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(Goal)   Who will have an easy ride through to the knockout rounds? Who will be in the Group of Death (dun-dun-DUNNNNNNN)? This is your Champions League 2012 group stage draw thread   (goal.com) divider line 103
    More: Scary, Champions League, group of death, Javier Mascherano, Modric, group stage, transfer window, White Hart Lane, broadcasts  
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611 clicks; posted to Sports » on 30 Aug 2012 at 8:57 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-30 09:01:48 AM
Here are the Pots:

Pot One: Chelsea, Barcelona, Manchester United, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Arsenal, Porto, AC Milan.
Pot Two: Valencia, Benfica, Shakhtar Donetsk, Zenit St Petersburg, Schalke, Manchester City, Braga, Dynamo Kiev.
Pot Three: Olympiakos, Ajax, Anderlecht, Juventus, Spartak Moscow, Paris St Germain, Lille, Galatasaray.
Pot Four: Celtic, Borussia Dortmund, BATE Borisov, Dinamo Zagreb, CFR Cluj, Malaga, Montpellier, FC Nordsjaelland.

Teams from the same country can't be drawn together, but Celtic and an English club could be drawn together. Hoping United get Braga or Kiev, Galatasaray or Lille and anyone but Dortmund.
 
2012-08-30 09:09:51 AM
What does a team have to do to get into this tournament? I know the disaprity in talent would be huge, but is there ever the possibility of an American club being in this thing? Just wondering.
 
2012-08-30 09:20:34 AM

imaconnect4guy: What does a team have to do to get into this tournament? I know the disaprity in talent would be huge, but is there ever the possibility of an American club being in this thing? Just wondering.


Given it's the European Champions League...uh, no.

North America has it's own Champions League, which MLS clubs participate in. Gol TV and sometimes Sportsnet will show games in Canada, I don't know about US broadcasting. But because there's almost no prize money, clubs don't send their top players out generally.

The payout just for making the group stage in Europe is huge; it can mean the difference between solvency and bankruptcy for a lot of clubs. For smaller clubs it's almost like winning the lottery.
 
2012-08-30 09:23:43 AM

Kurohone: imaconnect4guy: What does a team have to do to get into this tournament? I know the disaprity in talent would be huge, but is there ever the possibility of an American club being in this thing? Just wondering.

Given it's the European Champions League...uh, no.

North America has it's own Champions League, which MLS clubs participate in. Gol TV and sometimes Sportsnet will show games in Canada, I don't know about US broadcasting. But because there's almost no prize money, clubs don't send their top players out generally.

The payout just for making the group stage in Europe is huge; it can mean the difference between solvency and bankruptcy for a lot of clubs. For smaller clubs it's almost like winning the lottery.


Cool. Thanks for the info.
 
2012-08-30 09:29:32 AM

Kurohone: imaconnect4guy: What does a team have to do to get into this tournament? I know the disaprity in talent would be huge, but is there ever the possibility of an American club being in this thing? Just wondering.

Given it's the European Champions League...uh, no.

North America has it's own Champions League, which MLS clubs participate in. Gol TV and sometimes Sportsnet will show games in Canada, I don't know about US broadcasting. But because there's almost no prize money, clubs don't send their top players out generally.

The payout just for making the group stage in Europe is huge; it can mean the difference between solvency and bankruptcy for a lot of clubs. For smaller clubs it's almost like winning the lottery.


Fox Soccer has the rights to the US broadcasts of the CONCACAF Champions League. There were matches last week and LA won 4-0 last night. Seattle and Houston play tonight, you can check out the matches and info at: MLS Soccer.

I think the clubs that make the group stage get somewhere in the range of 30mil for the TV Rights for around the world that are split for all 32 teams. So teams from smaller countries like you said get a huge payout. It is also how some teams in England and elsewhere can stay afloat with some of their big transfers or are done in by missing out (see Leeds United).

As for qualifying (to the original question) a team can automatically qualify if they win their country's league and that country has a high enough UEFA quotient or finishes in the top two, or three for countries like England, Spain, Germany, France, and Italy. Otherwise they have to go through qualifying like Celtic, Cluj, etc. Some teams have to go through more qualifying rounds depending on how tiny their UEFA quotient is.

