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(The New York Times)   An old crackpot claims the NSA is subverting the Constitution by recording everything Americans do electronically. Fark: he designed the NSA's program to let them record everything the rest of the world does electronically   (nytimes.com) divider line 86
    More: Scary, NSA, Americans, Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, intelligence gathering, United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, foreign intelligence, United States government, domestic spying  
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1992 clicks; posted to Politics » on 31 Aug 2012 at 12:24 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-31 11:57:35 AM  

So, "Global Clarity" is really named "Stellar Wind"?

images.wikia.com
 
2012-08-31 12:06:00 PM  
Obvious tag being held for questioning?
 
2012-08-31 12:10:36 PM  
You don't think Carnivore just went away, do you?

**NOTE TO NSA GUY MONITORING ME**

I hope you enjoy my Fark posts. Now, as far as my predilection for collecting asian tranny midget porn, well, please know that I'm only doing that as part of a research project. I was surprised to find that there are tens of thousands of images available on that subject. Who knew?

Thank you.
 
2012-08-31 12:10:45 PM  
I, for one, love the NSA and think every single thing they do is awesome and wonderful.


/is that enough to keep them off my butt? I hope so
 
2012-08-31 12:15:56 PM  

mr_bunny: I, for one, love the NSA and think every single thing they do is awesome and wonderful.


/is that enough to keep them off my butt? I hope so


They're gonna compare it to all of the posts in the comment sections where you post, then against your bank transactions and everything you buy, all the places you show up on camera in, then against the postings of everyone you communicate with electronically, and then they'll trust you.
 
2012-08-31 12:18:01 PM  

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: mr_bunny: I, for one, love the NSA and think every single thing they do is awesome and wonderful.


/is that enough to keep them off my butt? I hope so

They're gonna compare it to all of the posts in the comment sections where you post, then against your bank transactions and everything you buy, all the places you show up on camera in, then against the postings of everyone you communicate with electronically, and then they'll trust you.


Sounds pretty fair.

/see guys, I love you, and America and the children. and I hate the terrorists
 
2012-08-31 12:18:20 PM  

abb3w: So, "Global Clarity" is really named "Stellar Wind"?


There it is!
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-08-31 12:26:51 PM  
Meh. I am more worried about how secure they keep the data.

Privacy doesn't really exist anymore. It doesn't matter what laws you have, the technology to watch and record people is just too widespread to control. Everyone else can watch what you do if they really want to, so it doesn't really matter anymore.

Link
 
2012-08-31 12:32:33 PM  
I am curious as to how this would violate the Constitution. It's neither a search nor a seizure, and it doesn't prevent communication.

I think it's generally accepted that the NSA checks emails for keywords. How is this any different?
 
2012-08-31 12:32:39 PM  
Was he one of the guys saying "If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear?"

And if not, what did he think was going to happen?
 
2012-08-31 12:36:06 PM  
You can tell from her writing that the author enjoys being on these watch lists. I think she thinks it makes her seem really important and connected.
 
2012-08-31 12:37:22 PM  

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: mr_bunny: I, for one, love the NSA and think every single thing they do is awesome and wonderful.


/is that enough to keep them off my butt? I hope so

They're gonna compare it to all of the posts in the comment sections where you post, then against your bank transactions and everything you buy, all the places you show up on camera in, then against the postings of everyone you communicate with electronically, and then they'll trust you.


This right here is the only reason I'm not worried about this at the moment.

Go ahead and record god damn near everything. Good like sifting through that pile of shiat to find something on an average citizen that you couldn't find way easier by a chance traffic stop.

Now when they start really focusing on computer aided audiovisual analysis, I'll worry. Prototype "goggles" that used spikes in certain brain activity to index "suspicious" images and sounds have been around for nearly a decade now. And they work. Allowing a person to scan 12 hours of footage in 3 makes a repository like this viable.
 
2012-08-31 12:43:04 PM  
I still remember my .sig file filled with words designed to trip the NSA sensors and ensure they'd waste their time on me. Good times.

/NUCLEAR BOMB PRESIDENT ASSASSINATE WAR ATTACK FNORD
 
2012-08-31 12:43:08 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Was he one of the guys saying "If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear?"

And if not, what did he think was going to happen?


You can think about consequences, or you can get paid.
 
2012-08-31 12:43:09 PM  
The NSA doesn't actually care about anything 99.5% of us are saying or doing.
That's not to say they need to be recording everything we do, just that they almost certainly don't give a sh*t about whatever it is you're up to.
 
2012-08-31 12:43:22 PM  

BeesNuts: Allowing a person to scan 12 hours of footage in 3 makes a repository like this viable.


