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(USA Today)   Just as you've finally finished paying off your sweet 1080p television, Sony and LG to introduce 4K models this fall that are four times sharper and will only cost you about $20,000 for starters   (usatoday.com) divider line 73
    More: Spiffy, Sony Electronics, LED TV, HDTVs, mass market, DTC  
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1935 clicks; posted to Geek » on 31 Aug 2012 at 11:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-31 01:17:15 AM
This reminds me of Steve Martin's old shtick about his Googlephonic stereo system with the moon rock needle.
 
2012-08-31 01:40:36 AM
That money could have been spent on you're English classes, too.
 
2012-08-31 08:29:54 AM
Also, classic films are being remastered for 4K, and some TV series, including CBS' Made in Jersey, are being shot in 4K.
So was the Taylor Swift video We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together, due out today.


It doesn't matter if it only shows "Jersey Shore 2" or Taylor Swift. No one buys these things to actually watch them. It's just a status symbol piece of furniture-- like grand pianos used to be.
 
2012-08-31 08:31:26 AM

Fark Me To Tears: This reminds me of Steve Martin's old shtick about his Googlephonic stereo system with the moon rock needle.


It's okay for my car, wouldn't want it in my house.
 
2012-08-31 08:33:26 AM
I am pretty sweet, thanks!
 
2012-08-31 08:51:27 AM

Relatively Obscure: That money could have been spent on you're English classes, too two.


ftfy
 
2012-08-31 10:04:21 AM

Relatively Obscure: That money could have been spent on you're English classes, too.


done in two.
 
2012-08-31 10:43:22 AM
Black rectangles with glass screens and electronic components? You better believe that's a lawsuit.
 
2012-08-31 10:48:53 AM

FlashHarry: done in two to.


sorry, pet peeve.

I don't even like 1080. Too much def, man, too much def!
 
2012-08-31 10:50:31 AM
I am a sweet television??

wut
 
2012-08-31 11:35:41 AM

xanadian: I am a sweet television??

wut


*turns you on*
-------------------------
honestly.. do we REALLY need anything beyond 1080p? What's the next step.. holographic movies viewed from .. a rotating chair? then high def holographs.. then 1080p holographs.. and then what? WE get to be IN the movie? Wait..
 
2012-08-31 11:46:07 AM
I just got a laptop with 1080p, so I'm getting a kick out of this thread.
 
2012-08-31 11:52:25 AM
They are going to need to re-evaluate their pricing a whole bunch.

RED is planning on releasing a 4K projector in 4Q for under $10k. 4K projectors have actually been around for many years now, but their prices have been in the #20-50k range.
 
2012-08-31 11:54:08 AM

GreenAdder: Black rectangles with glass screens and electronic components? You better believe that's a lawsuit.


Apple: All they did was take an iPhone, change the functionalities, and make it a lot bigger!

Shiat-eating juror that wouldn't understand patent law if it came with free blowjobs: Guilty!
 
2012-08-31 11:56:35 AM
appliancecenterdirect.com
 
2012-08-31 11:56:44 AM
So how many BluRay discs will it take to hold the information for a 4k movie?
 
2012-08-31 12:09:41 PM
They are not four times sharper. They have four times the maximum resolution. Blu-ray and HD cable still are only high definition (720p, 1080i, and 1080p), and the HDTV will only upconvert that native video to the screen. It is not the same. They can be four times sharper, but you need native resolution content.
 
2012-08-31 12:23:57 PM
I'll stick with my 55 inch 1080p set for now. Picture is very clear, colors good, and I didn't have to mortgage my house to buy it.
 
2012-08-31 12:24:06 PM
I gave up keeping up with TVs and Dolby 7.whatever a long time ago.

Do I need more pixels for tv I barely watch?
 
2012-08-31 12:26:00 PM

Bloody William: They are not four times sharper. They have four times the maximum resolution. Blu-ray and HD cable still are only high definition (720p, 1080i, and 1080p), and the HDTV will only upconvert that native video to the screen. It is not the same. They can be four times sharper, but you need native resolution content.


The tech needs to be there for people to make content for it. Plus won't there be no discernable change in picture quality unless you sit 20 feet away?
 
2012-08-31 12:26:46 PM
Meh. I have a 42" 1080p plasma, and i can see individual pixels. 4k at 84" isn't four times as sharp, it's exactly as sharp at 4 times the size. Call me when 8k 84" displays get below $3000 adjusted for inflation.
 
