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(CBS Los Angeles 2)   Lest they be seen as a soft touch, Los Angeles City Council WILL bill the families of good samaritans electrocuted after crash...but they'll also kick off a fundraiser. Now who doesn't like a bake sale?   (losangeles.cbslocal.com) divider line 45
    More: Followup, Los Angeles City Council, bake sales, Valley Village, city councils, emergency services, fundraisers, fundraising, families  
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5153 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Aug 2012 at 10:33 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-30 09:04:14 AM  
The "Advanced Life Support Services Fee" is $1,373 for patients and "Basic Life Support Fee" is $974. Ambulance transport costs $15.75 per mile.

Hahaha you've got to be kidding me. They've got quite the racket going there. Next time I'll just call a taxi and bleed all over the back seat. Just $2.00 a mile for them and no "fees".
 
2012-08-30 09:50:52 AM  
Damn subbs, that made me chuckle.
 
2012-08-30 10:36:12 AM  
I would have went for fried food that's shockingly good, but that would have been a pun overload.
 
2012-08-30 10:37:44 AM  

Walker: The "Advanced Life Support Services Fee" is $1,373 for patients and "Basic Life Support Fee" is $974. Ambulance transport costs $15.75 per mile.

Hahaha you've got to be kidding me. They've got quite the racket going there. Next time I'll just call a taxi and bleed all over the back seat. Just $2.00 a mile for them and no "fees".


Assuming you 1.- Not bleed to death and 2.- Not get an infection.
 
2012-08-30 10:38:20 AM  
But then again US medical service is kind of expensive, so there.
 
2012-08-30 10:41:11 AM  
I'm shocked.

/Rimshot
 
2012-08-30 10:44:29 AM  
That's Obamacare for you.
 
2012-08-30 10:46:19 AM  
B..but if emergency response was free, it would be socialism...

/ actually, in the Socialist UK, the emergency services will normally bill the insurance company of the dumbass driver who crashed. But I've never heard of billing others who were at the scene.
 
2012-08-30 10:47:17 AM  
The fire department considered waiving the emergency fees for the victim's families, but the city's municipal code doesn't allow that.

If it's a city ordinance, then the charge has to be levied. They can't just ignore the law because they feel like it. The law would need to first be amended or repealed to provide a Good Samaritan exemption.
 
2012-08-30 10:48:52 AM  
No good deed goes unpunished
 
2012-08-30 10:52:05 AM  
Wow, that sucks.

"Hey, look, sorry that your mom died trying to save someone elses life, but we're going to need you to pay for that Ambulance. Better go start some lemonade stands, kiddo."
 
2012-08-30 10:53:02 AM  
The family should claim illegal status, problem solved.
 
2012-08-30 10:54:14 AM  
Sue the driver who caused the wreck to get his insurance to pay for it. He's at fault, he's even admitted that he's at fault. Therefore, the deaths of the good Samaritans are his fault and that's why we have auto insurance.
 
2012-08-30 10:59:37 AM  

Walker: Hahaha you've got to be kidding me. They've got quite the racket going there. Next time I'll just call a taxi and bleed all over the back seat. Just $2.00 a mile for them and no "fees".


Yeah. You're right. All they do is just load you up and take you to the hospital. Just like a Taxi. It's not like they have highly Trained people who went to school for years of their life to learn advanced assessment and treatment skills.

Just hope that laceration that was severe enough for you to call 911 for doesn't cause you to bleed out, or go into decompensated shock in that taxi ride. I'm sure the guy with the "For Hire" endorsement can help you.

/or are you actually suggesting you'd load up a cardiac arrest from electrocution in a taxi and drive them somewhere, and do a better job than an ambulance?
 
2012-08-30 11:03:05 AM  

opiumpoopy: B..but if emergency response was free, it would be socialism...

/ actually, in the Socialist UK, the emergency services will normally bill the insurance company of the dumbass driver who crashed. But I've never heard of billing others who were at the scene.


Most people, like myself, in the United States would love to take on the UK or Canadian model of Federalized, or State-level EMS agencies having control at the local level, and the use of a single payor source for most patients.

