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(Abc.net.au)   Billionaire: "If you're jealous of those with more money, don't just sit there and complain; do something to make more money yourself - spend less time drinking, or smoking and socialising, and more time working"   (abc.net.au) divider line 440
    More: Obvious, smoking  
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9336 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Aug 2012 at 11:04 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-30 11:41:07 AM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Then I guess I'll start robbing rich people. If I work hard at it, I can be rich too.


a wise man once said: "a man with a briefcase can steal more money than any man with a gun"
 
2012-08-30 11:41:10 AM
"When I refuse to give food to the poor, they call me a Republican. When I ask why the poor are so lazy and why don't they get a job, they call me a Republican."
 
2012-08-30 11:41:36 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: vpb: dittybopper: TsarTom: ...after parlaying a multi-million dollar inheritance...

The problem isn't that the poor want to be poor. They don't, obviously. It's that they don't generally have the financ ...

It's nothing to do with the long term poor, she is talking about the middle class. The people who do the actual work that makes people like her rich.

She might actually do some work, but that's not where here money comes from, she simply inherited a company which gives her the right to take whatever the employees of the company produce and give them as little as she can get away with.

I have never understood why someone would be able to inherit an organization anyway, like it was a piece of furniture or something. It's almost like the feudal system where nobles inherit a manor and get to take a big share of what the serfs produce, simply because of birth.

Youre looking at it from the wrong angle. Why shouldn't the person who built the organization be able to do whatever he/she wants with it?

If I am smart/lucky/hard working enough to build a business worth $100m/$2m/150k or whatever, why shouldn't I be able to give it to my lazy stupid son? Sure, he didn't do anything to deserve it but I did and want it to go to him.


Dynastic wealth has no place in a democracy.

In any event, go ahead and give it to him. He gets taxed on his new income. Sounds fair to me.
 
2012-08-30 11:42:17 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: ringersol: It's telling that the anti-tax, anti-regulation types all assume the core motivation behind regulations, taxes and commonwealth services is jealousy of others' wealth.
Not, ya know, *history* and the fact that having these things has been better for everyone than not having them.

How much tax? How much regulation? No reasonable person would want to do away with all taxes or all regulation, just like no reasonable person would advocate a 95% income tax rate. There is an optimal line and reasonable people can differ about where that line ought to be.


You are wasting your breath. To them you want zero taxes and you want to dump radioactive waste in the river.
 
2012-08-30 11:43:58 AM

Cythraul: cig-mkr: 1) You will never get rich working for someone else
2) You can't get rich by spending every dime you make on toys
3) You have to make your money work for you
4) Be frugal, but always buy the best you can afford
5) Set goals and stay the course to achieve those goals
6) Invest in the long term, (never met a rich day trader)

When does your book come out?


No book, these were life lessons I've learned (almost too late in life, I was 50 at the time)
I should have included:

7) Invest in the "dogs of the Dow" that would be blue chips that give good dividends.
8) Take the dividends and plow them back into the stocks. It feeds on itself and you would be amazed how quickly it grows.
 
2012-08-30 11:44:11 AM
It's easy to say that when you're born rich, or you had a ton of advantages many people don't have.
 
2012-08-30 11:44:29 AM

vpb: That's comical. No one gets rich from hard work. You can inherit it, you can steal it, you can exploit flaws in the financial system, you can get lucky in the stock market (assuming you have a lot of money to invest in the first place), win the lottery etc. Working won't do it for you, working makes other people rich.

Besides, it is interesting to me that the wealthy people who think this way are almost always people who inherited their money. People like Warren Buffett seem to have more of a grasp of reality, since they actually had to do something to make their money.


I think you are disqualifying a lot of definitions of "work."
 
2012-08-30 11:44:37 AM
While it's idiotic to hold up as examples of success people that inherited their wealth, it's just as idiotic to deny that poverty is largely a behavioral disorder. There have been plenty of examples/stories right here on Fark about poor people hitting a lottery or windfall and ending up right back at skid row or prison within a few years.
 
2012-08-30 11:44:51 AM

GAT_00: Just 'working more' will not make you a millionaire. If that was the case, grad students would all be incredibly rich when they got done.


