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(NCSoft)   I guess in the end, the good guys don't win. Farewell to more than five years of superheroes   (na.cityofheroes.com) divider line 123
    More: Sad, Paragon Studios, Paragon system  
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12198 clicks; posted to Geek » on 01 Sep 2012 at 10:36 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-01 10:47:31 AM  
The game wasn't the biggest kid in the sandbox, but I think they did very well for themselves. We had new content, new powersets coming down the pipeline and then BAM. As bad as it is for the players (I myself have been playing for about 4 years out of the 8 years they've been online, I made some awesome friends, but I feel especially terrible for the dev team, Paragon Studios, who all suddenly received the pinkslip and now have to search for another job in this tough economy.

NCsoft is making a big mistake.
 
2012-09-01 10:53:12 AM  
Good run CoH.

Paragon, you've earned respect within the biz. You should have nothing but pride in your creations. Good luck.
 
2012-09-01 10:54:15 AM  
Sunset isnot a verb, article writer.
 
2012-09-01 10:55:08 AM  
This is really sad. The game was absolutely awesome and fun to play. A real departure from all the D&D derived mmorpgs and an easy, casual friendly game mechanic.

Not to mention the really great custimizeable costumes and skill sets. This game was a real joy to play. One of my all time favorites.

It's a shame to see it go, but I guess you just can't compete with the name brand franchises.
 
2012-09-01 10:56:31 AM  

NetOwl: Sunset isnot a verb, article writer.


It's a commonly used term in online gaming, and is the act (verb) of closing out a game.
 
2012-09-01 10:59:26 AM  

NetOwl: Sunset isnot a verb, article writer.


It is, in terms of ending software support. It's a common usage verb in the industry. Wiithin that context, it is correctly used. But it is specific to use when describing discontinued software. It's a term of art dating back to the 90s.
 
2012-09-01 11:01:46 AM  

NetOwl: Sunset isnot a verb, article writer.


If you can word it you can verb it.
 
2012-09-01 11:05:24 AM  
My SG friends and I are taking the time we have left to do Memorial Portraits of our heroes and villains

/has a sad
//anyone got a wakie?
 
2012-09-01 11:06:58 AM  
I'm getting Internet installed Wednesday and I was thinking about rebooting my old CoH heroes. I never made it past level twelve with any of them, but honestly creating them was my favorite part. CoH was the only mmo I could stand to play.
 
2012-09-01 11:08:19 AM  

bingo the psych-o: NetOwl: Sunset isnot a verb, article writer.

If you can word it you can verb it.


I plan to memory that rule.
 
2012-09-01 11:12:37 AM  

DisposableSavior: I'm getting Internet installed Wednesday and I was thinking about rebooting my old CoH heroes. I never made it past level twelve with any of them, but honestly creating them was my favorite part. CoH was the only mmo I could stand to play.


I absolutely adored the character creator in that game, even though I only played the first few months from launch. I would have played longer but my friends who got me into it in the first place, got into the WoW beta and eventually they bought me a copy of that at launch, so... yeah. Also back then you couldn't solo worth a damn on most classes.

Barb B Q the flame controller lives on in my heart though.
 
2012-09-01 11:21:06 AM  
And even though I haven't been there in a while, I guess that's the end of The Mighty Roach's career. I still kind of miss jumping from rooftop to rooftop. Oh well. I still have DC Heroes on the PS3.
 
2012-09-01 11:25:40 AM  
I hope this is the death knell for the "free to play" and "freemium" games trend.

They're never free - they just move the expense from one not-very-large monthly fee to a whole bunch of small fees (for everything from new costumes to auction house access). It might, if you're careful, cost slightly less per month, but overall the expense + annoyance is worse.
 
2012-09-01 11:25:58 AM  
CoH/CoV is a fond memory for me. It stood out as an excellent contrast to WOW and even the games designed specifically to replace it, like Champions online, paled in comparison to that "something special" that it had.

It will be missed.
 
2012-09-01 11:27:32 AM  

Must've got a lot bettert from the time I played CoH from the time it came to market. Costume creation and skills set were awesome (and I loved my teleporting ability!) but the battles, NPCs and 'dungeons' were just repetitive in the beginning. And not a lot of good soloing opportunities back then.


I always wanted to go back and try City of Villians, that looked fun. But I'm not surprised CoHs is closing, not even WoW is doing as well as it used to.

 
2012-09-01 11:28:07 AM  
A friend and I just started playing this on weekends, and we are not getting a kick out of this. While it isn't as polished as DC Universe, it had a lot of charm and we had fun. Thankfully, there are going to be plenty of other F2P MMO games out there, but I am going to miss this one. Like others have said, the character creator is fantastic, and the character I'm running is one of my favorites I've ever made.
 
2012-09-01 11:29:00 AM  
There's not a single other MMO currently on the market that is able to keep my attention for more than 30 minutes as they're all so horribly derivative of each other, or just flat out boring. City of Heroes kept me subscribed since beta, and this is pretty shiatty of NCSoft to do. The game was apparently still profitable, and the reasons NCSoft have given thus far are vague.

Hopefully the awesome people at Paragon Studios can find new jobs quickly.
 
2012-09-01 11:34:30 AM  

jagermech: The game wasn't the biggest kid in the sandbox, but I think they did very well for themselves. We had new content, new powersets coming down the pipeline and then BAM. As bad as it is for the players (I myself have been playing for about 4 years out of the 8 years they've been online, I made some awesome friends, but I feel especially terrible for the dev team, Paragon Studios, who all suddenly received the pinkslip and now have to search for another job in this tough economy.

NCsoft is making a big mistake.


The dev team will be fine. Programmers are in high demand. Office assistants, not so much.

Always sad to see a good mmo get shut down.
 
2012-09-01 11:41:55 AM  
I never played this and have no specific memories of it. But the closure of an MMO always makes me sad. An entire world disappearing. All that time spent on it gone in a puff of smoke.
 
2012-09-01 11:42:10 AM  
WOO-HOO! FREE SERVERS FOR ALL!

/You know it'll happen, might take a year or so, but it'll happen.
 
2012-09-01 11:47:29 AM  

TheOriginalEd: I never played this and have no specific memories of it. But the closure of an MMO always makes me sad. An entire world disappearing. All that time spent on it gone in a puff of smoke.


I'm suddenly even more sad. It was a good game, I played in early on for a bit and really enjoyed it. Hope everyone finds a new home!
 
2012-09-01 11:48:34 AM  
In other words "Your parent company screwed up and costs need to be cut"

/City of Heroes is and was a damn fine game to toy around with
 
2012-09-01 11:48:48 AM  
Sad to see the game go. My first MMO and one fo my favorites. I wonder if someone might set up private servers for the game so that folks can play on.
 
2012-09-01 11:53:54 AM  

NetOwl: Sunset isnot a verb, article writer.


What do you have against anthimeria?
 
2012-09-01 11:54:08 AM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: In other words "Your parent company screwed up and costs need to be cut"

/City of Heroes is and was a damn fine game to toy around with


This is the vibe many of us are getting in-game as well.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-08-08-ncsoft-makes-q2-loss - amid-spiralling-costs
 
2012-09-01 12:03:04 PM  
I played for a while. Had a corrupter in COV and whatever the healing analogue in COH was. The male is the corrupter and the female is the analogue:

img.photobucket.com

img.photobucket.com

I think a serious problem existed in the repetition of the game. Good concept but the execution needed some work.

I would propose an MMOFPS similar to Global Agenda that had shield and hydra operatives. A comic book based MMO of that sort would do better I think.
 
2012-09-01 12:03:35 PM  
literal 'hero' tag would have been good there.
 
2012-09-01 12:04:52 PM  
i tried DCU online for a bit but it was quite meh. i just uninstalled yesterday after about 9 months of inactivity.
 
2012-09-01 12:06:48 PM  
This was actually my first MMORPG, and the only time I remember someone getting completely chewed out because they acted like tools by people who did not know me. My favorite moment playing a MMORPG.

