even the first doctor lied his arse of all the time from the first episode onwards.


The first Doctor abducted two schoolteachers for no good reason.

He's always been a bit of a prick.

/they did get eternal youth out of the deal, though.
 
2012-09-02 12:27:36 AM  

TheManofPA: rickycal78: sirbissel: One thing I didn't quite get-- the Doctor heard whats-her-face's voice. But if she was a Dalek, then wouldn't the voice have been all in her mind and the Doctor would have heard a Dalek's voice?

Not necessarily. Remember the transmission the normal Daleks were hearing, the song? I'm going to rationalize the whole thing as the human voice being a radio transmission, then when he met her he heard her real voice. Still doesn't entirely work, I know since the Daleks usually have their robo voice in radio transmission, but it's the only thing I can think of.

I'll have to rewatch, but don't you hear the Dalek and Doctor's conversation from inside the white room (not just inside the Dalek's head). I can't honestly remember what the voice sounds like in those scenes.


It's her voice when she hears herself, Dalek when the doctor talks to her. IIRC, debating watching it again.

Anyway, considering she was over a speaker the whole time, I'd go with voice being manipulated.

Although goddamn, on a side note, my simple Google search to figure out when the premiere was going to be ended up telling me that Rory and Amy leave (and when). Obviously it was gonna happen, and I don't know how, but goddammit that was annoying.

/why I didn't know the premiere was tonight
 
2012-09-02 12:29:10 AM  

HopScotchNSoda: Meh, his father-in-law is nearly twice that old.


Yeah, but he's had plastic surgery.
 
2012-09-02 12:30:10 AM  
wow, way to miss the point guys.


The Dalek sent the doctor to enable them to KILL HER.
And now they don't know who he is but she did. Where do you think that idea came from.

How did they know how to get in touch with him.
Why did they go to use the Doctor instead of just inverting a rift on the planet or something.
How did she know to run?
Why did it take so long to convert her and why did they have to do it manually?

Episode 1 is the set-up for the series. Episode 1 is a set-up.

have a nice day and be sure to slap the idiots who have me on ignore.
 
2012-09-02 12:30:31 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: TheManofPA: rickycal78: sirbissel: One thing I didn't quite get-- the Doctor heard whats-her-face's voice. But if she was a Dalek, then wouldn't the voice have been all in her mind and the Doctor would have heard a Dalek's voice?

Not necessarily. Remember the transmission the normal Daleks were hearing, the song? I'm going to rationalize the whole thing as the human voice being a radio transmission, then when he met her he heard her real voice. Still doesn't entirely work, I know since the Daleks usually have their robo voice in radio transmission, but it's the only thing I can think of.

I'll have to rewatch, but don't you hear the Dalek and Doctor's conversation from inside the white room (not just inside the Dalek's head). I can't honestly remember what the voice sounds like in those scenes.

It's her voice when she hears herself, Dalek when the doctor talks to her. IIRC, debating watching it again.

Anyway, considering she was over a speaker the whole time, I'd go with voice being manipulated.

Although goddamn, on a side note, my simple Google search to figure out when the premiere was going to be ended up telling me that Rory and Amy leave (and when). Obviously it was gonna happen, and I don't know how, but goddammit that was annoying.

/why I didn't know the premiere was tonight


Did you miss the, approximately, 50 Doctor Who articles on FARK the past week?
 
2012-09-02 12:32:46 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: TheManofPA: rickycal78: sirbissel: One thing I didn't quite get-- the Doctor heard whats-her-face's voice. But if she was a Dalek, then wouldn't the voice have been all in her mind and the Doctor would have heard a Dalek's voice?

Not necessarily. Remember the transmission the normal Daleks were hearing, the song? I'm going to rationalize the whole thing as the human voice being a radio transmission, then when he met her he heard her real voice. Still doesn't entirely work, I know since the Daleks usually have their robo voice in radio transmission, but it's the only thing I can think of.

I'll have to rewatch, but don't you hear the Dalek and Doctor's conversation from inside the white room (not just inside the Dalek's head). I can't honestly remember what the voice sounds like in those scenes.

It's her voice when she hears herself, Dalek when the doctor talks to her. IIRC, debating watching it again.

Anyway, considering she was over a speaker the whole time, I'd go with voice being manipulated.

Although goddamn, on a side note, my simple Google search to figure out when the premiere was going to be ended up telling me that Rory and Amy leave (and when). Obviously it was gonna happen, and I don't know how, but goddammit that was annoying.

/why I didn't know the premiere was tonight


Oh yeah....I guess she was flirting with everyone through the speakers in her regular voice. Had it been a Dalek voice, the Doctor would have been like....uh why is a Dalek flirting with me over the loudspeaker
 
2012-09-02 12:34:16 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: HOLY CRAP THAT'S TONIGHT?

Awesome!

/SO finally f--king broke me a few months ago
//sticking to the current doctor (with the exception of watching the original River Song episodes for the context) cause just catching up on the two seasons took so much time.... can't get caught up on it all, dammit
///keeps telling me the 10th was the best, eh, I don't know if it's the story arcs, or River Song, or Matt Smith in particular but it just hasn't grabbed me like the past two seasons have


Everyone's first Doctor is their favorite.

Though 11 is gaining on 5 quite rapidly with me; then again I haven't seen a Tom Baker episode since they originally aired.
 
2012-09-02 12:36:24 AM  

Lernaeus: StreetlightInTheGhetto: HOLY CRAP THAT'S TONIGHT?

Awesome!

/SO finally f--king broke me a few months ago
//sticking to the current doctor (with the exception of watching the original River Song episodes for the context) cause just catching up on the two seasons took so much time.... can't get caught up on it all, dammit
///keeps telling me the 10th was the best, eh, I don't know if it's the story arcs, or River Song, or Matt Smith in particular but it just hasn't grabbed me like the past two seasons have

Everyone's first Doctor is their favorite.

Though 11 is gaining on 5 quite rapidly with me; then again I haven't seen a Tom Baker episode since they originally aired.


My first Doctor was the 4th. And my favorite Doctor is the 1st.
/So there.
 
2012-09-02 12:36:41 AM  

Ford Perfect: Probably ran out of cow's milk ages ago and were working on the emergency supply of dog's milk.


i1034.photobucket.com
"Oswin has been described by the Guinness Book of World Records as the most fearless insane Dalek in all the asylum. Oswin doesn't care. Oswin doesn't give a shiat."
 
2012-09-02 12:37:53 AM  

Gunny Walker: HopScotchNSoda: Meh, his father-in-law is nearly twice that old.

Yeah, but he's had plastic surgery.


Golf clap. Well done.
 
2012-09-02 12:39:59 AM  

BronyMedic: Rules of the New Doctor Who:

1) The Doctor Lies


FTFY.

/been happening since "An Unearthly Child."
 
2012-09-02 12:40:18 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Did you miss the, approximately, 50 Doctor Who articles on FARK the past week?


Yeah, actually. Been camping all week. Crappy 3G even in town (for all 4 of us who all had different cells and providers). Just got back today.
 
2012-09-02 12:42:31 AM  

ghost_who_walks: Well, ABC (Australia, that is) did the amazing thing and put it up on their web viewer before it shows on TV - That is, Australians can legitimately stream it online a full week before it shows on TV. Now that's how it's done.

On to the ep: Liked it, a lot, but I must admit to being so used to the big-overarching-plot type stories that I think I was waiting for more from it... but no, that's just me, and no fault of this ep. Had me going "wtf?"-quisical-dog at a few points until things were explained and I went "Ahhh! I see now!"

Are we hiding spoilers? Some things have kinda been said already and I don't want to ruin it for anyone just checking in on this thread...

Spoilers in white:
- So yeah, since that was the new companion there, does this mean we know how she dies before we meet her properly?
- How could Amy ever give up Rory? She's crazy. He's managed to get even more handsome, and he would never stop loving her, he waited for her for two thousand years and he looks at her with those puppydog eyes and gawd I'm gushing over a fictional character shoot me now.
- I'm glad we get to see why the Daleks are so feared and how they aren't just pepper pots on wheels... they do have tech and spies and stuff.
- And yeah, the Doctor has been wiped from their memory... and he made them what they are...
- This is more on the theme that was set last season though: The Doctor has got too "large", too well known. I suspect we're going to be seeing more of him doing things to reduce his impact on the universe.
- Why didn't the nanobots affect the doctor? Or did they...?


Anyway, so very glad the Doctor is back


1. Your name is awesome.
2. Your commentary is well stated.

... that's all. I just thought you should know.
 
2012-09-02 12:43:32 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: FirstNationalBastard: Did you miss the, approximately, 50 Doctor Who articles on FARK the past week?

Yeah, actually. Been camping all week. Crappy 3G even in town (for all 4 of us who all had different cells and providers). Just got back today.


Damn! Kinda sucked to be you then, since they've been airing the last two seasons since Friday.

/unless you have them DVRed.
//or Netflixed
///or on DVD
 
2012-09-02 12:43:32 AM  

Lernaeus: Everyone's first Doctor is their favorite.


That's fair, but I saw the many, many bits and pieces of 9 and 10 via the SO (and less of at least half a dozen other doctors) before I got to 11.

Did kinda suck that I knew the River Song reveal before I even started watching everything in proper order.

I'll probably go back and watch 10 and other episodes here and there if they're referenced in current episodes, but man, I gotta draw a line in the sand. Way. too. many. hours of this.
 
2012-09-02 12:45:25 AM  

Rwa2play: StreetlightInTheGhetto: FirstNationalBastard: Did you miss the, approximately, 50 Doctor Who articles on FARK the past week?

Yeah, actually. Been camping all week. Crappy 3G even in town (for all 4 of us who all had different cells and providers). Just got back today.

Damn! Kinda sucked to be you then, since they've been airing the last two seasons since Friday.

/unless you have them DVRed.
//or Netflixed
///or on DVD


Netflix.

/and expat shield
//ahem

StreetlightInTheGhetto: I'll probably go back and watch 10 and other episodes here and there if they're referenced in current episodes, but man, I gotta draw a line in the sand. Way. too. many. hours of this.


Speaking of which, if anyone can rattle off a "essential episodes" list, that'd be cool.
 
2012-09-02 12:45:51 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Lernaeus: Everyone's first Doctor is their favorite.

That's fair, but I saw the many, many bits and pieces of 9 and 10 via the SO (and less of at least half a dozen other doctors) before I got to 11.

Did kinda suck that I knew the River Song reveal before I even started watching everything in proper order.

I'll probably go back and watch 10 and other episodes here and there if they're referenced in current episodes, but man, I gotta draw a line in the sand. Way. too. many. hours of this.


I've watched episodes of all the Doctors save for the first one. No. 3 is my fav: something kinda badass about using Venusian martial arts.
 
2012-09-02 12:46:07 AM  
Oh crap. I should have cut those spoilers. I apologize.
 
2012-09-02 12:49:13 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Rwa2play: StreetlightInTheGhetto: FirstNationalBastard: Did you miss the, approximately, 50 Doctor Who articles on FARK the past week?

Yeah, actually. Been camping all week. Crappy 3G even in town (for all 4 of us who all had different cells and providers). Just got back today.

Damn! Kinda sucked to be you then, since they've been airing the last two seasons since Friday.

/unless you have them DVRed.
//or Netflixed
///or on DVD

Netflix.

/and expat shield
//ahem


Nice. Friday was the first time I watched that whole season.

One of these days I gotta get enough money scraped together so I can buy all of the NuWho eps. Then watch them back-to-back when I'm bored.
 
2012-09-02 12:53:16 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Rwa2play: StreetlightInTheGhetto: FirstNationalBastard: Did you miss the, approximately, 50 Doctor Who articles on FARK the past week?

Yeah, actually. Been camping all week. Crappy 3G even in town (for all 4 of us who all had different cells and providers). Just got back today.

Damn! Kinda sucked to be you then, since they've been airing the last two seasons since Friday.

/unless you have them DVRed.
//or Netflixed
///or on DVD

Netflix.

/and expat shield
//ahem

StreetlightInTheGhetto: I'll probably go back and watch 10 and other episodes here and there if they're referenced in current episodes, but man, I gotta draw a line in the sand. Way. too. many. hours of this.

Speaking of which, if anyone can rattle off a "essential episodes" list, that'd be cool.


From just the new series?

Rose and Dalek from Doctor #9

10:

Christmas Invasion
New Earth
School Reunion
Girl in the Fireplace
Runaway Bride
Blink
All of season 4
And, I guess End of Time parts 1 and 2, if you want to see the most emo regeneration ever.

As for classic... well, give me some time if you're talking about classic.
 
2012-09-02 12:54:01 AM  
At around seven minutes in, when Daleks are banging on her door, what are they saying? It sounds to me like "You will express Hitler. We wear chaw." but for some reason I doubt that's the genuine dialogue.
 
2012-09-02 12:54:58 AM  

Rwa2play: StreetlightInTheGhetto: Lernaeus: Everyone's first Doctor is their favorite.

That's fair, but I saw the many, many bits and pieces of 9 and 10 via the SO (and less of at least half a dozen other doctors) before I got to 11.

Did kinda suck that I knew the River Song reveal before I even started watching everything in proper order.

I'll probably go back and watch 10 and other episodes here and there if they're referenced in current episodes, but man, I gotta draw a line in the sand. Way. too. many. hours of this.

I've watched episodes of all the Doctors save for the first one. No. 3 is my fav: something kinda badass about using Venusian martial arts.


See, I would have said there is something badass about intentionally walking around looking like an aging Georgian renyboy
 
2012-09-02 12:55:20 AM  

deSelby: At around seven minutes in, when Daleks are banging on her door, what are they saying? It sounds to me like "You will express Hitler. We wear chaw." but for some reason I doubt that's the genuine dialogue.


No, they were skinhead redneck Daleks. So they were indeed saying "You will express Hitler. We wear chaw."
 
2012-09-02 12:56:26 AM  

phalamir: Rwa2play: StreetlightInTheGhetto: Lernaeus: Everyone's first Doctor is their favorite.

That's fair, but I saw the many, many bits and pieces of 9 and 10 via the SO (and less of at least half a dozen other doctors) before I got to 11.

Did kinda suck that I knew the River Song reveal before I even started watching everything in proper order.

I'll probably go back and watch 10 and other episodes here and there if they're referenced in current episodes, but man, I gotta draw a line in the sand. Way. too. many. hours of this.

I've watched episodes of all the Doctors save for the first one. No. 3 is my fav: something kinda badass about using Venusian martial arts.

See, I would have said there is something badass about intentionally walking around looking like an aging Georgian renyboy


microfilums.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-09-02 12:57:25 AM  

Rwa2play: StreetlightInTheGhetto: Rwa2play: StreetlightInTheGhetto: FirstNationalBastard: Did you miss the, approximately, 50 Doctor Who articles on FARK the past week?

Yeah, actually. Been camping all week. Crappy 3G even in town (for all 4 of us who all had different cells and providers). Just got back today.

Damn! Kinda sucked to be you then, since they've been airing the last two seasons since Friday.

/unless you have them DVRed.
//or Netflixed
///or on DVD

Netflix.

/and expat shield
//ahem

Nice. Friday was the first time I watched that whole season.

One of these days I gotta get enough money scraped together so I can buy all of the NuWho eps. Then watch them back-to-back when I'm bored.


Currently watching all the classic Who eps (naming kid after one of the 4th/5ths companions, trying to get to that point before she shows up in December)...
 
2012-09-02 01:00:09 AM  

FirstNationalBastard:

StreetlightInTheGhetto: I'll probably go back and watch 10 and other episodes here and there if they're referenced in current episodes, but man, I gotta draw a line in the sand. Way. too. many. hours of this.

Speaking of which, if anyone can rattle off a "essential episodes" list, that'd be cool.

From just the new series?

Rose and Dalek from Doctor #9


Hmmm, really. Might as well get the whole season; just for sheer geeking out about the series returning.


10:

Christmas Invasion
New Earth
School Reunion
Girl in the Fireplace
Runaway Bride
Blink
All of season 4
And, I guess End of Time parts 1 and 2, if you want to see the most emo regeneration ever.

Oh wow, End of Time. That and towards the end of "The Ultimate Foe" have to be the two crappiest scenes that end with a regeneration in the history of the series.
 
2012-09-02 01:03:54 AM  
I was really super bummed on what happened to Oswin, but she was pretty badass though. I wonder how she is going to come up in the following season. Also after googleing the name Oswin, apparently it means God's friend
 
2012-09-02 01:04:17 AM  

sirbissel: Currently watching all the classic Who eps (naming kid after one of the 4th/5ths companions, trying to get to that point before she shows up in December)...


You're going to name your kid Kamelion? For shame.
 
2012-09-02 01:05:53 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: StreetlightInTheGhetto: Rwa2play: StreetlightInTheGhetto: FirstNationalBastard: Did you miss the, approximately, 50 Doctor Who articles on FARK the past week?

Yeah, actually. Been camping all week. Crappy 3G even in town (for all 4 of us who all had different cells and providers). Just got back today.

Damn! Kinda sucked to be you then, since they've been airing the last two seasons since Friday.

/unless you have them DVRed.
//or Netflixed
///or on DVD

Netflix.

/and expat shield
//ahem

StreetlightInTheGhetto: I'll probably go back and watch 10 and other episodes here and there if they're referenced in current episodes, but man, I gotta draw a line in the sand. Way. too. many. hours of this.

Speaking of which, if anyone can rattle off a "essential episodes" list, that'd be cool.

From just the new series?

Rose and Dalek from Doctor #9

10:

Christmas Invasion
New Earth
School Reunion
Girl in the Fireplace
Runaway Bride
Blink
All of season 4
And, I guess End of Time parts 1 and 2, if you want to see the most emo regeneration ever.

As for classic... well, give me some time if you're talking about classic.


That's a decent start, thanks! I've seen Blink (yeah, the weeping angels kind of kick ass).

BTW, Joe Jackson + Shatner = Common People is one of my favorite songs ever for some reason. Somehow managed to make a song I already loved even more awesome. Much respect.

/put it on a mix CD for last week's road trip
//have sung it with my friend at karaoke (in Jackson/Shatner style, although it was Pulp)
///grew up on Joe Jackson (and the Clash, thanks, Dad)
 
2012-09-02 01:07:03 AM  

Gosling: sirbissel: Currently watching all the classic Who eps (naming kid after one of the 4th/5ths companions, trying to get to that point before she shows up in December)...

You're going to name your kid Kamelion? For shame.


Well, with the last name Mann, I figured it'd make a good villain name.
 
2012-09-02 01:11:51 AM  

some_beer_drinker: i have been hating on the doctor for a few years now, but this one was actually pretty good. let's see how long that lasts.


I definitely don't get that. Last season was brilliant.


Anyway. I just caught the midnight showing. I really like the twist at the end. This season is starting out great!


Haters gonna hate but so far I think its been great all around.
 
2012-09-02 01:12:09 AM  

Gosling: sirbissel: Currently watching all the classic Who eps (naming kid after one of the 4th/5ths companions, trying to get to that point before she shows up in December)...

You're going to name your kid Kamelion? For shame.


K-9?
 
2012-09-02 01:16:19 AM  

diaphoresis: Boring episode. Predictable from 17 mins in.

/I still dislike Matt Smith


Always one in the group. Still watching doctor who, still stuck on David tenant, still complaining on the internet.
 
2012-09-02 01:23:44 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Lernaeus: Everyone's first Doctor is their favorite.

That's fair, but I saw the many, many bits and pieces of 9 and 10 via the SO (and less of at least half a dozen other doctors) before I got to 11.

Did kinda suck that I knew the River Song reveal before I even started watching everything in proper order.

I'll probably go back and watch 10 and other episodes here and there if they're referenced in current episodes, but man, I gotta draw a line in the sand. Way. too. many. hours of this.


I did that, and it really helps to open things up. Everything makes sense when you watch it backwards.


That reminds me, what will make sense 10 episodes from now? Obviously the new companion becomes human. How? She asks him to remember her.
 
2012-09-02 01:25:31 AM  

enforcerpsu: diaphoresis: Boring episode. Predictable from 17 mins in.

/I still dislike Matt Smith

Always one in the group. Still watching doctor who, still stuck on David tenant, still complaining on the internet.


It's because a lot of the new Doctor Who fans started with Tennant, and RTD, so they are super fan boy about them. They don't grasp the concept truly that the Doctor regenerates and he usually turns into something completely different than the one before. They don't like change, and they go hipster like I liked Tennant and Doctor Who before it became popular (American wise). Smith made Doctor Who more popular, and I think its because he has more range than Tannant, and that's not a diss to Tenannt. It's a diss to RTD making the 10th Doctor more emo. I personally love the 9th, and 11th Doctor, but I have a soft spot for the 2nd Doctor as well. I sort of watched it as a kid, but didn't give two shiats about it, but I did start watching it on and off right when Tennant took over. So I don't really like to diss on which Doctor is better, but I do hold some hatred for RTD, on making the last four specials for the 10th Doctor kind of lame, imo.
 
2012-09-02 01:27:33 AM  

enforcerpsu: StreetlightInTheGhetto: Lernaeus: Everyone's first Doctor is their favorite.

That's fair, but I saw the many, many bits and pieces of 9 and 10 via the SO (and less of at least half a dozen other doctors) before I got to 11.

Did kinda suck that I knew the River Song reveal before I even started watching everything in proper order.

I'll probably go back and watch 10 and other episodes here and there if they're referenced in current episodes, but man, I gotta draw a line in the sand. Way. too. many. hours of this.

I did that, and it really helps to open things up. Everything makes sense when you watch it backwards.


That reminds me, what will make sense 10 episodes from now? Obviously the new companion becomes human. How? She asks him to remember her.


Maybe she nanoed him up with her thoughts or something without him realizing it? She is a human genius, and a Dalek at the same time.
 
2012-09-02 01:28:38 AM  

demonfaerie: enforcerpsu: diaphoresis: Boring episode. Predictable from 17 mins in.

