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(Fox News)   The U.S. State Department tells employees to stop using common phrases such as "hold down the fort" and "rule of thumb" because they are culturally and racially insensitive   (foxnews.com) divider line 209
    More: Asinine, State Department, U.S., State Department tells  
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8302 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Aug 2012 at 2:18 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-31 12:18:31 AM  
And "rule of thumb," he wrote, can according to women's activists refer "to an antiquated law, whereby the width of a husband's thumb was the legal size of a switch or rod allowed to beat his wife."

Someone needs to learn how to use the Googles.
 
2012-08-31 12:21:23 AM  
Actually that idiom is often mis-phrased.

The term is "hold in the fart", which has a completely different connotation.
 
2012-08-31 12:26:36 AM  
He singled out another phrase, "Going Dutch," as a "negative stereotype portraying the Dutch as cheap."

Being cheap is just one of the many despicable attributes of the Dutch
 
2012-08-31 12:28:14 AM  
Anybody who says "hold the fort" to you is nothing more than a lazy asshole who wants you to pick up their slack, and that's a documentable fact.
 
2012-08-31 12:32:13 AM  
Origin of the phrase "Hold down the fort" (to be pedantic, it should've been "Hold down the castle")

Link
 
2012-08-31 12:34:15 AM  

RoyBatty: Origin of the phrase "Hold down the fort" (to be pedantic, it should've been "Hold down the castle")

Link


No, I'm quite certain the phrase is "Hold in the fart". You are mistaken.
 
2012-08-31 12:53:37 AM  
Look I know most of you think that this is some puerile fascination with fart jokes but its (intentionally not it's)not.

1972 -When I was three years old my father served in the military. Vietnam it was. I remember the day he left for that war. I was hiding behind the front door because my parents were arguing on the porch. Dad wanted to say goodbye and so he looked for me. I could hear the distant sound of helicopters.

"Listen son, I want you to know that I love you. You've got to look after your mom, now that I am off to war." Moisture glistened from his eyes. They were blue and protected by large gold framed glasses. He had a bunch of those rectangular medals on his dark olive suit.

"You know how when we play?" he continued. "How when we're in the living room and we build farts out of the couch cushions? Well you are going to have to build them by yourself from now on. I'll be with you in my heart if you do. From now on, you are authorized to build the farts but put the cushions away if your mother asks."

I nodded.


"Hold in the fart while I'm away"

I farkin' love my dad.

The helicopter was almost there, and people started running towards them. They wanted to catch them. It was the last American ride out of Saigon.
 
2012-08-31 01:05:26 AM  

fusillade762: And "rule of thumb," he wrote, can according to women's activists refer "to an antiquated law, whereby the width of a husband's thumb was the legal size of a switch or rod allowed to beat his wife."

Someone needs to learn how to use the Googles.


Sometimes the old chestnuts just refuse to die, don't they? The irony is that the phrase is probably legitimately insensitive now because there is such a widespread misunderstanding amongst (usually young) feminists that this is actually the origin of the phrase.
 
2012-08-31 01:17:51 AM  
Thank god they didn't have a tampon shooting dinosaur robot. That would have gone over like a lead balloon.

i25.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-31 01:20:29 AM  
Boy, I sure am glad that there's a guy being paid to warn people not to use phrases based on erroneous folk etymology, therefore spreading and reinforcing the bullshiat.

I wonder how much he gets paid...I hope the State Department isn't being nubianrdly.
 
2012-08-31 01:21:19 AM  
HA!...I thought I remembered that one getting filter'd
 
2012-08-31 02:19:51 AM  
rule of thumb

i47.tinypic.com
 
2012-08-31 02:24:31 AM  
I think sometims women ar kinda asking for it.
 
2012-08-31 02:24:55 AM  
Fox News link...complaints about political correctness...

I smell butthurt.
 
2012-08-31 02:26:56 AM  
Can't do much damage with that, can you? Shoulda been 'rule of wrist'
 
2012-08-31 02:27:25 AM  
Rule of thumb?

media.tumblr.com
 
2012-08-31 02:27:47 AM  

fusillade762: And "rule of thumb," he wrote, can according to women's activists refer "to an antiquated law, whereby the width of a husband's thumb was the legal size of a switch or rod allowed to beat his wife."

Someone needs to learn how to use the Googles.


The Googles, they do nothing.

The founding fathers warned us not to let special interest groups play a role in the federal government. Federalist Paper No. 10, by Madison.
 
2012-08-31 02:28:16 AM  
They can't use those phrases? Honest Injun?
 
2012-08-31 02:29:02 AM  

miltonbabbitt: Rule of thumb?

[media.tumblr.com image 500x370]


She's the serial crusher
 
2012-08-31 02:30:35 AM  

miltonbabbitt: Rule of thumb?

[media.tumblr.com image 500x370]


I see you used the same google search I did. Only mine had Connor in the pic but gave me the stupid 'unfetchable' link, or whatever the hell that error is.
 
2012-08-31 02:31:03 AM  
Who. Freaklng. Cares. You, the offenders, have countably infinite objectionable phrases you can use. After the bureaucrats ban, oh, say, countably infinite objectionable phases, you will STILL have another countably infinite phrases that do the job. And again, and again. Countably infinite times. Off to the next thread....
 
2012-08-31 02:31:42 AM  
Nobody ever mentions the obvious "keep your cotton pickin' hands off..." when they list these sorts of offensive phrases. 

i.imgur.com
 
2012-08-31 02:32:35 AM  

Johnny Bananapeel: Nobody ever mentions the obvious "keep your cotton pickin' hands off..." when they list these sorts of offensive phrases. 

[i.imgur.com image 443x290]


how much more ofendded do you think blakc people can get?
 
2012-08-31 02:33:57 AM  

miltonbabbitt: Rule of thumb?

[media.tumblr.com image 500x370]


That's immediately where my brain went as well. One of the two greatest movies of all time. The other is Princess Bride.

"There was a fiiiiireeeee fiiiightttt!"
"Someone has bested a giant!"
 
2012-08-31 02:35:43 AM  
Chief Diversity Officer John Robinson doesn't want folks to call a spade a spade. I wonder what the new terminology is for 'take the stick out of your ass'.
 
2012-08-31 02:36:14 AM  

miltonbabbitt: Rule of thumb?

[media.tumblr.com image 500x370]


photo.blogpressapp.com

Perhaps it should have been a rule of wrist?
 
2012-08-31 02:36:26 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Johnny Bananapeel: Nobody ever mentions the obvious "keep your cotton pickin' hands off..." when they list these sorts of offensive phrases. 

[i.imgur.com image 443x290]

how much more ofendded do you think blakc people can get?


"400 years worth of being treated like shiat" offended. But that's just an estimate.
 
2012-08-31 02:37:05 AM  
1) I love that they refer to "vicious Native American intruders," In an article biatching about being PC.

2) I would much prefer and administration that cautions its employees on what they say over an administration that (albeit only initially) referred to an active military campaign in the Middle East as a Crusade.
 
2012-08-31 02:38:29 AM  
Can they still use...

duquesnehunky.files.wordpress.com

/Hot link
 
2012-08-31 02:41:22 AM  

Deman: miltonbabbitt: Rule of thumb?

[media.tumblr.com image 500x370]

[photo.blogpressapp.com image 334x318]

Perhaps it should have been a rule of wrist?


Came for the Boondocks.
 
2012-08-31 02:42:39 AM  
Don't use sayings or phrases if you're writing things that might be viewed internationally because they're just not going to get it and wonder what the hell you're talking about. Some writer I know actually used "hold down the fort" in an article recently and some British people were asking what this even meant.
 
2012-08-31 02:45:10 AM  

fusillade762: And "rule of thumb," he wrote, can according to women's activists refer "to an antiquated law, whereby the width of a husband's thumb was the legal size of a switch or rod allowed to beat his wife."

Someone needs to learn how to use the Googles.


This.

Also... I wonder if forts existed before or outside of the need to protect ones self from the Native Americans?

Robinson cited the cautionary tale of Nike rolling out a "Black and Tan" sneaker without realizing the phrase once referred to a group "that committed atrocities against Irish civilians." Nike later apologized.

And now refers to a drink made with a popular Irish beverage. Ferfuxake, people, grow a little skin. "Choose my word carefully" Mr. Robinson? Aight, I'm very carefully calling you a dumbass.
 
2012-08-31 02:45:15 AM  
"Chief Diversity Officer John Robinson"
Chief? The Native American part of me finds that highly offensive.
 
2012-08-31 02:47:29 AM  

ZeroPly: Who. Freaklng. Cares. You, the offenders, have countably infinite objectionable phrases you can use. After the bureaucrats ban, oh, say, countably infinite objectionable phases, you will STILL have another countably infinite phrases that do the job. And again, and again. Countably infinite times. Off to the next thread....