The problem is it's not going to happen in my life time. EMS is an attractive target for Fire Departments to shore up their budget and provide justification to just why they have a pumper crew drawing 60k a year to set in a firehouse and run a few Fire calls per year, and the medicare/medicaid system is too broken to support most private providers.

We still treat people regardless of their ability to pay later, and their ability to pay doesn't make a difference to me, or 99.9% of Street Providers.
 
2012-08-30 11:03:54 AM  

BronyMedic: Walker: Hahaha you've got to be kidding me. They've got quite the racket going there. Next time I'll just call a taxi and bleed all over the back seat. Just $2.00 a mile for them and no "fees".

Yeah. You're right. All they do is just load you up and take you to the hospital. Just like a Taxi. It's not like they have highly Trained people who went to school for years of their life to learn advanced assessment and treatment skills.

Just hope that laceration that was severe enough for you to call 911 for doesn't cause you to bleed out, or go into decompensated shock in that taxi ride. I'm sure the guy with the "For Hire" endorsement can help you.

/or are you actually suggesting you'd load up a cardiac arrest from electrocution in a taxi and drive them somewhere, and do a better job than an ambulance?


You're right, but just for the sake of of reality I would like to point out that in many states you can be an EMT with only months of training. They do an important job but let's not pretend they're MDs or something.
 
2012-08-30 11:06:45 AM  

BronyMedic: Walker: Hahaha you've got to be kidding me. They've got quite the racket going there. Next time I'll just call a taxi and bleed all over the back seat. Just $2.00 a mile for them and no "fees".

Yeah. You're right. All they do is just load you up and take you to the hospital. Just like a Taxi. It's not like they have highly Trained people who went to school for years of their life to learn advanced assessment and treatment skills.

Just hope that laceration that was severe enough for you to call 911 for doesn't cause you to bleed out, or go into decompensated shock in that taxi ride. I'm sure the guy with the "For Hire" endorsement can help you.

/or are you actually suggesting you'd load up a cardiac arrest from electrocution in a taxi and drive them somewhere, and do a better job than an ambulance?


That's not the reason you call for an ambulance in LA. This is why you call for an ambulance in LA. Taxi or not, you're going to die in the emergency waiting room unless you come through the ambulance only entrance.
 
2012-08-30 11:07:29 AM  

HawkEyes: You're right, but just for the sake of of reality I would like to point out that in many states you can be an EMT with only months of training. They do an important job but let's not pretend they're MDs or something.


Yes. And that's farking terrifying that someone can be an EMT-Basic with two months of formal training. Thank certain unions, and the vollys for keeping it that dumbed down. Thanks to the new National Standards for EMTs and Paramedics, that's changing. We're still not as trained as Canada or the UK, for example, where Paramedics are a four year degree for entry, and what we consider an "EMT" is an associates.

They aren't MDs. No one would reasonable would make that claim. But the majority of people out there are highly trained, and bring advanced procedures, skills, and experience to bedside of people who truly need emergency care.

Comparing an EMT to a Taxi Driver is just as offensive as comparing a nurse to a janitor.
 
2012-08-30 11:10:14 AM  

MyNameIsMofuga: That's Obamacare for you.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-08-30 11:14:48 AM  
If they were to auction off body parts of the jokers who made up that law, that'd bring in a little.
 
2012-08-30 11:24:04 AM  

BronyMedic: HawkEyes: You're right, but just for the sake of of reality I would like to point out that in many states you can be an EMT with only months of training. They do an important job but let's not pretend they're MDs or something.

Yes. And that's farking terrifying that someone can be an EMT-Basic with two months of formal training. Thank certain unions, and the vollys for keeping it that dumbed down. Thanks to the new National Standards for EMTs and Paramedics, that's changing. We're still not as trained as Canada or the UK, for example, where Paramedics are a four year degree for entry, and what we consider an "EMT" is an associates.

They aren't MDs. No one would reasonable would make that claim. But the majority of people out there are highly trained, and bring advanced procedures, skills, and experience to bedside of people who truly need emergency care.

Comparing an EMT to a Taxi Driver is just as offensive as comparing a nurse to a janitor.


Pfft, I'll give the patient some leeches and a get well card, then cut off whatever part hurts. Problem solved. I've played "Operation" enough to know what to do.

/Has some basic medical training
//Respects the bloody hell (pun not intended) out of anyone who does it.
 
