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(Daily Finance)   Good news for all you Charles Dickens fans out there: Debtors' prisons are making a comeback   (dailyfinance.com) divider line 149
    More: Sad, state Attorney General Lisa Madigan, debt settlement, court heard, payday loans, predatory lending, Dickens, debtors, St. Louis Post-Dispatch  
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12834 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Aug 2012 at 2:39 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-31 12:12:50 PM
In one case she cited, an Illinois court brought a "pay or appear" order against a mentally disabled man living on legally protected disability benefits of $690 a month.

Disability of $690 a month????? THIS IS AN OUTRAGE

690x12= 8280 A YEAR of our hardearned tax dollar being wasted on this freeloader.

Why not just get them to wear a black triangle and start up a T-4 program?
 
2012-08-31 12:13:06 PM
Debt is a civil matter.

There should be no penalty for not showing up in court for a civil matter! If the judgement is in default for the creditor, so be it. Now continue your useless collection actions. But in NO WAY should a person be legally obligated to show up in court for a CIVIL matter.
 
2012-08-31 12:16:03 PM
It's their own fault for not buying more money.
 
2012-08-31 12:20:49 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: Disability of $690 a month?????


Some people REALLY think this. And those people call themselves "ChristiansTM"

Meanwhile, Mitt gets a $76k deduction for a farking dressage horse. 

This disabled guy should've just borrowed money from his parents.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-08-31 12:42:03 PM
Why not just bring back Debt Bondage

I bet I could get some Koch money if I ran for congress on that issue.
 
2012-08-31 12:47:34 PM

TenaciousP: Meanwhile, Mitt gets a $76k deduction for a farking dressage horse.


Wait, WHAT?

Under what aspect of the tax code did he deduct for a horse?

/off to the googles
 
2012-08-31 12:54:10 PM
I don't know why this surprises anyone. It's always been a crime to be poor. Not to mention you must be a person of poor character, amirite?
 
2012-08-31 01:06:44 PM
I wonder how long it'll take for some asshole to come in and say, "Well, they shouldn't have borrowed money that they couldn't pay back!" or something along those lines.
 
2012-08-31 01:25:27 PM

SecretAgentWoman: There should be no penalty for not showing up in court for a civil matter!


So, hypothetically speaking, if you enter into a contract with someone, a civil matter, send them a summons, and they don't show up, they should face no consequences?
 
2012-08-31 01:26:26 PM
Wow.

I used to be a bill collector. I am not anymore. It was awful.

If we even hinted that the debtor could end up in jail, we were fired. Even for bad checks, where they really could. I assume this is all the rage amongst typical despicable collection techniques in these states now.

Just... wow.

Creditors need to write into their loan percentages these loss percentages and eat it, not force society to pay for jail time. This is insane.

It's a civil matter. I'm flabbergasted.
 
2012-08-31 01:27:53 PM

SecretAgentWoman: Debt is a civil matter.

There should be no penalty for not showing up in court for a civil matter! If the judgement is in default for the creditor, so be it. Now continue your useless collection actions. But in NO WAY should a person be legally obligated to show up in court for a CIVIL matter.


Not everyone who fails to pay back debts is unable to pay. Often, they simply refuse to pay until they are figuratively held upside down and shaken until the cash falls out. I've dealt with a lot of defendants who do this, some of them very well off.

Unless you can compel them to appear in court and account for their assets, how is a creditor supposed to collect from a deadbeat who just doesn't want to pay what he legally owes?
 
2012-08-31 01:30:42 PM

Shostie: SecretAgentWoman: There should be no penalty for not showing up in court for a civil matter!

So, hypothetically speaking, if you enter into a contract with someone, a civil matter, send them a summons, and they don't show up, they should face no consequences?


Sorry, let me revise this and add to the hypothetical that the contract was broken.

Sorry, again.
 
2012-08-31 01:40:15 PM

gilgigamesh: Unless you can compel them to appear in court and account for their assets, how is a creditor supposed to collect from a deadbeat who just doesn't want to pay what he legally owes?


yah - I keep thinking about all those loans that bane capital took and never repaid.
 
