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(NPR)   Do vegetarians and vegans think they're better than you because they don't eat meat? Well, of course they do. But why? NPR is there   (npr.org) divider line 399
    More: Interesting, food choices, vegetarians, vegans, morally superior, ethical issues, Bruce Friedrich  
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12257 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Aug 2012 at 4:40 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-30 07:33:23 PM

Spiralmonkey: whidbey: Spiralmonkey: . I just wish the particularly obnoxious type of person who whines about what I'm eating would shut the fark up. It's none of their damn business.

It actually is, when the entirety of a nation doesn't eat healthily, and as a result the costs of treating a malnourished population continue to increase.

Eventually this society is going to have to address the issue, and yes, it's going to be in the form of taxing unhealthy foods. I know that makes a lot of people mad, but I could care fark all if it does.

No, it's actually no- one else's concern what I put on my plate. I fail to see how my choice of broccoli over beef is in any way a contributor to a malnourished society.


Spiralmonkey: whidbey: Spiralmonkey: . I just wish the particularly obnoxious type of person who whines about what I'm eating would shut the fark up. It's none of their damn business.

It actually is, when the entirety of a nation doesn't eat healthily, and as a result the costs of treating a malnourished population continue to increase.

Eventually this society is going to have to address the issue, and yes, it's going to be in the form of taxing unhealthy foods. I know that makes a lot of people mad, but I could care fark all if it does.

No, it's actually no- one else's concern what I put on my plate. I fail to see how my choice of broccoli over beef is in any way a contributor to a malnourished society.


Obviously.
 
2012-08-30 07:34:55 PM

MayoSlather: However it's status quo to mock vegetarians and vegans in our society, and any attempt of greater awareness is met with an angry rebuke by most of America that goes something like "But Bacon is tasty, I don't like guilt...and you're a pansy for caring"


So much this.
 
2012-08-30 07:38:05 PM

residentgeek: lewismarktwo: LOL lifestylers.

INORITE? Amazing how some people realize that their choice-making can be consistent with ideals they hold. Tools.


Pre-packaged personality.
 
2012-08-30 07:39:49 PM

JackieRabbit: I say if someone wants to be a vegetarian, they should at least consult a nutritionist and probably talk to a few Indians.


Nutritionist, yes; Indians, eh maybe, depends on where they are from. If you want to eat a plate of (utterly delicious) ghee-laced starches, sure. A lot of my veg in-laws are over-weight or have high blood pressure. A typical Gujarati meal is bread, rice, legumes, and a vegetable. And they LOVE their sweets and fried snacks.
 
2012-08-30 07:42:14 PM

El Dudereno: whidbey: ZeroCorpse: You eat a billion animals in your meal. We eat a billion and one.

Now, aren't you just soooo morally superior?

Pretty sure those billion microscopic animals aren't a major contributor to heart disease, atherosclerosis and other degenerative functions.

Neither is red meat or animal fat.


Apparently not. Heart disease is a liberal myth like climate change.
 
2012-08-30 07:42:47 PM
All else being equal, a vegan probably is a better person than a non-vegan. It shouldn't be controversial to acknowledge that.
 
2012-08-30 07:43:50 PM

Biological Ali: All else being equal, a vegan probably is a better person than a non-vegan. It shouldn't be controversial to acknowledge that.


Know how I can tell you don't live in the US?

*clicks profile*

Oh. You're a lot closer than last time....
 
2012-08-30 07:44:09 PM

Biological Ali: All else being equal, a vegan probably is a better person than a non-vegan. It shouldn't be controversial to acknowledge that.


Nice. 9/10 for brevity.
 
2012-08-30 07:45:29 PM

WhippingBoy: Biological Ali: All else being equal, a vegan probably is a better person than a non-vegan. It shouldn't be controversial to acknowledge that.

Nice. 9/10 for brevity.


So reasoned statements are actually highly clever trolls now.

Well mah doggie.
 
2012-08-30 07:45:31 PM

Biological Ali: All else being equal, a vegan probably is a better person than a non-vegan. It shouldn't be controversial to acknowledge that.


Maybe because it's horseshiat?
 
2012-08-30 07:47:55 PM
because hitler, that's why.
 
