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(Talking Points Memo)   A full list of everything that went wrong at the RNC   ( 2012.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line
    More: Florida, RNC, limping, roll call vote, bright spot, Tampa, Ann Romney, vice presidential candidate, Clint Eastwood  
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6242 clicks; posted to Politics » on 31 Aug 2012 at 9:41 AM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-31 01:11:35 PM  

badaboom:

You do realize a Republican would have done the same exact thing. At least we can agree bin Laden being dead is a good thing. But hard to reconcile the whole drone, gitmo still open etc with the hard left. Which Obama is it? The Nobel Peace prize Obama or the America Fark, Yeah. Can't be both.


Actually, no. The then Republican candidate specifically stated that he would NOT have violated Packistans sovereignty to get Bin laden:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2011_05/029220.p h p

Obama always stated he would have a very aggressive foreign policy visa-vie terrorism, it was actually a talking point against him in 2008. Most folks voted for him expecting an America Fark, Yeah policy and he more than delivered. You have to at least give Obama as much credit for bin laden as you give him blame for the economy, to do otherwise is pretty disingenuous.
 
2012-08-31 01:12:01 PM  

badaboom: cameroncrazy1984: badaboom: Yeah, that's it. You got me. Now tell me why you are voting for Obama.

1) PPACA
2) bin Laden
3) he plans to cut the deficit by using a sane strategy of raising taxes on the wealthy and cutting fraud and waste out of government.

See, when your candidate actually has a record worth noting and has articulated a plan for the future, it's very easy to answer that question.


Funny, cause 1 and 3 are actually the reasons why I am voting against him. And 2, well that's not a reason to elect someone is it? You do realize a Republican would have done the same exact thing. At least we can agree bin Laden being dead is a good thing. But hard to reconcile the whole drone, gitmo still open etc with the hard left. Which Obama is it? The Nobel Peace prize Obama or the America Fark, Yeah. Can't be both.


Now I know your trolling.

The Republicans DID have a shot at getting him. At Tora Bora. They specifically backed off. Bush disbanded the unit tracking Bin Laden. Bush and several advisors made numerous public statements declaring Bin Laden was no longer a prioirty. McCain and the Republicans freaked out when Obama said he would do exactly what he ended up authorizing with the raid during a debate.

GITMO is also open because the GOP filibustered efforts to close it. The Drone program has shown far more succesful results than any of the operations Bush enacted. Al Qaeda wasn't even IN Iraq until after the invasion.
 
2012-08-31 01:18:02 PM  

Mercutio74: mrshowrules: Zerochance: Now that we're past the convention, I feel like a bunch of old white motherfarkers are trying to sell me a goddamn Betamax while trying to convince me it's "the next big thing".

If they outlaw porn, you might be wishing you still had a VCR that played Betamax.

I'm starting to think of the GOP as HDDVD. The Republican base is looking to purchase this:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x197]


What is that 4 Terabits? Might be OK for my German stuff I suppose but I going to need a few dozen overall.
 
2012-08-31 01:18:05 PM  

badaboom: Corvus: badaboom: cameroncrazy1984: badaboom: In my opinion, Romney's vision for America is the right direction to go. I believe he will do a better job. In my opinion, Obama ihas done a poor job. Those are my opinions. What are yours?

What is his vision for America, and why do you believe that is better?

This platform is better than Obama's. Prove me wrong.

Link

So you don't know why yourself? You don't think for yourself about these issues you just cut and paste what you are told?

Yeah, that's it. You got me. Now tell me why you are voting for Obama.


I have lots of reasons the main reason is because we will have a economic system that will be more fair. One that will give more opportunity to the poor and middle class to be successful if they work hard. Romney on the other hand will follow Bush policies that will make it harder for the poor and middle class while just giving tax cuts to the rich.


Now will you finally answer me?
 
2012-08-31 01:19:22 PM  

badaboom: But Fark has already told me why we support Romney. And it is all of the above. How could it be anything else? The only people who support Romney are dumb racists. Every single one of them.


Who has said that? Then why not set the record straight? Why do you like making yourself into a victim?
 
2012-08-31 01:26:43 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: mrshowrules: Romney's only chance now is if Obama gets high before the debates.

I feel like that could only help Obama.


I can see it in my minds eye. Obama walks on to the stage and instead of shaking hands with the Mitt, he holds up a fist bump. Several awkward seconds. "Don't leave me hanging Williard." Finally, Romney goes for the fist bump but before completion, Obama pulls his hand away to wave to various people in the audience.