2012-08-31 12:27:35 PM
I must be old man grumpus here, but my reaction is "will it make bad movies good?" I'm guessing no. Amazingly enough, I can watch my old VHS copy of Blade Runner on a 20" tube TV and LOVE it. Why? Because it's good. Transformers or Battleship or Howard the Duck are not good, no matter how crisp they look.

Also, buying a flatter, bigger, crisper new TV will not change the fact that your government is deeply corrupt, your spouse doesn't love you, your child will never be Wayne Gretzky, and you yourself contribute nothing more beautiful and creative to the world than the typed smiley at the end of your last TPS report.
 
2012-08-31 12:31:36 PM

No Such Agency: Transformers or Battleship or Howard the Duck are not good, no matter how crisp they look.


Can we at least agree that the 1986 Transformers is a perfectly cromulent movie? I grew up on that movie. When I was a little GreenAdder, I practically wore out that flick on VHS from watching it so many times.
 
2012-08-31 12:34:18 PM
The human eye can only resolve about one arc second, give or take a little. Unless you're planning on sitting 8 inches away from your 45" TV, there will be literally no difference from a 1080P set. 4K really only makes sense if your planning to build a dedicated theater room, or buy a 80" TV and sit 5 feet away from it.

IOW it's a gimmick to justify larger flatscreen margins in a market where prices have dropped precipitously and margins are razor thin for companies that can't deal with it.

Outsourcing your manufacturing to Chinese mega factories sure was a double edged sword, wasn't it Sony, Mitsubishi, and Sharp? Oops.
 
2012-08-31 12:37:18 PM

duffblue: Bloody William: They are not four times sharper. They have four times the maximum resolution. Blu-ray and HD cable still are only high definition (720p, 1080i, and 1080p), and the HDTV will only upconvert that native video to the screen. It is not the same. They can be four times sharper, but you need native resolution content.

The tech needs to be there for people to make content for it. Plus won't there be no discernable change in picture quality unless you sit 20 feet away?


Other way around. It allows a larger screen with the same perceived sharpness, or the viewer can sit closer.

4K allows an image that fills 2/3 of your vision with no perception of pixels.

An added benefit is that 4K is a resolution plateau. The film used to shoot most movies for the past 100 years doesn't have more detail than 4K. So you can safely buy your movie collection (again) at 4K and never need to replace it again....ever.
 
2012-08-31 12:39:44 PM
GreenAdder:
No Such Agency: Transformers or Battleship or Howard the Duck are not good, no matter how crisp they look.

Can we at least agree that the 1986 Transformers is a perfectly cromulent movie? I grew up on that movie. When I was a little GreenAdder, I practically wore out that flick on VHS from watching it so many times.


It's a big event of my childhood, that's for sure. But my view of it is forever tainted by an annoying college roommate who would. not. farking. shut up. about it. To him, it was Citizen Kane, Catch-22 and The Third Man all rolled into one. And he virtually demanded that I see it the same way, instead of just as a fun cartoon flick of my youth :(

/I'm pretty sure he wanked to "Oh My Goddess" comics too, the festering little weeaboo.
 
2012-08-31 12:41:49 PM

madgonad: duffblue: Bloody William: They are not four times sharper. They have four times the maximum resolution. Blu-ray and HD cable still are only high definition (720p, 1080i, and 1080p), and the HDTV will only upconvert that native video to the screen. It is not the same. They can be four times sharper, but you need native resolution content.

The tech needs to be there for people to make content for it. Plus won't there be no discernable change in picture quality unless you sit 20 feet away?

Other way around. It allows a larger screen with the same perceived sharpness, or the viewer can sit closer.

4K allows an image that fills 2/3 of your vision with no perception of pixels.

An added benefit is that 4K is a resolution plateau. The film used to shoot most movies for the past 100 years doesn't have more detail than 4K. So you can safely buy your movie collection (again) at 4K and never need to replace it again....ever.


yeah, cuz THAT is what people are doing.
 
2012-08-31 12:42:18 PM

Dr.Knockboots: honestly.. do we REALLY need anything beyond 1080p?


No, not really. At least for I would imagine 99% of home setups. You can probably see a discernible difference as the display sizes get much larger, but it's no earth shattering improvement. The bigger issue is finding the bandwidth to broadcast 4K material (at least 4K material that isn't heavily compressed to hell).
 
2012-08-31 12:42:53 PM

madgonad: An added benefit is that 4K is a resolution plateau. The film used to shoot most movies for the past 100 years doesn't have more detail than 4K. So you can safely buy your movie collection (again) at 4K and never need to replace it again....ever.


Until 4.1K arrives. That'll have super sense surround smell vision.

You just KNOW they'll find another way to resell you all of your movies again in 5 - 10 years time.
 