2012-08-30 07:48:52 PM

whidbey: WhippingBoy: Biological Ali: All else being equal, a vegan probably is a better person than a non-vegan. It shouldn't be controversial to acknowledge that.

Nice. 9/10 for brevity.

So reasoned statements are actually highly clever trolls now.

Well mah doggie.


Really? In what universe is that a "reasoned statement"?
 
2012-08-30 07:51:27 PM

WhippingBoy: whidbey: WhippingBoy: Biological Ali: All else being equal, a vegan probably is a better person than a non-vegan. It shouldn't be controversial to acknowledge that.

Nice. 9/10 for brevity.

So reasoned statements are actually highly clever trolls now.

Well mah doggie.

Really? In what universe is that a "reasoned statement"?


It's simple logic.

Ever heard the expression "sound body sound mind?" It's not just a cute saying.
 
2012-08-30 07:53:20 PM

intelligent comment below: Most of the world barely eats meat. Including huge populations in the 2 biggest countries, China and India, who don't eat as part of their religious beliefs.


China doesn't eat meat? That's news... to the Chinese.

static4.businessinsider.com
latimesblogs.latimes.comwww.mir.com.my
graphics8.nytimes.com
photo.lacina.net
 
2012-08-30 07:54:53 PM
Vegetarian vs. Omnivore:

i49.tinypic.com

/Blatantly ripped off a thread from 4Chan
 
2012-08-30 07:55:03 PM
I tried being vegan for a week for fun. It was awesome. I lost weight and felt great. After a few weeks I tried being vegan again for another week. It was great, once again.

I'm convinced it's a great way to live.

I'm going to throw a couple of pepperoni pizza pops in the microwave now.
 
2012-08-30 07:55:22 PM

whidbey: WhippingBoy: whidbey: WhippingBoy: Biological Ali: All else being equal, a vegan probably is a better person than a non-vegan. It shouldn't be controversial to acknowledge that.

Nice. 9/10 for brevity.

So reasoned statements are actually highly clever trolls now.

Well mah doggie.

Really? In what universe is that a "reasoned statement"?

It's simple logic.

Ever heard the expression "sound body sound mind?" It's not just a cute saying.


My apologies. I've obviously been brainwashed by every credible nutritionist in existence. Of course an (unqualified) vegan diet is healthier than an (unqualified) omnivorous diet. Please forgive me, your majesty.
 
2012-08-30 07:55:25 PM

Biological Ali: All else being equal, a vegan probably is a better person than a non-vegan. It shouldn't be controversial to acknowledge that.


How about, no. Radical animal rights groups (who tend to be vegan) have destroyed decades of cancer research. One of the leaders of PETA, herself a diabetic, wants to deprive other people, but not herself, animal derived drugs needed to live. The vegan crowd would rather see half the world wiped out by a pendemic than allow the use of a drug that was developed from animals, or through animal testing.

F*ck them.
 
2012-08-30 07:57:10 PM
Personally, I think that all traits that I posses are the makings of a better person. Also, whilst I have been called an asshole quite often, it was from ethically inferior people. So that is like only 0.1% of an legitimate opinion.
 
2012-08-30 07:57:35 PM
I don't even need to read this article. We all know the answer is "Yes", ESPECIALLY for vegans. I have never met a vegan that isn't a high-and-mighty douche bag.
 
2012-08-30 07:58:14 PM

Gawdzila: intelligent comment below: Most of the world barely eats meat. Including huge populations in the 2 biggest countries, China and India, who don't eat as part of their religious beliefs.

China doesn't eat meat? That's news... to the Chinese.

[static4.businessinsider.com image 400x300]
[latimesblogs.latimes.com image 640x427][www.mir.com.my image 730x529]
[graphics8.nytimes.com image 600x355]
[photo.lacina.net image 656x439]


I have a feeling that guy kid hasn't made it all the way around the block, yet.
 
2012-08-30 07:58:24 PM

whidbey: Spiralmonkey: whidbey: Spiralmonkey: . I just wish the particularly obnoxious type of person who whines about what I'm eating would shut the fark up. It's none of their damn business.