"Dude, you should have been able to keep me up! What the hell are you doing?"
*As I start to say "I'm sorry."*
"Screw you! He kept the rest of us up just fine."
"Yeah, you ran to your own death, fool."
"Idiot. He's the best healer I've had since I've started this game."

/I was playing a healer with as few combat abilities as possible, I even used the pathetic little radius heal.
//I took my second attack ability at level 20 on sufferance, as I recall... I had all the heals already.
///A good healer is worth his weight in gold, so is a good tank, even excellent strikers are a dime a dozen.
 
2012-09-01 12:13:34 PM  

Jurodan: This was actually my first MMORPG, and the only time I remember someone getting completely chewed out because they acted like tools by people who did not know me. My favorite moment playing a MMORPG.

"Dude, you should have been able to keep me up! What the hell are you doing?"
*As I start to say "I'm sorry."*
"Screw you! He kept the rest of us up just fine."
"Yeah, you ran to your own death, fool."
"Idiot. He's the best healer I've had since I've started this game."

/I was playing a healer with as few combat abilities as possible, I even used the pathetic little radius heal.
//I took my second attack ability at level 20 on sufferance, as I recall... I had all the heals already.
///A good healer is worth his weight in gold, so is a good tank, even excellent strikers are a dime a dozen.


That was actually one of the beautiful things about where the game ended up though...you didn't NEED a healer in a group. I can remember running blaster-only task forces and rocking the world of everything that got thrown in front of us.

There were plenty of support power sets that didn't have any healing abilities in them, and they were all effective.
 
2012-09-01 12:14:57 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: This is really sad. The game was absolutely awesome and fun to play. A real departure from all the D&D derived mmorpgs and an easy, casual friendly game mechanic.

Not to mention the really great custimizeable costumes and skill sets. This game was a real joy to play. One of my all time favorites.

It's a shame to see it go, but I guess you just can't compete with the name brand franchises.


NCsoft is a pretty big name overseas in the MMO market. They may be refocusing on where they want to target consumers though (I.E. Guild Wars 2 just launched a couple days ago.)

I liked CoH I played beta and it was a lot of fun but at the time I was largely invested in Lineage II. It's odd that they would just straight up close the doors on it though considering they changed Lineage II from a subscription platform to free with the option to buy things.
 
2012-09-01 12:30:41 PM  
NcSoft is making a large mistake here, they are alienating a large player base. Practivally every post on CoH's boards are "We understand MMO's are not eternal but I'll never play a NcSoft game again based on how horribly you handled this".
 
2012-09-01 12:46:18 PM  

dababler: NcSoft is making a large mistake here, they are alienating a large player base. Practivally every post on CoH's boards are "We understand MMO's are not eternal but I'll never play a NcSoft game again based on how horribly you handled this".


Calling CoH's current playerbase "large" is laughable.

I played for 7+ years, had over 30000 posts on their forums and saw the writing on the wall a year ago. Too many bad decisions from the devs killed it. Nothing else.

I still wish the best for them as people but it's well past time for them to shut the servers down.
 
2012-09-01 12:46:44 PM  
I'm really really sorry about this. COH is a wonderful environment and the real fun of the game is the character creation which incredibly flexible and just keeps (kept) getting better and better -- running the characters up in level was really only fun because you got a place to work with those characters you created.

I certainly don't know anything remotely comparable in the Superhero genre and I am very sad right now.
 
2012-09-01 12:48:10 PM  
I has a sad. This was great fun for four years.
 
2012-09-01 12:56:24 PM  
Tsetse Fly misses Fly Friends on CoH, but game sucked way too much time.

The feeling of being among the first Supergroups to take down each new version of Hamidon was amazing though.

Long Live Evolution!

(At least a few of us got featured in the comics!)
 
2012-09-01 12:57:24 PM  

dababler: NcSoft is making a large mistake here, they are alienating a large player base. Practivally every post on CoH's boards are "We understand MMO's are not eternal but I'll never play a NcSoft game again based on how horribly you handled this".


Idle threats by people that don't have any will to move on with their lives, people are doing the same thing to Blizzard. Every update gets the same response about how blizz dropped the ball/people saying they are never going to play another Blizz game YET those same people are still sticking around to complain every day and raise a storm after each patch is released even though they already quit playing for good and will never buy another Blizz prouct. You will likely see these same types of players running rampant on the NCsoft forums denouncing NCsoft for whatever they do but still stick around as nuisances.

How can NCsoft handle it better? The customers already know that MMOs don't go on forever. Do they need more time to part with their virtual heroes? Will there ever be a time when they could move on and live without their heroes? If the answer is no to that last question then they were going to get this same response whenever they shut it down.
 
2012-09-01 12:58:57 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: This is really sad. The game was absolutely awesome and fun to play. A real departure from all the D&D derived mmorpgs and an easy, casual friendly game mechanic.

Not to mention the really great custimizeable costumes and skill sets. This game was a real joy to play. One of my all time favorites.

It's a shame to see it go, but I guess you just can't compete with the name brand franchises.


Name brands don't guarantee quality or success in the MMORPG world.

The Matrix Online failed hard.

Star Wars Galaxies was a fizzle followed by a long, slow fade out.

The modern MMORPG craze really got going with Everquest, which wasn't a franchise before it created it.
 
2012-09-01 01:05:26 PM  

Tenatra: dababler: NcSoft is making a large mistake here, they are alienating a large player base. Practivally every post on CoH's boards are "We understand MMO's are not eternal but I'll never play a NcSoft game again based on how horribly you handled this".

Idle threats by people that don't have any will to move on with their lives, people are doing the same thing to Blizzard. Every update gets the same response about how blizz dropped the ball/people saying they are never going to play another Blizz game YET those same people are still sticking around to complain every day and raise a storm after each patch is released even though they already quit playing for good and will never buy another Blizz prouct. You will likely see these same types of players running rampant on the NCsoft forums denouncing NCsoft for whatever they do but still stick around as nuisances.

How can NCsoft handle it better? The customers already know that MMOs don't go on forever. Do they need more time to part with their virtual heroes? Will there ever be a time when they could move on and live without their heroes? If the answer is no to that last question then they were going to get this same response whenever they shut it down.


Well, most of the problem is how NCSoft is handling this.

From what I understand, apparently Aion's transition to F2P bombed heavily, and that game had already been bleeding NCSoft. But because they're unwilling to give it up, Paragon is taking the fall.
 
2012-09-01 01:06:47 PM  
I played ultima online once. the second I got out of town I was attacked by people. I respawned and then was killed by a bunny rabbit. I've never given an MMO another thought.
 
2012-09-01 01:17:09 PM  
NEMESIS PLOT.

/No seriously, I have a sad. =(.
 
2012-09-01 01:17:46 PM  
This is the reason why:

Cryptic Studios kept the original rights and engine when they separated from NCSoft and sold a 5-year licence to the company. Those 5 years are now up, and since that time Cryptic Studios has developed Champions Online, been bought out by Atari, which was itself bought out by Perfect World. Seeing how Perfect World is another Korean Developer with a Super Hero MMO of its own, it clearly doesn't want competition. Therefore, they will not sell the renewal licence to NCSoft or have made the licence fees too high for profitability.
 
2012-09-01 01:21:14 PM  

rocky_howard: This is the reason why:

Cryptic Studios kept the original rights and engine when they separated from NCSoft and sold a 5-year licence to the company. Those 5 years are now up, and since that time Cryptic Studios has developed Champions Online, been bought out by Atari, which was itself bought out by Perfect World. Seeing how Perfect World is another Korean Developer with a Super Hero MMO of its own, it clearly doesn't want competition. Therefore, they will not sell the renewal licence to NCSoft or have made the licence fees too high for profitability.


... Huh, I did not realize this. So it's NOT NC Soft's fault.

... And yeah, I can see Cryptic pulling that move...
 
2012-09-01 01:22:49 PM  

Felgraf: ... Huh, I did not realize this. So it's NOT NC Soft's fault.