The offensive? There is a point at which it is not the fault of those using the words, but those hearing them. For instance, Los Angeles County government insisted that it's IT department stopped referring to multiple hard drives as "master" and "slave".
 
2012-08-31 02:47:40 AM  
Really? I'm the first farker pedantic enough to point out it should be "hold the fort" not "hold down the fort"?

If I ask someone to "hold the fort", it's a pretty clear metaphor; there's a fort, I have to leave for a while, and I want them to stay and stop the Mongols getting in or whatever. I'm asking them to look after a specific location while I'm gone.

If I ask someone to "hold DOWN the fort"... Well that's meaningless. Why would you need to hold down a fort? Is it going to fly away? No. Some idiot just misheard the phrase one day, started using it wrong and other idiots copied him. Just stop it.
 
2012-08-31 02:49:20 AM  
Well, allow me to accomodate!

www.city-data.com

And Shepherds we shall be For Thee my Lord, for Thee Power hath descended forth from Thy hand Our feet may swiftly carry out Thy commands. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee And teeming with souls shall it ever be. In Nomine Patri, Et Fili, Et Spiritus Sancti.
 
2012-08-31 02:50:40 AM  
Whoever wrote that policy should be taken away in a Paddy Wagon.
 
2012-08-31 02:51:51 AM  

Solid Muldoon: Whoever wrote that policy should be taken away in a Paddy Wagon.


That's a red herring.

Won't somebody think of the herring?
 
2012-08-31 02:53:15 AM  
"No one really knows what these phrases mean. So, no one can really be offended by them. I must change that by educated people about these phrases so they can be properly offended, like they should."


Everybody just stop talking. You're just going to offend someone anyway.
 
2012-08-31 02:53:46 AM  
I understand "long in the tooth" is considered an anti-dentite slogan.
 
2012-08-31 02:56:54 AM  

Gunther: Really? I'm the first farker pedantic enough to point out it should be "hold the fort" not "hold down the fort"?

If I ask someone to "hold the fort", it's a pretty clear metaphor; there's a fort, I have to leave for a while, and I want them to stay and stop the Mongols getting in or whatever. I'm asking them to look after a specific location while I'm gone.

If I ask someone to "hold DOWN the fort"... Well that's meaningless. Why would you need to hold down a fort? Is it going to fly away? No. Some idiot just misheard the phrase one day, started using it wrong and other idiots copied him. Just stop it.


Depends on whether you're a limey or a yank.

Link
NSFW Language
 
2012-08-31 02:57:45 AM  
how about get bent
 
2012-08-31 02:59:35 AM  
There will eventually be only 4, maybe 5 safe, usable words in the english language.

Here's hoping mongoloid is one of them.
 
2012-08-31 03:00:49 AM  

robohobo: There will eventually be only 4, maybe 5 safe, usable words in the english language.

Here's hoping mongoloid is one of them.


Surprisingly, attractive and successful African American is still unacceptable in some circles.
 
2012-08-31 03:00:53 AM  
www.fugly.com
 
2012-08-31 03:07:40 AM  
Jackson did as well in South Carolina
Angry
Chicago
 
2012-08-31 03:09:41 AM  
The State Department's job is to speak diplomatically. The origins of their words don't matter, what matters is what the people they're speaking to think the word means.

They're going overboard, yes. But it's their job to go overboard with precision in language.
 
2012-08-31 03:09:50 AM  

timujin: Also... I wonder if forts existed before or outside of the need to protect ones self from the Native Americans?


I.m pretty sure the Romans had forts in Germania. It's probably something you want whenever you're settling somewhere where there's hostile natives.
 
2012-08-31 03:13:53 AM  
Don't offend them towel-wearing camel-jockeys. It's like they got sand in their vagina all the time.
 
2012-08-31 03:14:58 AM  
Nobody tell this guy about the sordid origins of most classic children's fairy tales.
 
2012-08-31 03:15:52 AM  
 
2012-08-31 03:16:46 AM  

Gunther: timujin: Also... I wonder if forts existed before or outside of the need to protect ones self from the Native Americans?

I.m pretty sure the Romans had forts in Germania. It's probably something you want whenever you're settling somewhere where there's

hostile natives.
 
2012-08-31 03:18:58 AM  
Thank goodness "You're a farking idiot" was not on the list.
 
2012-08-31 03:20:07 AM  
i308.photobucket.com

Come ON, what totally innocent term are we gonna pretend is racist next?? "Porch monkey"??
 
2012-08-31 03:20:27 AM  
*skims article* WTF?

img227.imageshack.us
 
2012-08-31 03:21:49 AM  
Kyrgan~

Well
 
2012-08-31 03:24:54 AM  
What about someone asking what the "Penal Codes" are in a particular country.
 
2012-08-31 03:27:06 AM  
I wonder if they got the idea that the "rule of thumb" is a reference to safe wife beating from Boondock Saints? Turns out a rule of thumb is literally using your thumb as a measuring device, like a ruler.
 
2012-08-31 03:28:42 AM  
A few months ago I told bible thumper at work , who has the attention span of a gnat, to "pull her head out of her ass and pay attention to what she is doing". Because she can always manage to fark up the most simple task. Her response to that was shock and a speech that had something to do about a womans body being a sacred thing blah blah blah. Then I rolled my eyes and walked out mid speech. Im suprised Im not in "sensitivity training".
 
2012-08-31 03:28:51 AM  
Regardless of the origination of some of our idioms, people are going to think what they're going to think. Sometimes you're gonna say something in-offensive and someone's still going to be offended. Not because of what you said but because that other person's a dick. I don't think many injuns ever gave thought to the expression "hold down the fort" as anything except the "take charge" expression that it is, unless they're addicted to John Wayne movies. The State Dept has better things to do (I hope) than play Grammar Czar Of The English Language (GCOTEL)
 
2012-08-31 03:36:31 AM  
As president of the local chapter of Flatulence Anonymous, I find the above posts referencing "hold the fart" to be discrimanatory, and I seek immediate damages and a large can of beans as compensation.
 
2012-08-31 03:41:13 AM  
Hey America, it's kinda funny when you do meaningless shiat like this, but please bear in mind that you stupidness rubs off on stupid people in the rest of the world.

I have heard someone calling black people african-american - and I live in Denmark... the blacks in question had NEVER been to the americas.

And we call them "neger" (comes from latin "niger" which means black). But of course, this has somehow become something that somebody (stupid white people) think is offensive to black people.
So now there are proponents in our society ousting the word "neger" as an offensive slur!

And I would like to point out, that the word "neger" has never been used as a slur in Denmark!
We had the exact same N-word you americans have (spelling and all), but it sort of fell out of use in the 70's, I think. (we didn't import our slaves back in the day, so the black people here came on their own accord, so we've never had the same tension as you have in America)

So what do those uneasy with the word "neger" want us to use?
Of course, they want us to use the word "sort" which is Danish for - you probably guessed it already - black.

So "neger", meaning black, is being replaced by another word meaning black. Brilliant!
And it's all out of misguided stupidity heavily inspired by what you Americans do.

So please contain you stupidity and quell the fark out it, please!
 
2012-08-31 03:43:32 AM  
So now we know what Hillary has been up to.
 
2012-08-31 03:46:51 AM  
Oh wow another scathing indictment by Fox News against our favored administration. I'm quaking in my farking boots.
 
2012-08-31 03:47:20 AM  
This is just a more covert form of Newspeak, really. It's a way of getting people to worry about the words being used, instead of the intent being conveyed. Sure, there are plenty of words that, in some contexts, are offensive; but those exact same words in OTHER contexts are perfectly innocuous.

The word "chink" is offensive if you are talking about, or to, a Chinese person, but "a chink in one's armor" has NOTHING to do with ethnic slurs. "Slope" is an awful phrase used when referring to someone from Vietnam, but absolutely essential when determining the "degree of slope" in architecture. It is wrong to call a black person a "spook", but not so much when you're talking about a spy.

Should people be more precise in their speech and writing, of course. Should we attempt to avoid racist, sexist and demeaning phrases, absolutely. But if we have to pre-censor our everyday speech because some words can be seen as offensive in some contexts, then we're just doing internally what the Ministry of Truth was doing in "1984": "The whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought...In the end, we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten."

And it doesn't matter whether the push comes from a desire to circumscribe human thought for evil intentions, or to prevent the thoughtless use of hurtful words. The end result is the same. People can't talk freely, and who do you think that will benefit in the long run?
 
2012-08-31 03:48:48 AM  

Gyrfalcon: This is just a more covert form of Newspeak, really. It's a way of getting people to worry about the words being used, instead of the intent being conveyed. Sure, there are plenty of words that, in some contexts, are offensive; but those exact same words in OTHER contexts are perfectly innocuous.

The word "chink" is offensive if you are talking about, or to, a Chinese person, but "a chink in one's armor" has NOTHING to do with ethnic slurs. "Slope" is an awful phrase used when referring to someone from Vietnam, but absolutely essential when determining the "degree of slope" in architecture. It is wrong to call a black person a "spook", but not so much when you're talking about a spy.