It actually is, when the entirety of a nation doesn't eat healthily, and as a result the costs of treating a malnourished population continue to increase.

Eventually this society is going to have to address the issue, and yes, it's going to be in the form of taxing unhealthy foods. I know that makes a lot of people mad, but I could care fark all if it does.

No, it's actually no- one else's concern what I put on my plate. I fail to see how my choice of broccoli over beef is in any way a contributor to a malnourished society.

Spiralmonkey: whidbey: Spiralmonkey: . I just wish the particularly obnoxious type of person who whines about what I'm eating would shut the fark up. It's none of their damn business.

It actually is, when the entirety of a nation doesn't eat healthily, and as a result the costs of treating a malnourished population continue to increase.

Eventually this society is going to have to address the issue, and yes, it's going to be in the form of taxing unhealthy foods. I know that makes a lot of people mad, but I could care fark all if it does.

No, it's actually no- one else's concern what I put on my plate. I fail to see how my choice of broccoli over beef is in any way a contributor to a malnourished society.

Obviously.


Please explain.
 
2012-08-30 07:59:06 PM

boomm: I'm trying to be a Pesco-lacto-ovo-carne-LCA-vegetarian

for the uninitiated:
pesco refers to fish Joe Pesci
lacto refers to breast milk
ovo refers to eggs ovaries
carne refers to good-old animal meat carney freaks
LCA refers to Large Charismatic Animals (such as Pandas, Tigers and Whales) Christian Apostles
vegetarian refers to plants (yeah, I eat some of that stuff too) vegetative state


amirite?
 
2012-08-30 07:59:34 PM

WhippingBoy: Ever heard the expression "sound body sound mind?" It's not just a cute saying.

My apologies. I've obviously been brainwashed by every credible nutritionist in existence. Of course an (unqualified) vegan diet is healthier than an (unqualified) omnivorous diet. Please forgive me, your majesty.


So you're just going to buy the line that being vegetarian is unhealthy?
 
2012-08-30 08:01:30 PM

Spiralmonkey: whidbey: Spiralmonkey: whidbey: Spiralmonkey: . I just wish the particularly obnoxious type of person who whines about what I'm eating would shut the fark up. It's none of their damn business.

It actually is, when the entirety of a nation doesn't eat healthily, and as a result the costs of treating a malnourished population continue to increase.

Eventually this society is going to have to address the issue, and yes, it's going to be in the form of taxing unhealthy foods. I know that makes a lot of people mad, but I could care fark all if it does.

No, it's actually no- one else's concern what I put on my plate. I fail to see how my choice of broccoli over beef is in any way a contributor to a malnourished society.

Spiralmonkey: whidbey: Spiralmonkey: . I just wish the particularly obnoxious type of person who whines about what I'm eating would shut the fark up. It's none of their damn business.

It actually is, when the entirety of a nation doesn't eat healthily, and as a result the costs of treating a malnourished population continue to increase.

Eventually this society is going to have to address the issue, and yes, it's going to be in the form of taxing unhealthy foods. I know that makes a lot of people mad, but I could care fark all if it does.

No, it's actually no- one else's concern what I put on my plate. I fail to see how my choice of broccoli over beef is in any way a contributor to a malnourished society.

Obviously.

Please explain.


Well, I mean it's nice that you choose broccoli over meat, I admire that, but I have a problem with the statement that it's "no- one else's concern what I put on my plate."

Ideally, yes, I would agree. Realistically? Seeing as how this society as a whole is overweight and eating unhealthily?

No, it's going to become pretty much all our problem soon enough here.
 
2012-08-30 08:01:42 PM
I can see why people might feel bad about eating cute animals (ignoring the non-cute animals that die so that we can live), though abstaining dosn't really reduce animal death any. (Suffering, perhaps a little. Death? None.)

Will anyone convince me that the delicious sardines I had with dinner were sentient at one point? Probably not.

Becaue of these two points, I find the vegan moral argument unconvincing. I refuse to use an emotional standard for deciding whether food is okay or not if I wouldn't use that standard elsewhere, so as long as I do not think eating some meat (mainly seafood, which is my favorite anyway) is a cause of suffering, I can't consider it immoral.


