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(Daily Mail)   After 5-year old son with a penchant for wearing dresses and skirts is picked on at school, father dons women's clothing in solidarity. "Long skirts with elasticated waistbands suit me quite well anyway"   (dailymail.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Hero, Nils Pickert, little buddy, school ages, Pippa Middleton, waistband, skirts, fingernails, solidarity  
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17848 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Aug 2012 at 4:46 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-30 08:04:09 PM  

octopied: Some kids like to wear superhero costumes all the time too, doesn't mean they do it at school.

At that age,why not say "You can wear this at home, but not at school" If he still wants to wear a dress in several years when he's old enough to understand social backlash, then go with it.


You can be gay at home, but not at school....

Like that?
 
2012-08-30 08:07:28 PM  

craig328: ...ah well, I leave for a bit to see what the froth at the mouth club comes back with and I get "Johnny Cash is my parental inspiration" and a couple of folks who clearly don't have kids and, if we're all collectively lucky, won't.

Anyway, rebut all you like. The world isn't the way you WISH it was, it's the way it is. You can encourage your 5 year old (who still thinks you're God incarnate, infallible and the person he/she holds in the most ridiculously high esteem) to go butt heads with the rest of society because that's what you think is the "right" thing to do...and then you'll be the person blaming everyone else that your kid's head has attained the consistency of eggshells suspended in a jello slurry for his parental-encouraged efforts and doesn't understand why he/she has few friends and people regard them as weird.

To you as an adult, weird is okay...BUT THAT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE OLD ENOUGH TO MAKE THAT DECISION. To a kid, it's a life changer...and it's his/her life, not yours. If they want to be the outlier later on when they can decide that's what they want to be: cool. To set them on that path when they don't know well enough...well, as a parent, you pretty much suck.

Hey, you smoke, drink and do recreational drugs...why not your kid? Hell, let THEM decide, right? By all means, don't exercise any real parental decision making (because, hey, decisions are hard). Nah, just leave it up to the 5 year old. In fact, chances are, he may even be more mature than you. It's not a whole lot different when they're 5 and trying to learn how to function with their peers and get along. Surely that'll have no lasting repercussions for the rest of their entire life. Nah, it's society that'll surely bend and everyone will celebrate everyone's individuality whilst singing kumbayah in a drum circle.

I don't endorse any of that but as a parent I'm also aware that this is the way the world works, regardless of whether I want it to or not. Tossing the decision maki ...


You strike me as the type of parent who would try to "pray away the gay."
 
2012-08-30 08:12:02 PM  
Awesome! When my sin starts murdering people, I too will murder!

SOLIDARITY
 
2012-08-30 08:13:32 PM  
Holy fark there are a lot of arseholes out today. Sure this probably isn't going to make it better, but damn, some of you people are awful. You should sit the kid down and ask, "Why do you want to wear the dress?" Doesn't really matter what the answer is, because next you ask "And is that worth getting made fun of for?" If the answer is yes, then support the kid. Just make sure they know that people suck, and he will probably get a lot of teasing. Let him know that you support his decision, you just want to be sure he understands the consequences.
 
2012-08-30 08:14:27 PM  

craig328: Look, I'm literally the last guy who will tell someone else how to raise their kids.


For the last guy to tell someone how to raise their kids you sure seem to be telling a lot of people that they are wrong.
 
2012-08-30 08:16:58 PM  

UncleStumpy: Awesome! When my sin starts murdering people, I too will murder!

SOLIDARITY


Awesome! I'll compare something illegal to a child not waering the clothes I and society thinks he should and pretend that they're exactly the same in order to generate faux outrage and make a retarded declaration!

STUPIDITY
 
2012-08-30 08:17:49 PM  

Expolaris: jaylectricity: freedom

[celticwarriorkilts.com image 300x481]

There is a land where a mans balls may hang free and clear.


