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(Daily Mail)   After 5-year old son with a penchant for wearing dresses and skirts is picked on at school, father dons women's clothing in solidarity. "Long skirts with elasticated waistbands suit me quite well anyway"   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 444
    More: Hero, Nils Pickert, little buddy, school ages, Pippa Middleton, waistband, skirts, fingernails, solidarity  
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17830 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Aug 2012 at 4:46 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-30 07:06:44 PM
And in a surprise twist, the kid grows up to be an anit-gay religious nut who constantly refers to his "My parents even let me wear dresses" story to defend against charges of homophobia.


/you know that's how it's gonna end...
 
2012-08-30 07:06:48 PM

Canned Tamales: Gunny Highway: There is no simple answer to this question but everyone is acting like that have it.

....farking internet.

Not really, that's just your perception. For example, all I did was wonder aloud why on earth people think this is a big deal...I was then informed that because i questioned the strict enforcement of arbitrary clothing rules, my idea of fatherhood was "grunting and wiping off my dick" by craig328, after which YOU told ME that I was being a dick and should tone it down.

Why the fear? Why is the importance distorted beyond all possible reality? That's all I asked in the first place. Apparently, asking a simple question is just too damn uppity for some folks.


Most everyone else is talking about this and avoiding insults.
 
2012-08-30 07:07:24 PM

Thisbymaster: Sigh, what a failure of a parent. Your not helping your making it worse. Do you fix a leaking sink by saying, it isn't the sink's fault but it should be the kitchen that needs to accept the water better.


I can't decide if you're just a really good troll or just extremely uptight.

Your analogy is wrong. If we were to accept your analogy, it would be akin to telling every GLBT person in the
world that who they are is WRONG and that they should not expect the world to tolerate them.

I say that as long as it doesn't hurt anybody else, let your freak flag fly, baby!
 
2012-08-30 07:07:59 PM

Gunny Highway: Coco LaFemme: ladyfortuna: The amount of ignorant bigotry in this thread is staggering. Let the kid wear what he wants, at least he's not the one out on the playground telling other kids they look/sound/act/are stupid.

Kids ARE stupid though. I used to be a stupid kid myself, so I know this. If the kids are acting like assholes, it's not because they had a revelation and decided to act like an asshole, it's because they're being taught in the home that it's okay to act like an asshole. If there are kids teasing and picking on and bullying this kid, they're being taught by their parents that it's okay to do this, otherwise they wouldn't.

I dont think it is so black and white.


It's certainly not a muddied shade of gray. Although there's room for children to independently decide to make fun of another kid, it absolutely lies at the parents' feet to correct that kind of behaviour.

Not only that, but you have to do it early, because once your kids are older you're not going to have any visibility into the situations when that stuff is ocurring. It'll all be happening at school and well out of sight.

You can save the birds & the bees conversations for when they're older, but bullying and teasing conversations you can & should be having with them at preschool age. Makes for nice kids.
 
2012-08-30 07:08:28 PM

someonelse: silverjets: Meh. If nothing else the kid won't be stressed out as a teenager struggling with how to "come out" to his dad.

Maybe he'll be a lesbian in a man's body.


I was trained by lesbians.

/limber tongues
 
2012-08-30 07:08:59 PM

craig328: peterquince: craig328: Part of being a dad is to impart a sense of self-esteem and independence to kids. But that's not the ONLY responsibility of dad. Sometimes dad needs to be the one that says "yeah son, I know you like wearing these things but see, chances are the other kids won't understand and they'll treat you kind of poorly for that. No, it's not fair but then again, life in general isn't. It's fine to have goals and aspirations and want to change the world but you also need to understand that there are a great many others who won't see it your way and who will have the equal freedom to pillory you for your actions".

But before you even get to that conversation, if you actually are the dad, you remind yourself that the kid is a mere 5 years old, just perhaps a couple of years removed from crapping in his own pants (when he used to wear them) and that he has zero life experience to inform decisions like this...so you say "no" and say "maybe later when you're older, you can make this decision for yourself but today you're five, I'm dad and I'm saying no so you don't end up getting beaten up at school". Cause, you know, dads look out for their kids.

