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(The New York Times)   Condoleezza Rice could not name a single area in which Obama had failed on foreign policy   (nytimes.com) divider line 135
    More: Interesting, Condoleezza Rice, foreign policy, exceptionalism  
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3437 clicks; posted to Politics » on 31 Aug 2012 at 8:40 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-31 08:13:58 AM
FTFA: "the Republicans charted a course of denial and obstruction from the day Mr. Obama was inaugurated, determined to deny him a second term by denying him any achievement, no matter the cost to the economy or American security"


/Not only does Condi have the nerve to be both black and a woman but now she insists on being honest, contrary to the party line, she must not care if she ever gets to run for President.
 
2012-08-31 08:29:53 AM

Voiceofreason01: FTFA: "the Republicans charted a course of denial and obstruction from the day Mr. Obama was inaugurated, determined to deny him a second term by denying him any achievement, no matter the cost to the economy or American security"


/Not only does Condi have the nerve to be both black and a woman but now she insists on being honest, contrary to the party line, she must not care if she ever gets to run for President.


That would be true if she had written the editorial.
 
2012-08-31 08:42:06 AM
Didn't he give the Queen of England a bunch of DVDs that were formatted for american DVD players?

FOREIGN POLICY FAIL
 
2012-08-31 08:48:00 AM

Spindle: Didn't he give the Queen of England a bunch of DVDs that were formatted for american DVD players?

FOREIGN POLICY FAIL


Don't forget that he bows and kneels before all those former leaders. I found this picture where he's bowing to welcome the Kenyan foreign minister.

images2.dailykos.com
 
2012-08-31 08:49:46 AM
The best thing the GOP could do about foreign policy this cycle is never mention it.
 
2012-08-31 08:51:32 AM
When you look at how things turned out in Egypt, if you are a pro-militant Muslim, it went very well.

/in other words, if you like Iran, you will love how the Muslim Brotherhood will run things there. Thanks Obama!
 
2012-08-31 08:51:33 AM
Bin Laden is dead, GM is alive. Under a Romney presidency, the opposite would have been true, according to Romney.
 
2012-08-31 08:51:48 AM

jso2897: The best thing the GOP could do about foreign policy this cycle is never mention it.


That should be the GOP's policy for just about everything this election. Just mail out the Romney/Ryan signs, then hide them both in Cheney's bunker until November. At least then they won't be digging the hole any farking deeper.
 
2012-08-31 08:51:58 AM
His greatest foreign policy triumph:

pub.mathaba.net

Of course, that's only after his ordering the assassination of an unarmed man in front of his family while violating the sovereign territory of a country that never attacked us using intelligence gathered using torture.
 
2012-08-31 08:52:18 AM

jso2897: The best thing the GOP could do about foreign policy this cycle is never mention it.


They have to. One of their biggest contributors wants to commit us to war in Iran. He's not paying for silence.
 
2012-08-31 08:52:52 AM

ghare: Bin Laden is dead, GM is alive. Under a Romney presidency, the opposite would have been true, according to Romney.


If the sole trophy from your foreign policy is killing OBL, then the trophy case is rather bare and embarrassing
 
2012-08-31 08:54:08 AM
Well yeah, they have a similar "cultural" background.

/amirite?
 
2012-08-31 08:54:23 AM
dtdstudios.com

/Pretty much the only thing you need to know.
 
2012-08-31 08:54:56 AM
[OBVIOUS]
 
2012-08-31 08:55:48 AM

EnviroDude: ghare: Bin Laden is dead, GM is alive. Under a Romney presidency, the opposite would have been true, according to Romney.

If the sole trophy from your foreign policy is killing OBL, then the trophy case is rather bare and embarrassing


Plus he was a job creator right
 
2012-08-31 08:57:26 AM

EnviroDude: ghare: Bin Laden is dead, GM is alive. Under a Romney presidency, the opposite would have been true, according to Romney.

If the sole trophy from your foreign policy is killing OBL, then the trophy case is rather bare and embarrassing


Do YOU know the names of the dozens of other terrorists that were killed under Obama? The ones that would have remained alive since Republicans were panty-wearing pansies who didn't want to upset our "ally" Pakistan, while Obama had the balls to say "fark them, there are parts of the Pakistani government that actively support the terrorists, we are going to go after them on our own terms". Now that's what Republicans wish they could do.
 
2012-08-31 08:57:41 AM

EnviroDude: ghare: Bin Laden is dead, GM is alive. Under a Romney presidency, the opposite would have been true, according to Romney.

If the sole trophy from your foreign policy is killing OBL, then the trophy case is rather bare and embarrassing


And yet, it's light years ahead of any Republican foreign policy in decades. I mean, Bush launched two wars to do it, at ruinous cost to America's finances, and FAILED.
 
2012-08-31 09:00:14 AM

EnviroDude: If the sole trophy...


Let's see... at least those that won't completely offend your delicate constitution...

47 nations rise to the challenge at US nuke summit and agree to four years of non-proliferation efforts.
G-20 Summit produced a $1.1 trillion deal to combat the global financial crisis.
Renewed loan guarantees for Israel.
Pledged $400 million in aid to Gaza civillians.
Iran Sanctions Act.
Authorized discussions with Myanmar and mission by Sen. Jim Webb to secure the release of an American held captive.
Nuclear arms agreements with India
Lord's Resistance Army Disarmament and Northern Uganda Recovery Act of 2009.
Nuclear arms agreements with Australia
Nuclear arms agreement with Russia.
Agreed with Switzerland to bolster tax information exchange.

And then there's OBL and Gaddafi.
 
2012-08-31 09:01:34 AM
Rice is the world's leading expert on foreign policy failures.
 
2012-08-31 09:03:13 AM
I always admired Condi. Sure, she was working for the bad guys but I think she's cool anyway. Like a Republican Boba Fett.
 
2012-08-31 09:03:36 AM
She was likely our biggest failure as foreign secretary and is in no position to lecture anyone.

I mean, her big area of expertise was supposed to be Russia, and Putin made a fool out of her.
 
2012-08-31 09:06:19 AM

EnviroDude: When you look at how things turned out in Egypt, if you are a pro-militant Muslim, it went very well.

/in other words, if you like Iran, you will love how the Muslim Brotherhood will run things there. Thanks Obama!


Hear that, guys? If we all vote Republican, they'll go obstruct somebody else's government for a while!
 
2012-08-31 09:07:05 AM
As recently as October 2010, Condi was supporting Obama's foreign policy. "Nothing in this president's methods suggests this president is other than a defender of America's interests."

// I wonder why they let her speak at BirferCon
 
2012-08-31 09:09:22 AM
Isn't foreign policy on the list of ten million things Mitt Romney has declared to be "off-the-table" for this election? I don't think we're even technically allowed to discuss it amongst ourselves.
 
2012-08-31 09:10:01 AM

EnviroDude: ghare: Bin Laden is dead, GM is alive. Under a Romney presidency, the opposite would have been true, according to Romney.

If the sole trophy from your foreign policy is killing OBL, then the trophy case is rather bare and embarrassing


As opposed to farking what, exactly? What trophy did the Bush/Cheney administration ever garner?

You, EnviroDude, are a sad and pathetic little man.
 
2012-08-31 09:10:11 AM

EnviroDude: When you look at how things turned out in Egypt, if you are a pro-militant Muslim, it went very well.


Yeah, things are just nuts over there. Israel invited Morsi for a visit the other day and it's likely he'll accept. What a madman.

But please, continue to lend support to dictators.
 
2012-08-31 09:11:25 AM

EnviroDude: When you look at how things turned out in Egypt, if you are a pro-militant Muslim, it went very well.

/in other words, if you like Iran, you will love how the Muslim Brotherhood will run things there. Thanks Obama!


Puff puff pass, man. Puff puff pass. Quit bogarting all the good shiat.
 
2012-08-31 09:11:57 AM
The smarter and stronger Rice

upload.wikimedia.org

One hell of a diplomat
 
2012-08-31 09:12:58 AM

Rev. Skarekroe: I always admired Condi. Sure, she was working for the bad guys but I think she's cool anyway. Like a Republican Boba Fett.


I'm sorry, why does everyone think Boba Fett is so cool?

He didn't capture Han Solo, Vader did. He merely transported the carbonite slab to Jabba. And then he dies like a biatch at the hands of a half blind guy and fell into a giant sand vagina. To be honest he was completely inept and useless.

So, yeah, I guess Condi kind of is like Boba.
 
2012-08-31 09:13:12 AM
if only i post one more refutation than this troll will surely see the light and stop throwing shiatposts onto the thread
 
2012-08-31 09:13:14 AM

Voiceofreason01: she must not care if she ever gets to run for President.


if she wants to run for President, we're going to need her birth certificate. everyone knows all black people are born in Africa and shipped over.
 
2012-08-31 09:14:15 AM

EnviroDude: When you look at how things turned out in Egypt, if you are a pro-militant Muslim, it went very well.

