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(Chicago Trib)   Someone has noticed Darwin Barney of the Cubs has broken the NL record for longest error-free streak, which will undoubtedly end today   (chicagotribune.com) divider line 44
    More: Fail, Darwin Barney, Major League Baseball, Cubs, streaks, official scorer, Luis Valbuena, Starlin Castro, mistakes  
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796 clicks; posted to Sports » on 30 Aug 2012 at 8:42 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-30 08:47:45 AM  
First off: Darwin? Darwin BARNEY?!

Who the Hell hates their kid enough to give him that name?
 
2012-08-30 08:48:19 AM  
Fail is for general Cubs hatred, or something else?
 
2012-08-30 09:13:17 AM  

Jedekai: Who the Hell hates their kid enough to give him that name?


To be fair, there's no name you could give your child that wouldn't sound ridiculous with the last name Barney.
 
2012-08-30 09:31:16 AM  

Jedekai: First off: Darwin? Darwin BARNEY?!

Who the Hell hates their kid enough to give him that name?


There's a real estate lawyer in NYC named Richard Dickler... who names their kid Dick Dickler?
 
2012-08-30 09:45:03 AM  
Darwin's a solid player. Not really an offensive plus, but could be the perfect utility guy. I'm curious to see if the Cubs want to hang on to him during the rebuild, or if he gets traded to a contender in the next year or two.
 
2012-08-30 09:50:04 AM  

gsiofa: Fail is for general Cubs hatred, or something else?


Yes, Cubs fans are fark are unfairly persecuted. It's almost as bad as the persecution of white Christian males in America.
 
2012-08-30 10:00:32 AM  

Orgasmatron138: Darwin's a solid player. Not really an offensive plus, but could be the perfect utility guy. I'm curious to see if the Cubs want to hang on to him during the rebuild, or if he gets traded to a contender in the next year or two.


We need pitching. He will be traded for two low A pitchers sometime next year if he keeps up the good defensive play.
 
2012-08-30 10:12:54 AM  
Am I the only one that thinks this pic needs to be shopped?

img6.imageshack.us
 
2012-08-30 10:21:04 AM  
whoot Oregon State Beavers, played on both championship teams. Never was a power guy but solid in the field.
 
2012-08-30 10:22:30 AM  

Saiga410: Orgasmatron138: Darwin's a solid player. Not really an offensive plus, but could be the perfect utility guy. I'm curious to see if the Cubs want to hang on to him during the rebuild, or if he gets traded to a contender in the next year or two.

We need pitching. He will be traded for two low A pitchers sometime next year if he keeps up the good defensive play.


Not gonna happen. Theo's a Sabermetrics guy, and Barney's WAR suggests he's as valuable as Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera while making $500K and being under team control for a long time. He's looking to add guys like that, not move them.
 
2012-08-30 10:33:06 AM  

roncofooddehydrator: There's a real estate lawyer in NYC named Richard Dickler... who names their kid Dick Dickler?


Or Destinee Hooker? Really.
 
2012-08-30 10:50:14 AM  
You might say his streak has been legend wait for it dary
 
2012-08-30 10:55:01 AM  
Fark Darwin Barney. That is all.
 
2012-08-30 11:01:47 AM  

roncofooddehydrator: Jedekai: First off: Darwin? Darwin BARNEY?!

Who the Hell hates their kid enough to give him that name?

There's a real estate lawyer in NYC named Richard Dickler... who names their kid Dick Dickler?


Even better is the RV salesman in east Indiana named Tom Raper. His billboards are almost every mile on I70.
 
2012-08-30 11:09:36 AM  

Hoopy Frood: Saiga410: Orgasmatron138: Darwin's a solid player. Not really an offensive plus, but could be the perfect utility guy. I'm curious to see if the Cubs want to hang on to him during the rebuild, or if he gets traded to a contender in the next year or two.

We need pitching. He will be traded for two low A pitchers sometime next year if he keeps up the good defensive play.

Not gonna happen. Theo's a Sabermetrics guy, and Barney's WAR suggests he's as valuable as Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera while making $500K and being under team control for a long time. He's looking to add guys like that, not move them.


FanGraph's WAR has both Cabrera and Votto well ahead. B-R's WAR has Cabrera a full win better and has Votto even - but that's only because Votto has played 38 fewer games this season.
 