2012-08-31 12:43:05 PM

TyrantII: The human eye can only resolve about one arc second, give or take a little. Unless you're planning on sitting 8 inches away from your 45" TV, there will be literally no difference from a 1080P set. 4K really only makes sense if your planning to build a dedicated theater room, or buy a 80" TV and sit 5 feet away from it.


Pretty close.

For example - lets take a 102" projected 4K image - a typical home theater installation would use a screen that size. The viewer could sit as close as 7' away from the screen and not see the pixels (obviously, further away is fine too). For 1080p the closest you can sit is 14'.
 
2012-08-31 12:44:48 PM

frepnog: madgonad: duffblue: Bloody William: They are not four times sharper. They have four times the maximum resolution. Blu-ray and HD cable still are only high definition (720p, 1080i, and 1080p), and the HDTV will only upconvert that native video to the screen. It is not the same. They can be four times sharper, but you need native resolution content.

The tech needs to be there for people to make content for it. Plus won't there be no discernable change in picture quality unless you sit 20 feet away?

Other way around. It allows a larger screen with the same perceived sharpness, or the viewer can sit closer.

4K allows an image that fills 2/3 of your vision with no perception of pixels.

An added benefit is that 4K is a resolution plateau. The film used to shoot most movies for the past 100 years doesn't have more detail than 4K. So you can safely buy your movie collection (again) at 4K and never need to replace it again....ever.

yeah, cuz THAT is what people are doing.


Actually, that is a huge contribution to poor BluRay sales. Not many people want to replace a collection that was purchased first on VHS, then Laserdisc, the DVD. 4K would be long term.
 
2012-08-31 12:45:07 PM

madgonad: The film used to shoot most movies for the past 100 years doesn't have more detail than 4K. So you can safely buy your movie collection (again) at 4K and never need to replace it again....ever.


Until everything is shot digitally at 9K or 20K or 100K or...
 
2012-08-31 12:46:00 PM

Vaneshi: madgonad: An added benefit is that 4K is a resolution plateau. The film used to shoot most movies for the past 100 years doesn't have more detail than 4K. So you can safely buy your movie collection (again) at 4K and never need to replace it again....ever.

Until 4.1K arrives. That'll have super sense surround smell vision.

You just KNOW they'll find another way to resell you all of your movies again in 5 - 10 years time.


Well, we already have master audio. 4K would be master video.

Now there might be a market for FeelAround.....
 
2012-08-31 12:48:34 PM

No Such Agency: To him, it was Citizen Kane, Catch-22 and The Third Man all rolled into one. And he virtually demanded that I see it the same way, instead of just as a fun cartoon flick of my youth :(


Yikes. I mean, I'm with you. It's a fond memory and a great trip down memory lane. My wife thinks otherwise. As she didn't see the movie when it was released, she said the post-movie episodes just confused and enraged her. To each their own, I guess.
It's not a masterpiece, however, especially with the thinly-veiled Star Wars parallels (at one point, a light saber is even brandished). I'm just saying it's an enjoyable movie and doesn't deserve to be lumped in with the other films bearing the "Transformers" brand.

No Such Agency: /I'm pretty sure he wanked to "Oh My Goddess" comics too, the festering little weeaboo.


Yikes again. I don't really get too into the whole anime / manga thing too much. Especially not that much.
 
2012-08-31 12:48:50 PM

notmtwain: It doesn't matter if it only shows "Jersey Shore 2" or Taylor Swift. No one buys these things to actually watch them.



Cinephiles buy them to watch them. I've been blown away by some the Bluray transfers on my HD set. Especially for films that came out before I was born, it's like going back in time to see them in the theaters. I can't wait for 4k TVs to come out and be affordable.

/currently editing a film in 5k
 
2012-08-31 12:56:07 PM

madgonad: frepnog: madgonad: duffblue: Bloody William: They are not four times sharper. They have four times the maximum resolution. Blu-ray and HD cable still are only high definition (720p, 1080i, and 1080p), and the HDTV will only upconvert that native video to the screen. It is not the same. They can be four times sharper, but you need native resolution content.

The tech needs to be there for people to make content for it. Plus won't there be no discernable change in picture quality unless you sit 20 feet away?

Other way around. It allows a larger screen with the same perceived sharpness, or the viewer can sit closer.

4K allows an image that fills 2/3 of your vision with no perception of pixels.

An added benefit is that 4K is a resolution plateau. The film used to shoot most movies for the past 100 years doesn't have more detail than 4K. So you can safely buy your movie collection (again) at 4K and never need to replace it again....ever.

yeah, cuz THAT is what people are doing.