The website that will explain everything (if you have the time to read) can be found here: 2012-13 UEFA Champions League
 
2012-08-30 09:49:45 AM
At first I was like "Haha, Man City is going to have to play some top tier team from Pot 1".

But then I was like "Holy shiat, the Pot 1 team that draws Man City in Pot 2 is gonna be pissed".
 
2012-08-30 09:52:47 AM

Stimied in a Rut: Kurohone: imaconnect4guy: What does a team have to do to get into this tournament? I know the disaprity in talent would be huge, but is there ever the possibility of an American club being in this thing? Just wondering.

Given it's the European Champions League...uh, no.

North America has it's own Champions League, which MLS clubs participate in. Gol TV and sometimes Sportsnet will show games in Canada, I don't know about US broadcasting. But because there's almost no prize money, clubs don't send their top players out generally.

The payout just for making the group stage in Europe is huge; it can mean the difference between solvency and bankruptcy for a lot of clubs. For smaller clubs it's almost like winning the lottery.

Fox Soccer has the rights to the US broadcasts of the CONCACAF Champions League. There were matches last week and LA won 4-0 last night. Seattle and Houston play tonight, you can check out the matches and info at: MLS Soccer.

I think the clubs that make the group stage get somewhere in the range of 30mil for the TV Rights for around the world that are split for all 32 teams. So teams from smaller countries like you said get a huge payout. It is also how some teams in England and elsewhere can stay afloat with some of their big transfers or are done in by missing out (see Leeds United).

As for qualifying (to the original question) a team can automatically qualify if they win their country's league and that country has a high enough UEFA quotient or finishes in the top two, or three for countries like England, Spain, Germany, France, and Italy. Otherwise they have to go through qualifying like Celtic, Cluj, etc. Some teams have to go through more qualifying rounds depending on how tiny their UEFA quotient is.

The website that will explain everything (if you have the time to read) can be found here: 2012-13 UEFA Champions League


And since I have nothing else to add, just this trivia: It's called the Champions' League, even though teams that are not necessarily the champions of their own country participate, because it is the successor to the European Champion Clubs' Cup, usually known simply as the European Cup. That competition was a pure knockout format and strictly open to the champions of individual countries.

When the commentators talk about the prior history of clubs in this tournament, they generally include the European Cup. Thus for example, Manchester Utd were the first English club to win, in 1968 (Celtic were the first British club, winning the prior year -- but who knows what might have happened if not for the intervention of the Munich Air Disaster a decade earlier?)
 
2012-08-30 09:54:06 AM

Trapper439: At first I was like "Haha, Man City is going to have to play some top tier team from Pot 1".

But then I was like "Holy shiat, the Pot 1 team that draws Man City in Pot 2 is gonna be pissed".


Also, there's a chance one of the Pot 1 teams will draw both Man City from Pot 2 and Juventus from Pot 3. Hell, throw in Borussia Dortmund from Pot 4 as well. That would go far beyond "Group of Death" territory.
 
2012-08-30 09:56:12 AM

Trapper439: At first I was like "Haha, Man City is going to have to play some top tier team from Pot 1".

But then I was like "Holy shiat, the Pot 1 team that draws Man City in Pot 2 is gonna be pissed".


Even worse: Man City can't be in the same group as another English team, so that leaves Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Porto and AC Milan. Whatever group Man City lands in is going to be the Group of Death. If you're a team in Pot 3 or Pot 4, you are really, really going to want to avoid that group.
 
2012-08-30 10:09:09 AM

czetie: Trapper439: At first I was like "Haha, Man City is going to have to play some top tier team from Pot 1".

But then I was like "Holy shiat, the Pot 1 team that draws Man City in Pot 2 is gonna be pissed".

Even worse: Man City can't be in the same group as another English team, so that leaves Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Porto and AC Milan. Whatever group Man City lands in is going to be the Group of Death. If you're a team in Pot 3 or Pot 4, you are really, really going to want to avoid that group.


Yup. One of the groups is going to be hardcore. Personally I hope it's not Barca or Bayern that draws the short straw.
 
2012-08-30 10:12:33 AM

Trapper439: Trapper439: At first I was like "Haha, Man City is going to have to play some top tier team from Pot 1".

But then I was like "Holy shiat, the Pot 1 team that draws Man City in Pot 2 is gonna be pissed".