/in other words, if you like Iran, you will love how the Muslim Brotherhood will run things there. Thanks Obama!


I see you are endorsing a policy similar to that which led directly to the radicalization of Iran. Christ you are farking retarded.
 
2012-08-31 09:14:26 AM

EnviroDude: ghare: Bin Laden is dead, GM is alive. Under a Romney presidency, the opposite would have been true, according to Romney.

If the sole trophy from your foreign policy is killing OBL, then the trophy case is rather bare and embarrassing


It's seems a lot less embarrassing the Bush's.
 
2012-08-31 09:15:34 AM

Voiceofreason01: /Not only does Condi have the nerve to be both black and a woman but now she insists on being honest, contrary to the party line, she must not care if she ever gets to run for President


Republicans won't vote for a lesbian so a presidential run was never on the table.
 
2012-08-31 09:15:50 AM
I only like her for her ability to play the piano and her boots.
 
2012-08-31 09:16:14 AM
I loved the part of her speech where she was talking of her parents not being able to take her to the lunch counter at Woolworth's because OF THE PEOPLE IN THE ROOM SHE WAS SPEAKING TOO. She's a stupid coont. I can say that because I've never burned trillions of dollars and the lives of thousands of my countrymen in the wrong war. She's one of the greatest failures to ever live.
 
2012-08-31 09:17:04 AM

spcMike: I'm sorry, why does everyone think Boba Fett is so cool?


His backpack's got jets.
 
2012-08-31 09:17:36 AM

beta_plus: his ordering the assassination of an unarmed man in front of his family while violating the sovereign territory of a country that never attacked us


It's cute how you don't mention the name of that 'unarmed man'. I'll be sure to remember that you wish OBL was still alive.
 
2012-08-31 09:18:25 AM

sprawl15: if only i post one more refutation than this troll will surely see the light and stop throwing shiatposts onto the thread


More surprising that they haven't just blocked him already. Perhaps they're just hoping for another Nixon moment.
 
2012-08-31 09:20:06 AM

Tickle Mittens: I loved the part of her speech where she was talking of her parents not being able to take her to the lunch counter at Woolworth's because OF THE PEOPLE IN THE ROOM SHE WAS SPEAKING TOO.


That wasn't the most awkward part of that sentence.

"And on a personal note- a little girl grows up in Jim Crow Birmingham - the most segregated big city in America - her parents can't take her to a movie theater or a restaurant - but they make her believe that even though she can't have a hamburger at the Woolworth's lunch counter - she can be President of the United States and she becomes the Secretary of State

Yes, America has a way of making the impossible seem inevitable in retrospect.."
 
2012-08-31 09:20:39 AM

spcMike: He didn't capture Han Solo, Vader did


Vader didn't find Solo, Fett did.
 
2012-08-31 09:20:47 AM

Trapper439: EnviroDude: ghare: Bin Laden is dead, GM is alive. Under a Romney presidency, the opposite would have been true, according to Romney.

If the sole trophy from your foreign policy is killing OBL, then the trophy case is rather bare and embarrassing

As opposed to farking what, exactly? What trophy did the Bush/Cheney administration ever garner?


Well, they do have that full facial from the non-stop sucking of Israel's cock.
 
2012-08-31 09:21:18 AM

sprawl15: spcMike: I'm sorry, why does everyone think Boba Fett is so cool?

His backpack's got jets.


Cruisin' Mos Espa in his Delorean...
 
2012-08-31 09:21:31 AM

spcMike: I'm sorry, why does everyone think Boba Fett is so cool?


Boba Fett is established by Vader. He gets a specific verbal warning, as compared to an "I'm disappointed" force choking. After that, he sasses Vader; "He's no good to me dead."

/He also outmanuvers Han when he anticipates him hiding in the garbage dump, following him to Bespin, allowing Vader to cut him off.
 
2012-08-31 09:21:51 AM
only because she is also an authoritarian war monger who believes in the unitary executive. where have the actual liberals gone?
 
2012-08-31 09:22:06 AM

beta_plus: His greatest foreign policy triumph:

[pub.mathaba.net image 420x263]

Of course, that's only after his ordering the assassination of an unarmed man in front of his family while violating the sovereign territory of a country that never attacked us using intelligence gathered using torture.


Wait a minute, Osama Bin Laden is now getting sympathy from folks? Fark that. I'm pretty left of center, but this is one instance where I don't give a fark. OBL could have been killed holding an olive branch, white doves, and a box full of puppies and kitties in view of a bus of nuns and the Vienna Boy's Choir and I wouldn't be defending him. Sorry, I think you're pretty much alone with a fringe group on that.
 
2012-08-31 09:23:17 AM

spcMike: I'm sorry, why does everyone think Boba Fett is so cool?

He didn't capture Han Solo, Vader did. He merely transported the carbonite slab to Jabba. And then he dies like a biatch at the hands of a half blind guy and fell into a giant sand vagina. To be honest he was completely inept and useless.


Well, his "father" was the template for what became the Stormtroopers, worst shots in the galaxy and prone to being tricked by old men and their young boy toys.

To be fair, Jango Fett was pretty bad ass. He at least fought Obi-Wan to a stand still on the ground and in a space dogfight. And had he not gotten run over by the big monster in the arena, he might have been able to take Mace Windu down. His "son", on the other hand, and his genetic legacy, were pretty much a joke.

You know, kind of like the Bush family.
 
2012-08-31 09:24:31 AM

ramblinwreck: Wait a minute, Osama Bin Laden is now getting sympathy from folks? Fark that. I'm pretty left of center, but this is one instance where I don't give a fark. OBL could have been killed holding an olive branch, white doves, and a box full of puppies and kitties in view of a bus of nuns and the Vienna Boy's Choir and I wouldn't be defending him. Sorry, I think you're pretty much alone with a fringe group on that.


They won't give Obama anything. Even killing bin Laden with no US casualties. That just shows how rabidly partisan they are.
 
2012-08-31 09:24:36 AM

relcec: only because she is also an authoritarian war monger who believes in the unitary executive. where have the actual liberals gone?


We're here. We're just not projecting Bush's failings onto Obama they way you seem to be.

/bring up NDAA motherfarker, I dare you
 
2012-08-31 09:24:52 AM
Tickle Mittens: I loved the part of her speech where she was talking of her parents not being able to take her to the lunch counter at Woolworth's because OF THE PEOPLE IN THE ROOM SHE WAS SPEAKING TOO.

Hah! I completely missed that.
 
2012-08-31 09:28:34 AM
Considering Obama foreign policy is essentially a continuation of Bush foreign policy, it would be pretty surprising to see anyone from the previous administration chastise his efforts. There have been some subtle improvements and some not-so-subtle improvements, particularly in our dealings with Europe and our deference to the UN on matters of international security.

You know the Republicans are in trouble when their message seems to be that simultaneously we are weaker in the world while also being too aggressive in our pursuit of terrorists. They want foreign policy off the table because they don't have a good grasp of what their plank needs to be.
 
2012-08-31 09:29:08 AM
At Liar-palooza '12, did they give a video tribute to Osama bin Laden? They seem to love him so much.
 
2012-08-31 09:29:30 AM

beta_plus: ordering the assassination of an unarmed man in front of his family


I'm so sorry your BFF bin Laden is dead. You worthless piece of terrorist loving shiat.
 
2012-08-31 09:30:08 AM

Mugato: spcMike: He didn't capture Han Solo, Vader did

Vader didn't find Solo, Fett did.


Yeah, but are YOU gonna tell Vader he "didn't build that"?

// Vader's clearly a Republican
// also, Breckin Meyer's "Boba Fett and Han Solo in Carbonite" from Robot Chicken is amazing
 
2012-08-31 09:31:10 AM

Rocket To Russia: At Liar-palooza '12, did they give a video tribute to Osama bin Laden? They seem to love him so much.


At least they didn't have a massive circlejerk to videos of the twin towers being destroyed like they did last time around.
 
2012-08-31 09:37:53 AM
Why didn't she mention the whole thing about Obama telling the Russians: "We'll get this done when I get re-elected, just be cool for now, baby. B to the Bama is looking out for ya..."
 
2012-08-31 09:39:10 AM

Voiceofreason01: FTFA: "the Republicans charted a course of denial and obstruction from the day Mr. Obama was inaugurated, determined to deny him a second term by denying him any achievement, no matter the cost to the economy or American security"


/Not only does Condi have the nerve to be both black and a woman but now she insists on being honest, contrary to the party line, she must not care if she ever gets to run for President.


crow202.org
 
2012-08-31 09:39:40 AM

spcMike: Rev. Skarekroe: I always admired Condi. Sure, she was working for the bad guys but I think she's cool anyway. Like a Republican Boba Fett.

I'm sorry, why does everyone think Boba Fett is so cool?

