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(Abc.net.au)   Billionaire: "If you're jealous of those with more money, don't just sit there and complain; do something to make more money yourself - spend less time drinking, or smoking and socialising, and more time working"   (abc.net.au) divider line 440
    More: Obvious, smoking  
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9338 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Aug 2012 at 11:04 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-30 06:43:21 PM  

Flint Ironstag: but the more people who become wealthy the more those workers will have to be paid.


Didn't the Hutt in the article suggest the minimum wage be lowered?
 
2012-08-30 06:45:33 PM  

roc6783: vpb: That's comical. No one gets rich from hard work. You can inherit it, you can steal it, you can exploit flaws in the financial system, you can get lucky in the stock market (assuming you have a lot of money to invest in the first place), win the lottery etc. Working won't do it for you, working makes other people rich.

Besides, it is interesting to me that the wealthy people who think this way are almost always people who inherited their money. People like Warren Buffett seem to have more of a grasp of reality, since they actually had to do something to make their money.

No matter how many times I explain this issue, there are still delusional morons that refuse to believe in reality. There is 1 component to success, opportunity. There is a laundry list of things you can do to improve the likelihood of taking advantage of your opportunity/opportunities, many of which are in your control, but the fact remains that without out opportunity, none of those other factors matter.


Successful people make their opportunities. Most people would find themselves sharing an elevator with Donald Trump/Steven Spielberg/Bill Gates and think "Whoa! I'm in an elevator with Donald Trump/Steven Spielberg/Bill Gates!"
Successful people would seize that twenty seconds to say "Mr Trump/Spielberg/Gates, I have a proposal involving the property downtown/my script/a programme. Can you spare five minutes to have a look at the details?" while handing them their card.
You'd be surprised how often that would work as long as you come across as sane and plausible. I've had several successes.

And yes, most people won't be sharing an elevator with Trump/Spielberg or Gates. But if you're a shelf filler at Walmart you might share an elevator with the GSM or an area manager. How about saying "I'm Joe Sixpack on grocery. I've got a suggestion for cutting cost/increasing sales"? Most people wouldn't even do that.
 
2012-08-30 06:47:56 PM  

Loadmaster: Despite all the vitriol in this thread, she has a valid point.

Sure, she inherited millions. But she worked hard and turned in into billions.

Her point is that hard work is a good thing, and that sloth and living off the dole are bad things. And she's correct.

But to be completely fair, she missed the obvious fact that hard work alone is not enough to make you fabulously wealthy. It takes having a good marketable idea that's worth money in order to become a millionaire/billionaire.


There have been some amazingly stupid ideas that have made millions. The snuggle blanket thing. Pet rocks. Truck nuts. Fox News.
 
2012-08-30 06:51:13 PM  

Loadmaster: Despite all the vitriol in this thread, she has a valid point.

Sure, she inherited millions. But she worked hard and turned in into billions.

Her point is that hard work is a good thing, and that sloth and living off the dole are bad things. And she's correct.

But to be completely fair, she missed the obvious fact that hard work alone is not enough to make you fabulously wealthy. It takes having a good marketable idea that's worth money in order to become a millionaire/billionaire.


It's amusing that people here keep referring to her hard work. Aside from going to court to secure her inherited millions, I don't see how people get "hard work" out of her activities. She bought companies. With millions of dollars she inherited (and she inherited a mining company, too). There's no "work" there. I'm guessing her lawyers did more work in that regard than she ever did. I've no doubt that she's smart, but smart and hard-working are not the same thing. She didn't go down into the mines herself and bring up valuable raw materials. She sat in a very nice office and signed contracts.

She's the same type of hard-working billionaire as Rupert Murdoch (he inherited his start in business, too). Her hypocritical posturing is the same social Darwinist bullshiat we hear over here from Republicans and the billionaires they work for.
 
2012-08-30 06:52:43 PM  

MikeMc: Flint Ironstag: but the more people who become wealthy the more those workers will have to be paid.

Didn't the Hutt in the article suggest the minimum wage be lowered?


Yes.
 
