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(Daily Mail)   After 5-year old son with a penchant for wearing dresses and skirts is picked on at school, father dons women's clothing in solidarity. "Long skirts with elasticated waistbands suit me quite well anyway"   (dailymail.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Hero, Nils Pickert, little buddy, school ages, Pippa Middleton, waistband, skirts, fingernails, solidarity  
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17851 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Aug 2012 at 4:46 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-30 06:45:40 PM  
Stop with the gender-thing already! This is a 5yr old! Crimony, people, the kid is not making a statement for the New Gay/Bi/Lesbian World Order. He's wearing a dress 'cause Mummy and Daddy made one available to him.
 
2012-08-30 06:45:59 PM  
He should carry a rifle.

wherearemykeys.typepad.com
 
2012-08-30 06:46:14 PM  
The amount of ignorant bigotry in this thread is staggering. Let the kid wear what he wants, at least he's not the one out on the playground telling other kids they look/sound/act/are stupid.
 
2012-08-30 06:46:42 PM  

Gunny Highway: There is no simple answer to this question but everyone is acting like that have it.

....farking internet.


Sadly, this sums up every comment, reaction and rebuttal ever written in the history of Fark, and possibly the internet.
 
2012-08-30 06:47:17 PM  

loveblondieo: Is this the grandfather?

[24.media.tumblr.com image 500x381]


GODDAMMIT!
 
2012-08-30 06:47:26 PM  
When it is over 100 degrees for 21 days straight, doesn't drop below 80 overnight, I look at women wearing lightweight cotton skirt and think that looks a lot more comfortable than my pants.

I've worn a lava-lava before, in places where a lot of other men were wearing one. Wish I had the guts to make it part of my everyday attire during the summer.

Keeping my pants in the wintertime thought.
 
2012-08-30 06:48:21 PM  

Foundling: The father in the linked story is doing the right thing because he's teaching the kid to be himself, not to be what the world around him expects. It's great because it's honest. Teaching a 5-year-old to keep up one appearance for the public, and to only be himself at home, is dishonest and it would either take him decades to unlearn or kill him. Great story.


All I hope is that the lesson does no end with "Be yourself." There is alot more to learn after you are comfortable with being yourself.
 
2012-08-30 06:49:22 PM  

Theaetetus: Kiwimann:
I've had to deal with more than my fair share of jerk ass kids. They're never some sweet boy who likes dresses or nail polish. They're YOUR kids. Kudos to the dad and fark the rest of you.

Examples:
Pumpernickel bread: When he is 5, perhaps the parent should choose attire that will minimize the frequency of ass kickings.
loaba: You wanna Glam it up in high school, son? Go right ahead and when you get your ass kicked will figure it out from there.

Between the kid in a dress and those suggesting violence towards him, it's not the kid that has a problem.


Very much this. Fark amazes me sometimes.
 
2012-08-30 06:50:04 PM  

loaba: Stop with the gender-thing already! This is a 5yr old! Crimony, people, the kid is not making a statement for the New Gay/Bi/Lesbian World Order. He's wearing a dress 'cause Mummy and Daddy made one available to him.


On the contrary, friend, we are saying that he's a five year old and gender is irrelevant and he can wear whatever he wants. You're the one saying that his gender is paramount and he shouldn't be allowed to wear clothes other children wear because of said gender.
In short, methinks you doth protest too much.
 
2012-08-30 06:50:20 PM  

ParagonComplex: Your child really should outgrow the whole "I like dressing like a girl!" nonsense by the time they start school.


That my only complaint about this story. The child did say to his dad that he no longer wanted to wear dresses. The father then went on to actively encourage him to continue wearing dresses. Horrible parenting from a repressed father.
 
2012-08-30 06:50:37 PM  
I didn't pick out my own clothes when I was a kid. I went to Catholic school from K-12, so my clothes everyday were my uniform and saddle shoes, but even on the weekends or over summer break.....my mom picked out my clothes. She did that until I was old enough to do my own laundry. She taught me to use the washing machine and dryer when I was 10 years old, so that's when I started picking out my own clothes to wear, especially at the store. I already knew what she wouldn't want me wearing (nothing short, nothing tight, nothing full of holes), so I didn't bother handing her anything I knew she wouldn't approve of. When I was 16 and got my first summer job, and thus my own money, I could wear whatever the hell I wanted.
 