He didn't capture Han Solo, Vader did. He merely transported the carbonite slab to Jabba. And then he dies like a biatch at the hands of a half blind guy and fell into a giant sand vagina. To be honest he was completely inept and useless.

So, yeah, I guess Condi kind of is like Boba.


I've wondered the same thing for years. The best explanation was that just mentioning his name scared the bejeezus out of Han Solo, so before people even saw him do his thing there was this expectation of badassery from him. We just happened to see Boba Fett on a bad day.
 
2012-08-31 09:40:50 AM

Tickle Mittens: spcMike: I'm sorry, why does everyone think Boba Fett is so cool?

Boba Fett is established by Vader. He gets a specific verbal warning, as compared to an "I'm disappointed" force choking. After that, he sasses Vader; "He's no good to me dead."

/He also outmanuvers Han when he anticipates him hiding in the garbage dump, following him to Bespin, allowing Vader to cut him off.


However, among the Bounty Hunters in the employ of the Empire, none is as cool as IG-88. Who had his consciousness implanted into the Death Star's control computer, unbeknownst to anyone but him. Had it not been destroyed, he had planned to use it to conquer the galaxy. I think step 1 was to blow up Corescent during the inevitable "We Totally Kicked Some Rebel Ass" parades.
 
2012-08-31 09:41:06 AM
Shaggy_C Considering Obama foreign policy is essentially a continuation of Bush foreign policy,



.....except with a much higher body count.
 
2012-08-31 09:42:33 AM

craigdamage: Shaggy_C Considering Obama foreign policy is essentially a continuation of Bush foreign policy,



.....except with a much higher body count.


LOL wut?
 
2012-08-31 09:45:08 AM

craigdamage: Shaggy_C Considering Obama foreign policy is essentially a continuation of Bush foreign policy,



.....except with a much higher body count.


Exactly how so? Please show how you came to this conclusion.
 
2012-08-31 09:45:47 AM

craigdamage: .....except with a much higher body count.


Is this a joke?
 
2012-08-31 09:45:51 AM

ramblinwreck: beta_plus: His greatest foreign policy triumph:

[pub.mathaba.net image 420x263]

Of course, that's only after his ordering the assassination of an unarmed man in front of his family while violating the sovereign territory of a country that never attacked us using intelligence gathered using torture.

Wait a minute, Osama Bin Laden is now getting sympathy from folks? Fark that. I'm pretty left of center, but this is one instance where I don't give a fark. OBL could have been killed holding an olive branch, white doves, and a box full of puppies and kitties in view of a bus of nuns and the Vienna Boy's Choir and I wouldn't be defending him. Sorry, I think you're pretty much alone with a fringe group on that.


It's the new GOP narrative. OBL was an OK guy, never hurt anybody. We should have nabbed him and plied him with McDonalds and kittens. Basically like this book from the 1950s:

Link

But instead of Hans the cute German kid, you would have Osama, the naive Saudi who would be smitten with a yummy cheeseburger and a shake.

It's amazing how the GOP tries to turn something good on it's head when they don't get their way. Bush couldn't get OBL, Ronnie Raygun couldn't get Qaddafi.
 
2012-08-31 09:50:43 AM

trotsky: ramblinwreck: beta_plus: His greatest foreign policy triumph:

[pub.mathaba.net image 420x263]

Of course, that's only after his ordering the assassination of an unarmed man in front of his family while violating the sovereign territory of a country that never attacked us using intelligence gathered using torture.

Wait a minute, Osama Bin Laden is now getting sympathy from folks? Fark that. I'm pretty left of center, but this is one instance where I don't give a fark. OBL could have been killed holding an olive branch, white doves, and a box full of puppies and kitties in view of a bus of nuns and the Vienna Boy's Choir and I wouldn't be defending him. Sorry, I think you're pretty much alone with a fringe group on that.

It's the new GOP narrative. OBL was an OK guy, never hurt anybody. We should have nabbed him and plied him with McDonalds and kittens. Basically like this book from the 1950s:

Link

But instead of Hans the cute German kid, you would have Osama, the naive Saudi who would be smitten with a yummy cheeseburger and a shake.

It's amazing how the GOP tries to turn something good on it's head when they don't get their way. Bush couldn't get OBL, Ronnie Raygun couldn't get Qaddafi.


And then Obama got both.

(Because he's the farking man, that's why.)
 
2012-08-31 09:51:03 AM

Eleke: spcMike: Rev. Skarekroe: I always admired Condi. Sure, she was working for the bad guys but I think she's cool anyway. Like a Republican Boba Fett.

I'm sorry, why does everyone think Boba Fett is so cool?

He didn't capture Han Solo, Vader did. He merely transported the carbonite slab to Jabba. And then he dies like a biatch at the hands of a half blind guy and fell into a giant sand vagina. To be honest he was completely inept and useless.

So, yeah, I guess Condi kind of is like Boba.

I've wondered the same thing for years. The best explanation was that just mentioning his name scared the bejeezus out of Han Solo, so before people even saw him do his thing there was this expectation of badassery from him. We just happened to see Boba Fett on a bad day.


I think most people like Boba Fett because, in his first real introduction, he was admonished for extreme measures by none other than Darth Vader himself.
 
2012-08-31 09:52:31 AM

qorkfiend: Eleke: spcMike: Rev. Skarekroe: I always admired Condi. Sure, she was working for the bad guys but I think she's cool anyway. Like a Republican Boba Fett.

I'm sorry, why does everyone think Boba Fett is so cool?

He didn't capture Han Solo, Vader did. He merely transported the carbonite slab to Jabba. And then he dies like a biatch at the hands of a half blind guy and fell into a giant sand vagina. To be honest he was completely inept and useless.

So, yeah, I guess Condi kind of is like Boba.

I've wondered the same thing for years. The best explanation was that just mentioning his name scared the bejeezus out of Han Solo, so before people even saw him do his thing there was this expectation of badassery from him. We just happened to see Boba Fett on a bad day.

I think most people like Boba Fett because, in his first real introduction, he was admonished for extreme measures by none other than Darth Vader himself.


Yet they continue to like him even though he was bested by a hole in the ground.
 
2012-08-31 09:55:18 AM

sprawl15: if only i post one more refutation than this troll will surely see the light and stop throwing shiatposts onto the thread


But, there's somebody wrong on the internet!

And they're doing it deliberately!

In order to get people to respond!

How the hell are people supposed to resist that?
 
2012-08-31 09:56:09 AM

Epoch_Zero: trotsky: ramblinwreck: beta_plus: His greatest foreign policy triumph:

[pub.mathaba.net image 420x263]

Of course, that's only after his ordering the assassination of an unarmed man in front of his family while violating the sovereign territory of a country that never attacked us using intelligence gathered using torture.

Wait a minute, Osama Bin Laden is now getting sympathy from folks? Fark that. I'm pretty left of center, but this is one instance where I don't give a fark. OBL could have been killed holding an olive branch, white doves, and a box full of puppies and kitties in view of a bus of nuns and the Vienna Boy's Choir and I wouldn't be defending him. Sorry, I think you're pretty much alone with a fringe group on that.

It's the new GOP narrative. OBL was an OK guy, never hurt anybody. We should have nabbed him and plied him with McDonalds and kittens. Basically like this book from the 1950s:

Link

But instead of Hans the cute German kid, you would have Osama, the naive Saudi who would be smitten with a yummy cheeseburger and a shake.

It's amazing how the GOP tries to turn something good on it's head when they don't get their way. Bush couldn't get OBL, Ronnie Raygun couldn't get Qaddafi.

And then Obama got both.

(Because he's the farking man, that's why.)


If you actually go and read the DoD and the Special Operations Command version of things, they were impressed with how Obama made the calls. In fact, and this is the best damn thing, one of the Admirals (might have been McRaven) said that this could have very well turned into Obama's Iran Hostage Raid had it failed.

But it didn't. The execution by the SEALs and the go order given by the President all worked in synch. And I bet the micromanagement was absent as well. Obama leads from behind; he's certainly not an empyty-farking-chair. He's just more subtle about it than the dick swingers like Cheney and Bush W.
 
2012-08-31 09:58:55 AM

spcMike: Rev. Skarekroe: I always admired Condi. Sure, she was working for the bad guys but I think she's cool anyway. Like a Republican Boba Fett.

I'm sorry, why does everyone think Boba Fett is so cool?

He didn't capture Han Solo, Vader did. He merely transported the carbonite slab to Jabba. And then he dies like a biatch at the hands of a half blind guy and fell into a giant sand vagina. To be honest he was completely inept and useless.

So, yeah, I guess Condi kind of is like Boba.


Boba Fett survived the Sarlac.
 
2012-08-31 09:59:56 AM

Epoch_Zero: craigdamage: Shaggy_C Considering Obama foreign policy is essentially a continuation of Bush foreign policy,



.....except with a much higher body count.

Exactly how so? Please show how you came to this conclusion.