2012-08-30 06:55:42 PM  

Heron:
Because an organization is necessarily a group effort. Why do you get to claim ownership? Because you put down the start-up capital? Did you construct your factories, build all your production, organize the work, oversee it, handle all the sales and advertising? Those people clocking in everyday to ensure your business remains productive and successful have as much, if not a more, of a claim to owning their collective activity than you, the money-man. You don't "own" a corporation any more than you own the employees who do all the work. A corporation employs, produces goods, pays taxes; it is a social entity and as such a more democratic form of management and "ownership" which takes these other concerned parties into consideration is not only morally fairer but also more efficient, as Germany and Japan's heavily unionized and consistently robust manufacturing sectors prove.


This would be like the Japanese car industry that fired every union worker in the 1960s and hired a completely new workforce and set up "tame" in-house unions?
Or the German car companies like Mercedes, VW and BMW who are moving huge amounts of production to Hungary, Spain and even the UK and the USA?

If I start a company then it's mine. End of discussion. You work for me and I pay you a wage each week, that's the deal. You want to own a company, start your own. Lots of people do every day.

If I can't own my business and do what I want, within the law of course, with it then I won't risk my money starting it. Result: No new jobs, no wealth created, no taxes paid.
Why should I risk my money starting a business if I don't own it?
 
2012-08-30 07:00:54 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: She bought companies. With millions of dollars she inherited (and she inherited a mining company, too). There's no "work" there


Most of Hancock's revenue comes from revenue splits with mining companies that extract minerals from Hancocks leases.

Flint Ironstag: Successful people make their opportunities. Most people would find themselves sharing an elevator with Donald Trump


The Donald? The Donald who was set-up in business by his multi-millionaire real estate developer father? The Donald whose businesses have declared bankruptcy multiple times? The Donald who is being sued because he stopped making payments on the Trump Tower Chicago claiming the recession was an act of God? The Donald who claims to be a billionaire but can't afford a decent haircut? That Donald Trump?
 
2012-08-30 07:02:17 PM  

BgJonson79: impaler: BgJonson79: signaljammer: Bill Gates grew up in one of two communities, as I did in the other, that made computers available to students at the time. His father was a patent attorney who was able to keep Microsoft private up to the 286 gen on his own dime. His mother was on the board of the Red Cross along with the president of IBM, so he got the contract for the PC OS. Sweat of his brow.

What you're saying, then, is that his parents aren't idiots. Weird how that works out. Smart kids have smart parents.

He sold MS-DOS to IBM before he owned MS-DOS. He had "connections."

How many stupid parents have good connections? Or stupid kids?


Think connections are all? Look at Prince Edward. His mother is The Queen. The freakin Queen Of England. You cannot be better connected than that, it is just not possible. He started his TV production business, several very wealthy people invested.

And he failed dismally.

He couldn't make a success of a TV production business in the UK, where there are hundreds of independent production companies making lots of money. Graham Norton just sold his prodco today for $25million.
 
2012-08-30 07:02:43 PM  
And the fastest rowers in the wells of Ben Hur sailing vessels get to be captain someday.

Umm, those were slaves.
 
2012-08-30 07:04:06 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's amusing that people here keep referring to her hard work. Aside from going to court to secure her inherited millions, I don't see how people get "hard work" out of her activities. She bought companies. With millions of dollars she inherited (and she inherited a mining company, too). There's no "work" there.

She's the same type of hard-working billionaire as Rupert Murdoch (he inherited his start in business, too). Her hypocritical posturing is the same social Darwinist bullshiat we hear over here from Republicans and the billionaires they work for.


Or even in this thread. They treat billionaires who were born on third base like rock stars with god-like powers and because they haven't managed to lose their vast fortune, they're better with money than the poor bastard who only has an engineering degree (something actually useful) and only makes a paltry 6 figures.
 
2012-08-30 07:04:21 PM  

Flint Ironstag: There have been some amazingly stupid ideas that have made millions. The snuggle blanket thing. Pet rocks. Truck nuts.


Which just shows the randomness of the "right place/right time" prosperity. The "pet rock" creator failed multiple attempts to repeat its success.
 
2012-08-30 07:04:40 PM  

Jon Snow: BgJonson79: Lionel Mandrake: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I dont care what you say about this lady she was handed she built on it. She is a success.