Or sometimes Dad needs to be the one that says "yeah, son, I know you like wearing these things, and it's okay that you do, but see, chances are the other kids won't understand and they'll treat you kind of poorly for that. That reflects on them, not you. But it's going to hurt your feelings. Why don't we pack a pair of jeans and a t-shirt in your backpack in case you change your mind at lunch."

Or that.

Look, I'm literally the last guy who will tell someone else how to raise their kids. My philosophy of child rearing is to raise happy, well adjusted kids who enjoy friends and get along with most folks they meet. That describes both my kids so I'll guess that I managed to do something right. Had my son come to me at 5 and asked me if he could wear a dress to school I would have had a brief discussion with him ...


Well damn, now you had to go be all reasonable and shiat. Your "grunting and wiping your dick off" comment had me convinced that you were a worthless, self-righteous jerk.

Hell, I'm not even some kind of gender-issues activist...I just don't get why people are so emotional and paranoid about society and certain sex-related issues. I've known all kinds of unusual kids who turned out just fine. Wearing a dress to school? Who even gives a shiat?

Then again, I live in a laid-back California beach town. The rest of the country never ceases to amaze me with how paranoid, judgemental, immature and generally farked up it is.
 
2012-08-30 07:09:06 PM

Theaetetus: That you think of a five year old's clothing as being "women's" is pretty scary too, no?



Sorry, I was thinking in dog years.


/i should of said "female"
 
2012-08-30 07:10:14 PM

Tawnos: Good for the dad. Haters can shut up and EABOD. What's wrong with a guy wearing a dress? Oh no, somebody is bucking societal trends! Must humiliate them so they know their place!


Some people feel really, really threatened by people who defy gender norms. Of course they'll deny with their last breath that they feel threatened. They'll call it "stupid" what what they really mean is "scary."
 
2012-08-30 07:10:45 PM

Kiwimann: Gunny Highway: Coco LaFemme: ladyfortuna: The amount of ignorant bigotry in this thread is staggering. Let the kid wear what he wants, at least he's not the one out on the playground telling other kids they look/sound/act/are stupid.

Kids ARE stupid though. I used to be a stupid kid myself, so I know this. If the kids are acting like assholes, it's not because they had a revelation and decided to act like an asshole, it's because they're being taught in the home that it's okay to act like an asshole. If there are kids teasing and picking on and bullying this kid, they're being taught by their parents that it's okay to do this, otherwise they wouldn't.

I dont think it is so black and white.

It's certainly not a muddied shade of gray. Although there's room for children to independently decide to make fun of another kid, it absolutely lies at the parents' feet to correct that kind of behaviour.

Not only that, but you have to do it early, because once your kids are older you're not going to have any visibility into the situations when that stuff is ocurring. It'll all be happening at school and well out of sight.

You can save the birds & the bees conversations for when they're older, but bullying and teasing conversations you can & should be having with them at preschool age. Makes for nice kids.


That all makes makes sense.
 
2012-08-30 07:11:08 PM
Is this where dudes in skirts hang out?

img.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-30 07:11:47 PM

Kiwimann: What's scary to me are some of the outfits that people put on young girls.



Absolutely. Those pre-teen beauty pageants are awful.

/Little Miss Sunshine and Superfreak showed how retarded those things are
 
2012-08-30 07:12:14 PM

Canned Tamales: Hell, I'm not even some kind of gender-issues activist...I just don't get why people are so emotional and paranoid about society and certain sex-related issues. I've known all kinds of unusual kids who turned out just fine. Wearing a dress to school? Who even gives a shiat?


I think you have proven in this thread that you have the capacity to be incredibly judgmental and emotional.
 
2012-08-30 07:14:21 PM

Silly Jesus: Treefingers: Link

^A pretty good article about childhood gender fluidity. Ultimately you, as a parent have to figure out if it's worth it to shame your child out of wearing whatever they want to placate your rigid and socially-imposed notions of gender normativity. The trauma inflicted by said shaming is thousands fold the trauma the child endures from wearing a dress in public otherwise. As a parent, your choice is to either join the ranks of the judgmental populace or to be an ally in an otherwise hostile social landscape.