2012-08-30 11:24:09 AM  

Rex_Banner: Hoopy Frood: Saiga410: Orgasmatron138: Darwin's a solid player. Not really an offensive plus, but could be the perfect utility guy. I'm curious to see if the Cubs want to hang on to him during the rebuild, or if he gets traded to a contender in the next year or two.

We need pitching. He will be traded for two low A pitchers sometime next year if he keeps up the good defensive play.

Not gonna happen. Theo's a Sabermetrics guy, and Barney's WAR suggests he's as valuable as Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera while making $500K and being under team control for a long time. He's looking to add guys like that, not move them.

FanGraph's WAR has both Cabrera and Votto well ahead. B-R's WAR has Cabrera a full win better and has Votto even - but that's only because Votto has played 38 fewer games this season.


Plus, Barney's cheap now, but won't be by the time the Cubs are ready to contend. My guess is they unload him either in the offseason or next year. If he starts out hot next year like he did the is year, maybe a midseason trade would bring the best value for him.
 
2012-08-30 11:26:53 AM  

Rex_Banner: Hoopy Frood: Saiga410: Orgasmatron138: Darwin's a solid player. Not really an offensive plus, but could be the perfect utility guy. I'm curious to see if the Cubs want to hang on to him during the rebuild, or if he gets traded to a contender in the next year or two.

We need pitching. He will be traded for two low A pitchers sometime next year if he keeps up the good defensive play.

Not gonna happen. Theo's a Sabermetrics guy, and Barney's WAR suggests he's as valuable as Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera while making $500K and being under team control for a long time. He's looking to add guys like that, not move them.

FanGraph's WAR has both Cabrera and Votto well ahead. B-R's WAR has Cabrera a full win better and has Votto even - but that's only because Votto has played 38 fewer games this season.


His logic is sound, though. Cabrera has put up a 5.5 WAR this year on a $21 million salary. Barney has a 4.6 WAR while making $500k. That means Detroit is paying about $3m per win from Cabrera and the Cubs are paying about $100k. Throw in the fact that Barney is under team control for four more years and you get a player to build around, not to trade.
 
2012-08-30 11:56:35 AM  

Rex_Banner: Hoopy Frood: Saiga410: Orgasmatron138: Darwin's a solid player. Not really an offensive plus, but could be the perfect utility guy. I'm curious to see if the Cubs want to hang on to him during the rebuild, or if he gets traded to a contender in the next year or two.

We need pitching. He will be traded for two low A pitchers sometime next year if he keeps up the good defensive play.

Not gonna happen. Theo's a Sabermetrics guy, and Barney's WAR suggests he's as valuable as Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera while making $500K and being under team control for a long time. He's looking to add guys like that, not move them.

FanGraph's WAR has both Cabrera and Votto well ahead. B-R's WAR has Cabrera a full win better and has Votto even - but that's only because Votto has played 38 fewer games this season.


I was supposed to type Melky Cabrera, who's leading the league in hitting. Sorry about that. Still, we're talking about a second-year defensive infielder with limited power whose average has slipped from last year, and still finds himself rounding out the top 10 in the league. And he's made one error all year at a position where that would have been unthinkable not too long ago.
 
2012-08-30 11:57:18 AM  

rugman11: Rex_Banner: Hoopy Frood: Saiga410: Orgasmatron138: Darwin's a solid player. Not really an offensive plus, but could be the perfect utility guy. I'm curious to see if the Cubs want to hang on to him during the rebuild, or if he gets traded to a contender in the next year or two.

We need pitching. He will be traded for two low A pitchers sometime next year if he keeps up the good defensive play.

Not gonna happen. Theo's a Sabermetrics guy, and Barney's WAR suggests he's as valuable as Joey Votto or Miguel Cabrera while making $500K and being under team control for a long time. He's looking to add guys like that, not move them.

FanGraph's WAR has both Cabrera and Votto well ahead. B-R's WAR has Cabrera a full win better and has Votto even - but that's only because Votto has played 38 fewer games this season.

His logic is sound, though. Cabrera has put up a 5.5 WAR this year on a $21 million salary. Barney has a 4.6 WAR while making $500k. That means Detroit is paying about $3m per win from Cabrera and the Cubs are paying about $100k. Throw in the fact that Barney is under team control for four more years and you get a player to build around, not to trade.


Meh...... the guy only has one more year left before he goes to arbitration. Now, he's not going to earn a ton in his arb years, but it will be more than $500k.