... And yeah, I can see Cryptic pulling that move...


Exactly. That's why the article references 5 years when COH has existed for 8 years now.

They were just referring to the 5 years Paragon Studios was behind the project after Cryptic left.
 
2012-09-01 01:24:09 PM  

rocky_howard: This is the reason why:

Cryptic Studios kept the original rights and engine when they separated from NCSoft and sold a 5-year licence to the company. Those 5 years are now up, and since that time Cryptic Studios has developed Champions Online, been bought out by Atari, which was itself bought out by Perfect World. Seeing how Perfect World is another Korean Developer with a Super Hero MMO of its own, it clearly doesn't want competition. Therefore, they will not sell the renewal licence to NCSoft or have made the licence fees too high for profitability.


This is a rumor and has not been confirmed...do you have a source for this or perhaps...a citation?
 
2012-09-01 01:28:10 PM  

rocky_howard: Felgraf: ... Huh, I did not realize this. So it's NOT NC Soft's fault.

... And yeah, I can see Cryptic pulling that move...

Exactly. That's why the article references 5 years when COH has existed for 8 years now.

They were just referring to the 5 years Paragon Studios was behind the project after Cryptic left.


Also, Paragon studios was working on another project. They had a 'new mmo' under construction. It makes no sense that NCsoft would scrap the whole production studio when they were working on another game as well, just because of this license. Back Alley Brawler, who currently works for Cryptic and worked for Paragon Studios for a long time says he has no knowledge of anything like this.
 
2012-09-01 01:32:04 PM  

Poorlytoldjoke: I played ultima online once. the second I got out of town I was attacked by people. I respawned and then was killed by a bunny rabbit. I've never given an MMO another thought.


Which is exactly why PKing was removed (well, severely curtailed) probably not long after you played.

Come back, as an industry MMO developers have learned a lot since then.

/it would have been worth it for you to stick around to hear the butthurt from the player killers when they got gelded
//hell, one will probably start foaming at the mouth and respond to this
 
2012-09-01 01:39:09 PM  

GRCooper: Poorlytoldjoke: I played ultima online once. the second I got out of town I was attacked by people. I respawned and then was killed by a bunny rabbit. I've never given an MMO another thought.

Which is exactly why PKing was removed (well, severely curtailed) probably not long after you played.

Come back, as an industry MMO developers have learned a lot since then.

/it would have been worth it for you to stick around to hear the butthurt from the player killers when they got gelded
//hell, one will probably start foaming at the mouth and respond to this


I think one of my favorite moments in that game was shortly before the introduction of Trammel (I think?). I was mining ore north of Minoc, near one of the "Lost Land" entrances. Or it was after Trammel, but I was on Feluca to get some ore, I can't remember. Probably the latter.

You know, the ones that have a small Guard Zone surrounding them?

Got attacked by a PK, I fled into the guard zone that they apparently forgot was there, and, well...
I got a loooottt of gold from that, because they apparently had a fairly high bounty on their head. And some nice stuff.

More amusing was how pissed they were.
 
2012-09-01 01:50:10 PM  

cirby: I hope this is the death knell for the "free to play" and "freemium" games trend.


Don't count on it. If anything, expect F2P with microtransactions to be the future. Even Blizzard may have to make WoW that way because let's face it. It's gonna take more than Kung Fu Pandas to keep that ship afloat.
 
2012-09-01 01:55:29 PM  

GRCooper: Poorlytoldjoke: I played ultima online once. the second I got out of town I was attacked by people. I respawned and then was killed by a bunny rabbit. I've never given an MMO another thought.

Which is exactly why PKing was removed (well, severely curtailed) probably not long after you played.

Come back, as an industry MMO developers have learned a lot since then.

/it would have been worth it for you to stick around to hear the butthurt from the player killers when they got gelded
//hell, one will probably start foaming at the mouth and respond to this


That was my first experience with MMOs as well,being ganked in UO ona 14 day freebie before I even knew how to move properly.


Realistically, though, while this -could be due to dickishness from PWI )which, for the record, is a CHINESE company, not korean...) or it -could- be because of NCSoft's historic prejudice against properties not designed in korea (Auto Assault/Tabula Rasa), or it Could simply be poor management.


In my own personalopinion... It was time, the game was long since past in prime, and nowhere what originally made the game special at launch.

Early on there was no loot that couldn't be bought in a store, the game only had -one- true raid, and that was largely for bragging rights as the loot reward wasn't really all that much better than the standard loot. Mostimportantly. NO AUCTION HOUSE.

Now? the game has an auction house, high tier sets of enhancements, trials to unlock "Incarnate (basically Demigod)" powers that, to get the most out of, you have to run repeatedly, reducing a game where most achievements were about bragging rights into a game where people grindthe same content ad nauseum

You know, like WoW.

But, before I talk about the onion I used to wear on my belt given the style back in the good old days, , they took an amazing, original, new concept, and turned it into WoW

/ Shao Pai Long, Virtue Server
// MA/Regen Scrapper back from the days when even mentioning regen made blasters butthurt
 
2012-09-01 02:04:59 PM  
It has been years since I played CoH. It was my first and only MMO, and while it had major issues it was still a great time. I played every type of tank and did so before the major overhaul that made playing them manageable.(started out with invuln tank without teleport back when status protection made you unable to move) Unfortunate that it is going, but understandable.

/Leehouse, virtue server.
 
2012-09-01 02:05:31 PM  

Rreal: / Shao Pai Long, Virtue Server
// MA/Regen Scrapper back from the days when even mentioning regen made blasters butthurt


I always missed the drama in the forums. Why did Regen make blasters butthurt again?

/Felgraf, Pinnacle. Fire/Ice blaster, just for theme.
//Fire Mastery and the Medicine power pool apparently made me surprisingly useful on occasion! I could take our group from a wipe to back up-and running, by Rise of the Phoneix-ing, and then rezzing the defender while I was invulnerable. That was always fun.
 
2012-09-01 02:05:39 PM  
I thought CoH was a good game, just not a great MMO.
 
2012-09-01 02:08:50 PM  
I really hope the wiki and things stay up. I really, really loved the backstory and world-setting, and would love to use it in a GURPS-ish game sometime.

/I know there is a CoH specific pen-and-paper, I just don't know how GOOD it is.
 
2012-09-01 02:09:35 PM  

bingo the psych-o: NetOwl: Sunset isnot a verb, article writer.

If you can word it you can verb it.


Verbing weirds language.
 
2012-09-01 02:15:24 PM  

cirby: I hope this is the death knell for the "free to play" and "freemium" games trend.

They're never free - they just move the expense from one not-very-large monthly fee to a whole bunch of small fees (for everything from new costumes to auction house access). It might, if you're careful, cost slightly less per month, but overall the expense + annoyance is worse.


From what I've seen, F2P games are taking over the market. Game companies see it as the next big cash cow, having seen it successfully done by Valve, Zynga, and others. The subscription model used from the late nineties has fallen by the wayside, along with the derelicts of many traditional MMOs that had big promise but ultimately failed.
 
2012-09-01 02:19:14 PM  

Codenamechaz: Tenatra: dababler: NcSoft is making a large mistake here, they are alienating a large player base. Practivally every post on CoH's boards are "We understand MMO's are not eternal but I'll never play a NcSoft game again based on how horribly you handled this".

Idle threats by people that don't have any will to move on with their lives, people are doing the same thing to Blizzard. Every update gets the same response about how blizz dropped the ball/people saying they are never going to play another Blizz game YET those same people are still sticking around to complain every day and raise a storm after each patch is released even though they already quit playing for good and will never buy another Blizz prouct. You will likely see these same types of players running rampant on the NCsoft forums denouncing NCsoft for whatever they do but still stick around as nuisances.

How can NCsoft handle it better? The customers already know that MMOs don't go on forever. Do they need more time to part with their virtual heroes? Will there ever be a time when they could move on and live without their heroes? If the answer is no to that last question then they were going to get this same response whenever they shut it down.