Sorry dude. You're wearing a dress. You might as well light up a Virginia Slim while you're at it.
 
GBB
2012-08-30 08:19:07 PM  
suit4mens.com
If this is OK

i.dailymail.co.uk
Then this is OK
 
2012-08-30 08:20:11 PM  

zenferret: Expolaris: jaylectricity: freedom

[celticwarriorkilts.com image 300x481]

There is a land where a mans balls may hang free and clear.

Sorry dude. You're wearing a dress. You might as well light up a Virginia Slim while you're at it.


Men in dresses slaughtered armies and conquered the known world several times.

/the men who crow the most about masculinity are often the biggest pussies
 
2012-08-30 08:21:20 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: UncleStumpy: Awesome! When my sin starts murdering people, I too will murder!

SOLIDARITY

Awesome! I'll compare something illegal to a child not waering the clothes I and society thinks he should and pretend that they're exactly the same in order to generate faux outrage and make a retarded declaration!

STUPIDITY


I think his Freudian slip is showing :)
 
2012-08-30 08:21:33 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: the men who crow the most about masculinity are often the biggest pussies


Why am I not surprised that I have you tagged as a brony?
 
2012-08-30 08:23:46 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: scottydoesntknow: Good for him, but that won't stop the teasing. Unfortunately, it'll probably make it worse.

that was my first thought too. My second thought was anyone who lets their 5 year old tell them how they are going to dress is an idiot.


If a five year old is willing to endure that much to wear his dress, it isn't simple childish whim.

I'd still try to teach my son how to bend to society without yielding completly though. Oak vs. willow comes to mind.
 
2012-08-30 08:28:12 PM  

Smackledorfer: I'd still try to teach my son how to bend to society without yielding completly though. Oak vs. willow comes to mind.


i.imgur.com

A decent compromise if you lose the pants.
 
2012-08-30 08:29:44 PM  

Brick-House: And no one thought to give counciling a try?


We don't know if any of the kids doing the bullying got counciling. Let's hope they did.
 
2012-08-30 08:30:01 PM  
i.imgur.com

Or for a night out on the town.
 
2012-08-30 08:32:07 PM  

Silly Jesus: octopied: Some kids like to wear superhero costumes all the time too, doesn't mean they do it at school.

At that age,why not say "You can wear this at home, but not at school" If he still wants to wear a dress in several years when he's old enough to understand social backlash, then go with it.

You can be gay at home, but not at school....

Like that?


A 5 year old doesn't really understand gay and all it entails. Doesn't even say he's one of those kids who is gender confused at an early age.
 
2012-08-30 08:32:11 PM  

Owangotang: It is slightly terrifying how negatively some here are reacting to this.


When it comes to gender stereotypes, FARK resides squarely in the middle of an early '60s sitcom.
 
2012-08-30 08:32:32 PM  

KidneyStone: [img1.fark.net image 54x11]

[img1.fark.net image 54x11]

[img1.fark.net image 54x11]

[img1.fark.net image 54x11]

[img1.fark.net image 54x11]

[img1.fark.net image 54x11]

[img1.fark.net image 54x11]

[img1.fark.net image 54x11]

[img1.fark.net image 54x11]

[img1.fark.net image 54x11]

[img1.fark.net image 54x11]


The last time I tried to post the same tag that many times, I got cut off at five.
 
2012-08-30 08:34:06 PM  
Fark, I am disappoint that it took this long...

i217.photobucket.com

"Some people like the Army, but I think it's a mess--
If it's so damn terrific, how come I wear a dress?"
 
2012-08-30 08:37:45 PM  
Look at how butthurt people get over the ways that other people choose to wear fabric.
 
2012-08-30 08:38:02 PM  

ArmyWarVet: [f0.bcbits.com image 350x350]


Well, since this happened in Germany....
 
2012-08-30 08:40:59 PM  

jmk4fark: We seem to have read totally diffenerent articles. It was a rather harmless thing about gender stereotypes and did not seem atention whoring at all to me.