Should people be more precise in their speech and writing, of course. Should we attempt to avoid racist, sexist and demeaning phrases, absolutely. But if we have to pre-censor our everyday speech because some words can be seen as offensive in some contexts, then we're just doing internally what the Ministry of Truth was doing in "1984": "The whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought...In the end, we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten."

And it doesn't matter whether the push comes from a desire to circumscribe human thought for evil intentions, or to prevent the thoughtless use of hurtful words. The end result is the same. People can't talk freely, and who do you think that will benefit in the long run?


Yeah but you know what?

You're still speaking through a filter brought to us by Fox News.

What's really going on, I have to wonder.
 
2012-08-31 03:51:20 AM  
John Robinson should change his name as it might be offensive.

John Robinson was incremental in the acquisition of the Mayflower to invade North America and take it from the local Indian population. John Robinson was a pastor in the Church of England and that may offend atheists. John Robinson was also a Midwestern serial killer and the mention of his name may offend the families of those he killed.
 
2012-08-31 03:52:38 AM  

Drubell: Don't use sayings or phrases if you're writing things that might be viewed internationally because they're just not going to get it and wonder what the hell you're talking about. Some writer I know actually used "hold down the fort" in an article recently and some British people were asking what this even meant.


I work in Australia and I had a similar issue recently as well - I believe the term I used was something like "level a charge", which evidently is an American idiom.

I had no idea, because... well, being American, it's a common enough phrase.
 
2012-08-31 03:55:04 AM  
I just wish the TSA agents would stop referring to me as a pig in a poke.
 
2012-08-31 03:59:37 AM  

Gyrfalcon: And it doesn't matter whether the push comes from a desire to circumscribe human thought for evil intentions, or to prevent the thoughtless use of hurtful words. The end result is the same. People can't talk freely, and who do you think that will benefit in the long run?


Yes, diplomats being instructed to speak diplomatically is exactly like trying to control a population's thoughts using language (which itself was one of the more ludicrous elements of Orwell's already somewhat far-fetched dystopia).

If you don't want to mind how you speak, don't start a career where minding how you speak is a critically important skill.
 
2012-08-31 04:00:48 AM  

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: I just wish the TSA agents would stop referring to me as a pig in a poke.


I'm guessing it's the assless chaps.
 
2012-08-31 04:00:50 AM  
We really need some innovators in the area of racially/culturally offensive words and phrases. Something to liven up the language. There just isn't enough outrage these days.

Does outrage even mean anything anymore?
 
2012-08-31 04:06:10 AM  
This thread leaves me feeling gypped.

Can someone post a link to the real rule of thumb?
 
2012-08-31 04:09:02 AM  

Sum Dum Gai: Gyrfalcon: And it doesn't matter whether the push comes from a desire to circumscribe human thought for evil intentions, or to prevent the thoughtless use of hurtful words. The end result is the same. People can't talk freely, and who do you think that will benefit in the long run?

Yes, diplomats being instructed to speak diplomatically is exactly like trying to control a population's thoughts using language (which itself was one of the more ludicrous elements of Orwell's already somewhat far-fetched dystopia).

If you don't want to mind how you speak, don't start a career where minding how you speak is a critically important skill.


I'm guessing you missed the part where I said this: Should people be more precise in their speech and writing, of course. Should we attempt to avoid racist, sexist and demeaning phrases, absolutely. I said that for a reason. Diplomats shouldn't be using American slang in their daily work routine, duh.

That doesn't invalidate anything else I said, now, does it?
 
2012-08-31 04:25:00 AM  
So is the government going to create a new agency to police our phrase usage?
 
2012-08-31 04:26:49 AM  
The Dutch are the cheapest, stingiest farkers on Earth. Fact. Germans get 2nd place.
 
2012-08-31 04:27:41 AM  

Ebbelwoi: The Dutch are the cheapest, stingiest farkers on Earth. Fact. Germans get 2nd place.


You forgot the Jews.
 
2012-08-31 04:32:21 AM  

robohobo: Ebbelwoi: The Dutch are the cheapest, stingiest farkers on Earth. Fact. Germans get 2nd place.

You forgot the Jews.


You forgot Poland.
 
2012-08-31 04:34:11 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: He singled out another phrase, "Going Dutch," as a "negative stereotype portraying the Dutch as cheap."

Being cheap is just one of the many despicable attributes of the Dutch


My stepfather is Dutch. The are also by and large very racist.
 
2012-08-31 04:39:51 AM  
GranoblasticMan


"You forgot Poland."


Zey too are on ze list.
 
2012-08-31 04:41:42 AM  

Drubell: Don't use sayings or phrases if you're writing things that might be viewed internationally because they're just not going to get it and wonder what the hell you're talking about. Some writer I know actually used "hold down the fort" in an article recently and some British people were asking what this even meant.


We use "hold the fort", which actually makes sense (prevent the fort from being taken). Hold down the fort makes none, unless the fort is inflatable and filled with helium.
 
2012-08-31 04:42:08 AM  

robohobo: Ebbelwoi: The Dutch are the cheapest, stingiest farkers on Earth. Fact. Germans get 2nd place.

You forgot the Jews.


And the Ferrengis.
 
2012-08-31 04:44:11 AM  
Insert Sterling Archer talking about idioms.
 
2012-08-31 04:51:15 AM  

gameshowhost: AverageAmericanGuy: Johnny Bananapeel: Nobody ever mentions the obvious "keep your cotton pickin' hands off..." when they list these sorts of offensive phrases. 

[i.imgur.com image 443x290]

how much more ofendded do you think blakc people can get?

"400 years worth of being treated like shiat" offended. But that's just an estimate.


Black people are immortal?
 
2012-08-31 04:54:26 AM  

duffblue:
Black people are immortal?


No, but their playing the race card probably is.
 
2012-08-31 05:09:13 AM  

Gunther: Really? I'm the first farker pedantic enough to point out it should be "hold the fort" not "hold down the fort"?

If I ask someone to "hold the fort", it's a pretty clear metaphor; there's a fort, I have to leave for a while, and I want them to stay and stop the Mongols getting in or whatever. I'm asking them to look after a specific location while I'm gone.

If I ask someone to "hold DOWN the fort"... Well that's meaningless. Why would you need to hold down a fort? Is it going to fly away? No. Some idiot just misheard the phrase one day, started using it wrong and other idiots copied him. Just stop it.


"Hold down the fort" is an American idiom. "Hold the fort" is a Britishism. I don't know which came first. Googling the expression isn't yielding anything definitive.

If you have some proof that "hold the fort" was the original expression, by all means, post it.
 
2012-08-31 05:21:13 AM  

Pocket Ninja: Anybody who says "hold the fort" to you is nothing more than a lazy asshole who wants you to pick up their slack, and that's a documentable fact.


Or it's because they couldn't "hold in the fart".
 
2012-08-31 05:28:30 AM  

ciberido: Gunther: Really? I'm the first farker pedantic enough to point out it should be "hold the fort" not "hold down the fort"?

If I ask someone to "hold the fort", it's a pretty clear metaphor; there's a fort, I have to leave for a while, and I want them to stay and stop the Mongols getting in or whatever. I'm asking them to look after a specific location while I'm gone.

If I ask someone to "hold DOWN the fort"... Well that's meaningless. Why would you need to hold down a fort? Is it going to fly away? No. Some idiot just misheard the phrase one day, started using it wrong and other idiots copied him. Just stop it.

"Hold down the fort" is an American idiom. "Hold the fort" is a Britishism. I don't know which came first. Googling the expression isn't yielding anything definitive.

If you have some proof that "hold the fort" was the original expression, by all means, post it.


Well, my proof is that it actually makes sense as an expression. If you'd never heard the phrase before and someone told you to "hold the fort" you could puzzle out what it meant with a little rational thinking - it's a clear metaphor for looking after a place. OTOH, "hold down the fort" is something you're gonna need explained to you, as it's as meaningless a collection of words as "spic and span" or "tit for tat".
 
2012-08-31 05:38:04 AM  

DuncanMhor: Drubell: Don't use sayings or phrases if you're writing things that might be viewed internationally because they're just not going to get it and wonder what the hell you're talking about. Some writer I know actually used "hold down the fort" in an article recently and some British people were asking what this even meant.

We use "hold the fort", which actually makes sense (prevent the fort from being taken). Hold down the fort makes none, unless the fort is inflatable and filled with helium.


image.made-in-china.com

All it would take is one injun arrow to put an end to the fun and games in this place...
 
2012-08-31 05:41:04 AM  
Quite a lot of popular idioms have unseemly origins. It doesn't matter as long as nobody remembers them. Jesus, why did they have to tell me that "rule of thumb" is linked to wife-beating?
 