Well, most of the problem is how NCSoft is handling this.

From what I understand, apparently Aion's transition to F2P bombed heavily, and that game had already been bleeding NCSoft. But because they're unwilling to give it up, Paragon is taking the fall.


What a terrible business decision. No large river refuses any small stream.
 
2012-09-01 02:25:32 PM  
Lol, qq-ers.

Bend over and feel my SWG for a while. Blizzard is a pale imitator.

NCsoft "lost" as in "misplaced" six point four MILLION dollars this year. They literally farked themselves for the total value of CoH and now they're paying severance on CoH employees... which is like farking yourself again for farking yourself too much.

Stupid. Incompetent. Bad model. Poor quality games. Copies of failures. Then they take their only actual success and fail it too.
 
2012-09-01 02:37:40 PM  

GRCooper: Poorlytoldjoke: I played ultima online once. the second I got out of town I was attacked by people. I respawned and then was killed by a bunny rabbit. I've never given an MMO another thought.

Which is exactly why PKing was removed (well, severely curtailed) probably not long after you played.

Come back, as an industry MMO developers have learned a lot since then.

/it would have been worth it for you to stick around to hear the butthurt from the player killers when they got gelded
//hell, one will probably start foaming at the mouth and respond to this


When Everquest first came out, right after UO had it's big boom, I had friends who wanted me to play.

I'd heard the horror stories of PvP on UO and told them I didn't want any part of it. They told me that EQ had solved the problem.

More-or-less it had. You couldn't attack or be attacked by another player unless you had consented, which to do so required a very specific act, but it was also completely irreversable and becoming PvP meant that PvE players couldn't heal or buff you, so there was pretty much no reason to be PvP on a normal server.

Of course, EQ had it's own huge flaws like having to grind so horribly hard to get ahead and having such harsh death penalties that a casual player would never see anything close to the bulk of the content, and making quests so Byzantine and obscure that elaborate quests were things you looked up on the web, not found in person. Getting totally lost in the woods or even in a main city were routine occurrences. The fact that the city maps in the very first EQ users manual were outright wrong (seriously, the map of Kelethin in there was total fiction!), meant I spent entire nights just trying to find my skill trainer.

I was a casual EQ player for 2 years, and never was able to get my main character over 27th level because I was interested in roleplaying, exploring, and trade skills instead of just camping spawns all the time. Thus, I never saw the bulk of the game in anything except screenshots.

I played WoW for about a year. It was much better, but still a huge timesink. I now play DDO off-and-on, and I'm considering trying out Guild Wars since my wife likes it so much.
 
2012-09-01 02:51:53 PM  
Never played it, but stopped at a cybercafe in LA and saw a homeless guy playing it.

Didn't see if his character was modeled after Rorschach.

Wrists got f'ked up from that timesink called WoW, so I'm avoiding MMO's. Was going to make an exception for the Warhammer 40K MMO but that was cancelled ...
 
2012-09-01 02:55:07 PM  

Felgraf: Rreal: / Shao Pai Long, Virtue Server
// MA/Regen Scrapper back from the days when even mentioning regen made blasters butthurt

I always missed the drama in the forums. Why did Regen make blasters butthurt again?

/Felgraf, Pinnacle. Fire/Ice blaster, just for theme.
//Fire Mastery and the Medicine power pool apparently made me surprisingly useful on occasion! I could take our group from a wipe to back up-and running, by Rise of the Phoneix-ing, and then rezzing the defender while I was invulnerable. That was always fun.


Well, Fel, for a few reasons, one was this overwhelming belief at the time on the forums, that being able to not fold like wet tissue paper in melee, and yet still have comparable damage output to a blaster (which, as a fire blaster, you know to be crap, since our damage was 90% single target...) made us freakishly overpowered.

The other, well, as far as regen was concerned, pre.. issue 4 or so they were entirely right. Shao, given her pre -ED spec could solo some archvillains, and effectively survive the attacks of others. Instant Healing, which was a toggle back then, with how much healing i had specced into it, guaranteed that any one mob that couldn't one shot me couldn't kill me either.

I would go into how Tanks posted videos of soloing AVs that I couldn't even have a hope of fighting, but apparently the blaster community didn't care, as they weren't scrappers.
 
2012-09-01 03:10:16 PM  
DAMNIT! This is the one mmo I've repeatedly come back to over the last 6 years. I've always loved this game, and Billman was a fun character to play. I just made a new character the other day, too. Maaaaan. Guess id better focus on knocking out all that end game content I've been missing while I can.
 
2012-09-01 03:11:37 PM  

cirby: I hope this is the death knell for the "free to play" and "freemium" games trend.

They're never free - they just move the expense from one not-very-large monthly fee to a whole bunch of small fees (for everything from new costumes to auction house access). It might, if you're careful, cost slightly less per month, but overall the expense + annoyance is worse.


Is it that difficult to keep your wallet closed?
I've been enjoying "freemium" games for a while now. Dropped a few hundred hours (and not a single dime) into Battlefield P4F, Tribes, Star Trek Online, Battleground Europe and Everquest.
 
2012-09-01 03:40:53 PM  

AnEvilGuest: bingo the psych-o: NetOwl: Sunset isnot a verb, article writer.

If you can word it you can verb it.

I plan to memory that rule.


or quote Calvin and Hobbes: "Verbing weirds language"
 
2012-09-01 03:41:05 PM  

ThatBillmanGuy: DAMNIT! This is the one mmo I've repeatedly come back to over the last 6 years. I've always loved this game, and Billman was a fun character to play. I just made a new character the other day, too. Maaaaan. Guess id better focus on knocking out all that end game content I've been missing while I can.


This basically.

I've left behind mmos and never looked back for various reasons, CoH was the one game I only game I ever came back to over and over again after I "quit".
 
2012-09-01 03:42:47 PM  

AnEvilGuest: bingo the psych-o: NetOwl: Sunset isnot a verb, article writer.

If you can word it you can verb it.

I plan to memory that rule.


Seconded.
 
2012-09-01 03:57:01 PM  

Lizard_SF: bingo the psych-o: NetOwl: Sunset isnot a verb, article writer.

If you can word it you can verb it.

Verbing weirds language.


Damn you.

madshakespeare.com
 
2012-09-01 04:00:19 PM  

jagermech: NCsoft is making a big mistake.


Yep. The translation I get from that page reads a bit like this:

Our parent company decided it'd rather chase the statistical outlier of the MMO world (i.e. WoW) and anything that doesn't instantly get 12+ million subscribers is getting burnt even if it is currently making them a nice amount of money.

As we don't have 12+ million subscribers and are unlikely to ever get 12+ million subscribers this new focus by our parent means we're outta here, later folks.

If you're a company with an MMO and it's making a profit, be happy with what you've got.
 
2012-09-01 04:12:22 PM  

BokChoy: The subscription model used from the late nineties has fallen by the wayside, along with the derelicts of many traditional MMOs that had big promise but ultimately failed.


In the boardroom of any company making an MMO their is a chant from the boardroom "Gotta beat WoW, Gotta beat WoW, no matter what we gotta beat WoW!" a month after release this changes to "Have we beat Wow? Have we beat WoW?" then becomes "Where's our 12 million subscribers and $2 billion?" this is usually followed by "We didn't beat WoW, kill it." it may well take a while for the board members to do this but it's almost always the reason why.

Fundamentally there is nothing really wrong with the subscription model for an MMO, however people are exceptionally unlikely to pay subscriptions to two games which are mechanically similar to each other. But different genres and mechanics? Potentially yes. Plenty of people have active subscriptions of say WoW and EVE:Online, two exceptionally different games.

That doesn't mean every MMO has to be subscription based nor does every MMO need to be F2P with cash shop... it depends what your MMO is bringing to the table; if it's a niche product then it may well do better with a sub than it would F2P... if it's (and I mean honestly not how it's marketed) just a reskin of something... popular... F2P is probably best.