Apparently we did read different articles. The one I read said the dad openly enjoyed people reactions in the street and was "proud" that he and his son were the topic of conversation of the entire town.
 
2012-08-30 08:42:09 PM  
Sweet tittie glitter Jesus! I'm not sure where it happened, but you all need to switch to decaf. To the people who say let their snowflake do whatever they want, that's how we got whackos like Mr. Dhamer, that whole no supervision, no consequences thing.

And to those who think controlling every aspect of their child's lives as they grow is a good idea, shielding them so that they have no idea what consequences are, that's how we end up with unwed, unemployed teen moms.

Both are a burden on society, though one adds people to the world, and the other takes them out (that was humour) and each follows an extreme that leads to a similar problem, children growing up without understanding that actions have consequences in the world we ARE IN. I mean, if your kid sticks a fork in a socket and comes crying to you because he got shocked, you don't blame the socket for hurting your child and then switch to being amish, do you? (It's not a perfect analogy, so sue me.)

At this age, you should be teaching your kid that doing A usually causes B. In a few years, once he/she's old enough to know why B is caused by A, should you begin to explain how B should be C.

Case in point, if a parent wants to teach their child that clothing choices shouldn't matter simply based on what bits you possess, the child needs to first understand that the world (and internet) is full of judgemental assholes, and until someone can make a REAL change, they are going to have to deal with criticism.

I now return you to you regularly scheduled snark.
 
2012-08-30 08:44:18 PM  

Picture of Dad and a Lass

images.sodahead.com

 
2012-08-30 08:45:44 PM  

spamdog: Keizer_Ghidorah: the men who crow the most about masculinity are often the biggest pussies

Why am I not surprised that I have you tagged as a brony?


Don't watch the show, don't see how what I said relates specifically to it.

ThrobblefootSpectre: jmk4fark: We seem to have read totally diffenerent articles. It was a rather harmless thing about gender stereotypes and did not seem atention whoring at all to me.

Apparently we did read different articles. The one I read said the dad openly enjoyed people reactions in the street and was "proud" that he and his son were the topic of conversation of the entire town.


And in your mind that = attention whoring. Of course, half of Fark seems to think that anyone who gets mentioned in the news for any reason is an attention whore, so who knows.

I'd be laughing at people who react with such horror and vitriol, too. It's some fabric sewn together for the purpose of covering the body, tell me why we should give a flying fig about how it looks or who wears it.
 
2012-08-30 08:46:07 PM  

chaosweaver: To the people who say let their snowflake do whatever they want, that's how we got whackos like Mr. Dhamer, that whole no supervision, no consequences thing.


Call me crazy, but there are probably a few levels in between letting a kid wear a dress and letting a kid kill and impale local stray animals.
 
2012-08-30 08:47:01 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Look at how butthurt people get over the ways that other people choose to wear fabric.


Fashionista thread.
This thread is now Faboo.
 
2012-08-30 08:47:09 PM  

ArmyWarVet: [f0.bcbits.com image 350x350]


Ok, we are done now.

/last one turn the lights off
//goodnight
///tip the wait staff...you know the drill
 
2012-08-30 08:48:54 PM  

chaosweaver: Sweet tittie glitter Jesus! I'm not sure where it happened, but you all need to switch to decaf. To the people who say let their snowflake do whatever they want, that's how we got whackos like Mr. Dhamer, that whole no supervision, no consequences thing.

And to those who think controlling every aspect of their child's lives as they grow is a good idea, shielding them so that they have no idea what consequences are, that's how we end up with unwed, unemployed teen moms.

Both are a burden on society, though one adds people to the world, and the other takes them out (that was humour) and each follows an extreme that leads to a similar problem, children growing up without understanding that actions have consequences in the world we ARE IN. I mean, if your kid sticks a fork in a socket and comes crying to you because he got shocked, you don't blame the socket for hurting your child and then switch to being amish, do you? (It's not a perfect analogy, so sue me.)