OK, so all the deaths due to the arab spring or various other movements in the middle east over the past couple years are Obama's fault for not delivering US-style democracy to those countries. All those deaths combined are more than all the deaths of US servicemen in Iraq and Afghanistan.

See? Simple.

No holes in that logic, whatsoever!
 
2012-08-31 10:01:10 AM

theknuckler_33: beta_plus: his ordering the assassination of an unarmed man in front of his family while violating the sovereign territory of a country that never attacked us

It's cute how you don't mention the name of that 'unarmed man'. I'll be sure to remember that you wish OBL was still alive.


Or that the photo is unrelated to the article that he links to. In fact, there's no information at all on the source of the photo.
 
2012-08-31 10:01:31 AM

Epoch_Zero: qorkfiend: Eleke: spcMike: Rev. Skarekroe: I always admired Condi. Sure, she was working for the bad guys but I think she's cool anyway. Like a Republican Boba Fett.

I'm sorry, why does everyone think Boba Fett is so cool?

He didn't capture Han Solo, Vader did. He merely transported the carbonite slab to Jabba. And then he dies like a biatch at the hands of a half blind guy and fell into a giant sand vagina. To be honest he was completely inept and useless.

So, yeah, I guess Condi kind of is like Boba.

I've wondered the same thing for years. The best explanation was that just mentioning his name scared the bejeezus out of Han Solo, so before people even saw him do his thing there was this expectation of badassery from him. We just happened to see Boba Fett on a bad day.

I think most people like Boba Fett because, in his first real introduction, he was admonished for extreme measures by none other than Darth Vader himself.

Yet they continue to like him even though he was bested by a hole in the ground.


You forgot the extensive Extended Universe where Boba Fett was the baddest ass ever to be a bad ass motherfarker. The EU also killed Chewie. So take that with what you will.
 
2012-08-31 10:03:47 AM
fark dot com frontslash

sprawl15: if only i post one more refutation than this troll will surely see the light and stop throwing shiatposts onto the thread

 
2012-08-31 10:04:01 AM

trotsky: You forgot the extensive Extended Universe where Boba Fett was the baddest ass ever to be a bad ass motherfarker. The EU also killed Chewie. So take that with what you will.


And there are furry worms that absorb the Force and clones spell their names with extra silent vowels.
 
2012-08-31 10:04:55 AM

highbrow45: spcMike: Rev. Skarekroe: I always admired Condi. Sure, she was working for the bad guys but I think she's cool anyway. Like a Republican Boba Fett.

I'm sorry, why does everyone think Boba Fett is so cool?

He didn't capture Han Solo, Vader did. He merely transported the carbonite slab to Jabba. And then he dies like a biatch at the hands of a half blind guy and fell into a giant sand vagina. To be honest he was completely inept and useless.

So, yeah, I guess Condi kind of is like Boba.

Boba Fett survived the Sarlac.


Yeah, and I bet Condi's survived more than one sandy vagina.
 
2012-08-31 10:06:00 AM

Graffito: theknuckler_33: beta_plus: his ordering the assassination of an unarmed man in front of his family while violating the sovereign territory of a country that never attacked us

It's cute how you don't mention the name of that 'unarmed man'. I'll be sure to remember that you wish OBL was still alive.

Or that the photo is unrelated to the article that he links to. In fact, there's no information at all on the source of the photo.


"young-black-Libyan-taken-prisoner-by-rebels.jpg"

Don't you get it? Obama is racist against blacks because black people got caught up in a farking civil war that Obama got all involved in which was "Obama's war" and Obama is bad because of that... for starting another war. But he didn't do enough though, he should have made sure nothing bad happened in that civil war, so he should have done more. So, Obama is bad for starting his own personal war and then he's bad again for not doing it right.
 
2012-08-31 10:08:10 AM

trotsky: But it didn't. The execution by the SEALs and the go order given by the President all worked in synch. And I bet the micromanagement was absent as well.


As the planning meetings proceeded-the president and his aides often had a model of the compound before them-a critical point about a unilateral U.S. assault caught Obama's attention: How would these covert warriors return safely from the compound, especially if they were to encounter hostile Pakistani military forces? He noticed that in the initial planning the assault force was small. He asked McRaven if such a force could fight its way out if necessary.

McRaven had based the planning on an assumption that if his commandos were confronted by the Pakistanis, they would protect themselves without attempting to defeat the Pakistani forces, while waiting for the politicians in Washington and Islamabad to sort things out. He calculated that his team could hold off any Pakistani assault for one or two hours.

Obama nixed the idea of commandos hunkering down to await diplomatic rescue. He worried that the Navy SEALs conducting the mission could end up as hostages of the Pakistanis, and he told McRaven to ensure that the U.S. forces could escape the compound and return to safety, whether or not they encountered Pakistani resistance.

"Don't worry about keeping things calm with Pakistan," Obama said to McRaven. "Worry about getting out."

McRaven added additional forces; a second group of SEALs would be prepared to take on any Pakistani forces that might try to intervene.

(source)
 
2012-08-31 10:09:44 AM

Mugato: trotsky: You forgot the extensive Extended Universe where Boba Fett was the baddest ass ever to be a bad ass motherfarker. The EU also killed Chewie. So take that with what you will.

And there are furry worms that absorb the Force and clones spell their names with extra silent vowels.


If it didn't happen in the movies it didn't happen. I hate that retcon revisionist bullshiat.
 
2012-08-31 10:10:24 AM

sprawl15: trotsky: But it didn't. The execution by the SEALs and the go order given by the President all worked in synch. And I bet the micromanagement was absent as well.

As the planning meetings proceeded-the president and his aides often had a model of the compound before them-a critical point about a unilateral U.S. assault caught Obama's attention: How would these covert warriors return safely from the compound, especially if they were to encounter hostile Pakistani military forces? He noticed that in the initial planning the assault force was small. He asked McRaven if such a force could fight its way out if necessary.

McRaven had based the planning on an assumption that if his commandos were confronted by the Pakistanis, they would protect themselves without attempting to defeat the Pakistani forces, while waiting for the politicians in Washington and Islamabad to sort things out. He calculated that his team could hold off any Pakistani assault for one or two hours.

Obama nixed the idea of commandos hunkering down to await diplomatic rescue. He worried that the Navy SEALs conducting the mission could end up as hostages of the Pakistanis, and he told McRaven to ensure that the U.S. forces could escape the compound and return to safety, whether or not they encountered Pakistani resistance.

"Don't worry about keeping things calm with Pakistan," Obama said to McRaven. "Worry about getting out."

McRaven added additional forces; a second group of SEALs would be prepared to take on any Pakistani forces that might try to intervene.

(source)


Badass.
 
2012-08-31 10:11:05 AM
That was both scathing and accurate. When did the media find its balls?
 
2012-08-31 10:15:24 AM

sprawl15: trotsky: But it didn't. The execution by the SEALs and the go order given by the President all worked in synch. And I bet the micromanagement was absent as well.

As the planning meetings proceeded-the president and his aides often had a model of the compound before them-a critical point about a unilateral U.S. assault caught Obama's attention: How would these covert warriors return safely from the compound, especially if they were to encounter hostile Pakistani military forces? He noticed that in the initial planning the assault force was small. He asked McRaven if such a force could fight its way out if necessary.

McRaven had based the planning on an assumption that if his commandos were confronted by the Pakistanis, they would protect themselves without attempting to defeat the Pakistani forces, while waiting for the politicians in Washington and Islamabad to sort things out. He calculated that his team could hold off any Pakistani assault for one or two hours.

Obama nixed the idea of commandos hunkering down to await diplomatic rescue. He worried that the Navy SEALs conducting the mission could end up as hostages of the Pakistanis, and he told McRaven to ensure that the U.S. forces could escape the compound and return to safety, whether or not they encountered Pakistani resistance.

"Don't worry about keeping things calm with Pakistan," Obama said to McRaven. "Worry about getting out."

McRaven added additional forces; a second group of SEALs would be prepared to take on any Pakistani forces that might try to intervene.

(source)


Obviously a meticulously constructed libby-lib narrative. Everyone knows Obama was on a golf course (shooting triple bogies, no doubt), tried to stop the mission, and was overridden by heroic conservative warriors on the JCOS... you know, the ones that don't want gays in the military under any circumstances.
 
2012-08-31 10:17:56 AM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: relcec: only because she is also an authoritarian war monger who believes in the unitary executive. where have the actual liberals gone?

We're here. We're just not projecting Bush's failings onto Obama they way you seem to be.

/bring up NDAA motherfarker, I dare you


Please explain how bush is responsible for Obama revoking Habaes Corpus for U.S. citizens in the NDAA which was signed December 31, 2011, starting a war with Libya, and expanding the cyberwarfare program against Iran. the truth is you don't actually have a problem with authoritarianism and the development of a soul crushing police state, the ever expanding power of the presidency, or heavy handed arbitrary international interventionism.
you are a Democrat who pretends these things are harmful when Republicans are in office because only at that point does it become politically convenient. you and the millions of political fanboys just like you are a big reason why American has such a dangerous foreign policy.