Food for thought. We're embarking on a new era of child rearing and gender/sexuality constructs. No one from either camp really knows what to do with it.
/Popcorn shares and such.

[blessthe40oz.com image 480x347]



Subby here. The line of reasoning in the above post (which is backed by an excellent article) was my thought process when choosing the Hero tag that so many people seem to have a problem with. Of course the kid is going to be bullied by kids whose parents have taught them that anyone outside of a strict gender construct is "strange." That's not the primary factor to consider though. The mental health of the boy who identifies as a girl will be much more negatively impacted if his parents start telling him that what he is doing is wrong. Boys can only like blue. Girls can only like pink.

This father appears to be looking out for the mental health of his child. I think that most child psychologists would agree with what he is doing. If the boy identifies as a girl, the parent forcing him into the "male gender box" in order to comply with societal norms is going to screw the kid up more than any bullying ever will. Besides, do you really think that this kid would be otherwise completely normal to his schoolmates if only it wasn't for the dress? It's pretty likely that his differences shine through in other ways and that he's picked on regardless.

So, yeah, Hero tag for the father who puts the psychological well-being of h ...


To be honest, I don't really think that 5-year-olds "identify" as jack shiat in any meaningful way that could deeply effect their emotional or mental health, except with their immediate family connections. You can talk a 5-year-old into (or out of) almost anything, and they won't even know much difference.

I just don't see why gender as it relates to arbitrary clothing choices is such a hang-up to start with.
 
2012-08-30 07:14:27 PM

Chunky_Charlie: The Stealth Hippopotamus: scottydoesntknow: Good for him, but that won't stop the teasing. Unfortunately, it'll probably make it worse.

that was my first thought too. My second thought was anyone who lets their 5 year old tell them how they are going to dress is an idiot.

This is a no-brainer.

It really shouldn't be that big of a deal. Let him wear whatever the fark he wants to wear. Life is about doing what makes you happy.

It seems idiotic to me that people are so petty that they would voice an opinion on what a child is or isn't wearing, or any person for that matter.


It wasn't an issue until they moved to an insular community. Let the boy dress as he pleases, he is learning about people. He doesn't goddamn therapy.

My favorite part of the story was when the staring woman ran into a light pole. This is what happens when you have no manners.
 
2012-08-30 07:14:57 PM

valar_morghulis: Is this where dudes in skirts hang out?

[img.photobucket.com image 640x480]


Please tell me you don't wear the wife beater on its own in public.
 
2012-08-30 07:20:24 PM
My 6 year old cousin used to like wearing my grandmothers high heels while vacuuming her house.. he came out last year. Coincidence?
 
2012-08-30 07:20:28 PM
My 6 year old son will be the first to put on a frilly tutu and show you his Swan Lake interpretation.

He also will be the first to punch you in the face if you say anything.

/I will be the second
 
2012-08-30 07:20:48 PM

Mog32Kupo: Probably been said, after the kilt pics I just hit end...

but I just wanna know from any Farker Parents out there..

When your child was five, did they dress themselves? if so...properly?
I mean yes, that's Kindergarten age, but Mom/Dad still have MAJOR veto rights.


I'm the dad of a 5 y/o boy..
I put out his clothes every morning. If he had to choose, we would never get out of the house because he hates getting dressed and he's slooooow about it. While he really doesn't care what I choose for him, he's never put on a dress (I tease him at the store about buying him one)
 
2012-08-30 07:23:20 PM

HeartlessLibertarian: Yes you are an idiot, if you think we would believe that lie. If your 5 year old picked out his own clothes, he'd be going to school dressed as batman. And if you let your 5 year old pick his own clothes from the store (which you don't because you're lying) you'd be a terrible parent. Since you are a blatent liar you probally are a horrible influence on your child, and your child probably be as dumb as you and a plague on society as well. 5 Year olds are not old enough to pick out a wardrobe, they can't even dress themselves. So don't lie to us you pathetic liberal piece of garbage.


There are a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing.