At this age, you should be teaching your kid that doing A usually causes B. In a few years, once he/she's old enough to know why B is caused by A, should you begin to explain how B should be C.

Case in point, if a parent wants to teach their child that clothing choices shouldn't matter simply based on what bits you possess, the child needs to first understand that the world (and internet) is full of judgemental assholes, and until someone can make a REAL change, they are going to have to deal with criticism.

I now return you to you regularly scheduled snark.


You heard it here first, folks. Letting your kids wear whatever they want will create more Dhamers.
 
2012-08-30 08:50:19 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: chaosweaver: To the people who say let their snowflake do whatever they want, that's how we got whackos like Mr. Dhamer, that whole no supervision, no consequences thing.

Call me crazy, but there are probably a few levels in between letting a kid wear a dress and letting a kid kill and impale local stray animals.


I wasn't speaking directly about this father for that statement, but the people in this thread who seem to be unable to put their foot down on anything other than their non-existant child's individuality.

/my non-existant child is very upset by this.
 
2012-08-30 08:50:57 PM  
With all the pain and suffering in the world, what difference does it make?
 
2012-08-30 08:51:06 PM  

Gunny Highway: timujin: "Hey, if you and your dad aren't man enough to wear a skirt..."

It isnt clever, it is annoying.


Just because we're holdin hands don't mean we're going to take long hot showers together.

/obligatory
 
2012-08-30 08:52:30 PM  
And it seems Keizer missed the point entirely.
 
2012-08-30 08:55:41 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: And in your mind that = attention whorin


Um, yeah, being proud of being the center of attention because you do something different is pretty much the definition of attention whoring. It's not wrong, or right. So go for it. But yeah, no doubt it's attention whoring.
 
2012-08-30 08:58:17 PM  

chaosweaver: Sweet tittie glitter Jesus! I'm not sure where it happened, but you all need to switch to decaf. To the people who say let their snowflake do whatever they want, that's how we got whackos like Mr. Dhamer, that whole no supervision, no consequences thing.

And to those who think controlling every aspect of their child's lives as they grow is a good idea, shielding them so that they have no idea what consequences are, that's how we end up with unwed, unemployed teen moms.

Both are a burden on society, though one adds people to the world, and the other takes them out (that was humour) and each follows an extreme that leads to a similar problem, children growing up without understanding that actions have consequences in the world we ARE IN. I mean, if your kid sticks a fork in a socket and comes crying to you because he got shocked, you don't blame the socket for hurting your child and then switch to being amish, do you? (It's not a perfect analogy, so sue me.)

At this age, you should be teaching your kid that doing A usually causes B. In a few years, once he/she's old enough to know why B is caused by A, should you begin to explain how B should be C.

Case in point, if a parent wants to teach their child that clothing choices shouldn't matter simply based on what bits you possess, the child needs to first understand that the world (and internet) is full of judgemental assholes, and until someone can make a REAL change, they are going to have to deal with criticism.

I now return you to you regularly scheduled snark.


You should RTFA and switch to decaf yourself. The point of the article was the dad teaching his son how to deal with criticism.
 
2012-08-30 08:58:51 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: 'd be laughing at people who react with such horror and vitriol, too.


As long as you agree that laughing at people we think are funny is okay, then we seem to be on the same side of this issue.
 
2012-08-30 09:00:29 PM  

AttawaYawattA: With all the pain and suffering in the world, what difference does it make?


To some people? All the difference.
 
2012-08-30 09:01:45 PM  
Remember that article a good few years back about the kid that dressed up as Daphne from Scooby Doo for halloween?
And the mother wrote a blog post acknowledging that he was gay, and to not judge him?

I wonder where that kid is now, and if he actually is gay or not.
 