2012-08-31 01:45:03 PM

vpb: Why not just bring back Debt Bondage? 


Giggity?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-08-31 01:50:16 PM

Kimothy: I don't know why this surprises anyone. It's always been a crime to be poor. Not to mention you must be a person of poor character, amirite?


Otherwise God would have given you money. Actually the protestant work ethic that you are always hearing about does teach that hard work and frugality is a sign of God's grace, so being poor = being a hell bound sinner.
 
2012-08-31 01:57:37 PM
First, explains St. Louis Post-Dispatch, the creditor gets a judgment in civil court that a debtor hasn't paid a sum that he owes. Then, the debtor is summoned to court for an "examination": a review of their financial assets.

1. You borrowed money for a payday lender (probably at 300% interest or more)
2. You didn't pay the loan back
3. The lender took you to court because you didn't pay.
4. You were summoned to court. You didn't show up.

I have no love for payday lenders, but I also am having a hard time feeling sorry for people in jail who didn't pay back their loans and ignored a court summons.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-08-31 01:58:51 PM

dramboxf: TenaciousP: Meanwhile, Mitt gets a $76k deduction for a farking dressage horse.

Wait, WHAT?

Under what aspect of the tax code did he deduct for a horse?


Rafalca is a business.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-08-31 02:03:44 PM

vernonFL: First, explains St. Louis Post-Dispatch, the creditor gets a judgment in civil court that a debtor hasn't paid a sum that he owes. Then, the debtor is summoned to court for an "examination": a review of their financial assets.

1. You borrowed money for a payday lender (probably at 300% interest or more)
2. You didn't pay the loan back
3. The lender took you to court because you didn't pay.
4. You were summoned to court. You didn't show up.

I have no love for payday lenders, but I also am having a hard time feeling sorry for people in jail who didn't pay back their loans and ignored a court summons.


If you RTFA, the court appearances are using used as an excuse to use the justice system to take money they can't legally take. Requiring someone to turn up in court once every month for three years is an abuse of position by a judge.
 
2012-08-31 02:06:32 PM

vpb: Requiring someone to turn up in court once every month for three years is an abuse of position by a judge.


What?! Okay, yeah, maybe I better RTFA all the way through.
 
2012-08-31 02:09:51 PM
Checks crystal ball.

I foresee in the near future a rash of Professional Debt Collectors being mysteriously killed, preferably in most horrific ways. The cops will not have the time to fully investigate such incidents.

I see a rise in the sale of ammunition in Debtor Prison states and suggest you buy stock in the companies.
 
2012-08-31 02:18:59 PM
No coincidence, the bond is usually set at the amount of the original debt.

I was sort of "meh" until I got to ^
 
2012-08-31 02:23:09 PM

dramboxf: TenaciousP: Meanwhile, Mitt gets a $76k deduction for a farking dressage horse.

Wait, WHAT?

Under what aspect of the tax code did he deduct for a horse?

/off to the googles


Tangentially... HOW HAD YOU NOT HEARD OF THIS STORY YET? :-| just curious
 
2012-08-31 02:34:08 PM

Rik01: Checks crystal ball.

I foresee in the near future a rash of Professional Debt Collectors being mysteriously killed, preferably in most horrific ways. The cops will not have the time to fully investigate such incidents.

I see a rise in the sale of ammunition in Debtor Prison states and suggest you buy stock in the companies.


The last law firm I worked for was a collections firm. I got to do all the court appearances. I used to joke that it was a "bad week" if I didn't make someone cry in court.

I had very few "bad weeks." I had few "bad days."

I managed to get out with a few remnants of my self-respect intact.
 
2012-08-31 02:44:28 PM
My dear Copperfield... In short, I am ruined.
 
2012-08-31 02:44:31 PM
Not a criminal, you will be before it's all said and done.
 
2012-08-31 02:45:20 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: In one case she cited, an Illinois court brought a "pay or appear" order against a mentally disabled man living on legally protected disability benefits of $690 a month.

Disability of $690 a month????? THIS IS AN OUTRAGE

690x12= 8280 A YEAR of our hardearned tax dollar being wasted on this freeloader.