2012-08-31 05:47:22 AM  
 
2012-08-31 05:51:03 AM  

TwistedFark: Drubell: Don't use sayings or phrases if you're writing things that might be viewed internationally because they're just not going to get it and wonder what the hell you're talking about. Some writer I know actually used "hold down the fort" in an article recently and some British people were asking what this even meant.

I work in Australia and I had a similar issue recently as well - I believe the term I used was something like "level a charge", which evidently is an American idiom.

I had no idea, because... well, being American, it's a common enough phrase.


Isn't it "Levy a charge" or is this something else?
 
2012-08-31 05:51:10 AM  
Hey, it's close enough for government work.
 
2012-08-31 05:58:55 AM  

Badfysh: Isn't it "Levy a charge" or is this something else?


I think it's "levee a charge," and it's very offensive to New Orleanders.
 
2012-08-31 06:00:01 AM  

GranoblasticMan: robohobo: Ebbelwoi: The Dutch are the cheapest, stingiest farkers on Earth. Fact. Germans get 2nd place.

You forgot the Jews.

You forgot Poland.


And, the Scots.
 
2012-08-31 06:05:53 AM  

Gunther: Well, my proof is that it actually makes sense as an expression. If you'd never heard the phrase before and someone told you to "hold the fort" you could puzzle out what it meant with a little rational thinking - it's a clear metaphor for looking after a place. OTOH, "hold down the fort" is something you're gonna need explained to you, as it's as meaningless a collection of words as "spic and span" or "tit for tat".


First off, my question wasn't "Which makes more sense?" but "Which one came first?"

Second, they're both extremely idiomatic. No no-native speaker is going to "figure out" what a native English speaker means by "hold the fort" or "hold down the fort."

And third, no offense, but your opinion isn't proof of anything. If the idea that "hold down the fort" is a corruption of the older "hold the fort" matters enough to you that you want to convince me it's the actual etymology, then you're going to need, y'know, actual proof, not an argument (no matter how cogent) that it "makes more sense" or is "more logical."
 
2012-08-31 06:18:45 AM  

ciberido: First off, my question wasn't "Which makes more sense?" but "Which one came first?"


I don't care which comes first, though, and I'm not sure how you've come to the conclusion that my problem with "hold down the fort" is that it's too new.

I just care that "hold down the fort" doesn't make sense while "hold the fort" does. One is clearly a better saying than the other.
 
2012-08-31 06:42:06 AM  
Diversity Officer... Must be one of thos "your tax dollars at work" type positions
 
2012-08-31 06:55:15 AM  

Gunther: Really? I'm the first farker pedantic enough to point out it should be "hold the fort" not "hold down the fort"?

If I ask someone to "hold the fort", it's a pretty clear metaphor; there's a fort, I have to leave for a while, and I want them to stay and stop the Mongols getting in or whatever. I'm asking them to look after a specific location while I'm gone.

If I ask someone to "hold DOWN the fort"... Well that's meaningless. Why would you need to hold down a fort? Is it going to fly away? No. Some idiot just misheard the phrase one day, started using it wrong and other idiots copied him. Just stop it.


My favorite was the assemblyman who was forced to apologize for using the phrase "black hole" as in, "the mayors office is a black hole of money". Of course since the Mayor was a proud and successful African American, he was offended by this.

Then their was the guy who got into trouble for using the word nubianrdly. Look it up, it simply means cheap, and has nothing to do with the word n*ger. It's origin never had anything to due with race. It just sounds too close to n*ger.

Finally, there were the snow flakes that children made and put on the walls to celebrate winter. Any that were five or six pointed were ripped off the walls. because any five pointed snowflake could represent a Christian star, and a six pointed snowflake a Jewish one.

/sometimes I weep for my country.
 
2012-08-31 06:55:59 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org

Well raise my rent....
 
2012-08-31 06:59:43 AM  
He should have inveighed against "at the end of the day" and "at this point in time" instead.
 
2012-08-31 07:03:23 AM  

gameshowhost: AverageAmericanGuy: Johnny Bananapeel: Nobody ever mentions the obvious "keep your cotton pickin' hands off..." when they list these sorts of offensive phrases. 

[i.imgur.com image 443x290]

how much more ofendded do you think blakc people can get?

"400 years worth of being treated like shiat" offended. But that's just an estimate.


I suggest they get their sensitive asses over it.
 
2012-08-31 07:12:00 AM  

bifford: Quite a lot of popular idioms have unseemly origins. It doesn't matter as long as nobody remembers them. Jesus, why did they have to tell me that "rule of thumb" is linked to wife-beating?


The only origin I remember for has to do with measuring wheat at a mill during the 1500's, and it has to do with checking the quality by pinching it with your finger and thumb. Anything that didn't filter down from the hand was rejected. I remember it basically as a rule of quality control.
 
2012-08-31 07:12:35 AM  

Electric_Banana: In Nomine Patri, Et Fili, Et Spiritus Sancti.


Filii. Every good Latin American knows that.
 
2012-08-31 07:21:42 AM  
'Hold down the fort'- I often see this phrase used in situations where there is no 'attack' to 'hold the fort' against. It always seemed to me to be more, I dunno- humorous way of saying 'there's nothing happening right now, the biggest issue is that the place might dry up and blow away, so stay here and make sure that doesn't happen'. Kinda like referring to someone leaning an a wall as 'holding up the wall'.
 
2012-08-31 07:23:24 AM  
The Dutch get it bad. I have heard it dates from English wars with them. Some of the common ones:

Dutch courage: Drunk
Dutch wife: Long tubular bolster pillow often used in the tropics
Dutch treat: Everyone pays separately
Double Dutch: Confusing language

French get it to:

French leave: Unauthorized leave
French letter: Condom

...and then there are the Greeks
 
2012-08-31 07:27:31 AM  
Is "Screwed the pooch" still okay?
 
2012-08-31 07:31:20 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: He singled out another phrase, "Going Dutch," as a "negative stereotype portraying the Dutch as cheap."

Being cheap is just one of the many despicable attributes of the Dutch


I thought "Going Dutch" meant you were delightfully progressive and non-sexist.on a date.
 
2012-08-31 07:35:36 AM  
Chief Diversity Officer John Robinson: Slob.
 
2012-08-31 07:36:01 AM  
I'm forced to wonder, when it comes to political correctness: how many turns of phrase have been banned because someone has actually complained, versus how many are banned because of projections: fear of complaints, rather than any actual documented instances of offense?

I ask, because there's a difference between sensitivity and paranoia, and this difference does in fact cut both ways. What does it say about someone who believes people of other cultures are so hypersensitive that one must walk on eggshells around them and head off every idiom at the pass?
 
2012-08-31 07:37:38 AM  

RamboFrog: They can't use those phrases? Honest Injun?


Lord willing and the creek don't rise
 
2012-08-31 07:37:51 AM  

Frederf: Insert Sterling Archer talking about idioms.


i.ebayimg.com

Done. But he doesn't seem to be in a talkative mood. Unless you count a clothyard shaft as a conversation.
 
2012-08-31 07:38:55 AM  

qualtrough: French get it to:

French leave: Unauthorized leave
French letter: Condom


French Asthma: You can only catch your breath in snatches.
 
2012-08-31 07:39:08 AM  

RamboFrog: They can't use those phrases? Honest Injun?


They go on the warpath if you do.
 
2012-08-31 07:40:41 AM  
i1253.photobucket.com
So this guy sits in a taxpayer funded BIG GOVT office, collects a large taxpayer funded BIG GOVT paycheck and his job is to dredge up dopey politically incorrect sayings that could offend someone if you explain to them why it should offend them.
 
2012-08-31 07:47:59 AM  

Krieghund: The State Department's job is to speak diplomatically. The origins of their words don't matter, what matters is what the people they're speaking to think the word means.

They're going overboard, yes. But it's their job to go overboard with precision in language.


How do you precisely say "FARK OFF, State Department"?
 
2012-08-31 07:52:42 AM  
Do please recall that this IS the State Department.

The office of the government that is entirely concerned with DIPLOMACY
 
2012-08-31 07:53:46 AM  
Dammit. How did I miss Krieghund
 
2012-08-31 07:57:13 AM  
He singled out another phrase, "Going Dutch," as a "negative stereotype portraying the Dutch as cheap."

Being cheap is just one of the many despicable attributes of the Dutch



I didn't realize we had the Anti-Dutch spewing their right wing propaganda on FARK.
Fascists!

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-31 08:08:30 AM  

OhioKnight: Do please recall that this IS the State Department.

The office of the government that is entirely concerned with DIPLOMACY


Sorry, man, but they are off the reservation, here.
 
2012-08-31 08:08:44 AM  
I'm getting a kick and all since I work for the State Department. What is interesting is that I haven't read this memo!

For those of us in te Foreign Service we do get 'cables' (a holdover from when all our official messages were telegrams) about our annual evaluations and to not use cliches...he/she hit the ground running when he/she arrived at post...that sort of thing.
 
2012-08-31 08:11:24 AM  

miltonbabbitt: Rule of thumb?