You hush...with your fancy thinking, facts, and reality.
 
2012-08-30 11:45:07 AM

fireclown: cig-mkr: 1) You will never get rich working for someone else
2) You can't get rich by spending every dime you make on toys
3) You have to make your money work for you
4) Be frugal, but always buy the best you can afford
5) Set goals and stay the course to achieve those goals
6) Invest in the long term, (never met a rich day trader)


I'm not sure about 1). I've met a lot of six figure folks who work for the man.

For grist, I'm a big fan of the Dave Ramsey plan. I know it gets a little Jesus-y from time to time, but I worked the plan for a few years in a secular way and it did wonders. No credit card debt, no car debt, and I have a cash fund ready to blow on a car when my trusty '02 Prius dies. Get yo' backside out of debt pronto.


Six figures isn't rich. It's a lot of money and I'd like to be making that, but it's not rich. Well, maybe if the six figures are all 9s.
 
2012-08-30 11:45:07 AM
Yeah, she's an asshat. It is extremely unlikely that working hard will ever make you a billionaire on its own, however working hard can get you to a very decent upper middle class life. My wife and her ex-husband worked the standard jobs and a ton of overtime. They saved and eventually were able to open their own business. They did very well, bringing in about 200k a year net. They were on their way to being millionaires, but a tragic motorcycle accident ended that dream.

The point is, it is possible to live a great life through hard work. They sacrificed a lot while building their business. Small house, used cars, no eating out or entertainment with every penny going towards getting the business. That and a lot of luck, no doubt, the right place, right time. However, no matter how hard they worked they were never ever going to be billionaires. Having a few million wasn't of reach in the long term, but rich isn't what I would have considered them.

But, as much as I don't like this billionaire, she does have a point. There are many a poor person who is kept poor by very bad decisions. New cars every two years, expensive clothing, big screen tv's. Saving is just not in most poor peoples state of mind. I see many waste what limited assets they have on things that have no value. However, it takes money to make money. Being poor sucks balls and getting out of it I'd difficult to damn near impossible.

So, I guess what I am saying is that both sides have valid points, although neither side understands each other. Man, I really need to get some sleep.
 
2012-08-30 11:45:39 AM
I have a fantasy in which people are not allowed to graduate high school until they can give a dumbed-down, plain-English explanation of the word "stochastic." People seem very uncomfortable with the idea that although you can skew the odds in your favor, there are just some things in life that are out of your control (or effectively random.)

There is a big difference between "Hard work makes you rich" and "Hard work makes you more likely to get rich."
 
2012-08-30 11:45:54 AM

GAT_00: Just 'working more' will not make you a millionaire. If that was the case, grad students would all be incredibly rich when they got done.


Bingo. If I doubled my hours at my $18k per year job it wouldnt make me wealthy. It would only get me back where I was 6+ years ago. Even then I was mostly broke, but I had nicer stuff. Like a house and a new car. Now the car is 8 years old, the house is gone and we are living with the mother-in-law. I also did less physical work than I do now. Now its more work for less money.

What have I learned? When the economy is bad Florida is a terrible place to be. Well, it always sucked, it just sucks even more to be in FL AND broke.

/2 weeks till we leave this terrible state forever
 
2012-08-30 11:45:59 AM

fireclown: Probably something to that, even though the messenger might be less than ideal.

What the hell. OK FARK, lets brainstorm. I'm willing to blow $500 on a startup. It has to be something that I can do while still working full time. Gimme your ideas.


$500? lol
 
2012-08-30 11:47:30 AM
It's true. I could probably make more money if I didn't fark around so much. I quit drinking, but I still burn at least 90 minutes a day here.
 
2012-08-30 11:47:47 AM
The key to success in Capitalism is... wait for the surprise... capital.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-08-30 11:47:51 AM

Cythraul: shadownick: Cythraul: When a millionaire/billionaire

Also keep in mind that people who are not born in wealth but become wealthy are usually slaves to their jobs I've met a few people like this. "Workaholic" would be a kind word to describe their work ethic. After seeing the sacrifices these kinds make in order to get more wealth, I sometimes wonder if it isn't better to try and eek out a living off of a modest middle class life than to try and become a rags-to-riches millionaire.