Why not just get them to wear a black triangle and start up a T-4 program?


I know you're joking, but I guarantee that someone has already read your post and shook their head in agreement. I'd be willing to bet that person goes to church every week and listens to sermons about the teachings of Christ.
 
2012-08-31 02:45:49 PM
Sweet. Next I want to see a return of Stocks/Pillary for people who hog the left lane

Dunking chairs for muggers, etc.

Floggers for vandalists, etc.
 
2012-08-31 02:46:03 PM
Where are the usual douchetards white knighting for the collection companies?
 
2012-08-31 02:46:17 PM
This has been going on for a while now.
It's a good place to pick up broads, bail them out for the weekend, party hard and return them Monday,
wink wink nod nod.
 
2012-08-31 02:46:45 PM

SecretAgentWoman: Debt is a civil matter.

There should be no penalty for not showing up in court for a civil matter! If the judgement is in default for the creditor, so be it. Now continue your useless collection actions. But in NO WAY should a person be legally obligated to show up in court for a CIVIL matter.


A lady, in my opinion, should be of a civil nature, Madam. Heretofore, you shall be known as Mrs. Macabre.
 
2012-08-31 02:47:27 PM
Now that's progressive
 
2012-08-31 02:47:30 PM
I'm ok with this.
 
2012-08-31 02:48:03 PM
Thank you sir! May I have another?
 
2012-08-31 02:49:55 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Because People in power are Stupid: In one case she cited, an Illinois court brought a "pay or appear" order against a mentally disabled man living on legally protected disability benefits of $690 a month.

Disability of $690 a month????? THIS IS AN OUTRAGE

690x12= 8280 A YEAR of our hardearned tax dollar being wasted on this freeloader.

Why not just get them to wear a black triangle and start up a T-4 program?

I know you're joking, but I guarantee that someone has already read your post and shook their head in agreement. I'd be willing to bet that person goes to church every week and listens to sermons about the teachings of Christ.


If you're not a sinner, Jesus will help you to prosper. The Lord wants you to be happy wealthy (so you can make big donations to the church and help Reverend Mammon bring the gospel to the heathens by flying to them in his private jet).

This fellow sounds poor. He must be a sinner. Probably has the ghey or is an atheist or voted for Obama.
 
2012-08-31 02:50:47 PM
So the State now PAYS to imprision people who owe money to the private sector?
it costs a lot for police, lawyers, judges, prisons, guards, food and housing of prisoners
wouldn't it be more cost effective to just pay off the credit company directly?
wouldn't it be way more farking less expencive to regulate usery? have a maximum intrest rate?

seems that these payday loan people are just scam artists, and a fine art indeed.
 
2012-08-31 02:51:03 PM
Walking out on your debts is for The Elite, like, oh, Donald Trump. You proles better pay up.
 
2012-08-31 02:51:33 PM

give me doughnuts: Rik01: Checks crystal ball.

I foresee in the near future a rash of Professional Debt Collectors being mysteriously killed, preferably in most horrific ways. The cops will not have the time to fully investigate such incidents.

I see a rise in the sale of ammunition in Debtor Prison states and suggest you buy stock in the companies.

The last law firm I worked for was a collections firm. I got to do all the court appearances. I used to joke that it was a "bad week" if I didn't make someone cry in court.

I had very few "bad weeks." I had few "bad days."

I managed to get out with a few remnants of my self-respect intact.


Then you were a douche bag.

I am currently a debt collector/ lawyer and I go to court every single day. I cannot remember the last time I made someone cry.

Ordering them to come back to court every month unless they pay is crazy. The judge ought to be removed from the bench for that.

On the other hand people making $20/hr and working 40 hrs a week who say they cannot pay ANYTHING toward their debt.... Well I just garnish 25% of their pay so....
 
2012-08-31 02:51:45 PM
Meanwhile, in California, small-claims courts are being closed down because we can't afford to handle the backlog of criminal cases in a timely fashion. While we waste time and money going after debtors who are essentially judgement-proof (as in this case), other valid cases have to go to mediation because there is no judge to hear the case.