And as TOR demonstrates... not every game should be an MMO (subscription or F2P) to begin with, sometimes you should just sell it for £50 on Steam and put out expansion packs every so often.
 
2012-09-01 04:16:59 PM  
Perhaps I should log A. Machiavelli back in one last time.
 
2012-09-01 04:21:16 PM  
Well looks like the next three months I'm going to try to Get Summoner Dustra to level 50.

/Sign the petition. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncsoft-keep-ncsoft-from-shutting-down- city-of-heroes
 
2012-09-01 04:51:03 PM  
On a semi unrelated note , I wish Hellgate London got a second chance.
 
2012-09-01 05:09:46 PM  
This sucks. I used to play this back in the day. Had a voodoo-themed Dark/Dark Defender named Papa Ghede, and an Energy/Elec Blaster named The Devolutionary (modeled after DEVO, of course).
 
2012-09-01 05:17:03 PM  

Tenatra: dababler: NcSoft is making a large mistake here, they are alienating a large player base. Practivally every post on CoH's boards are "We understand MMO's are not eternal but I'll never play a NcSoft game again based on how horribly you handled this".

Idle threats by people that don't have any will to move on with their lives, people are doing the same thing to Blizzard. Every update gets the same response about how blizz dropped the ball/people saying they are never going to play another Blizz game YET those same people are still sticking around to complain every day and raise a storm after each patch is released even though they already quit playing for good and will never buy another Blizz prouct. You will likely see these same types of players running rampant on the NCsoft forums denouncing NCsoft for whatever they do but still stick around as nuisances.

How can NCsoft handle it better? The customers already know that MMOs don't go on forever. Do they need more time to part with their virtual heroes? Will there ever be a time when they could move on and live without their heroes? If the answer is no to that last question then they were going to get this same response whenever they shut it down.


If they needed to shut down CoH (which I don't think they did, since... well... it's the only one of their MMOs that actually has mainstream traction, and even if they didn't want to run it anymore, they probably could have licensed it all out to someone else), probably a better way to handle it would have been to announce it in advance and have the devs ramp up one last, big story event to really take it out with a bang. Not lay off the devs and tell the players, "We're closing shop at the end of the year, try not to let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."

What I'm saying is that, if they're going to end the game, the least they could do is give it a proper ending.
 
2012-09-01 05:56:40 PM  

NetOwl: Sunset isnot a verb, article writer.


It's an accepted synonym for something being phased out:

"...Most of the Bush tax cuts were due to sunset in 2010." 

English, being a living language, evolves over time.
 
2012-09-01 06:52:00 PM  

Gergesa: I would propose an MMOFPS similar to Global Agenda that had shield and hydra operatives. A comic book based MMO of that sort would do better I think.


I would play the shiat out of a "50 States Initiative" mmo, especially if it leaned more towards the fps/twitch gameplay.

That said, I'm probably not going to be thrilled for an MMO until they make something based on Blame!.
 
2012-09-01 07:15:02 PM  

HeartBurnKid: If they needed to shut down CoH (which I don't think they did, since... well... it's the only one of their MMOs that actually has mainstream traction, and even if they didn't want to run it anymore, they probably could have licensed it all out to someone else), probably a better way to handle it would have been to announce it in advance and have the devs ramp up one last, big story event to really take it out with a bang. Not lay off the devs and tell the players, "We're closing shop at the end of the year, try not to let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."

What I'm saying is that, if they're going to end the game, the least they could do is give it a proper ending.



A big fat THIS.

If players are pissed off, it's because they care. People enjoy these games and have invested time, money and emotion into it. Make them feel like they'll be rewarded for having done so instead of disposing of something they love like it's trash.
 
2012-09-01 07:23:21 PM  

Vaneshi: BokChoy: The subscription model used from the late nineties has fallen by the wayside, along with the derelicts of many traditional MMOs that had big promise but ultimately failed.

In the boardroom of any company making an MMO their is a chant from the boardroom "Gotta beat WoW, Gotta beat WoW, no matter what we gotta beat WoW!" a month after release this changes to "Have we beat Wow? Have we beat WoW?" then becomes "Where's our 12 million subscribers and $2 billion?" this is usually followed by "We didn't beat WoW, kill it." it may well take a while for the board members to do this but it's almost always the reason why.

Fundamentally there is nothing really wrong with the subscription model for an MMO, however people are exceptionally unlikely to pay subscriptions to two games which are mechanically similar to each other. But different genres and mechanics? Potentially yes. Plenty of people have active subscriptions of say WoW and EVE:Online, two exceptionally different games.

That doesn't mean every MMO has to be subscription based nor does every MMO need to be F2P with cash shop... it depends what your MMO is bringing to the table; if it's a niche product then it may well do better with a sub than it would F2P... if it's (and I mean honestly not how it's marketed) just a reskin of something... popular... F2P is probably best.

And as TOR demonstrates... not every game should be an MMO (subscription or F2P) to begin with, sometimes you should just sell it for £50 on Steam and put out expansion packs every so often.


The DCUO Model?

(Except for Free w/Expansion packs)
 
2012-09-01 07:40:09 PM  
This is depressing. Had a level 50 fire blaster named Sunflash and was there the night City of Villains came online. Had a fire corrupter named Charmblaze. I was semi-famous on the server back in the day when CoV came out, killing Villains in the pvp areas. I'm going to miss that damn game. Some of my bast mmo fun came from that game.
 
2012-09-01 08:08:42 PM  

TheZorker: The DCUO Model?


No, I meant not actually make your game an MMO of any description. Multiplayer? Maybe, possibly but not an MMO with all the back-end baggage that necessitates.

i.e. A 'regular' video game.
 
2012-09-01 08:10:32 PM  

Codenamechaz: From what I understand, apparently Aion's transition to F2P bombed heavily, and that game had already been bleeding NCSoft. But because they're unwilling to give it up, Paragon is taking the fall.


I never got in to Aion, the controls seemed very clunky when I tried it in F2P so I was just irritated with it while playing. Lineage II took a hit going in to F2P, before the release of WoW it was a very tough game to get ahead in unless you bought adena (the currency) or were the guild leader in a guild that owned one of the few castles. After WoW released they started losing players and kept doing all sorts of crazy things to try and get people to stay. Making exp gain easier or in some cases multiplied, they started upping drop rates putting NPC buffers in town and everything else. Now that it is F2P they took it to a whole new level and made weapon/armor upgrades nearly free at the merchants and made direct lines to follow for quest routes, you didn't have to explore on your own to find where your quest needed to take you.

HeartBurnKid: What I'm saying is that, if they're going to end the game, the least they could do is give it a proper ending.


Are there any MMOs that have a proper ending? I've played my fair share and it comes to somewhat of an open ended end, then a little ways down the road there is an expansion and another, etc. I don't know, I've never really felt like an end needed to be there in MMOs since the games are usually gear based and those items are gained from mundane grinding or more recently by micro transactions.

I guess if they really wanted to get the gaming community and comic/super hero fanatics to eat them up more then they should have been developing a sandbox developer for the users to take the world further. (think Second Life) They wouldn't need Paragon to develop content anymore but at the same time they would probably have Marvel knocking on their door with a lawsuit again if the users started recreating published comic book stories.

"Both NCsoft and Paragon Studios are incredibly proud of the success of City of Heroes, but unfortunately, the continued support of the franchise no longer fits within our long term goals for the company," said Lincoln Davis, NCsoft West director of corporate communications.

Guild Wars is their baby and Guild Wars 2 will likely be the same. Hell, at least they had the sense to take down online cdkey purchasing for now while their beef up server infrastructure considering over a million copies were sold before launch. It saves them from the shiatstorm that Blizz faced during the first couple weeks of the D3 launch.
 
2012-09-01 08:40:30 PM  
My favorite part of the game was costume creation. Sadly the missions and game were just too repetitive to hold my interest. I checked out CoV when it came out. Didn't hold my interest.

Nice little game, I enjoyed it more than many MMOs that have come through the pipe. They had some really great ideas, and perhaps had it come out when only EQ was competition it would have done a little better and evolved. Maybe.