Give me a shiat-ton of money and I guaran-farkin-tee I'll turn it into more money.

Thousands of times as much? Cause I'll send $10 right now if you can turn it into $30k.

Brain harder. Jesus farking christ.

If you start with a $10 million inheritance at birth and do nothing other than put it in a savings account with 5% interest, by the time you're 30, it will be worth four times as much.

If you put it in the market during the 70s-90s, it would be still more.

If you happened to inherit a mining empire and put the money back into mining, like the ogre from TFA, it would be still more.


Not in real terms. The number might be four times bigger. But what it is worth will be much the same. At the moment with rates where they are you'd be losing money.

Having four times as many dollars is not much when everything costs four times as much.....
 
2012-08-30 07:07:15 PM  

Flint Ironstag: If I can't own my business and do what I want, within the law of course, with it then I won't risk my money starting it. Result: No new jobs, no wealth created, no taxes paid.


Wrong. You're not a unique snow flake. If you have an idea, 100s of others do as well. If the market demands your product and you don't risk a business, someone else will fill it and make new jobs, create wealth, and pay taxes.
 
2012-08-30 07:07:26 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Loadmaster: Despite all the vitriol in this thread, she has a valid point.

Sure, she inherited millions. But she worked hard and turned in into billions.

Her point is that hard work is a good thing, and that sloth and living off the dole are bad things. And she's correct.

But to be completely fair, she missed the obvious fact that hard work alone is not enough to make you fabulously wealthy. It takes having a good marketable idea that's worth money in order to become a millionaire/billionaire.

There have been some amazingly stupid ideas that have made millions. The snuggle blanket thing. Pet rocks. Truck nuts. Fox News.


he only said marketable.. he didn't say smart AND marketable. With the average IQ of slightly above two digits in the US, some lower depending on the region like inner cities, Southern states or Appalachia regions... you don't exactly need to invent a practical pulse ion engine to become a billionaire.
 
2012-08-30 07:07:42 PM  

MikeMc: The Donald? The Donald who was set-up in business by his multi-millionaire real estate developer father? The Donald whose businesses have declared bankruptcy multiple times? The Donald who is being sued because he stopped making payments on the Trump Tower Chicago claiming the recession was an act of God? The Donald who claims to be a billionaire but can't afford a decent haircut? That Donald Trump?


What meant by "too big to fail". These people aren't any better with their money than anyone else. They simply have too many fingers in too many pies to ever truly go broke.
 
2012-08-30 07:10:54 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Think connections are all? Look at Prince Edward. His mother is The Queen. The freakin Queen Of England. You cannot be better connected than that, it is just not possible. He started his TV production business, several very wealthy people invested.

And he failed dismally.


Dubya couldn't run a baseball team and couldn't find oil (both were handed to himj). In Texas. The Harvard MBA at work. He later served two terms as leader of the free world. Yes, connections. May not be all but they sure don't hurt.
 
2012-08-30 07:13:44 PM  

SpectroBoy: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I dont care what you say about this lady she was handed she built on it. She is a success. Maybe just maybe she could have just sat on the money and not done a damn thing but live off the interest for the rest of her life. Instead she put people to work and make money while doing it. I can see why people around her would trash her for it.

Here's the problem. If you are handed millions you have money and time to invest and work on growing your fortune.

If you are a single parent working 2-3 jobs to make ends meet you are lucky if, by the end of the month, you can pay your bills. There is no "working harder" once you are already working 2-3 jobs and raising a kid. There are only so many hours in a day.

I have several friends who have kids and work multiple HARD jobs like waitress, bartender, etc. They get up early, work all day, and if they are lucky get to spend an hour or two with their kids before collapsing from exhaustion to start again tomorrow.

The fat pig can can go fark herself.


Maybe they shouldn't have had a kid before they knew they could afford to feed it. Kids cost money and take lots of looking after. Ergo if I am poor I won't have a kid until after I get a job and income that can comfortably support me and rugrat.
 
