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(ABC)   New study says that parents are ignoring the college cost crisis. All agree that they're too preoccupied with the mortgage crisis, employment crisis, economic crisis   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 70
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1112 clicks; posted to Business » on 31 Aug 2012 at 10:16 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-31 10:29:01 AM  
Want a four-year degree? Start at a community college and transfer to a four-year school. The first two years are the same for most majors. Get your basic math/literature/sciences out of the way for a fraction of the cost, THEN transfer to the expensive school.
 
2012-08-31 10:31:51 AM  
It is becoming insane how poor a deal university education is. The professors want to do research and writing, and what little teaching they do they prefer to do to grad students. They hire cheap lecturers and adjuncts, and of course grad student TAs to do the bulk of the undergrad courses. Meanwhile the prices have gone up way faster than the cost of living. The professors bring in grants, but even with overhead that subsidizes the research/scholarship, not the teaching.

Actually I think 4/6-year colleges are a much better deal. The faculty aren't going to win Nobel prizes but they are there to teach, and there is usually a degree of fiscal responsibility. They even do stuff like have MBA programs to soak the dumb people and shore up the hopelessly unprofitable (but important) programs like the humanities and fine arts. At universities the MBA program keeps its own money.
 
2012-08-31 10:33:32 AM  
Not ignoring it. Just wrote a check for twenty farking thousand for one damn semester, paying for a student who has no farking clue. Ah well, he's going to support me in my old age right?
 
2012-08-31 10:34:08 AM  
Started to read it, but then there was a giant AD FULL OF BALLOONS FOR SOME F*CKING REASON. So, f*ck off, ABC, not reading, won't be back.

Anyways, from what I gleaned, my opinion is... it's all gonna change. The whole freakin' system, man.
We may see a pendulum effect of 'who gives a sh*t if you have a degree'. Look at the most popular and growing occupation: software. You don't need any education at all to be succesful. Who cares what your schooling is, can you code like a pro? Here's some money.
If the rest of the world follows that trend, we may see it revert back a bit. For lawyers and doctors and engineers, sure. School is, and always will be cornerstone. But for all else? Why do you need a Communications degree to work at a marketing firm? What are you really learning that helps?? Banking?? Take some free Yale finance courses, there isn't much to them. Sure you get a run through of basics, but nothing that a year of working in the mail room wouldn't get you.
 
2012-08-31 10:36:30 AM  

sure haven't: We may see a pendulum effect of 'who gives a sh*t if you have a degree'


Right now, HR departments use it as a quick cut factor. They throw out all applications that don't claim a degree. Until that changes an overpriced degree is going to have value.
 
2012-08-31 10:39:47 AM  

sure haven't: Started to read it, but then there was a giant AD FULL OF BALLOONS FOR SOME F*CKING REASON. So, f*ck off, ABC, not reading, won't be back.

Anyways, from what I gleaned, my opinion is... it's all gonna change. The whole freakin' system, man.
We may see a pendulum effect of 'who gives a sh*t if you have a degree'. Look at the most popular and growing occupation: software. You don't need any education at all to be succesful. Who cares what your schooling is, can you code like a pro? Here's some money.
If the rest of the world follows that trend, we may see it revert back a bit. For lawyers and doctors and engineers, sure. School is, and always will be cornerstone. But for all else? Why do you need a Communications degree to work at a marketing firm? What are you really learning that helps?? Banking?? Take some free Yale finance courses, there isn't much to them. Sure you get a run through of basics, but nothing that a year of working in the mail room wouldn't get you.


An undergraduate degree is not required to enter law school in several other countries. Now, that legal work is being off-shored to India, I can't see that we will be able to justify much longer requiring just over twice the time and expense on legal education as other nations do.
 
2012-08-31 10:42:37 AM  

Mr. Eugenides: sure haven't: We may see a pendulum effect of 'who gives a sh*t if you have a degree'

Right now, HR departments use it as a quick cut factor. They throw out all applications that don't claim a degree. Until that changes an overpriced degree is going to have value.