The health argument is pure silliness, especially coming from people who consume really unhealthy stuff like caffeine, alcohol, and junk food. If I abstain from that stuff, does it make me a better person? No, it doesn't, even if it makes me heathier, and, except for caffeine, it probably doesn't, since small or moderate amounts of less healthy food do not make a diet unhealthy. (Caffeine seems to give me headaches, so I avoid it for that reason.)
 
2012-08-30 08:02:31 PM

Spiralmonkey: whidbey: Spiralmonkey: whidbey: Spiralmonkey: . I just wish the particularly obnoxious type of person who whines about what I'm eating would shut the fark up. It's none of their damn business.

It actually is, when the entirety of a nation doesn't eat healthily, and as a result the costs of treating a malnourished population continue to increase.

Eventually this society is going to have to address the issue, and yes, it's going to be in the form of taxing unhealthy foods. I know that makes a lot of people mad, but I could care fark all if it does.

No, it's actually no- one else's concern what I put on my plate. I fail to see how my choice of broccoli over beef is in any way a contributor to a malnourished society.

Spiralmonkey: whidbey: Spiralmonkey: . I just wish the particularly obnoxious type of person who whines about what I'm eating would shut the fark up. It's none of their damn business.

It actually is, when the entirety of a nation doesn't eat healthily, and as a result the costs of treating a malnourished population continue to increase.

Eventually this society is going to have to address the issue, and yes, it's going to be in the form of taxing unhealthy foods. I know that makes a lot of people mad, but I could care fark all if it does.

No, it's actually no- one else's concern what I put on my plate. I fail to see how my choice of broccoli over beef is in any way a contributor to a malnourished society.

Obviously.

Please explain.


I see no other way to prove whether Laissez-faire veganism or militant veganism is morally superior than to have a duel to the death.
 
2012-08-30 08:02:56 PM
Venison FTW!

Free range, had a nice life, and humanely harvested.

Also now not munching on your shrubbery, or killing you on the highway.
 
2012-08-30 08:03:05 PM

OgreMagi: Biological Ali: All else being equal, a vegan probably is a better person than a non-vegan. It shouldn't be controversial to acknowledge that.

How about, no. Radical animal rights groups (who tend to be vegan) have destroyed decades of cancer research. One of the leaders of PETA, herself a diabetic, wants to deprive other people, but not herself, animal derived drugs needed to live. The vegan crowd would rather see half the world wiped out by a pendemic than allow the use of a drug that was developed from animals, or through animal testing.

F*ck them.


Yes, because every vegan is some extremist who lets animals out of their cages and into the wild.

Disingenuous, much?
 
2012-08-30 08:05:29 PM

whidbey: WhippingBoy: Ever heard the expression "sound body sound mind?" It's not just a cute saying.

My apologies. I've obviously been brainwashed by every credible nutritionist in existence. Of course an (unqualified) vegan diet is healthier than an (unqualified) omnivorous diet. Please forgive me, your majesty.

So you're just going to buy the line that being vegetarian is unhealthy?


I don't think that being vegetarian is inherently unhealthy. I don't think that being omnivorous is inherently unhealthy.
 
2012-08-30 08:06:32 PM

whidbey: Yes, because every vegan is some extremist who lets animals out of their cages and into the wild.

Disingenuous, much?


No, they just want to treat food they dislike like cigarettes and tax the piss out of it. They're a bunch of authoritarian douchebags.
 
2012-08-30 08:06:36 PM

Biological Ali: All else being equal, a vegan probably is a better person than a non-vegan.


Mmmm... no.
 
2012-08-30 08:06:49 PM
Hrrrrrm, I never did. I just did my own thing and cared nothing about what other people ate.

In fact, I often encouraged others to eat very unhealthy things like chicken livers in cream gravy. It filled me with a secret horrible delight as I imagined their arteries growing soupy and thick with cholesterol.
 
2012-08-30 08:07:29 PM

Rustblade: I don't even need to read this article. We all know the answer is "Yes", ESPECIALLY for vegans. I have never met a vegan that isn't a high-and-mighty douche bag.


I have a good friend that went vegan to lose weight. One time I gave him an Altoid mint and then told him it had cow knuckles in it. He got really mad and then stopped and his expression went blank as he thought about it. He's not a vegan anymore. He got fat again.
 