/ I am only saying this because I care.
 
2012-08-30 07:25:04 PM
Didn't read the article or all of the posts, how is this helping the kid, if he is going to this same school till high school he will be tormented, right or wrong, these are kids, unless the kid turns into a beefy linbacker in public school he will picked on relentlessly and the parents will make fun of the dad.. In fantasy land maybe not but in the real world,yes. Flame on me but it is the way, would of happened 100 years ago, will happen 100 years in future.
 
2012-08-30 07:25:32 PM

Theaetetus: Myria: I don't understand some of the hate in this thread, nor those who think the dad is crazy for allowing his son to do this.

Fark.com: You will never find a more wretched hive of misogyny and despair. We must be cautious.


I think you're right about a lot of things whenever gender/sex/sexism issues come up....but most of these people aren't really that bad. Of the ones that aren't just trolls, most of them seem to be just scared and clueless.


/scared and clueless is not a recipe for thoughtful tolerance.
 
2012-08-30 07:26:23 PM

valar_morghulis: Is this where dudes in skirts hang out?

[img.photobucket.com image 640x480]


You trying to be a dyke???
Shave your pits..
 
2012-08-30 07:26:25 PM
While I have the stems for it, I really look atrocious in a skirt.
 
2012-08-30 07:27:10 PM

Canned Tamales: To be honest, I don't really think that 5-year-olds "identify" as jack shiat in any meaningful way that could deeply effect their emotional or mental health,


Research indicates otherwise.

Here's an interesting read on the topic with a mix of science and anecdotes from parents.
 
2012-08-30 07:27:14 PM
You know who else was a German boy who wore dresses 
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-08-30 07:27:29 PM

Gunny Highway: Theaetetus: ZoeNekros: Theaetetus: ZoeNekros: Tell them that people have strange attitudes about gender norms; that other children will tease, that many will look at them funny, and some will be outright confrontational. Tell them that for now I am going to make the decisions about what they can wear to shield them from that... They may wear a dress when they're capable of responding maturely to people's teases and objections on their own.

And removing choice from someone to shield them from others sure is a mature way of responding...

Note, we are talking about removing choice from a child. We do this all the time, and should. Autonomy is not a binary thing. Responsible parents respond to their children growing up by granting them more and more decision making.

Sure. We don't let them eat candy for dinner or play in the street, because those things can physically harm them. But "shielding" them from getting teased, without any further justification? Over something that is this meaningless? No, removing choice in this situations is irresponsible, and puts the parent's emotional desires ahead of the child's, which is pretty immature.

There are lots of different methods of parenting that work. I dont think parents being over protective of their children is so terrible.


No? That's why so many kids go into the world today thinking nothing bad could or should happen to them, regardless of how much of a farktard or douchebag they may be. Kids get teased, it generally makes them stronger and more able to deal with assholes, instead of becoming those types of assholes
 
2012-08-30 07:27:37 PM

HeartlessLibertarian: pounddawg:

Our 5 year old picks out his own clothes.
/not an idiot

Yes you are an idiot, if you think we would believe that lie. If your 5 year old picked out his own clothes, he'd be going to school dressed as batman. And if you let your 5 year old pick his own clothes from the store (which you don't because you're lying) you'd be a terrible parent. Since you are a blatent liar you probally are a horrible influence on your child, and your child probably be as dumb as you and a plague on society as well. 5 Year olds are not old enough to pick out a wardrobe, they can't even dress themselves. So don't lie to us you pathetic liberal piece of garbage.


0/10
 
2012-08-30 07:29:36 PM
I'm not wearing a skirt, but if the boy wants to do that, it's fine with me. And if his dad wants to wear one to support his son's choice, I admire that.

/leave them the fark alone
 
2012-08-30 07:29:53 PM
This sets off flags for me. I don't care that the kid wears a dress, I don't care that the dad wears a dress. I do care that the dad seems to be using the kid's apparently fragile gender identity as a magnet for his own attention.