He doesn't have any offensive value, but he does play solid defense at an up the middle position. To me, he's not the kind of guy that you refuse to trade. If there is a team offering a piece or pieces that you want/need, you don't let a player like Barney hold it up. But at the same time, you don't need to go out an desperately shop him just for the sake of moving him. If the offer is there, then great - pull the trigger. But if not, that's fine too. he's a suitable piece to have.
 
2012-08-30 11:59:52 AM  

Hoopy Frood: I was supposed to type Melky Cabrera,


Ahhh - that makes more sense now.
 
2012-08-30 12:00:52 PM  

roncofooddehydrator: Jedekai: First off: Darwin? Darwin BARNEY?!

Who the Hell hates their kid enough to give him that name?

There's a real estate lawyer in NYC named Richard Dickler... who names their kid Dick Dickler?


My ex's music teacher was named Richard Peter Dick.
 
2012-08-30 12:19:22 PM  

Rex_Banner: Meh...... the guy only has one more year left before he goes to arbitration. Now, he's not going to earn a ton in his arb years, but it will be more than $500k.

He doesn't have any offensive value, but he does play solid defense at an up the middle position. To me, he's not the kind of guy that you refuse to trade. If there is a team offering a piece or pieces that you want/need, you don't let a player like Barney hold it up. But at the same time, you don't need to go out an desperately shop him just for the sake of moving him. If the offer is there, then great - pull the trigger. But if not, that's fine too. he's a suitable piece to have.


Yeah, you're right. I guess I didn't realize exactly how much his defense was contributing to his overall value. He's never been a good hitter and he's barely been able to manage a .300 OBP in the majors and he has a well below average OPS+. Ozzie Smith gets the reputation as the ultimate all-defense/no-offense player, but he was regularly putting up offensive WARs in the 3s and 4s and not the 1.2-1.3 that Barney is putting up.
 
2012-08-30 12:50:40 PM  
You guys are killing me with this rWAR junk. According to baseball reference & DRS, DARWIN BARNEY has been worth 3 wins this year MORE than the average defensive 2B, yet for the last two years, he WAS an average 2B. In other words, if the Cubs were playing 2011 Barney instead of 2012 Barney, rWAR says they'd be 46-83, not 49-80. Does anyone actually believe that?

UZR has its problems in single-season samples, but they're nothing compared to how screwy DRS gets. At least they finally fixed the shift issue...otherwise, Lawrie would be a ~7 win player on defense.
 
2012-08-30 01:30:08 PM  

JosephFinn: Even better is the RV salesman in east Indiana named Tom Raper.


Just curious. Does he have any kids?
 
2012-08-30 01:57:28 PM  
For some reason I pictured him with purple skin.
 
2012-08-30 01:59:08 PM  
The streak damn near ended yesterday.
 
2012-08-30 03:08:53 PM  

DeWayne Mann: You guys are killing me with this rWAR junk. According to baseball reference & DRS, DARWIN BARNEY has been worth 3 wins this year MORE than the average defensive 2B, yet for the last two years, he WAS an average 2B. In other words, if the Cubs were playing 2011 Barney instead of 2012 Barney, rWAR says they'd be 46-83, not 49-80. Does anyone actually believe that?

UZR has its problems in single-season samples, but they're nothing compared to how screwy DRS gets. At least they finally fixed the shift issue...otherwise, Lawrie would be a ~7 win player on defense.


It would take into account the year-to-year progress of a young ballplayer. He was called up in 2010 and split time, and only earned the full time starting job last year. So yes, I would expect some improvement from year to year.
 
2012-08-30 03:37:50 PM  

Orgasmatron138: It would take into account the year-to-year progress of a young ballplayer. He was called up in 2010 and split time, and only earned the full time starting job last year. So yes, I would expect some improvement from year to year.


Some improvement, yes. But, again, according to DRS, he went from an average defensive 2B in 2010&2011 to being worth as much on defense as, say, Robinson Cano is worth on offense this year. That makes no realistic sense.

UZR, on the other hand, had him being below average in 2010 (with a small sample), a pretty good defensive player last year, and still the top defensive 2B in the league this season...but has his glove worth somewhere between the offense of Aaron Hill & Jose Altuve. I still think that sounds high but it's at least somewhat believable.