That is true sometimes, but usually those people have more sympathy with people who aren't wealthy because they didn't just have it fall into their laps. The problem is that they have an obsessive compulsive disorder, and have an unhealthy obsession with grasping at money. Also, expending effort isn't the same thing as "work" unless you think of work as something other than productive labor.

Most people have a more balanced outlook on life and just want to have a comfortable middle class life. They aren't jealous of the uber wealthy, the problem is that you can't really benefit from working harder if you are in the middle class because someone else decides what your labor is worth.

In our economic system, unless you have a strong union you are either rich or cheap labor. There simply isn't any provision for someone who wants to work hard for 40 or so hours and then live a normal life spending time with their family

The reason that the executives of corporations make hundreds of times what the employees make is that they are in a position to determine what labor is worth. As much as possible for themselves and as little as possible for the people who actually produce things.
 
2012-08-30 11:48:15 AM

fireclown: cig-mkr: 1) You will never get rich working for someone else
2) You can't get rich by spending every dime you make on toys
3) You have to make your money work for you
4) Be frugal, but always buy the best you can afford
5) Set goals and stay the course to achieve those goals
6) Invest in the long term, (never met a rich day trader)


I'm not sure about 1). I've met a lot of six figure folks who work for the man.

For grist, I'm a big fan of the Dave Ramsey plan. I know it gets a little Jesus-y from time to time, but I worked the plan for a few years in a secular way and it did wonders. No credit card debt, no car debt, and I have a cash fund ready to blow on a car when my trusty '02 Prius dies. Get yo' backside out of debt pronto.


I've known six figure men too, had money, toys, and ate well but lacked the one thing to make it good: Time
 
2012-08-30 11:48:15 AM

Martian_Astronomer: There is a big difference between "Hard work makes you rich" and "Hard work makes you more likely to get rich."


So, luck makes you rich. Perhaps by being born to a family that's got money coming out the wazoo.
 
2012-08-30 11:48:19 AM

impaler: Carousel Beast: vpb: That's comical. No one gets rich from hard work. You can inherit it, you can steal it, you can exploit flaws in the financial system, you can get lucky in the stock market (assuming you have a lot of money to invest in the first place), win the lottery etc. Working won't do it for you, working makes other people rich.

Besides, it is interesting to me that the wealthy people who think this way are almost always people who inherited their money. People like Warren Buffett seem to have more of a grasp of reality, since they actually had to do something to make their money.

Are you willfully ignorant, or just inherently stupid?

He's not far off. Sure, one can start a business and work 120 hours a week at it, but at the end of the day, if the market doesn't want their product, they're not getting rich.

Bill gates sold the rights to MS-DOS to IBM before he owned MS-DOS. The the owner of MS-DOS at the time learned that, he might have ignored Gate's offer to buy it and then he could have sold it to IBM. That simple exchange of information, through no fault of Gates, would have cost him billions. That's not hard work - that's luck.

If Jobs didn't have the engineering genius of Wozniak (they met in high-school), he would have never had an Apple computer to sell. If Wozniak didn't have the marketing sense of Jobs, his computer would have never sold like it did. Again - luck.

You could argue they would have all been millionaires anyway, but that's just speculation. No way would they be billionaires. At best, you can with a healthy amount of certainty they could be in jobs making low 6 figures a year. That is doable through "hard-work," assuming you know how to get there (i.e. lucky enough to have parents to guide you in your teenage years), and have the talent for those jobs (again luck. Not everyone can be a Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer).


and if either of these tech giants didn't have the developments of the Xerox PARC to take their ideas and 'commercialize' them neither company would have been as successful.
 
2012-08-30 11:50:21 AM

fireclown: Probably something to that, even though the messenger might be less than ideal.

What the hell. OK FARK, lets brainstorm. I'm willing to blow $500 on a startup. It has to be something that I can do while still working full time. Gimme your ideas.


Make apps that allow you to look like you're working when you're really goofing off.