2012-08-30 07:18:13 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Alan Sugar


Flint Ironstag: Alan Sugar


Flint Ironstag: Alan Sugar


The irony of someone claiming that a man like Sugar- 1) whose parents had a business in 2) one of the most prosperous cities in the entire developed word, who 3) grew up in a country that educated him and provided him with a social safety net, and gave him his first employment all at tax payer expense- is self-made, is simply staggering.

Did he work hard? No doubt. Did he exploit every opportunity that came his way? Sure.

Ain't too many Alan Sugars (in terms of "success", not hard work) coming out of the developing world's slums, champ. There's a reason for that, and isn't farking work ethic.

Have you ever traveled out of the developed world?
 
2012-08-30 07:20:56 PM  

Flint Ironstag: SpectroBoy: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I dont care what you say about this lady she was handed she built on it. She is a success. Maybe just maybe she could have just sat on the money and not done a damn thing but live off the interest for the rest of her life. Instead she put people to work and make money while doing it. I can see why people around her would trash her for it.

Here's the problem. If you are handed millions you have money and time to invest and work on growing your fortune.

If you are a single parent working 2-3 jobs to make ends meet you are lucky if, by the end of the month, you can pay your bills. There is no "working harder" once you are already working 2-3 jobs and raising a kid. There are only so many hours in a day.

I have several friends who have kids and work multiple HARD jobs like waitress, bartender, etc. They get up early, work all day, and if they are lucky get to spend an hour or two with their kids before collapsing from exhaustion to start again tomorrow.

The fat pig can can go fark herself.

Maybe they shouldn't have had a kid before they knew they could afford to feed it. Kids cost money and take lots of looking after. Ergo if I am poor I won't have a kid until after I get a job and income that can comfortably support me and rugrat.


Life circumstances change, buddy.

I am a single dad making ends meet because my wife decided, after 12 years, that it was "too hard being a mom" and took off leaving my girls with me (which I do not regret for a moment; I love being a dad...loved being a husband, too, but...well, yeah.).

I'm just saying, don't paint every poor, single person with kids using the same brush.
 
2012-08-30 07:22:20 PM  

MikeMc: Flint Ironstag: None inherited money. None stole it. None made their fortune gambling on the stock market. None won the lottery.

And none are the subjects of this article.


The comment I was replying to said "No one" can get rich through hard work, only stealing, inheriting etc.
 
2012-08-30 07:26:41 PM  

roc6783: Flint Ironstag: Carousel Beast: vpb: ***snip***
None inherited money. None stole it. None made their fortune gambling on the stock market. None won the lottery. They worked for it and made their fortune.

And all took advantage of fortuitous market conditions that provided opportunities out of their control. How many other people do the same thing, but fail, and aren't held up as paragons of stick-to-it-ness and hard work? Also, how many of those people became billionaires off the sweat of their own brows? Oh that's right, none. They may have had an idea or design, but they all have/had armies of people working for them to get them to the billionaire plateau.

The idea that anyone can be wildly rich without significant contributions from other people is ridiculous. Why do people keep buying into the mythical "self-made man"? There comes a point when an individual's labor and vision is not enough to expand a business. From the point you take on your first employee, partner, investor, or loan you are no longer "self-made". You are now standing on the backs of others.

I do not begrudge anyone their fortune, just stop claiming that they did it all through hard work, guts, and bootstraps. If there is someone out there that owns a sole proprietorship, is their only employee, never took a loan or endowment, and is a billionaire, then that person would have a better argument. Now if that person amassed that wealth without the privilege of using publicly funded utilities, roads, courts, or technologies, then they would have an even stronger argument.

Until you find such a person, stop claiming that anyone is "self-made", it is preposterous.


Who has ever said that? They employed people. Those people got paid a wage. They didn't risk their money. Who has ever claimed a "self made" billionaire achieved their success without employing anyone? Isn't being a job creator (and the taxes that generates) a good thing? Isn't that part of the benefit of starting a business? That's the whole point!
 
2012-08-30 07:27:02 PM  

WhoGAS: I am a single dad making ends meet because my wife decided, after 12 years, that it was "too hard being a mom" and took off leaving my girls with me


You should have left the children with her before she left them with you.

What poor people don't understand, is that their inability to plan and make smart financial decisions is what holds them back. And this is a perfect example.