2012-08-30 06:50:53 PM  

HeartlessLibertarian: pounddawg:

Our 5 year old picks out his own clothes.
/not an idiot

Yes you are an idiot, if you think we would believe that lie. If your 5 year old picked out his own clothes, he'd be going to school dressed as batman. And if you let your 5 year old pick his own clothes from the store (which you don't because you're lying) you'd be a terrible parent. Since you are a blatent liar you probally are a horrible influence on your child, and your child probably be as dumb as you and a plague on society as well. 5 Year olds are not old enough to pick out a wardrobe, they can't even dress themselves. So don't lie to us you pathetic liberal piece of garbage.


You are the idiot here.

Step 1. Show a kid a shirt with a GI JOE or Barbie.
Step 2. Ask which one they want.
Step 3. Buy shirt they choose.

The kid just picked thier own clothes.
 
2012-08-30 06:51:00 PM  

Gunny Highway: Canned Tamales: I'm no hero, no society-changing rebel, and I admit it...but tell me, what's it like to be just a straight-up coward?

You are being kind of a dick in this thread. Ease up and have some tact.


Yeah, I'm the one saying that people who don't bow down to bigoted elements of society on every little thing are people whose idea of fatherhood is "grunting and wiping off their dick". Oh, wait, no, that was troll-ass craig328, NOT ME.

So, yeah, go fark your sister some more.
 
2012-08-30 06:51:25 PM  

HeartlessLibertarian: pounddawg:

Our 5 year old picks out his own clothes.
/not an idiot

Yes you are an idiot, if you think we would believe that lie. If your 5 year old picked out his own clothes, he'd be going to school dressed as batman. And if you let your 5 year old pick his own clothes from the store (which you don't because you're lying) you'd be a terrible parent. Since you are a blatant liar you probably are a horrible influence on your child, and your child probably be as dumb as you and a plague on society as well. 5 Year olds are not old enough to pick out a wardrobe, they can't even dress themselves. So don't lie to us you pathetic liberal piece of garbage.


how many of you think 5 year olds, who can;t even put on clothes themselves, wouldn't go to school as Batman every day if they had their choice? Even if this little 5 year old is a homosexual who is too insecure to admit hes a gay and decides instead to think hes a transformer (because thats what transgenderism is, especially when you see all the people switch back from being transformer's to just plain gay), wait till hes like 13 before you have him alienated and raped by the bullies at school please, thats an awfully cruel thing to do to a 5 year old. And if you don't think every kid in school is making fun of him right now, you are also liars.

This is the parents sick will being pushed upon an innocent child. The dad should be in jail for this, and for probably molesting his child as well. I'm all for letting stupid gays pretend that they are transgendered when they are to insecure to admit their sexual disorder...but don't push it on a god dang child.
 
2012-08-30 06:51:55 PM  

ParagonComplex: Your child really should outgrow the whole "I like dressing like a girl!" nonsense by the time they start school. It's really a failure of parenting. The kid's entire life will be ruined, and it's all the parent's fault. The kid needs to learn about "inside behavior" and "outside behavior". Yeah, they'll eventually get the idea that it isn't socially acceptable and stop doing it all together. That's the best thing for them. Kids can be terribly cruel for the simplest of things. Just imagine it amplified when your boy dresses like a girl. Worse yet, the kid won't really have any idea why the kids are being mean since the parent failued them.


Society has failed them not the parents.
 
2012-08-30 06:52:22 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: Theaetetus: Kiwimann:
I've had to deal with more than my fair share of jerk ass kids. They're never some sweet boy who likes dresses or nail polish. They're YOUR kids. Kudos to the dad and fark the rest of you.

Examples:
Pumpernickel bread: When he is 5, perhaps the parent should choose attire that will minimize the frequency of ass kickings.
loaba: You wanna Glam it up in high school, son? Go right ahead and when you get your ass kicked will figure it out from there.

Between the kid in a dress and those suggesting violence towards him, it's not the kid that has a problem.

Very much this. Fark amazes me sometimes.


Y'know, there is a difference between predicting future events and advocating particular events in the future.
 
2012-08-30 06:52:41 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: Canned Tamales: But those of you (non-trolls) who feel the need to criticize and complain and talk shiat about what a "real dad' does, or who push your various "norms" and "standards" as somehow important...

Yeah, that's the major problem with freedom of expression - everyone has it, not just you.