Actually, that is a huge contribution to poor BluRay sales. Not many people want to replace a collection that was purchased first on VHS, then Laserdisc, the DVD. 4K would be long term.


i find it very hard to believe that people actually do that. my own movie collection is on vhs, hddvd, blu, dvd, laserdisc and then the plain ol' files on a server.

I am just not going to buy Snow White again. I own it on laserdisc and I am sorry, but that ancient cartoon, as good as it is, is not going to get better in HD. In fact, the only movies I have purchased more than once has been the Star Wars trilogy (bought the widescreen VHS and the DVD's) and of course Robocop (own the Criterion laserdisc and the original Criterion dvd - as an aside here, I have watched the blu of Robocop. The dvd looks fine comparatively.... of course that could also be because of the notroiously bad 80's film stock used).
 
2012-08-31 12:58:37 PM
s3.carltonbale.com

/still, want!
 
2012-08-31 01:00:30 PM
thank Christ for deteriorating eyesight. I guess some people will gladly pay for all the extra detail in their pornography.
 
2012-08-31 01:04:14 PM
I don't think I am some kind of luddite... but I can't be the only person under 40 who just walks into Costco and buys the nicest looking TV $500 will buy every few years. Right? Who really thinks about televisions this much?
 
2012-08-31 01:05:57 PM
i.imgur.com
So how close to the screens do I have to sit again before I notice the pixels?
 
2012-08-31 01:10:22 PM
I don't get the point, very little "HD" movies are actually put on a BluRay in full HD quality. Most of them are just the DVD resolution video transferred to the BluRay format, and I don't understand this one "Sony's set will be able to upscale video from a source such as a Blu-ray player to near-4K quality". If the video isn't in that quality you really can't just "Upscale" it and how would this be different then just watching the 1080 format and letting your brain "Upscale" it?
 
2012-08-31 01:21:04 PM

frepnog: i find it very hard to believe that people actually do that. my own movie collection is on vhs, hddvd, blu, dvd, laserdisc and then the plain ol' files on a server.

I am just not going to buy Snow White again. I own it on laserdisc and I am sorry, but that ancient cartoon, as good as it is, is not going to get better in HD. In fact, the only movies I have purchased more than once has been the Star Wars trilogy (bought the widescreen VHS and the DVD's) and of course Robocop (own the Criterion laserdisc and the original Criterion dvd - as an aside here, I have watched the blu of Robocop. The dvd looks fine comparatively.... of course that could also be because of the notroiously bad 80's film stock used).


My Laserdisc player died a long time ago. I thought of springing for a used one, but that isn't a long term solution. I have a very nice VHS player, but seriously - it looks like crap on my display. So almost everything I own now is on DVD. I have only picked up a few BluRays (BD-ROM drive and HTPC). The main reason I haven't been buying BluRays is the fact that they were obsolete within 9 months of the first players coming out. 4 Layer BDs were developed at that time and a 4K film will fit on those 100GB discs. I chose to wait out BluRay. I doubt I am the only one. Having Netflix makes the waiting easier.
 
2012-08-31 01:21:13 PM

Science_Guy_3.14159: I don't get the point, very little "HD" movies are actually put on a BluRay in full HD quality. Most of them are just the DVD resolution video transferred to the BluRay format, and I don't understand this one "Sony's set will be able to upscale video from a source such as a Blu-ray player to near-4K quality". If the video isn't in that quality you really can't just "Upscale" it and how would this be different then just watching the 1080 format and letting your brain "Upscale" it?


you... you don't REALLY believe that, right? You are trolling, right?
 
2012-08-31 01:30:36 PM

madgonad: frepnog: i find it very hard to believe that people actually do that. my own movie collection is on vhs, hddvd, blu, dvd, laserdisc and then the plain ol' files on a server.

I am just not going to buy Snow White again. I own it on laserdisc and I am sorry, but that ancient cartoon, as good as it is, is not going to get better in HD. In fact, the only movies I have purchased more than once has been the Star Wars trilogy (bought the widescreen VHS and the DVD's) and of course Robocop (own the Criterion laserdisc and the original Criterion dvd - as an aside here, I have watched the blu of Robocop. The dvd looks fine comparatively.... of course that could also be because of the notroiously bad 80's film stock used).