Carl Levin (D) explaining to a fellow Democratic Senator from Illinois that the reason the section in the NDAA that said that indefinite detention provisions would not apply to u.s. citizens and lawful residents, and which had already passed committee and was in the bill, was removed was because the Obama administration requested its removal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya
 
2012-08-31 10:21:20 AM

theknuckler_33: Obviously a meticulously constructed libby-lib narrative. Everyone knows Obama was on a golf course (shooting triple bogies, no doubt), tried to stop the mission, and was overridden by heroic conservative warriors on the JCOS... you know, the ones that don't want gays in the military under any circumstances.


Yeah right, a colourd who isn't Tiger Woods allowed on a golf course without a tray. Pfft.
 
2012-08-31 10:22:56 AM
Boba Fett became a badass when he said,"He's no good to me dead."

And how did Vader respond?

"The Empire will compensate you, if he dies. Put him in."

Not, "What's good for you is what I decide." Or, "The good of the Empire is all that matters." Or, "Dead or alive, you will deal with it."

No, Straight up, if Han dies, Vader'll make sure Fett gets paid extra, because he is such a badass that even Vader didn't want on his bad side.

And he survived the Sarlacc, twice.
 
2012-08-31 10:24:05 AM

relcec: Please explain how bush is responsible for Obama revoking Habaes Corpus for U.S. citizens in the NDAA which was signed December 31, 2011, starting a war with Libya


The NDAA signed December 31, 2011 was responsible for starting a war with Libya that ran from March 19, 2011 to October 31, 2011.

img717.imageshack.us
 
2012-08-31 10:27:09 AM

EnviroDude: When you look at how things turned out in Egypt, if you are a pro-militant Muslim, it went very well.


Sometimes, in a democracy, the other guy wins.

Why do you hate democracy?
 
2012-08-31 10:30:12 AM

Epoch_Zero: qorkfiend: Eleke: spcMike: Rev. Skarekroe: I always admired Condi. Sure, she was working for the bad guys but I think she's cool anyway. Like a Republican Boba Fett.

I'm sorry, why does everyone think Boba Fett is so cool?

He didn't capture Han Solo, Vader did. He merely transported the carbonite slab to Jabba. And then he dies like a biatch at the hands of a half blind guy and fell into a giant sand vagina. To be honest he was completely inept and useless.

So, yeah, I guess Condi kind of is like Boba.

I've wondered the same thing for years. The best explanation was that just mentioning his name scared the bejeezus out of Han Solo, so before people even saw him do his thing there was this expectation of badassery from him. We just happened to see Boba Fett on a bad day.

I think most people like Boba Fett because, in his first real introduction, he was admonished for extreme measures by none other than Darth Vader himself.

Yet they continue to like him even though he was bested by a hole in the ground.


Nah. He was bested by Luke Skywalker, with a bit of luck from Han Solo, which just happened to cause him to fall into the hole in the ground (that had teeth and a digestive tract).
 
2012-08-31 10:31:44 AM

relcec: you and the millions of political fanboys just like you are a big reason why American has such a dangerous foreign policy.


Yep, those damn libs and their never ending quest to conquer the Earth with the US military regardless of cost and kidnap their own citizens. Meanwhile, Republicans protest the wars and strive for more domestic spending and infrastructure.

To quote Barney Frank addressing a young woman accusing the jewish man of enacting Nazi-inspired laws "On what planet do you spend the majority of your time?"

There was immediate backlash in the liberal and democratic communities about the continuation of Bush policy. There was no encouragement or gleeful adoption, as you claim.
 
2012-08-31 10:33:07 AM

xanadian: EnviroDude: When you look at how things turned out in Egypt, if you are a pro-militant Muslim, it went very well.

Sometimes, in a democracy, the other guy wins.

Why do you hate democracy?


Actually I think in this case "the other guy" was a Mubarak supporter.
 
2012-08-31 10:41:06 AM

Epoch_Zero: relcec: you and the millions of political fanboys just like you are a big reason why American has such a dangerous foreign policy.

Yep, those damn libs and their never ending quest to conquer the Earth with the US military regardless of cost and kidnap their own citizens. Meanwhile, Republicans protest the wars and strive for more domestic spending and infrastructure.

To quote Barney Frank addressing a young woman accusing the jewish man of enacting Nazi-inspired laws "On what planet do you spend the majority of your time?"

There was immediate backlash in the liberal and democratic communities about the continuation of Bush policy. There was no encouragement or gleeful adoption, as you claim.


I should ask on what planet do you spend the majority of your time?

Wednesday, Feb 8, 2012 10:13 AM CST
Repulsive Progressive Hypocrisy
A new poll shows deep support among liberals for the very Bush/Cheney policies they once pretended to despise

By Glenn Greenwald
http://www.salon.com/2012/02/08/repulsive_progressive_hypocrisy/


Condi while having retarded and dangerous views, is at least being consistent. I can't even say that for most of you folks. The majority of you people condition your support for these policies almost completely on the party affiliation of the state actor that undertakes them.
 
2012-08-31 10:48:20 AM

Epoch_Zero: craigdamage: Shaggy_C Considering Obama foreign policy is essentially a continuation of Bush foreign policy,



.....except with a much higher body count.

Exactly how so? Please show how you came to this conclusion.


It took over 4000 American lives and over a trillion dollars to tip over Saddam Hussein and completely destabilize the middle east.

It cost us one helicopter and a bullet to kill bin Laden, and the rest of his asshole friends seem to have an affinity for Helfire missiles and Predator drones.
 
2012-08-31 10:51:47 AM

sprawl15: relcec: Please explain how bush is responsible for Obama revoking Habaes Corpus for U.S. citizens in the NDAA which was signed December 31, 2011, starting a war with Libya

The NDAA signed December 31, 2011 was responsible for starting a war with Libya that ran from March 19, 2011 to October 31, 2011.


I was primarily thinking about how the Habeus Corpus bit reclec's going on about was added to the NDAA by congressional Republicans as a poison pill and passed with a veto proof majority but pointing out his poor recollection of the order of events doesn't hurt.

reclec: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/12/31/statement-presid ent-hr-1540
 
2012-08-31 10:53:37 AM

relcec: Wednesday, Feb 8, 2012 10:13 AM CST
Repulsive Progressive Hypocrisy
A new poll shows deep support among liberals for the very Bush/Cheney policies they once pretended to despise
By Glenn Greenwald
http://www.salon.com/2012/02/08/repulsive_progressive_hypocrisy/


"a new Washington Post/ABC News poll today demonstrates..."

nubian please
 
2012-08-31 10:59:59 AM

relcec: Epoch_Zero: relcec: you and the millions of political fanboys just like you are a big reason why American has such a dangerous foreign policy.

Yep, those damn libs and their never ending quest to conquer the Earth with the US military regardless of cost and kidnap their own citizens. Meanwhile, Republicans protest the wars and strive for more domestic spending and infrastructure.

To quote Barney Frank addressing a young woman accusing the jewish man of enacting Nazi-inspired laws "On what planet do you spend the majority of your time?"

There was immediate backlash in the liberal and democratic communities about the continuation of Bush policy. There was no encouragement or gleeful adoption, as you claim.

I should ask on what planet do you spend the majority of your time?

Wednesday, Feb 8, 2012 10:13 AM CST
Repulsive Progressive Hypocrisy
A new poll shows deep support among liberals for the very Bush/Cheney policies they once pretended to despise
By Glenn Greenwald
http://www.salon.com/2012/02/08/repulsive_progressive_hypocrisy/


Condi while having retarded and dangerous views, is at least being consistent. I can't even say that for most of you folks. The majority of you people condition your support for these policies almost completely on the party affiliation of the state actor that undertakes them.


From your link:
"A new Washington Post-ABC News poll shows that Obama, who campaigned on a pledge to close the brig at Guantanamo Bay and to change national security policies he criticized as inconsistent with U.S. law and values, has little to fear politically for failing to live up to all of those promises."

Perhaps due to the Republicans being responsible for the continued existence of Guantanamo, having filibustered all attempts to close it.

Going further, your article - an op-ed, btw - does not mention anything other than the Obama administration continuing the policy of domestic wiretapping, and avoids the backlash when he did this:

Warning: Site design from Geocities circa 1999, eesh.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/26/1086488/-21-reasons-why-I-w il l-never-again-vote-for-Obama
http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2012/04/20/the-ever-expanding-surve il lance-state-that-has-grown-under-obama/

Going forward, from your article:
"Fully 77 percent of liberal Democrats endorse the use of drones, meaning that Obama is unlikely to suffer any political consequences as a result of his policy in this election year."

Not putting American lives in danger by using drones instead of sending in wave after wave of infantry? Good god, man! How.... pragmatic.