You are perfectly free to express what a shiatstain you are. Your fear and farked-upness are not my problem, loser.
 
2012-08-30 06:53:37 PM  
Teach the boy to fight. There's nothing funnier than a boy in a dress, kicking ass.
 
2012-08-30 06:53:40 PM  

ParagonComplex: Your child really should outgrow the whole "I like dressing like a girl!" nonsense by the time they start school. It's really a failure of parenting. The kid's entire life will be ruined, and it's all the parent's fault. The kid needs to learn about "inside behavior" and "outside behavior". Yeah, they'll eventually get the idea that it isn't socially acceptable and stop doing it all together. That's the best thing for them. Kids can be terribly cruel for the simplest of things. Just imagine it amplified when your boy dresses like a girl. Worse yet, the kid won't really have any idea why the kids are being mean since the parent failued them.


2/10
 
2012-08-30 06:53:43 PM  

Canned Tamales: Gunny Highway: Canned Tamales: I'm no hero, no society-changing rebel, and I admit it...but tell me, what's it like to be just a straight-up coward?

You are being kind of a dick in this thread. Ease up and have some tact.

Yeah, I'm the one saying that people who don't bow down to bigoted elements of society on every little thing are people whose idea of fatherhood is "grunting and wiping off their dick". Oh, wait, no, that was troll-ass craig328, NOT ME.

So, yeah, go fark your sister some more.


This is the kind of response I was referencing. You lack tact.
 
2012-08-30 06:53:44 PM  

loaba: Stop with the gender-thing already! This is a 5yr old! Crimony, people, the kid is not making a statement for the New Gay/Bi/Lesbian World Order. He's wearing a dress 'cause Mummy and Daddy made one available to him.


He's wearing one simply because it's available to him, and because he likes it. That's the entire farking point. He's not trying to make a statement. He just likes the dress. Society is making the statement here, and it's an ugly one that his father is perfectly right in opposing.
 
2012-08-30 06:54:32 PM  

craig328: codergirl42: Your wrong, it should be the resposibility of the other childrens parents to teach thier kids not to be a dick. WTF. Let the kid express himself. It's not his fault a bunch of knuckledraggers don't understand him. Good for the dad for trying to except his kid and walk a mile in his shoes instead of forcing him to live a lie out of fear.


I was right with you there til you used the word SHOULD instead of, you know, actually acknowledging the world as it, in fact, functions.

But hey, don't let reality get in the way of your perfectly logical rebuttal. It's just the kid that'll pay for your parently indolence. Congrats!


Not the whole rest of the world is as crippled as you. You'll get used to it.
 
2012-08-30 06:54:39 PM  

codergirl42: HeartlessLibertarian: pounddawg:

Our 5 year old picks out his own clothes.
/not an idiot

Yes you are an idiot, if you think we would believe that lie. If your 5 year old picked out his own clothes, he'd be going to school dressed as batman. And if you let your 5 year old pick his own clothes from the store (which you don't because you're lying) you'd be a terrible parent. Since you are a blatent liar you probally are a horrible influence on your child, and your child probably be as dumb as you and a plague on society as well. 5 Year olds are not old enough to pick out a wardrobe, they can't even dress themselves. So don't lie to us you pathetic liberal piece of garbage.

You are the idiot here.

Step 1. Show a kid a shirt with a GI JOE or Barbie.
Step 2. Ask which one they want.
Step 3. Buy shirt they choose.

The kid just picked thier own clothes.


You just proved my point you wanna-be-programmer (girls can't code). The parents have to suggest the clothes to the child, which you just admitted.
 
2012-08-30 06:55:38 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: silverjets: If nothing else the kid won't be stressed out as a teenager struggling with how to "come out" to his dad.

It's not the 5-year old who's struggling with how to come out.


My thoughts too. Likewise, may both be happy in life and find much to love.
 
2012-08-30 06:56:25 PM  

shortymac: Kilts are sexy :)


That's why I wear one. If there are any pictures from the last MN Fark Party, there should be at least one of me in my kilt and vest.
 