Obama sits down and giggles while Romney answers the first question. Obama loudly squeals and various other outbursts of laughter at all the GOP talking points. When it is Obama's turn to answer, he stands up (still giggling), picks up the empty chair and places it closer to Romney, gestures to it and then walks off the stage.
 
2012-08-31 01:26:58 PM  

Wicked Chinchilla: 1) Intelligent, nuanced, situation based foreign policy
2) PPACA
3) Support for higher education
4) Vastly superior record in support for the sciences
5) Intelligent deficit reduction using both tax increases and cuts (or you know, listening to the damn experts)
6) Much better record on support for green technology/new energy technology coupled with a realistic energy policy (heres a hint: theres no single answer thats adequate)
7) supports finance reform
8) Rights for the LGBT community, women's rights


1) That's a joke
2) Most Americans disagree with you.
3) Care to share details?
4) Details?
5) Funny, I thought the deficit was getting bigger. Is there some sort of parallel universe this is occurring in?
6) Hint: Solyndra.
7) Specifics?
8) Not an issue in this election with the undecideds.
 
2012-08-31 01:27:10 PM  

Corvus: I have lots of reasons the main reason is because we will have a economic system that will be more fair. One that will give more opportunity to the poor and middle class to be successful if they work hard. Romney on the other hand will follow Bush policies that will make it harder for the poor and middle class while just giving tax cuts to the rich.


I'll give specific ways it will be more fair:

1) College - I believe under Obama that it will be easier for poor and middle class to go to college because those public funds will not be cut like under Romney they might.

2) Taxes - Obama want's to protect the tax cuts for the poor and middle classes. Ryan's plan would most likely raise taxes on those people. Romney has not given specifics but analysis of what he has said show he will need to get money somewhere and Romney has said he is going to remove many deductions to cut tax rates for the rich so it's assumed these deductions would come from the middle class.

3) Healthcare - Healthcare is one of the biggest burdens to the poor and middle class. Under "Obamacare" medical expenses get capped which will means much less of the middle class becoming bankrupt because of getting sick or loved one's getting sick which was the number 1 cause of bankrupts in the US. Also poor people will have subsidized healthcare coverage. Lastly many people will now be able to retire because they will be able to keep their healthcare which will open more jobs for people.


See I am happy to discuss why I support Obama because I actually understand why I support him. To me it seems if you are afraid to tell someone why you support a candidate it's probably because you don't know why you do.
 
2012-08-31 01:28:14 PM  

Corvus: Corvus: I have lots of reasons the main reason is because we will have a economic system that will be more fair. One that will give more opportunity to the poor and middle class to be successful if they work hard. Romney on the other hand will follow Bush policies that will make it harder for the poor and middle class while just giving tax cuts to the rich.

I'll give specific ways it will be more fair:

1) College - I believe under Obama that it will be easier for poor and middle class to go to college because those public funds will not be cut like under Romney they might.

2) Taxes - Obama want's to protect the tax cuts for the poor and middle classes. Ryan's plan would most likely raise taxes on those people. Romney has not given specifics but analysis of what he has said show he will need to get money somewhere and Romney has said he is going to remove many deductions to cut tax rates for the rich so it's assumed these deductions would come from the middle class.

3) Healthcare - Healthcare is one of the biggest burdens to the poor and middle class. Under "Obamacare" medical expenses get capped which will means much less of the middle class becoming bankrupt because of getting sick or loved one's getting sick which was the number 1 cause of bankrupts in the US. Also poor people will have subsidized healthcare coverage. Lastly many people will now be able to retire because they will be able to keep their healthcare which will open more jobs for people.


See I am happy to discuss why I support Obama because I actually understand why I support him. To me it seems if you are afraid to tell someone why you support a candidate it's probably because you don't know why you do.


Why did you waste all those keystrokes when all you need to type was REDISTRIBUTION.
 
2012-08-31 01:28:55 PM  

badaboom: Wicked Chinchilla: 1) Intelligent, nuanced, situation based foreign policy
2) PPACA
3) Support for higher education
4) Vastly superior record in support for the sciences
5) Intelligent deficit reduction using both tax increases and cuts (or you know, listening to the damn experts)
6) Much better record on support for green technology/new energy technology coupled with a realistic energy policy (heres a hint: theres no single answer thats adequate)
7) supports finance reform
8) Rights for the LGBT community, women's rights

1) That's a joke
2) Most Americans disagree with you.
3) Care to share details?
4) Details?
5) Funny, I thought the deficit was getting bigger. Is there some sort of parallel universe this is occurring in?
6) Hint: Solyndra.
7) Specifics?
8) Not an issue in this election with the undecideds.