FTFA: "
Support for drone strikes against suspected terrorists stays high, dropping only somewhat when respondents are asked specifically about targeting American citizens living overseas, as was the case with Anwar al-Awlaki, the Yemeni American killed in September in a drone strike in northern Yemen."

Al-Aulaqi was an Al-Queda recruiter and was promoted to "regional Commander" inside that organization. He was a terrorist with clear ties to terrorist bombings and was already being tried in absentia by the Yemenis, who wanted him dead or alive.

His American citizenship is meaningless in this context, as we kill domestic terrorists as well.



I hope you stretched before all this reaching.
 
2012-08-31 11:04:43 AM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: I was primarily thinking about how the Habeus Corpus bit reclec's going on about was added to the NDAA


You're already a few steps beyond where you should throw the bullshiat flag.

There is - and never was - a suspension of Habeus Corpus for American citizens after Hamdi v. Rumsfeld. There was only indefinite military detainment, and that was already allowed under the 9/11 AUMF.
 
2012-08-31 11:06:16 AM

sprawl15: There isn't


FTFM
 
2012-08-31 11:06:38 AM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: That was both scathing and accurate. When did the media find its balls?


that's one opinion piece in the NY times. wake me when CNN or another network actually calls these assholes out on their brazen mendacity.

but, yeah, it's a start.
 
2012-08-31 11:07:42 AM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: sprawl15: relcec: Please explain how bush is responsible for Obama revoking Habaes Corpus for U.S. citizens in the NDAA which was signed December 31, 2011, starting a war with Libya

The NDAA signed December 31, 2011 was responsible for starting a war with Libya that ran from March 19, 2011 to October 31, 2011.

I was primarily thinking about how the Habeus Corpus bit reclec's going on about was added to the NDAA by congressional Republicans as a poison pill and passed with a veto proof majority but pointing out his poor recollection of the order of events doesn't hurt.

reclec: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/12/31/statement-presid ent-hr-1540




so this is why you dared me to bring up the NDAA? you were gonna go all out and hit me with an obama press release?

just tell me straight out please, it is your contention that Democratic Senator Carl Levin is LYING on the Senate floor when he says that the portion of the bill specifically prohibiting the use of the NDAA on American citizens and lawful u.s. residents? and you claim as evidence for this is Obama's personal press release signing statement?


you are either doing a piss poor job of attempting camouflage and obfuscate what we all know the president did,
or you really have allowed your delusions to flourish to impressive levels in order to tamp down cognitive dissonance created by maintaining personal and undying fealty to your political hero who unfortunately for you happens all too frequently advance political policies that you claim to abhor.


Carl Levin (D) explaining to a fellow Democratic Senator from Illinois that the reason the section in the NDAA that said that indefinite detention provisions would not apply to u.s. citizens and lawful residents, and which had already passed committee and was in the bill, was removed was because the Obama administration requested its removal.
 
2012-08-31 11:08:28 AM

sprawl15: Monkeyhouse Zendo: I was primarily thinking about how the Habeus Corpus bit reclec's going on about was added to the NDAA

You're already a few steps beyond where you should throw the bullshiat flag.

There is - and never was - a suspension of Habeus Corpus for American citizens after Hamdi v. Rumsfeld. There was only indefinite military detainment, and that was already allowed under the 9/11 AUMF.


Yeah, that's why I linked the signing statement. I didn't feel like typing all that out.
 
2012-08-31 11:12:02 AM

Shaggy_C: Considering Obama foreign policy is essentially a continuation of Bush foreign policy, it would be pretty surprising to see anyone from the previous administration chastise his efforts. There have been some subtle improvements and some not-so-subtle improvements, particularly in our dealings with Europe and our deference to the UN on matters of international security.

You know the Republicans are in trouble when their message seems to be that simultaneously we are weaker in the world while also being too aggressive in our pursuit of terrorists. They want foreign policy off the table because they don't have a good grasp of what their plank needs to be.


They are probably embarrassed to admit to their base that their policy would have to be pretty much identical to Obama's.
 
2012-08-31 11:13:03 AM

relcec: so this is why you dared me to bring up the NDAA? you were gonna go all out and hit me with an obama press release?


No, I had something come up at work and don't have the time to address your derp at the moment so I linked to a brief summary of why the brouhaha over the NDAA is bullshiat manufactured by congressional republicans. I'm sorry I didn't spell it out for you but I don't have time to spoonfeed you at the moment.
 
2012-08-31 11:13:47 AM
Wasn't Ms. Rice the person responsible for preventing a war with Iraq?
 
2012-08-31 11:14:33 AM

beta_plus: His greatest foreign policy triumph:



Of course, that's only after his ordering the assassination of an unarmed man in front of his family while violating the sovereign territory of a country that never attacked us using intelligence gathered using torture.


I'm sure you know that a period of months passed between the last time KSM was waterboarded and the date when he disclosed information verifying the courier, correct? You are also aware that he was asked about said courier during waterboarding sessions, during which time he maintained that he never heard of the guy before. The most generous interpretation of this is that torture is the ultimate good cop/bad cop; after all, you got the information after you had waterboarded the guy, that obviously loosened the pickle jar for more standard interrogation practices to work, right? I mean, it's not like you weren't aware that former CIA interrogators will tell you that being able to get the person to believe you are empathizing with them.

I assume you know this because I've corrected you on it before, but you simply must have forgotten it.
 
2012-08-31 11:18:04 AM

Foundling: Wasn't Ms. Rice the person responsible for preventing a war with Iraq?


well, she was the one responsible for keeping us safe from al qaeda. yep, she did a bang-up job on that front...
 
2012-08-31 11:19:16 AM

Epoch_Zero: relcec: Epoch_Zero: relcec: you and the millions of political fanboys just like you are a big reason why American has such a dangerous foreign policy.

Yep, those damn libs and their never ending quest to conquer the Earth with the US military regardless of cost and kidnap their own citizens. Meanwhile, Republicans protest the wars and strive for more domestic spending and infrastructure.

To quote Barney Frank addressing a young woman accusing the jewish man of enacting Nazi-inspired laws "On what planet do you spend the majority of your time?"

There was immediate backlash in the liberal and democratic communities about the continuation of Bush policy. There was no encouragement or gleeful adoption, as you claim.

I should ask on what planet do you spend the majority of your time?

Wednesday, Feb 8, 2012 10:13 AM CST
Repulsive Progressive Hypocrisy
A new poll shows deep support among liberals for the very Bush/Cheney policies they once pretended to despise
By Glenn Greenwald
http://www.salon.com/2012/02/08/repulsive_progressive_hypocrisy/


Condi while having retarded and dangerous views, is at least being consistent. I can't even say that for most of you folks. The majority of you people condition your support for these policies almost completely on the party affiliation of the state actor that undertakes them.

From your link:
"A new Washington Post-ABC News poll shows that Obama, who campaigned on a pledge to close the brig at Guantanamo Bay and to change national security policies he criticized as inconsistent with U.S. law and values, has little to fear politically for failing to live up to all of those promises."

Perhaps due to the Republicans being responsible for the continued existence of Guantanamo, having filibustered all attempts to close it.

Going further, your article - an op-ed, btw - does not mention anything other than the Obama administration continuing the policy of domestic wiretapping, and avoids the backlash when he did this:

Warning: Site ...


wait, do you actually think that when you personally argue that obama's adoption of bush war on terror policies are fully justified by circumstance that you are actually providing a counter argument to the contention that liberals have completely flip flopped on these core issues of authoritarianism and presidential overreach at home and hyper aggressive and arbitrary war making abroad and which you personally and vociferously disagreed with just a few moments ago?

god damn you people are stupid. your most effective form of *argumentation* is obviously repeating well worn fark political memes and cliches. I recommend you stick with those next time brainiac.
 
2012-08-31 11:22:17 AM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: relcec: so this is why you dared me to bring up the NDAA? you were gonna go all out and hit me with an obama press release?

No, I had something come up at work and don't have the time to address your derp at the moment so I linked to a brief summary of why the brouhaha over the NDAA is bullshiat manufactured by congressional republicans. I'm sorry I didn't spell it out for you but I don't have time to spoonfeed you at the moment.



ahhh, gym 26 minutes.
hehe.
I'll be sure to never again ever cross you when you next warn me about your rhetorical prowess!
 
2012-08-31 11:27:45 AM

relcec: Monkeyhouse Zendo: relcec: so this is why you dared me to bring up the NDAA? you were gonna go all out and hit me with an obama press release?

No, I had something come up at work and don't have the time to address your derp at the moment so I linked to a brief summary of why the brouhaha over the NDAA is bullshiat manufactured by congressional republicans. I'm sorry I didn't spell it out for you but I don't have time to spoonfeed you at the moment.


ahhh, gym 26 minutes.
hehe.
I'll be sure to never again ever cross you when you next warn me about your rhetorical prowess!