It seems you stopped reading my post after that sentence. I understand how it is now, what I said was it may change.
 
2012-08-31 10:44:20 AM  
Also, I don't know of any parents that are unaware of or unconcerned about the looming costs of college. When you are in the thick of medical bills, food costs, and covering an astounding array of mandatory school supplies; there is only so much you can do at once; only so much fretting you can manage before you hit fret overload. For me, fret overload is when the overwhelming sleepiness, that sleep can not rectify, kicks in.
 
2012-08-31 10:44:30 AM  
BY the time my kids are ready to go to college, it will either be free on the internet, or so prohibitively expensive, that it won't matter how much they want to go, because without FA, they're never getting there.
 
2012-08-31 10:44:52 AM  
As long as HR departments use computer software to search for X degree and X experience when scanning applications, the system won't change. It's not that parents are ignoring it, it's that there's nothing parents and students can do about it. Want the degree? Get the loans / jump through the hoops. Don't want the degree? Good luck. There are things you can do to make the degree less expensive, but the cost is still going to bite you in the ass eventually.
 
2012-08-31 10:50:02 AM  
It seems you stopped reading my post after that sentence. I understand how it is now, what I said was it may change.

Actually it's just getting worse and worse. Mainly because schools are so awful.

The people coming out of college are retarded enough, yet alone the ones who didn't.
 
2012-08-31 10:51:03 AM  
How can we solve this highly difficult problem of HR using degrees as filters? Actually it's very simple - do to HR what was done to travel departments when setting up travel became idiot simple: outsource those farks. They work for the company, not the other way around like so many HR people seem to think. Even legal is less arrogant in my experience, and that's saying a lot.
 
2012-08-31 10:51:12 AM  
Something's going to have to break, because I was pretty much born on third base, don't spend much money, and have a good job, and I have no idea how I'll pay for kids' college when it comes to that.
 
2012-08-31 10:54:45 AM  

gadian: As long as HR departments use computer software to search for X degree and X experience when scanning applications, the system won't change. It's not that parents are ignoring it, it's that there's nothing parents and students can do about it. Want the degree? Get the loans / jump through the hoops. Don't want the degree? Good luck. There are things you can do to make the degree less expensive, but the cost is still going to bite you in the ass eventually.


You type up all of the mandatory BS requirements in size 1 font using white characters on a white background about a line below the parts of the resume you actually want people to see. The filter picks up the white text, and the actual data you want real people to see is presented properly. It's not illegal to lie on a resume, especially if you have to beat a BS filter.

It also seems to be easier if you contact the department you want to look for and talk to whoever is in charge. If they like you, and they need people, they'll probably give your name to HR, and allow you to skip even having to put BS like 10 years experience in Windows 7.
 
2012-08-31 10:57:11 AM  

sure haven't: Mr. Eugenides: sure haven't: We may see a pendulum effect of 'who gives a sh*t if you have a degree'

Right now, HR departments use it as a quick cut factor. They throw out all applications that don't claim a degree. Until that changes an overpriced degree is going to have value.

It seems you stopped reading my post after that sentence. I understand how it is now, what I said was it may change.


Why would it change? It's legal discrimination and it works.
 
2012-08-31 11:00:16 AM  

Benni K Rok: You type up all of the mandatory BS requirements in size 1 font using white characters on a white background about a line below the parts of the resume you actually want people to see. The filter picks up the white text, and the actual data you want real people to see is presented properly. It's not illegal to lie on a resume, especially if you have to beat a BS filter.


I've actually thought about doing that at one point, but then an HR friend told me that they're starting to print stuff out on colored paper just to check for it. It's just unacceptable that it's come to that and that and ridiculous experience requirements have to change before the education system can. The mentality that a college degree is the only smart option - as opposed to a technical school or apprenticeship also needs to change. I consider myself pretty bright but did poorly in college because I wanted to be working and just got too bored in lecture. I didn't even consider tech school because "only dumb kids with no other options go there".
 