/I still dislike Matt Smith

Always one in the group. Still watching doctor who, still stuck on David tenant, still complaining on the internet.

It's because a lot of the new Doctor Who fans started with Tennant, and RTD, so they are super fan boy about them. They don't grasp the concept truly that the Doctor regenerates and he usually turns into something completely different than the one before. They don't like change, and they go hipster like I liked Tennant and Doctor Who before it became popular (American wise). Smith made Doctor Who more popular, and I think its because he has more range than Tannant, and that's not a diss to Tenannt. It's a diss to RTD making the 10th Doctor more emo. I personally love the 9th, and 11th Doctor, but I have a soft spot for the 2nd Doctor as well. I sort of watched it as a kid, but didn't give two shiats about it, but I did start watching it on and off right when Tennant took over. So I don't really like to diss on which Doctor is better, but I do hold some hatred for RTD, on making the last four specials for the 10th Doctor kind of lame, imo.


I definitely get that you're saying. I think for some people David tenant is doctor who. That's kind of missing the entire point, like you said.
 
2012-09-02 01:35:12 AM  
Well, because i didn't just loooooooooooooove this episode, im being told i am not a real doctor who fan.If im not why have i been buying the damned dvds, toys and getting the hubby to go as 11 for halloween? jeez people.
 
2012-09-02 01:36:46 AM  

jamiekate: Well, because i didn't just loooooooooooooove this episode, im being told i am not a real doctor who fan.If im not why have i been buying the damned dvds, toys and getting the hubby to go as 11 for halloween? jeez people.


Actually, no one said that, and everyone was referring to the poster biatching about Matt Smith. But whateva.
 
2012-09-02 01:36:59 AM  

enforcerpsu: demonfaerie: enforcerpsu: diaphoresis: Boring episode. Predictable from 17 mins in.

/I still dislike Matt Smith

Always one in the group. Still watching doctor who, still stuck on David tenant, still complaining on the internet.

It's because a lot of the new Doctor Who fans started with Tennant, and RTD, so they are super fan boy about them. They don't grasp the concept truly that the Doctor regenerates and he usually turns into something completely different than the one before. They don't like change, and they go hipster like I liked Tennant and Doctor Who before it became popular (American wise). Smith made Doctor Who more popular, and I think its because he has more range than Tannant, and that's not a diss to Tenannt. It's a diss to RTD making the 10th Doctor more emo. I personally love the 9th, and 11th Doctor, but I have a soft spot for the 2nd Doctor as well. I sort of watched it as a kid, but didn't give two shiats about it, but I did start watching it on and off right when Tennant took over. So I don't really like to diss on which Doctor is better, but I do hold some hatred for RTD, on making the last four specials for the 10th Doctor kind of lame, imo.

I definitely get that you're saying. I think for some people David tenant is doctor who. That's kind of missing the entire point, like you said.


Also don't argue with them on it, because they will go apeshiat on you. They love RTD, and hate Moffat, because of his story arch, and he brought them Smith. Also they kind of ignore original run of Doctor Who, but they still watch it to make fun of it. They also like to cosplay old Doctor incarnations to show how into the show they are. I've learned this from experience, while going bar hopping with a few of them.
 
2012-09-02 01:37:41 AM  
There were 12 missing escape pods.

Heh. That's all.
 
2012-09-02 01:39:14 AM  
no one here Streetlight, a facebook group, when i brought up that i really didn't care for it a woman jumped all over me saying i wasn't a true fan.
 
2012-09-02 01:43:16 AM  

enforcerpsu: That reminds me, what will make sense 10 episodes from now? Obviously the new companion becomes human. How? She asks him to remember her.


Same actress, different character. The new companion's name will be Clara. Obviously, the two young women are connected in some way -- sisters, clones, mother & daughter (Oswin did make reference to her mother and it being the latter's birthday recording her notes); the same actress would not have been cast this season for a guest spot unless it was intentional. It's not like a guest actor who later gets hired to be a companion or Doctor, nor is it as if she was disguised under alien prosthetic makeup.

I initially didn't recognise the different name, so when Oswin died I initially got angry about Moffat making yet another companion be out of sync with the Doctor, like the majority of multi-episode companions since Mel Bush (seriously, most have met the Doctor before he met them and vice versa -- even if you count Wilf and Craig as multi-episode companions, they're still outnumbered by the out-of-sync ones).
 
2012-09-02 01:44:58 AM  
static.bbci.co.uk

I've had it with these motherfarking dinos on my motherfarking spaceship!
 
2012-09-02 01:50:21 AM  

Tax Boy: [static.bbci.co.uk image 850x478]


And the religious types were offended by Ten's messianic appearance in "Voyage of the Dammed". Now Eleven is depicted riding a dinosaur like Jebus. They are going to be maaaaad.
 
2012-09-02 01:53:20 AM  

HopScotchNSoda: enforcerpsu: That reminds me, what will make sense 10 episodes from now? Obviously the new companion becomes human. How? She asks him to remember her.

Same actress, different character. The new companion's name will be Clara. Obviously, the two young women are connected in some way -- sisters, clones, mother & daughter (Oswin did make reference to her mother and it being the latter's birthday recording her notes); the same actress would not have been cast this season for a guest spot unless it was intentional. It's not like a guest actor who later gets hired to be a companion or Doctor, nor is it as if she was disguised under alien prosthetic makeup.

I initially didn't recognise the different name, so when Oswin died I initially got angry about Moffat making yet another companion be out of sync with the Doctor, like the majority of multi-episode companions since Mel Bush (seriously, most have met the Doctor before he met them and vice versa -- even if you count Wilf and Craig as multi-episode companions, they're still outnumbered by the out-of-sync ones).


Well, we don't actually know yet whether Clara and Oswin are two different people. I hope they are, it's going to be a bit much if everything is out of sync again, but the emphasis on "remember me" is a bit suspect.
 
2012-09-02 01:54:51 AM  

enforcerpsu: diaphoresis: Boring episode. Predictable from 17 mins in.

/I still dislike Matt Smith

Always one in the group. Still watching doctor who, still stuck on David tenant, still complaining on the internet.


Blah. Not stuck on Tennant, but Smith is MLP. It's always been, in its own way, a kids' show, but since Smith it's been this x10. Blech. Episode was sub-par, although I do like the 'trying to make Daleks menacing again'.

Aside: Either Amy or Rory dies this season, and either way Rory dies this season (they can't really kill off that slag Amy and leave poor Rory alive alone...).

i952.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-02 01:55:06 AM  
I've watched the show since I was a kid. Tom Baker was my first Doctor and Sarah Jane Smith was my first companion. I eventually got to see the series from the beginning, but I still have a special place in my heart for those two. Made me very sad when Elizabeth Sladen passed away, followed by Nicholas Courtney (Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart) and Mary Tamm (the first Romana). I guess I just don't like seeing more pieces of my childhood falling away.

I like the current run of the show, too. With a few exceptions, I've liked all the new episodes.

Just got done downloading and burning the new episode, and will watch it with my wife tomorrow.

This ends my rambling
 
2012-09-02 01:58:18 AM  
Watched this twice tonight and really enjoyed it.

loved the long shot of all the Parliament Daleks headlights going on and off as they were chanting.

They've managed to make the Daleks scary again.

Got the big twist near the end about a few seconds before the reveal, and it was a heart-breaker. The conversion flashbacks were pretty horrific - reminded me a lot of "Revelation of the Daleks" where the partially-converted mutant in the glass Dalek was ranting one moment and pleading with his daughter to kill him the next moment.

So far so good for series 7.
 
2012-09-02 02:06:30 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: enforcerpsu: diaphoresis: Boring episode. Predictable from 17 mins in.

/I still dislike Matt Smith

Always one in the group. Still watching doctor who, still stuck on David tenant, still complaining on the internet.

Blah. Not stuck on Tennant, but Smith is MLP. It's always been, in its own way, a kids' show, but since Smith it's been this x10. Blech. Episode was sub-par, although I do like the 'trying to make Daleks menacing again'.



o, we went through this before... the usual depiction of Doctor Whooves is the Tenth Doctor. Derpy is obviously Rose (or is it that Rose was obviously Derpy? Eh, it works either way).

i6.photobucket.com


/I have no idea who Twilight Sparkle represents.
 
2012-09-02 02:12:17 AM  
So, I haven't seen this in the thread, but I may have missed it, but am I the only one who kinda feels like Amy and Rory...well...they're done. Like, it was o.k. seeing them, being in the story and all, but it felt like they were past their expiration date. By a lot, really. Last season really tied their entire story up in a very tidy, very well done bow. Now they feel...unnecessary? Or maybe more like baggage that's just there.

Could just be me, it just seems like the stories they were meant for are now done, and they are no longer the right people to be in these new stories. And yes, I know they are leaving, it's just that I think the end of last season should have been the send off.

The new girl was good, of course, but she did feel a bit like an Ace clone. NTTAWWT.
 
2012-09-02 02:14:09 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: /I have no idea who Twilight Sparkle represents.


Martha Jones. Seriously, they have very similar personalities, or as similar as a pony and a fictional Doctor Who companion can have.
 
2012-09-02 02:15:37 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: ArcadianRefugee: enforcerpsu: diaphoresis: Boring episode. Predictable from 17 mins in.

/I still dislike Matt Smith

Always one in the group. Still watching doctor who, still stuck on David tenant, still complaining on the internet.

Blah. Not stuck on Tennant, but Smith is MLP. It's always been, in its own way, a kids' show, but since Smith it's been this x10. Blech. Episode was sub-par, although I do like the 'trying to make Daleks menacing again'.



o, we went through this before... the usual depiction of Doctor Whooves is the Tenth Doctor. Derpy is obviously Rose (or is it that Rose was obviously Derpy? Eh, it works either way).

[i6.photobucket.com image 563x464]


/I have no idea who Twilight Sparkle represents.


Yeah that is true, but it's mostly because fanboys see Doctor Whooves as the 10th Doctor, because that is the first male pony that looks like one of the Doctors. There has been hints to others, but people just love Tennant more.
 
2012-09-02 02:16:39 AM  
I have not been this smitten with a TV character since Jennie Garth was on 90210. Good LAWD that Jenna Louise Coleman is beautiful.

She's also another daughter of Amy Pond. Well, her character is, anyways.
 
2012-09-02 02:18:15 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: o, we went through this before... the usual depiction of Doctor Whooves is the Tenth Doctor. Derpy is obviously Rose (or is it that Rose was obviously Derpy? Eh, it works either way).

[i6.photobucket.com image 563x464]

/I have no idea who Twilight Sparkle represents.


Other than what is inflicted upon me by the children of friends, I don't do "My Little Pony", so forgive me if I stick with the more 'pop' comparison.
 
2012-09-02 02:29:56 AM  

demonfaerie:

Yeah that is true, but it's mostly because fanboys see Doctor Whooves as the 10th Doctor, because that is the first male pony that looks like one of the Doctors. There has been hints to others, but people just love Tennant more.


I went through the majority of Doctor Who in a relatively short amount of time, so I don't really have a "my Doctor". Yeah, the first one I watched was Eccleston, but his run was too short for me to scream "BEST DOCTOR EVAR" about him.

That also means I don't get the fanboy attachment to just one Doctor. They all had their moments (well, except for McGann).

/however, I will fight to get Donna Noble recognized as best NuWho companion.
//and, yeah, Upcoming Companion could be the second best of the new series, if she is written like the character from Asylum of the Daleks.
 
2012-09-02 02:41:00 AM  
Oh, another observation - whatever was done to Amy on Demon's Run...anyone care to wager that the nanogenes that were Dalekifying her undid it? I mean, that's what they were made for in the first place, right? When we first met nanogenes they were on an ambulance ship and were meant for healing.
 
2012-09-02 02:43:09 AM  
Moffat is good writer, but at times it seems he has a retarded twin brother that takes over whenever he takes a tea break. Great concept for the episode: A Dalek insane asylum. Great set design. Good twist at the end. But the episodes is ruined by another DURRRRR! NANOOO ROBOTS TAKE OVER ANYTHING AND TURN IT INTO DALEKZ!
s7.postimage.org
Seriously, the eye stalk and gun are just too over the top.

If the Daleks had this nano tech the whole time, why didn't they just sit back, sip on some Dalek Margaritas, and just infect all of their enemies with this unstoppable, and invisible Dalek nano-virus?

It would have been cooler and infinitely more creepy if the Daleks created the "Android-Daleks" which had a human-like shell, but had a Dalek inside AND the brain of the host. The Daleks could have finally defeated their (forgotten) other foe, the Movellans, which were Androids, and used their tech to make Dalek-droids.
 
2012-09-02 02:56:30 AM  

wookiemonster: But the episodes is ruined by another DURRRRR! NANOOO ROBOTS TAKE OVER ANYTHING AND TURN IT INTO DALEKZ!


Seemed plausible to, me.

The espisode left me feeling pretty optimistic about the rest of the season - Moffatt's back and it looks like he's returned to form.
 
2012-09-02 03:13:19 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: ... I went through the majority of Doctor Who in a relatively short amount of time, so I don't really have a "my Doctor". Yeah, the first one I watched was Eccleston, but his run was too short for me to scream "BEST DOCTOR EVAR" about him.

That also means I don't get the fanboy attachment to just one Doctor. They all had their moments (well, except for McGann).

/however, I will fight to get Donna Noble recognized as best NuWho companion.
//and, yeah, Upcoming Companion could be the second best of the new series, if she is written like the character from Asylum of the Daleks.


I actually cannot remember which Doctor my first was. My friend introduced me to Doctor Who with both Tom Baker and Christopher Eccleston. She only had the one Baker episode on DVD, so when 9 regenerated, I was wholly unprepared, and freaked out about WTF was going on, she nearly died laughing at me. I warmed up to Tennant pretty quickly, though. In all honesty, T. Baker is my favorite, but Smith and Tennant are not far behind, mostly because I just love the whackiness. I certainly do not understand people hating one Doctor because he's not the other Doctor. Makes no damn sense to me.

demonfaerie: ... Also they kind of ignore original run of Doctor Who, but they still watch it to make fun of it. They also like to cosplay old Doctor incarnations to show how into the show they are. I've learned this from experience, while going bar hopping with a few of them.


I have a strong desire to find these people and string them up with my scarf.

Sure, the effects are cheesy (and some of the plots, and costumes and sets are cheesy, too) and downright dreadful at times, but it is awesome. I will admit to laughing at times, though; my friend and I cracked up at the crappy effects in Horror of Fang Rock for example, where the monster looked completely different (with vastly different size) depending on whether you were watching it climb up the steps from above or below.
 
2012-09-02 03:44:25 AM  
lh5.googleusercontent.com

Remember Me.....
 
2012-09-02 03:54:07 AM  
I didn't like the episode.

Rory and Amy are divorced, which is completely contrived and intended to shock us. It's also totally unbelievable.
Amy left because she wanted Rory to have kids. Have you ever heard of adoption? Stupid, stupid contrived reason to end a relationship yet still allows...
Rory and Amy declare their eternal love for each other at the end and get back together. CONTRIVED!

Also, as soon as the Doctor said, "You're cold" I knew the chick was a Dalek, or something like that. My mind instantly flashed to Bathilda Bagshot in Harry Potter, and I just knew.
Also foresaw the zombie Daleks.
Also totally figured out Oswin was a Dalek (at least like the black guy was, Dalek-ish, I suppose) as soon as black dude outed himself. It was so obvious.

The only cool part was the bit at the end where the Daleks forget who the Doctor is. I saw it coming when she made the other Daleks forget him, but I love the implication so much that I'm willing to look beyond its obviousness.
 
2012-09-02 03:54:22 AM  

Snapper Carr: wookiemonster: But the episodes is ruined by another DURRRRR! NANOOO ROBOTS TAKE OVER ANYTHING AND TURN IT INTO DALEKZ!

Seemed plausible to, me.

The espisode left me feeling pretty optimistic about the rest of the season - Moffatt's back and it looks like he's returned to form.


Nu-Who daleks find lifeforms other than them to be disgusting and they hate them. So to keep them around is a contradiction.
 
2012-09-02 03:57:12 AM  

Leishu: 1. Your name is awesome.
2. Your commentary is well stated.

... that's all. I just thought you should know.


*blush* Oh you do go on!

;-)
 
2012-09-02 04:00:14 AM  

Mike Chewbacca: Rory and Amy are divorced, which is completely contrived and intended to shock us. It's also totally unbelievable.
Amy left because she wanted Rory to have kids. Have you ever heard of adoption? Stupid, stupid contrived reason to end a relationship yet still allows...
Rory and Amy declare their eternal love for each other at the end and get back together. CONTRIVED!



rlv.zcache.com
 
2012-09-02 04:04:30 AM  

sirbissel: Gosling: sirbissel: Currently watching all the classic Who eps (naming kid after one of the 4th/5ths companions, trying to get to that point before she shows up in December)...

You're going to name your kid Kamelion? For shame.

Well, with the last name Mann, I figured it'd make a good villain name.


Kamelion? That's bad Karma
 
2012-09-02 04:09:32 AM  

MadSkillz: Nu-Who daleks find lifeforms other than them to be disgusting and they hate them. So to keep them around is a contradiction.


Under normal circumstances that would be reasonable, but the Doctor has driven them to the brink of total extinction - and they've done something like this before - (I know, we'd all like to forget about Daleks in Manhattan but the episode shows their drive to survive will take precedent over their xenophobia when the alternative means death of the entire race.
 
2012-09-02 04:34:44 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Now, Daleks are happily turning Humans?


You're forgetting Revelation of the Daleks...

www.freewebs.com
 
2012-09-02 05:31:18 AM  
Fantastic episode. so complete, well paced, packs a heck of a lot in without feeling rushed.

Two episodes I want to see made:

1. A literal re-visitng of a classic story in the stye of DS9 "trouble with tribbles". The companion runs away from some monster, takes shelter in the TARDIS and we see the classic console room and Jon Pertwee at the controls. My origional idea was for it to bee Dinosaurs in London with all the effects updated (Thought of this before the promos for next weeks episodes) I would also have included young and old Sarah Janes, pitty that's impossible now.

2. The Clone doctor from the alternate universe (David Tennant) turns up determined to get his regenerations back from the real doctor. He has all the doctors memorys and is now stuck on alt earth with a family pof chavs, it shouldn't take him long to go completely insane, kill them all and come after the doctor.
 
2012-09-02 05:42:49 AM  
Liked this story a lot. They made the Daleks a threat rather than silly metal boxs running around shouting at everything. Eleven was smart and brave rather than a bafoon, and Amy actually loving and self-sacrificing instead of being a self centered biatch.

pseudowho: FirstNationalBastard: Now, Daleks are happily turning Humans?

You're forgetting Revelation of the Daleks...

[www.freewebs.com image 400x329]


This. Davros developed a technique to convert humans into daleks way back in the sixth Doctors era. Just before he was captured by the Daleks and later became their emperor. Its actually a nice little bit of continuity.
 
2012-09-02 05:48:23 AM  

Mike Chewbacca: Rory and Amy are divorced, which is completely contrived and intended to shock us. It's also totally unbelievable.
Amy left because she wanted Rory to have kids. Have you ever heard of adoption? Stupid, stupid contrived reason to end a relationship yet still allows...
Rory and Amy declare their eternal love for each other at the end and get back together. CONTRIVED!


i.imgur.com


Haven't made it all the way through yet, but when I saw that nonsense, bullshiat garbage at the opening, I skipped to a random spot or two in the last 5m to make sure the whole episode wasn't going to piss me off by having them remain apart. Back to the episode now, and FARK YOU, MOFFAT for such an unbelievable, underwritten, ill-conceived, cheap and tawdry shock that makes two great characters seem like shallow farkwits.

A Venutian karate chop to the head for you, ya arse.

i.imgur.com
 
2012-09-02 06:41:44 AM  

Old enough to know better: This. Davros developed a technique to convert humans into daleks way back in the sixth Doctors era. Just before he was captured by the Daleks and later became their emperor. Its actually a nice little bit of continuity.


There was a lot of nice bits of continuity in the episode -- my favorite I think was the series of direct references to Planet of the Daleks, The Daleks' Master Plan, The Chase, Power of the Daleks, and Death to the Daleks (the wars that were named, in that order).
 
2012-09-02 07:11:46 AM  
I have a question, Why do I recognise the interior of the escape pod?
 
2012-09-02 07:52:36 AM  
Some reviewer said that there was an oft-repeated Tennant quote in Asylum, but I can't remember what it was...did anyone catch it?

/Alonsee?
 
2012-09-02 08:32:45 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Mega Steve: FirstNationalBastard: Di Atribe: ODDwhun: I am enjoying that the new companion is not going to be a helpless girl from present day Earth.

Helpless? Like who?

What a helpless Who may look like:

[theoodcast.com image 508x382]

I watched The Five Doctors the other day and I was reminded of what a limp-noodle the Fifth Doctor was. Peter Davison had his moments, but for the most part he was collapsing from something or other. Hell, the first few episodes he was in, he had regeneration sickness and wasn't a very active member of the story.

Not the actor's fault. Just not great writing, I guess

I believe Davison himself said that if the writing had been as good in his first two seasons as it was in his final season, he wouldn't have left after three seasons.

...now, why they couldn't carry the good writing from Davison's final season over into Colin Baker's run, I don't know.

/Eh, Baker 2 had Vengeance on Varos, which shows the promise his Doctor had. The writers just couldn't consistently write good episodes.


Honestly, Baker's best work is with Big Finish. He was ill-served by JN-T's production and stories,
 
2012-09-02 09:04:59 AM  

Mike Chewbacca: I saw it coming when she made the other Daleks forget him


Of course you saw it coming. THAT WAS THE ENTIRE POINT.

"Man, this is so predictable. When a plot point is revealed, I can think through the implications of that before the show spoon feeds me those very same implications."