Nope, just called having a job
 
2012-08-31 11:34:20 AM
there is a way out that I couldn't possibly argue against. you could just say yes obama is an authoritarian douchebag but you prefer him to the authoritarian douchebag alternative. what am I going to do then, argue that romney isn't an authoritarian douchebag? that would probably go about as well as this went for you.

and I hate Romney anyway. I'm pretty sure I've never once defended him on anything ever here at fark, even the ridiculous stuff. my indictment of Obama has just about as much to do with my contempt for you hypocritical and unreasonably self-assured pricks personally as my desire that the reasonable progressive ideas that I agree with that are shut out of the democratic party by republican light democrats like obama and thus the political conversation get a hearing somehow.

I know Romney will be a horrible president on just about everything just about everything just as Obama is. the only difference is Romney would be a big improvement on immigration while also a horrible step back on creating a rational healthcare system someday. they are both almost equally awful for this country. both sides are bad, do whatever you want because we are f*cked either way.
 
2012-08-31 11:42:14 AM

beta_plus: His greatest foreign policy triumph:

[pub.mathaba.net image 420x263]

Of course, that's only after his ordering the assassination of an unarmed man in front of his family while violating the sovereign territory of a country that never attacked us using intelligence gathered using torture.


Well, I think it's finally time that you find my ignore list, fark face.
 
2012-08-31 12:01:55 PM

PanicMan: Mugato: trotsky: You forgot the extensive Extended Universe where Boba Fett was the baddest ass ever to be a bad ass motherfarker. The EU also killed Chewie. So take that with what you will.

And there are furry worms that absorb the Force and clones spell their names with extra silent vowels.

If it didn't happen in the movies it didn't happen. I hate that retcon revisionist bullshiat.


The only ones I ever thought should be included was the Zahn trilogy. Everything else is crap.
 
2012-08-31 12:07:04 PM
an extraordinary reinvention of history - that his party rallied behind President Obama when he won in 2008, hoping that he would succeed.

Yeah no shiat. That part killed me too. We really wanted him to succeed but he didn't. Bullshiat. Man I hope Obama calls him out on that claim.

Also, subby, it wasn't just limited to Condollezza Rice. If you listened to all of the speeches, in general no one gave any specifics. We'll see if the Dems do it any better but Romney's speech summed up was "Obama is bad, I'm not Obama (implying I will do better), therefore vote for me." How will he do better? He didn't say. What will he do differently? He didn't say. But he will fix the economy. How will he fix the economy? Didn't say.
 
2012-08-31 12:10:48 PM

relcec: they are both almost equally awful for this country


You really haven't looked at either Ryan's or Romney's tax plans, have you.
Because, really, one side is a LOT worse for the country than the other.
 
2012-08-31 12:12:49 PM
Obviously she can't since the Obama White House just took the Bush foreign policy outline, made a few changes and called it theirs.
 
2012-08-31 12:16:26 PM

Cinaed: relcec: they are both almost equally awful for this country

You really haven't looked at either Ryan's or Romney's tax plans, have you.
Because, really, one side is a LOT worse for the country than the other.


You have to admit, when the best the partisan hacks on the right can muster is "both sides are equally bad" you know you've won the argument. They don't even bother arguing that Republcians are good.
 
2012-08-31 12:16:29 PM

cameroncrazy1984: xanadian: EnviroDude: When you look at how things turned out in Egypt, if you are a pro-militant Muslim, it went very well.

Sometimes, in a democracy, the other guy wins.

Why do you hate democracy?

Actually I think in this case "the other guy" was a Mubarak supporter.


So, even the Egyptians are faced with choosing the lesser of 2 evils. ;)
 
2012-08-31 12:17:23 PM

lennavan: How will he do better? He didn't say. What will he do differently? He didn't say. But he will fix the economy. How will he fix the economy? Didn't say.


Maybe they saw that Obama won in 2008 on a similar message and thought "It's just crazy enough it just might work again."
 
2012-08-31 12:17:52 PM

EnviroDude: When you look at how things turned out in Egypt, if you are a pro-militant Muslim, it went very well.

/in other words, if you like Iran, you will love how the Muslim Brotherhood will run things there. Thanks Obama!


So it would have been better for us to invade and force them to vote the way we wanted them to? That's your idea of better foreign policy?
 
2012-08-31 12:20:12 PM

ManRay: lennavan: How will he do better? He didn't say. What will he do differently? He didn't say. But he will fix the economy. How will he fix the economy? Didn't say.

Maybe they saw that Obama won in 2008 on a similar message and thought "It's just crazy enough it just might work again."


Tell me again about Obama's broken promises if, as you just claimed, he didn't actually make any.

// Emptysuit Americadestroyerbama
 
2012-08-31 12:24:45 PM
So this means liberals agree with Bush's foreign policy now?
 
2012-08-31 12:28:40 PM

Gyrfalcon: EnviroDude: When you look at how things turned out in Egypt, if you are a pro-militant Muslim, it went very well.

/in other words, if you like Iran, you will love how the Muslim Brotherhood will run things there. Thanks Obama!

So it would have been better for us to invade and force them to vote the way we wanted them to? That's your idea of better foreign policy?


Considering the content's of the voter ID laws and who they target, and a host of other authoritarian style domestic polices their idea of better domestic policy is quite similar.

So basicaly yes, yes is the answer to your question. Apparently they haven't learned from the various regimes we propped up in South America, the debacle that was putting the Shah up in Iran, etc.

/you can try to ignore blowback as much as you want, it still exists and we are paying the piper.
 
2012-08-31 12:30:42 PM

ManRay: lennavan: How will he do better? He didn't say. What will he do differently? He didn't say. But he will fix the economy. How will he fix the economy? Didn't say.

Maybe they saw that Obama won in 2008 on a similar message and thought "It's just crazy enough it just might work again."


Obama actually gave specifics, dipshiat. I know all you remember is "Hope and Change" but there were actual policy proposals back then. He actually promised to increase the troops in Afghanistan for instance, so when you were super poutraged at his broken promise for increasing troops in Afghanistan, the rest of us were like "yeah, you did say you'd do that."
 
2012-08-31 12:34:12 PM

lennavan: ManRay: lennavan: How will he do better? He didn't say. What will he do differently? He didn't say. But he will fix the economy. How will he fix the economy? Didn't say.

Maybe they saw that Obama won in 2008 on a similar message and thought "It's just crazy enough it just might work again."

Obama actually gave specifics, dipshiat. I know all you remember is "Hope and Change" but there were actual policy proposals back then. He actually promised to increase the troops in Afghanistan for instance, so when you were super poutraged at his broken promise for increasing troops in Afghanistan, the rest of us were like "yeah, you did say you'd do that."


He also stated he would go after Bin Laden if he was in Pakistan. McCain and the Republicans practically shiat the bed about pissing off an ally. Obama has an extremely good record relative to other politicians for following through, despite all the deliberate obstructionism.
 
2012-08-31 12:34:46 PM

lennavan: Obama actually gave specifics, dipshiat. I know all you remember is "Hope and Change" but there were actual policy proposals back then. He actually promised to increase the troops in Afghanistan for instance, so when you were super poutraged at his broken promise for increasing troops in Afghanistan, the rest of us were like "yeah, you did say you'd do that."


I'm getting a lot of mileage out of this today.

Obama's 2008 nomination acceptance speech at the DNC, cntl+f for "let me spell out exactly what that change would mean if I am president".
 
2012-08-31 12:36:29 PM

relcec: there is a way out that I couldn't possibly argue against. you could just say yes obama is an authoritarian douchebag but you prefer him to the authoritarian douchebag alternative. what am I going to do then, argue that romney isn't an authoritarian douchebag? that would probably go about as well as this went for you.

and I hate Romney anyway. I'm pretty sure I've never once defended him on anything ever here at fark, even the ridiculous stuff. my indictment of Obama has just about as much to do with my contempt for you hypocritical and unreasonably self-assured pricks personally as my desire that the reasonable progressive ideas that I agree with that are shut out of the democratic party by republican light democrats like obama and thus the political conversation get a hearing somehow.

I know Romney will be a horrible president on just about everything just about everything just as Obama is. the only difference is Romney would be a big improvement on immigration while also a horrible step back on creating a rational healthcare system someday. they are both almost equally awful for this country. both sides are bad, do whatever you want because we are f*cked either way.


I get what you're saying in that you don't think Obama is any less of an authoritarian douchebag than Bush was, and so all of those who were against Bush's authoritarian policies should also be against what you see as Obama's authoritarian policies. To some extent, I agree with you. However, I don't personally see the policies that you cite as authoritarian extremes.

For example, you bring up the NDAA, specifically 1021 and 1022, which supposedly allow for military detention of civilians. Now, when this was first being fought over, the liberal wing of the Senate tried to get an amendment passed that would clarify what was going on, but were unable to do so. Instead, they eventually compromised on the language that states basically "this changes nothing from what we've done in the past." Now, Republicans (and I'm guessing you as well) think that this means that indefinite detention is legal, while Democrats (and myself) think that this means the opposite. You'd have to get into cases like Hamdi v. Rumsfeld and start splitting those hairs before you found the specific nuances of what the law is. Personally, I don't blame Obama for signing this bill, as I believe that detention wasn't allowed previously and will continue to not be allowed.