/Condescending rich arsehole that can't comprehend money over anything else.
 
2012-08-30 07:29:14 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Having four times as many dollars is not much when everything costs four times as much.....


It... It almost sounds like you're talking about inflation.

But then:

At the moment with rates where they are you'd be losing money.

You seem to realize that our economy is depressed and has basically no inflation.

Are you trolling me?

Using really modest interest rate of 5% and the current inflation rate, she'd have essentially tripled her initially inheritance by doing nothing, taking into consideration inflation. Want to say inflation should be greater? Fine, so should her interest rates. We can do this all day. You'll still be gabbing about "self-made" men and believe every idiotic word of it.
 
2012-08-30 07:30:30 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Isn't being a job creator (and the taxes that generates) a good thing?


The middle class are the job creators. No one ever made more money by making more of a product that doesn't sell.
 
2012-08-30 07:32:58 PM  

MikeMc: Flint Ironstag: but the more people who become wealthy the more those workers will have to be paid.

Didn't the Hutt in the article suggest the minimum wage be lowered?


And the average wage in countries like the US, with lots of millionaires, is far higher than most countries around the world where they have fewer millionaires.

Look at Japan. When they started flooding the US with cheap radios and cheap cars it was because they paid peanuts and could undercut US workers. A couple of decades later all wages have risen and Japan started to lose out to Korea. Now Koreas average wages have risen and has started to lose out to China....
The cycle continues. As an economy succeeds everyone benefits. All wages rise.
 
2012-08-30 07:35:58 PM  

MikeMc:

Flint Ironstag: Successful people make their opportunities. Most people would find themselves sharing an elevator with Donald Trump

The Donald? The Donald who was set-up in business by his multi-millionaire real estate developer father? The Donald whose businesses have declared bankruptcy multiple times? The Donald who is being sued because he stopped making payments on the Trump Tower Chicago claiming the recession was an act of God? The Donald who claims to be a billionaire but can't afford a decent haircut? That Donald Trump?


Does any of that invalidate my point? If I had a business proposal, in property or in TV, or maybe even hair products, he could still be a very good connection.
 
2012-08-30 07:39:02 PM  

impaler: Flint Ironstag: If I can't own my business and do what I want, within the law of course, with it then I won't risk my money starting it. Result: No new jobs, no wealth created, no taxes paid.

Wrong. You're not a unique snow flake. If you have an idea, 100s of others do as well. If the market demands your product and you don't risk a business, someone else will fill it and make new jobs, create wealth, and pay taxes.


Way to miss the point. Why would any of them take the risk if you're going to tell them they don't own the business, can't make the decisions and can't leave it to their children?

Why would anyone take that risk without the potential for the reward?
 
2012-08-30 07:39:49 PM  

Flint Ironstag: MikeMc:

Flint Ironstag: Successful people make their opportunities. Most people would find themselves sharing an elevator with Donald Trump

The Donald? The Donald who was set-up in business by his multi-millionaire real estate developer father? The Donald whose businesses have declared bankruptcy multiple times? The Donald who is being sued because he stopped making payments on the Trump Tower Chicago claiming the recession was an act of God? The Donald who claims to be a billionaire but can't afford a decent haircut? That Donald Trump?

Does any of that invalidate my point? If I had a business proposal, in property or in TV, or maybe even hair products, he could still be a very good connection.


No, what invalidates your point is that you think someone like that will pay 2 shats to what some random person says to them on the streets. You might as well try to bump into a producer in Hollywood and hand him your script. I'm sure some will even be nice and take it. They will throw it away the first chance they get though.
 
2012-08-30 07:41:01 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Way to miss the point. Why would any of them take the risk if you're going to tell them they don't own the business, can't make the decisions and can't leave it to their children?


Who suggested we do that?
 
2012-08-30 07:41:22 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Having four times as many dollars is not much when everything costs four times as much.....


If someone quadrupled their money since the 80s they would way way way ahead of the rate of inflation. Their real purchasing power would have increased by a huge amount.
 
2012-08-30 07:47:15 PM  

WhyteRaven74: If someone quadrupled their money since the 80s they would way way way ahead of the rate of inflation. Their real purchasing power would have increased by a huge amount.