Look, if you want unpredictable, hook a word processor up to a random number generator. I guarantee that you'll never know what comes next. But plot points follow in a logical sequence. If anyone you know was surprised by the fact that all the Daleks forgot the Doctor, after a character explicitly told you that she made the Daleks forget the Doctor, you must have some kind of brain damage that prevents your memory from functioning the way it's supposed to.
 
2012-09-02 09:31:38 AM  

Mike Chewbacca: I didn't like the episode.

Rory and Amy are divorced, which is completely contrived and intended to shock us. It's also totally unbelievable.
Amy left because she wanted Rory to have kids. Have you ever heard of adoption? Stupid, stupid contrived reason to end a relationship yet still allows...
Rory and Amy declare their eternal love for each other at the end and get back together. CONTRIVED!


Eh, I know people who divorced over this. It's not contrived at all.
 
2012-09-02 09:42:17 AM  

Public Call Box: FirstNationalBastard: Mega Steve: FirstNationalBastard: Di Atribe: ODDwhun: I am enjoying that the new companion is not going to be a helpless girl from present day Earth.

Helpless? Like who?

What a helpless Who may look like:

[theoodcast.com image 508x382]

I watched The Five Doctors the other day and I was reminded of what a limp-noodle the Fifth Doctor was. Peter Davison had his moments, but for the most part he was collapsing from something or other. Hell, the first few episodes he was in, he had regeneration sickness and wasn't a very active member of the story.

Not the actor's fault. Just not great writing, I guess

I believe Davison himself said that if the writing had been as good in his first two seasons as it was in his final season, he wouldn't have left after three seasons.

...now, why they couldn't carry the good writing from Davison's final season over into Colin Baker's run, I don't know.

/Eh, Baker 2 had Vengeance on Varos, which shows the promise his Doctor had. The writers just couldn't consistently write good episodes.

Honestly, Baker's best work is with Big Finish. He was ill-served by JN-T's production and stories,


Wha?

JNT didn't take over as executive producer until a few years into Baker's run with The Leisure Hive (the change in Baker's costume to mostly reds and the destruction of K9 are the two biggest clues). Up until that point, Baker had some wonderful episodes: The Deadly Assassin, Seeds of Doom, Face of Evil, Horror at Fang Rock, Talons of Weng Chiang, City of Death, etc. If I remember my dates correctly, JNT and Baker were only together for one year before Davison came in.
 
2012-09-02 09:49:59 AM  

Gunny Walker: Flint Ironstag: The reveal reminded me of Source Code. But the whole milk thing bugged me. They have replicators in the Whoverse, so why wonder where she got milk from?

He wanted to find out what kind of "world" she lived in without asking a lot of direct questions. He might have been suspicious that she was a Dalek very early on, but didn't want to shock her since she was the only way out. After all, it would have been shocking to come right out and say, "You do know you are a Dalek, right?" It wouldn't be that far of a stretch to think that it was a Dalek right away. Who else is smart enough to hack a Dalek insane asylum but a Dalek? And what's more insane than a Dalek that plays music. She may have never been human. She only thinks she looks like Jenna-Louise Coleman


It's also possible that he recognized the technology used on the ship and knew that they didn't have replicators at the time, or that the odds of finding a working replicator on a planet full of Daleks is kinda slim, or that the odds of anyone managing to shield themselves from the nanocloud, or even realizing it exists until it was too late, would be slim.

It is interesting that she has her own little room like some sort of centerpiece just off the room with all the Daleks that have survived the Doctor over the years.
 
2012-09-02 10:19:10 AM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: JNT didn't take over as executive producer until a few years into Baker's run


Wrong Baker.
 
2012-09-02 10:21:32 AM  
I personally think that Oswin 'hacked' Amy Pond, with the nanos. Eventually, those nanos are going to rewrite Amy mentally and physically, till Oswin is reborn, with all of her memories, and personality carried over.

Would kind of....mirror the Doctor's regeneration in many ways. Amy wouldn't be entirely 'gone' as evidenced by the 'survivor' Dalek drone's memories whom the gang first met beaming down to the planet. So you would have a sort of...blend? of Amy's strong will and toughness, with Oswin's apparent genius and cuteness;)
 
2012-09-02 10:27:17 AM  

Type40: A literal re-visitng of a classic story in the stye of DS9 "trouble with tribbles". The companion runs away from some monster, takes shelter in the TARDIS and we see the classic console room and Jon Pertwee at the controls. My origional idea was for it to bee Dinosaurs in London with all the effects updated (Thought of this before the promos for next weeks episodes) I would also have included young and old Sarah Janes, pitty that's impossible now.



The first part is played with in "Last Night", although it's just a younger version of the same Doctor, not an earlier Doctor.

As for your second point, yes, actually, we're getting toward the right time to see Sarah Jane at that age, The gal who played her adolescent self in "Whatever Happened to Sarah Jane?", Jessica Ashworth, is almost the same age now as Elisabeth Sladen was in "Invasion of the Dinosaurs", and looks similar enough -- particularly with a little prosthetic makeup to sharpen her chin, her hair done right, and having her affect a more Northern accent. Her cheeks and eyes are pretty close as they are.
 
2012-09-02 10:32:55 AM  

Mike Chewbacca: I didn't like the episode.

Rory and Amy are divorced, which is completely contrived and intended to shock us. It's also totally unbelievable.
Amy left because she wanted Rory to have kids. Have you ever heard of adoption? Stupid, stupid contrived reason to end a relationship yet still allows...
Rory and Amy declare their eternal love for each other at the end and get back together. CONTRIVED!

Also, as soon as the Doctor said, "You're cold" I knew the chick was a Dalek, or something like that. My mind instantly flashed to Bathilda Bagshot in Harry Potter, and I just knew.
Also foresaw the zombie Daleks.
Also totally figured out Oswin was a Dalek (at least like the black guy was, Dalek-ish, I suppose) as soon as black dude outed himself. It was so obvious.

The only cool part was the bit at the end where the Daleks forget who the Doctor is. I saw it coming when she made the other Daleks forget him, but I love the implication so much that I'm willing to look beyond its obviousness.


Do you want a medal?
 
2012-09-02 10:40:36 AM  
I enjoyed the episode. Not as hokey as the others. They had the special weapons Dalek, and references to the original DW(the planets namedropped) so it's all good.
 
2012-09-02 10:42:20 AM  

t3knomanser: whizbangthedirtfarmer: JNT didn't take over as executive producer until a few years into Baker's run

Wrong Baker.


Yes, I was discussing Colin Baker, as I was responding to the previous poster's comments.

Oh do keep up. 6th Doc >
 
2012-09-02 10:48:16 AM  

demonfaerie:
That reminds me, what will make sense 10 episodes from now? Obviously the new companion becomes human. How? She asks him to remember her.

Maybe she nanoed him up with her thoughts or something without him realizing it? She is a human genius, and a Dalek at the same time.


That's my guess. Either she escaped the planet destruction and uses/reprograms the nono tech to turn herself back human or she reprogrammed the nanobots to infect the Doctor (he had taken off the watch) to make him somehow recreate her. If Plan A then she could meet the doctor and since he would not recognise her (because he never saw her) or recognise her voice (because her projected/imagined voice will always be different to her real voice the same way we all think our voice sounds strange on a tape recording) she will become a companion without the Doctor knowing who she is, and that's why she changed her name. She doesn't want the Doctor to know she is a Dalek (see how at the end when he said "You're a Dalek" he said it with hate, not pity. She knows he would never trust her or accept her if he knew she was a dalek, hence the name change.) We will have a companion who has a big secret hidden from the Doctor.
 
2012-09-02 10:49:16 AM  

Swordfighting_monk: I personally think that Oswin 'hacked' Amy Pond, with the nanos. Eventually, those nanos are going to rewrite Amy mentally and physically, till Oswin is reborn, with all of her memories, and personality carried over.
Would kind of....mirror the Doctor's regeneration in many ways. Amy wouldn't be entirely 'gone' as evidenced by the 'survivor' Dalek drone's memories whom the gang first met beaming down to the planet. So you would have a sort of...blend? of Amy's strong will and toughness, with Oswin's apparent genius and cuteness;)


Possible. Quote from Gillan in an article in yesterday's The Mail: "I couldn't have wished for a better way to go. People assume my character is going to die. But that's not necessarily the case. It might not be that clear-cut."
 
2012-09-02 10:49:48 AM  

Fast Moon:
-- "Moffat Female, Type II": There are two female character templates that Steven Moffat knows how to write: The one who follows the male lead around like a puppy and wants into his pants, like Amy Pond or Molly Hooper, and the one who is "strong and independent" and manages to outwit the male lead for a while, but is ultimately bested by the him and wants into his pants, like River Song and Irene Adler, and now apparently Oswin. Either way, he's just so damn virile that every woman who sees him wants him.


Never seen Coupling then?
 
2012-09-02 10:59:08 AM  

Fast Moon: Characters rarely get the chance to display or build their relationships onscreen, anything that happens between them is waved off as happening offscreen,


BBCA didn't show us this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01mmqtt/Doctor_Who_Pond_Life/

Leads into the news season......

Love the reaction to Mata Hari
 
2012-09-02 11:02:44 AM  

Swordfighting_monk: I personally think that Oswin 'hacked' Amy Pond, with the nanos. Eventually, those nanos are going to rewrite Amy mentally and physically, till Oswin is reborn, with all of her memories, and personality carried over.

Would kind of....mirror the Doctor's regeneration in many ways. Amy wouldn't be entirely 'gone' as evidenced by the 'survivor' Dalek drone's memories whom the gang first met beaming down to the planet. So you would have a sort of...blend? of Amy's strong will and toughness, with Oswin's apparent genius and cuteness;)


That could be interesting and tragic. It would also be exactly the same as Fred dying and becoming Ilyria in Angel.
 
2012-09-02 11:04:12 AM  
"Dont push that Dalek Rory your touch is full of temporal particles....
that activate hybernating.."

(dusty bits of Dalek brain blob fall out of vents)

"No, wait, that one's definitly dead. "

/synopsis of the synapses

Now the Daleks will have to look the Doctor up on the internet to decide what beautiful way they hate him.


"Doc-tor. Your history is full of cheap sets, mysterious Die-reck-tors. Ex-trapolate! We will find the Rose and frighten all of your storytelling horses."
 
2012-09-02 11:06:04 AM  

arasmin: BBCA didn't show us this:


True, but even there, they didn't really show us the ripples in the Pond house. The last minute gives us a, "Hey, look, trouble in paradise!" It's equally out of nowhere.

I have to say that the Amy/Rory drama felt like a filler, B-plot. That includes the whole nano-cloud.
 
2012-09-02 11:07:27 AM  
A couple of posters on earlier pages complained about how Amy & Rory's breakup was just stuck in there with no lead up and no drama behind it. That's not an entirely unfair criticism. They seem fine together in April-July, then suddenly the pair are angry when he leaves in August, but with no dialogue, then they run through it summarily with a minute of exposition on the transporter pad.

Perhaps we will get to see it played out in flashback. "The Power of Three" which airs twenty days from now and is the couple's penultimate episode before their story ends in "Angels in Manhattan" the following week, has this for a synopsis: "The episode takes place over the course of 1 year." It is told through the Ponds' perspective of having a Mad Man with a Box turn up on your doorstep all the time and how that affects you."

It remains to be seen whether that year is (from Amy & Rory's perspective) after "A Town Called Mercy" or if it overlaps Pond Life via flashback.
 
2012-09-02 11:11:28 AM  

t3knomanser: arasmin: BBCA didn't show us this:

True, but even there, they didn't really show us the ripples in the Pond house. The last minute gives us a, "Hey, look, trouble in paradise!" It's equally out of nowhere.

I have to say that the Amy/Rory drama felt like a filler, B-plot. That includes the whole nano-cloud.


True. The nano-cloud is somewhat contrived. But it wuld be kind of amusing to see an eye-stalk on Smith.

But you got to admit the lunch box for Rory was funny.

And I still want to know what happened to the Ood.
 
2012-09-02 11:18:03 AM  

arasmin: And I still want to know what happened to the Ood.


The Doctor picked him up between episodes 4 and 5 when Amy & Rory were out; he mentions this in the deleted phone message. I do hope he at least left them a note so they weren't panicked, thinking that they had an Ood wandering about their neighbourhood, whom they had to try to catch before their neighbours or the police found him. The Doctor took the Ood to wherever it was where he had been taking him before.
 
2012-09-02 11:20:07 AM  

HopScotchNSoda: Swordfighting_monk: I personally think that Oswin 'hacked' Amy Pond, with the nanos. Eventually, those nanos are going to rewrite Amy mentally and physically, till Oswin is reborn, with all of her memories, and personality carried over.
Would kind of....mirror the Doctor's regeneration in many ways. Amy wouldn't be entirely 'gone' as evidenced by the 'survivor' Dalek drone's memories whom the gang first met beaming down to the planet. So you would have a sort of...blend? of Amy's strong will and toughness, with Oswin's apparent genius and cuteness;)

Possible. Quote from Gillan in an article in yesterday's The Mail: "I couldn't have wished for a better way to go. People assume my character is going to die. But that's not necessarily the case. It might not be that clear-cut."


I think it was all foreshadowed. The nanos don't turn Amy into Oswin. The nanos enable Amy into conceive a child, which probably undergoes rapid development into a new, fully-grown Oswin.
 
2012-09-02 11:22:47 AM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Some reviewer said that there was an oft-repeated Tennant quote in Asylum, but I can't remember what it was...did anyone catch it?

/Alonsee?


"Oswin, I am so sorry, but you are a dalek." It definitely did remind me of Tennant, I wondered if it was intentional.

HopScotchNSoda: Swordfighting_monk: I personally think that Oswin 'hacked' Amy Pond, with the nanos. Eventually, those nanos are going to rewrite Amy mentally and physically, till Oswin is reborn, with all of her memories, and personality carried over.
Would kind of....mirror the Doctor's regeneration in many ways. Amy wouldn't be entirely 'gone' as evidenced by the 'survivor' Dalek drone's memories whom the gang first met beaming down to the planet. So you would have a sort of...blend? of Amy's strong will and toughness, with Oswin's apparent genius and cuteness;)

Possible. Quote from Gillan in an article in yesterday's The Mail: "I couldn't have wished for a better way to go. People assume my character is going to die. But that's not necessarily the case. It might not be that clear-cut."


I had assumed that they get Angeled back in time, but this explanation really could work. Though I don't know how the Doctor would react to her taking over his best friend... I don't think that he would take that very well. If he just accepted it and bonded with her, I don't know that it would be very believable.

Flint Ironstag: ... She doesn't want the Doctor to know she is a Dalek (see how at the end when he said "You're a Dalek" he said it with hate, not pity. She knows he would never trust her or accept her if he knew she was a dalek, hence the name change.) We will have a companion who has a big secret hidden from the Doctor.


He did have pity in his voice when he said that he was sorry, but the anger at the daleks was certainly there. I'm not sure that the anger was directed at her, or the fact that she had been fully converted for her genius. And I genuinely think that she wasn't trying to hide the fact that she was a dalek from them, but had herself fooled as well, judging from her reaction to the revelation.
 
2012-09-02 11:30:09 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: They're not really Daleks though, are they?

They seemed to be just basic probes or droids, not full fledged Daleks.


I assumed they were just the updated version of the old Robo-men.
 
2012-09-02 11:38:22 AM  

arasmin: And I still want to know what happened to the Ood.


They're out there, somewhere, being Ood.

/they're the best thing RTD contributed to the series.
//Them and the baby fat monsters.
 
2012-09-02 11:38:22 AM  

sinanju:

Possible. Quote from Gillan in an article in yesterday's The Mail: "I couldn't have wished for a better way to go. People assume my character is going to die. But that's not necessarily the case. It might not be that clear-cut."

I think it was all foreshadowed. The nanos don't turn Amy into Oswin. The nanos enable Amy into conceive a child, which probably undergoes rapid development into a new, fully-grown Oswin.


That sounds very plausible and cool. Her look to the camera at the end saying "remember me" certainly suggested she had done something to ensure she would survive in one way or another. It could also explain the name change. But how does that explain what happens to Amy? Dies in childbirth?
 
2012-09-02 11:38:48 AM  
Just now, thinking about Amy & Rory's swan song will be in Manhattan, and will feature River, where she had regenerated from their little girl into their best mate, something dawned on me: Melody went black and did go back.
 
2012-09-02 11:39:14 AM  

Public Call Box: t3knomanser: whizbangthedirtfarmer: JNT didn't take over as executive producer until a few years into Baker's run

Wrong Baker.

Yes, I was discussing Colin Baker, as I was responding to the previous poster's comments.

Oh do keep up. 6th Doc >


Oh, I had seen him referred as Baker 2 earlier on. When I saw just Baker, I thought WTF? My mistake. But yes, Colin Baker was absolutely screwed. Stupid costume, horrible casting, ridiculous plots (with the exception of a few) really screwed Colin Baker over. That, and his kid dying of SIDS right before his run, I think, just kind of knocked him off balance before he could even get started.
 
2012-09-02 11:40:35 AM  

Luthien's Tempest:

He did have pity in his voice when he said that he was sorry, but the anger at the daleks was certainly there. I'm not sure that the anger was directed at her, or the fact that she had been fully converted for her genius. And I genuinely think that she wasn't trying to hide the fact that she was a dalek from them, but had herself fooled as well, judging from her reaction to the revelation.


I meant that she would try to hide that if and when she met the Doctor again in the future. She would have thought "If I tell him who I am he'll know I'm a Dalek and he'll hate me/never trust me, so I'll change my name and he'll never know."
 
2012-09-02 11:52:13 AM  

Flint Ironstag: Luthien's Tempest:

He did have pity in his voice when he said that he was sorry, but the anger at the daleks was certainly there. I'm not sure that the anger was directed at her, or the fact that she had been fully converted for her genius. And I genuinely think that she wasn't trying to hide the fact that she was a dalek from them, but had herself fooled as well, judging from her reaction to the revelation.

I meant that she would try to hide that if and when she met the Doctor again in the future. She would have thought "If I tell him who I am he'll know I'm a Dalek and he'll hate me/never trust me, so I'll change my name and he'll never know."


Maybe, but I just don't see even a genius being able to hide that from the Doctor. He trusted her when he already had a pretty good idea that she was a dalek throughout the episode, and I think she's smart enough to realize that he knew.

And, I get a sneaking suspicion that, if the companion and Oswin are one in the same, the Doctor will have to have something to do with her continued/renewed existence. I don't think that she survives the planet exploding and makes herself human again all on her own. She is a genius, so maybe it is possible, or maybe her help comes from elsewhere, but I think the "remember me" line had more significance than just that he should remember her and her will, smarts, and sacrifice for the sake of remembering.
 
2012-09-02 11:56:34 AM  

Swordfighting_monk: I personally think that Oswin 'hacked' Amy Pond, with the nanos. Eventually, those nanos are going to rewrite Amy mentally and physically, till Oswin is reborn, with all of her memories, and personality carried over.

Would kind of....mirror the Doctor's regeneration in many ways. Amy wouldn't be entirely 'gone' as evidenced by the 'survivor' Dalek drone's memories whom the gang first met beaming down to the planet. So you would have a sort of...blend? of Amy's strong will and toughness, with Oswin's apparent genius and cuteness;)


Which fits nicely with Amy's hallucination as her mind was being overwritten. The ballerina, mirroring the music box in Oswin's imagined room. The people in formal dress greeting each other, that's something the junior entertainment director on a luxury liner would see frequently. Interesting.
 
2012-09-02 12:01:51 PM  
I just stumbled upon the extended "The First Question" 50th anniversary teaser trailer. Wow. Just ... awesome.
 
2012-09-02 12:12:00 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Public Call Box: t3knomanser: whizbangthedirtfarmer: JNT didn't take over as executive producer until a few years into Baker's run

Wrong Baker.

Yes, I was discussing Colin Baker, as I was responding to the previous poster's comments.

Oh do keep up. 6th Doc >

Oh, I had seen him referred as Baker 2 earlier on. When I saw just Baker, I thought WTF? My mistake. But yes, Colin Baker was absolutely screwed. Stupid costume, horrible casting, ridiculous plots (with the exception of a few) really screwed Colin Baker over. That, and his kid dying of SIDS right before his run, I think, just kind of knocked him off balance before he could even get started.


Agreed, it one of the reasons while I believe his Doctor should be judged based on his Big Finish audios. He turns in astounding performances, and has the emotional distance needed to turn those performances.

But having said that, I enjoy Vengence on Varos, and to a lesser extent Attack of the Cybermen, and Revelation of the Daleks too.
 
2012-09-02 12:40:07 PM  

Luthien's Tempest: And, I get a sneaking suspicion that, if the companion and Oswin are one in the same, the Doctor will have to have something to do with her continued/renewed existence. I don't think that she survives the planet exploding and makes herself human again all on her own. She is a genius, so maybe it is possible, or maybe her help comes from elsewhere, but I think the "remember me" line had more significance than just that he should remember her and her will, smarts, and sacrifice for the sake of remembering.


That leads to my only question out of last night's episode: why didn't the Doctor bring the Oswin/Dalek with them on the teleporter? Letting a human Dalek loose among the Dalek Parliament would have caused all sorts of trouble for the Daleks.
 
2012-09-02 12:45:47 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: That leads to my only question out of last night's episode: why didn't the Doctor bring the Oswin/Dalek with them on the teleporter? Letting a human Dalek loose among the Dalek Parliament would have caused all sorts of trouble for the Daleks.


Perhaps, but would also have run the risk of having an insane Dalek with that incredible level of hacking skill running about the universe, having now realised what was done to her and going even madder still as a result.
 
2012-09-02 12:54:42 PM  

Luthien's Tempest: I think the "remember me" line had more significance than just that he should remember her and her will, smarts, and sacrifice for the sake of remembering.


Exactly. I think that is a hint that she had done something, like reprogram the nonobots, that would ensure her survival/resurrection.