Also, there's a chance one of the Pot 1 teams will draw both Man City from Pot 2 and Juventus from Pot 3. Hell, throw in Borussia Dortmund from Pot 4 as well. That would go far beyond "Group of Death" territory.


Yeah, Juventus and Borussia Dortmund stood out more to me. Those will be tough outs.
 
2012-08-30 10:20:01 AM

StRalphTheLiar: Trapper439: Trapper439: At first I was like "Haha, Man City is going to have to play some top tier team from Pot 1".

But then I was like "Holy shiat, the Pot 1 team that draws Man City in Pot 2 is gonna be pissed".

Also, there's a chance one of the Pot 1 teams will draw both Man City from Pot 2 and Juventus from Pot 3. Hell, throw in Borussia Dortmund from Pot 4 as well. That would go far beyond "Group of Death" territory.

Yeah, Juventus and Borussia Dortmund stood out more to me. Those will be tough outs.


PSG could be an interesting draw from Pot 3 as well.

Could you imagine if the champions of Spain, England, Italy and Germany were drawn into a single qualifying group?
 
2012-08-30 10:24:44 AM
You could have a group with the champion of every major country (in soccer terms). Real Madrid for Spain, Man City for England, Juve for Italy and Dortmund for Germany. That would be the most insane group ever compiled.
 
2012-08-30 10:44:50 AM
How f'in fixed will this years draw be?
 
2012-08-30 10:47:04 AM
Trapper439
Even worse: Man City can't be in the same group as another English team, so that leaves Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Porto and AC Milan. Whatever group Man City lands in is going to be the Group of Death. If you're a team in Pot 3 or Pot 4, you are really, really going to want to avoid that group.

Yup. One of the groups is going to be hardcore. Personally I hope it's not Barca or Bayern that draws the short straw.


Bayern got City last year, so this year someone else can have them.
 
2012-08-30 10:49:37 AM
And somebody's going to have to deal with Ajax in Pot 3.
 
2012-08-30 11:13:17 AM
Malaga is the bonus time. Big-ass kuwaiti Sheik bought them and tooled them for the Champions League... they qualfiied... and then the Sheik declared bankrupcy and had to sell half the team that got them into the CL.
 
2012-08-30 11:43:37 AM
Who did Spurs get drawn against?

/goddammit Bayern Munich.......
//watched three killer penalty shootouts this summer
 
2012-08-30 11:46:34 AM

Kurohone: Given it's the European Champions League...uh, no.

North America has it's own Champions League, which MLS clubs participate in.


To add to this, the winners of the North American (CONCACAF) Champions League goes to the FIFA Club World Cup, where they play against the winners of the champions leagues from the other continents. Not that they have a chance of winning against the European or South American Champions, but that's how the MLS clubs fit into the overall picture.
 
2012-08-30 11:48:56 AM
the next hours?
Messi wins, CR7 presents the award
Chelsea gets Celtic because UEFA hates me!
Valencia get AC MIlan!
 
2012-08-30 11:51:08 AM

imaconnect4guy: What does a team have to do to get into this tournament? I know the disaprity in talent would be huge, but is there ever the possibility of an American club being in this thing? Just wondering.


All the Champions of European associations get in, but the big countries can get up to 4, and the best from the best countries get byes through the early rounds. There have already been 4 rounds of playoff competitions starting with matchups like the champion of Luxembourg vs. San Marino, the best of the big countries didn't have to play in any of them.
 
2012-08-30 11:51:58 AM
WOW Chelsea UEFA champions!
SUPER SUPER FRANK!
 
2012-08-30 11:58:57 AM

Trapper439: At first I was like "Haha, Man City is going to have to play some top tier team from Pot 1".

But then I was like "Holy shiat, the Pot 1 team that draws Man City in Pot 2 is gonna be pissed".


Yeah and pulling Juve or PSG out of Pot C to go with that combo would be something else
 
2012-08-30 12:02:45 PM
How the hell did Dortmund end up in Pot 4?
 
2012-08-30 12:04:44 PM

Sir Cumference the Flatulent: How the hell did Dortmund end up in Pot 4?


The moment I saw that, first thing I thought was how much they're gonna get screwed.
 
2012-08-30 12:06:24 PM

Sir Cumference the Flatulent: How the hell did Dortmund end up in Pot 4?


did any player transfer out?
 