You think his arguments (or any of the others' perpetuating these myths) are based on something other than ideology and myth?
 
2012-08-30 07:50:56 PM  

Jon Snow: Flint Ironstag: Alan Sugar

Flint Ironstag: Alan Sugar

Flint Ironstag: Alan Sugar

The irony of someone claiming that a man like Sugar- 1) whose parents had a business in 2) one of the most prosperous cities in the entire developed word, who 3) grew up in a country that educated him and provided him with a social safety net, and gave him his first employment all at tax payer expense- is self-made, is simply staggering.

Did he work hard? No doubt. Did he exploit every opportunity that came his way? Sure.

Ain't too many Alan Sugars (in terms of "success", not hard work) coming out of the developing world's slums, champ. There's a reason for that, and isn't farking work ethic.

Have you ever traveled out of the developed world?


So, much the same as the Australians this article is talking about then?

Sugar grew up in a council flat. That's social housing to Americans. If you're trying to claim he was in any way "privileged" then you're way off.

And millionaires coming out of the slums? How about this Indian woman, from the Untouchable caste, who made her fortune?
 
2012-08-30 07:51:10 PM  

Jon Snow: are based on something other than ideology and myth?


No.
 
2012-08-30 07:53:33 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Sugar grew up in a council flat.


BTW a person is far more likely to become rich after growing up poor in Australia or England, or Germany, or France, or, well pretty much anywhere but the US.
 
2012-08-30 07:55:06 PM  

WhoGAS:

Life circumstances change, buddy.

I am a single dad making ends meet because my wife decided, after 12 years, that it was "too hard being a mom" and took off leaving my girls with me (which I do not regret for a moment; I love being a dad...loved being a husband, too, but...well, yeah.).

I'm just saying, don't paint every poor, single person with kids using the same brush.


My apologies. I should have made it clear I was speaking hypothetically, not to "you". But I hope you accept that there are many who just have a kid at 16 and then struggle. Just as some people blow their first pay check on a plasma TV or a Playstation rather than pay the rent or save some.
 
2012-08-30 08:04:37 PM  

impaler: Flint Ironstag: MikeMc:

Flint Ironstag: Successful people make their opportunities. Most people would find themselves sharing an elevator with Donald Trump

The Donald? The Donald who was set-up in business by his multi-millionaire real estate developer father? The Donald whose businesses have declared bankruptcy multiple times? The Donald who is being sued because he stopped making payments on the Trump Tower Chicago claiming the recession was an act of God? The Donald who claims to be a billionaire but can't afford a decent haircut? That Donald Trump?

Does any of that invalidate my point? If I had a business proposal, in property or in TV, or maybe even hair products, he could still be a very good connection.

No, what invalidates your point is that you think someone like that will pay 2 shats to what some random person says to them on the streets. You might as well try to bump into a producer in Hollywood and hand him your script. I'm sure some will even be nice and take it. They will throw it away the first chance they get though.


I've met a few people in Hollywood, and some top execs in the UK. I've got a couple of reads (and got some excellent notes so I know at least one of their readers read my script) and some contacts. It can and does happen.

Richard Branson is in the airline business because some total stranger sent him a proposal wanting him to fund his airline. He'd never met the bloke or heard of him, but he read it and that's how Virgin Atlantic started.

That's the thing about successful business people. They are looking for new ideas and new ventures. They will listen.
 
2012-08-30 08:05:45 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: FTFA:Mrs Rinehart, who has seen her fortunes rise after parlaying a multi-million dollar inheritance into a mining empire now worth more than $20 billion, blames anti-business and socialist policies for hurting the poor.

Let me translate Marie Antoinette here into layman's terms: "Stop complaining about shiatty wages, shiatt hours, and shiatty mining conditions. STFU, GBTW, do as you're told, and maybe someday you'll be as rich as me."


Or as it's more popularly known: The Republican Party Platform.
 
2012-08-30 08:07:14 PM  

Flint Ironstag: much the same as the Australians this article is talking about then


The same safety net for Australians that this Jabba the Hut who was born into a fortune is actively trying gut? Yes. Riddle me this, Donald Trump- do Australians enjoy greater or lesser odds of being wealthy than children born in developing world slums?