2012-08-31 11:02:09 AM  

Benni K Rok: gadian: As long as HR departments use computer software to search for X degree and X experience when scanning applications, the system won't change. It's not that parents are ignoring it, it's that there's nothing parents and students can do about it. Want the degree? Get the loans / jump through the hoops. Don't want the degree? Good luck. There are things you can do to make the degree less expensive, but the cost is still going to bite you in the ass eventually.

You type up all of the mandatory BS requirements in size 1 font using white characters on a white background about a line below the parts of the resume you actually want people to see. The filter picks up the white text, and the actual data you want real people to see is presented properly. It's not illegal to lie on a resume, especially if you have to beat a BS filter.

It also seems to be easier if you contact the department you want to look for and talk to whoever is in charge. If they like you, and they need people, they'll probably give your name to HR, and allow you to skip even having to put BS like 10 years experience in Windows 7.


Can that really be done? Do people do that?
 
2012-08-31 11:04:12 AM  
My kids know that CC is their future. They can live at home as long as they're in school and I'll pay half the cost of tuition. They will also work and pay the other half up front. They aren't going into that debt abyss on my watch.
 
2012-08-31 11:08:32 AM  

Mr. Eugenides: sure haven't: Mr. Eugenides: sure haven't: We may see a pendulum effect of 'who gives a sh*t if you have a degree'

Right now, HR departments use it as a quick cut factor. They throw out all applications that don't claim a degree. Until that changes an overpriced degree is going to have value.

It seems you stopped reading my post after that sentence. I understand how it is now, what I said was it may change.

Why would it change? It's legal discrimination and it works.


Your statement is both true and depressing. When a job description demands experience in a technology that exceeds the length of time that technology has existed; what motivation, other than an intention to discriminate and get away with it, can logically exist?
 
2012-08-31 11:09:22 AM  
I really don't understand why parents insist on paying for their kid's college tuition. My parents didn't help me out at all, yet I managed to work my way though school and graduate on time. I also didn't take out a single student loan. Before you ask, yes I did manage to win a few minor scholarships. That said, they weren't anything extravagant; they averaged around $600 a semester. Of course, I went to an accredited in-state university because I didn't need to attend Harvard for my career path. (Note to parents: not everyone needs to go to Harvard/Standford/Yale!)

For the record, I graduated in 2006.
 
2012-08-31 11:10:41 AM  

Mr. Eugenides: sure haven't: Mr. Eugenides: sure haven't: We may see a pendulum effect of 'who gives a sh*t if you have a degree'

Right now, HR departments use it as a quick cut factor. They throw out all applications that don't claim a degree. Until that changes an overpriced degree is going to have value.

It seems you stopped reading my post after that sentence. I understand how it is now, what I said was it may change.

Why would it change? It's legal discrimination and it works.


How many lives in society will be broken before something changes? When there is a breakdown in the fabric of the way things are (which is kinda happening a little right now), then people will look to another system.
I also said that the leading occupation right now is software, where education means diddly squat. That's a trend. Trends tend to be followed. Hopefully this one will be.

Or not, f*ck what do I care. Just my opinion. I'm 8 years into a good career and just recently got promoted. However for my kids it's gonna be different. Either worse or better, but it'll be different. Like what another guy said above, it's all free on the internet. I took a couple of Yale courses online because they offer them free. I put that on my resume. Guess how many times that's been laughed at? Zero. But let's say everyone does that and the model changes, you get into territory of who pays for it. All taxes? So free education for all no matter what? That won't work either. I don't know, I don't have all the answers, just opinions.
 
2012-08-31 11:11:23 AM  

kittyhas1000legs: Want a four-year degree? Start at a community college and transfer to a four-year school. The first two years are the same for most majors. Get your basic math/literature/sciences out of the way for a fraction of the cost, THEN transfer to the expensive school.