The realisation that she was a Dalek may have been a shock, but it also means that after a year of living in denial and sabotaging things she would suddenly realise what she was actually capable of.
 
2012-09-02 01:20:07 PM  

Shazam999: Mike Chewbacca: I didn't like the episode.

Rory and Amy are divorced, which is completely contrived and intended to shock us. It's also totally unbelievable.
Amy left because she wanted Rory to have kids. Have you ever heard of adoption? Stupid, stupid contrived reason to end a relationship yet still allows...
Rory and Amy declare their eternal love for each other at the end and get back together. CONTRIVED!

Eh, I know people who divorced over this. It's not contrived at all.


I do, too. But it IS contrived because there was absolutely no reason for this except to shock the audience at the beginning of the episode. How do i know this? Because they get back together after a 1 minute conversation. Too bad they disnt have that 1 minute conversation six months ago, huh? And, Rory guarded Amy in the Pandorica for TWO THOUSAND YEARS. We're not talking about Ted and Robin breaking up because their life goals are incompatible. We're talking about two people who would and literally have died for each other BOTH wanting kids. Clearly they must break up. Or, I don't know, JUST ADOPT.
 
2012-09-02 01:22:51 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: Perhaps, but would also have run the risk of having an insane Dalek with that incredible level of hacking skill running about the universe, having now realised what was done to her and going even madder still as a result.


Yeah, but look at the damage she'd managed to do to the Dalek Asylum while she was there. Let loose among the Dalek high command, she would have assured that they'd never be a threat to the Universe again.
 
2012-09-02 01:24:21 PM  
The POST sequence for a Dalek is:

OS: WIN
OS: GOOD
 
2012-09-02 01:28:04 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: HopScotchNSoda: Perhaps, but would also have run the risk of having an insane Dalek with that incredible level of hacking skill running about the universe, having now realised what was done to her and going even madder still as a result.

Yeah, but look at the damage she'd managed to do to the Dalek Asylum while she was there. Let loose among the Dalek high command, she would have assured that they'd never be a threat to the Universe again.



I think it's reasonable however to view her as a bigger danger to the universe than the Daleks are.
 
2012-09-02 01:29:35 PM  
By the way, I love Rory and Amy. Especially Rory. He's the farking Centurion, for fark's sake. The fact that I like them so much is why I hated the contrived bullshiat divorce.
 
2012-09-02 01:30:33 PM  

Dr. Whoof: FirstNationalBastard: /I have no idea who Twilight Sparkle represents.

Martha Jones. Seriously, they have very similar personalities, or as similar as a pony and a fictional Doctor Who companion can have.


Exactly my thought!
 
2012-09-02 01:32:41 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Shazam999: Mike Chewbacca: I didn't like the episode.

Rory and Amy are divorced, which is completely contrived and intended to shock us. It's also totally unbelievable.
Amy left because she wanted Rory to have kids. Have you ever heard of adoption? Stupid, stupid contrived reason to end a relationship yet still allows...
Rory and Amy declare their eternal love for each other at the end and get back together. CONTRIVED!

Eh, I know people who divorced over this. It's not contrived at all.

I do, too. But it IS contrived because there was absolutely no reason for this except to shock the audience at the beginning of the episode. How do i know this? Because they get back together after a 1 minute conversation. Too bad they disnt have that 1 minute conversation six months ago, huh? And, Rory guarded Amy in the Pandorica for TWO THOUSAND YEARS. We're not talking about Ted and Robin breaking up because their life goals are incompatible. We're talking about two people who would and literally have died for each other BOTH wanting kids. Clearly they must break up. Or, I don't know, JUST ADOPT.


I could imagine that after travelling with the Doctor, with literally all of time and space to explore and all the danger and excitement involved suddenly being dumped back into a normal life with work, doing the laundry, cooking breakfast, paying the bills etc would be a huge shock and difficult to come to terms with. We say Amy being excited to be back in the thick of it, so clearly she had been bored.

How could you adjust to that after spending a year or so in the Tardis? How do any of the ex companions adjust? How could anyone look up at the stars, or read a history book or watch a sci-fi movie without knowing it's out there but they're now stuck here on Earth in 2012 and they'll never get to see it again.
 
2012-09-02 01:41:17 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: I just stumbled upon the extended "The First Question" 50th anniversary teaser trailer. Wow. Just ... awesome.


anokchan.com

/that awesome
 
2012-09-02 01:43:45 PM  

Flint Ironstag: demonfaerie:
That reminds me, what will make sense 10 episodes from now? Obviously the new companion becomes human. How? She asks him to remember her.

Maybe she nanoed him up with her thoughts or something without him realizing it? She is a human genius, and a Dalek at the same time.

That's my guess. Either she escaped the planet destruction and uses/reprograms the nono tech to turn herself back human or she reprogrammed the nanobots to infect the Doctor (he had taken off the watch) to make him somehow recreate her. If Plan A then she could meet the doctor and since he would not recognise her (because he never saw her) or recognise her voice (because her projected/imagined voice will always be different to her real voice the same way we all think our voice sounds strange on a tape recording) she will become a companion without the Doctor knowing who she is, and that's why she changed her name. She doesn't want the Doctor to know she is a Dalek (see how at the end when he said "You're a Dalek" he said it with hate, not pity. She knows he would never trust her or accept her if he knew she was a dalek, hence the name change.) We will have a companion who has a big secret hidden from the Doctor.


Her finding out she was a Dalek was so heartbreaking, but she had the power to over come the evil, and help the Doctor. He will never forget that, but I think you are right that she might be afraid of telling who she is, if she does comes back somehow. I wonder if they will use the nano technology to bring back River Song.
 
2012-09-02 01:47:10 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Mike Chewbacca: Shazam999: Mike Chewbacca: I didn't like the episode.

Rory and Amy are divorced, which is completely contrived and intended to shock us. It's also totally unbelievable.
Amy left because she wanted Rory to have kids. Have you ever heard of adoption? Stupid, stupid contrived reason to end a relationship yet still allows...
Rory and Amy declare their eternal love for each other at the end and get back together. CONTRIVED!

Eh, I know people who divorced over this. It's not contrived at all.

I do, too. But it IS contrived because there was absolutely no reason for this except to shock the audience at the beginning of the episode. How do i know this? Because they get back together after a 1 minute conversation. Too bad they disnt have that 1 minute conversation six months ago, huh? And, Rory guarded Amy in the Pandorica for TWO THOUSAND YEARS. We're not talking about Ted and Robin breaking up because their life goals are incompatible. We're talking about two people who would and literally have died for each other BOTH wanting kids. Clearly they must break up. Or, I don't know, JUST ADOPT.

I could imagine that after travelling with the Doctor, with literally all of time and space to explore and all the danger and excitement involved suddenly being dumped back into a normal life with work, doing the laundry, cooking breakfast, paying the bills etc would be a huge shock and difficult to come to terms with. We say Amy being excited to be back in the thick of it, so clearly she had been bored.

How could you adjust to that after spending a year or so in the Tardis? How do any of the ex companions adjust? How could anyone look up at the stars, or read a history book or watch a sci-fi movie without knowing it's out there but they're now stuck here on Earth in 2012 and they'll never get to see it again.


Except that neither character said anything about the tedium of normal life taking its toll. The issue was that Amy can't have kids, so she left him.
 
2012-09-02 01:48:38 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Rory and Amy are divorced, which is completely contrived and intended to shock us. It's also totally unbelievable.
Amy left because she wanted Rory to have kids. Have you ever heard of adoption? Stupid, stupid contrived reason to end a relationship yet still allows...
Rory and Amy declare their eternal love for each other at the end and get back together. CONTRIVED!


Add me to the chorus of those of you who hated this. You travel time and space for a few years. You see things that most humans can't even conceive of, but adoption seems somehow outside the realm of possibility.

And..."I'll survive longer because I love you more than you love me". Blech. If I have one wish for this show, can we please stop making it SO much about the romantic relationships of the characters?

Otherwise, ep was good 'nuff for me.
 
2012-09-02 01:53:57 PM  

Six_By_Nine: Mike Chewbacca: Rory and Amy are divorced, which is completely contrived and intended to shock us. It's also totally unbelievable.
Amy left because she wanted Rory to have kids. Have you ever heard of adoption? Stupid, stupid contrived reason to end a relationship yet still allows...
Rory and Amy declare their eternal love for each other at the end and get back together. CONTRIVED!

Add me to the chorus of those of you who hated this. You travel time and space for a few years. You see things that most humans can't even conceive of, but adoption seems somehow outside the realm of possibility.

And..."I'll survive longer because I love you more than you love me". Blech. If I have one wish for this show, can we please stop making it SO much about the romantic relationships of the characters?

Otherwise, ep was good 'nuff for me.


I thought that line what Rory said made sense, because a lot of people who watch Doctor Who thought the same thing; that Rory loved Amy more than Amy loved Rory. Here is proof that they are both equally in love with each other, and she made an ultimate sacrifice by giving him up so he could have children of his own. Sometimes people don't want to adopt, they want to have biological children. To bad River Song can't just pop out a kid so they could have grandchildren.
 
2012-09-02 01:56:36 PM  

demonfaerie: Six_By_Nine: Mike Chewbacca: Rory and Amy are divorced, which is completely contrived and intended to shock us. It's also totally unbelievable.
Amy left because she wanted Rory to have kids. Have you ever heard of adoption? Stupid, stupid contrived reason to end a relationship yet still allows...
Rory and Amy declare their eternal love for each other at the end and get back together. CONTRIVED!

Add me to the chorus of those of you who hated this. You travel time and space for a few years. You see things that most humans can't even conceive of, but adoption seems somehow outside the realm of possibility.

And..."I'll survive longer because I love you more than you love me". Blech. If I have one wish for this show, can we please stop making it SO much about the romantic relationships of the characters?

Otherwise, ep was good 'nuff for me.

I thought that line what Rory said made sense, because a lot of people who watch Doctor Who thought the same thing; that Rory loved Amy more than Amy loved Rory. Here is proof that they are both equally in love with each other, and she made an ultimate sacrifice by giving him up so he could have children of his own. Sometimes people don't want to adopt, they want to have biological children. To bad River Song can't just pop out a kid so they could have grandchildren.


Wow, hey, I haven't seen the episode yet, but that's pretty goddamned stupid. That's a plot "twist" reminiscent of Sherlock, for chrissakes. "Well, I can't have kids, so I'm ditching your ass so you can go find someone else, therefore I am both a martyr and a biatch all in one fell swoop! Hooray!"
 
2012-09-02 02:05:47 PM  
The Rory and Amy debate...

Many of you seem to like Amy Pond, or are too blinded by ZOMG REDHEAD SQUEEEEEEE to notice, but Amy has pretty much always been a stupid, thoughtless biatch. Her actions from last night's episode are no different than, say, running off with the Doctor on her wedding day, or her usual treating Rory like shiat.

Yeah, last night's forced romance scenes were annoying, but not out of character.
 
2012-09-02 02:06:26 PM  

Flint Ironstag: I could imagine that after travelling with the Doctor, with literally all of time and space to explore and all the danger and excitement involved suddenly being dumped back into a normal life with work, doing the laundry, cooking breakfast, paying the bills etc would be a huge shock and difficult to come to terms with. We say Amy being excited to be back in the thick of it, so clearly she had been bored.

How could you adjust to that after spending a year or so in the Tardis? How do any of the ex companions adjust? How could anyone look up at the stars, or read a history book or watch a sci-fi movie without knowing it's out there but they're now stuck here on Earth in 2012 and they'll never get to see it again.



That was examined a bit with Sarah Jane Smith, both in "School Reunion" and periodically in The Sarah Jane Adventures. No man was able to compare, she grew old alone and a with a view of the universe that interfered with essentially all of her relationships. It wasn't just not finding a husband; she couldn't or wouldn't socialize with other humans, finding them rather tedious. The only close adult relationship she had in TSJA was her alien supercomputer which she called "Mr Smith". Sure, she kept in limited with the Brigadier, but it was made clear in the one time he guest starred that they hadn't seen each other in years.

When people criticised marrying off Martha and Mickey because they were both negroes (despite the fact that Donna kept up her jungle fever in the very same episode), I disagreed. I noted that Mickey & Martha were the only age appropriate people for each other who could at all relate to the impossible things they saw, what they did, and what happened to them. And like SJS, they couldn't take regular jobs, and had to go hunting aliens. Sara Jane likewise noted that Ian & Barbara and Ben & Polly stayed together. Leela, Peri, and Mel each hooked up with men from beyond the stars.
 
2012-09-02 02:11:05 PM  

demonfaerie: To bad River Song can't just pop out a kid so they could have grandchildren.


No, it can't happen. Not only does she look post-menopausal, but River/Mels isn't black anymore.
 
2012-09-02 02:12:32 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: No, it can't happen. Not only does she look post-menopausal, but River/Mels isn't black anymore


There's always a next regeneration. And before you say, "But she used the last of her regenerations to save the Doctor!", let me remind you: it doesn't fricking matter. No matter how often a Time Lord character has given up their last regeneration, there's always more where that came from.
 
2012-09-02 02:13:37 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: I just stumbled upon the extended "The First Question" 50th anniversary teaser trailer. Wow. Just ... awesome.


Would be more awesome if it were official, but it's fan made. Still, very well done.
 
2012-09-02 02:22:35 PM  

Type40: The Clone doctor from the alternate universe (David Tennant) turns up determined to get his regenerations back from the real doctor. He has all the doctors memorys and is now stuck on alt earth with a family pof chavs, it shouldn't take him long to go completely insane, kill them all and come after the doctor.


It's the Valyard!
 
2012-09-02 02:41:34 PM  

t3knomanser: HopScotchNSoda: No, it can't happen. Not only does she look post-menopausal, but River/Mels isn't black anymore
There's always a next regeneration. And before you say, "But she used the last of her regenerations to save the Doctor!", let me remind you: it doesn't fricking matter. No matter how often a Time Lord character has given up their last regeneration, there's always more where that came from.


That wouldn't be my reason for objecting. Rather, it would be because we know that the regeneration from this current self is the uploading of her consciousness into the Library computer.

Meanwhile, she said in "Let's Kill Hitler" that she can revere-age (which explained how a little girl in January 1970 could be the schoolmate of a girl born in 1993). It is conceivable [no pun intended] that she could de-age just her lady parts, and have her mum squirt her sibling's zygote up in there. But I do not think for a second that such will come to pass. At the very least, it would further extend the series only whole family of companions (Donna & Wilfred can hardly compare) beyond all reason.

If they were going to get a surrogate, I actually see them hiring Strax to do it. Rory would be incredulous at first: "A Sontaran? You want a Sontaran to carry our child? Isn't he, you know, a, well, man?" But Amy is the boss in their house: "The Doctor said they're like hermaphrodites ... or ...something ... whatever. Who else would you suggest? Some girl from a want ad? Can you think of anyone -- in the entire universe -- whom you would trust more to protect our unborn child than him ... or her?"  Rory would promptly agree.
 
2012-09-02 02:52:27 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: If they were going to get a surrogate, I actually see them hiring Strax to do it.


That's way to "adult themed" to be on Doctor Who, but holy shiat I want a 6 episode spinoff series structured as a 30 minute sitcom built around that premise.
 
2012-09-02 03:01:13 PM  
When I heard the title of the episode, I thought asylum meant the Daleks needed protection from another alien force. Once the episode got started, however, I realized I was wrong. I did feel sorry for the insane Daleks though.
 
2012-09-02 03:09:42 PM  

t3knomanser: HopScotchNSoda: If they were going to get a surrogate, I actually see them hiring Strax to do it.
That's way to "adult themed" to be on Doctor Who, but holy shiat I want a 6 episode spinoff series structured as a 30 minute sitcom built around that premise.


You do know about the "Doctor Who' All-Lesbian Christmas" coming up, right?

My fear that such a sitcom as you describe would find itself falling back on just being about who is more uncomfortable: Strax or Rory. That and Strax's hormones making him alternatively hungry and furious at their Ood butler all day while Amy and Rory are out at work. That Strax is now (or will have been by this year's Christmas special) an experienced butler himself can only add fuel to the fire.
 
2012-09-02 04:12:00 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: I just stumbled upon the extended "The First Question" 50th anniversary teaser trailer. Wow. Just ... awesome.


Rwa2play: /that awesome


Link 

Yes. Yes indeed.
 
2012-09-02 04:30:53 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: Flint Ironstag: I could imagine that after travelling with the Doctor, with literally all of time and space to explore and all the danger and excitement involved suddenly being dumped back into a normal life with work, doing the laundry, cooking breakfast, paying the bills etc would be a huge shock and difficult to come to terms with. We say Amy being excited to be back in the thick of it, so clearly she had been bored.

How could you adjust to that after spending a year or so in the Tardis? How do any of the ex companions adjust? How could anyone look up at the stars, or read a history book or watch a sci-fi movie without knowing it's out there but they're now stuck here on Earth in 2012 and they'll never get to see it again.


That was examined a bit with Sarah Jane Smith, both in "School Reunion" and periodically in The Sarah Jane Adventures. No man was able to compare, she grew old alone and a with a view of the universe that interfered with essentially all of her relationships. It wasn't just not finding a husband; she couldn't or wouldn't socialize with other humans, finding them rather tedious. The only close adult relationship she had in TSJA was her alien supercomputer which she called "Mr Smith". Sure, she kept in limited with the Brigadier, but it was made clear in the one time he guest starred that they hadn't seen each other in years.

When people criticised marrying off Martha and Mickey because they were both negroes (despite the fact that Donna kept up her jungle fever in the very same episode), I disagreed. I noted that Mickey & Martha were the only age appropriate people for each other who could at all relate to the impossible things they saw, what they did, and what happened to them. And like SJS, they couldn't take regular jobs, and had to go hunting aliens. Sara Jane likewise noted that Ian & Barbara and Ben & Polly stayed together. Leela, Peri, and Mel each hooked up with men from beyond the stars.


We also find out that Jo hardly lived a normal earth life, running off to remote places on earth, hanging out in the Amazon and all that jazz.

Basically, it appears that returning to earth after traveling with the Doctor is like having the absolute worst reverse culture shock you could possibly imagine, and unlike when you're having reverse culture shock from living abroad, there's almost nobody who can understand your experience. Your life is never going to be the same after traveling with the Doctor and if you even try to tell somebody about what happened they'll think you're completely batty,
 
2012-09-02 05:15:43 PM  

wookiemonster: Seriously, the eye stalk and gun are just too over the top.


Surely an updated version of the Dalek servants in Resurrection of the Daleks:
upload.wikimedia.org 

(See the man in the background with the Dalek eye-stalk helmet and the gun that fits over his hand.)
 
2012-09-02 05:24:04 PM  

flamingboar: When I heard the title of the episode, I thought asylum meant the Daleks needed protection from another alien force. Once the episode got started, however, I realized I was wrong. I did feel sorry for the insane Daleks though.


Let us define an insane dalek as one that wishes to attack The Doctor...
 
2012-09-02 05:25:56 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: demonfaerie: To bad River Song can't just pop out a kid so they could have grandchildren.

No, it can't happen. Not only does she look post-menopausal, but River/Mels isn't black anymore.



THAT'S XENIST!
 
2012-09-02 05:44:28 PM  

demonfaerie: she made an ultimate sacrifice by giving him up so he could have children of his own.


Somehow, him going 2000 years without having children doesn't equate to her breaking up with him for not being able to give him children at all.

And I'm sorry breaking up with someone does not count as "ultimate sacrifice". Waiting 2000 years for someone, now THAT is an ultimate sacrifice.
 
2012-09-02 06:09:28 PM  

BarryJV: wookiemonster: Seriously, the eye stalk and gun are just too over the top.

Surely an updated version of the Dalek servants in Resurrection of the Daleks:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 640x497] 

(See the man in the background with the Dalek eye-stalk helmet and the gun that fits over his hand.)


Which was an update of this guy:

tardisadventure.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-09-02 06:11:44 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Shazam999: Mike Chewbacca: I didn't like the episode.

Rory and Amy are divorced, which is completely contrived and intended to shock us. It's also totally unbelievable.
Amy left because she wanted Rory to have kids. Have you ever heard of adoption? Stupid, stupid contrived reason to end a relationship yet still allows...
Rory and Amy declare their eternal love for each other at the end and get back together. CONTRIVED!

Eh, I know people who divorced over this. It's not contrived at all.

I do, too. But it IS contrived because there was absolutely no reason for this except to shock the audience at the beginning of the episode. How do i know this? Because they get back together after a 1 minute conversation. Too bad they disnt have that 1 minute conversation six months ago, huh? And, Rory guarded Amy in the Pandorica for TWO THOUSAND YEARS. We're not talking about Ted and Robin breaking up because their life goals are incompatible. We're talking about two people who would and literally have died for each other BOTH wanting kids. Clearly they must break up. Or, I don't know, JUST ADOPT.


What I am saying is that it's a perfectly reasonable plot point. Yes, they could adopt. Also, the Doctor should just go back in to the TARDIS after the start of each episode.
 
2012-09-02 06:20:06 PM  
I was expecting more. Wasn't bad, but wasn't super exciting.

Really wished the Special Weapons Dalek would have done something other than just sit there, decaying.
 
2012-09-02 06:43:42 PM  

BarryJV: wookiemonster: Seriously, the eye stalk and gun are just too over the top.

Surely an updated version of the Dalek servants in Resurrection of the Daleks:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 640x497] 

(See the man in the background with the Dalek eye-stalk helmet and the gun that fits over his hand.)


Is the bubble wrap to protect the pillow or the Doctor?
 
2012-09-02 06:54:43 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: BarryJV: wookiemonster: Seriously, the eye stalk and gun are just too over the top.

Surely an updated version of the Dalek servants in Resurrection of the Daleks:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 640x497] 

(See the man in the background with the Dalek eye-stalk helmet and the gun that fits over his hand.)

Is the bubble wrap to protect the pillow or the Doctor?