Flint Ironstag: If you're trying to claim he was in any way "privileged" then you're way off.


You apparently have no farking idea what a lack of privilege really is.

Flint Ironstag: How about this Indian woman, from the Untouchable caste, who made her fortune?


Do you have a hard time discriminating between "Ain't too many" and zero? Because it sounds like you do. $112 million dollars does not make you Alan farking Sugar, either. You're only off by an order of magnitude, but hey, I guess that's good enough, huh?
 
2012-08-30 08:10:27 PM  

impaler: Flint Ironstag: Way to miss the point. Why would any of them take the risk if you're going to tell them they don't own the business, can't make the decisions and can't leave it to their children?

Who suggested we do that?


The poster I was replying to who said no one should "own" a business or be able to pass it on to their children, it should belong to the employees.
 
2012-08-30 08:16:48 PM  

clevershark: cig-mkr: 1) You will never get rich working for someone else
2) You can't get rich by spending every dime you make on toys
3) You have to make your money work for you
4) Be frugal, but always buy the best you can afford
5) Set goals and stay the course to achieve those goals
6) Invest in the long term, (never met a rich day trader)

7) good relations with the local mafia chapter are useful in getting rid of that pesky competition.


This is a pretzel town after all...
 
2012-08-30 08:17:52 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Flint Ironstag: Having four times as many dollars is not much when everything costs four times as much.....

If someone quadrupled their money since the 80s they would way way way ahead of the rate of inflation. Their real purchasing power would have increased by a huge amount.


According to some online calculators $1000 put in a savings account in 1980 would be just under $5000 today. With inflation $1000 in 1980 would be worth about $2700 today. So a bit short of doubling their money. Which is far less than "four times" claimed.

At the moment a good online savings account is quoting well under half a percent APR. While the CPI inflation rate is 1.4%.

So savings are losing money big time at the moment.
 
2012-08-30 08:20:59 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Flint Ironstag: Sugar grew up in a council flat.

BTW a person is far more likely to become rich after growing up poor in Australia or England, or Germany, or France, or, well pretty much anywhere but the US.


Maybe it is easier here. Funny since many people here go on about our "class system" and how it keeps people down. I've worked for two Asian (India) owned businesses started by immigrants who created multi million pound businesses.
 
2012-08-30 08:30:27 PM  

Jon Snow: Flint Ironstag: much the same as the Australians this article is talking about then

The same safety net for Australians that this Jabba the Hut who was born into a fortune is actively trying gut? Yes. Riddle me this, Donald Trump- do Australians enjoy greater or lesser odds of being wealthy than children born in developing world slums?

Flint Ironstag: If you're trying to claim he was in any way "privileged" then you're way off.

You apparently have no farking idea what a lack of privilege really is.

Flint Ironstag: How about this Indian woman, from the Untouchable caste, who made her fortune?

Do you have a hard time discriminating between "Ain't too many" and zero? Because it sounds like you do. $112 million dollars does not make you Alan farking Sugar, either. You're only off by an order of magnitude, but hey, I guess that's good enough, huh?


Since many people here are saying that once you have a hundred million then turning that into a billion is easy then what's the problem?

And she was just the first Google result. Are you suggesting there are no others? At all? No Korean millionaires? No Chinese? No Taiwanese? No Pakistani?
 
2012-08-30 08:31:21 PM  

Flint Ironstag: impaler: Flint Ironstag: Way to miss the point. Why would any of them take the risk if you're going to tell them they don't own the business, can't make the decisions and can't leave it to their children?

Who suggested we do that?

The poster I was replying to who said no one should "own" a business or be able to pass it on to their children, it should belong to the employees.


For what it's worth I run into "no one should be allowed to pass a business on to their children" all the time on Fark. It's always an amusing conversation.

Idiotic AND amusing.
 
2012-08-30 08:48:36 PM  

T.M.S.: Flint Ironstag: impaler: Flint Ironstag: Way to miss the point. Why would any of them take the risk if you're going to tell them they don't own the business, can't make the decisions and can't leave it to their children?

Who suggested we do that?