Note that despite the subject being presented as the kid, the father's name is all over the article, and the father's actions are the real subject, the kid is just used as the subject so that it won't sound like personal bragging. This wasn't an editorial or news piece, it's the father himself, writing in to a German feminist magazine, complaining of his own persecution (in several communities) and commending his own resolve. From the article, the father mentions several conversations with parents in multiple communities, but certainly the kid's not the one having those conversations. Then there's the phrase "We already had skirt and dress days back then during mild Kreuzbergian weather." which implies that dude was wearing dresses before his kid was, rather than the other way around, which, again, I have no other problem with, other than the suggestion that the dude is forcing gender issues on his kid that may be his own. All of the quotes of the 'little dude' pertaining to his liking of dresses, seem to have little to do with the actual wearing of dresses, and more to do with his father, whether it's wondering when daddy was going to wear his skirts again, the attention they garner from walking down the street together in dresses, how both their nails look good painted, or saying that other boys don't wear dresses only because their father's don't. It doesn't sound so much like the kid likes wearing dresses, as he likes wearing dresses with daddy, because daddy likes wearing dresses.....which is a good reason for the both of you to hang out in dresses, but a shiatty reason to force your 5 year-old kid to be the center of the town's public debate on gender.

Encouraging and supporting a kid with gender/sexuality curiosity is one thing, and a sign of a healthy and wise parent. Encouraging or assigning gender issues (for attention apparently) to your child is another thing entirely, and some willfully shiatty parenting. I'll give this dude enough slack not to convict him without knowing him or his situation personally, but at the very least, he's the kind of fellow who would write into a feminist magazine in order to publicly laud his own courage for encouraging his son to wear dresses in reaction to the supposed vocal protest of the father's peers in several communities. It comes off as both a plea for sympathy, and a pandering report of a magnificent triumph. If this were a third-person report I might feel a little differently.
 
2012-08-30 07:30:48 PM
It kinda sounds like dad just wants an excuse to wear a dress. His son came and asked him if he could stop wearing them and he encouraged him not to?
 
2012-08-30 07:31:01 PM
This thread is proof that some people have completely lost their minds. As though we needed thread to prove that.

A 5 year old? Making decisions? Doesn't matter how smart your 5 year old is because their world is still firmly rooted in fantasy. And that's OK, because, you know, they're FIVE. But you aduilts thinking it's OK for a five year old to make real decisions? Up the dosage because your doctor isn't prescribing enough.
 
2012-08-30 07:32:43 PM
Theaetetus SmartestFunniest 2012-08-30 06:42:57 PM


Kiwimann:
I've had to deal with more than my fair share of jerk ass kids. They're never some sweet boy who likes dresses or nail polish. They're YOUR kids. Kudos to the dad and fark the rest of you.

Examples:
Pumpernickel bread: When he is 5, perhaps the parent should choose attire that will minimize the frequency of ass kickings.
loaba: You wanna Glam it up in high school, son? Go right ahead and when you get your ass kicked will figure it out from there.

Between the kid in a dress and those suggesting violence towards him, it's not the kid that has a problem.


You're missing the point. The point is that if you don't want people to call you officer, you shouldnt dress like a cop
 
2012-08-30 07:32:57 PM
ok, i read the article. The kid is going to be a wimpering simp or a hell of a fighter, his dad might be working in mysterious ways,
 
2012-08-30 07:34:24 PM
I'll agree to being clueless on this but I think those of you that have been hammering away at the sexuality / transgender issues are forgetting the key part of the story. The kid is 5! He's not waffling about who/what he wants to fu(k. He probably doesn't even know what it is. I'm a straight man, and the father of 3 kids, but if you had asked me about kissing somebody, it wouldn't have registered one way or the other until the first day of 7th grade when Valerie Costello walked in with her boobs.
 
2012-08-30 07:35:03 PM

dopekitty74: No? That's why so many kids go into the world today thinking nothing bad could or should happen to them, regardless of how much of a farktard or douchebag they may be. Kids get teased, it generally makes them stronger and more able to deal with assholes, instead of becoming those types of assholes


This may be. I still can't blame a parent who protects their children. Nor do I think a parent standing by their child is necessarily a recipe for a weak adult.
 