2012-08-30 06:56:51 PM  

HeartlessLibertarian: HeartlessLibertarian: pounddawg:

Our 5 year old picks out his own clothes.
/not an idiot

Yes you are an idiot, if you think we would believe that lie. If your 5 year old picked out his own clothes, he'd be going to school dressed as batman. And if you let your 5 year old pick his own clothes from the store (which you don't because you're lying) you'd be a terrible parent. Since you are a blatant liar you probably are a horrible influence on your child, and your child probably be as dumb as you and a plague on society as well. 5 Year olds are not old enough to pick out a wardrobe, they can't even dress themselves. So don't lie to us you pathetic liberal piece of garbage.

how many of you think 5 year olds, who can;t even put on clothes themselves, wouldn't go to school as Batman every day if they had their choice? Even if this little 5 year old is a homosexual who is too insecure to admit hes a gay and decides instead to think hes a transformer (because thats what transgenderism is, especially when you see all the people switch back from being transformer's to just plain gay), wait till hes like 13 before you have him alienated and raped by the bullies at school please, thats an awfully cruel thing to do to a 5 year old. And if you don't think every kid in school is making fun of him right now, you are also liars.

This is the parents sick will being pushed upon an innocent child. The dad should be in jail for this, and for probably molesting his child as well. I'm all for letting stupid gays pretend that they are transgendered when they are to insecure to admit their sexual disorder...but don't push it on a god dang child.


10/10
 
2012-08-30 06:56:59 PM  

loaba: tinfoil-hat maggie: Theaetetus: Kiwimann:
I've had to deal with more than my fair share of jerk ass kids. They're never some sweet boy who likes dresses or nail polish. They're YOUR kids. Kudos to the dad and fark the rest of you.

Examples:
Pumpernickel bread: When he is 5, perhaps the parent should choose attire that will minimize the frequency of ass kickings.
loaba: You wanna Glam it up in high school, son? Go right ahead and when you get your ass kicked will figure it out from there.

Between the kid in a dress and those suggesting violence towards him, it's not the kid that has a problem.

Very much this. Fark amazes me sometimes.

Y'know, there is a difference between predicting future events and advocating particular events in the future.


Of course. I wasn't saying you were advocating violence... Merely saying it was inevitable, a natural result, a consequence of an orderly society, a blameless action on the part of the perpetrators who should be lauded as heroes for standing up for conformity, etc.
 
2012-08-30 06:57:32 PM  

ladyfortuna: The amount of ignorant bigotry in this thread is staggering. Let the kid wear what he wants, at least he's not the one out on the playground telling other kids they look/sound/act/are stupid.


Kids ARE stupid though. I used to be a stupid kid myself, so I know this. If the kids are acting like assholes, it's not because they had a revelation and decided to act like an asshole, it's because they're being taught in the home that it's okay to act like an asshole. If there are kids teasing and picking on and bullying this kid, they're being taught by their parents that it's okay to do this, otherwise they wouldn't.

There was a little boy down the block from where I lived who always used to yell at me when we'd be at the playground. I wouldn't be anywhere near him, and he'd just come over and start yelling at me. Want to know where he learned to do that? His dad yelled at his mother all the time. You could hear them five houses down. He learned that yelling at women was okay because his dad did it. Last I heard from a couple people I stay in touch with, he's been in and out of jail for domestic assault.
 
2012-08-30 06:58:46 PM  

HeartlessLibertarian: codergirl42: HeartlessLibertarian: pounddawg:

Our 5 year old picks out his own clothes.
/not an idiot

Yes you are an idiot, if you think we would believe that lie. If your 5 year old picked out his own clothes, he'd be going to school dressed as batman. And if you let your 5 year old pick his own clothes from the store (which you don't because you're lying) you'd be a terrible parent. Since you are a blatent liar you probally are a horrible influence on your child, and your child probably be as dumb as you and a plague on society as well. 5 Year olds are not old enough to pick out a wardrobe, they can't even dress themselves. So don't lie to us you pathetic liberal piece of garbage.

You are the idiot here.

Step 1. Show a kid a shirt with a GI JOE or Barbie.
Step 2. Ask which one they want.
Step 3. Buy shirt they choose.

The kid just picked thier own clothes.

You just proved my point you wanna-be-programmer (girls can't code). The parents have to suggest the clothes to the child, which you just admitted.


Well then since the stores are the ones who decide what items are on the shelf does that mean we also don't get a choice with what we buy since you know the stores make the suggestions?
 
2012-08-30 06:58:56 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: ParagonComplex: Your child really should outgrow the whole "I like dressing like a girl!" nonsense by the time they start school.