/Vendor Buy Bank Guards
 
2012-09-01 09:03:50 PM  
I thought CoH was one of the most innovative MMORPGs. I really liked character creation and the power system.
 
2012-09-01 09:12:50 PM  
And as Harley did with Buell so NCSoft is doing with Paragon. Instead of just spinning them off to be independent entities that have to fend for themselves they're shutting them down. In both cases while money is mentioned, it's not really about money.
 
2012-09-01 09:21:16 PM  
Well, that sucks. I've played off and on for years and while I'm taking a break right now, I had planned to get back into it soon.

I haz a sad now
 
2012-09-01 09:32:01 PM  

WhyteRaven74: And as Harley did with Buell so NCSoft is doing with Paragon. Instead of just spinning them off to be independent entities that have to fend for themselves they're shutting them down. In both cases while money is mentioned, it's not really about money.


Why should they spin Paragon off as an independent? NCsoft and Cryptic Studios (the developer of CoH) shared a 50/50 split in IP ownership of CoH until NCsoft bought out the IP and obtained 100% ownership. On that note they opened up NCsoft NorCal which was later rebranded as Paragon Studios. Paragon did nothing but turn tricks for NCsoft and add more content to the world.
 
2012-09-01 10:11:07 PM  

Tenatra: Why should they spin Paragon off as an independent?


Give them a chance to keep running CoH and keep working on it without having any financial stake it in it.
 
2012-09-01 10:11:20 PM  
Here's a question, you bought the game, played it, now the developer is shutting the entire world down. Can you still play this as a none on-line game? If not, shouldn't you be able to return the game seeing as how the developer decided to break it for you?
 
2012-09-01 10:16:49 PM  

hobbes0022: Here's a question, you bought the game, played it, now the developer is shutting the entire world down. Can you still play this as a none on-line game? If not, shouldn't you be able to return the game seeing as how the developer decided to break it for you?


You can't play it offline. There are people who want to start up private servers, but I doubt that will happen.
 
2012-09-01 10:27:15 PM  

AnEvilGuest: bingo the psych-o: NetOwl: Sunset isnot a verb, article writer.

If you can word it you can verb it.

I plan to memory that rule.


The evolution of language is inevitable. Perfectly cromulent.
 
2012-09-01 11:10:42 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Give them a chance to keep running CoH and keep working on it without having any financial stake it in it.


And give up the market share they have in a very unique title? Nexon would likely snatch them up in a heartbeat, they still have a high interest in F2P games. If I was NCsoft, I'd have ArenaNet mod the GW/2 engine for a CoH-esque world then develop the world (or use the assets from CoH) then all that is left is the story. NCsoft is doing good in the Action RPG niche even with all the noise from other seemingly similar titles that follow the same time frame, weapons, etc. I wonder how successful they would be in bringing CoH over into an Action platform.
 
2012-09-01 11:50:34 PM  
This was my first MMO, and the best. I'll miss it.

I'll regret that I never got Defenestration Lass to 50. Was very close, and level capped other characters, but never her. 

Why have no other MMOs out since CoH actually picked up on some of the things that made it unique? Are they really not that wanted? Sidekicking, I'm looking at you...
 
2012-09-02 12:09:15 AM  

I Like Bread: cirby: I hope this is the death knell for the "free to play" and "freemium" games trend.

They're never free - they just move the expense from one not-very-large monthly fee to a whole bunch of small fees (for everything from new costumes to auction house access). It might, if you're careful, cost slightly less per month, but overall the expense + annoyance is worse.

Is it that difficult to keep your wallet closed?
I've been enjoying "freemium" games for a while now. Dropped a few hundred hours (and not a single dime) into Battlefield P4F, Tribes, Star Trek Online, Battleground Europe and Everquest.


I've been back in STO for a while ago, and I've been surprised and pleased with how generous they are to Silver accounts.

/Felt like crying when I heard the news. So long, old friend.
 
2012-09-02 01:06:28 AM  
Grim Gentleman, Blu-Blocker, the Great Phantasmo, et al. I will miss you guys.
 
2012-09-02 01:14:33 AM  
members.iglou.com

Goodnight dummyman.
 
2012-09-02 01:17:56 AM  
I'm surprised in a good way that this one made it to over 90 comments. City of Heroes has been my game of choice the past couple years, seeing everything drop on Friday was about as close to a kick to the balls as I've felt since I last lost a job.

Playing Guild Wars 2 showed just how dated even the newer graphics and mechanics were on City, but there was still a heck of a lot that they were still getting right. 'll miss the community, I'll miss the roleplay, I'll miss the character creation, and I'll miss jumping in like a crazy man in a spawn of a couple dozen bad guys. There isn't an MMO out there that's quite captured that feel.
 
2012-09-02 01:19:21 AM  
Forget signing online petitions, that means nothing to these guys. They only understand one language: dollars.

Start a kickstarter to buy the code/rights and retain the developing team as part of an independent float.

Seriously, some guys just got $8.6m to develop a new console game through kickstarter, surely the fanbois of this game can pony up enough to get PWs attention.
 
2012-09-02 01:34:08 AM  
It was a fun game for a while. But when I got three doorway missions from three separate contacts, for the exact same MOb to kill and had to repeat the mission 3x to close each of them out... Well, that's when I called it quits.

Best of luck to all the Paragon folks at all levels, from their social media folks to the management team.

/salute
 
2012-09-02 01:39:00 AM  

I eat mop: Forget signing online petitions, that means nothing to these guys. They only understand one language: dollars.

Start a kickstarter to buy the code/rights and retain the developing team as part of an independent float.

Seriously, some guys just got $8.6m to develop a new console game through kickstarter, surely the fanbois of this game can pony up enough to get PWs attention.


Damn, what I would give for someone to actually get System Shock 3 in the works or a Freelancer sequel ...
 
2012-09-02 01:40:02 AM  

Dimensio: [members.iglou.com image 737x548]

Goodnight dummyman.


Thank you for brightening my dreary day. I needed a good laugh after this news.
 
DYI
2012-09-02 01:40:24 AM  
Ah, the days of herding wolves and freakshows into dumpsters. Perma MoG Regen Scrappers. Nemesis plots. The ability, with the release of CoV to be able to kill that lying POS Statesman. 12 Hour Task Forces that were even longer if you didn't have someone to teleport the people that couldn't use the Jump points.

Positron Task Forces, Hamidon Raids, Rikti invasions....

I'm gonna miss you Guardian Server.
 
2012-09-02 02:09:42 AM  
This has been a busy day for me, cataloguing characters and getting them to appropriate 'milestones' where I can before putting them away. There are no few of them - I've played since launch, minus an 18 month hiatus. I had only planned on coming back for a few month, but then this happened.

I'm not upset, really. It's fine that things end. The end-of-the-month abruptness of the news is just NCSoft being their usual retarded selves. Likely they've just had a couple of back-to-back flops and, with typical corporate logic, have cut a product that was actually profitable. Bit happens, all that.

One thing, if anyone's thinking of riding the apocalypse train for however long it lasts - the early-game experience (in Atlas Park, at least) is really improved. It's really really good! I didn't realize. There are lots of tight, compelling little arcs that introduce the world and the game, compelling characters, and no few in-jokes.

Anyway, I'm not sad. I just hope to have a little time left.

Also, if everyone could stop clogging LFG with speculation, links to petitions, grand plans for private servers, and abject whinging, it would be nice. Denial is the first stage and all, but let me enjoy however much time remains.
 
2012-09-02 02:21:41 AM  

Jurodan: This was actually my first MMORPG, and the only time I remember someone getting completely chewed out because they acted like tools by people who did not know me. My favorite moment playing a MMORPG.

"Dude, you should have been able to keep me up! What the hell are you doing?"
*As I start to say "I'm sorry."*
"Screw you! He kept the rest of us up just fine."
"Yeah, you ran to your own death, fool."
"Idiot. He's the best healer I've had since I've started this game."