So you need to give not reasons at all but everyone else must give every detail possible? Don't you think that's a double standard??
 
2012-08-31 01:30:19 PM  

badaboom: Corvus: Corvus: I have lots of reasons the main reason is because we will have a economic system that will be more fair. One that will give more opportunity to the poor and middle class to be successful if they work hard. Romney on the other hand will follow Bush policies that will make it harder for the poor and middle class while just giving tax cuts to the rich.

I'll give specific ways it will be more fair:

1) College - I believe under Obama that it will be easier for poor and middle class to go to college because those public funds will not be cut like under Romney they might.

2) Taxes - Obama want's to protect the tax cuts for the poor and middle classes. Ryan's plan would most likely raise taxes on those people. Romney has not given specifics but analysis of what he has said show he will need to get money somewhere and Romney has said he is going to remove many deductions to cut tax rates for the rich so it's assumed these deductions would come from the middle class.

3) Healthcare - Healthcare is one of the biggest burdens to the poor and middle class. Under "Obamacare" medical expenses get capped which will means much less of the middle class becoming bankrupt because of getting sick or loved one's getting sick which was the number 1 cause of bankrupts in the US. Also poor people will have subsidized healthcare coverage. Lastly many people will now be able to retire because they will be able to keep their healthcare which will open more jobs for people.


See I am happy to discuss why I support Obama because I actually understand why I support him. To me it seems if you are afraid to tell someone why you support a candidate it's probably because you don't know why you do.

Why did you waste all those keystrokes when all you need to type was REDISTRIBUTION.


It gives OPPORTUNITY for people who work hard to SUCCEED. Last I checked we called that "The AMERICAN DREAM".

You don't think people should be given an opportunity to succeed in this country?
 
2012-08-31 01:31:20 PM  

badaboom: Why did you waste all those keystrokes when all you need to type was REDISTRIBUTION.


SO you against all taxes and all government programs? Defense spending is also Redistribution of wealth are you against that too then?
 
2012-08-31 01:34:10 PM  

badaboom: Why did you waste all those keystrokes when all you need to type was REDISTRIBUTION.


The largest Government money "REDISTRIBUTION" program is US defense spending that Romney says he will increase. Are you against that too?

The programs I have mention creates a more productive work force and more likely higher paid people who will then be able to contribute more to the economy.

I want people to work. Not to be stuck in welfare. Why do you want people to be stuck in welfare?
 
2012-08-31 01:37:59 PM  

mrshowrules: What is that 4 Terabits? Might be OK for my German stuff I suppose but I going to need a few dozen overall.


That, my friend, was the XBox HD-DVD add on. Romney probably still gets his OS updated from HD-DVD.
 
2012-08-31 01:38:07 PM  

badaboom: Why did you waste all those keystrokes when all you need to type was REDISTRIBUTION.


Lets look at the numbers here:

For the 2010 fiscal year, the president's base budget of the Department of spending on "overseas contingency operations" brings the sum to $663.84 billion.[1]

Department of Education: US$56 billion ( 2010)



You are telling me 663 billion is less redistribution than 56 billion?

Romney wants to increase that 663 billion by a lot. Where is that money going to come from exactly?
 
2012-08-31 01:46:09 PM  

badaboom:
I gave you one rule. Those others came to your mind on their own.

In my opinion, Romney's vision for America is the right direction to go. I believe he will do a better job. In my opinion, Obama ihas done a poor job. Those are my opinions. What are yours?


Empty platitudes. What will he even do? I think Obama is doing a pretty good job. I don't claim he is the best ever...but he trying to work with the Republican party that flat-out won't work with him on anything. My opinion is sh*t was really really bad and now it is not really really bad. Yes, of course it could be better, but I believe he is on our side. I do not trust Mitt to give one sh*t about me.


Pretty sad that you believe this about 50% of your fellow Americans.


I don't believe that about fellow Americans...I just believe those seem to be the views of your parties elected officials with the laws they try to pass. I don't think 50% of Americans are that spiteful.
 
2012-08-31 01:57:41 PM  

badaboom: Wicked Chinchilla: 1) Intelligent, nuanced, situation based foreign policy
2) PPACA
3) Support for higher education
4) Vastly superior record in support for the sciences
5) Intelligent deficit reduction using both tax increases and cuts (or you know, listening to the damn experts)
6) Much better record on support for green technology/new energy technology coupled with a realistic energy policy (heres a hint: theres no single answer thats adequate)
7) supports finance reform
8) Rights for the LGBT community, women's rights

1) That's a joke
2) Most Americans disagree with you.
3) Care to share details?
4) Details?
5) Funny, I thought the deficit was getting bigger. Is there some sort of parallel universe this is occurring in?
6) Hint: Solyndra.
7) Specifics?
8) Not an issue in this election with the undecideds.