That my only complaint about this story. The child did say to his dad that he no longer wanted to wear dresses. The father then went on to actively encourage him to continue wearing dresses. Horrible parenting from a repressed father.


Huh? Only responding to this because your reading comprehension sucks.

From what I read in the article, the father and the son both lived in a relatively liberal city where they both occasionally wore dresses.

They then moved to a smaller, more traditional town and the son became embarassed to wear a dress and asked his father if he would wear a dress again (which he did).

Because it's not mentioned in the article, you could ask how the son first became interested in dresses (did his dad offer it to him w/ or w/o him asking? Was his dad wearing the dress first and that gave the son the idea? Was the son wanting to wear the dress in the liberal city as well and the dad did it for emotional support there as well?) But at the end of the day, I don't really care about the answers to those questions. The kid (and the dad) can wear whatever they want provided it's in line with local dress codes.
 
2012-08-30 06:59:07 PM  
Uh...the father is a cross-dressing attention whore dressing his son in women's clothing. Scary.
 
2012-08-30 06:59:31 PM  

Gunny Highway: There is no simple answer to this question but everyone is acting like that have it.

....farking internet.


Not really, that's just your perception. For example, all I did was wonder aloud why on earth people think this is a big deal...I was then informed that because i questioned the strict enforcement of arbitrary clothing rules, my idea of fatherhood was "grunting and wiping off my dick" by craig328, after which YOU told ME that I was being a dick and should tone it down.

Why the fear? Why is the importance distorted beyond all possible reality? That's all I asked in the first place. Apparently, asking a simple question is just too damn uppity for some folks.
 
2012-08-30 06:59:55 PM  

Canned Tamales: craig328: codergirl42: Your wrong, it should be the resposibility of the other childrens parents to teach thier kids not to be a dick. WTF. Let the kid express himself. It's not his fault a bunch of knuckledraggers don't understand him. Good for the dad for trying to except his kid and walk a mile in his shoes instead of forcing him to live a lie out of fear.


I was right with you there til you used the word SHOULD instead of, you know, actually acknowledging the world as it, in fact, functions.

But hey, don't let reality get in the way of your perfectly logical rebuttal. It's just the kid that'll pay for your parently indolence. Congrats!

Not the whole rest of the world is as crippled as you. You'll get used to it.


Okay sure, I'm crippled, poor me, I should just roll over and accept my fate.
 
2012-08-30 07:00:15 PM  

skantea: I hope for everyone's sake the kid is actually gay, otherwise he may not appreciate this much when he's in high school and college trying to get laid.


Dressing like a member of the opposite sex has little to nothing to do with being homosexual, but I wouldn't be surprised if the child were actually transgender. If that's the case, then the kid's need to wear feminine clothing is only going to get stronger over time. He (she?) won't "grow out of it" (quite the opposite) and trying to force him to only wear boy's clothes isn't going to do anybody any favors.

Depending on what's going on with the kid it might actually help to encourage him to grow his hair out and "go all the way." In this, half-measures may do more harm than good. The kid may be in for a rough time and the parents ought to consider getting him therapy. But I see the usual Fark homophobes and transphobes have already come in here and sprayed their musk all over the thread, so I'll just leave it at that for now.
 
2012-08-30 07:00:42 PM  
lockers:
It only took one shirt with glitter to realize that all the clothes run in the same machine would also have glitter.

Glitter is the devil, it only took me one roommate dressing up as a mermaid for Halloween to remember that for ever. The $%^& stuff is probably still in the carpet at that house.
 
2012-08-30 07:00:50 PM  

Coco LaFemme: ladyfortuna: The amount of ignorant bigotry in this thread is staggering. Let the kid wear what he wants, at least he's not the one out on the playground telling other kids they look/sound/act/are stupid.

Kids ARE stupid though. I used to be a stupid kid myself, so I know this. If the kids are acting like assholes, it's not because they had a revelation and decided to act like an asshole, it's because they're being taught in the home that it's okay to act like an asshole. If there are kids teasing and picking on and bullying this kid, they're being taught by their parents that it's okay to do this, otherwise they wouldn't.


I dont think it is so black and white.
 
2012-08-30 07:01:09 PM  
I had some awful corduroy pants when I was in five. It sucked trying to go down a slide in those things; you just kind of sat there and had to push yourself or lift and lower all the way down. It seems like it would suck a lot more if your skirt rode up on sunny day, though.