/I was playing a healer with as few combat abilities as possible, I even used the pathetic little radius heal.
//I took my second attack ability at level 20 on sufferance, as I recall... I had all the heals already.
///A good healer is worth his weight in gold, so is a good tank, even excellent strikers are a dime a dozen.


I'm going to have reflexive reactions to the word 'healer' for some time, I can tell.

First level 50 was an Empathy/Electrical Blast Defender. Solo'd well into single origins, back before you could adjust your mission difficulty.
If you have both auras, Fort, and AB up and you manage to die, it's your fault. Pop a wakie; I'm up next to the tank punching space Nazis in the face. 

I'll be nice and Clear Mind you after you get up, but really - don't go and do whatever you did again. The pain train doesn't slow down just for you.
I'm still convinced the most horrifying team in the game would be 8 Fire/Emp controllers.
 
2012-09-02 02:28:06 AM  

Dog Welder: Jurodan: This was actually my first MMORPG, and the only time I remember someone getting completely chewed out because they acted like tools by people who did not know me. My favorite moment playing a MMORPG.

"Dude, you should have been able to keep me up! What the hell are you doing?"
*As I start to say "I'm sorry."*
"Screw you! He kept the rest of us up just fine."
"Yeah, you ran to your own death, fool."
"Idiot. He's the best healer I've had since I've started this game."

/I was playing a healer with as few combat abilities as possible, I even used the pathetic little radius heal.
//I took my second attack ability at level 20 on sufferance, as I recall... I had all the heals already.
///A good healer is worth his weight in gold, so is a good tank, even excellent strikers are a dime a dozen.

That was actually one of the beautiful things about where the game ended up though...you didn't NEED a healer in a group. I can remember running blaster-only task forces and rocking the world of everything that got thrown in front of us.

There were plenty of support power sets that didn't have any healing abilities in them, and they were all effective.


This was the first game that really broke the MMO tank/spank/heal trinity. Just utterly sundered it. For one thing, buffs and especially debuffs were not just a little but much more useful than heals. A good /rad (or maybe a /traps) made the team an AV killer. And made a good team a Giant Monster killer.

Used to solo GM's on my Ill/Rad for kicks. Downed Lusca, even, but it was a slog.
And already I'm using the past tense. Damn and blast.
 
2012-09-02 02:39:40 AM  

I eat mop: Forget signing online petitions, that means nothing to these guys. They only understand one language: dollars.

Start a kickstarter to buy the code/rights and retain the developing team as part of an independent float.

Seriously, some guys just got $8.6m to develop a new console game through kickstarter, surely the fanbois of this game can pony up enough to get PWs attention.


If you want items/game features to be microtransactioned to hell then you can go that route. Like I said Nexon could simply match any offer +1 on any amount kickstarter would produce if they saw money in it. They just dropped a $685 Million USD investment into NCsoft in June. (for 14.7% of NCsoft stock) and they have made $242.6 Million USD net profit themselves so far this in Q1+Q2, with project profits for Q3 and Q4 much higher. Hey cirby read it and weep, those numbers are from a company that lives on free to play games, there is no death knell for free to play yet.

/Sure they would bring a new player base to the game, likely a lot of Asians, but how much damage are they going to do to bring it to you under their name.
 
2012-09-02 03:14:37 AM  
"Both NCsoft and Paragon Studios are incredibly proud of the success of City of Heroes, but unfortunately, the continued support of the franchise no longer fits within our long term goals for the company," said Lincoln Davis, NCsoft West director of corporate communications.

In other words, because City of Heroes isn't a generically fruity fantasy MMO that appeals to the Korean audience, it gets the axe for GW2 marketing costs and Aion's faceplant F2P transition.
 
2012-09-02 05:15:39 AM  

Drakenul: "Both NCsoft and Paragon Studios are incredibly proud of the success of City of Heroes, but unfortunately, the continued support of the franchise no longer fits within our long term goals for the company," said Lincoln Davis, NCsoft West director of corporate communications.

In other words, because City of Heroes isn't a generically fruity fantasy MMO that appeals to the Korean audience, it gets the axe for GW2 marketing costs and Aion's faceplant F2P transition.


Pretty much, yeah.

/G'bye, Volksemech
//G'bye, Protector server.
///I haz a sad. :(
 
2012-09-02 05:29:46 AM  
On the subject of free servers, not going to happen. Fans have tried to get NC Soft to let them make Tabula Rasa free shards and they have been threatened with litigation every time. Even Richard Garriot when he sued NC Soft for all the TR BS agreed to substantially reduce his damages awarded in exchange for the IP and rights back to TR they said no. NS Soft would rather gut it, burn it and bury it then letting someone else enjoy it if they cant make money on it.
 
2012-09-02 05:40:31 AM  

BloodyRoarX: On the subject of free servers, not going to happen.

-
The servers for CoH are already free. The subscription is only still in place if you want to be a VIP user. ;)
 
2012-09-02 07:46:21 AM  
That game wasn't very good. I mean, making characters was fun, but the gameplay was atrociously pointless and flat. I'm sure the 'end game' was totes fabulous tho.
 
2012-09-02 09:00:52 AM  

I eat mop: Start a kickstarter to buy the code/rights and retain the developing team as part of an independent float.


There are two fan-based initiatives in the works; if there are any fans of the game here that haven't heard about these plans yet, I'd encourage you to take part.

The first is a letter-writing campaign to Valve. If one publisher would be crazy enough to support a still-profitable, but aged, MMO because of the passion of the fanbase, it's Valve.

The second comes from longtime fan community Titan Network. TN's leader, who goes by TonyV, is trying to use the contacts he has to assess options and pick out the plan most likely to succeed. When and if the time comes, he'll let us know where we can go for crowdfunding.

Speaking frankly, neither plan is likely to succeed...but I wouldn't be doing my duty to the community if I didn't try to spread the word.
 
2012-09-02 09:33:41 AM  
Hadn't played in years, but damn this sucks.

I haven't had a feel like this since Earthy & Beyond was unceremoniously shut down so they could use the servers for one the most epic fails ever, The Sims Online.

It should be a crime to close a profitable mmorpg.
 
2012-09-02 10:46:56 AM  

ThePuceGuardian: to solo GM's on my Ill/Rad for kicks. Downed Lusca, even, but it was a slog.
And already I'm using the past tense. Damn and blast.


Came close to building a solo-GM killer myself. Not too terribly long ago, they finally released Dark Control and Dark Miasma for controllers. So farkin' HAX. I got pretty darn close to solo Adamastor, Jurassik, Deathsurge; bastages kept running away because I didn't have a taunt, and they eventually despawned. I got all of Lusca's tentacles down, stalled on the head itself because of personal fatigue (it was 2am, mind you XD).

Fun times.
 
2012-09-02 11:19:40 AM  

Tenatra: Are there any MMOs that have a proper ending? I've played my fair share and it comes to somewhat of an open ended end, then a little ways down the road there is an expansion and another, etc. I don't know, I've never really felt like an end needed to be there in MMOs since the games are usually gear based and those items are gained from mundane grinding or more recently by micro transactions.


Well, The Matrix Online tried to have an event where they had a massive, overwhelming invasion of agents and every single player got dev-level powers to fight them... but it ended up glitching out. That's the only example I can think of off the top of my head.

Tenatra: Guild Wars is their baby and Guild Wars 2 will likely be the same.


Hm. I wasn't aware that Guild Wars was them. I guess I won't be picking up GW2 after all.
 
2012-09-02 09:34:32 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Tenatra: Are there any MMOs that have a proper ending? I've played my fair share and it comes to somewhat of an open ended end, then a little ways down the road there is an expansion and another, etc. I don't know, I've never really felt like an end needed to be there in MMOs since the games are usually gear based and those items are gained from mundane grinding or more recently by micro transactions.

Well, The Matrix Online tried to have an event where they had a massive, overwhelming invasion of agents and every single player got dev-level powers to fight them... but it ended up glitching out. That's the only example I can think of off the top of my head.