You'd need to scan 12 hours of footage in 3 milliseconds to make something like this viable as a way to start with the data as your primary government harassment tool. Now I think you'd need to start with a targeted person and then use the data to dig up dirt.
 
2012-08-31 12:43:23 PM  
CSB Sidenote:
A friend of mine was thinking about FBI work for the last 5 years or so. Basically since he finished college. When Binney's testimony hit the warbles in early July he started pissing and moaning about these agencies increasingly looking inward and making him uncomfortable. Saw him a couple weeks back. He's done. Checked out. Stickin' with IT.

I can't imagine he's alone.

/csb

TLDR: I wonder how many prospective agents for the FBI, NSA, CIA, etc find this crap to be a tipping point of sorts.
 
2012-08-31 12:43:51 PM  

rotsky: abb3w: So, "Global Clarity" is really named "Stellar Wind"?

There it is!


i.ytimg.com
 
2012-08-31 12:46:06 PM  
The most insidious thing is that this isn't a startling revelation at all. We don't know the details, but I think at this point, everyone is aware that they are constantly being watched and monitored. It's become the new normal. In fact, people seem to go out of their way to make it easy by putting all their personal information on sites like Facebook.

And if this is the stuff that we know about, what the hell is going on that we don't know about?
 
2012-08-31 12:46:35 PM  

Headso: BeesNuts: Allowing a person to scan 12 hours of footage in 3 makes a repository like this viable.

You'd need to scan 12 hours of footage in 3 milliseconds to make something like this viable as a way to start with the data as your primary government harassment tool. Now I think you'd need to start with a targeted person and then use the data to dig up dirt.


Oh hell yeah. You have the repository. If it's organized at all, you can probably pull up all calls made from time X to time Y and focus there. Or all footage from cameras within 10 miles of Y and focus on that.

I'd assume they already have done work to minimize human involvement in that stage of the game.
 
2012-08-31 12:46:35 PM  

abb3w: So, "Global Clarity" is really named "Stellar Wind"?

[images.wikia.com image 406x400]


I was thinking the same thing

/shame he committed suicide in the finale. He was a great character
//GO CALL YOUR PARENTS SOMETIME! IT'S NOT THAT HARD
 
2012-08-31 12:46:37 PM  

Rev. Skarekroe: The NSA doesn't actually care about anything 99.5% of us are saying or doing.
That's not to say they need to be recording everything we do, just that they almost certainly don't give a sh*t about whatever it is you're up to.


Which is why they're spending so much time and money to track it.
 
2012-08-31 12:48:09 PM  
William Cooper wasn't so crazy after all, huh?

/Behold a Pale Horse
 
2012-08-31 12:48:37 PM  

BeesNuts: CSB Sidenote:
A friend of mine was thinking about FBI work for the last 5 years or so. Basically since he finished college. When Binney's testimony hit the warbles in early July he started pissing and moaning about these agencies increasingly looking inward and making him uncomfortable. Saw him a couple weeks back. He's done. Checked out. Stickin' with IT.

I can't imagine he's alone.

/csb

TLDR: I wonder how many prospective agents for the FBI, NSA, CIA, etc find this crap to be a tipping point of sorts.


I wonder how many a$$holes this is drawing to those agencies just so they can get their jollies off by spying on people
 
2012-08-31 12:48:39 PM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Gyrfalcon: Was he one of the guys saying "If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear?"

And if not, what did he think was going to happen?

You can think about consequences, or you can get paid.


Hm, that must be why I'm so poor...
 
2012-08-31 12:49:35 PM  
mimg.ugo.com
 
2012-08-31 12:51:53 PM  
Not that I'm OK with it at all, but unfortunately there's not going to be much we can do about it besides just not using the internet. If it makes you feel better, nobody is probably ever going to actually look at anything on you unless they have a good reason to specifically look. There's way to much data. I do wonder what is actually stored and for how long...i don't think it would even be possible to store every bit of data that comes across the wires.

Somewhat off topic, but politics is going to be a very different ballgame in a few decades when the social media generation starts running for office and their tweets/wall posts from decades earlier start being dug through.
 
2012-08-31 12:52:18 PM  
but what is his secret stew recipe?
 
2012-08-31 12:55:21 PM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: I am curious as to how this would violate the Constitution. It's neither a search nor a seizure, and it doesn't prevent communication.

I think it's generally accepted that the NSA checks emails for keywords. How is this any different?


Would you be just as OK with them checking your snail mail for certain keywords? You know, just as long as it's not a "seizure" and doesn't prevent communication? How about your text messages? How about the web sites you browse?
 