I think bringing back tunics, togas, and kilts would be awesome. I don't think this kid is in it for the comfort level and I bet he is emulating his dad's cross dressing behavior. Where is mom in all of this?
 
2012-08-30 07:01:24 PM  

Chunky_Charlie: lockers: The Stealth Hippopotamus: scottydoesntknow: Good for him, but that won't stop the teasing. Unfortunately, it'll probably make it worse.

that was my first thought too. My second thought was anyone who lets their 5 year old tell them how they are going to dress is an idiot.

I didn't mind my daughter picking out her clothes, but I did say no to things I didn't want her to wear. This gave her the ability to demonstrate independence, while at the same time saving me from having to guess what is fashionable for her age and gender. My only rules were they had to be acceptable to her school and no f*cking glitter. It only took one shirt with glitter to realize that all the clothes run in the same machine would also have glitter.

I also hate glitter. Except on boobies. Boobie glitter is awesome.


Somehow tittie glittie always ends up on my face.

/mind-bending
 
2012-08-30 07:01:45 PM  

Dull Cow Eyes: Uh...the father is a cross-dressing attention whore dressing his son in women's clothing. Scary.


Suppose, for sake of argument, that's exactly what's going on. What exactly is scary about it?

What's scary to me are some of the outfits that people put on young girls.
 
2012-08-30 07:02:38 PM  

Kiwimann: Dull Cow Eyes: Uh...the father is a cross-dressing attention whore dressing his son in women's clothing. Scary.

Suppose, for sake of argument, that's exactly what's going on. What exactly is scary about it?

What's scary to me are some of the outfits that people put on young girls.


That should say "that some people put on young girls". I has no edit button.
 
2012-08-30 07:02:40 PM  

Dull Cow Eyes: Uh...the father is a cross-dressing attention whore dressing his son in women's clothing. Scary.


That you think of a five year old's clothing as being "women's" is pretty scary too, no?
 
2012-08-30 07:02:59 PM  

Coco LaFemme: Kids are cruel, they're stupid, and they're often times, egged on by their own parents. It would serve the parents of this child well to make him aware of that. Tell him he can wear skirts and dresses at home, around his family, but when he's at school, he has to wear pants/shorts like the other boys.


I was a nanny for a boy who wore pink nail polish and shiny lip gloss. I sat him down and explained that kids were going to make fun of him and if he couldn't handle it then he can't wear it out of the house. Then we role played strategies that he could use to deal with the teasing. I was so proud the day he was teased and said "I don't care, I like it" and then put a huge gob of lip gloss on
 
2012-08-30 07:03:11 PM  

cptjeff: loaba: Stop with the gender-thing already! This is a 5yr old! Crimony, people, the kid is not making a statement for the New Gay/Bi/Lesbian World Order. He's wearing a dress 'cause Mummy and Daddy made one available to him.

He's wearing one simply because it's available to him, and because he likes it. That's the entire farking point. He's not trying to make a statement. He just likes the dress. Society is making the statement here, and it's an ugly one that his father is perfectly right in opposing.

What makes you think that it's an ugly statement to say boys and girls don't dress alike?
 
2012-08-30 07:03:25 PM  

AlgaeRancher: get the boy a kilt and call it a day


This. That way, if any of his schoolmates give him any shiat, he can paint his face blue, cry FREEDOM
and cleave the little bastards in twain w/ his claymore.

/ seriously, I do like the notion of the kilt though.
 
2012-08-30 07:05:17 PM  

Theaetetus: ZoeNekros: Theaetetus: ZoeNekros: Tell them that people have strange attitudes about gender norms; that other children will tease, that many will look at them funny, and some will be outright confrontational. Tell them that for now I am going to make the decisions about what they can wear to shield them from that... They may wear a dress when they're capable of responding maturely to people's teases and objections on their own.

And removing choice from someone to shield them from others sure is a mature way of responding...

Note, we are talking about removing choice from a child. We do this all the time, and should. Autonomy is not a binary thing. Responsible parents respond to their children growing up by granting them more and more decision making.

Sure. We don't let them eat candy for dinner or play in the street, because those things can physically harm them. But "shielding" them from getting teased, without any further justification? Over something that is this meaningless? No, removing choice in this situations is irresponsible, and puts the parent's emotional desires ahead of the child's, which is pretty immature.