/cut me in at 10%
 
2012-08-30 11:50:48 AM
jayhawk88
.....Which is really why everyone is pissed off at rich people; not because we're "jealous".


Headso
Like Ann Romney talking about how hard her and Mitt had it in the early days when they could only borrow tens of thousands of dollars from their parents... Life is so hard and they made it all on their own.

Orgasmatron138
Yeah, people, you all should have spent more time being born into wealthy families.

orclover
Mrs Rinehart, who has seen her fortunes rise after parlaying a multi-million dollar inheritance into a mining empire now worth more than $20 billion, blames anti-business and socialist policies for hurting the poor.

Some days I wish I could get my hands on gods throat.


Definitely not because of jealousy. definitely.
 
2012-08-30 11:51:46 AM
img442.imageshack.us

Someone once asked Richard Branson what was the fastest way for someone to become a millionaire. His answer "Be a billionaire and start an airline"

I dont care what you say about this lady she was handed she built on it. She is a success. Maybe just maybe she could have just sat on the money and not done a damn thing but live off the interest for the rest of her life. Instead she put people to work and make money while doing it. I can see why people around her would trash her for it.
 
2012-08-30 11:52:51 AM
Yeah, you lazy assholes. Inherit millions of dollars. It's easy. All you have to do is make sure you slide out of the right vagina.
 
2012-08-30 11:53:15 AM

clevershark: Martian_Astronomer: There is a big difference between "Hard work makes you rich" and "Hard work makes you more likely to get rich."

So, luck makes you rich. Perhaps by being born to a family that's got money coming out the wazoo.


94% of America's millionaires are first generation, self made. But you knew that.
 
2012-08-30 11:53:21 AM
So someone who didn't work for her money is telling me I need to work harder to get money?
Go fark yourself, fatty.
 
2012-08-30 11:54:04 AM
How is what she is saying (and under the same circumstances) differing much from say what Donald Trump spreads? It's the same sort of arrogance, neatly summed up by the old adage: they were born on third base yet are convinced they've hit a triple all on their own. (You could toss the Koch Bros in that mix as well)

Someone above mentioned Zuckerberg and Bill Gates as examples of those who kind of made it on their own. I kind of accept that, but yet the reality is that both of those individuals were afforded the opportunities that a certain degree of inherent wealth provides. (Both came from fairly affluent households and were admitted to Harvard, where the formed alliances and friendships with other people from equally affluent backgrounds that lead to them creating a business that resulted in their huge wealth gains.)

Much like Mitt Romney's pedigree and family's affluence allowed for him to set himself up in business and amass a fortune.

On the other hand, you do have some people who came out of near poverty conditions and built up businesses, without the support (financial and other) and without the networking opportunities afforded those who came from affluence and wealth. Sam Walton (WalMart), Dave Thomas (Wendy's), John Paul DeJoria (Paul Mitchell), Larry Ellison (Oracle), Steve Jobs, et al.


But this ugly beyotch really has some nerve. Would love to see where she would be in life without the fortune she inherited. My guess is one of those folks she's complaining about, you know the ones who were far too lazy to make sure that they were born to wealthy parents.
 
2012-08-30 11:54:41 AM
She looks like she spends most of her time eating, not working.
 
2012-08-30 11:57:03 AM

clevershark: To be honest I don't think I'd accept your money either. It's one thing to be in debt to the bank, another to be in debt to a person you're not related to, and I don't want a phone call in the middle of the night sometime down the road from a guy who once leant me some cash who now needs help moving a body.


Someone else replied similarly - this is not a loan I was offering. Once a person has a position after getting an associates they need money to float them until their first paycheck. This is being offered as float money and without payback. The help has also been solicited via normal conversations. There is no high and mighty involved, not a handout like situation, and these people have been friends. I have been fortunate enough to live in a car down by the river and scratch my way up. I was given similar means and assistance and did something with it. Just paying it forward so to speak.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-08-30 11:57:07 AM

Carousel Beast: vpb: That's comical. No one gets rich from hard work. You can inherit it, you can steal it, you can exploit flaws in the financial system, you can get lucky in the stock market (assuming you have a lot of money to invest in the first place), win the lottery etc. Working won't do it for you, working makes other people rich.