It's to piss off the sound guy by making lots of pops every time the actor moves.
 
2012-09-02 06:57:05 PM  
I'm watching the episode again, and when we first see Oswin, the Dalek are saying "We will enter!" I don't think they're trying to get into her shell; it's the group of Daleks trying to get into the room she's chained down in.

Also, if you watch it again, look at the shape of the room Oswin lives in; I think we're seeing the inside of something we're used to seeing the outside of.
 
2012-09-02 06:58:25 PM  
So, do we have a concensus? Were the sane Daleks unanimously afraid to go into the asylum because of the insane Daleks in general, or because of Oswin? Was the "Where did you get the milk?" line of questioning cut off because the Daleks were impatient and saw it as irrelevant, or because they knew the answer? Who placed Oswin in a room of her own, protected by a sentry of those who had survived the Doctor/Predator (her fellow inmates, or the sane Daleks)?

Darla's opening narration is a message to her daughter, Hanna. Oswin's narration includes wishing a happy birthday to her mother. Significance?
 
2012-09-02 07:12:21 PM  
While I wish the classic-model Daleks played a more active part in the story, remember the most recent props are about 25 years old, some date back almost half a century.
I doubt they could've been used without risking breaking them...
 
2012-09-02 07:13:19 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: So, do we have a concensus? Were the sane Daleks unanimously afraid to go into the asylum because of the insane Daleks in general, or because of Oswin? Was the "Where did you get the milk?" line of questioning cut off because the Daleks were impatient and saw it as irrelevant, or because they knew the answer? Who placed Oswin in a room of her own, protected by a sentry of those who had survived the Doctor/Predator (her fellow inmates, or the sane Daleks)?

Darla's opening narration is a message to her daughter, Hanna. Oswin's narration includes wishing a happy birthday to her mother. Significance?


Well, we know the Alaska did in fact crash into the Asylum, but we don't know when. Could have been a year ago as Oswin thinks, or it could have been long before that.

My feeling is that it was recent, Oswin was completely converted (for whatever reason) and that in less than a year she made an utter mess of the place trying to defend herself from "intruders".

On the other hand, it's possible that the Dalek thought it was Oswin had simply assumed that persona, was already locked up in the Asylum (at the heart of the Asylum) and was the maddest and most dangerous of them all, which would have meant that "she" had been there for a very long time.

Either way, even with the entire planet being automated, the Daleks should have known something very odd was going on.

One last question: how did the Alaska get through the force field?
 
2012-09-02 07:14:37 PM  
Heyyyyyy, check out Oswin's belt. Is it just me, or do those lines of studs running down look like she incorporated her "Dalek bumps" into her self-awareness? The rectangular electronics holsters along the side are also evocative of those vertical panels above the bumps, below the dome of most Daleks.
 
2012-09-02 07:15:32 PM  
HopScotchNSoda: I just stumbled upon the extended "The First Question" 50th anniversary teaser trailer. Wow. Just ... awesome

Wholly farkin' shait that was AWESOME!
 
2012-09-02 07:21:09 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: Heyyyyyy, check out Oswin's belt. Is it just me, or do those lines of studs running down look like she incorporated her "Dalek bumps" into her self-awareness? The rectangular electronics holsters along the side are also evocative of those vertical panels above the bumps, below the dome of most Daleks.


Upon closer inspection, I do believe she did stealthily incorporate "Dalek bumps" into her design

i6.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-02 07:22:02 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: Heyyyyyy, check out Oswin's belt. Is it just me, or do those lines of studs running down look like she incorporated her "Dalek bumps" into her self-awareness? The rectangular electronics holsters along the side are also evocative of those vertical panels above the bumps, below the dome of most Daleks.


Yeahhh, the more I look at it. Duh, of course. She even has an egg wisk hanging from her belt; she explained away her weapon as being a wisk.

She even wears the belt outside of her apron.
 
2012-09-02 07:22:51 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Upon closer inspection, I do believe she did stealthily incorporate "Dalek bumps" into her design


Those are etheric detectors!
 
2012-09-02 07:26:19 PM  

t3knomanser: FirstNationalBastard: Upon closer inspection, I do believe she did stealthily incorporate "Dalek bumps" into her design

Those are etheric detectors!


On a similar subject, I always wondered why Seven of Nine was the only regular Borg drone to have breasts. Did they serve a purpose? Were there nipple guns?
 
2012-09-02 07:27:12 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: HopScotchNSoda: Heyyyyyy, check out Oswin's belt. Is it just me, or do those lines of studs running down look like she incorporated her "Dalek bumps" into her self-awareness? The rectangular electronics holsters along the side are also evocative of those vertical panels above the bumps, below the dome of most Daleks.

Upon closer inspection, I do believe she did stealthily incorporate "Dalek bumps" into her design

[i6.photobucket.com image 164x148]


You think she has some more on her back as well? Because that could be....... Interesting.....
 
2012-09-02 07:29:20 PM  

Flint Ironstag: FirstNationalBastard: HopScotchNSoda: Heyyyyyy, check out Oswin's belt. Is it just me, or do those lines of studs running down look like she incorporated her "Dalek bumps" into her self-awareness? The rectangular electronics holsters along the side are also evocative of those vertical panels above the bumps, below the dome of most Daleks.

Upon closer inspection, I do believe she did stealthily incorporate "Dalek bumps" into her design

[i6.photobucket.com image 164x148]

You think she has some more on her back as well? Because that could be....... Interesting.....


For slow dancing?
 
2012-09-02 07:29:41 PM  

Flint Ironstag: FirstNationalBastard: HopScotchNSoda: Heyyyyyy, check out Oswin's belt. Is it just me, or do those lines of studs running down look like she incorporated her "Dalek bumps" into her self-awareness? The rectangular electronics holsters along the side are also evocative of those vertical panels above the bumps, below the dome of most Daleks.

Upon closer inspection, I do believe she did stealthily incorporate "Dalek bumps" into her design

[i6.photobucket.com image 164x148]

You think she has some more on her back as well? Because that could be....... Interesting.....


i6.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-02 07:36:44 PM  
One other thought. People twigged right away to Oswin's "Remember me" line, but there was another line in the show that seemed equally out of place, like it was a set up for things to come:

When the Doctor, Rory and Amy are brought before the Dalek Parliment (really, WTF?), one of them (I think Amy?) asks how they are going to survive this, and the Doctor says, "Make them remember you."

Now, by itself that line could seem basically like the Doctor is saying, "go out in a blaze of glory," but I don't think so. I think that meant something, much like Time of the Angels when the Doctor is speaking to the blinded Amy and we later find out it's his post-Pandorica self speaking. The line just didn't seem to fit quite right, and while that could be disregarded as just twitchy writing, I think Moffet is too clever not to have been dropping hints in this episode for the future. He loves doing that in the first episode so that at the end you go back and say, "oh, THAT'S what that meant."

Additionally, the light in Amy's dressing room that was blinking...looked like Morse code. Anyone got a recording of that bit that knows Morse and could try to translate? I have the feeling that was a clue, too, and not the Dalek's doing.
 
2012-09-02 07:36:45 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Flint Ironstag: FirstNationalBastard: HopScotchNSoda: Heyyyyyy, check out Oswin's belt. Is it just me, or do those lines of studs running down look like she incorporated her "Dalek bumps" into her self-awareness? The rectangular electronics holsters along the side are also evocative of those vertical panels above the bumps, below the dome of most Daleks.

Upon closer inspection, I do believe she did stealthily incorporate "Dalek bumps" into her design

[i6.photobucket.com image 164x148]

You think she has some more on her back as well? Because that could be....... Interesting.....

[i6.photobucket.com image 600x375]


You're a bad person, and you should feel bad.
 
2012-09-02 07:39:07 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: I just stumbled upon the extended "The First Question" 50th anniversary teaser trailer. Wow. Just ... awesome.


us4.memecdn.com
 
2012-09-02 07:41:30 PM  

PaulieattheTap: And the 11 of 10 on the danger scale. Some one has watched Spinal Tap.


That was just to give Matt Smith the chance to look almost directly into the camera and say "... Eleven!" right before the Doctor Who equivalent of img.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-02 07:54:15 PM  
Anybody else think that in the title sequence, the font that said "Doctor Who" looked like it had Dalek bumps on it?
 
2012-09-02 08:02:54 PM  

rynthetyn: Anybody else think that in the title sequence, the font that said "Doctor Who" looked like it had Dalek bumps on it?


They're theming each episode's credits to fit the episode. Dalek episode gets Dalek-y credits.
 
2012-09-02 09:09:28 PM  
Remember there was a delay with the transporter?
 
2012-09-02 09:24:05 PM  

Flint Ironstag: milk


I think this may be a throwback to The Empty Child, also written by Moffat:

The Doctor: D'you know how long you can knock around space without happening to bump into Earth?
Rose Tyler: Five days? Or is that just when we're out of milk?
The Doctor: All the species in all the universe and it has to come out of a cow!
 
2012-09-02 09:36:09 PM  

Useless Destruction of Exergy: Flint Ironstag: milk
I think this may be a throwback to The Empty Child, also written by Moffat:
The Doctor: D'you know how long you can knock around space without happening to bump into Earth?
Rose Tyler: Five days? Or is that just when we're out of milk?
The Doctor: All the species in all the universe and it has to come out of a cow!


I think someone would like a word.
doctorwhotv.co.uk
 
2012-09-02 10:48:34 PM  

Dr. Whoof: One other thought. People twigged right away to Oswin's "Remember me" line, but there was another line in the show that seemed equally out of place, like it was a set up for things to come:

When the Doctor, Rory and Amy are brought before the Dalek Parliment (really, WTF?), one of them (I think Amy?) asks how they are going to survive this, and the Doctor says, "Make them remember you."

Now, by itself that line could seem basically like the Doctor is saying, "go out in a blaze of glory," but I don't think so. I think that meant something, much like Time of the Angels when the Doctor is speaking to the blinded Amy and we later find out it's his post-Pandorica self speaking. The line just didn't seem to fit quite right, and while that could be disregarded as just twitchy writing, I think Moffet is too clever not to have been dropping hints in this episode for the future. He loves doing that in the first episode so that at the end you go back and say, "oh, THAT'S what that meant."


I think we were discussing that line a little earlier. I find it odd just how much Moffat focuses on remembering in general, not just in this episode. Remember Rory, now that he doesn't exist because of the crack, remember your family and bring them back, remember the existence of Silence with marks on your arms, etc. And now, here we have remembering being brought into this episode at the beginning and at the end. The Doctor wants Amy to make the daleks remember her, Oswin wants the Doctor to remember her, the daleks no longer remember who the Doctor, their predator, is. Perhaps Moffat just really likes toying with peoples' minds - and what better way to do that then with their own memories. But three separate instances of the theme of memory coming up in the same episode?

And that line just seemed too out of place in the dialogue - make the daleks remember her? What good will that do? Why would he say that? The daleks tend not to forget anyway, with that hive mind memory of theirs.

Of course, it could just be a throwaway line, and Moffat is laughing his ass off while people are debating the significance of it. But that does not seem to be the likeliest of theories here.
 
2012-09-02 11:00:34 PM  
img696.imageshack.us

img28.imageshack.us


She's not completely ugly, I'll give her that.
 
2012-09-02 11:00:52 PM  

Luthien's Tempest: Dr. Whoof: One other thought. People twigged right away to Oswin's "Remember me" line, but there was another line in the show that seemed equally out of place, like it was a set up for things to come:

When the Doctor, Rory and Amy are brought before the Dalek Parliment (really, WTF?), one of them (I think Amy?) asks how they are going to survive this, and the Doctor says, "Make them remember you."

Now, by itself that line could seem basically like the Doctor is saying, "go out in a blaze of glory," but I don't think so. I think that meant something, much like Time of the Angels when the Doctor is speaking to the blinded Amy and we later find out it's his post-Pandorica self speaking. The line just didn't seem to fit quite right, and while that could be disregarded as just twitchy writing, I think Moffet is too clever not to have been dropping hints in this episode for the future. He loves doing that in the first episode so that at the end you go back and say, "oh, THAT'S what that meant."

I think we were discussing that line a little earlier. I find it odd just how much Moffat focuses on remembering in general, not just in this episode. Remember Rory, now that he doesn't exist because of the crack, remember your family and bring them back, remember the existence of Silence with marks on your arms, etc. And now, here we have remembering being brought into this episode at the beginning and at the end. The Doctor wants Amy to make the daleks remember her, Oswin wants the Doctor to remember her, the daleks no longer remember who the Doctor, their predator, is. Perhaps Moffat just really likes toying with peoples' minds - and what better way to do that then with their own memories. But three separate instances of the theme of memory coming up in the same episode?

And that line just seemed too out of place in the dialogue - make the daleks remember her? What good will that do? Why would he say that? The daleks tend not to forget anyway, with that hive mind m ...


The line might have something to do with Amy being the mother of River Song. They know who she is, and how she is not afraid to kill them. If anything happened to Amy, River would go apeshiat on them. They would be more afraid of her than the Doctor.
 
2012-09-03 12:26:10 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: I'm watching the episode again, and when we first see Oswin, the Dalek are saying "We will enter!" I don't think they're trying to get into her shell; it's the group of Daleks trying to get into the room she's chained down in.

Also, if you watch it again, look at the shape of the room Oswin lives in; I think we're seeing the inside of something we're used to seeing the outside of.


I took that scene of the Daleks screaming at her that they will enter to be a metaphorical thing, that it was the Dalek Path Web trying to connect with her mind. If they made a full connection between her mind and the network, it would destroy the protective fantasy she had created so she "boards up" the main connection to firewall herself as she figures out how to use the Path Web on her terms.
 
2012-09-03 12:51:46 AM  
So Oswin "went through a phase" (much like her actress' career).
 
2012-09-03 12:53:44 AM  

TheManofPA: HopScotchNSoda: For all of the criticisms I can make about Russell T. Davies' episode writing, he was outstanding with so many of the the big-picture aspects, and I think he struck the more-or-less perfect balance with regard to story arcing during his tenure, particularly his first three years. Why he so completely cocked up Torchwood last year, I have no idea.

I'm going to go with Starz wanting to Americanize it. Has Starz done anything right?


loyalkng.com
 
2012-09-03 01:01:09 AM  
OK, on my second viewing now, and I have some questions/beefs (besides the whole contrived stupidity of the Amy/Rory breakup/rekindling for the sake of a cheap emotional tug):

1) The force field keeping millions of insane Daleks from escaping into the universe can only be turned off from inside the asylum? That's damn near the stupidest thing I've ever heard on "Doctor Who." What farkwit designed this asylum?

2) The nano-cloud. What's the point of having that technology in the asylum, exactly? What's it's supposed to do, other than be an imminent danger to our protagonists? What's to be gained by having any organic beings that happen upon the asylum turned into Daleks? Especially since the non-insane (OK, less insane) Daleks are afraid to even go there.

Pardon my high standards for plot holes, but Moffat has brought it on himself by writing some story elements so well, and others so poorly, and inviting ridiculous levels of scrutiny by making "Doctor Who" so deliberately, maddeningly, wonderfully esoteric.
 
2012-09-03 01:03:49 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: The Rory and Amy debate...

Many of you seem to like Amy Pond, or are too blinded by ZOMG REDHEAD SQUEEEEEEE to notice, but Amy has pretty much always been a stupid, thoughtless biatch. Her actions from last night's episode are no different than, say, running off with the Doctor on her wedding day, or her usual treating Rory like shiat.

Yeah, last night's forced romance scenes were annoying, but not out of character.


The web-series gives a little back story. Pond Life
 
2012-09-03 01:11:46 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: OK, on my second viewing now, and I have some questions/beefs (besides the whole contrived stupidity of the Amy/Rory breakup/rekindling for the sake of a cheap emotional tug):

1) The force field keeping millions of insane Daleks from escaping into the universe can only be turned off from inside the asylum? That's damn near the stupidest thing I've ever heard on "Doctor Who." What farkwit designed this asylum?

2) The nano-cloud. What's the point of having that technology in the asylum, exactly? What's it's supposed to do, other than be an imminent danger to our protagonists? What's to be gained by having any organic beings that happen upon the asylum turned into Daleks? Especially since the non-insane (OK, less insane) Daleks are afraid to even go there.

Pardon my high standards for plot holes, but Moffat has brought it on himself by writing some story elements so well, and others so poorly, and inviting ridiculous levels of scrutiny by making "Doctor Who" so deliberately, maddeningly, wonderfully esoteric.


I have to agree both of those plot points were seriously WTF, especially the nano cloud. That one especially seemed to be there just to provide some unnecessary Pond drama and some extra running around. I think it would have been stronger if the story focused more tightly on the mad Daleks as a threat.
 
2012-09-03 01:13:05 AM  

HopScotchNSoda: So Oswin "went through a phase" (much like her actress' career).


Moffat seems to be continuing the RTD-era trope that everyone in the future is at least a little bit bisexual.
 
2012-09-03 01:29:26 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: OK, on my second viewing now, and I have some questions/beefs (besides the whole contrived stupidity of the Amy/Rory breakup/rekindling for the sake of a cheap emotional tug):

1) The force field keeping millions of insane Daleks from escaping into the universe can only be turned off from inside the asylum? That's damn near the stupidest thing I've ever heard on "Doctor Who." What farkwit designed this asylum?

2) The nano-cloud. What's the point of having that technology in the asylum, exactly? What's it's supposed to do, other than be an imminent danger to our protagonists? What's to be gained by having any organic beings that happen upon the asylum turned into Daleks? Especially since the non-insane (OK, less insane) Daleks are afraid to even go there.

Pardon my high standards for plot holes, but Moffat has brought it on himself by writing some story elements so well, and others so poorly, and inviting ridiculous levels of scrutiny by making "Doctor Who" so deliberately, maddeningly, wonderfully esoteric.


The place was supposed to be automated, and you'd hardly want anyone else to be able to switch off the defences from outside, so it is not unreasonable for the switch to be inside. Makes as much sense as the force field protecting the Death Star being controlled from a tiny bunker on a deserted moon.
And the nano bots could be another defense. Either deliberate or something that was sent there to be confined and went wild.

A bigger plot hole is that the Daleks have been trying to kill the Doctor forever but never managed, yet suddenly they can easily spring a trap and capture him with ease. But still don't kill him.

Also a Dalek will without hesitation self destruct to kill the Doctor but no Dalek apparently is prepared to risk their lives to go to the Asylum planet to defeat a bigger threat?
 
2012-09-03 01:32:52 AM  

Mad_Radhu: 100 Watt Walrus: OK, on my second viewing now, and I have some questions/beefs (besides the whole contrived stupidity of the Amy/Rory breakup/rekindling for the sake of a cheap emotional tug):

1) The force field keeping millions of insane Daleks from escaping into the universe can only be turned off from inside the asylum? That's damn near the stupidest thing I've ever heard on "Doctor Who." What farkwit designed this asylum?

2) The nano-cloud. What's the point of having that technology in the asylum, exactly? What's it's supposed to do, other than be an imminent danger to our protagonists? What's to be gained by having any organic beings that happen upon the asylum turned into Daleks? Especially since the non-insane (OK, less insane) Daleks are afraid to even go there.

Pardon my high standards for plot holes, but Moffat has brought it on himself by writing some story elements so well, and others so poorly, and inviting ridiculous levels of scrutiny by making "Doctor Who" so deliberately, maddeningly, wonderfully esoteric.

I have to agree both of those plot points were seriously WTF, especially the nano cloud. That one especially seemed to be there just to provide some unnecessary Pond drama and some extra running around. I think it would have been stronger if the story focused more tightly on the mad Daleks as a threat.


OK, my #2 question has been answered by further dialogue. It's not a very good answer, but it's an answer:

THE DOCTOR: "Oh, ho ho! That's clever! The nanocloud. Micro-organisms that automatically process any organic matter, living or dead, into a Dalek puppet. Anything that attacks this place, it automatically becomes part of the on-site security."

Of course, that just raises the question, why anyone would attack the asylum of the Daleks? Like I said, not a avery good answer, but an answer nonetheless.
 
2012-09-03 01:47:14 AM  

Mad_Radhu: TheManofPA: HopScotchNSoda: For all of the criticisms I can make about Russell T. Davies' episode writing, he was outstanding with so many of the the big-picture aspects, and I think he struck the more-or-less perfect balance with regard to story arcing during his tenure, particularly his first three years. Why he so completely cocked up Torchwood last year, I have no idea.

I'm going to go with Starz wanting to Americanize it. Has Starz done anything right?

[loyalkng.com image 540x300]


So who are they then? Amy, The Doctor, Rory and Mickey?
 
2012-09-03 01:58:37 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: Mad_Radhu: 100 Watt Walrus: OK, on my second viewing now, and I have some questions/beefs (besides the whole contrived stupidity of the Amy/Rory breakup/rekindling for the sake of a cheap emotional tug):

1) The force field keeping millions of insane Daleks from escaping into the universe can only be turned off from inside the asylum? That's damn near the stupidest thing I've ever heard on "Doctor Who." What farkwit designed this asylum?

2) The nano-cloud. What's the point of having that technology in the asylum, exactly? What's it's supposed to do, other than be an imminent danger to our protagonists? What's to be gained by having any organic beings that happen upon the asylum turned into Daleks? Especially since the non-insane (OK, less insane) Daleks are afraid to even go there.

Pardon my high standards for plot holes, but Moffat has brought it on himself by writing some story elements so well, and others so poorly, and inviting ridiculous levels of scrutiny by making "Doctor Who" so deliberately, maddeningly, wonderfully esoteric.

I have to agree both of those plot points were seriously WTF, especially the nano cloud. That one especially seemed to be there just to provide some unnecessary Pond drama and some extra running around. I think it would have been stronger if the story focused more tightly on the mad Daleks as a threat.