But there is further justification. Most of the time, at that age, it's a silly attention grab. It shouldn't get them attention, but it does. Moreover, I'll repeat my bottom line: They may wear a dress when they're capable of responding maturely to people's teases and objections on their own. Children at that age don't. Everything is new and important, and they will respond by getting exceptionally sad and/or angry. They don't intelligently discuss what's going on, for they don't even quite understand it. They do not understand how, or why, people will respond to them wearing dresses.

The funny thing is, it doesn't necessarily even take much longer for them to be mature enough to make their own decision. While in the minority, I know a few 9 year-olds (at the time -- I was a third grade instructor) who do respond maturely. Children do talk about gender expectations, most just taking them to be 'correct', like inviolable gospel. A few will openly respond to such unquestioned assumptions/expectations by pointing out how silly it is to think that a boy shouldn't wear pink, or nail-polish, or whatever. These are just preferences, and they don't matter. I would let such a child wear a dress if they wanted. So, yes, I would even allow an elementary school child to wear a dress. But, again, that's after a few years of being exposed to other children, learning about how they respond, and why; and figuring out how to talk to those who do. A kindergardener, at 5, will not have that experiential discretion.
 
2012-08-30 07:06:15 PM  

andyfromfl: cptjeff: loaba: Stop with the gender-thing already! This is a 5yr old! Crimony, people, the kid is not making a statement for the New Gay/Bi/Lesbian World Order. He's wearing a dress 'cause Mummy and Daddy made one available to him.

He's wearing one simply because it's available to him, and because he likes it. That's the entire farking point. He's not trying to make a statement. He just likes the dress. Society is making the statement here, and it's an ugly one that his father is perfectly right in opposing.
What makes you think that it's an ugly statement to say boys and girls don't aren't allowed to dress alike?


FTFY. And that's why it is an ugly statement.
 
2012-08-30 07:06:44 PM  
And in a surprise twist, the kid grows up to be an anit-gay religious nut who constantly refers to his "My parents even let me wear dresses" story to defend against charges of homophobia.


/you know that's how it's gonna end...
 
2012-08-30 07:06:48 PM  

Canned Tamales: Gunny Highway: There is no simple answer to this question but everyone is acting like that have it.

....farking internet.

Not really, that's just your perception. For example, all I did was wonder aloud why on earth people think this is a big deal...I was then informed that because i questioned the strict enforcement of arbitrary clothing rules, my idea of fatherhood was "grunting and wiping off my dick" by craig328, after which YOU told ME that I was being a dick and should tone it down.

Why the fear? Why is the importance distorted beyond all possible reality? That's all I asked in the first place. Apparently, asking a simple question is just too damn uppity for some folks.


Most everyone else is talking about this and avoiding insults.
 
2012-08-30 07:07:24 PM  

Thisbymaster: Sigh, what a failure of a parent. Your not helping your making it worse. Do you fix a leaking sink by saying, it isn't the sink's fault but it should be the kitchen that needs to accept the water better.


I can't decide if you're just a really good troll or just extremely uptight.

Your analogy is wrong. If we were to accept your analogy, it would be akin to telling every GLBT person in the
world that who they are is WRONG and that they should not expect the world to tolerate them.

I say that as long as it doesn't hurt anybody else, let your freak flag fly, baby!
 
2012-08-30 07:07:59 PM  

Gunny Highway: Coco LaFemme: ladyfortuna: The amount of ignorant bigotry in this thread is staggering. Let the kid wear what he wants, at least he's not the one out on the playground telling other kids they look/sound/act/are stupid.

Kids ARE stupid though. I used to be a stupid kid myself, so I know this. If the kids are acting like assholes, it's not because they had a revelation and decided to act like an asshole, it's because they're being taught in the home that it's okay to act like an asshole. If there are kids teasing and picking on and bullying this kid, they're being taught by their parents that it's okay to do this, otherwise they wouldn't.

I dont think it is so black and white.


It's certainly not a muddied shade of gray. Although there's room for children to independently decide to make fun of another kid, it absolutely lies at the parents' feet to correct that kind of behaviour.

Not only that, but you have to do it early, because once your kids are older you're not going to have any visibility into the situations when that stuff is ocurring. It'll all be happening at school and well out of sight.

You can save the birds & the bees conversations for when they're older, but bullying and teasing conversations you can & should be having with them at preschool age. Makes for nice kids.
 
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