Besides, it is interesting to me that the wealthy people who think this way are almost always people who inherited their money. People like Warren Buffett seem to have more of a grasp of reality, since they actually had to do something to make their money.

Are you willfully ignorant, or just inherently stupid?


Is this the "paint your opponent with your weakness thing?

Are you really stupid enough to think anyone ever got rich by working hard, or are you stupid enough to think that the financial shenanigans, fraud and similar things that actually make people rich are "work"?
 
2012-08-30 11:58:58 AM
Oh look, another biatch who was born on third base and thinks she hit a triple.
 
2012-08-30 11:59:23 AM
So you sacrifice your life to the sole accumulation of wealth so your hedonistic ungrateful kids (who hate you for never being there) can make idiotic comments about working hard to get where they are?
 
2012-08-30 11:59:26 AM

Magnus: jayhawk88
.....Which is really why everyone is pissed off at rich people; not because we're "jealous".


Headso
Like Ann Romney talking about how hard her and Mitt had it in the early days when they could only borrow tens of thousands of dollars from their parents... Life is so hard and they made it all on their own.

Orgasmatron138
Yeah, people, you all should have spent more time being born into wealthy families.

orclover
Mrs Rinehart, who has seen her fortunes rise after parlaying a multi-million dollar inheritance into a mining empire now worth more than $20 billion, blames anti-business and socialist policies for hurting the poor.

Some days I wish I could get my hands on gods throat.

Definitely not because of jealousy. definitely.


You sound sarcastic. Which is odd, because nothing they said there indicates jealousy. They're talking about how people born into wealth act like they did it on their own. "Born on third base and think they hit a triple" is the phrase.
 
2012-08-30 12:01:09 PM

Mary_Contrary: How many of you are at work right now?
That helps explain it.


Are the Kochs paying people to troll on Fark now too?
 
2012-08-30 12:02:42 PM
I know how to make a small fortune in the stock market, and I'll tell it to you for free: start with a large fortune.
 
2012-08-30 12:02:51 PM

Visionmn2: Someone else replied similarly - this is not a loan I was offering. Once a person has a position after getting an associates they need money to float them until their first paycheck. This is being offered as float money and without payback. The help has also been solicited via normal conversations. There is no high and mighty involved, not a handout like situation, and these people have been friends. I have been fortunate enough to live in a car down by the river and scratch my way up. I was given similar means and assistance and did something with it. Just paying it forward so to speak.


It's your money, you do what you want, but anyone would be suspicious that payback will be required at some point in time. You know how the mafia gets people "on side"? They do them a favor first. I'm sure that's not what you have in mind, but the adage "there's no such thing as a free lunch" resonates with people who have some experience of the world.
 
2012-08-30 12:03:20 PM

vudukungfu: The nicest millionaires I know don't talk much at all. You wouldn't know they are loaded, either. They don't roll the poor.


That's really the difference between old money and new money, right there. Folks who got rich by their own hard work are often very humble and such. those who inherited the money feel more entitled and elitist about it.

I've known a few multimillionaires who are self made, hell I work for one. Both are the nicest guys you'd ever meet.
 
2012-08-30 12:03:44 PM

TsarTom: ...after parlaying a multi-million dollar inheritance...

Yeah... Shut up.


You are right, building up your network 100x is easy, and just because she started with something, she doesn't know anything about the benefits of hard work and perseverance.

Actually, she makes an even better role model. She probably could have afforded to sit back and have a comfortable existence doing nothing, but she instead built up a vast financial holding.
 
2012-08-30 12:03:49 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I dont care what you say about this lady she was handed she built on it. She is a success. Maybe just maybe she could have just sat on the money and not done a damn thing but live off the interest for the rest of her life. Instead she put people to work and make money while doing it. I can see why people around her would trash her for it.


Because she's telling people (a quite a few that have worked a hell of a lot harder than she ever has), to "just work harder to get rich." She would have never been able to start a billion dollar business if she didn't already have a millions of dollars. She has no idea how to become rich if you don't have millions of dollars.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-08-30 12:04:49 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: bifford: So the 99% are all lazy idiots?