2012-08-30 07:35:15 PM

shortymac: Kilts are sexy :)


sup ;)
 
2012-08-30 07:35:33 PM
Some kids like to wear superhero costumes all the time too, doesn't mean they do it at school.

At that age,why not say "You can wear this at home, but not at school" If he still wants to wear a dress in several years when he's old enough to understand social backlash, then go with it.
 
2012-08-30 07:35:41 PM

codergirl42: Canned Tamales: craig328: codergirl42: Your wrong, it should be the resposibility of the other childrens parents to teach thier kids not to be a dick. WTF. Let the kid express himself. It's not his fault a bunch of knuckledraggers don't understand him. Good for the dad for trying to except his kid and walk a mile in his shoes instead of forcing him to live a lie out of fear.


I was right with you there til you used the word SHOULD instead of, you know, actually acknowledging the world as it, in fact, functions.

But hey, don't let reality get in the way of your perfectly logical rebuttal. It's just the kid that'll pay for your parently indolence. Congrats!

Not the whole rest of the world is as crippled as you. You'll get used to it.

Okay sure, I'm crippled, poor me, I should just roll over and accept my fate.


I'm pretty sure I was responding to craig328 there.....apologies if it was my error.
 
2012-08-30 07:36:47 PM

Theaetetus: Sure. We don't let them eat candy for dinner or play in the street, because those things can physically harm them. But "shielding" them from getting teased, without any further justification? Over something that is this meaningless? No, removing choice in this situations is irresponsible, and puts the parent's emotional desires ahead of the child's, which is pretty immature.


Oh, and I'll add an analogy to my above post. This situation isn't so much like eating candy for dinner or playing in the street -- it's more like learning how to swim. One approach is to toss them in the deep end and let them figure it out. Another is to gently put them in shallow water where they can touch the bottom, let them get comfortable, and so on...

It's not important, or even helpful, to thrust a 5-year-old into social discourse about gender expectations. It exposes them to things they do not understand and cannot respond to. They should not be a centerpiece of the conversation -- an item to be pointed at and discussed.

The "shielding" is a very small part of my take on the situation. I'm shielding them from the trauma of being tossed into the deep end, not from the fact that people have strange (yet passionate) expectations about gender. I would openly talk to them about it; and when they understand it, they may wear a dress.

What this father is doing, as I see it, is in the appropriate area, but too hasty. I'm glad he's not reinforcing the gender expectations and shaming his child. But, it's not like that's the only other way to respond. I just think my approach is more nuanced and closer to being correct. I say kudos to him, but this would be better.
 
2012-08-30 07:38:17 PM

Anderson's Pooper: I'll agree to being clueless on this but I think those of you that have been hammering away at the sexuality / transgender issues are forgetting the key part of the story. The kid is 5! He's not waffling about who/what he wants to fu(k. He probably doesn't even know what it is. I'm a straight man, and the father of 3 kids, but if you had asked me about kissing somebody, it wouldn't have registered one way or the other until the first day of 7th grade when Valerie Costello walked in with her boobs.


I mentioned earlier that I wore cowboy boots and a cape to school one day. I would like to think adults werent trying to figure out my sexuality. I was a kid who was told to get dressed for school and come down with crazy clothes on. I dont remember if I was teased or not but that information would be somewhat useful for this discussion.
 
2012-08-30 07:38:27 PM

cptjeff: xynix: There was this guy in the late 1800s who wore dresses as a kid.. I think his name was Franklin or something. He turned out to be a total loser.

Also blue is the new pink.

Until the late victorian age, all little kids, regardless of gender, were dressed in little dresses. I suspect it was just easier with them growing quickly, and with high mortality rates for children. And with clothes having to be made entirely by hand, they were labor intensive and thus rather expensive. Same reason a male child would wear shorts once he grew out of the dresses- make 'em with enough to fabric in the back, and they can be used for a long time, just letting out the waist and seat as required while the length stays the same.


It wasn't so much a case of being practical with cloth as it was with different concepts of gender back then.

Used to be, a boy-child wasn't really considered "male" until he hit puberty. Before that age, he lived with his mother and sisters and was treated little differently than them. A five-year old boy wearing a dress would not be seen as odd, in fact, it'd be seen as perfectly normal.