OK, my #2 question has been answered by further dialogue. It's not a very good answer, but it's an answer:

THE DOCTOR: "Oh, ho ho! That's clever! The nanocloud. Micro-organisms that automatically process any organic matter, living or dead, into a Dalek puppet. Anything that attacks this place, it automatically becomes part of the on-site security."

Of course, that just raises the question, why anyone would attack the asylum of the Daleks? Like I said, not a avery good answer, but an answer nonetheless.


Attack = attempt to break the inmates out?

The force field is a little odd though. It didn't stop the Alaska from crashing, it didn't stop the gravity beams that carried down the Heroic Trio, but it stopped the Daleks from destroying the planet while it was on- I thought that made sense when I thought they planned to disintegrate the planet with a massive barrage of energy weapons, but then the sheild drops and they fire a bunch of missles?

I also felt the Amy/Rory break-up felt rather contrived. There was nothing in prior episodes that forshadowed them having this kind of issue (no, I don't count what we saw in ep 5 of Pond Life because that likewise had no prior indications). They broke up off-screen so they could get back together during the episode. If you want them to get back together in the first episode of the new series, they need to break up no later than the last episode of the prior series. As it is, they're back together, and I'd be surprised if there's any further reference to their (almost) divorce. I don't think anyone's gonna find the paperwork on the bus Rory was abducted from and turn it in. I don't think they'll even mention it again- it will come up again that Amy can't have any more children, but not that they split up over it.

And the "I gave you up so you could meet someone else and have kids", yeah, isn't that sweet and selfless of Amy, except completely not since she never smegging told him that was why she kicked him out, as evidenced by his surprise when she told him. The girl he's loved his entire life, who he spent 2000 years (awake / concious the entire time- no sleep for Autons) protecting, married her, then fought most of the Universe to get her back after she was kidnapped, this girl he is utterly devoted to, she tells him she doesn't want him anymore, kicks him out of the house, and what? Expects him to "move on" to meet some other nice girl, get married and have kids?

I guess, to her, it means she loves him as much as he loves her, but it indicates she doesn't actually know him all that well.

I do like the idea I saw someone post in a different Who thread that Rory and Amy get 'Angeled' back to the late 60s while in Manhatten, and end up finding that little urchin girl on the street, and raising her. Heck, based on the timeframe, it could even be the same Angel that got 10, Martha, and Billy Shipton.
 
2012-09-03 02:17:53 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: Yes. Both. I really hope they're not answering that question.

/Still trying to decide whether to buy or "acquire" this season
//Somebody let me know if BBCa is still running the asinine "Amy Pond Show" intros
///and if iTunes is selling the unadulterated versions
////"Acquired" most previous Smith episodes, so I think I'll pony up this time
//Each time I make a slashy, I think about Karen Gillan naked
//Soon it will be Jenna-Louise Coleman


Three seasons and your panties are still in a wad over the five second Amy Pond intro? Wow.
 
2012-09-03 02:31:21 AM  

foo monkey: 100 Watt Walrus: Yes. Both. I really hope they're not answering that question.

/Still trying to decide whether to buy or "acquire" this season
//Somebody let me know if BBCa is still running the asinine "Amy Pond Show" intros
///and if iTunes is selling the unadulterated versions
////"Acquired" most previous Smith episodes, so I think I'll pony up this time
//Each time I make a slashy, I think about Karen Gillan naked
//Soon it will be Jenna-Louise Coleman

Three seasons and your panties are still in a wad over the five second Amy Pond intro? Wow.


Actually, that debuted last season, and was quite a bit more than five seconds.

But it seems to be gone now, though it should be mocked at every logical opportunity, just in case.

/NEVAR FORGET!
 
2012-09-03 02:37:46 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: ///and if iTunes is selling the unadulterated versions


I waited until Sunday so I could get it from iTunes, and it seems to be the full unadulterated BBC version. There aren't even any fades in and out for the commercial breaks, like there is on the On Demand version.
 
2012-09-03 03:08:11 AM  

Mad_Radhu: 100 Watt Walrus: ///and if iTunes is selling the unadulterated versions

I waited until Sunday so I could get it from iTunes, and it seems to be the full unadulterated BBC version. There aren't even any fades in and out for the commercial breaks, like there is on the On Demand version.


Yeah, I ended up going for the iTunes Season Pass. Thanks for answering my question though.

Not sure why you had to wait until Sunday. I downloaded it late Friday night/Saturday morning from iTunes. You're not in the US, perhaps?

FirstNationalBastard: foo monkey: 100 Watt Walrus:
...
//Somebody let me know if BBCa is still running the asinine "Amy Pond Show" intros
...
Three seasons and your panties are still in a wad over the five second Amy Pond intro? Wow.

Actually, that debuted last season, and was quite a bit more than five seconds.

But it seems to be gone now, though it should be mocked at every logical opportunity, just in case.


Exactly.

Yes, uppity pants, I tend to object strongly when the flow of my favorite show is derailed every week by additional content crowbarred into a dramatic moment. The show's cold open is designed to flow directly into the title sequence, often on a cliff-hanger moment, which works much more dramatically when followed immediately by those tense initial chords from the theme music. The "Amy Pond Show" pat-on-the-head intro for new Yankee viewers stripped those moments of their punch. They're a bastardization.

Imagine a James Bond movie in which between the tense ending of the pre-title sequence was followed by a voice-over backstory sequence for the Bond girl, before the chasing-dots gun barrel sequence. Unforgivably stupid, right? There you go.

And as noted by FNB, the "Amy Pond Show" sequence was added only to Series 6 in the US. You might want to avoid getting snarky about things where you don't have your facts straight.

/ranty this evening
 
2012-09-03 03:15:21 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: Not sure why you had to wait until Sunday. I downloaded it late Friday night/Saturday morning from iTunes. You're not in the US, perhaps?


Nah, I'm in the US. Last season they didn't post the episodes until after midnight Sunday morning. I wonder if they are doing them early this year for some reason?

It was also a little weird last year when I bought a season pass for S6 Part 1, and you'd see the episode being posted shortly after midnight Sunday morning, but the season pass wouldn't let me download it until hours later when I got the email it was available for download.
 
2012-09-03 03:20:32 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: Mad_Radhu: 100 Watt Walrus: ///and if iTunes is selling the unadulterated versions

I waited until Sunday so I could get it from iTunes, and it seems to be the full unadulterated BBC version. There aren't even any fades in and out for the commercial breaks, like there is on the On Demand version.

Yeah, I ended up going for the iTunes Season Pass. Thanks for answering my question though.

Not sure why you had to wait until Sunday. I downloaded it late Friday night/Saturday morning from iTunes. You're not in the US, perhaps?

FirstNationalBastard: foo monkey: 100 Watt Walrus:
...
//Somebody let me know if BBCa is still running the asinine "Amy Pond Show" intros
...
Three seasons and your panties are still in a wad over the five second Amy Pond intro? Wow.

Actually, that debuted last season, and was quite a bit more than five seconds.

But it seems to be gone now, though it should be mocked at every logical opportunity, just in case.

Exactly.

Yes, uppity pants, I tend to object strongly when the flow of my favorite show is derailed every week by additional content crowbarred into a dramatic moment. The show's cold open is designed to flow directly into the title sequence, often on a cliff-hanger moment, which works much more dramatically when followed immediately by those tense initial chords from the theme music. The "Amy Pond Show" pat-on-the-head intro for new Yankee viewers stripped those moments of their punch. They're a bastardization.

Imagine a James Bond movie in which between the tense ending of the pre-title sequence was followed by a voice-over backstory sequence for the Bond girl, before the chasing-dots gun barrel sequence. Unforgivably stupid, right? There you go.

And as noted by FNB, the "Amy Pond Show" sequence was added only to Series 6 in the US. You might want to avoid getting snarky about things where you don't have your facts straight.

/ranty this evening


Yeah, and even worse the version streaming on Netflix has it too - I went back through the series recently, and on getting series 6 all of a sudden the show thinks I've never watched before. I mean WTF?
 
2012-09-03 04:04:16 AM  

Jorn the Younger: Yeah, and even worse the version streaming on Netflix has it too - I went back through the series recently, and on getting series 6 all of a sudden the show thinks I've never watched before. I mean WTF?


I know, man. That really chapped my hide. I'm watching S6 with the girlfriend right now - I got her hooked with "Blink" about a year ago, then "The Girl in the Fireplace," then "The Empty Child"/"The Doctor Dances," then "The Doctor's Wife" (she's a huge Gaiman fan), then we started in on Eccelston - and when we got to S6 on Netflix, I couldn't believe it.

foo monkey is going to think this justifies his "panties in a wad" statement, but I actually called Netflix to complain. I explained to the situation to the girl on the phone, pointed out that when watching on Netflix, nobody is going to start a TV show with Season 6, she agreed it was monumentally stupid, and said she's pass that up the line. Don't know what difference it will make, but everyone who care should do the same. Critical mass and all.
 
2012-09-03 04:11:12 AM  
Here's another question from my 2nd viewing: How and why does Oswin sound like Oswin, given what you find out about her at the end? What she looks like, well, we're just kinda seeing that from her POV, but the voice is something all our intrepid heroes hear.

Don't think that one necessarily needs to be answered. I'll accept "a little creative license" on that one. Just sayin'.

/BTW, I think it would be hilarious if Jenna-Louise Coleman's companion character has nothing whatsoever to do with Oswin, and nothing is ever said about it, just for the sake of laughing at all the wasted theorizing. (Not jumping in to the fray on that one.)
 
2012-09-03 04:18:11 AM  
I'll I'm gonna say, now that I'm sucked into the vortex of Dr Who nonsense, is this:

Mrs. Angelo in the 11th Hour has the same broach as River Song wears in the Big Bang.

And the have the same colored eyes.

lh3.ggpht.com

Moffatt has mentioned the 11th Hour being relevant and/or crucial and/or just hinting to Rory and Amy's departure.

That is all.

/goddammitthisisgonnaconsumesomanyhoursnowain'tit
//thanks for Netflix, though
 
2012-09-03 04:53:44 AM  

That Reilly Monster: Swordfighting_monk: I personally think that Oswin 'hacked' Amy Pond, with the nanos. Eventually, those nanos are going to rewrite Amy mentally and physically, till Oswin is reborn, with all of her memories, and personality carried over.

Would kind of....mirror the Doctor's regeneration in many ways. Amy wouldn't be entirely 'gone' as evidenced by the 'survivor' Dalek drone's memories whom the gang first met beaming down to the planet. So you would have a sort of...blend? of Amy's strong will and toughness, with Oswin's apparent genius and cuteness;)

Which fits nicely with Amy's hallucination as her mind was being overwritten. The ballerina, mirroring the music box in Oswin's imagined room. The people in formal dress greeting each other, that's something the junior entertainment director on a luxury liner would see frequently. Interesting.


I'm looking at that scene right now, and you're definitely right about Amy seeing the Daleks in that room as people from Oswin's mind or memories. That's definitely the kind of thing Moffat wouldn't do without a grander plan.
 
2012-09-03 05:05:25 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: I'll I'm gonna say, now that I'm sucked into the vortex of Dr Who nonsense, is this:

Mrs. Angelo in the 11th Hour has the same broach as River Song wears in the Big Bang.

And the have the same colored eyes.

[lh3.ggpht.com image 494x286]

Moffatt has mentioned the 11th Hour being relevant and/or crucial and/or just hinting to Rory and Amy's departure.

That is all.

/goddammitthisisgonnaconsumesomanyhoursnowain'tit
//thanks for Netflix, though


Wow, dude. You've really been bitten by the bug with an arcane discovery like that. Interesting catch, if true, but there's also the possibility that it was just a re-used prop. I mean, River was in that shot from "The Big Bang" all of what? 1 second? And I doubt, if she were to be revived from the Library, that even her dotage River would be anything less than badass. Mrs. Angelo would have to be either a very old River, or a different regeneration before she even became River - a regeneration between space-suit Melody and Mels.

Not saying it can't be. It just seem to me this is more likely a case of "Doctor Who" OCD.

/I'm a sufferer myself
//The only cure, ironically, is a bad Doctor
///McCoy cured me in the '80s, emo-Tennant almost cured me again a few years ago
////But Smith and Moffat have turned cocaine into crack, and now I'm more hooked than ever
//slashies!
 
2012-09-03 05:06:10 AM  
Clarification: by "if true," I meant, "if that really is the same brooch.
 
2012-09-03 05:18:47 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: StreetlightInTheGhetto: I'll I'm gonna say, now that I'm sucked into the vortex of Dr Who nonsense, is this:

Mrs. Angelo in the 11th Hour has the same broach as River Song wears in the Big Bang.

And the have the same colored eyes.

[lh3.ggpht.com image 494x286]

Moffatt has mentioned the 11th Hour being relevant and/or crucial and/or just hinting to Rory and Amy's departure.

That is all.

/goddammitthisisgonnaconsumesomanyhoursnowain'tit
//thanks for Netflix, though

Wow, dude. You've really been bitten by the bug with an arcane discovery like that. Interesting catch, if true, but there's also the possibility that it was just a re-used prop. I mean, River was in that shot from "The Big Bang" all of what? 1 second? And I doubt, if she were to be revived from the Library, that even her dotage River would be anything less than badass. Mrs. Angelo would have to be either a very old River, or a different regeneration before she even became River - a regeneration between space-suit Melody and Mels.

Not saying it can't be. It just seem to me this is more likely a case of "Doctor Who" OCD.

/I'm a sufferer myself
//The only cure, ironically, is a bad Doctor
///McCoy cured me in the '80s, emo-Tennant almost cured me again a few years ago
////But Smith and Moffat have turned cocaine into crack, and now I'm more hooked than ever
//slashies!


mentioned it to the SO (btw, there's a Dalek in a Better Off Ted episode, completely unacknowledged, which is awesome). I couldn't reconcile that with that we apparently know when River dies... except that the SO reminded me that her consciousness was trapped in a computer in that episode. So, yeah.

I didn't notice the broach thing, but I was reading comments on some website that did. Although most of the ones there figured Angelo = Weeping Angels reference and that she was Amy somehow. So (thanks, Netflix) I realized the eye color didn't match and stumbled on the Mrs Angelo Is River theory.

And yeah, I'm screwed now. C'est la vie. What can I say, I like foreshadowing that I can (at least theoretically, even if after the fact) use to surmise the end game. Arrested Development comes to mind (albeit in an entirely different way).

/thanks, SO
//and Moffat (seriously, godDAMN, with a lesser writer I couldn't even get to this stupid over analyzing / surmising state I'm in now)
///granted, "Mel" should have been foreshadowed earlier, somehow
 
2012-09-03 05:24:03 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: /goddammitthisisgonnaconsumesomanyhoursnowain'tit
//thanks for Netflix, though

Wow, dude. You've really been bitten by the bug with an arcane discovery like that. Interesting catch, if true, but there's also the possibility that it was just a re-used prop. I mean, River was in that shot from "The Big Bang" all of what? 1 second? And I doubt, if she were to be revived from the Library, that even her dotage River would be anything less than badass. Mrs. Angelo would have to be either a very old River, or a different regeneration before she even became River - a regeneration between space-suit Melody and Mels.

Not saying it can't be. It just seem to me this is more likely a case of "Doctor Who" OCD.


Also what I was thinking was that River is not entirely Time Lord DNA. If she actually can't regenerate after the last go in the Hitler episode, maybe she does eventually age normally like a human would. That said, there's the whole problem of "she's already died". Which stuck me until the SO had to go and remind me about the end of the library episode.

/might be freaking him out a bit now
//but it's quite fun to remind him that it's all his fault
///plus, logic puzzles, as long as they make sense, are fun as hell to work out
 
2012-09-03 05:59:53 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: Here's another question from my 2nd viewing: How and why does Oswin sound like Oswin, given what you find out about her at the end? What she looks like, well, we're just kinda seeing that from her POV, but the voice is something all our intrepid heroes hear.


I never thought that was odd. She wasn't relaying her voice from a microphone in the room where the Doctor found her chained up near the end. She was tapped into the hive mind (a neural interface computer network) and so simply relayed her mental voice directly, which of course sounded human.
 
2012-09-03 06:42:13 AM  
if she is a future version of the doctors companion why did she not recognise him?
 
2012-09-03 06:44:23 AM  
Also, I really hope amy pond dies.
 
2012-09-03 08:24:47 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: Like I said, not a avery good answer,


persephonemagazine.com


What Avery good answer might look like.
 
2012-09-03 10:31:58 AM  

dready zim: if she is a future version of the doctors companion why did she not recognise him?


Rule 1: The Doctor lies
Rule 1b: River lies
Rule 1c: Oswin lies? 

/I don't think she is a future version.
 
2012-09-03 10:47:33 AM  

Gunny Walker: dready zim: if she is a future version of the doctors companion why did she not recognise him?

Rule 1: The Doctor lies
Rule 1b: River lies
Rule 1c: Oswin lies? 

/I don't think she is a future version.


neither do I. I am interested to see how they introduce the `real` oswin though and explain the one we saw this episode. I just hope `alaska` does not reappear. Clone? (of course you *would* clone the smart sexy woman)
 
2012-09-03 11:07:20 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Also what I was thinking was that River is not entirely Time Lord DNA. If she actually can't regenerate after the last go in the Hitler episode, maybe she does eventually age normally like a human would. That said, there's the whole problem of "she's already died". Which stuck me until the SO had to go and remind me about the end of the library episode.


There is another possibility that was provided in "Let's Kill Hitler": River says she can reverse-age. She could well grow old and then reverse back. That aging and reversal would presumably, however, have had to happen before "Last Night" from the perspective of the oldest of her three selves.

I think that the broach was just a re-used prop. Look at how many times some locations are used. We don't presume that the hall where Rose and Ten met the Face of Boe and Lady Casandra to watch the Earth destroyed has any connection to the big hall in Pompeii, or the restaurant in Berlin where Mels/River gives the Doctor her remaining lives, or the Silurians' conference room, or the New Earth Senate chamber. We don't claim that the fortune-teller's tent in "Turn Left" is the Torchwood Three hub under Roald Dahl Plass either.
 
2012-09-03 11:24:04 AM  

dready zim: Gunny Walker: dready zim: if she is a future version of the doctors companion why did she not recognise him?
Rule 1: The Doctor lies
Rule 1b: River lies
Rule 1c: Oswin lies? 
/I don't think she is a future version.
neither do I. I am interested to see how they introduce the `real` oswin though and explain the one we saw this episode. I just hope `alaska` does not reappear. Clone? (of course you *would* clone the smart sexy woman)


I certainly hope that Oswin is not the future self of the next companion. That gag was interesting, but it is now tired, so tired. It's become a cliche joke. Most of the multi-episode companions, starting with Mel Bush, have mobius timelines with the Doctor. If you take all of the traditionally linear companions -- even including the three one-off companions who were already established non-companion characters -- there are only six traditional, linear relationships, and eight mobius relationships. It's no longer intriguing; it's a crutch.
 
2012-09-03 11:33:42 AM  

HopScotchNSoda: dready zim: Gunny Walker: dready zim: if she is a future version of the doctors companion why did she not recognise him?
Rule 1: The Doctor lies
Rule 1b: River lies
Rule 1c: Oswin lies? 
/I don't think she is a future version.
neither do I. I am interested to see how they introduce the `real` oswin though and explain the one we saw this episode. I just hope `alaska` does not reappear. Clone? (of course you *would* clone the smart sexy woman)

I certainly hope that Oswin is not the future self of the next companion. That gag was interesting, but it is now tired, so tired. It's become a cliche joke. Most of the multi-episode companions, starting with Mel Bush, have mobius timelines with the Doctor. If you take all of the traditionally linear companions -- even including the three one-off companions who were already established non-companion characters -- there are only six traditional, linear relationships, and eight mobius relationships. It's no longer intriguing; it's a crutch.


Well, since the new Companion is supposed to be from the Victorian era, maybe the reason the Doctor takes her with him is that something in her voice reminds him of poor Oswin, who wanted to see the universe, but died before she got to, so this Victorian girl who wants to see the world, he shows her the universe.
 
2012-09-03 11:57:53 AM  

Jorn the Younger: Well, since the new Companion is supposed to be from the Victorian era, maybe the reason the Doctor takes her with him is that something in her voice reminds him of poor Oswin, who wanted to see the universe, but died before she got to, so this Victorian girl who wants to see the world, he shows her the universe.


The Doctor meets the new companion in Victorian England; we don't know yet whether she is from that era. Who knows, she could have been in the IT department aboard Demons Run, and hitched a ride when River took the other three back to 1888 in the hope of later becoming Charles Babbage's tutor, or River found her somewhere else in space/time, wasn't interested in having a girlfriend herself, but knew someone who might be.

Which would be fine. Or Oswin is the future daughter of [Clara?], or Oswin had gotten knocked up as a teen and put her baby up for adoption before signing on aboard Alaska; that baby could have grown up to be Clara, or a more distant descendant as was the case with Dodo. Or one could be the clone of the other, or they are twin sisters ("My sister became a cruise director; but her ship was lost and we never heard from her again."). Or Oswin could have uploaded herself a la River and somehow managed to recreate a new body, thereby giving the Doctor a way to rescue River from the Library. Anything other than yet another mobius.
 
2012-09-03 11:59:35 AM  

HopScotchNSoda:

I certainly hope that Oswin is not the future self of the next companion. That gag was interesting, but it is now tired, so tired. It's become a cliche joke. Most of the multi-episode companions, starting with Mel Bush, have mobius timelines with the Doctor. If you take all of the traditionally linear companions -- even including the three one-off companions who were already established non-companion characters -- there are only six traditional, linear relationships, and eight mobius relationships. It's no longer intriguing; it's a crutch.