1) Bin Laden, Quaddafi, new nuclear proliferation treaty, extremely effective drone program, Deposition of arab dictatorships in Morocco, Egypt, and Tunisia, end of combat actions in Iraq, actual plan to get us out of Afghanistan. The list goes on. Can't seem to find a joke

2) No. Most Americans are against the term "Obamacare". Until you actually tell them whats in the healthcare law. Then the public swings far into the support column. shiat, I don't even like PPACA myself in its present form (though I like many of its reforms) because the only real answer to effective healthcare is some kind of universal system.

3) Romney wants to end pell grants. He is against lender regulations. He is against better monitoring of predatory schools with low graduation rates. Obama on the other hand wants to keep pell grants, rehire local teachers, and has put into place numerous provisions to fight predatory lending and abusive for-profit schools

4) He expanded public funding to HHS, NIH, etc. Better university/higher education support also goes here because grad students are truly the backbone of scientific research

5) The deficit is getting bigger. It is a complex problem that requires complex longterm solutions. Like intelligent tax increases and targeted spending cuts. LIke what economic experts agree should happen. The parallel universe is one where we can cut our way out of the problem.

6) He promised to double the amount of energy produced by renewables in his first term. HE did it. Wind power has taken off. He supports research into alternative energy. At the same time he has increased oil drilling off shore and with fracking. He has a balanced approach to energy which is absolutely essential to our future success as a nation.

7) Seriously? Come ON dude

8) Apparently the GOP thinks its important enough to put women's rights and the "Evil Gays" on their platform. Romney straight up stated he will protect the family in his speech. Whether its important for independents or not, its one of the few issues Romney has actually put some form of stake into.

Now, what about you? Do you let indigestion make every decision for you or just whom you elect?
 
2012-08-31 02:00:39 PM  

Corvus: badaboom: Corvus: Corvus: I have lots of reasons the main reason is because we will have a economic system that will be more fair. One that will give more opportunity to the poor and middle class to be successful if they work hard. Romney on the other hand will follow Bush policies that will make it harder for the poor and middle class while just giving tax cuts to the rich.

I'll give specific ways it will be more fair:

1) College - I believe under Obama that it will be easier for poor and middle class to go to college because those public funds will not be cut like under Romney they might.

2) Taxes - Obama want's to protect the tax cuts for the poor and middle classes. Ryan's plan would most likely raise taxes on those people. Romney has not given specifics but analysis of what he has said show he will need to get money somewhere and Romney has said he is going to remove many deductions to cut tax rates for the rich so it's assumed these deductions would come from the middle class.

3) Healthcare - Healthcare is one of the biggest burdens to the poor and middle class. Under "Obamacare" medical expenses get capped which will means much less of the middle class becoming bankrupt because of getting sick or loved one's getting sick which was the number 1 cause of bankrupts in the US. Also poor people will have subsidized healthcare coverage. Lastly many people will now be able to retire because they will be able to keep their healthcare which will open more jobs for people.


See I am happy to discuss why I support Obama because I actually understand why I support him. To me it seems if you are afraid to tell someone why you support a candidate it's probably because you don't know why you do.

Why did you waste all those keystrokes when all you need to type was REDISTRIBUTION.

It gives OPPORTUNITY for people who work hard to SUCCEED. Last I checked we called that "The AMERICAN DREAM".

You don't think people should be given an opportunity to succeed in this country ...


I 100% believe that everyone should be guaranteed the same opportunity. Just don't agree that everyone should be guaranteed the same outcome. That being said, I would love for everyone to have the same outcome, call it what you want wealth, happiness. The left often unfairly thinks that the right loves it when people fail. We love it when people are poor. Fark everyone else. That's just not the case. But guess what, the world needs ditch diggers. Not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer.
 
2012-08-31 02:04:03 PM  

badaboom: I 100% believe that everyone should be guaranteed the same opportunity. Just don't agree that everyone should be guaranteed the same outcome. That being said, I would love for everyone to have the same outcome, call it what you want wealth, happiness. The left often unfairly thinks that the right loves it when people fail. We love it when people are poor. Fark everyone else. That's just not the case. But guess what, the world needs ditch diggers. Not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer.