I did this and I can't recommend it enough. Of course my CC was absolutely amazing in regards to timely refund checks, class scheduling, advising appointments and the like. My sister is going to HCC in Tampa and has had nothing but frustration as she can't register for classes until she receives her financial aid, which shows up after the semester has started. Where I went I had classes registered for in advance and they deducted the cost of the classes from my financial aid when all of that finally came through and I received a refund check my first week of the semester. Of course, changing majors in my junior year (went from BA in History to BS in Cell/Molecular Biology) destroyed a lot of the savings as I am now a 5 year senior due to redoing a bunch of freshman level classes at my university.

\UNCA represent!
 
2012-08-31 11:16:30 AM  

aedude01: I really don't understand why parents insist on paying for their kid's college tuition. My parents didn't help me out at all, yet I managed to work my way though school and graduate on time. I also didn't take out a single student loan. Before you ask, yes I did manage to win a few minor scholarships. That said, they weren't anything extravagant; they averaged around $600 a semester. Of course, I went to an accredited in-state university because I didn't need to attend Harvard for my career path. (Note to parents: not everyone needs to go to Harvard/Standford/Yale!)

For the record, I graduated in 2006.


My parents don't help me out at all and I live on my own, off of my own income, but their income plus mine(not solely mine) is what determines my financial aid. I pretty much have to get loans as I went to school well out of highschool (I was 21 when I was a freshman) and couldn't get scholarships. I go to a pretty affordable in-state school (5k/semester) but there is no way I could afford to pay it without loans while making 20k/year. Now that I'm 24, my FAFSA for next year will be based solely on my income, not the combination of mine and theirs, so I should hopefully get a Pell Grant or NC state grant or something. There needs to be a way to determine those who are fully supporting themselves without help from their parents for grant determination because it really farking sucks.
 
2012-08-31 11:17:55 AM  

Lunaville: Benni K Rok: gadian: As long as HR departments use computer software to search for X degree and X experience when scanning applications, the system won't change. It's not that parents are ignoring it, it's that there's nothing parents and students can do about it. Want the degree? Get the loans / jump through the hoops. Don't want the degree? Good luck. There are things you can do to make the degree less expensive, but the cost is still going to bite you in the ass eventually.

You type up all of the mandatory BS requirements in size 1 font using white characters on a white background about a line below the parts of the resume you actually want people to see. The filter picks up the white text, and the actual data you want real people to see is presented properly. It's not illegal to lie on a resume, especially if you have to beat a BS filter.

It also seems to be easier if you contact the department you want to look for and talk to whoever is in charge. If they like you, and they need people, they'll probably give your name to HR, and allow you to skip even having to put BS like 10 years experience in Windows 7.

Can that really be done? Do people do that?


I've heard of new techniques where you put paragraphs of information within a single period, as the same color as the rest of your resume. I saw that on Fark a while ago(I think about 2 months ago). They posted the F-22 wikipedia entry into a normal sized period.
 
2012-08-31 11:22:00 AM  
I always think it's a little sad when people equate the cost of a 4 year education to nothing more than time spent in the classroom. The number of resources and opportunities available are worth far more than what students/parents spend, provided the student is actively making use of them all.
 
2012-08-31 11:22:19 AM  

SarahDiddle: aedude01: I really don't understand why parents insist on paying for their kid's college tuition. My parents didn't help me out at all, yet I managed to work my way though school and graduate on time. I also didn't take out a single student loan. Before you ask, yes I did manage to win a few minor scholarships. That said, they weren't anything extravagant; they averaged around $600 a semester. Of course, I went to an accredited in-state university because I didn't need to attend Harvard for my career path. (Note to parents: not everyone needs to go to Harvard/Standford/Yale!)

For the record, I graduated in 2006.