[media.tumblr.com image 500x370]


Came for this.
 
2012-08-31 08:13:19 AM  
Anyone with the word "diversity" in their title for a job is a racist asshat and really needs to go.
 
2012-08-31 08:15:58 AM  

bifford: Quite a lot of popular idioms have unseemly origins. It doesn't matter as long as nobody remembers them. Jesus, why did they have to tell me that "rule of thumb" is linked to wife-beating?


You prolly don't wanna know that "Good morning Sunshine" was said to slaves working in the field. (Sun would glisten off of sweaty backs, etc)

Too lazy to look for a citation.

People are against this sort of PC thing until something is said about them or their ancestry.
 
2012-08-31 08:16:40 AM  
Sounds like they are just"nit picking" .
 
2012-08-31 08:18:45 AM  
Fine, then I will use "Don't fark up shiat while I am gone".

/why all Diversity gotta be AA peeps, can I gets me an Indian or Latino up in heah?
 
2012-08-31 08:18:56 AM  
www.southernlandscapes.com

Beating around the bush -- can we still use that?
 
2012-08-31 08:20:35 AM  
In college I got into an arguement with my entire [reguired] Racism and Sexism class, that the phrase "the pot calling the kettle black" was, in fact, not a racist phrase.

/csb
 
2012-08-31 08:25:20 AM  
perhaps I should have taken remedial spelling instead
 
2012-08-31 08:35:02 AM  
This is a plus plus good solution.
 
2012-08-31 08:37:12 AM  

Badfysh: TwistedFark: Drubell: Don't use sayings or phrases if you're writing things that might be viewed internationally because they're just not going to get it and wonder what the hell you're talking about. Some writer I know actually used "hold down the fort" in an article recently and some British people were asking what this even meant.

I work in Australia and I had a similar issue recently as well - I believe the term I used was something like "level a charge", which evidently is an American idiom.

I had no idea, because... well, being American, it's a common enough phrase.

Isn't it "Levy a charge" or is this something else?


It's "Levi a Claude-Strauss," and it's very offensive to anthropologists.
 
2012-08-31 08:38:10 AM  

fusillade762: And "rule of thumb," he wrote, can according to women's activists refer "to an antiquated law, whereby the width of a husband's thumb was the legal size of a switch or rod allowed to beat his wife."

Someone needs to learn how to use the Googles.


That is searchenginist. It implies that Bing is somehow inferior.
 
2012-08-31 08:39:10 AM  
FRIT - FARK Racist Identification Thread.

Thanks subby. These are useful tools. The early identification helps avoid stress later in other threads, when I can safely replace:

"omg! Are they serious?! - RAGE"

with

"oh look...it's Submoron #12 agaIn...how quaint."
 
2012-08-31 08:43:46 AM  
So is using the term "c*nt hair" wrong too?
I always thought it was an official unit of measurement.
 
2012-08-31 08:45:53 AM  
Whew! I'm glad I gave up using the word handicap a long time ago. I find "gimp" much more to the point.
 
2012-08-31 08:50:44 AM  

timujin: And now refers to a drink made with a popular Irish beverage. Ferfuxake, people, grow a little skin. "Choose my word carefully" Mr. Robinson? Aight, I'm very carefully calling you a dumbass.


Um, the roll out specifically mentioned the Irish in the ads, and, in Ireland, it's offensive. It's not even a drink most people will order because the name is so offensive. That's 10 kinds of stupid.
 
2012-08-31 08:53:40 AM  

timujin: Robinson cited the cautionary tale of Nike rolling out a "Black and Tan" sneaker without realizing the phrase once referred to a group "that committed atrocities against Irish civilians." Nike later apologized.

And now refers to a drink made with a popular Irish beverage. Ferfuxake, people, grow a little skin. "Choose my word carefully" Mr. Robinson? Aight, I'm very carefully calling you a dumbass.


Actually, no, not so much, Not gonna comhment on the broader phenomenon being discussed here, but that particular example is wrong Ordering a black and tan in much of Ireland will get you glared at or just plain ignored.

/And under NO circumstances you EVER order a carbomb by that name.
 
2012-08-31 08:58:49 AM  
New rule: Before a word or phrase is prohibited, a member of the group in question has to complain first. 

/You bunch of Neanderthals.
 
2012-08-31 09:15:26 AM  
Lock, stock, and barrel-- Going to offend someone as the original meaning is a reference to a gun.
Dutch actually used to refer to Germans, at some point it was shifted to mean people from the Netherlands, originally came from Deutsche. [I am OK with it being used to insult Germans too.]
Ticket scalping--Better drop that one, along with honest injun, Indian giver, on the warpath, and Indian summer.
High on the hog--Said to originate with black slaves who when a pig was slaughtered got the lower less desirable portions while the whites got the loin meat (from the back of the hog).
Sold down the river--Selling of slaves.
Pipe dream--Opium smoking, had racial connotations due to the Chinese running opium dens.
 
2012-08-31 09:25:48 AM  
T.S.
 
2012-08-31 09:28:01 AM  
I'm still kind of amazed the State Department (primarily responsible for foreign diplomacy) has a chief diversity officer ("chief" suggesting there may be diversity underlings as well). Couldn't we have the State Department devoted to, you know, advancing our interests worldwide via diplomacy rather than concerning itself with being politically correct during watercooler conversations in the hall?
 
2012-08-31 09:28:09 AM  

DreamSnipers: Ticket scalping


Why is that bad if it has historical connotations and was something that was used as intimidation? I don't get why Native Americans are offended by it (i don't use it, just want to understand). The people who should be offended are the people whose ancestors were scalped, which includes anybody who came to America or inhabited it. The only thing I can relate to it is if head hurlers was a phrase which I'm not at all offended by.

I basically see the denial of that phrase as a half-ass attempt considering Andrew Jackson is on the twenty dollar bill.
 
2012-08-31 09:31:55 AM  

Snarfangel: New rule: Before a word or phrase is prohibited, a member of the group in question has to complain first. 

/You bunch of Neanderthals.


When I was growing up the father of one of my friends told the following joke:

He used to work in the Pentagon (he did, which is part of what made the joke good) and he was on the staff of a general from Minnesota. He used the guys name, but I can't recall it. And when the general was first introducing himself to the staff he said, "I'm from Minnesota and up there we have Sven and Ole jokes, so these two Norwegians, Sven and Ole..." At this point his assistant interrupts him and says, "Sir, I'm afraid you can't tell jokes about a particular ethnic group anymore. Somebody might find it offensive." So the general asks "well, who can I tell jokes about?" The assistant responds that he'll get back to him in a few weeks when a study panel decides. So weeks pass and at a weekly staff meeting the assistant says to the general that the panel has come up with a conclusion. "Sir, you can tell Hittite jokes. They lived in modern Turkey, they died out without leaving modern cultures that really claim them... if you know Hittite jokes you can tell them." The general thanks the assistant and starts the meeting by saying, "So, there were these two Hittites, Sven and Ole...."
 
2012-08-31 09:37:49 AM  

Public Savant: (we didn't import our slaves back in the day


Typically you dropped them off in the Caribbean.
 
2012-08-31 09:40:50 AM  

gameshowhost: AverageAmericanGuy: Johnny Bananapeel: Nobody ever mentions the obvious "keep your cotton pickin' hands off..." when they list these sorts of offensive phrases. 

[i.imgur.com image 443x290]

how much more ofendded do you think blakc people can get?

"400 years worth of being treated like shiat" offended. But that's just an estimate.


Try being Irish, we have much longer than 400 years.
 
2012-08-31 09:43:24 AM  
This guy gets paid for doing this?

It's kind of like the Monty Python 'Government Offices for making Silly Things Up.'

I think it's time to start worrying much less about being 'racially offensive' and more about being 'racially compatible.' A lot of folks don't even know they're 'offending' or being 'offended' until someone like this comes along and tells them.

'Hold down the fort' could also apply to the Spanish, who built forts in every new land they colonized. The 'Rule of Thumb' as I know it, used to be the distance from the first joint of the King's thumb to the tip as a measurement of an inch. The yard was also the length of the monarchs' arm from shoulder to tips of fingers.

It's starting to reach the point where if you open your mouth and speak, you're going to insult some race or religion no matter what you do.

Time for folks to stop being babies.
 
2012-08-31 09:45:48 AM  

Girion47: gameshowhost: AverageAmericanGuy: Johnny Bananapeel: Nobody ever mentions the obvious "keep your cotton pickin' hands off..." when they list these sorts of offensive phrases. 

[i.imgur.com image 443x290]

how much more ofendded do you think blakc people can get?

"400 years worth of being treated like shiat" offended. But that's just an estimate.

Try being Irish, we have much longer than 400 years.


You're like the red-headed stepchildren of Europe. You guys got gypped.
 
2012-08-31 09:50:12 AM  

This text is now purple: You're like the red-headed stepchildren of Europe. You guys got gypped.