That's the point, isn't it? The left believes that the public should have the tools so that your skill and your character is what gets you to where you end up in life. Currently in the US, the greatest predictor of adult wealth is how wealthy your parents are. That's an indication that social programs are not robust enough... unless of course you happen to think that potential is genetic.
 
2012-08-31 02:04:35 PM  

busy chillin': badaboom:
I gave you one rule. Those others came to your mind on their own.

In my opinion, Romney's vision for America is the right direction to go. I believe he will do a better job. In my opinion, Obama ihas done a poor job. Those are my opinions. What are yours?

Empty platitudes. What will he even do? I think Obama is doing a pretty good job. I don't claim he is the best ever...but he trying to work with the Republican party that flat-out won't work with him on anything. My opinion is sh*t was really really bad and now it is not really really bad. Yes, of course it could be better, but I believe he is on our side. I do not trust Mitt to give one sh*t about me.


Pretty sad that you believe this about 50% of your fellow Americans.


I don't believe that about fellow Americans...I just believe those seem to be the views of your parties elected officials with the laws they try to pass. I don't think 50% of Americans are that spiteful.


Over 50% of Californians....CALIFORNIANS.....voted against Gay Marriage (Proposition 8). Given that 43% of the electorate is Dem and only 30% is Republican why do you think it passed?
 
2012-08-31 02:06:39 PM  

Mercutio74: badaboom: I 100% believe that everyone should be guaranteed the same opportunity. Just don't agree that everyone should be guaranteed the same outcome. That being said, I would love for everyone to have the same outcome, call it what you want wealth, happiness. The left often unfairly thinks that the right loves it when people fail. We love it when people are poor. Fark everyone else. That's just not the case. But guess what, the world needs ditch diggers. Not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer.

That's the point, isn't it? The left believes that the public should have the tools so that your skill and your character is what gets you to where you end up in life. Currently in the US, the greatest predictor of adult wealth is how wealthy your parents are. That's an indication that social programs are not robust enough... unless of course you happen to think that potential is genetic.



Good points. Your last statement is unfair. Is there anyone out there saying there should not be equal education?
 
2012-08-31 02:08:05 PM  

Corvus: badaboom: Why did you waste all those keystrokes when all you need to type was REDISTRIBUTION.

Lets look at the numbers here:

For the 2010 fiscal year, the president's base budget of the Department of spending on "overseas contingency operations" brings the sum to $663.84 billion.[1]

Department of Education: US$56 billion ( 2010)


You are telling me 663 billion is less redistribution than 56 billion?

Romney wants to increase that 663 billion by a lot. Where is that money going to come from exactly?


One thing we can agree on, where is the money going to come for any of this? We are broke.
 
2012-08-31 02:10:02 PM  

badaboom:
Over 50% of Californians....CALIFORNIANS.....voted against Gay Marriage (Proposition 8). Given that 43% of the electorate is Dem and only 30% is Republican why do you think it passed?


I don't know why. I was surprised by that outcome.

But to me it all just seems like a distraction from real issues like the economy and jobs. If people truly love the constitution and the first amendment, limiting freedoms shouldn't even be an option. Especially when it is based on a religious belief.

But it comes down to control.
 
2012-08-31 02:17:18 PM  

busy chillin': badaboom:
Over 50% of Californians....CALIFORNIANS.....voted against Gay Marriage (Proposition 8). Given that 43% of the electorate is Dem and only 30% is Republican why do you think it passed?

I don't know why. I was surprised by that outcome.

But to me it all just seems like a distraction from real issues like the economy and jobs. If people truly love the constitution and the first amendment, limiting freedoms shouldn't even be an option. Especially when it is based on a religious belief.

But it comes down to control.


Point is you can't just point the finger at Republicans if you are for gay rights. Once that curtain is closed people vote the way they do. The dirty secret is that Black voters and Hispanics voted overwhelmingly against gay marriage.

61% of Latinos voted yes.
70% of Black voters voted yes. (yes vote was against gay marriage)

Funny you NEVER see the left point the homophobe finger at Black America. Yet the evidence is there that African Americans are very homophobic. It is not just the "right".
 
2012-08-31 02:21:08 PM  

badaboom: Mercutio74: badaboom: I 100% believe that everyone should be guaranteed the same opportunity. Just don't agree that everyone should be guaranteed the same outcome. That being said, I would love for everyone to have the same outcome, call it what you want wealth, happiness. The left often unfairly thinks that the right loves it when people fail. We love it when people are poor. Fark everyone else. That's just not the case. But guess what, the world needs ditch diggers. Not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer.