2012-08-30 12:07:31 PM

expobill: Sir Cumference the Flatulent: How the hell did Dortmund end up in Pot 4?

did any player transfer out?


Kagawa went to ManU, but they got Reus from Mönchengladbach, which I think is a net plus.
 
2012-08-30 12:08:59 PM

Sir Cumference the Flatulent: How the hell did Dortmund end up in Pot 4?


Link
 
2012-08-30 12:09:20 PM
But that shouldn't have any bearing. it's based on domestic performance, plus performance in Europe over a 5-year period. Granted, they didn't do well the two times they were there, but the back to back Bundesliga champion (plus league/cup double) in Pot 4???
 
2012-08-30 12:10:56 PM
First time watching this and (as an American), I can't believe how quickly they're allowing this play out. Have they never seen an NFL draft?
 
2012-08-30 12:16:00 PM
ahh Borscht- we gotta play in russia
Valencia gets Bayern?
 
2012-08-30 12:19:49 PM
Woohoo, Man city + Real Madrid!
 
2012-08-30 12:20:33 PM
Real Madrid and Man City? Daaaaaaaamn.
 
2012-08-30 12:21:18 PM
Haha city and Real Madrid. Half of my prediction is happening.
 
2012-08-30 12:21:40 PM
Well, D is gonna be a fun group.
 
2012-08-30 12:23:05 PM

Gonz: Real Madrid and Man City? Daaaaaaaamn.


Tasty.
 
2012-08-30 12:27:13 PM

digistil: First time watching this and (as an American), I can't believe how quickly they're allowing this play out. Have they never seen an NFL draft?


Partly it's because most of the really meaty opinionating can only take place once the full draw is known.

And partly it's because European doesn't despise its TV viewers.
 
2012-08-30 12:27:17 PM

Gonz: Real Madrid and Man City? Daaaaaaaamn.


Half of Manchester is yelling "FARK!" and the other half is doing the Nelson laugh.
 
2012-08-30 12:29:12 PM
If Juventus ends up in D....
 
2012-08-30 12:29:55 PM
Well Valencia FC has a tough group
Juve gets Chelsea
 
2012-08-30 12:30:06 PM
Ajax in D? That's going to be some good soccer.
 
2012-08-30 12:30:58 PM
Group D is Real Madrid, Man City, Ajax so far. Daaaang.

Chelsea gets Juventus.
 
2012-08-30 12:31:01 PM

professorkowalski: If Juventus ends up in D....


Once Milan got C, Juve could only get E, F, G or H.
 
2012-08-30 12:31:26 PM
Anyone know why the last 2 groups were kept separate? Why did Ajax get forced into group D?
 
2012-08-30 12:31:49 PM

689908: Once Milan got C, Juve could only get E, F, G or H.


Yeah, I just remembered that.
 
2012-08-30 12:33:01 PM
Groups so far:

Group A: Porto, Dynamo Kiev, Paris St Germain

Group B: Arsenal, Schalke, Olympiakos

Group C: AC Milan, Zenit St Petersburg, Anderlecht

Group D: Real Madrid, Manchester City, Ajax

Group E: Chelsea, Shakhtar Donetsk, Juventus

Group F: Bayern Munich, Valencia, Lille

Group G: Barcelona, Benfica, Spartak Moscow

Group H: Manchester United, Braga, Galatasaray
 
2012-08-30 12:36:56 PM

Stimied in a Rut: Anyone know why the last 2 groups were kept separate? Why did Ajax get forced into group D?


There's a bunch of rules about what teams can be together. As well as the basic rule about keeping teams from the same country apart at this stage, there's also a rule to do with maximizing the value of television rights. I don't grok the full details, but basically the eight groups are divided into two "sets" and IIRC the two sets play on different nights of the week, and the teams are distributed so that teams from the same country play on different nights as much as possible.

Anyway, I suspect the Ajax thing is a consequence of that rule playing out wrt some of the other teams.

/I also suspect that by the time I post, somebody will have it explained it properly
 
2012-08-30 12:38:24 PM
Can we just go ahead and put PSG into the knockout stages? It'll save time and money.
 
2012-08-30 12:39:43 PM
Group D is going to be interesting.
 
2012-08-30 12:40:05 PM
YES, group of death complete!
 
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