I actually always thought they didn't do that enough, especially in the original series. He's a time traveler. He should meet lots of people in the "wrong" order. It was a plot hole that he met most people in a nice linear way all the time.
In the original series I can't remember anyone he met who who had met him already and knew him or where he knew them but they hadn't met him yet*, and it's still quite rare in the new series with River being one of the rare notable examples, the girl who died in AGMGTW and Queen Victoria being rare others. He meets dozens of people each week, 99% of them for the first time for both.
The first time he met the Daleks he'd never heard of them and vice versa! The Daleks! The biggest enemies of the Time Lords and he'd never heard of them! That would be like a time traveler who had spent years going back and forth on modern day Earth going to Berlin in 1938 and not knowing who Hitler was.

*Of course I am ready to be corrected on this with dozens of examples that I have forgotten.
 
2012-09-03 12:04:31 PM  

HopScotchNSoda:

Which would be fine. Or Oswin is the future daughter of [Clara?], or Oswin had gotten knocked up as a teen and put her baby up for adoption before signing on aboard Alaska; that baby could have grown up to be Clara, or a more distant descendant as was the case with Dodo. Or one could be the clone of the other, or they are twin sisters ("My sister became a cruise director; but her ship was lost and we never heard from her again."). Or Oswin could have uploaded herself a la River and somehow managed to recreate a new body, thereby giving the Doctor a way to rescue River from the Library. Anything other than yet another mobius.


My pick. The way Oswin said "Remember me" at the end and looked at the camera suggested she'd done something. The Nanobots could turn humans into Dalek drones so they should be able to turn a former human now in a Dalek casing back into a human body. Both Amy and the Doctor spent time exposed to the nano cloud, and with the revelation that Amy can't get pregnant I could see her finding herself suddenly pregnant and having a girl, calling her Clara, who grows up in months to become Oswin.
 
2012-09-03 12:20:02 PM  

Flint Ironstag: I actually always thought they didn't do that enough, especially in the original series. He's a time traveler. He should meet lots of people in the "wrong" order. It was a plot hole that he met most people in a nice linear way all the time.
In the original series I can't remember anyone he met who who had met him already and knew him or where he knew them but they hadn't met him yet*, and it's still quite rare in the new series with River being one of the rare notable examples, the girl who died in AGMGTW and Queen Victoria being rare others. He meets dozens of people each week, 99% of them for the first time for both.
The first time he met the Daleks he'd never heard of them and vice versa! The Daleks! The biggest enemies of the Time Lords and he'd never heard of them! That would be like a time traveler who had spent years going back and forth on modern day Earth going to Berlin in 1938 and not knowing who Hitler was.
*Of course I am ready to be corrected on this with dozens of examples that I have forgotten.


I agree that it is something that should have been examined more in the classic era. Overdoing it now, however, is not the answer.

In the classic era, "The Five Doctors" put Sarah Jane, Teegan, and Turlough into that position, as the First and Second Doctors thereby each met Sarah Jane before she first met the Third Doctor in The Time Warrior, and the First, Second and Third all met Tegan and Turlough before they first met, respectively, the Fourth and Fifth Doctors in Logopolis and Mawdryn Undead.

Mel Bush was conceived from the start to be out-of-sync. The Sixth Doctor first met her when she testified at his trial in Trial of a Time Lord, having already been travelling with him from her perspective. Baker's departure caused her first encounter with him to never be filmed; it took place off-screen between Trial of a Time Lord and Time and the Rani.

Rose met Nine as a baby when he was already travelling with her, and Ten a few months before she met Nine. Mickey met Nine as a small boy; Nine had already met adult Mickey. Nine and Ten both dealt with the Face of Boe and Jack Harkness independently in order, before learning why the Face of Boe calls the Doctor "Old Friend". Sarah Jane (see above). Martha met Ten on her way to work where he met her; at the end of the episode, he went back in time to bump into her on her way to work. You know all about River. Amelia met Eleven and her adult self at a fair two years before Eleven crashed into her back yard and met her. The only in-sync, multi-episode companions since Mel have been Ace, Adam, Donna, Wilfred, Rory, and Craig -- and half of those were only officially companions for one episode.
 
2012-09-03 12:22:01 PM  

Flint Ironstag:
My pick. The way Oswin said "Remember me" at the end and looked at the camera suggested she'd done something. The Nanobots could turn humans into Dalek drones so they should be able to turn a former human now in a Dalek casing back into a human body. Both Amy and the Doctor spent time exposed to the nano cloud, and with the revelation that Amy can't get pregnant I could see her finding herself suddenly pregnant and having a girl, calling her Clara, who grows up in months to become Oswin.


I knew I'd eventually hear an echo.
 
2012-09-03 12:27:01 PM  

100 Watt Walrus: Jorn the Younger: Yeah, and even worse the version streaming on Netflix has it too - I went back through the series recently, and on getting series 6 all of a sudden the show thinks I've never watched before. I mean WTF?

I know, man. That really chapped my hide. I'm watching S6 with the girlfriend right now - I got her hooked with "Blink" about a year ago, then "The Girl in the Fireplace," then "The Empty Child"/"The Doctor Dances," then "The Doctor's Wife" (she's a huge Gaiman fan), then we started in on Eccelston - and when we got to S6 on Netflix, I couldn't believe it.

foo monkey is going to think this justifies his "panties in a wad" statement, but I actually called Netflix to complain. I explained to the situation to the girl on the phone, pointed out that when watching on Netflix, nobody is going to start a TV show with Season 6, she agreed it was monumentally stupid, and said she's pass that up the line. Don't know what difference it will make, but everyone who care should do the same. Critical mass and all.


Weirdly enough the streaming version on Amazon Prime DOESN'T have the Amy Pond intro, so it's not like it's the only version out there for streaming services.
 
2012-09-03 12:33:12 PM  

Flint Ironstag: The first time he met the Daleks he'd never heard of them and vice versa! The Daleks! The biggest enemies of the Time Lords and he'd never heard of them! That would be like a time traveler who had spent years going back and forth on modern day Earth going to Berlin in 1938 and not knowing who Hitler was.


I've always figured that was because his timeline was instrumental in the Daleks becoming what they did. Think of all the times that he went back to their earliest histories and basically made it worse.
 
2012-09-03 12:37:10 PM  

Flint Ironstag: *Of course I am ready to be corrected on this with dozens of examples that I have forgotten.


Would you settle for knee-jerk, white-hot nerd rage and patronizing accusations that you're a lightweight poseur who is clearly just riding the bandwagon and has probably just only watched a few BBC America episodes from the last season or two? It's a holiday, let's skip all the boring research and go right to the fun part!
 
2012-09-03 12:47:33 PM  

Gunny Walker: dready zim: if she is a future version of the doctors companion why did she not recognise him?

Rule 1: The Doctor lies
Rule 1b: River lies
Rule 1c: Oswin lies? 

/I don't think she is a future version.


She couldn't be; otherwise she'd know he's the Doctor.
 
2012-09-03 01:02:06 PM  

OniExpress: Flint Ironstag: The first time he met the Daleks he'd never heard of them and vice versa! The Daleks! The biggest enemies of the Time Lords and he'd never heard of them! That would be like a time traveler who had spent years going back and forth on modern day Earth going to Berlin in 1938 and not knowing who Hitler was.

I've always figured that was because his timeline was instrumental in the Daleks becoming what they did. Think of all the times that he went back to their earliest histories and basically made it worse.


I'm still wondering why Skaro is still around when it was destroyed in 1988.
 
2012-09-03 01:22:45 PM  

Rwa2play: She couldn't be; otherwise she'd know he's the Doctor.


I certainly hope she isn't from the Doctor's future, but your reasoning is flawed. Her memory could be screwed up. See Jamie, Zoe, and Donna. Maybe she was never even a deputy entertainment director. The Daleks are familiar with the value of doctorial companions, as shown in this past episode. If she was a computer genius ex-companion, that would explain the Dalek's desire for the full conversion. She tries to convince them otherwise: "Doctor? Doctor who? My name's Oswin. I'm just an assistant entertainment director; this was my first trip into space." She adopts that persona as part of her coping mechanism.
 
2012-09-03 01:26:18 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: OniExpress: Flint Ironstag: The first time he met the Daleks he'd never heard of them and vice versa! The Daleks! The biggest enemies of the Time Lords and he'd never heard of them! That would be like a time traveler who had spent years going back and forth on modern day Earth going to Berlin in 1938 and not knowing who Hitler was.

I've always figured that was because his timeline was instrumental in the Daleks becoming what they did. Think of all the times that he went back to their earliest histories and basically made it worse.

I'm still wondering why Skaro is still around when it was destroyed in 1988.


Only explanation I can think of: Time Travel. This is either Skaro at some point before that happened, of the several hundred years of time travel just on the Doctor's part (not to mention the Daleks, the Silence, and all the Time Agent Wristband users) have lead to the planet not being "destroyed" so much as "permanently barren" like we saw it this time.

There's enough time travel happening, that basically the only way to be sure of something would be to stick right there and make sure that something damn well stays destroyed. If the Doctor can fake his own death, with all the scrutiny involved, I'd say that basically anyone or anything can manage the same.
 
2012-09-03 01:31:28 PM  
Y'know how this episode could have been improved? Make Oswin pure Dalek/Kaled. She's an ancient member of the race, one of the first converted. That destroyed her mind. Over the centuries on the Asylum, she's gone madder. She took control of the force field, she crashed the Alaska, all to support the fiction that she was spinning to herself.

That is officially what happened. I'm retconning it for coolness.
 
2012-09-03 01:34:38 PM  

100 Watt Walrus: //The only cure, ironically, is a bad Doctor
///McCoy cured me in the '80s, emo-Tennant almost cured me again a few years ago


McCoy a bad Doctor?

While some of the early Langford companion episodes were poor but when Aldred was the companion some of the sotries were amongst the best of all of the Doctor's. Remembrance of the Daleks, Curse of Fenric and Ghostlight are fantastic with the climatic scene from Fenric is one of the best scenes in all of Who.
 
2012-09-03 01:41:29 PM  

Norfolking Chance: 100 Watt Walrus: //The only cure, ironically, is a bad Doctor
///McCoy cured me in the '80s, emo-Tennant almost cured me again a few years ago

McCoy a bad Doctor?

While some of the early Langford companion episodes were poor but when Aldred was the companion some of the sotries were amongst the best of all of the Doctor's. Remembrance of the Daleks, Curse of Fenric and Ghostlight are fantastic with the climatic scene from Fenric is one of the best scenes in all of Who.


Remembrance was just too damn choppy, as were most Who serials of the era. Most of them feel like there's a whole episode of material missing, and in most cases, there is.

But, you're right that the Ace era, especially the final season, was pretty good. And the extended cuts of Battlefield and Fenric are worth spending money on the DVD to see.

/wish they had done extended cuts of all the McCoy era stuff and added back in the episode worth of material that was cut from every episode, so the stories would finally be coherent.
 
2012-09-03 01:57:38 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: I'm still wondering why Skaro is still around when it was destroyed in 1988.


It was shown intact at the beginning of the 1996 Doctor Who TV movie, which is pretty much canon for better or worse, and one of the Eighth Doctor Adventures novels retconned that the Hand of Omega destroyed a duplicate of Skaro and that the real Skaro survived. Even without that, you'd think that with the Time War rampaging across all of time and space, the previous status quo would be upset by the end of it and the Daleks would undo some of their previous losses.
 
2012-09-03 02:16:45 PM  

sinanju: Flint Ironstag:
My pick. The way Oswin said "Remember me" at the end and looked at the camera suggested she'd done something. The Nanobots could turn humans into Dalek drones so they should be able to turn a former human now in a Dalek casing back into a human body. Both Amy and the Doctor spent time exposed to the nano cloud, and with the revelation that Amy can't get pregnant I could see her finding herself suddenly pregnant and having a girl, calling her Clara, who grows up in months to become Oswin.

I knew I'd eventually hear an echo.


But you missed me compliment you for that very suggestion at 11:38:22?
 
2012-09-03 02:18:58 PM  

semiotix: Flint Ironstag: *Of course I am ready to be corrected on this with dozens of examples that I have forgotten.

Would you settle for knee-jerk, white-hot nerd rage and patronizing accusations that you're a lightweight poseur who is clearly just riding the bandwagon and has probably just only watched a few BBC America episodes from the last season or two? It's a holiday, let's skip all the boring research and go right to the fun part!


Hey! Four was my Doctor, and I still have the twelve foot long scarf I got my grandmother to knit me!

You want me to rewatch 26 seasons of a TV series just to make a comment on Fark?!
 
2012-09-03 02:28:57 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Hey! Four was my Doctor, and I still have the twelve foot long scarf I got my grandmother to knit me!
You want me to rewatch 26 seasons of a TV series just to make a comment on Fark?!


I hope that my earlier response did not come across as patronising nor otherwise antagonistic.
 
2012-09-03 02:38:52 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: Flint Ironstag: Hey! Four was my Doctor, and I still have the twelve foot long scarf I got my grandmother to knit me!
You want me to rewatch 26 seasons of a TV series just to make a comment on Fark?!

I hope that my earlier response did not come across as patronising nor otherwise antagonistic.


No, I took it as a humorous comment indicative of the typical DW infighting on the net. No offence taken.

/We really need a sarcasm font.
//To be fair I have missed lots of the later Doctors episodes.
 
2012-09-03 02:53:13 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Norfolking Chance: 100 Watt Walrus: //The only cure, ironically, is a bad Doctor
///McCoy cured me in the '80s, emo-Tennant almost cured me again a few years ago

McCoy a bad Doctor?

While some of the early Langford companion episodes were poor but when Aldred was the companion some of the sotries were amongst the best of all of the Doctor's. Remembrance of the Daleks, Curse of Fenric and Ghostlight are fantastic with the climatic scene from Fenric is one of the best scenes in all of Who.

Remembrance was just too damn choppy, as were most Who serials of the era. Most of them feel like there's a whole episode of material missing, and in most cases, there is.

But, you're right that the Ace era, especially the final season, was pretty good. And the extended cuts of Battlefield and Fenric are worth spending money on the DVD to see.

/wish they had done extended cuts of all the McCoy era stuff and added back in the episode worth of material that was cut from every episode, so the stories would finally be coherent.


Yep, there were some moments in Remembrance where I wondered what the hell was going on, but once I teased out the details, the show really was one of the best. That's the way it seemed to be with most of the Ace stories (though there were some crappy ones). I remember watching Ghost Light for the first time and wondering what the hell was happening. When I read a little more about the story, it made perfect sense. It's a shame they couldn't throw in one more episode to decompress the narrative a bit more.

/Ghost Light was originally supposed to explore Ace's sexually abused childhood, from what I heard
//McCoy had the opposite problem of Tom Baker: many of Baker's arcs were a few episodes too long
 
2012-09-03 03:12:09 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: FirstNationalBastard: Norfolking Chance: 100 Watt Walrus: //The only cure, ironically, is a bad Doctor
///McCoy cured me in the '80s, emo-Tennant almost cured me again a few years ago

McCoy a bad Doctor?

While some of the early Langford companion episodes were poor but when Aldred was the companion some of the sotries were amongst the best of all of the Doctor's. Remembrance of the Daleks, Curse of Fenric and Ghostlight are fantastic with the climatic scene from Fenric is one of the best scenes in all of Who.

Remembrance was just too damn choppy, as were most Who serials of the era. Most of them feel like there's a whole episode of material missing, and in most cases, there is.

But, you're right that the Ace era, especially the final season, was pretty good. And the extended cuts of Battlefield and Fenric are worth spending money on the DVD to see.

/wish they had done extended cuts of all the McCoy era stuff and added back in the episode worth of material that was cut from every episode, so the stories would finally be coherent.

Yep, there were some moments in Remembrance where I wondered what the hell was going on, but once I teased out the details, the show really was one of the best. That's the way it seemed to be with most of the Ace stories (though there were some crappy ones). I remember watching Ghost Light for the first time and wondering what the hell was happening. When I read a little more about the story, it made perfect sense. It's a shame they couldn't throw in one more episode to decompress the narrative a bit more.

/Ghost Light was originally supposed to explore Ace's sexually abused childhood, from what I heard
//McCoy had the opposite problem of Tom Baker: many of Baker's arcs were a few episodes too long


Stupid BBC had cut the show down to 14 episode seasons for the McCoy era, so each 3 episode serial literally lost an episode worth of material. On the DVDs from the McCoy era, there's usually around 20 minutes of deleted and extended scenes that, if reintegrated, would probably make the everything make sense.

In the case of Battlefield and Fenric, the Restoration Team did make extended cuts of the serials and edited them into one long film, which helped immensely.

Maybe next year, after the final classic serials are released on DVD, they'll go back and do more feature length special editions (and reconstruct with animation the couple remaining Hartnell and Troughton serials with at least half the episodes surviving). Because you know BBC isn't going to give up on the cash cow so easily.
 
2012-09-03 03:21:53 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Yep, there were some moments in Remembrance where I wondered what the hell was going on, but once I teased out the details, the show really was one of the best. That's the way it seemed to be with most of the Ace stories (though there were some crappy ones). I remember watching Ghost Light for the first time and wondering what the hell was happening. When I read a little more about the story, it made perfect sense. It's a shame they couldn't throw in one more episode to decompress the narrative a bit more.

/Ghost Light was originally supposed to explore Ace's sexually abused childhood, from what I heard
//McCoy had the opposite problem of Tom Baker: many of Baker's arcs were a few episodes too long

Ghost Light

also made a little less sense than it should have because it lacked the foreshadowing that it was supposed to have. It was intended to air after Curse of Fenric. Ace talks about her past and that house in when working with her grandmother in Fenric. It's just like what happened with "Let's Kill Hitler" when "Night Terrors" with its exchange between mum and the boy ("What do we do with things we don't like?" "We put them in the cupboard.") was moved to the second half of the season.

I don't know about her sexually abused past having supposed to be explored in Ghost Light. Ian Briggs, the writer who created her, said that it was supposed to have been more explicit in Dragonfire that she had lost her cherry to Sabalom Glitz. It was obvious that they were an ex-couple or a couple with problems, but not that he had popped her cork. She all but directly states to the Doctor in Fenric that she is not a virgin. She had burned down the by-then abandoned house when she was 13 (long after Ghost Light from the house's perspective) following her black friend's flat being torched and sensing an evil aura from the house.
 
2012-09-03 04:12:47 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Yep, there were some moments in Remembrance where I wondered what the hell was going on, but once I teased out the details, the show really was one of the best. That's the way it seemed to be with most of the Ace stories (though there were some crappy ones). I remember watching Ghost Light for the first time and wondering what the hell was happening. When I read a little more about the story, it made perfect sense. It's a shame they couldn't throw in one more episode to decompress the narrative a bit more.

/Ghost Light was originally supposed to explore Ace's sexually abused childhood, from what I heard
//McCoy had the opposite problem of Tom Baker: many of Baker's arcs were a few episodes too long

Ghost Light also made a little less sense than it should have because it lacked the foreshadowing that it was supposed to have. It was intended to air after Curse of Fenric. Ace talks about her past and that house in when working with her grandmother in Fenric. It's just like what happened with "Let's Kill Hitler" when "Night Terrors" with its exchange between mum and the boy ("What do we do with things we don't like?" "We put them in the cupboard.") was moved to the second half of the season.

I don't know about her sexually abused past having supposed to be explored in Ghost Light. Ian Briggs, the writer who created her, said that it was supposed to have been more explicit in Dragonfire that she had lost her cherry to Sabalom Glitz. It was obvious that they were an ex-couple or a couple with problems, but not that he had popped her cork. She all but directly states to the Doctor in Fenric that she is not a virgin. She had burned down the by-then abandoned house when she was 13 (long after Ghost Light from the house's perspective) following her black friend's flat being torched and sensing an evil aura from the house.


In one of the DWMs, Sophie Aldred mentioned that the wanted to take Ace into the direction that she was abused as a child in the orphanage, which was one of the reasons she burnt it down (evil aura being metaphorical). The idea may not have made it past the initial discussions, but watching both Fenric and Ghost Light with the possibility in mind makes for a new spin on Ace's hatred and desire to blow shiat up.
 
2012-09-03 04:14:29 PM  

Flint Ironstag:
But you missed me compliment you for that very suggestion at 11:38:22?


D'oh! Forgot that was you.

/Now I'm in the echo chamber
//Or am I stuck inside a Dalek?
 
2012-09-03 04:14:45 PM  

Flint Ironstag: semiotix: Flint Ironstag: *Of course I am ready to be corrected on this with dozens of examples that I have forgotten.

Would you settle for knee-jerk, white-hot nerd rage and patronizing accusations that you're a lightweight poseur who is clearly just riding the bandwagon and has probably just only watched a few BBC America episodes from the last season or two? It's a holiday, let's skip all the boring research and go right to the fun part!

Hey! Four was my Doctor, and I still have the twelve foot long scarf I got my grandmother to knit me!

You want me to rewatch 26 seasons of a TV series just to make a comment on Fark?!


Yes, no comments should be made before extensive research. Get to it!

And you are clearly not as hard-core as me, I knit my own scarf ;P Granted, I was in college and already knew how to knit...

/What the hell I'm going to do with a giant wool scarf now that I'm in Virginia, I have no idea
//My roommate and I used to wear it together to go to meals during winter, because we could
 
2012-09-03 04:19:35 PM  

Luthien's Tempest: Flint Ironstag: semiotix: Flint Ironstag: *Of course I am ready to be corrected on this with dozens of examples that I have forgotten.

Would you settle for knee-jerk, white-hot nerd rage and patronizing accusations that you're a lightweight poseur who is clearly just riding the bandwagon and has probably just only watched a few BBC America episodes from the last season or two? It's a holiday, let's skip all the boring research and go right to the fun part!

Hey! Four was my Doctor, and I still have the twelve foot long scarf I got my grandmother to knit me!

You want me to rewatch 26 seasons of a TV series just to make a comment on Fark?!

Yes, no comments should be made before extensive research. Get to it!

And you are clearly not as hard-core as me, I knit my own scarf ;P Granted, I was in college and already knew how to knit...