That's the point, isn't it? The left believes that the public should have the tools so that your skill and your character is what gets you to where you end up in life. Currently in the US, the greatest predictor of adult wealth is how wealthy your parents are. That's an indication that social programs are not robust enough... unless of course you happen to think that potential is genetic.


Good points. Your last statement is unfair. Is there anyone out there saying there should not be equal education?


Yes. Republicans are absolutely against Pell Grants and other financial assistance. These are things that help the poor and middle class get an equal shot at a higher education.
 
2012-08-31 02:23:57 PM  

badaboom:

Point is you can't just point the finger at Republicans if you are for gay rights. Once that curtain is closed people vote the way they do. The dirty secret is that Black voters and Hispanics voted overwhelmingly against gay marriage.

61% of Latinos voted yes.
70% of Black voters voted yes. (yes vote was against gay marriage)

Funny you NEVER see the left point the homophobe finger at Black America. Yet the evidence is there that African Americans are very homophobic. It is not just the "right".


Valid point. But show me a democrat elected official pushing to limit peoples rights. The citizens can believe what they want...it is the elected officials I have a problem with.
 
2012-08-31 02:25:26 PM  
and if there is a democrat pushing it, I also have a problem with him/her.
 
2012-08-31 02:28:32 PM  

busy chillin': badaboom:

Point is you can't just point the finger at Republicans if you are for gay rights. Once that curtain is closed people vote the way they do. The dirty secret is that Black voters and Hispanics voted overwhelmingly against gay marriage.

61% of Latinos voted yes.
70% of Black voters voted yes. (yes vote was against gay marriage)

Funny you NEVER see the left point the homophobe finger at Black America. Yet the evidence is there that African Americans are very homophobic. It is not just the "right".

Valid point. But show me a democrat elected official pushing to limit peoples rights. The citizens can believe what they want...it is the elected officials I have a problem with.


In the near future this will not even be an issue and we will be embarrassed it even was. I agree the right has a long way to go. But the bottom line is that religious folk, both on the left AND the right are going to be the most resistant. You have black priests who are very against gay marriage. But by the same token not all Republicans are homophobic or anti-gay marriage. And it is not that hard to change. In 2008 I voted for proposition 8. When it comes around again I will vote the opposite way. Change of heart. It can happen.
 
2012-08-31 02:29:41 PM  

Wicked Chinchilla: badaboom: Mercutio74: badaboom: I 100% believe that everyone should be guaranteed the same opportunity. Just don't agree that everyone should be guaranteed the same outcome. That being said, I would love for everyone to have the same outcome, call it what you want wealth, happiness. The left often unfairly thinks that the right loves it when people fail. We love it when people are poor. Fark everyone else. That's just not the case. But guess what, the world needs ditch diggers. Not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer.

That's the point, isn't it? The left believes that the public should have the tools so that your skill and your character is what gets you to where you end up in life. Currently in the US, the greatest predictor of adult wealth is how wealthy your parents are. That's an indication that social programs are not robust enough... unless of course you happen to think that potential is genetic.


Good points. Your last statement is unfair. Is there anyone out there saying there should not be equal education?

Yes. Republicans are absolutely against Pell Grants and other financial assistance. These are things that help the poor and middle class get an equal shot at a higher education.


You can be against those things for reasons other than screw everyone else.
 
2012-08-31 02:30:22 PM  

badaboom: I 100% believe that everyone should be guaranteed the same opportunity. Just don't agree that everyone should be guaranteed the same outcome. That being said, I would love for everyone to have the same outcome, call it what you want wealth, happiness. The left often unfairly thinks that the right loves it when people fail. We love it when people are poor. Fark everyone else. That's just not the case. But guess what, the world needs ditch diggers. Not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer.


I never said that. You are putting words in my mouth. I said People should get the opportunity to succeeded if they work hard.


So why are you against giving people the tools so that if they work hard they can succeed? That's all I am asking. You attacked it as "Redistribution".
 
2012-08-31 02:34:34 PM  

badaboom: Just don't agree that everyone should be guaranteed the same outcome.


I didn't say that. Obama hasn't said that. No Democrat I have ever heard has ever said that. You are making a position for people that they don't actually have. What we want to do is give people an opportunity to succeed if they work hard.

Access to additional education for the poor is a great way to do this. Believe it or not. I want people off of welfare but I think you do that by giving them other opportunities not just cutting the money off.
 
2012-08-31 02:36:10 PM  
But it's the GOP/Right Wing that brings out these very discriminatory propositions and positions like Prop 8 and transvaginal insertions and no-abortions under any circumstances.