I think people of the Jewish faith got the shiat end of every stick by everybody.
 
2012-08-31 09:50:36 AM  

loral: T.S.


Eliot or Venture?
 
2012-08-31 09:51:26 AM  
I just read Bill Bryson's "made in America", which discusses various americanisms so I'm getting a kick...

/doesn't address the rule of thumb or fort holding saying unfortunately
 
2012-08-31 09:56:15 AM  

thecpt: This text is now purple: You're like the red-headed stepchildren of Europe. You guys got gypped.

I think people of the Jewish faith got the shiat end of every stick by everybody.


Noone likes a braggart

"oh look at us we're CHOSEN by God, you're all heathens"
 
2012-08-31 10:05:50 AM  
This reminds me of when my wife was in college and had a full-immersion sign-language class to attend. Apparently, some people were up-in-arms about the word "deaf." They said it was demeaning to non-hearing people. They were trying to be so loud as to disrupt the class. The irony is that the students were required to wear earplugs so they wouldn't be distracted by sounds and could experience what it's like being deaf. After a week of this, the president of Gallaudet showed up for an assembly to explain that they were being douchebags who had no idea what they were talking about. "Deaf" is a word proudly used by those in that community.

Also, I wonder if they'll eventually get around to having a sensitivity training course where the final test is to sit down and watch "Blazing Saddles." More than a couple of laughs and you're fired.
 
2012-08-31 10:08:46 AM  
Because People in power are Stupid

RoyBatty: Origin of the phrase "Hold down the fort" (to be pedantic, it should've been "Hold down the castle")

Link

No, I'm quite certain the phrase is "Hold in the fart". You are mistaken.

You are both wrong, I believe it is
'Hold down the Teepee'

Which historically was a neccesity in tornado and hurricane seasons.
 
2012-08-31 10:11:19 AM  
This just in, everything you say can be seen as insensitive by some group, somewhere. I'm sure that this just offended someone
 
2012-08-31 10:18:44 AM  

Bermuda59: everything you say can be seen as insensitive by some group


Anyone who is blind yes. You have to establish that everything can be interpreted as insensitive by some person, entity, or group. Did I just offend someone, something, some entity, or some group?
 
2012-08-31 10:19:06 AM  
My wife got severely repremanded for saying one of the school kids children was 'working like a Trojan"
 
2012-08-31 10:24:51 AM  
Let's assume "hold down the fort" refers to our frontier days and fighting the Indians--
(the ones I've met call themselves Indian and not Native American, but who knows... I'm still amazed Indians stuck as a term)-- doesn't that glorify a period in our history anyway? So what? Might as well stop July 4th from being a holiday, we were at war with England and they are our friends now and they speak English.

This reminds me of when there was a big movement to change sports teams like the FSU Seminoles,
because it was so obviously offensive -- that they forgot to ask the tribe, who generally aren't offended by it and generally like being the mascot.
 
2012-08-31 10:29:19 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Johnny Bananapeel: Nobody ever mentions the obvious "keep your cotton pickin' hands off..." when they list these sorts of offensive phrases. 

[i.imgur.com image 443x290]

how much more ofendded do you think black people can get?



Much more, and there'll be real danger of a singularity forming.
 
2012-08-31 10:44:40 AM  
If "hold down the fort" specifically refers to protecting a fort from native american indian attacks then there it is impossible to use it in any other context. Because it would require a fort and some attacking natives. Plus it also helps keep out mexicans.
 
sp
2012-08-31 11:07:25 AM  
The bigger problem is that the State Dept. has a diversity officer. What a farking joke.
 
2012-08-31 11:08:34 AM  
For all intensive purposes this article is just a blow hard wanting to hear themselves talk irregardless of the consequences.
 
2012-08-31 11:11:15 AM  

timujin: fusillade762: And "rule of thumb," he wrote, can according to women's activists refer "to an antiquated law, whereby the width of a husband's thumb was the legal size of a switch or rod allowed to beat his wife."

Someone needs to learn how to use the Googles.

This.

Also... I wonder if forts existed before or outside of the need to protect ones self from the Native Americans?

Robinson cited the cautionary tale of Nike rolling out a "Black and Tan" sneaker without realizing the phrase once referred to a group "that committed atrocities against Irish civilians." Nike later apologized.

And now refers to a drink made with a popular Irish beverage. Ferfuxake, people, grow a little skin. "Choose my word carefully" Mr. Robinson? Aight, I'm very carefully calling you a dumbass.


A "Black and Tan" also referred to a bar where interracial couples could hang out in Detroit in the 1940s and 50s.
 
2012-08-31 11:14:58 AM  

Deman: I wonder if they got the idea that the "rule of thumb" is a reference to safe wife beating from Boondock Saints? Turns out a rule of thumb is literally using your thumb as a measuring device, like a ruler.


An inch is literally 'a thumb's length,' like a foot is, well, you know, and a yard is from the tip of one hand to the other with the arms outstretched.

However, misinformed opinion never let facts get in the way.
 
2012-08-31 11:21:44 AM  
Scot-free?
 
2012-08-31 11:25:29 AM  

sp: The bigger problem is that the State Dept. has a diversity officer. What a farking joke.


I agree. It should just be white people that work there.
 
2012-08-31 11:28:56 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: sp: The bigger problem is that the State Dept. has a diversity officer. What a farking joke.

I agree. It should just be white people that work there.


I hear that qualified white Amharic and Swahili speakers are being denied jobs because of affirmative action
 
2012-08-31 11:29:23 AM  

RY28: Sounds like they are just"nit picking" .


A nit is a louse egg.
 
2012-08-31 11:35:13 AM  

Preble's Boy: Scot-free?


That actually comes from a quirk in Scottish law. In England, you were either proven guilty or proven innocent at court. In Scotland, there was a third option, 'not proven guilty,' in which the court couldn't show absolute guilt, nor innocence. Sort of like a hung jury.
 
2012-08-31 11:40:12 AM  
In related candy news, this is now banned on premises

ozbo.com
 
2012-08-31 11:41:22 AM  
In the end, I think they shouldn't tinker with this.
 
2012-08-31 11:42:07 AM  
Ban blackboard - offensive to blacks.
Ban whiteboard - offensive to non-whites.
Ban Noboboard - offensive to other manufacturers.

When all words are banned, we will be dumb - and that's offensive.
 
2012-08-31 11:44:07 AM  
Fun fact about "rule of thumb:" It's been used for 500 years, and originally has nothing to do with wife-beating. Nobody would make the association if it hadn't been for a judge in the 1790s who decided to dismiss charges against a man because the stick he used to hit his wife with was thinner than his thumb, causing the judge to be lampooned in the British press, and the phrase thus to be associated with domestic abuse.

/TMYK
 
2012-08-31 11:44:43 AM  

bubbler86: For all intensive purposes this article is just a blow hard wanting to hear themselves talk irregardless of the consequences.


+1 for this. Unless that wasn't your witty intent. If it was unintentional, I'm sorry that you hate your job flipping burgers.
 
2012-08-31 11:46:06 AM  
armedrobbery.files.wordpress.com

Oops, wrong Kingfish

8mm16mmfilmscollectibles.com

That's better 

"Allow me to hallucinate ..."
 
2012-08-31 12:04:36 PM  

Launch Code: [i1253.photobucket.com image 284x177]
So this guy sits in a taxpayer funded BIG GOVT office, collects a large taxpayer funded BIG GOVT paycheck and his job is to dredge up dopey politically incorrect sayings that could offend someone if you explain to them why it should offend them.


No, his job is to help diplomatic personnel be more diplomatic. You can be a brave politically correct rebel to your heart's content. You can even call people you don't agree with "sheeple" if that makes you feel all proud and edgy.
 
2012-08-31 12:05:54 PM  
Liberals run amok. This department should be abolished.
 
2012-08-31 12:06:18 PM  

Millennium: I'm forced to wonder, when it comes to political correctness: how many turns of phrase have been banned because someone has actually complained, versus how many are banned because of projections: fear of complaints, rather than any actual documented instances of offense?

I ask, because there's a difference between sensitivity and paranoia, and this difference does in fact cut both ways. What does it say about someone who believes people of other cultures are so hypersensitive that one must walk on eggshells around them and head off every idiom at the pass?


More than we know, I'd imagine.

There is a guy--I'd have to source the story, it's been a while--who routinely reviews vanity plate applications, and complains in advance if he feels they are derogatory towards Native Americans. While I can't fault him for his actions (I can, but for a different reason), the story annoys me because the various DMVs he's challenged usually pull the plates because ONE GUY thinks they are derogatory. Nobody else is complaining, and yet this guy's unique sensitivity makes agencies fall all over themselves not to upset him.
 
2012-08-31 12:16:50 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Millennium: I'm forced to wonder, when it comes to political correctness: how many turns of phrase have been banned because someone has actually complained, versus how many are banned because of projections: fear of complaints, rather than any actual documented instances of offense?