Let's put it another way, but still involving offense, because that's a little earlier to visualize. Last season, Mark Trumbo hit .254/.291/.477. He's young, though, and so we'd expect him to get a little better, and he actually put a LOT of work into pitch selection. As a result, he'shiatting .277/.330/.524 this year. That makes sense!

If, instead, he was hitting .325/.390/.583 (aka, Miguel Cabrera's 2012)...you'd be a little suspicious, right? Now imagine how suspicious it would be if slash stats were especially known for buggy single year samples.
 
2012-08-30 04:03:47 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Orgasmatron138: It would take into account the year-to-year progress of a young ballplayer. He was called up in 2010 and split time, and only earned the full time starting job last year. So yes, I would expect some improvement from year to year.

Some improvement, yes. But, again, according to DRS, he went from an average defensive 2B in 2010&2011 to being worth as much on defense as, say, Robinson Cano is worth on offense this year. That makes no realistic sense.

UZR, on the other hand, had him being below average in 2010 (with a small sample), a pretty good defensive player last year, and still the top defensive 2B in the league this season...but has his glove worth somewhere between the offense of Aaron Hill & Jose Altuve. I still think that sounds high but it's at least somewhat believable.

Let's put it another way, but still involving offense, because that's a little earlier to visualize. Last season, Mark Trumbo hit .254/.291/.477. He's young, though, and so we'd expect him to get a little better, and he actually put a LOT of work into pitch selection. As a result, he'shiatting .277/.330/.524 this year. That makes sense!

If, instead, he was hitting .325/.390/.583 (aka, Miguel Cabrera's 2012)...you'd be a little suspicious, right? Now imagine how suspicious it would be if slash stats were especially known for buggy single year samples.


Do you think it gets back to valuing offense over defense?
 
2012-08-30 04:30:12 PM  

DeWayne Mann:

Let's put it another way, but still involving offense, because that's a little earlier to visualize. Last season, Mark Trumbo hit .254/.291/.477. He's young, though, and so we'd expect him to get a little better, and he actually put a LOT of work into pitch selection. As a result, he'shiatting .277/.330/.524 this year. That makes sense!

If, instead, he was hitting .325/.390/.583 (aka, Miguel Cabrera's 2012)...you'd be a little suspicious, right? Now imagine how suspicious it would be if slash stats were especially known for buggy single year samples.


Miguel Cabrera is an interesting comparison. He went from a 3.5 oWAR in his first full season in 2004 to 6.5 two years later to 3.3 in 2008 and back to 6.6 in 2010. Now, the big drop in 2008 is probably, in part, due to his move from third to first, but his OPS+ also dropped from 159 to 130 between 2006 and 2008. I should also note that none of this was influenced by injuries as, of those four years, he had the fewest plate appearances in his two best years.

The point I'm trying to make is that Cabrera's offensive improvement from his first full season to his third is exactly the same (3.0 WAR) as Barney's defensive improvement from last year to this year.

Another example might be Justin Morneau, who went from a 0 WAR player in his first full season (.239/.304/.437 in 543 PA) to a 3.8 WAR player the next year (.321/.375/.559 in 661 PA).

I don't know how the facets of the game are weighted in WAR, and it's possible that defense is overvalued, but I think Barney's defensive numbers this year are due less to the failing of defensive stats (though that argument can be made) and more to the fact that players can, and often do, improve significantly from year to year, especially early on in their careers.
 
2012-08-30 04:32:47 PM  

Orgasmatron138: Do you think it gets back to valuing offense over defense?


There's no way we can properly value defense (whether or not it's in relation to offense) if we keep getting results like these. Again, let's look at another example involving offense. There are a few ways to can put a number on how well a player hits compared to average. OPS+ simply looks at their OBP & SLG. wRC+ uses linear weights AND includes stolen bases/caught stealings.

And yet, in general, a player's wRC+ will be very, very close (within +/- 5) to their OPS. You only see two real exceptions to this: players who have a lot more SLG than OBP (or vice versa), or players who both A. attempt a lot of steals and B. are either very good or very bad at it.

And even then, the differences aren't super huge. Trumbo has an OPS+ 9 points higher than his wRC+ because his OBP is somewhat low. The largest gap I see is someone like Vince Coleman, whose wRC+ was about 20 points higher for his first few seasons.

But, as I said, in general, it's pretty close. Once you have how much better a player is than average, it's very, very easy to figure out how many runs better than average they are. So, yeah, if you base RAR on OPS+, you'll get slightly different results than wRC+ RAR for the same player...but it'll be close. Almost certainly less than a win for the vast majority of players.