My parents don't help me out at all and I live on my own, off of my own income, but their income plus mine(not solely mine) is what determines my financial aid. I pretty much have to get loans as I went to school well out of highschool (I was 21 when I was a freshman) and couldn't get scholarships. I go to a pretty affordable in-state school (5k/semester) but there is no way I could afford to pay it without loans while making 20k/year. Now that I'm 24, my FAFSA for next year will be based solely on my income, not the combination of mine and theirs, so I should hopefully get a Pell Grant or NC state grant or something. There needs to be a way to determine those who are fully supporting themselves without help from their parents for grant determination because it really farking sucks.


That really sucks. Hang in there, I ran into the same thing when in came to my FAFSA. My father made crazy amounts of money with his military background/security clearance, yet he didn't support me at all when it came to school.

FYI, I wasn't trying to say that loans are a bad thing. It sounds like you're trying the best you can, and you're spending crazy amounts of cash on loans so trust me when I say, it'll all work out. It's just going to take a while.
 
2012-08-31 11:24:26 AM  

aedude01: SarahDiddle: aedude01: I really don't understand why parents insist on paying for their kid's college tuition. My parents didn't help me out at all, yet I managed to work my way though school and graduate on time. I also didn't take out a single student loan. Before you ask, yes I did manage to win a few minor scholarships. That said, they weren't anything extravagant; they averaged around $600 a semester. Of course, I went to an accredited in-state university because I didn't need to attend Harvard for my career path. (Note to parents: not everyone needs to go to Harvard/Standford/Yale!)

For the record, I graduated in 2006.

My parents don't help me out at all and I live on my own, off of my own income, but their income plus mine(not solely mine) is what determines my financial aid. I pretty much have to get loans as I went to school well out of highschool (I was 21 when I was a freshman) and couldn't get scholarships. I go to a pretty affordable in-state school (5k/semester) but there is no way I could afford to pay it without loans while making 20k/year. Now that I'm 24, my FAFSA for next year will be based solely on my income, not the combination of mine and theirs, so I should hopefully get a Pell Grant or NC state grant or something. There needs to be a way to determine those who are fully supporting themselves without help from their parents for grant determination because it really farking sucks.

That really sucks. Hang in there, I ran into the same thing when in came to my FAFSA. My father made crazy amounts of money with his military background/security clearance, yet he didn't support me at all when it came to school.

FYI, I wasn't trying to say that loans are a bad thing. It sounds like you're trying the best you can, and you're spending crazy amounts of cash on loans so trust me when I say, it'll all work out. It's just going to take a while.


I mean to say and you're NOT spending crazy amounts of cash on loans. Sorry for the confusion.
 
2012-08-31 11:27:27 AM  
Why does everyone think the only answer is college?
The guy next door to me owns a backhoe and dump truck, also does pressure washing, framing and makes (low) six figures a year. He says, and I quote "There's too much money out there to be working for someone else".
 
2012-08-31 11:28:36 AM  

aedude01: For the record, I graduated in 2006.


Good for you, but realize that in the last six years a lot of state schools tuition has gone up 50% or more, WAY higher than other costs. Meanwhile wages are pretty stagnant and jobless rates are up. But yeah, loans should be seen as a last resort.
 
2012-08-31 11:32:19 AM  

Bacontastesgood: aedude01: For the record, I graduated in 2006.

Good for you, but realize that in the last six years a lot of state schools tuition has gone up 50% or more, WAY higher than other costs. Meanwhile wages are pretty stagnant and jobless rates are up. But yeah, loans should be seen as a last resort.


I think it could be argued that wages aren't stagnant. Rather, they are dropping.
 
2012-08-31 11:36:23 AM  
My alma mater has nearly tripled in price over the last 8 years, and my guess is it's par for the course. I can't imagine how people can justify, let alone pay for it these days.

Something's going to break soon.
 
2012-08-31 11:40:57 AM  
The crisis crisis is starting to weigh on me.
 