2012-08-30 08:08:28 PM

whidbey: OgreMagi: Biological Ali: All else being equal, a vegan probably is a better person than a non-vegan. It shouldn't be controversial to acknowledge that.

How about, no. Radical animal rights groups (who tend to be vegan) have destroyed decades of cancer research. One of the leaders of PETA, herself a diabetic, wants to deprive other people, but not herself, animal derived drugs needed to live. The vegan crowd would rather see half the world wiped out by a pendemic than allow the use of a drug that was developed from animals, or through animal testing.

F*ck them.

Yes, because every vegan is some extremist who lets animals out of their cages and into the wild.

Disingenuous, much?


I'm not the one who started with the generalities.
 
2012-08-30 08:09:58 PM

WhippingBoy: whidbey: WhippingBoy: Ever heard the expression "sound body sound mind?" It's not just a cute saying.

My apologies. I've obviously been brainwashed by every credible nutritionist in existence. Of course an (unqualified) vegan diet is healthier than an (unqualified) omnivorous diet. Please forgive me, your majesty.

So you're just going to buy the line that being vegetarian is unhealthy?

I don't think that being vegetarian is inherently unhealthy. I don't think that being omnivorous is inherently unhealthy.


But obviously, with vegetarianism, you eat a lot less cholesterol and other crap you take on from eating animal products. And since bacon does taste so damn good, we tend to overdo it.

They really do eat healthier if you want to break it down. Bonus: they very likely eat a lot less.

Note I said "they." I'm about as carnivorous as they get, I love meat, but at the same time, it's pretty obvious that vegetarians are right, no matter if they come off as self-righteous or not.
 
2012-08-30 08:10:35 PM

OgreMagi: Biological Ali: All else being equal, a vegan probably is a better person than a non-vegan. It shouldn't be controversial to acknowledge that.

How about, no. Radical animal rights groups (who tend to be vegan) have destroyed decades of cancer research. One of the leaders of PETA, herself a diabetic, wants to deprive other people, but not herself, animal derived drugs needed to live. The vegan crowd would rather see half the world wiped out by a pendemic than allow the use of a drug that was developed from animals, or through animal testing.

F*ck them.


Hence my use of the term "all else being equal". Obviously if you're actively for them, the worst examples of people who happen to be vegans (due to hypocrisy, vandalism, whatever) will be pretty bad. But all else being equal - say, for instance, you have two people who are identical in every way except that one is a vegan and the other is not - it's pretty hard to not acknowledge the former as a better person. You'd have to have a fairly warped ethical framework (in which the lives and suffering of animals count for literally nothing) in order to avoid reaching that conclusion.
 
2012-08-30 08:11:01 PM

intelligent comment below: No, not at all. Most of the world barely eats meat. Including huge populations in the 2 biggest countries, China and India, who don't eat as part of their religious beliefs.


Is the China in your mind drawn upon your extensive research watching Kung Fu Panda, or are you just a natural borning farking idiot? China eats everything.

Also, there is a name for the Chinese that barely eat meat, that name is "impoverished". These aren't ethical non meat eaters, they would be eating a suckling pig's arsehole with a side of unicorn testicals if they could actually afford it.
 
2012-08-30 08:11:39 PM

JackieRabbit: They can think they're better than me. I don't care. Because the only really healthy vegetarian I've ever met is Indian. All the American ones I know have stringy, dull hair, dry, pasty skin, menstrual problems (women), and a host of health problems. This is because they read some bullshiat self-help book for vegetarians and don't learn how to practice the lifestyle correctly.


Pretty much. When I found out my health was out of control, I gave up all the animal products, and found out it's exhausting to try to do it right, and if you don't do it right you end up sick, and caucasians sometimes get sick anyway. I just try to cut back.

I did find it shocking that there's a whole host of crap that I allegedly supported when I did this, though, just like I apparently had a dum librul agenda when I bought a hybrid. I mean, hell, I thought I was trying to eat a diet that wasn't going to kill me, and thought I was trying to save money on gas. What the hell do I know?
 