I ask, because there's a difference between sensitivity and paranoia, and this difference does in fact cut both ways. What does it say about someone who believes people of other cultures are so hypersensitive that one must walk on eggshells around them and head off every idiom at the pass?

More than we know, I'd imagine.

There is a guy--I'd have to source the story, it's been a while--who routinely reviews vanity plate applications, and complains in advance if he feels they are derogatory towards Native Americans. While I can't fault him for his actions (I can, but for a different reason), the story annoys me because the various DMVs he's challenged usually pull the plates because ONE GUY thinks they are derogatory. Nobody else is complaining, and yet this guy's unique sensitivity makes agencies fall all over themselves not to upset him.



Exactly this. We're a nation of 300 million people, and if we keep setting legal precedent that allows a single person (or statistically similar groups) to obstruct public works based on little more than "feelings," our ability to actually accomplish things at all, let alone on time and budget, will only further degrade. I'm reminded of a park in San Francisco, construction of which is now months and months behind schedule, due to a single neighborhood resident who apparently has nothing but time on her hands and loves to file paperwork. And people rage about how long it has taken to reconstruct the WTC, but it's not the construction phase that caused the problem - it's exactly this issue, feelings run amok and every last cousin of anyone remotely associated with the tragedy gumming up the works with their opinions on what should be done.
 
2012-08-31 12:17:36 PM  
"Long pole in the tent" seems to be a common one in the M&A world at the moment, or is that "long Pole in the tent"?
 
2012-08-31 12:19:05 PM  
Ah, the joys of diversity and multi-culturalism.
 
2012-08-31 12:35:13 PM  

thecpt: Why is that bad if it has historical connotations and was something that was used as intimidation? I don't get why Native Americans are offended by it (i don't use it, just want to understand). The people who should be offended are the people whose ancestors were scalped, which includes anybody who came to America or inhabited it. The only thing I can relate to it is if head hurlers was a phrase which I'm not at all offended by.


Here's a thought. If a group of people are offended by a word or expression, take a little time to research the history behind it before throwing up your hands and crying "I don't get it!"

It's not that hard to read up a brief synopsis of the history.

A lot of these, like picnic or the word I can't even cite as an example without getting pwned by the Fark filter are based on ignorance. "Scalping" is not such a case.
 
2012-08-31 01:02:10 PM  

fusillade762: And "rule of thumb," he wrote, can according to women's activists refer "to an antiquated law, whereby the width of a husband's thumb was the legal size of a switch or rod allowed to beat his wife."

Someone needs to learn how to use the Googles.


You dont understand. In PC-land it does not matter the the offended person is an idiot and has no farking clue as to what they are talking about. If a member of a protected group is offended then you are at fault and must be punished even if you nothing wrong.
 
2012-08-31 01:21:48 PM  

booger42: bifford: Quite a lot of popular idioms have unseemly origins. It doesn't matter as long as nobody remembers them. Jesus, why did they have to tell me that "rule of thumb" is linked to wife-beating?

You prolly don't wanna know that "Good morning Sunshine" was said to slaves working in the field. (Sun would glisten off of sweaty backs, etc)

Too lazy to look for a citation.

People are against this sort of PC thing until something is said about them or their ancestry.


Until then it's a cakewalk.
 
2012-08-31 01:37:53 PM  
24.media.tumblr.com 

WINONA: So, where are we gonna go eat?
JERRY: I thought we'd eat at the Gentle Harvest.
WINONA: Ooh, I love that place, but it's usually so crowded. Can we get a table?
JERRY: Ah, don't worry. I made reser... (catches himself)
WINONA: You made what?
JERRY: I uh, I uh, I arranged for the appropriate accommodations. And then, Knick tickets, floor seats.
WINONA: How did you get these?
JERRY: Got 'em on the street, from a scal... (catches himself again)
WINONA: From who?
JERRY: A uh, one of those guys.
WINONA: What guys?
JERRY: You know, the guys, that uh, they sell the tickets for the sold-out events.
 
2012-08-31 01:46:38 PM  

ciberido: thecpt: Why is that bad if it has historical connotations and was something that was used as intimidation? I don't get why Native Americans are offended by it (i don't use it, just want to understand). The people who should be offended are the people whose ancestors were scalped, which includes anybody who came to America or inhabited it. The only thing I can relate to it is if head hurlers was a phrase which I'm not at all offended by.

Here's a thought. If a group of people are offended by a word or expression, take a little time to research the history behind it before throwing up your hands and crying "I don't get it!"

It's not that hard to read up a brief synopsis of the history.

A lot of these, like picnic or the word I can't even cite as an example without getting pwned by the Fark filter are based on ignorance. "Scalping" is not such a case.


So I knew a little about the topic but yet again due to highschool history not covering a topic truthfully or to the correct extent I did not know the all of what was in the Wikipedia article. Still nearly everybody did it, and nearly everybody was effected by it way beyond the scope of what I originally knew. So I don't get why one group is offended by it. Its a farked up act in the first place along with the near genocide of multitudes of cultures, but that the act was how people got payed is the offensive part?

I also don't understand why you posted the picnic false thing. It says its innocent. Are you saying the ignorance is by those who believe it?

Finally, pineapple
 
2012-08-31 02:31:58 PM  

Krieghund: The State Department's job is to speak diplomatically. The origins of their words don't matter, what matters is what the people they're speaking to think the word means.

They're going overboard, yes. But it's their job to go overboard with precision in language.


Exactly.

Advising DIPLOMATS to be culturally sensitive, and then giving them guidance that may help them avoid misunderstanding (or worse, unintentional offense) is something that is, y'know, kind of NECESSARY FOR THE JOB.

But don't let common sense, facts, or the realities of international diplomacy get in the way of a chance to pretend the government is enforcing a strict PC code, or whatever variation of that the Right Wing professes to believe to generate outrage this week.
 
2012-08-31 02:32:01 PM  
He forgot to mention changing "N***er Rigged" to the much more culturally sensitive "Afro-Engineered".

I also don't get why "Black and Tan" would be offensive. Black and Tans are what I like to down at the pub before I go home and give the old lady a pair of Irish sunglasses.
 
2012-08-31 02:38:30 PM  

Launch Code: [i1253.photobucket.com image 284x177]
So this guy sits in a taxpayer funded BIG GOVT office, collects a large taxpayer funded BIG GOVT paycheck and his job is to dredge up dopey politically incorrect sayings that could offend someone if you explain to them why it should offend them.


No, this guy is an analyst whose job is to address legitimate civil rights concerns of the citizens of this great nation. He is also, in this case, providing TO THE FARKING DIPLOMATIC CORPS (that's who works in the state department) advice on phrasing that may be seen as culturally insensitive or incomprehensible, because it's his area of expertise, and because IF YOU WORK IN THE STATE DEPARTMENT, you need to be hyper-aware of your speech. Because that's kind of a job requirement, when you work in an environment where a stray word can cost millions of dollars and possibly even lives.
 
2012-08-31 02:48:59 PM  
So if he were explaining this to diplomats, he should use phrases that will be offensive in certain contexts. Like if one is posted to Japan, one may not want to say "NUKE'EM!" when they want some microwave popcorn. The fact he used American idiom shows him to be an idiot. OR....political correctness run amok... OR both, can never leave out that option.
 
2012-08-31 02:55:37 PM  

Straelbora: An inch is literally 'a thumb's length,' like a foot is, well, you know, and a yard is from the tip of one hand to the other with the arms outstretched.


In front of you, maybe (closer to a foot). Arms outstretched is about two yards.
 
2012-08-31 03:29:26 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: He singled out another phrase, "Going Dutch," as a "negative stereotype portraying the Dutch as cheap."

Being cheap is just one of the many despicable attributes of the Dutch


Flooding usenet with stuff subbed or dubbed in their horror language and not indicating it in the description is another.
 
2012-08-31 03:46:23 PM  
Bah!

Regardless of the doubtful origins of the current understanding of the 'rule of thumb' (which I personally really like, mostly because it is polite).

The non-polite response is: us males/husbands were allowed to rape and abuse with abandon and if she complained, we could kill her or we could complain to her family, and she would suffer (just like a few outback barbarian areas of our rock today, which we consciously and actively ignore whilst enjoying latte.)
 
2012-08-31 03:54:59 PM  

BigNumber12: AverageAmericanGuy: Johnny Bananapeel: Nobody ever mentions the obvious "keep your cotton pickin' hands off..." when they list these sorts of offensive phrases. 

[i.imgur.com image 443x290]

how much more ofendded do you think black people can get?


Much more, and there'll be real danger of a singularity forming.


Dividing by Nubian?
 
2012-08-31 04:24:18 PM  

Straelbora: A nit is a louse egg.


Are you saying that Laotians are monotremes? Bigot.
 
2012-08-31 05:26:25 PM  

Gunther: Really? I'm the first farker pedantic enough to point out it should be "hold the fort" not "hold down the fort"?