We have two competing defensive systems (that even look at the exact same data, so it's not like you can say they're doing different things). One says that this player is worth 20 more runs on defense as the other one. That's sort of insane. And it's not like Barney is the only guy this is true for. Check out the difference between UZR & DRS for, say, Alfonso Soriano. DRS says that Soriano has been an exactly average LF over his career; UZR says he's been very, very good. I could probably find two or three guys per team that have wildly different defensive ratings from these guys.

It's quite clear neither system is "right." In my experience, UZR tends to be righter, but still not nearly as reliable as any sort of offensive rating system we have. So, yeah, I'm a little wary of saying "[Guy who was an average defender last year] is worth as much on defense as [ONE OF THE BEST HITTERS IN THE GAME] on offense" for many, many reasons.
 
2012-08-30 04:53:26 PM  

rugman11: Miguel Cabrera is an interesting comparison. He went from a 3.5 oWAR in his first full season in 2004 to 6.5 two years later to 3.3 in 2008 and back to 6.6 in 2010. Now, the big drop in 2008 is probably, in part, due to his move from third to first, but his OPS+ also dropped from 159 to 130 between 2006 and 2008. I should also note that none of this was influenced by injuries as, of those four years, he had the fewest plate appearances in his two best years.

The point I'm trying to make is that Cabrera's offensive improvement from his first full season to his third is exactly the same (3.0 WAR) as Barney's defensive improvement from last year to this year.

Another example might be Justin Morneau, who went from a 0 WAR player in his first full season (.239/.304/.437 in 543 PA) to a 3.8 WAR player the next year (.321/.375/.559 in 661 PA).

I don't know how the facets of the game are weighted in WAR, and it's possible that defense is overvalued, but I think Barney's defensive numbers this year are due less to the failing of defensive stats (though that argument can be made) and more to the fact that players can, and often do, improve significantly from year to year, especially early on in their careers.


Ok, hold on, couple of issues here.

First and foremost, using oWAR is NOT the way you want to be looking at Miguel Cabrera. It adjusts for position, and he went back & forth a lot between COF & 3B before finally settling at 1B for awhile.

When you take position out, he gained about a win and a half on offense from 2004 to 2005. In fact, he never gained or lost more than 1.5 wins from one season to the next, even with that one year slump upon going to the Tigers.

Barney gained 3 defensive wins in an offseason. That's like, twice as many.

Morneau IS a better example...but is sort of exactly what I was saying in the first place. He gained almost 4 offensive wins on offense between 2005 and 2006...and then gave 2 back the next season. Perhaps my use of the word "suspicious" was a poor choice earlier, but this is essentially what I meant. It's fairly obvious that neither 2005 OR 2006 was Morneau's true talent level, just as I suspect neither "0 defensive runs saved" or "30 defensive runs saved" is Barney's true talent level.

Finally, as I was just sort of saying, it's not so much an issue of WEIGHT...it's an issue of measurement. Let's say you're packing a one-pound suitcase for a trip. If it weighs more than 30 pounds, you have to pay a massive fee, so you want to avoid that. You have two scales. One is pretty reliable, but can only hold a little weight. You weigh your toiletries on that and they're 6 pounds. Your other scale holds more, but you think it might be broken: today it told you you weigh 150, but yesterday it said 180. You weigh your clothes on that, and it says 22. All together, that's 29 pounds, right?

How confident are you that you'll avoid that fee?
 
2012-08-30 05:02:25 PM  

DeWayne Mann: rugman11: ***snip***


Is my suitcase on steroids? Because I am fairly confident that my suitcase can out throw Bartolo Colon.
 
2012-08-30 05:06:50 PM  

roc6783: DeWayne Mann: rugman11: ***snip***

Is my suitcase on steroids? Because I am fairly confident that my suitcase can out throw Bartolo Colon.


Well now that's just crazy. Everyone knows that suitcases leave the country to get experimental surgery when they want to make a comeback.
 
2012-08-30 05:45:54 PM  
Just because I want to close the window where I've got this written down, in case anyone is confused about how the suitcase relates to Barney:

b-ref says that, overall, Barney "weighs" 43 lbs. They say that he is a 2 pound suitcase (like all second basemen). They measured his bat with the good scale; it weighs 6. They measured his shoes with an ok scale; they weigh 5. They measured his glove with the crappy scale; it weighs 30.