2012-08-31 12:57:26 PM  

ModernPrimitive01: BeesNuts: CSB Sidenote:
A friend of mine was thinking about FBI work for the last 5 years or so. Basically since he finished college. When Binney's testimony hit the warbles in early July he started pissing and moaning about these agencies increasingly looking inward and making him uncomfortable. Saw him a couple weeks back. He's done. Checked out. Stickin' with IT.

I can't imagine he's alone.

/csb

TLDR: I wonder how many prospective agents for the FBI, NSA, CIA, etc find this crap to be a tipping point of sorts.

I wonder how many a$$holes this is drawing to those agencies just so they can get their jollies off by spying on people


I think it's pretty well known fact that much like with Cops a lot of raging authoritarian meatheads go into the FBI, CIA, NSA, etc so they can exert as much power as they can on anyone at any time. not only that but they tend to have a pretty illogical and irrational level which lets them do all types of wicked shiat and not bat an eye. It is truly amazing just how bad the US government is when they can do so much of this type of stuff and America just sits back and eats another cheeseburger all while they enjoy "america's got talent."
 
2012-08-31 12:58:01 PM  
JIHAD.

/That is all.
 
2012-08-31 12:59:10 PM  

GanjSmokr: The Jami Turman Fan Club: I am curious as to how this would violate the Constitution. It's neither a search nor a seizure, and it doesn't prevent communication.

I think it's generally accepted that the NSA checks emails for keywords. How is this any different?

Would you be just as OK with them checking your snail mail for certain keywords? You know, just as long as it's not a "seizure" and doesn't prevent communication? How about your text messages? How about the web sites you browse?


You think they don't? Not snail mail, but I would be very surprised if there weren't text message and web traffic monitoring for keywords running under the "secret interpretation" of the patriot act that the administration apparently has.
 
2012-08-31 01:03:46 PM  
I've always assumed the government could listen in or monitor anything I did at any time. I've always also assumed that since I'm merely some unimportant random schmuck, no agency would ever care to monitor or follow me, so I figure they probably don't.

Also:
i224.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-31 01:04:09 PM  

birchman: GanjSmokr: The Jami Turman Fan Club: I am curious as to how this would violate the Constitution. It's neither a search nor a seizure, and it doesn't prevent communication.

I think it's generally accepted that the NSA checks emails for keywords. How is this any different?

Would you be just as OK with them checking your snail mail for certain keywords? You know, just as long as it's not a "seizure" and doesn't prevent communication? How about your text messages? How about the web sites you browse?

You think they don't? Not snail mail, but I would be very surprised if there weren't text message and web traffic monitoring for keywords running under the "secret interpretation" of the patriot act that the administration apparently has.


No, I'm one of those crazy consipiacy guys - I'm sure they do. And I don't approve of it. I was just asking if The Jami Turman Fan Club would be OK with it. They seemed to be perfectly fine with the email monitoring.
 
2012-08-31 01:05:27 PM  
SETEC ASTRONOMY
 
2012-08-31 01:09:57 PM  
The US Government doesn't electronically monitor its own citizens. This is outsourced to the Canadian Government.

/serious
 
2012-08-31 01:10:16 PM  
For those who can't see the article like me, here's the youtube clip of him explaining it:

Op-Doc: The Program (Stellar Wind)
 
2012-08-31 01:13:38 PM  
Lemme think here...

We have a congressionally-approved system to monitor communications everywhere BUT the US. We've built all sorts of truly amazing capabilities into it.

No, we're not going to somehow let that bleed over into domestic uses... Naw.... Would never happen. It's not like EVERY GODDAMN DATABASE EVER got used for purposes it's creators never envisioned.
 
2012-08-31 01:16:01 PM  
I predict OBAMA will make a movie that will BOMB. I will like better than The ASSASSINATION of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford, but others will hate it just because they think he is a MUSLIM. I'll star the dog from Benji, but not the actual dog because BenJI HAD some heart problems and ALLAH those dogs had to be KILLED.

/Hey NSA, could you pick up my dry cleaning on the way over? Thanks.
 
2012-08-31 01:17:17 PM  
PlatinumDragon:
SETEC ASTRONOMY
TOO MANY SECRETS
 
2012-08-31 01:19:41 PM  

mrshowrules: The US Government doesn't electronically monitor its own citizens. This is outsourced to the Canadian Government.

/serious


Echelon?
 