They KNOW that no-abortion under any circumstances is a distasteful position to take, and when one of theirs (Akin) pointed out how it's not relevant in case of rape, they shot him down, but they haven't changed their position on it.

They're against same-sex marriage, and have written laws to that effect. Individuals may or may not be against same-sex marriage, and people can enjoy the debates among themselves. But for a major political party to write into their platform a view that is antithetical to the constitution and, more importantly, human kindness and humanity itself, that's an indication that they've gone off the deep end.

Seriously, I would imagine such platform from the fringe American Independent Party or some sort.
 
2012-08-31 02:37:05 PM  

badaboom:

In the near future this will not even be an issue and we will be embarrassed it even was. I agree the right has a long way to go. But the bottom line is that religious folk, both on the left AND the right are going to be the most resistant. You have black priests who are very against gay marriage. But by the same token not all Republicans are homophobic or anti-gay marriage. And it is not that hard to change. In 2008 I voted for proposition 8. When it comes around again I will vote the opposite way. Change of heart. It can happen.



whoa! Nice.
 
2012-08-31 02:37:25 PM  

badaboom: Corvus: badaboom: Why did you waste all those keystrokes when all you need to type was REDISTRIBUTION.

Lets look at the numbers here:

For the 2010 fiscal year, the president's base budget of the Department of spending on "overseas contingency operations" brings the sum to $663.84 billion.[1]

Department of Education: US$56 billion ( 2010)


You are telling me 663 billion is less redistribution than 56 billion?

Romney wants to increase that 663 billion by a lot. Where is that money going to come from exactly?

One thing we can agree on, where is the money going to come for any of this? We are broke.


Well then why do you support the guy who wants to increase defense spending which is half the US discretionary budget? He is talking about more spending then Obama is and he wants to cut taxes even more. Romney would add more to the deficit than Obama would.

All these other programs together which you called "redistribution" are much much smaller than the Defense budget which Romney believe should be increased by a lot.
 
2012-08-31 02:38:00 PM  

busy chillin': badaboom:

In the near future this will not even be an issue and we will be embarrassed it even was. I agree the right has a long way to go. But the bottom line is that religious folk, both on the left AND the right are going to be the most resistant. You have black priests who are very against gay marriage. But by the same token not all Republicans are homophobic or anti-gay marriage. And it is not that hard to change. In 2008 I voted for proposition 8. When it comes around again I will vote the opposite way. Change of heart. It can happen.


whoa! Nice.


/true
//csb
 
2012-08-31 02:41:00 PM  

Corvus: badaboom: Corvus: badaboom: Why did you waste all those keystrokes when all you need to type was REDISTRIBUTION.

Lets look at the numbers here:

For the 2010 fiscal year, the president's base budget of the Department of spending on "overseas contingency operations" brings the sum to $663.84 billion.[1]

Department of Education: US$56 billion ( 2010)


You are telling me 663 billion is less redistribution than 56 billion?

Romney wants to increase that 663 billion by a lot. Where is that money going to come from exactly?

One thing we can agree on, where is the money going to come for any of this? We are broke.

Well then why do you support the guy who wants to increase defense spending which is half the US discretionary budget? He is talking about more spending then Obama is and he wants to cut taxes even more. Romney would add more to the deficit than Obama would.

All these other programs together which you called "redistribution" are much much smaller than the Defense budget which Romney believe should be increased by a lot.


Wish it was that simple to take money from Defense and put it toward education. Would be great if we did not have to spend a dime on war. Too bad everyone else is spending. In my opinion, defense is one the primary responsibilities of the federal government. Nation building? Maybe not. But Education is best left to local and State.
 
2012-08-31 02:48:59 PM  

badaboom: But Education is best left to local and State.


Problem is, our society is more connected than ever before. This statement made perfect sense way back in the day when there were no common curricula and students rarely left their local area.

Nowadays, there's a vested national interest in general education.
 
2012-08-31 02:52:29 PM  

sprawl15: badaboom: But Education is best left to local and State.

Problem is, our society is more connected than ever before. This statement made perfect sense way back in the day when there were no common curricula and students rarely left their local area.

Nowadays, there's a vested national interest in general education.


There may be common goals, but from an efficiency standpoint, sending dollars to DC for this is often a waste. Plus you get things like no child left behind. Plus what works in Texas may not work in Oregon.
 
2012-08-31 02:59:48 PM  
What none of you realize is that badaboom is simply Cleverbot in conservative emulation mode
 
2012-08-31 03:02:26 PM  

badaboom: There may be common goals, but from an efficiency standpoint, sending dollars to DC for this is often a waste


On the contrary - one of the biggest problems with education is that the majority of funding is local, usually through property taxes. This damns students for the sins of their parents.