/What the hell I'm going to do with a giant wool scarf now that I'm in Virginia, I have no idea
//My roommate and I used to wear it together to go to meals during winter, because we could


It gets rather cold in Virginia in the winter. And if the weather is as bad as the overly-panicky media claims it's going to be, you'll be glad you have a 14-foot long scarf.

/but you should also knit a nice Question Mark sweater to go along with it.
 
2012-09-03 05:13:39 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Luthien's Tempest: Flint Ironstag: semiotix: Flint Ironstag: *Of course I am ready to be corrected on this with dozens of examples that I have forgotten.

Would you settle for knee-jerk, white-hot nerd rage and patronizing accusations that you're a lightweight poseur who is clearly just riding the bandwagon and has probably just only watched a few BBC America episodes from the last season or two? It's a holiday, let's skip all the boring research and go right to the fun part!

Hey! Four was my Doctor, and I still have the twelve foot long scarf I got my grandmother to knit me!

You want me to rewatch 26 seasons of a TV series just to make a comment on Fark?!

Yes, no comments should be made before extensive research. Get to it!

And you are clearly not as hard-core as me, I knit my own scarf ;P Granted, I was in college and already knew how to knit...

/What the hell I'm going to do with a giant wool scarf now that I'm in Virginia, I have no idea
//My roommate and I used to wear it together to go to meals during winter, because we could

It gets rather cold in Virginia in the winter. And if the weather is as bad as the overly-panicky media claims it's going to be, you'll be glad you have a 14-foot long scarf.

/but you should also knit a nice Question Mark sweater to go along with it.


I suppose it probably will get cold, but being so close to the beach will probably keep it from getting really cold (I'm in the Hampton Roads/Norfolk/Langley area); I hardly had occasion to wear it to class up at PSU, because it would keep me too warm on my way to class. Also, I loved wearing it and hated finding a place to stash it during class, though at least now my desk/cubicle is in the same building as all of my classes. For now, though, I have it hanging on hooks on the outside of my bedroom door.

The sadist in me is hoping for snow. Not a lot, just a couple inches. It will be hilarious watching the panic. The other new grad student in my department is from Louisiana, that thought does not amuse him nearly as much as it amuses me.

Sweaters and I don't get along. I love wearing them, but lack the patience to knit them. I can never get the front and back to match up (and I *hate* little needles - which is probably why the blanket I knit for my ex while we were dating had three strands, used giant needles, and could be used instead of a comforter and a blanket), and I suspect my question mark would look far more amoeba-like than it ought. Maybe when I'm done grad school...
 
2012-09-03 06:31:38 PM  

Shazam999: Which was an update of this guy:


I think the new ones are a combination, they're slaves like the Robomen, with no thoughts of their own, but the eye-stalk and gun have a lot more in common with the Resurrection style servants of the Daleks.
 
2012-09-03 08:09:58 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: I'm still wondering why Skaro is still around when it was destroyed in 1988.


they might be in 1987
 
2012-09-03 09:13:27 PM  

BarryJV: the eye-stalk and gun have a lot more in common with the Resurrection style servants of the Daleks.


Only in design; in Resurrection, it was just a helmet. They could take them off.
 
2012-09-04 01:08:57 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: ///granted, "Mel" should have been foreshadowed earlier, somehow


With you 100% on this. The character of Mel was pulled out of Moffat's ass for "Let's Kill Hitler," and she was a lousy character too - not the kind of person Amy and Rory would have been best friends with, nor the kind of person who would have been best friends with Amy and Rory. Also, not the kind of person the Doctor would let into the TARDIS, gun or not.

Of course, Moffat seems perfectly willing to play fast and loose with the character traits of Amy and Rory. Rory finds his inner bad-ass in one episode, and in the next he's back to Mr. Milquetoast. In "The Girl Who Waited" (which I just re-watched today as I get my girl caught up on "Doctor Who"), the two of them are set up as having an unbreakable bond of love between them and that they can work through anything togther, and in "Asylum of the Daleks" we're supposed to believe that they wouldn't have talked about the not having children issue like the adult super-couple they're supposed to be, and that instead Amy would set out on a campaign to drive Rory out so he could have biological kids with somebody else - as if the guy who waited 2000 years for her would ever even try to find somebody else. The fact that they didn't talk it out makes the characters (especially Amy) suddenly, and almost insurmountably unlikable.

The more I think about that one, the more pissed off I get at Moffat for treating these two like a blank slate onto which he can draw whatever emotions he needs for this week's episode.
 
2012-09-04 01:32:08 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: StreetlightInTheGhetto: ///granted, "Mel" should have been foreshadowed earlier, somehow

With you 100% on this. The character of Mel was pulled out of Moffat's ass for "Let's Kill Hitler," and she was a lousy character too - not the kind of person Amy and Rory would have been best friends with, nor the kind of person who would have been best friends with Amy and Rory. Also, not the kind of person the Doctor would let into the TARDIS, gun or not.


Assuming he had the sixth season and Mel in mind as far as River Song was concerned, Mel could easily have been foreshadowed at Amy's wedding, or the night Amy farked off with the Doctor before the wedding, Mel could have put the idea into her head to go.

Wouldn't have been that hard to do. Just a brief appearance, maybe a mention or two.
 
2012-09-04 01:35:55 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: 100 Watt Walrus: StreetlightInTheGhetto: ///granted, "Mel" should have been foreshadowed earlier, somehow

With you 100% on this. The character of Mel was pulled out of Moffat's ass for "Let's Kill Hitler," and she was a lousy character too - not the kind of person Amy and Rory would have been best friends with, nor the kind of person who would have been best friends with Amy and Rory. Also, not the kind of person the Doctor would let into the TARDIS, gun or not.

Assuming he had the sixth season and Mel in mind as far as River Song was concerned, Mel could easily have been foreshadowed at Amy's wedding, or the night Amy farked off with the Doctor before the wedding, Mel could have put the idea into her head to go.

Wouldn't have been that hard to do. Just a brief appearance, maybe a mention or two.


Holy crap.

Mrs. Angelo in the 11th hour is name dropped in Forest of the Dead ("Mrs Angelo's rhubarb surprise, will I ever learn").

Effing a, I'm still going with Mrs Angelo = River. Especially since that was the excuse he gave for the Dr breaking through to Donna.
 
2012-09-04 01:50:54 AM  

Norfolking Chance: 100 Watt Walrus: //The only cure, ironically, is a bad Doctor
///McCoy cured me in the '80s, emo-Tennant almost cured me again a few years ago

McCoy a bad Doctor?

While some of the early Langford companion episodes were poor but when Aldred was the companion some of the sotries were amongst the best of all of the Doctor's. Remembrance of the Daleks, Curse of Fenric and Ghostlight are fantastic with the climatic scene from Fenric is one of the best scenes in all of Who.


It wasn't the stories. I just found McCoy's Doctor to be insufferable. I'd liked every Doctor up to that point, and have liked every one since (although I found McGann to be underwhelming), but McCoy just rubbed the the wrong way from the get-go. He always stuck me as an insecure little man putting on airs. I just wanted to punch him.

I tried giving him another chance recently. About a year ago I watched his few episodes available to stream on Netflix, and while he wasn't as nails-on-a-chalkboard to me this time, I still didn't care for him, which could have had a bearing on the fact that I was also not all that impressed by the stories ("Ghost Light" and "Fenric").

/Never really liked Ace, either.
 
2012-09-04 01:54:17 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Holy crap.

Mrs. Angelo in the 11th hour is name dropped in Forest of the Dead ("Mrs Angelo's rhubarb surprise, will I ever learn").

Effing a, I'm still going with Mrs Angelo = River. Especially since that was the excuse he gave for the Dr breaking through to Donna.


Not sure I follow that last sentence. To who are you referring when you say "the excuse he gave" and what do you mean by "the Doctor breaking through to Donna."
 
2012-09-04 02:10:40 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: StreetlightInTheGhetto: Holy crap.

Mrs. Angelo in the 11th hour is name dropped in Forest of the Dead ("Mrs Angelo's rhubarb surprise, will I ever learn").

Effing a, I'm still going with Mrs Angelo = River. Especially since that was the excuse he gave for the Dr breaking through to Donna.

Not sure I follow that last sentence. To who are you referring when you say "the excuse he gave" and what do you mean by "the Doctor breaking through to Donna."


When Dr Moon flickers and the Doctor comes through to Donna, after he un-flickers he says it was Mrs Angelo's rhubarb pie that did it.

That can't be an effing coincidence, name-wise. I can buy props reusing a broach. That showing up in the 2/2 River Song episode, not so much.

/Mel was still lame, though
//not the actress necessarily but as far as the storyline
///the fact that she was so clumsily handled is making me doubt this - but Mrs Angelo showing up more than once, over 2 different Doctors and Companions, eh...
 
2012-09-04 02:24:24 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: 100 Watt Walrus: StreetlightInTheGhetto: Holy crap.

Mrs. Angelo in the 11th hour is name dropped in Forest of the Dead ("Mrs Angelo's rhubarb surprise, will I ever learn").

Effing a, I'm still going with Mrs Angelo = River. Especially since that was the excuse he gave for the Dr breaking through to Donna.

Not sure I follow that last sentence. To who are you referring when you say "the excuse he gave" and what do you mean by "the Doctor breaking through to Donna."

When Dr Moon flickers and the Doctor comes through to Donna, after he un-flickers he says it was Mrs Angelo's rhubarb pie that did it.

That can't be an effing coincidence, name-wise. I can buy props reusing a broach. That showing up in the 2/2 River Song episode, not so much.

/Mel was still lame, though
//not the actress necessarily but as far as the storyline
///the fact that she was so clumsily handled is making me doubt this - but Mrs Angelo showing up more than once, over 2 different Doctors and Companions, eh...


So the fact that Angelo is name dropped in the library episode isn't mentioned here:

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Angelo

But there is another (non-Moffat) episode that has the same name, and there was the first-name-Angelo soldier in the 11th doctor Stone Angel episode (eh, maybe it's first, just Cleric Angelo).

So.... I guess I know what I'm watching next.

/but not tonight
//sweet dreams
///was watching with CC; definitely "Mrs Angelo"
 
2012-09-04 02:30:42 AM  
Sorry, it's rhubarb surprise, not rhubarb pie.

In any case.
 
2012-09-04 02:33:51 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: When Dr Moon flickers and the Doctor comes through to Donna, after he un-flickers he says it was Mrs Angelo's rhubarb pie that did it.

That can't be an effing coincidence, name-wise. I can buy props reusing a broach. That showing up in the 2/2 River Song episode, not so much.

/Mel was still lame, though
//not the actress necessarily but as far as the storyline
///the fact that she was so clumsily handled is making me doubt this - but Mrs Angelo showing up more than once, over 2 different Doctors and Companions, eh...


Not sure if this helps or hurts your theory, but there was also a Cleric surnamed Angelo in "The Time of Angels," also Series 5, and also a River Song episode. Then again, maybe Moffat just likes the name.

If Mrs Angelo is River, I'm calling retcon on Moffat. There's nothing in Mrs Angelo's behavior to indicate she's anything other than a slightly batty old broad. If she were River, I think she'd attempt to help in some way rather than just sit there baffled by her TV running the same program on every channel.

But then again, Moffat doesn't seem to care whether he's flat-out lying to the audience or not, so I wouldn't put it past him. There are many examples of characters who behave a certain way with not even a hint of there being another level to their behavior (sometimes even when nobody but the audience is watching), then it turns out they were putting on an act. And usually if you look at those cases closely, their original behavior doesn't make sense, once the "truth" has been revealed, so who knows what that guy's gonna go.
 
2012-09-04 02:35:49 AM  
Streetlight, my friend, we're officially way too obsessed with this.
 
2012-09-04 02:48:04 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: Streetlight, my friend, we're officially way too obsessed with this.


Cheers to that!

100 Watt Walrus: If she were River, I think she'd attempt to help in some way rather than just sit there baffled by her TV running the same program on every channel.


If she did start aging like a normal person at some point, then maybe just an age/memory thing, not recognizing the 11th at first since the 10th was the most recent in her mind from when the aging process started, I don't know. It's possible it's not River either, which I was almost (reluctantly) convinced about until noticing that name drop tonight, dammit.

/just gonna go ahead and blame the SO for all of this
//both for working so damn hard to get me into the show in the first place, and then for getting Netflix
 
2012-09-04 02:53:31 AM  
Also, *this* is why Fark need pinned discussion threads for certain things. :)

G'night for real now.
 
2012-09-04 02:56:30 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: StreetlightInTheGhetto: Rwa2play: StreetlightInTheGhetto: FirstNationalBastard: Did you miss the, approximately, 50 Doctor Who articles on FARK the past week?

Yeah, actually. Been camping all week. Crappy 3G even in town (for all 4 of us who all had different cells and providers). Just got back today.

Damn! Kinda sucked to be you then, since they've been airing the last two seasons since Friday.

/unless you have them DVRed.
//or Netflixed
///or on DVD

Netflix.

/and expat shield
//ahem

StreetlightInTheGhetto: I'll probably go back and watch 10 and other episodes here and there if they're referenced in current episodes, but man, I gotta draw a line in the sand. Way. too. many. hours of this.

Speaking of which, if anyone can rattle off a "essential episodes" list, that'd be cool.

From just the new series?

Rose and Dalek from Doctor #9

10:

Christmas Invasion
New Earth
School Reunion
Girl in the Fireplace
Runaway Bride
Blink
All of season 4
And, I guess End of Time parts 1 and 2, if you want to see the most emo regeneration ever.

As for classic... well, give me some time if you're talking about classic.


Just noticed this post, and I would absolutely add "The Empty Child"/"The Doctor Dances" for Eccelston. Those episodes are fantastic and scary as hell. The only shortcoming is John Barrowman's overacting and complete inability to convincingly hold a gun. Captain Jack is still a fun character - and this is his introduction - but that guy just doesn't know how to dial it down a notch.
 
2012-09-04 03:20:20 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: FirstNationalBastard: StreetlightInTheGhetto: Rwa2play: StreetlightInTheGhetto: FirstNationalBastard: Did you miss the, approximately, 50 Doctor Who articles on FARK the past week?

Yeah, actually. Been camping all week. Crappy 3G even in town (for all 4 of us who all had different cells and providers). Just got back today.

Damn! Kinda sucked to be you then, since they've been airing the last two seasons since Friday.

/unless you have them DVRed.
//or Netflixed
///or on DVD

Netflix.

/and expat shield
//ahem

StreetlightInTheGhetto: I'll probably go back and watch 10 and other episodes here and there if they're referenced in current episodes, but man, I gotta draw a line in the sand. Way. too. many. hours of this.

Speaking of which, if anyone can rattle off a "essential episodes" list, that'd be cool.

From just the new series?

Rose and Dalek from Doctor #9

10:

Christmas Invasion
New Earth
School Reunion
Girl in the Fireplace
Runaway Bride
Blink
All of season 4
And, I guess End of Time parts 1 and 2, if you want to see the most emo regeneration ever.

As for classic... well, give me some time if you're talking about classic.

Just noticed this post, and I would absolutely add "The Empty Child"/"The Doctor Dances" for Eccelston. Those episodes are fantastic and scary as hell. The only shortcoming is John Barrowman's overacting and complete inability to convincingly hold a gun. Captain Jack is still a fun character - and this is his introduction - but that guy just doesn't know how to dial it down a notch.


I agree.

I also would say that episode 7, the one about Rose's father, and the last couple episodes of the season are needed. The final episode definitely, so one can see what a regeneration is supposed to look like before the Tenth Doctor ruins the whole concept.
 
2012-09-04 03:25:54 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: I agree.

I also would say that episode 7, the one about Rose's father, and the last couple episodes of the season are needed. The final episode definitely, so one can see what a regeneration is supposed to look like before the Tenth Doctor ruins the whole concept.


Amen, brother.

/Semi-off-topic: I sometimes stew over how jaw-dropping Eccelston's regeneration would have been had that Beeb publicist not spilled the beans
 
2012-09-04 03:29:00 AM  

t3knomanser: rynthetyn: It's pretty amazing that nobody got spoilered on Jenna Louise Coleman being in the episode despite it having screened publicly weeks ago.

It was announced that she was in it a long time ago. There was much debate as to whether she was appearing as her companion character, or as somebody else. It's pretty common for actresses to reappear in different roles. Karen Gillian was in the Rome episode.

Now, for it to happen in the same season- well, that would be odd.


Got any citation for this? It seems odd if this were true, seeing as Steven Moffat said this:

"I hope you all got a nice surprise when Jenna popped up in Doctor Who several months early. If so, that surprise came to you courtesy of the frankly magnificent ladies and gentlemen of the press, and of the many Doctor Who forums and blogs too. This show has been seen at four separate screenings, across four different countries and yet not one person gave one spoiler. From all of us on Doctor Who, a heartfelt thank you for helping us tell our story."
 
2012-09-04 04:32:39 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: FirstNationalBastard: I agree.

I also would say that episode 7, the one about Rose's father, and the last couple episodes of the season are needed. The final episode definitely, so one can see what a regeneration is supposed to look like before the Tenth Doctor ruins the whole concept.

Amen, brother.

/Semi-off-topic: I sometimes stew over how jaw-dropping Eccelston's regeneration would have been had that Beeb publicist not spilled the beans


I just hope that when 11 goes out, it's something closer to Eccleston's regeneration, or Davison into Baker 2 than Ten into 11 or Baker 2 into McCoy.
 
2012-09-04 05:10:00 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: I just hope that when 11 goes out, it's something closer to Eccleston's regeneration, or Davison into Baker 2 than Ten into 11 or Baker 2 into McCoy.


Nice, Matt. Nice. But how about you try the line like this:

"I don't WAAAAAAAAAAAAANNA gooooo!"
 
2012-09-04 05:39:32 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: FirstNationalBastard: I just hope that when 11 goes out, it's something closer to Eccleston's regeneration, or Davison into Baker 2 than Ten into 11 or Baker 2 into McCoy.

Nice, Matt. Nice. But how about you try the line like this:

"I don't WAAAAAAAAAAAAANNA gooooo!"


Hey, RTD found a way to make Sylvester McCoy in a clown wig bumping his head on the floor into a respectable regeneration.

That takes talent.
 
2012-09-04 07:26:16 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: I'm watching the episode again, and when we first see Oswin, the Dalek are saying "We will enter!" I don't think they're trying to get into her shell; it's the group of Daleks trying to get into the room she's chained down in.


I wouldn't blame them for trying to break into her shell, ifyaknowwhatImean......

i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2012-09-04 07:45:37 AM  

Flint Ironstag: The way Oswin said "Remember me" at the end and looked at the camera suggested she'd done something.


I'll have to watch the episode again, but the impression I got (which, really, wasn't very much; I tend to
miss things the first time through) was that the 'remember me' was a hint at her having wiped the
Dalek database of all knowledge of the Doctor.
 
2012-09-04 11:18:50 AM  

DjangoStonereaver: I wouldn't blame them for trying to break into her shell, ifyaknowwhatImean......


Waaaaaiiiiitttt. OK, I was trying to figure out the conversion symbolism of the boarded up hatch. Tthe lines of studs running down her belt are her Dalek bumps, the egg wisk on her belt is her similar looking extermination cannon, the rectangular electronic devices on her belt are those rectangular blocks in-between her dome and "skirt" (what are those blocks called? She and many Dalek models have them, but not all do.), the flower in her hair is one of her dome lights, the horizontal ribs along the upper part of her walls are the ribs at the base of her dome, and the view-screen is her eye-stalk. The boarded up hatch doesn't look very much like her plunger, aside from being round (just like the eye-stalk/view-screen), yet I don't see anything plunger-esque in her imaginary flat -- not even a loo with a plunger next to it for when she beefs. Now it makes sense. She's boarded it up, the male-voiced Daleks with their protruding weapons can't get in. The boards are a chastity belt; the hatch is her vag. She's still "going through a phase" as she put it, preferring the fairer sex.

Now, with respect to the broach on Ms Angelo and Dr Song; it seems a lot more like a case of a re-used prop than does the fact that Oswin and Timelord Jenny (not human beastial lesbian Jenny) have the same distinctive big black chair.
 
2012-09-04 02:26:16 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: DjangoStonereaver: I wouldn't blame them for trying to break into her shell, ifyaknowwhatImean......

Waaaaaiiiiitttt. OK, I was trying to figure out the conversion symbolism of the boarded up hatch. Tthe lines of studs running down her belt are her Dalek bumps, the egg wisk on her belt is her similar looking extermination cannon, the rectangular electronic devices on her belt are those rectangular blocks in-between her dome and "skirt" (what are those blocks called? She and many Dalek models have them, but not all do.), the flower in her hair is one of her dome lights, the horizontal ribs along the upper part of her walls are the ribs at the base of her dome, and the view-screen is her eye-stalk. The boarded up hatch doesn't look very much like her plunger, aside from being round (just like the eye-stalk/view-screen), yet I don't see anything plunger-esque in her imaginary flat -- not even a loo with a plunger next to it for when she beefs. Now it makes sense. She's boarded it up, the male-voiced Daleks with their protruding weapons can't get in. The boards are a chastity belt; the hatch is her vag. She's still "going through a phase" as she put it, preferring the fairer sex.


www.kasterborus.com
Jiggity!
 
2012-09-04 03:19:27 PM  

100 Watt Walrus: [www.kasterborus.com image 640x362]
Jiggity!


Notwithstanding Gallifreyan transliteration, I believe it's spelled:
profile.ak.fbcdn.net
 
2012-09-04 04:39:46 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: 100 Watt Walrus: [www.kasterborus.com image 640x362]
Jiggity!

Notwithstanding Gallifreyan transliteration, I believe it's spelled:
[profile.ak.fbcdn.net image 200x214]


I spelled it as they do in the language of the Gamma Forests.
 
2012-09-04 05:32:37 PM  

100 Watt Walrus: I spelled it as they do in the language of the Gamma Forests.


Lorna's hometown's power supply was measured in jiggawatts, wasn't it?
 
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