Now, you've also made references to the Osama mission and the drone strikes carried out on Obama's watch, as well as military action in Libya. These are definitely aggressive foreign actions against other governments and forces, but I'm not sure that they weren't warranted. For example, I, and many other Democrats that I know, have always felt that invading Afghanistan, while poorly executed, was not an incorrect response to 9/11. It wasn't a disagreement with Bush's overall policy of anti-terrorism that I disagreed with, but his specific implementation of that policy. In other words, I've always thought we should get Bin Laden, but I was pissed at Bush for being so terrible at it, not to mention the lies that took us into Iraq.

Now, Obama's successes in this area are exactly what I would have wished for a decade ago. He has identified foreign policy goals that I support (like killing Osama or freedom for Libya) and has accomplished them with honesty to the public, minimum military presence, international support, and specifically targeted goals. While Bush's foreign policy was using howitzers to kill houseflies, usually by aiming the howitzer in the wrong direction, Obama has been using scalpels to remove melanomas. You might still disagree with his foreign policy goals or his means of accomplishing them, but I don't think it's hypocritical to be happier with the way Obama has approached them compared to Bush.

Now, on the home front, he's fought tons of obstructionism and backlash from the right, which has led to many disappointments for me. I don't think he's actively working against any of the goals which he campaigned on, however, and except for a few areas, I believe that he will continue to work towards those goals. And even if he fails, or screws up, the situation would still be much worse if the Republicans were to succeed. Ideally, in my mind, we'd have a single payer option, the Bush tax cuts on the highest bracket would have been repealed, the pentagon's budget would have been slashed, GITMO would have been closed, capital gains taxes would be much higher, tougher financial regulation would have been enacted, additional infrastructure spending would be approved, intellectual property laws would have been reformed in favor of less corporate power, and DOMA would have been completely repealed. I believe that Obama will work towards some or all of those goals, whether he accomplishes them or not, while Romney would be completely opposed to all of them. 

/holy wall of text batman
//tl;dr: Calling Obama supporters hypocrites re: foreign policy ignores differences in goals, methods, and results between Bush and Obama
 
2012-08-31 12:58:45 PM

relcec: there is a way out that I couldn't possibly argue against. you could just say yes obama is an authoritarian douchebag but you prefer him to the authoritarian douchebag alternative. what am I going to do then, argue that romney isn't an authoritarian douchebag? that would probably go about as well as this went for you.

and I hate Romney anyway. I'm pretty sure I've never once defended him on anything ever here at fark, even the ridiculous stuff. my indictment of Obama has just about as much to do with my contempt for you hypocritical and unreasonably self-assured pricks personally as my desire that the reasonable progressive ideas that I agree with that are shut out of the democratic party by republican light democrats like obama and thus the political conversation get a hearing somehow.

I know Romney will be a horrible president on just about everything just about everything just as Obama is. the only difference is Romney would be a big improvement on immigration while also a horrible step back on creating a rational healthcare system someday. they are both almost equally awful for this country. both sides are bad, do whatever you want because we are f*cked either way.


So you are sitting this one out?
 
2012-08-31 01:03:07 PM

relcec: the only difference is Romney would be a big improvement on immigration while also a horrible step back on creating a rational healthcare system someday. they are both almost equally awful for this country.


You gotta be shiatting me. I mean, you're completely wrong about Obama on immigration, unless you're pro-illegal immigrants. I mean literally you support illegal immigration. But we'll ignore that. However bad you totally imagine Obama is on immigration, you think the issue of immigration is anywhere near as relevant as health care? It's okay to have a health care system a lot of people don't have access to because they can't afford, so long as we're keepin the mexicans out or what?
 
2012-08-31 02:09:55 PM

relcec: the only difference is Romney would be a big improvement on immigration


I understand where a reasonable person might think that Romney's stance on immigration is maybe harsher than Obama's if they have only really pulled his position from his website and not what he says.

Romney is a question mark for every position he has implied. I say implied, because he hasn't taken one explicitly. Well, he'll create 12mm jobs in his first term, so he has low expectations (really, that's what, 250k a month?).

I can understand voting FOR someone other than Obama, but simply voting AGAINST Obama isn't going to work any better for anit-Obama people than it did for anti-Bush people in 2004.
 
2012-08-31 03:24:34 PM

EnviroDude: ghare: Bin Laden is dead, GM is alive. Under a Romney presidency, the opposite would have been true, according to Romney.

If the sole trophy from your foreign policy is killing OBL, then the trophy case is rather bare and embarrassing


Are you going to repeat that endlessly between now and November? Because that would be embarrassing.
 
2012-08-31 06:12:39 PM

Rev. Skarekroe: I always admired Condi. Sure, she was working for the bad guys but I think she's cool anyway. Like a Republican Boba Fett.


Actually she was pretty much useless. Check out Princess Sparkle Pony's take on her.
 
2012-09-01 12:13:37 AM

PanicMan: Mugato: trotsky: You forgot the extensive Extended Universe where Boba Fett was the baddest ass ever to be a bad ass motherfarker. The EU also killed Chewie. So take that with what you will.

And there are furry worms that absorb the Force and clones spell their names with extra silent vowels.

If it didn't happen in the movies it didn't happen. I hate that retcon revisionist bullshiat.


How is it a retcon when it occurs after the movie events? The EU is a continuation of the saga, not a remake.
 
2012-09-01 01:19:21 AM

Keizer_Ghidorah: PanicMan: Mugato: trotsky: You forgot the extensive Extended Universe where Boba Fett was the baddest ass ever to be a bad ass motherfarker. The EU also killed Chewie. So take that with what you will.

And there are furry worms that absorb the Force and clones spell their names with extra silent vowels.

If it didn't happen in the movies it didn't happen. I hate that retcon revisionist bullshiat.

How is it a retcon when it occurs after the movie events? The EU is a continuation of the saga, not a remake.


The EU was created to fill up the holes and explain all the continuity errors in the movies. What it sounds like is, somebody doesn't know what a "retcon" is; but the point is still valid. Imo, of course.
 
2012-09-01 01:58:08 AM

Gyrfalcon: Keizer_Ghidorah: PanicMan: Mugato: trotsky: You forgot the extensive Extended Universe where Boba Fett was the baddest ass ever to be a bad ass motherfarker. The EU also killed Chewie. So take that with what you will.

And there are furry worms that absorb the Force and clones spell their names with extra silent vowels.

If it didn't happen in the movies it didn't happen. I hate that retcon revisionist bullshiat.

How is it a retcon when it occurs after the movie events? The EU is a continuation of the saga, not a remake.

The EU was created to fill up the holes and explain all the continuity errors in the movies. What it sounds like is, somebody doesn't know what a "retcon" is; but the point is still valid. Imo, of course.


Eh, most of the EU I find cool. Fleshing out characters like Boba Fett and Palpatine, introducing awesome new characters like Grand Admiral Thrawn, letting a lot of minor characters like Ephant Mon, Momaw Nadon, Wedge, etc to get more screen time. The Vong invasion and the several cyclings between Sith, new Empires, and other "let's redo the original trilogy in the future" stuff did get annoying though.
 
2012-09-01 04:05:37 AM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Gyrfalcon: Keizer_Ghidorah: PanicMan: Mugato: trotsky: You forgot the extensive Extended Universe where Boba Fett was the baddest ass ever to be a bad ass motherfarker. The EU also killed Chewie. So take that with what you will.

And there are furry worms that absorb the Force and clones spell their names with extra silent vowels.

If it didn't happen in the movies it didn't happen. I hate that retcon revisionist bullshiat.

How is it a retcon when it occurs after the movie events? The EU is a continuation of the saga, not a remake.

The EU was created to fill up the holes and explain all the continuity errors in the movies. What it sounds like is, somebody doesn't know what a "retcon" is; but the point is still valid. Imo, of course.

Eh, most of the EU I find cool. Fleshing out characters like Boba Fett and Palpatine, introducing awesome new characters like Grand Admiral Thrawn, letting a lot of minor characters like Ephant Mon, Momaw Nadon, Wedge, etc to get more screen time. The Vong invasion and the several cyclings between Sith, new Empires, and other "let's redo the original trilogy in the future" stuff did get annoying though.


It's really no different than the flurry of bad fiction and endless Guides, Manuals and Handbooks that circulated endlessly after Star Trek I was cancelled in 1969. Only the accessability has been changed.
 
2012-09-01 07:03:59 AM

Bocasio: The smarter and stronger Rice

[upload.wikimedia.org image 229x286]

One hell of a diplomat


A known Muslim. They'll purge her this January. Hopefully bury her alive with Jarrett, Koh, and the rest.
 
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