If anything, it's our modern culture that has its sexual values screwed up by insisting that a pre-pubescent child should dress the same (and by implication, be treated the same) as an adult.
 
2012-08-30 07:40:30 PM
Good. I'm glad the kids are picking on him.

If my kid was wearing dresses, I'd want him to get picked on. Hearing from me that what he is doing isn't normal won't mean as much as when his peers razz him. If he can take his peers giving him shiat and he is still O.K. with it - he will be better off.
 
2012-08-30 07:41:44 PM
girlfriend 48 years old in a dress walks over to your kid and says hi = no problem
i walk over 53 year old male in a dress walks over to your kid and says hi = a bullet to the head
i would have no problem with this this defines normal. kid and dad need help
stop being an uber-helicopter for your kid. he knows something is wrong or he wouldn't need your support
 
2012-08-30 07:42:29 PM

Canned Tamales: codergirl42: Canned Tamales: craig328: codergirl42: Your wrong, it should be the resposibility of the other childrens parents to teach thier kids not to be a dick. WTF. Let the kid express himself. It's not his fault a bunch of knuckledraggers don't understand him. Good for the dad for trying to except his kid and walk a mile in his shoes instead of forcing him to live a lie out of fear.


I was right with you there til you used the word SHOULD instead of, you know, actually acknowledging the world as it, in fact, functions.

But hey, don't let reality get in the way of your perfectly logical rebuttal. It's just the kid that'll pay for your parently indolence. Congrats!

Not the whole rest of the world is as crippled as you. You'll get used to it.

Okay sure, I'm crippled, poor me, I should just roll over and accept my fate.

I'm pretty sure I was responding to craig328 there.....apologies if it was my error.


Thanks, I guess I was confused about who you were responding too.
 
2012-08-30 07:44:58 PM
i.dailymail.co.uk
Anyone else humming the old "Incredible Hulk" music in their head?
 
2012-08-30 07:46:51 PM

Gunny Highway: Canned Tamales: Hell, I'm not even some kind of gender-issues activist...I just don't get why people are so emotional and paranoid about society and certain sex-related issues. I've known all kinds of unusual kids who turned out just fine. Wearing a dress to school? Who even gives a shiat?

I think you have proven in this thread that you have the capacity to be incredibly judgmental and emotional.


Oh, whatever you say. I think you have proven your ability to complain about my "tone" while ignoring a lot of meanness and ugliness on the part of others. I have been insulted quite thoroughly for asking a simple question, and have seen numerous people advocating the strict enforcement of arbitrary rules, and talking about what a bad father this guy is, including implications of molestation and trying to turn his son gay.

But because I get a little unpleasant when people do this, I am the problem...

....whatever you say....but please, feel free to grow an opinion on a subject other than my "tact".
 
2012-08-30 07:47:36 PM
...ah well, I leave for a bit to see what the froth at the mouth club comes back with and I get "Johnny Cash is my parental inspiration" and a couple of folks who clearly don't have kids and, if we're all collectively lucky, won't.

Anyway, rebut all you like. The world isn't the way you WISH it was, it's the way it is. You can encourage your 5 year old (who still thinks you're God incarnate, infallible and the person he/she holds in the most ridiculously high esteem) to go butt heads with the rest of society because that's what you think is the "right" thing to do...and then you'll be the person blaming everyone else that your kid's head has attained the consistency of eggshells suspended in a jello slurry for his parental-encouraged efforts and doesn't understand why he/she has few friends and people regard them as weird.

To you as an adult, weird is okay...BUT THAT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE OLD ENOUGH TO MAKE THAT DECISION. To a kid, it's a life changer...and it's his/her life, not yours. If they want to be the outlier later on when they can decide that's what they want to be: cool. To set them on that path when they don't know well enough...well, as a parent, you pretty much suck.