Well, those who identify themselves as part of "the 99%" are idiots.


Is this the "paint your opponent with your weakness thing?

Are you really stupid enough to think anyone ever got rich by working hard, or are you stupid enough to think that the financial shenanigans, fraud and similar things that actually make people rich are "work"?
 
2012-08-30 12:05:50 PM

qorkfiend: Sure. But it's a little galling for someone who inherited millions of dollars to sit and lecture people about hard work.


Someone who could have afforded to do nothing, instead worked hard and multiplied her fortune 100x? How is this galling?
 
2012-08-30 12:06:50 PM
It's physics. You can point all your force into the ground and you won't go anywhere. Point your force parallel to the surface, and you can make progress. Working hard only gets you somewhere if you have a good plan.
 
2012-08-30 12:06:52 PM

vpb: GAT_00: Just 'working more' will not make you a millionaire. If that was the case, grad students would all be incredibly rich when they got done.

Generally the people who work hardest are the poorest. You get rich by acquiring the right to the product of other people's wealth.


Can you even remotely back this up?
 
2012-08-30 12:07:07 PM

MycroftHolmes: You are right, building up your network 100x is easy, and just because she started with something, she doesn't know anything about the benefits of hard work and perseverance.


We can say for certain she has no idea how to build up your net worth 100X if you already don't have millions of dollars. Her advice is useless to anyone that doesn't have millions of dollars.
 
2012-08-30 12:07:10 PM
 
2012-08-30 12:07:28 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I dont care what you say about this lady she was handed she built on it. She is a success. Maybe just maybe she could have just sat on the money and not done a damn thing but live off the interest for the rest of her life. Instead she put people to work and make money while doing it. I can see why people around her would trash her for it.


I don't think people here are faulting her for building on her fortune. What they're faulting her for is her fundamental misunderstanding of challenges facing the lower middle class, and increasingly the middle class.

Rising out of poverty is not easily done, and with a few notable exceptions requires societal support (at a minimum in the form of education). This is a nut that the US and the rest of the first world has found tough to crack. We do a progressively sh*tty job as you move down the class structure.

Her sentiment that poor pull oneself out of poverty simply by working harder and more, while she advocates actually lowering minimum wage is at best laughably out of touch.
 
2012-08-30 12:07:40 PM

TsarTom: ...after parlaying a multi-million dollar inheritance...

Yeah... Shut up.


Exactly. NO ONE is allowed to become a millionaire these days unless the OTHER millionaires allow him/her to enter their ranks, or they inherit a huge sack of money from their dead parents.

Warren Buffet would STILL be bagging groceries if he was born fourty years later than he was.
 
2012-08-30 12:08:30 PM

Carousel Beast: vpb: That's comical. No one gets rich from hard work. You can inherit it, you can steal it, you can exploit flaws in the financial system, you can get lucky in the stock market (assuming you have a lot of money to invest in the first place), win the lottery etc. Working won't do it for you, working makes other people rich.

Besides, it is interesting to me that the wealthy people who think this way are almost always people who inherited their money. People like Warren Buffett seem to have more of a grasp of reality, since they actually had to do something to make their money.

Are you willfully ignorant, or just inherently stupid?


The numbers for financial upward mobility say he's pretty right. Americans are working just as hard as they've ever been, and it's getting them nowhere.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-08-30 12:09:02 PM

impaler: What if I'm not jealous of those with more money, and just want the arsholes that are super rich to stop farking everyone over?


No, you have to be rich or lazy. Just being a normal person who works for a living isn't something that wealthy people can get their heads around.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-08-30 12:10:28 PM

KatjaMouse: orclover: Mrs Rinehart, who has seen her fortunes rise after parlaying a multi-million dollar inheritance into a mining empire now worth more than $20 billion, blames anti-business and socialist policies for hurting the poor.

Some days I wish I could get my hands on gods throat.

There are some churches that actually tell people they're poor because they're not Christian enough. Ya rly.


That's just the protestant work "ethic".
 
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