2012-08-31 11:43:57 AM  
In hindsight... I would have rather gone to community college for some gen ed, a few basic computer science/coding courses, and the HVAC program.

You don't 'need' a four-year degree, but if you don't have that, you damned well better learn a trade. And in either case, plan on moving.
 
2012-08-31 11:52:11 AM  
Skip HR by going to the people who can actually hire you. If you're shot-gunning resumes, you're doing it wrong. I got my job now through LinkedIn. But I did that by targeting CEOs and executives, not HR directors or recruiters. As someone said above, if the people in charge - the decision-makers - like you, you can skip over the HR crap.
 
2012-08-31 11:55:33 AM  
We need more nurses. The US imports thousands of nurses from other countries every year. The US is one of the last nations that allows RNs to have associate degrees or no degrees at all (diploma programs) and so almost all these people have 4-year degrees. Nursing is one of those jobs that cannot be outsourced, and it's good money for a Bachelor's.
 
2012-08-31 11:56:30 AM  

kittyhas1000legs: Want a four-year degree? Start at a community college and transfer to a four-year school. The first two years are the same for most majors. Get your basic math/literature/sciences out of the way for a fraction of the cost, THEN transfer to the expensive school.


THIS, my biggest regret in life to this point was going to Marquette for my first semester. So much wasted money.
 
2012-08-31 11:59:48 AM  

Lunaville: Benni K Rok: gadian: As long as HR departments use computer software to search for X degree and X experience when scanning applications, the system won't change. It's not that parents are ignoring it, it's that there's nothing parents and students can do about it. Want the degree? Get the loans / jump through the hoops. Don't want the degree? Good luck. There are things you can do to make the degree less expensive, but the cost is still going to bite you in the ass eventually.

You type up all of the mandatory BS requirements in size 1 font using white characters on a white background about a line below the parts of the resume you actually want people to see. The filter picks up the white text, and the actual data you want real people to see is presented properly. It's not illegal to lie on a resume, especially if you have to beat a BS filter.

It also seems to be easier if you contact the department you want to look for and talk to whoever is in charge. If they like you, and they need people, they'll probably give your name to HR, and allow you to skip even having to put BS like 10 years experience in Windows 7.

Can that really be done? Do people do that?


sounds like the rule 34 of resume's
 
2012-08-31 12:33:29 PM  

sure haven't: Started to read it, but then there was a giant AD FULL OF BALLOONS FOR SOME F*CKING REASON. So, f*ck off, ABC, not reading, won't be back.

Anyways, from what I gleaned, my opinion is... it's all gonna change. The whole freakin' system, man.
We may see a pendulum effect of 'who gives a sh*t if you have a degree'. Look at the most popular and growing occupation: software. You don't need any education at all to be succesful. Who cares what your schooling is, can you code like a pro? Here's some money.
If the rest of the world follows that trend, we may see it revert back a bit. For lawyers and doctors and engineers, sure. School is, and always will be cornerstone. But for all else? Why do you need a Communications degree to work at a marketing firm? What are you really learning that helps?? Banking?? Take some free Yale finance courses, there isn't much to them. Sure you get a run through of basics, but nothing that a year of working in the mail room wouldn't get you.


Maybe use a script blocker?
 
2012-08-31 12:38:17 PM  
I went to a smaller state school rather then it's big name associated cousin, and I don't regret it. Class sizes were smaller, but the faculty was very knowledgeable, and actually took an interest in our work. Got good grades, learned a lot, and came out with very little debt.

I do owe a lot of that to getting good pell grants for 4/5ths of my time in school, only losing them due to some 'made money on paper' issues with my parents. The government still assumes parents pay your tuition, which rather screwed me, as I paid my own way for it the vast majority of it. Worked every year I was in college to do that. Still, they made money, on paper, so I lost my grants.

Paid the loans off as of last week. Took me five years to do it, quite happy with that.
 