Tenatra: Guild Wars is their baby and Guild Wars 2 will likely be the same.

Hm. I wasn't aware that Guild Wars was them. I guess I won't be picking up GW2 after all.


Near as I can tell, GW2 has nothing to do with NCSoft. Also, its amazing. If you like MMOs, you'd be doing yourself a disservice to not check it out. And with no monthly fee, not a lot to lose.
 
2012-09-02 10:15:48 PM  
Wow.

I played for most of the game's run. My first day playing was the day Issue 1 was released.
I took breaks here and there and was gone for quite awhile until I got my new laptop. Then I started playing regularly again.
Then my laptop died back in June.. and now I have another reason to be sad about that:(

/Hunt's_Warfrost*
//Liberty Server
*which name was derived from my clan/character name from the Unreal Tournament days {Hunt's}Warfrost
 
2012-09-02 11:50:54 PM  
Side note, but I've been playing DC Universe Online and am going to quit it. It was a pretty good game, but once you get to level 30 you have to do some painful grinding to improve your gear so that you can actually enjoy some end game content. This grinding consists of replaying missions you've beaten numerous times or get involved in grossly imbalanced PvP battles where you get matched up against people with much better weapons and armour.

The saddest part is that being free to play, I would not mind spending money to buy better gear or the "special currency" needed to purchase said gear. However, the cash shop does not allow this, so the only option is to grind.

Thanks, but no thanks.

/now torn between Everquest 2 (free to play), Guild Wars 2 (buy to play), and World of Warcraft (pay to play)
//will probably go with GW2 in December when I finish my semester
///just sad that there is no integrated voice chat in GW2, and apparently there are no plans to implement it
 
2012-09-03 12:40:10 AM  

MasonL87: Near as I can tell, GW2 has nothing to do with NCSoft. Also, its amazing. If you like MMOs, you'd be doing yourself a disservice to not check it out. And with no monthly fee, not a lot to lose.


HeartBurnKid, like Mason said, don't exclude it just because NCsoft is connected to it. (Unless you really have that big of a grudge against them)

and Mason, ArenaNet wasn't created by NCsoft, it was founded (2000) by 3 people that had important roles in the success of Blizzards first titles in online gaming and battle.net. They wanted to make a top game but didn't have the funds for the resources by themselves. They needed someone with money that could help them create their products, 2 years later they had met with NCsoft and meshed very well. NCsoft acquired them and ArenaNet is now an in house developer working for NCsoft. (2002) Now that they had their funding they didn't have to worry about development costs out of their own pockets and could devote their energy on creating a good game.

The wonderful thing about ArenaNet working for NCsoft is that NCsoft has full confidence in letting O'brien and the rest of the team at Anet create their vision because of their track record and NCsoft feels like O'brien won't lead them down the wrong path. NCsoft doesn't try and cut corners with them, they want the polish. Anet had a product that they wanted to create but didn't have the funds, NCsoft saw them as a sound investment, bought them and funded their project. Win-Win. Fast forward to today -> Guild Wars 1 has sold over 6mil copies but NCsoft was hit by a $6mil loss in 2Q2012 and they are banking on Guild Wars 2 to bring them out of the red in 3Q2012.
 
2012-09-03 01:19:53 AM  

Tenatra: MasonL87: Near as I can tell, GW2 has nothing to do with NCSoft. Also, its amazing. If you like MMOs, you'd be doing yourself a disservice to not check it out. And with no monthly fee, not a lot to lose.

HeartBurnKid, like Mason said, don't exclude it just because NCsoft is connected to it. (Unless you really have that big of a grudge against them)

and Mason, ArenaNet wasn't created by NCsoft, it was founded (2000) by 3 people that had important roles in the success of Blizzards first titles in online gaming and battle.net. They wanted to make a top game but didn't have the funds for the resources by themselves. They needed someone with money that could help them create their products, 2 years later they had met with NCsoft and meshed very well. NCsoft acquired them and ArenaNet is now an in house developer working for NCsoft. (2002) Now that they had their funding they didn't have to worry about development costs out of their own pockets and could devote their energy on creating a good game.

The wonderful thing about ArenaNet working for NCsoft is that NCsoft has full confidence in letting O'brien and the rest of the team at Anet create their vision because of their track record and NCsoft feels like O'brien won't lead them down the wrong path. NCsoft doesn't try and cut corners with them, they want the polish. Anet had a product that they wanted to create but didn't have the funds, NCsoft saw them as a sound investment, bought them and funded their project. Win-Win. Fast forward to today -> Guild Wars 1 has sold over 6mil copies but NCsoft was hit by a $6mil loss in 2Q2012 and they are banking on Guild Wars 2 to bring them out of the red in 3Q2012.


Ah, OK. I was confused, as every time I boot up GW2 the NCSoft logo isn't ANYWHERE on the launcher or anything. I wasn't aware of their history, but its a damn good thing that NC will just leave ANet to their own devices, because it paid off. Big-Time!
 
2012-09-03 04:36:40 AM  
CoH was fun. Really fun, in a way WOW can never be.

I play WoW now, but Wow is built for the losers who play 12 hours a day and gain such intimate familiarity with the intricacies of the game that they rape you in PvP and biatch at you for being 8 percent low in DPS from their build.

The people who play WoW to that degree are everywhere and they're complete dicks to other people. I miss CoH, because that crap never was tolerated in the culture of that game (on my server at least), whereas on Wow, it's dick city.
 
2012-09-03 10:13:17 AM  

bingo the psych-o: NetOwl: Sunset isnot a verb, article writer.

If you can word it you can verb it.


descriptionism ftw!
 
2012-09-03 10:14:48 AM  

cirby: I hope this is the death knell for the "free to play" and "freemium" games trend.

They're never free - they just move the expense from one not-very-large monthly fee to a whole bunch of small fees (for everything from new costumes to auction house access). It might, if you're careful, cost slightly less per month, but overall the expense + annoyance is worse.


UBIsoft is apparently thinking about moving all their games to that model, so I doubt it.
 
2012-09-03 11:07:09 PM  
The trouble with this game, and the reason it began to die, is that it didn't DO anything. It built up exactly what it had at the start, with a few token additions(i.e. removing the intense focus on player-group "Supergroups" and the salvage used to build in said groups in favor of salvage-based Recipes), but in the end, you were still hammering the same button combinations in the same "Office Building"s with low resolution walls in the same low resolution costumes. The cinematics were oftentimes either far too overdone in rare cases, or far too UNDERdone, and it was always hard to feel like what you were doing had any real impact on the world you were going through. A few epic story arcs existed, but the point is, they existed instantly for Everyone in such a way that they really detracted from the gameplay element of things. Sure, you came in from Praetoria, sure, you supported the rebellious underground and joined the side of "Good", but at the end of the day, you still got all the same missions in a rather boring element of repetition. Efforts to add new mission arcs fell flat on their face when NC decided to really devalue the Architect system, and efforts to "pretty" up certain areas oftentimes took far longer than they really should have given the way certain spaces were laid out. All in all, the game felt all too static.

In comparison, WoW changed a large portion of the game areas in a recent expansion, giving not only the appearance of change, but the STORY of change, complete with player-contributed story arc changes throughout, as well as phasal instance based map alterations that gave you the impression that you were actually making a difference in your current questline.

Couple that with NCSoft's completely botched Free-to-Play launch(I BOUGHT city of villains, why am I being restricted from using my Masterminds now unless I buy them a second time?!), and you have what was a good concept in its most basic form, turned into a marketing mess(WHAT marketing?!) combined with a series of incredibly bad business decisions.

As of now, we will simply have to satisfy ourselves with Champions Online(Which suffers from nonlinear area troubles), or DCUO, but we will be fraught with troubles in either case, as both games feel... Cartoony. Something about the graphic system makes both of these replacements feel a little bit TOO chunky around the edges, and not in the whole "This is old" way, but in the "This is pretentious" method.
 
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