2012-08-30 09:01:46 PM  
My daughter was still in her "Nudist" phase at age 5, getting the child wear anything was a challenge, there were days I would let her wear her Buzz Lightyear costume just so I could get some clothes on the child so I could go to the store. The article doesn't say it but it sounds like this is a single dad, being one of those I can relate to him giving in to his child's wishes. It is hard to be a single parent.

/On a side note never take your daughter to Grandma's house with her skirt on backwards, your mother will never let you live it down.
//The pocket should be on the front dammit.
 
2012-08-30 09:03:24 PM  

jmk4fark: We seem to have read totally diffenerent articles. It was a rather harmless thing about gender stereotypes and did not seem atention whoring at all to me.


Probably all in the interpretation. If you take the dude at his word, and assume he has his kid's best interest at heart, it's a warm story. To me, it sounded like the dude with a persecution/superiority complex, and he was assigning all of his gender issues to his kid, and then using the kid's proxy issues to suck up attention for himself, but admittedly I'm reading way more between the lines than the actual text. Again, I'd probably feel differently if the source were a third-person piece of fluff news/editorial, but knowing it's the dude writing a letter about himself and his son, to a feminist magazine, smells of preaching to the choir in search of easy praise. A man writing to feminist magazines is certainly no crime, or anything to be ashamed of, nor does it suggest some sort of inherent gender confusion, but to me it serves as another subtle example toward the 'chicken and egg' dynamic of this relationship.....it's very unlikely that the guy started reading and writing to feminist magazines in recent days, as a result of his kid wearing dresses. So, he's the kind of guy, who by his own admission in the article enjoys publicly confronting his neighbors, who is an ardent enough feminist that he writes in to feminist magazines, and enjoys wearing dresses and painting his nails. Absolutely none of that is wrong in any way, until you force it on your kid, and make him the public face of your own issues.

I'd also note that the kid is currently 5, and has been in dresses long enough to garner public comment in two communities, and the dad talks about the both of them dressing in skirts "back in earlier days". What if this was happening when the kid was 4? 3? Whose issues are we talking about at that point? And once again, just to be triply clear, if dude has gender questions/curiosity and/or wants to wear a dress, I've got no problem with it. Double ditto for the kid, if he's doing it on his own accord. If, however, the dude is encouraging this kid to have gender issues, or confusing his gender, whether actively or subconsciously, I think that's a shame. Kid could potentially go through years of confusion and shame trying to reconcile issues that aren't even his. But at least his dad has gone out of his way to make his gender/sexuality a highly public issue, both in his small, religious town, and now the world over, before he's even turned six years old. I'm sure that will help.
 
Biv
2012-08-30 09:03:51 PM  
He identifies with being a girl?

I identified with Transformers, that doesn't mean my parents should have let me go to school dressed like a robot.

He's five. He's not going to school to express himself, he's going to school to learn. A boy dressed as a girl is a distraction, not only to other students but to himself. The teasing and bullying will never stop. Ever. It's a natural part of growing up, especially as a male, to establish a pecking order. Don't make it worse by making yourself a target.

I told my dad I was getting teased at school. He told me to stop acting like a geek while at school. Do your dorky RPG stuff when you are at home. Stop dressing like a nerd.

I did. The teasing stopped. I made a whole lot more friends. Funny how that works.

I even had some of the jocks playing RPG's...just never at school.
 
2012-08-30 09:04:26 PM  

spamdog: Remember that article a good few years back about the kid that dressed up as Daphne from Scooby Doo for halloween?
And the mother wrote a blog post acknowledging that he was gay, and to not judge him?



My daughter likes to dress up as male characters for Halloween, does that mean I don't have to worry about teenage pregnancy?
 
2012-08-30 09:05:03 PM  
Umm... TMLPK, as I stated above, my rant was not about the article, it was regarding the derp from both sides in this thread.

And this is why I usually stick to humor in these threads, everyone is always so set in their ways, that they don't actually listen to what you say, but react to what they think you said.
 