The poster I was replying to who said no one should "own" a business or be able to pass it on to their children, it should belong to the employees.

For what it's worth I run into "no one should be allowed to pass a business on to their children" all the time on Fark. It's always an amusing conversation.

Idiotic AND amusing.


Well it's nearly two AM here so I've had enough anyway.
 
2012-08-30 08:51:51 PM  

seadoo2006: T.M.S.: seadoo2006:

If you make more than $200k, ANYWHERE in the USA, you're rich in my eyes. You are rich enough to do whatever you want.

$200K a year in the US is not enough money to do anything you want. And living in a major city makes it even less so.

Oh, really, what can't you do with $10,000 a month after taxes, even in NYC ...


Pay my Amex bill.


and yes, I lived in NYC and guess what, $3000 gets you a decently nice place, even in Manhattan. I lived in a small one bedroom in mid-town and paid $1650/month.

Congratulations. How many children were you raising in that one bedroom?


You're just an apologist for people making stupid decisions with their money...

Like renting an apartment when you make $200k a year? Stupid things like that?


I guarantee you I could live like a king for $5000/month after taxes in Manhattan.

Again, congratulations. I'm sure your definition of "living like a king" is applicable to every single resident of NYC.
 
2012-08-30 09:07:24 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Flint Ironstag: Having four times as many dollars is not much when everything costs four times as much.....

If someone quadrupled their money since the 80s they would way way way ahead of the rate of inflation. Their real purchasing power would have increased by a huge amount.


Ha! I have managed that. In the 80s I was worth about thirty pounds a year (birthday money sent from the UK by my grandparents). Now, being a smart kid I scammed the exchange rate, I'd watch the markets waiting for the pound to go up or the AU$ to go down. Then BAM I'd be in to the bank getting my free extra $1.23!
So, fast forward to now. I am worth so much more than £300. So, quadrupling £300 is umm £1200. lets say that with the current exchange rate $1841. Now, I also worked as a paperboy for a few months (before realising it was a mugs game and I'd rather be down the creek swimming after school). Lets say I earned about $50 in that time so $1891 quadrupled is $7564.
So, if I check my bank account now and I have more than that I am a frigging financial colossus!

/if only my grandparents had put a few million in each of their cards I too could have parleyed myself into a billionaire.
 
2012-08-30 09:27:30 PM  

Flint Ironstag: what's the problem?


Goalposts keep shifting, don't they? I wasn't the one holding her up as on the equal of Alan Sugar.

Flint Ironstag: Are you suggesting there are no others? At all? No Korean millionaires? No Chinese? No Taiwanese? No Pakistani?


The number of richest people who came from ostensibly humble means in the developing vs. developed world? Not zero. Ain't too many, though. Again, you seem to have a hard time discriminating between "relatively/comparatively rare" and "non-existent".

T.M.S.: Pay my Amex bill.


Can you share with the rest of us untermensch how someone manages to be a wildly successful self-made man? You know, one who didn't live a good chunk of his early years on the tax-payers' dime? Being disqualified from such a life personally, as I benefited from many institutions of the state, I was only asking in the hopes of passing on the wisdom to some uncorrupted youths in highlands of Peru.
 
2012-08-30 09:29:04 PM  
I could work more if I wanted but I'm on salary .The extra goes to somebody else.
 
2012-08-30 10:13:01 PM  

Mugato: Lionel Mandrake: BgJonson79: Lionel Mandrake: BgJonson79: manimal2878: Mugato: Zuckerbergs, Bill Gates,

Not really apples to apples is it?

Neither of these guys had parents on food stamps or parents living pay check to pay check. Zuckerberg and gates both went to exclusive prep schools and had enough wealth to afford to go to Harvard and was raised in an atmosphere where he had the connections to apply. These are people that were born on third base.

Also... they're smart. If you have $1 billion, but an IQ of 85, you're still not going to Harvard.

lolwut?

[t0.gstatic.com image 194x260]

sorry...too easy

He went to Yale :-P

He went to both. MBA at Harvard



Which shows you what that is worth.


Seriously. Harvard is about: 1) Brand name 2) Connections 3) The Best and the Brightest being Taught by Top Notch Instructors.
 
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