If I ask someone to "hold the fort", it's a pretty clear metaphor; there's a fort, I have to leave for a while, and I want them to stay and stop the Mongols getting in or whatever. I'm asking them to look after a specific location while I'm gone.

If I ask someone to "hold DOWN the fort"... Well that's meaningless. Why would you need to hold down a fort? Is it going to fly away? No. Some idiot just misheard the phrase one day, started using it wrong and other idiots copied him. Just stop it.


I got a laugh at work about this smartarse comment

I work in an office with, among other people, a dark lady from Calcutta. My boss asked me to "hold the fort" while he went for lunch. When he came back he asked me "did you hold the fort?" I said "Yes, but it didn't work." "Why?" "Because (slightly whispering) there's an INDIAN here!"
 
2012-08-31 07:02:38 PM  
Wonder how they feel about "Blow it Out Your Ass".
 
2012-08-31 07:09:04 PM  

jvowles: L

No, this guy is an analyst whose job is to address legitimate civil rights concerns of the citizens of this great nation. He is also, in this case, providing TO THE FARKING DIPLOMATIC CORPS (that's who works in the state department) advice on phrasing that may be seen as culturally insensitive or incomprehensible, because it's his area of expertise, and because IF YOU WORK IN THE STATE DEPARTMENT, you need to be hyper-aware of your speech. Because that's kind of a job requirement, when you work in an environment where a stray word can cost millions of dollars and possibly even lives.


Then maybe he should do his job and not quote urban myths that are so obvious even snopes has them listed.
 
2012-08-31 07:36:59 PM  

clivecusslerfan:
Also, I wonder if they'll eventually get around to having a sensitivity training course where the final test is to sit down and watch "Blazing Saddles." More than a couple of laughs and you're fired.


Has anyone pointed out that the racists are the ones being made fun of in Blazing Saddles?

/farking dumbass cracker.
 
2012-08-31 08:21:27 PM  
"English, do you speak it? It is the Lingua Franca, no?"
 
2012-08-31 08:22:02 PM  

Indubitably: "English, do you speak it? It is the Lingua Franca, no?"


Oui.
 
2012-08-31 08:58:04 PM  

actualhuman: clivecusslerfan:
Also, I wonder if they'll eventually get around to having a sensitivity training course where the final test is to sit down and watch "Blazing Saddles." More than a couple of laughs and you're fired.

Has anyone pointed out that the racists are the ones being made fun of in Blazing Saddles?

/farking dumbass cracker.


When did something like that ever matter to people who present sensitivity training courses? If it sounds like it might be offensive to someone, somewhere, it MUST be stopped.
 
2012-08-31 11:39:31 PM  

This text is now purple: Straelbora: An inch is literally 'a thumb's length,' like a foot is, well, you know, and a yard is from the tip of one hand to the other with the arms outstretched.

In front of you, maybe (closer to a foot). Arms outstretched is about two yards.


Yep- I wasn't thinking- it was supposed to be from the midline of the chest to the outstretched hand. I've still seen people in traditional markets throughout the world measure things like cloth in this manner.
 
2012-08-31 11:41:48 PM  

Captain Dan: Straelbora: A nit is a louse egg.

Are you saying that Laotians are monotremes? Bigot.


BIGot? Is that some sort of size-ist slur?
 
2012-09-01 12:49:03 AM  
The "scot" in "scot-free" does not refer to a Scott; it refers to a scot, which was a payment. If you got away scot-free, you got away without paying. Citation and citation.

The whole "rule of thumb" thing is totally invented, not least because there never was any such law. Anyone who thinks there was needs to spend less time studying things to get outraged about and more time studying history.

"Handicap" is another bit of folk etymology. The word took its turn on the euphemism treadmill, and was replaced in turn by "challenged" but its origins had nothing to do with crippling injuries. Any follower of horse racing is familiar with the concept of handicapping, which refers to assigning a horse to carry extra weight to make a race even. And that comes from an old gambling game where an amount of money was assessed to equalize the value of two items being bet. The game was called hand-in-cap, hence the term. As Snopes says, anyone who can't understand the difference between "hand-in-cap" and "cap-in-hand" should contemplate the difference between a housecat and a cathouse.

As for whether or not the State Department should become a bastion of political correctness based on folk etymology, email rumor, and just plain wrongness: One of the things a successful diplomat needs is, indeed, an understanding of words which are insulting in some way. For example, there is a very good reason why black holes are referred to as "frozen stars" by Russians. However, a successful diplomat also needs discretion, understanding, and a certain degree of fortitude. Banning a perfectly innocent word or phrase because of a complete lack of comprehension of what it actually means, or because you expect others to be ignorant, shows none of those qualities.

Take "hold the fort." The level of arrogance and self-centeredness that would lead a person to believe that the only forts that have ever existed or have ever been significant in the entire history of the human race are those which existed for a few hundred years in North America, and furthermore, only when used as a defense against one particular group, just staggers the imagination. Apparently Fort TIconderoga was never held against the British, Mexican troops did not lay siege to Fort Taylor (aka Fort Texas). and Fort Sumter was no part of the Civil War.

There are plenty of things one should not say in diplomacy. There is no need to invent new ones. And anyone who claims to be offended by something which does not mean what they think they mean is not making the group they claim to represent look powerful and important by demanding that their errors in understanding be made policy; they just make themselves look both stupid and belligerent, a combination of conditions one normally associates with some of the more hostile species of geckos.

I presume the reason the people at Fox News are hyping this story is as a way of saying "no conservative would do something that ignorant." Unfortunately, the enormous number of "facts" circulating by email and intended to stir up conservative outrage -- "facts" that could be refuted by a quick trip to any major search engine -- lead me to believe that is not actually the case.

Aside from making the people who fall for them look ridiculously credulous, stories like this just motivate hoaxers to invent ever new and ever more outrageous things for people to get upset about -- kind of a slow-motion trolling, in fact. If one bites on a troll's hook, announcing it should bring scorn, not admiration.
 
2012-09-01 01:30:01 AM  

Worldwalker: Take "hold the fort." The level of arrogance and self-centeredness that would lead a person to believe that the only forts that have ever existed or have ever been significant in the entire history of the human race are those which existed for a few hundred years in North America, and furthermore, only when used as a defense against one particular group, just staggers the imagination.


And yet, you can see people in this very thread who thought that, I don't know if it's arrogance, though. It could easily just be ignorance of history.
 
2012-09-01 11:27:31 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: robohobo: There will eventually be only 4, maybe 5 safe, usable words in the english language.

Here's hoping mongoloid is one of them.

Surprisingly, attractive and successful African American is still unacceptable in some circles.



Obama, with an African and American parent is certainly African American, however my parents are both from Cleveland, so I am a full North American American

I'll accept African American as a general term when we start also using:
European American
Asian American
Australian American
Antarctican American
South American American
North American American
 
2012-09-01 11:31:13 AM  

Charles Martel: [www.southernlandscapes.com image 500x375]

Beating around the bush -- can we still use that?


¿Why do you hate teh birds?
 
2012-09-01 11:37:50 AM  

Gunther: And yet, you can see people in this very thread who thought that, I don't know if it's arrogance, though. It could easily just be ignorance of history.


Whatever the cause, having an official in a position to know better treating folk etymology and just plain inaccurate beliefs as genuine gives them a credibility they do not deserve. I may think the word "bookkeeper" is offensive because I may believe, in my heart of hearts, that it refers to a person who will come to my house and seize all my books, but that doesn't make it mean that, nor should it give me any expectation that other people will treat my delusions as true. The whole idea of "if I feel some way, that makes it so" is political correctness at its worst (if you can even pick one aspect as "worst") and needs to be stopped by the people with the power to do so and mocked by the people without it.
 
2012-09-01 02:32:40 PM  

HaveBeerWillTravel: timujin: Robinson cited the cautionary tale of Nike rolling out a "Black and Tan" sneaker without realizing the phrase once referred to a group "that committed atrocities against Irish civilians." Nike later apologized.

And now refers to a drink made with a popular Irish beverage. Ferfuxake, people, grow a little skin. "Choose my word carefully" Mr. Robinson? Aight, I'm very carefully calling you a dumbass.

Actually, no, not so much, Not gonna comhment on the broader phenomenon being discussed here, but that particular example is wrong Ordering a black and tan in much of Ireland will get you glared at or just plain ignored.

/And under NO circumstances you EVER order a carbomb by that name.


I had no idea. Sadly, I have never been to Ireland. The only thing I have that could be called "experience" is that it is one of the drinks offered on the board at a local Irish pub, Molly Malones, a place that has been around for 40 years (so, not that long, really) The 70-year-old Irish bartender there makes a hell of a good one.

I regret my earlier statement, made in haste and ignorance. I will take care to avoid the reference going forward when in certain circles. Seriously, though, I thought it was like "porch monkey," that they'd "taken it back."
 
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