Anyone else think he weighs 43?
 
2012-08-30 05:53:56 PM  

DeWayne Mann: You guys are killing me with this rWAR junk. According to baseball reference & DRS, DARWIN BARNEY has been worth 3 wins this year MORE than the average defensive 2B, yet for the last two years, he WAS an average 2B. In other words, if the Cubs were playing 2011 Barney instead of 2012 Barney, rWAR says they'd be 46-83, not 49-80. Does anyone actually believe that?

UZR has its problems in single-season samples, but they're nothing compared to how screwy DRS gets. At least they finally fixed the shift issue...otherwise, Lawrie would be a ~7 win player on defense.


Let's say that b-r's defensive component is off. That's fair (and probably right). But if you look at his two full seasons of UZR, he's still a good defensive 2B. He's not the type of guy you build a team around by any stretch, but he has some value. If someone wants him, they should trade him. If not, they can keep him around - there is a place for a decent, cheap all-glove guy on the roster.
 
2012-08-30 06:00:53 PM  

Rex_Banner: Let's say that b-r's defensive component is off. That's fair (and probably right). But if you look at his two full seasons of UZR, he's still a good defensive 2B. He's not the type of guy you build a team around by any stretch, but he has some value. If someone wants him, they should trade him. If not, they can keep him around - there is a place for a decent, cheap all-glove guy on the roster.


And I'm not saying he's not good. But there's no friggen way he's one of the top 10 NL position players in 2012. And to say that he is, based almost entirely on a known buggy system...well, I kinda understand why those old talking heads on TV and in the newspaper hate these new-fangled stats.

Barney appears to be a slightly above average player, overall: way below average bat, but good defense & baserunning. fWAR says this; rWAR doesn't.
 
2012-08-30 06:05:07 PM  

DeWayne Mann: But there's no friggen way he's one of the top 10 NL position players in 2012.


And, perhaps, more to the point: EVEN IF he's one of the top 10 NL position players of 2012 (which, again, doubtful)....there's absolutely no reason to believe he will be next year.
 
2012-08-30 08:18:30 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Rex_Banner: Let's say that b-r's defensive component is off. That's fair (and probably right). But if you look at his two full seasons of UZR, he's still a good defensive 2B. He's not the type of guy you build a team around by any stretch, but he has some value. If someone wants him, they should trade him. If not, they can keep him around - there is a place for a decent, cheap all-glove guy on the roster.

And I'm not saying he's not good. But there's no friggen way he's one of the top 10 NL position players in 2012. And to say that he is, based almost entirely on a known buggy system...well, I kinda understand why those old talking heads on TV and in the newspaper hate these new-fangled stats.

Barney appears to be a slightly above average player, overall: way below average bat, but good defense & baserunning. fWAR says this; rWAR doesn't.


I agree with that, which Is why I don't get how he can be a player that the Cubs can build around. He's useful, but he isn't going to be a central part of a team.
 
2012-08-30 08:25:26 PM  

Rex_Banner: I agree with that, which Is why I don't get how he can be a player that the Cubs can build around. He's useful, but he isn't going to be a central part of a team.


Right. And so, to take it a step further & tie the thread together, if Epstein finds a trade partner who actually believes that 4.6 rWAR is legit, he'd be a fool NOT to make a trade there.
 
2012-08-30 08:38:15 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Rex_Banner: I agree with that, which Is why I don't get how he can be a player that the Cubs can build around. He's useful, but he isn't going to be a central part of a team.

Right. And so, to take it a step further & tie the thread together, if Epstein finds a trade partner who actually believes that 4.6 rWAR is legit, he'd be a fool NOT to make a trade there.


Oh absolutely. If there is a team willing to give up a lot to get him, they should ship him without thinking twice about it.
 
2012-08-30 10:25:13 PM  
Amusingly, Kevin Goldstein happens to be talking about Darwin Barney on twitter RIGHT NOW. He says Barney shouldn't even be a starting 2B in the majors.
 
2012-08-31 12:01:24 AM  
He's no Henry skrimshander

/obscure?
 
2012-08-31 08:59:12 AM  
I agree with the general thread - Barney is a decent player that while under his rookie contract is a value add for a baseball team. He's a player you could win with, but not one that you build around.


UncleStumpy: He's no Henry skrimshander

/obscure?


One of the best selling books of the last year is generally not obscure.
 
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