My Laserdisc player died a long time ago. I thought of springing for a used one, but that isn't a long term solution. I have a very nice VHS player, but seriously - it looks like crap on my display. So almost everything I own now is on DVD. I have only picked up a few BluRays (BD-ROM drive and HTPC). The main reason I haven't been buying BluRays is the fact that they were obsolete within 9 months of the first players coming out. 4 Layer BDs were developed at that time and a 4K film will fit on those 100GB discs. I chose to wait out BluRay. I doubt I am the only one. Having Netflix makes the waiting easier.


truth is that the best "long term solution" is to just capture the best looking video from what ever source you have to a digital file and store it. well, maybe not so much vhs unless it is just something that absolutely can not be found anyplace else. I love my laserdisc collection, as unwieldy as it is and I have 2 great pioneer players that will more than likely last me as long as I need them to (especially since it isn't like I am watching them every day or anything). Those things are over engineered to a fault, and as long as they aren't strapped into an old Dragon's Lair arcade machine last damn near forever. Yeah, VHS looks like utter crap on a flat LCD, but laserdiscs look almost as good as dvd on a tv with a good scaler.

I guess my personal feeling is that there are some older movies that would be nice to see in HD, but on the whole the extra resolution doesn't improve the actual film in question. Tale the Audrey Hepburn movie Sabrina for instance. Great film, a classic, but the dvd is already razor sharp. That film is not going to get better at 4k and the dvd will never look worse. Meh, I suppose there might be a few people out there that actually re-buy a movie collection. I just don't think there are all that many.
 
2012-08-31 01:31:10 PM

frepnog: Science_Guy_3.14159: I don't get the point, very little "HD" movies are actually put on a BluRay in full HD quality. Most of them are just the DVD resolution video transferred to the BluRay format, and I don't understand this one "Sony's set will be able to upscale video from a source such as a Blu-ray player to near-4K quality". If the video isn't in that quality you really can't just "Upscale" it and how would this be different then just watching the 1080 format and letting your brain "Upscale" it?

you... you don't REALLY believe that, right? You are trolling, right?


They looke exactly the same on my 480p TV.
 
2012-08-31 01:36:36 PM

flaminio: [s3.carltonbale.com image 850x580]

/still, want!


I had a 32inch plasma that sat 20' away. I watched Avatar on mute for about an hour before I realized it was Fern Gully.
 
2012-08-31 01:41:11 PM

frepnog: truth is that the best "long term solution" is to just capture the best looking video from what ever source you have to a digital file and store it. well, maybe not so much vhs unless it is just something that absolutely can not be found anyplace else. I love my laserdisc collection, as unwieldy as it is and I have 2 great pioneer players that will more than likely last me as long as I need them to (especially since it isn't like I am watching them every day or anything). Those things are over engineered to a fault, and as long as they aren't strapped into an old Dragon's Lair arcade machine last damn near forever. Yeah, VHS looks like utter crap on a flat LCD, but laserdiscs look almost as good as dvd on a tv with a good scaler.

I guess my personal feeling is that there are some older movies that would be nice to see in HD, but on the whole the extra resolution doesn't improve the actual film in question. Tale the Audrey Hepburn movie Sabrina for instance. Great film, a classic, but the dvd is already razor sharp. That film is not going to get better at 4k and the dvd will never look worse. Meh, I suppose there might be a few people out there that actually re-buy a movie collection. I just don't think there are all that many.


Waaaaaay ahead of you.
 
2012-08-31 01:41:51 PM

Saiga410: They looke exactly the same on my 480p TV.



I know you're tolling, they hatin' but.

My AppleTV is hooked up to a PAL TV. 720P content played through it (and thus displayed at 480P) is noticeably darker than actual SD content. So yes, you can tell the difference on a SD TV.

/The 720P content looks fine on my HD TV though.
 
2012-08-31 01:42:23 PM

Saiga410: frepnog: Science_Guy_3.14159: I don't get the point, very little "HD" movies are actually put on a BluRay in full HD quality. Most of them are just the DVD resolution video transferred to the BluRay format, and I don't understand this one "Sony's set will be able to upscale video from a source such as a Blu-ray player to near-4K quality". If the video isn't in that quality you really can't just "Upscale" it and how would this be different then just watching the 1080 format and letting your brain "Upscale" it?

you... you don't REALLY believe that, right? You are trolling, right?

They looke exactly the same on my 480p TV.


see... I just don't buy this shiat at all. (Yeah, yeah, i know.) Right now my tv watching is mostly done on an ancient 800x600 3M projector (lightning storm blew up my HDTV). Even on an 800x600 display, the visual difference between SD and HD content is simply staggering.

is01.thegumtree.com

That monster is really something.
 
2012-08-31 01:54:39 PM
I transcode all the video I download to 640x480 MP4, so I can load it on my trusty iPod 5G if I like.

It usually doesn't look great on the 30" HDTV in the living room, but neither does it look so bad that it distracts me from enjoying the content.
 
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