The solution often thrown out is vouchers, but that's utterly ridiculous - you're paying for a shiatty school in a shiatty neighborhood, then paying more money to send kids from that district to a different, private school.

badaboom: Plus you get things like no child left behind.


You get good things and bad things from Congress. NCLB being an abortion doesn't make the concept of Federal education funding moot.

badaboom: Plus what works in Texas may not work in Oregon.


That's the whole point - this simply isn't true any more. People aren't beholden to a single location for the majority of their life. What works best for Texas doesn't matter anywhere near as much as what works for the average American, because of the sheer amount of mixing among states, both literally and in terms of information sharing.

Fifty years ago, sending a message to a friend of mine across the country would have taken weeks. Now, I can do it on my phone while I'm taking a shiat. That has a huge impact on the way our society should be approaching problems.
 
2012-08-31 03:07:25 PM  

sprawl15: badaboom: There may be common goals, but from an efficiency standpoint, sending dollars to DC for this is often a waste

On the contrary - one of the biggest problems with education is that the majority of funding is local, usually through property taxes. This damns students for the sins of their parents.

The solution often thrown out is vouchers, but that's utterly ridiculous - you're paying for a shiatty school in a shiatty neighborhood, then paying more money to send kids from that district to a different, private school.

badaboom: Plus you get things like no child left behind.

You get good things and bad things from Congress. NCLB being an abortion doesn't make the concept of Federal education funding moot.

badaboom: Plus what works in Texas may not work in Oregon.

That's the whole point - this simply isn't true any more. People aren't beholden to a single location for the majority of their life. What works best for Texas doesn't matter anywhere near as much as what works for the average American, because of the sheer amount of mixing among states, both literally and in terms of information sharing.

Fifty years ago, sending a message to a friend of mine across the country would have taken weeks. Now, I can do it on my phone while I'm taking a shiat. That has a huge impact on the way our society should be approaching problems.


People in Texas have different values than those in Oregon. Really want to start talking about what gets taught about evolution on a national level?
 
2012-08-31 03:08:08 PM  

Harold_of_the_Rocks: What none of you realize is that badaboom is simply Cleverbot in conservative emulation mode


Sorry, don't know what that means.
 
2012-08-31 03:14:30 PM  

badaboom: Really want to start talking about what gets taught about evolution on a national level?


Not particularly, any more than I want to talk about the dangers of devil wagons replacing our beloved horse drawn carriages.

badaboom: People in Texas have different values than those in Oregon.


What does that matter? Why are public schools the place to impose a morality?

If you require indoctrination to fit in to your local economy, your local economy needs a swift boot to the head.
 
2012-08-31 03:17:37 PM  

sprawl15: badaboom: Really want to start talking about what gets taught about evolution on a national level?

Not particularly, any more than I want to talk about the dangers of devil wagons replacing our beloved horse drawn carriages.

badaboom: People in Texas have different values than those in Oregon.

What does that matter? Why are public schools the place to impose a morality?

If you require indoctrination to fit in to your local economy, your local economy needs a swift boot to the head.


Except for math and science, all education is value based. The books picked in English? Value based. What to emphasize in history? Value based. Hard to separate the 2. Utah is way different than Massachusetts.
 
2012-08-31 03:27:31 PM  

badaboom: Except for math and science, all education is value based. The books picked in English? Value based. What to emphasize in history? Value based. Hard to separate the 2. Utah is way different than Massachusetts.


Assuming we take your argument at face value and assume those are value based, how would the values in Utah make learning about certain historical events less important than in Massachusetts?
 
2012-08-31 03:39:53 PM  
Who got sick, stayed home from their special needs school, and dusted off their 7 year old sopranos referencing alt for this lame all-day derpfest?
 
2012-08-31 03:42:03 PM  

Farker Soze: Who got sick, stayed home from their special needs school, and dusted off their 7 year old sopranos referencing alt for this lame all-day derpfest?


Can I use that one? Awesome.
 
2012-08-31 03:46:56 PM  
Have at it, Corky.
 
2012-08-31 03:50:39 PM  

Farker Soze: Have at it, Corky.


Wow, a joke about Down's syndrome. How sensitive of you. Would be pretty embarrassing if you knew I had brother with Down's who attends one of those special needs schools. But you go on with your superior self.
 
2012-08-31 03:57:02 PM  
Sure, I'll do that, Arnie.
 
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