2012-08-30 09:05:14 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: Keizer_Ghidorah: And in your mind that = attention whorin

Um, yeah, being proud of being the center of attention because you do something different is pretty much the definition of attention whoring. It's not wrong, or right. So go for it. But yeah, no doubt it's attention whoring.


I must have missed the part where he was proud of being the center of attention. The article I read sounded like he was proud of his son for handling a situation where other people's reactions made him the center of attention. And proud of being able to help him deal with that. Granted, this is the Daily Mail so it's just as likely as not to be completely fictional. Still, people are infusing this possibly bullsh:t story with a lot of their own weird gender hangups.
 
2012-08-30 09:05:56 PM  

buntz: My 12 year old daughter is into Iron Man and wears an Arc-Reactor shirt that lights up to school.
At times I think "I should tell her not to wear it" because 12 year old girls can be biatches and I'm scared she'll get picked on for not wearing "girly-er" clothes.
Then I think "fark them! Geek girls rule the world and this is who she is and what she loves!"
So good for her and shame on me for, even for a second, thinking otherwise!!


bless your heart. l love you.
 
2012-08-30 09:09:38 PM  
Seems weird to me, and I live in California.

At 5, my kid knows he likes Star Wars, probably because I watched some Star Wars shows with him. They are little sponges.

/If Dad wants to dress up in dresses, fine. He shouldn't blame his kid for that.
 
2012-08-30 09:11:20 PM  

Biv: He identifies with being a girl?

I identified with Transformers, that doesn't mean my parents should have let me go to school dressed like a robot.

He's five. He's not going to school to express himself, he's going to school to learn. A boy dressed as a girl is a distraction, not only to other students but to himself. The teasing and bullying will never stop. Ever. It's a natural part of growing up, especially as a male, to establish a pecking order. Don't make it worse by making yourself a target.

I told my dad I was getting teased at school. He told me to stop acting like a geek while at school. Do your dorky RPG stuff when you are at home. Stop dressing like a nerd.

I did. The teasing stopped. I made a whole lot more friends. Funny how that works.

I even had some of the jocks playing RPG's...just never at school.


So, in your mind, a boy wearing "girl" clothes is unquestionably playing dress-up just as much as a kid in a robot costume. But if he's wearing "boy" clothes he's ... What, exactly?
 
2012-08-30 09:12:11 PM  

Owangotang: Strobeguy: How did this get a Hero tag and why does my head hurt reading the freaking article?

You played football and now suffer from chronic traumatic encephalopathy, causing you to drool on your shirt as you try to sound out words like "dress"?


yep, thats it..thanks
 
2012-08-30 09:13:49 PM  
One day men wearing dresses, lace, and high-heels in regular everyday things will be commonplace and the same effect on humanity and civilization will happed (i.e. nothing at all).

Such as France in the 16 and 1700s? Don't you know that caused the world to blow up?

Apparently we did read different articles. The one I read said the dad openly enjoyed people reactions in the street and was "proud" that he and his son were the topic of conversation of the entire town.

Actually he was proud that he and his son got people identifying and talking about their assumptions. Quite an accomplishment as assumptions are generally invisible. When people react on the street it means they are 1) paying attention - something rare by itself, and 2) forced to think about what 'normal' means.
 
2012-08-30 09:17:24 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: Keizer_Ghidorah: 'd be laughing at people who react with such horror and vitriol, too.

As long as you agree that laughing at people we think are funny is okay, then we seem to be on the same side of this issue.


I laugh at stupid people, assholish people, and retarded people. Those people are ones who get hung up over their precious gender role ideals and screech about people who don't conform to them. So we might still be on opposite sides, depending on who you consider "right" or "wrong" about this.

/few people think women wearing men's clothes is a horrible thing these days
//will be a good day when we stop being idiots about men wearing women's clothes
 
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