2012-08-31 01:21:58 PM  
So the loophole is that as long as a person does not examine the information gathered, it is not a seizure. So computers/databases can build complex inter-domain and inter-personal relationship models of you and everyone you interact with and that information just sits there, waiting. Waiting until you or someone or some organization that you interacted with becomes of enough interest that they can get a warrant (or whatever approval) to then "seize" that information. How much information can they then "constitutionally" acquire? How far down the branching halls of relationships can they reach before they are "seizing" beyond their warrant?

Really contriving here, but let's say Drew got really loaded (ok,OK. I know that would never happen) one night and was overheard muttering "terroristic threats against national security"? Perhaps their databases, their models might show that he's the apparent leader of a international network of subversive malcontents - and that I'm a part of that network. Perhaps they then expand their "seizure" to include all of my intelligence domains, all of yours too.

Sounds like that XKCD bobcat strip... might as well start making it "interesting" ;)
 
2012-08-31 01:24:21 PM  

TheGhostofFarkPast: I think it's pretty well known fact that much like with Cops a lot of raging authoritarian meatheads go into the FBI, CIA, NSA, etc so they can exert as much power as they can on anyone at any time. not only that but they tend to have a pretty illogical and irrational level which lets them do all types of wicked shiat and not bat an eye. It is truly amazing just how bad the US government is when they can do so much of this type of stuff and America just sits back and eats another cheeseburger all while they enjoy "america's got talent."


Heh. You think people in the NSA "exert power".

The NSA uses math, not submachineguns. Lots and lots of math. They're not "meatheads." They turn over their data to other people, some of whom may use it to "exert power", but they're not getting any personal jollies out of it. Up until a couple of decades ago, NSA employees couldn't even acknowledge that they worked for the NSA, let alone use their position to bully someone. It's not the place that someone looking to do "wicked" things at an "irrational level" would go, unless by "irrational" you mean "square root of minus one".
 
2012-08-31 01:46:55 PM  

PlatinumDragon: mrshowrules: The US Government doesn't electronically monitor its own citizens. This is outsourced to the Canadian Government.

/serious

Echelon?


Basically this. There is a three-way agreement between Canada, US and the UK. 60 Minutes had a very good expose on it but other sources have corroborated it.

I hear some helicopters outside....
 
2012-08-31 01:54:45 PM  
Thanks GOPers, you frightened America hating farggots.
 
2012-08-31 01:55:50 PM  
draypresct:

TheGhostofFarkPast: I think it's pretty well known fact that much like with Cops a lot of raging authoritarian meatheads go into the FBI, CIA, NSA, etc so they can exert as much power as they can on anyone at any time. not only that but they tend to have a pretty illogical and irrational level which lets them do all types of wicked shiat and not bat an eye. It is truly amazing just how bad the US government is when they can do so much of this type of stuff and America just sits back and eats another cheeseburger all while they enjoy "america's got talent."

Heh. You think people in the NSA "exert power".

The NSA uses math, not submachineguns. Lots and lots of math. They're not "meatheads." They turn over their data to other people, some of whom may use it to "exert power", but they're not getting any personal jollies out of it. Up until a couple of decades ago, NSA employees couldn't even acknowledge that they worked for the NSA, let alone use their position to bully someone. It's not the place that someone looking to do "wicked" things at an "irrational level" would go, unless by "irrational" you mean "square root of minus one".


You'd be surprised... I think it has to do with whomever is running the place, but in personal experience I've seen all of the three-letter agencies come to the fore every so often.

So, no, NSA employees probably can't do diddly... NSA as an organization, yes, they do wake up sometimes.
 
2012-08-31 01:57:39 PM  
Our "We-have-difficulty-connecting-the-dots" "intelligence" agencies want more dots.
 
2012-08-31 02:03:33 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: William Cooper wasn't so crazy after all, huh?

/Behold a Pale Horse


He was probably on the MAIN CORE list. 

Telling the truth is a threat national security.......although you had to wade through shoulder height piles of bullshiat in order to find the truth....same can be said of Alex Jones.
 
2012-08-31 02:07:06 PM  

JerkyMeat: Thanks GOPers, you frightened America hating farggots.


Yeah, the Democrats are totally blameless for this.

Yes, that is sarcasm.
 
2012-08-31 02:09:20 PM  
Giltric:

DROxINxTHExWIND: William Cooper wasn't so crazy after all, huh?

/Behold a Pale Horse

He was probably on the MAIN CORE list.

Telling the truth is a threat national security.......although you had to wade through shoulder height piles of bullshiat in order to find the truth....same can be said of Alex Jones.


Heh... Not that I know the program in question, but a farker named MAIN_CORE got on skookum's list the night it debuted...

And then retired, having done what it came to do.
 
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