2012-08-31 12:44:46 PM  

Lunaville: I think it could be argued that wages aren't stagnant. Rather, they are dropping.


I was trying to be overly fair, but sure. It's brutal anymore. And cost of living isn't dropping, even for people who don't have to worry about tuition and debt.
 
2012-08-31 12:47:57 PM  
You can't ignore the costs there are areas where you can save though. Start at a community college then transfer. Commute instead of staying in a dorm. College costs can be minimized. It is more expensive in the long run not to go to college.
 
2012-08-31 12:57:05 PM  
I don't know if I could survive as I did with the education cost as it is now and the distractions easily available. But I still maintain the most important aspect of college/university is people networking. The biggest part of that is finding a co-op/intern type school if they still exist. By my third co-op term I was already hired by the company before I even graduated. Nothing beats showing your employer you can do the job so they and don't have to deal with HR bullshiat hiring processes they hate dealing with as much as the hiree.
 
2012-08-31 12:58:45 PM  

JonZoidberg: We need more nurses. The US imports thousands of nurses from other countries every year. The US is one of the last nations that allows RNs to have associate degrees or no degrees at all (diploma programs) and so almost all these people have 4-year degrees. Nursing is one of those jobs that cannot be outsourced, and it's good money for a Bachelor's.


Which is not too surprising.

Over the past decade or two they run off all the experience nurses who were training people for getting paid too much and replaced them with straight out of college nurses. Most hospitals have radically increased the number of patients per nurse. Around here in NC it is at dangerous levels. Most the nurses I know feel they really gotten a treat when they have enough time to go to the bathroom once per 12 hour shift, since typically they don't have that time, let alone get a break. Then when anything wrong does happen from being massively overworked expect to be sued into bankruptsy by the hospital. If it snows expected to not be allowed to leave, and you can end up covering two 12 hour shifts in a row, and no you do not get a break. You are too busy for both shifts. You just have to hold it. Then to round it off you had all the benefits removed from the job and you are there because if management cut anymore they be thrown in to prison, but hey they get a 6 figure bonus for their work reducing staffing costs.

It no big surprise they can't get nurses when they are treated like utter shiat and the rules that protect others simply don't apply to them.
 
2012-08-31 01:23:27 PM  

JonZoidberg: We need more nurses. The US imports thousands of nurses from other countries every year. The US is one of the last nations that allows RNs to have associate degrees or no degrees at all (diploma programs) and so almost all these people have 4-year degrees. Nursing is one of those jobs that cannot be outsourced, and it's good money for a Bachelor's.


---------------
Everyone and their 3rd cousin is going to nursing school. A lot of hospitals/facilities are shifting the requirements so that it takes more than an associate degree. Colleges are raking in the money and have waiting lists to be on their waiting list. They have upped the application requirements to make it harder to get in.
 
2012-08-31 02:15:10 PM  
They are going to have to move to a "certification" system instead of an "education" system because nobody cares if you know how to bong a beer or do keg-stands, they care about whether you meet the minimum standards to qualify for the job.
 
2012-08-31 02:16:17 PM  

limeyfellow: JonZoidberg: We need more nurses. The US imports thousands of nurses from other countries every year. The US is one of the last nations that allows RNs to have associate degrees or no degrees at all (diploma programs) and so almost all these people have 4-year degrees. Nursing is one of those jobs that cannot be outsourced, and it's good money for a Bachelor's.

Which is not too surprising.

Over the past decade or two they run off all the experience nurses who were training people for getting paid too much and replaced them with straight out of college nurses. Most hospitals have radically increased the number of patients per nurse. Around here in NC it is at dangerous levels. Most the nurses I know feel they really gotten a treat when they have enough time to go to the bathroom once per 12 hour shift, since typically they don't have that time, let alone get a break. Then when anything wrong does happen from being massively overworked expect to be sued into bankruptsy by the hospital. If it snows expected to not be allowed to leave, and you can end up covering two 12 hour shifts in a row, and no you do not get a break. You are too busy for both shifts. You just have to hold it. Then to round it off you had all the benefits removed from the job and you are there because if management cut anymore they be thrown in to prison, but hey they get a 6 figure bonus for their work reducing staffing costs.