Hey, you smoke, drink and do recreational drugs...why not your kid? Hell, let THEM decide, right? By all means, don't exercise any real parental decision making (because, hey, decisions are hard). Nah, just leave it up to the 5 year old. In fact, chances are, he may even be more mature than you. It's not a whole lot different when they're 5 and trying to learn how to function with their peers and get along. Surely that'll have no lasting repercussions for the rest of their entire life. Nah, it's society that'll surely bend and everyone will celebrate everyone's individuality whilst singing kumbayah in a drum circle.

I don't endorse any of that but as a parent I'm also aware that this is the way the world works, regardless of whether I want it to or not. Tossing the decision making responsibilities to your kid because you're too big a pussy to actually BE a parent and look out for them (because it may go against your politically correct social views) until they're old enough and informed enough to decide for themselves isn't exactly being a good parent.

And now I'm off again. Ya'll check with some more old 45s for further guidance.
 
2012-08-30 07:50:18 PM

thesloppy: This sets off flags for me. I don't care that the kid wears a dress, I don't care that the dad wears a dress. I do care that the dad seems to be using the kid's apparently fragile gender identity as a magnet for his own attention.

Note that despite the subject being presented as the kid, the father's name is all over the article, and the father's actions are the real subject, the kid is just used as the subject so that it won't sound like personal bragging. This wasn't an editorial or news piece, it's the father himself, writing in to a German feminist magazine, complaining of his own persecution (in several communities) and commending his own resolve. From the article, the father mentions several conversations with parents in multiple communities, but certainly the kid's not the one having those conversations. Then there's the phrase "We already had skirt and dress days back then during mild Kreuzbergian weather." which implies that dude was wearing dresses before his kid was, rather than the other way around, which, again, I have no other problem with, other than the suggestion that the dude is forcing gender issues on his kid that may be his own. All of the quotes of the 'little dude' pertaining to his liking of dresses, seem to have little to do with the actual wearing of dresses, and more to do with his father, whether it's wondering when daddy was going to wear his skirts again, the attention they garner from walking down the street together in dresses, how both their nails look good painted, or saying that other boys don't wear dresses only because their father's don't. It doesn't sound so much like the kid likes wearing dresses, as he likes wearing dresses with daddy, because daddy likes wearing dresses.....which is a good reason for the both of you to hang out in dresses, but a shiatty reason to force your 5 year-old kid to be the center of the town's public debate on gender.

Encouraging and supporting a kid with gender/sexuality curiosity is one thing, a ...


We seem to have read totally diffenerent articles. It was a rather harmless thing about gender stereotypes and did not seem atention whoring at all to me.
 
2012-08-30 07:52:07 PM

Canned Tamales: Gunny Highway: Canned Tamales: Hell, I'm not even some kind of gender-issues activist...I just don't get why people are so emotional and paranoid about society and certain sex-related issues. I've known all kinds of unusual kids who turned out just fine. Wearing a dress to school? Who even gives a shiat?

I think you have proven in this thread that you have the capacity to be incredibly judgmental and emotional.

Oh, whatever you say. I think you have proven your ability to complain about my "tone" while ignoring a lot of meanness and ugliness on the part of others. I have been insulted quite thoroughly for asking a simple question, and have seen numerous people advocating the strict enforcement of arbitrary rules, and talking about what a bad father this guy is, including implications of molestation and trying to turn his son gay.

But because I get a little unpleasant when people do this, I am the problem...

....whatever you say....but please, feel free to grow an opinion on a subject other than my "tact".


Cheers. See you further on down the road.
 
2012-08-30 07:53:57 PM

craig328:
Hey, you smoke, drink and do recreational drugs...why not your kid? Hell, let THEM decide, right? By all means, don't exercise any real parental decision making (because, hey, decisions are hard). Nah, just leave it up to the 5 year old. In fact, chances are, he may even be more mature than you. It's not a whole lot different when they're 5 and trying to learn how to function with their peers and get along. Surely that'll have no lasting repercussions for the rest of their entire life. Nah, it's society that'll surely bend and everyone will celebrate everyone's individuality whilst singing kumbayah in a drum circle.



Your false analogy is false. It's illegal for children to smoke, drink, and do recreational drugs. It is however not illegal for boys to wear dresses.
 
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