Isn't the War Against Poverty fun?
 
2012-08-31 02:52:25 PM
Joe Biden was right when he talked about chains.
 
2012-08-31 02:54:10 PM
Leader of Senate: All fellow members of the Roman senate hear me. Shall we continue to build palace after palace for the rich? Or shall we aspire to a more noble purpose and build decent housing for the poor? How does the senate vote?

Entire Senate: fark THE POOR!
 
2012-08-31 02:54:48 PM

david_gaithersburg: I'm ok with this.


That's either because you're mentally handicapped or a troll. Either way, there are very real and serious reasons that this was outlawed and bringing it back is NOT a good thing.
 
2012-08-31 02:55:22 PM

vernonFL: vpb: Requiring someone to turn up in court once every month for three years is an abuse of position by a judge.

What?! Okay, yeah, maybe I better RTFA all the way through.


Don't forget to pay more attention to the parts about the fact that it's disability, which the courts are legally not allowed to touch, and that he's mentally disabled.

All it takes is a bit more publicity on that one judgement itself to basically ensure the judge is retired, forever.
 
2012-08-31 02:56:37 PM

madgordy: So the State now PAYS to imprision people who owe money to the private sector?
it costs a lot for police, lawyers, judges, prisons, guards, food and housing of prisoners
wouldn't it be more cost effective to just pay off the credit company directly?
wouldn't it be way more farking less expencive to regulate usery? have a maximum intrest rate?

seems that these payday loan people are just scam artists, and a fine art indeed.


Lets not forget a lot of states have privatized prisons so there is a profit motive in a lot of cases to house more criminals.
 
2012-08-31 02:59:23 PM

mytdawg: madgordy: So the State now PAYS to imprision people who owe money to the private sector?
it costs a lot for police, lawyers, judges, prisons, guards, food and housing of prisoners
wouldn't it be more cost effective to just pay off the credit company directly?
wouldn't it be way more farking less expencive to regulate usery? have a maximum intrest rate?

seems that these payday loan people are just scam artists, and a fine art indeed.

Lets not forget a lot of states have privatized prisons so there is a profit motive in a lot of cases to house more criminals.


I wonder how many people who own collections also have a stake in privatized prisons. It wouldn't shock me to be relatively high.
 
2012-08-31 02:59:56 PM
Good news for all you "Cracked" fans: AOL separates their articles into FIVE pages instead of at least two...
 
2012-08-31 03:01:29 PM
We have it body attachments in Indiana, but I believe they are only used for deadbeat dads. Seems a little harsh to allow payday loan vampires this option.
 
2012-08-31 03:01:32 PM

gilgigamesh: SecretAgentWoman: Debt is a civil matter.

There should be no penalty for not showing up in court for a civil matter! If the judgement is in default for the creditor, so be it. Now continue your useless collection actions. But in NO WAY should a person be legally obligated to show up in court for a CIVIL matter.

Not everyone who fails to pay back debts is unable to pay. Often, they simply refuse to pay until they are figuratively held upside down and shaken until the cash falls out. I've dealt with a lot of defendants who do this, some of them very well off.

Unless you can compel them to appear in court and account for their assets, how is a creditor supposed to collect from a deadbeat who just doesn't want to pay what he legally owes?


Agreed. People aren't ending up in jail for not paying their debts. They are ending up in jail for refusing to appear under oath discussing their assets.

It can be abused but it's not inherently unreasonable.
 
2012-08-31 03:01:55 PM
I'll serve no time in jail - I have six Guernsey wives and magic underwear...and I'm a Mormon.
 
2012-08-31 03:02:09 PM
Of course the state will pass a bill "to protect vulnerable consumers from being hauled to jail over unpaid debts." Prisoners only earn around 15¢ per hour which doesn't add up to very much state income tax, now does it?
 
2012-08-31 03:02:19 PM

Shostie: SecretAgentWoman: There should be no penalty for not showing up in court for a civil matter!

So, hypothetically speaking, if you enter into a contract with someone, a civil matter, send them a summons, and they don't show up, they should face no consequences?


They do face consequences. It's a default judgment. They lose and you win.
 
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