It no big surprise they can't get nurses when they are treated like utter shiat and the rules that protect others simply don't apply to them.


Plenty of places nurses can work that aren't in a hospital. There are also hospitals classified as Magnet Hospitals for how well they treat their nursing staff. Also, if you have a Bachelor's, you can travel nurse to other parts of the world and see where nursing is worse while making a great living. Be warned, even in places like the UK, they usually have far more patients per nurse in hospitals than the US. Also, your state's nursing practice act or even legislation may mandate patient nurse ratios at each care level, but even 2 patients can fill a shift up.

Temporary imbalances are expected due to staffing issues, but prolonged nurse deficits should be reported to supervisors, nurse managers, CNOs, the state board, JCAHO, or any other organization that may be accrediting that institution. If a nurse has too many patients, they should accept the assignment under duress and file a complaint. Your state's nursing practice act should contain how to do this. Outside the US, I don't know.

As for running off the experienced nurses, that happens in every industry. Make no mistake, there are some that are also being run off because they don't want to adapt to changes like electronic records, new standards of practice, maintaining CE levels, and also state mandates to get a BSN (as opposed to an ASN or diploma) or lose your RN license.
 
2012-08-31 02:23:04 PM  

cefm: They are going to have to move to a "certification" system instead of an "education" system because nobody cares if you know how to bong a beer or do keg-stands, they care about whether you meet the minimum standards to qualify for the job.


They haven't cared about the minimum standards to qualify for the job for a long, long time. "Entry-level" requires a degree and 2-5 years of experience. There simply aren't any jobs, and employers are happy to stack the work on their remaining employees while whinging about finding the "perfect candidate" to mop floors.
 
2012-08-31 02:25:42 PM  
My wfie and I are both state school grads, self paid. I've got two kids in that same school right now and they will graduate with no debt. Relatively cheap. My third kid is a senior in HS, will probably be valedictorian, and already has a $60K scholarship to the private school that is his first choice. Unfortunately, that school is a min of $60K per year and I know that he can go the state school on merit scholarships totally free. I'm not at all convinced that he'd get $180K of a better education from the private, especially as an undergrad.
 
2012-08-31 03:03:01 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: cefm: They are going to have to move to a "certification" system instead of an "education" system because nobody cares if you know how to bong a beer or do keg-stands, they care about whether you meet the minimum standards to qualify for the job.

They haven't cared about the minimum standards to qualify for the job for a long, long time. "Entry-level" requires a degree and 2-5 years of experience. There simply aren't any jobs, and employers are happy to stack the work on their remaining employees while whinging about finding the "perfect candidate" to mop floors.


Think someone else on Fark said this awhile back, but employers these days seem to want "plug and play" employees. No training or learning curve just come in day one knowing how to do the job. I see that were I work. We won't look at young just-out-of-college kids and instead hire over-the-hill programmers cause they look experienced on paper. We still end up having to teach them and they end up getting laid off in a year because they're too expensive. Our best hires of late were both people in their 20s or 30s with little experience. A few of us devs keep bringing up the idea of hiring people out of college, but we're always told no.
 
2012-08-31 04:32:59 PM  

simusid: My wfie and I are both state school grads, self paid. I've got two kids in that same school right now and they will graduate with no debt. Relatively cheap. My third kid is a senior in HS, will probably be valedictorian, and already has a $60K scholarship to the private school that is his first choice. Unfortunately, that school is a min of $60K per year and I know that he can go the state school on merit scholarships totally free. I'm not at all convinced that he'd get $180K of a better education from the private, especially as an undergrad.


My eldest walked at ten months and the younger one went on pointe at eleven years of age.
 
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