2012-08-30 08:12:01 PM

OgreMagi: whidbey: OgreMagi: Biological Ali: All else being equal, a vegan probably is a better person than a non-vegan. It shouldn't be controversial to acknowledge that.

How about, no. Radical animal rights groups (who tend to be vegan) have destroyed decades of cancer research. One of the leaders of PETA, herself a diabetic, wants to deprive other people, but not herself, animal derived drugs needed to live. The vegan crowd would rather see half the world wiped out by a pendemic than allow the use of a drug that was developed from animals, or through animal testing.

F*ck them.

Yes, because every vegan is some extremist who lets animals out of their cages and into the wild.

Disingenuous, much?

I'm not the one who started with the generalities.


Because insisting that vegetarians are connected with radical animal rights groups isn't generalizing.
 
2012-08-30 08:13:05 PM

RexTalionis: It's clear to me that Friedrich and Patrick-Goudreau believe not that they are better people than meat-eaters, but instead that their dietary practices are better for animals, and for our world as a whole, than the habits of meat-eaters. Why do many people so readily confuse these two things?

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it seems to me that both Friedrich and Patrick-Goudreau referred to vegetarianism as the ethically superior thing to do. If vegetarianism is ethically superior, doesn't that mean, conversely, that eating meat is ethically inferior? Doesn't that mean that they thing being vegan or vegetarian is superior than meat eaters?

Incidentally, first world problems, man.


India is first world? There are more vegetarians in one square mile of Mumbai than there are in all of the USA.
 
2012-08-30 08:14:12 PM

whidbey: But obviously, with vegetarianism, you eat a lot less cholesterol and other crap you take on from eating animal products. And since bacon does taste so damn good, we tend to overdo it.

They really do eat healthier if you want to break it down. Bonus: they very likely eat a lot less.


Your logic is incredibly flawed...
 
2012-08-30 08:16:51 PM
Ya know what really grinds my gears with vegans/vegitarians, it becomes a real pain at say a BBQ when you are cooking and that one random person comes up asking if you have a vegitarian option. Same goes for the holidays and other events, just pisses me off.
 
2012-08-30 08:17:20 PM

WhippingBoy: whidbey: But obviously, with vegetarianism, you eat a lot less cholesterol and other crap you take on from eating animal products. And since bacon does taste so damn good, we tend to overdo it.

They really do eat healthier if you want to break it down. Bonus: they very likely eat a lot less.

Your logic is incredibly flawed...


So living a healthy lifestyle without artery-clogging corrosives constitutes a flaw in one's logic?
 
2012-08-30 08:17:26 PM

whidbey: But obviously, with vegetarianism, you eat a lot less cholesterol and other crap you take on from eating animal products.


Mmm, except that there is not really any evidence that eating meat is a cause of high cholesterol. People have hypothesized for a long time that eating saturated animal fats causes high cholesterol, but virtually all experimental evidence has shown that it actually causes people to have more healthy HDL vs. LDL levels. It seems that meat has been nutritionally vilified for so long that it doesn't matter what the actual truth is.
 
2012-08-30 08:18:46 PM

Science_Guy_3.14159: Ya know what really grinds my gears with vegans/vegitarians, it becomes a real pain at say a BBQ when you are cooking and that one random person comes up asking if you have a vegitarian option.


Give them chicken?
 
2012-08-30 08:20:15 PM

Gawdzila: whidbey: But obviously, with vegetarianism, you eat a lot less cholesterol and other crap you take on from eating animal products.

Mmm, except that there is not really any evidence that eating meat is a cause of high cholesterol. People have hypothesized for a long time that eating saturated animal fats causes high cholesterol, but virtually all experimental evidence has shown that it actually causes people to have more healthy HDL vs. LDL levels. It seems that meat has been nutritionally vilified for so long that it doesn't matter what the actual truth is.


I'd like to see that evidence, but personally, it's hard for me to imagine a nice gristly fat piece of meat is better for you than healthier alternatives that don't cause heart disease and other maladies later in life.
 
2012-08-30 08:22:22 PM
farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2012-08-30 08:25:18 PM
Well it does give you super-powers

plus4chan.org
 
2012-08-30 08:28:04 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: And just because:

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300]


Hey! Love that game. :)
 
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