2012-08-30 11:34:52 AM  
All you non-Americans might be wondering right now, "What could be more American than sending a bill to a victims surviving relatives for life support you administered?"

The "Advanced Life Support Services Fee" is $1,373 for patients and "Basic Life Support Fee" is $974.

Why Platinum Life Support ServicesTM of course! When it comes to your loved ones, don't settle for less. Platinum Life Support ServicesTM ensures your loved ones will treated with the care they deserve. Sign up today! Much like your loved ones, these deals won't be around forever!
 
2012-08-30 11:42:33 AM  

hungryhungryhorus: All you non-Americans might be wondering right now, "What could be more American than sending a bill to a victims surviving relatives for life support you administered?"

The "Advanced Life Support Services Fee" is $1,373 for patients and "Basic Life Support Fee" is $974.

Why Platinum Life Support ServicesTM of course! When it comes to your loved ones, don't settle for less. Platinum Life Support ServicesTM ensures your loved ones will treated with the care they deserve. Sign up today! Much like your loved ones, these deals won't be around forever!


What does Basic Life Support and Advanced Life Support actually mean?

Basic Life Support is the provision of prehospital or transport emergency care by a provider trained to the National Standards of the EMT-Basic or EMT-Intermediate/85 level of care. The provider of care to the patient, or both crew members, are trained to this level, and do not provide what would be called "advanced" care in the United States. (Very few drugs, no IV access, no advanced airway or invasive procedures).

Advanced Life Support is the provision of Prehospital or Transport emergency care by a provider or providers trained to the National Standards of an EMT-Paramedic. ALS-1/Emergency is charged when the medical event is determined to require a "Lights and Sirens", or expedited emergency response, and ALS services - including an assessment, are provided. ALS-2 is charged when a Paramedic administered two or more different drugs not defined as "BLS" level medication, at different times, during the period of of the care encounter; OR - the Paramedic performs advanced invasive skils, like resuscitation, or advanced airway placement.

Specialty or Critical Care Transport is the charge level that is billed to a patient when that patient requires services that are beyond the scope of the national skills curriculum of an EMT-Paramedic. These calls, because of the severity of the patient's condition, or because of special attachments (IABP, Transport Ventilator, advanced drug therapies), require either a Critical Care Paramedic, or a nurse, Respiratory Therapist, or MD, to respond with the crew.

/know you were being snarky, but it's still confusing terminology.
 
2012-08-30 11:46:57 AM  

Walker: The "Advanced Life Support Services Fee" is $1,373 for patients and "Basic Life Support Fee" is $974. Ambulance transport costs $15.75 per mile.

Hahaha you've got to be kidding me. They've got quite the racket going there. Next time I'll just call a taxi and bleed all over the back seat. Just $2.00 a mile for them and no "fees".


Last time I had a ~20mi ambulance ride, it only cost me $44.00. Tax included. Cheaper than a cab ride!
Of course, I couldn't tip the driver because I was unconscious at the time.
/Canada.
 
2012-08-30 11:48:01 AM  
Thanks for the chuckle subby. My breakfast is now on my keyboard.
 
2012-08-30 11:52:59 AM  
If the two samaritans were transported to the hospital, then medicare and medicaid rules may be preventing the locality from waiving the bills. I do not know the specifics of LA's billing policy. It does seem like a high price but the costs in LA are probably fairly high. I read an article in JEMS about Georgia counties raising ambulance fees to the same levels as those listed for LA. I can tell you these fees are about double the fees charged in central Virginia. Like other health care costs, anbulance fees are driven in part by what insurance companies will pay.
 
2012-08-30 11:56:47 AM  
ambulance fees.

/sorry,
 
2012-08-30 12:12:39 PM  
We're not very far away from having to submit credit cards before life saving services are rendered.

An employee of mine was charged by Kaiser for an out of service plan emergency room visit for her son. It didn't matter to them that her son died in the ambulance on the way, Kaiser claimed the kid should have told the driver to take him to Kaiser instead of the nearest hospital. It took a threat of taking the story to the media to get the bill dropped.
 
2012-08-30 12:13:04 PM  

BronyMedic: hungryhungryhorus: All you non-Americans might be wondering right now, "What could be more American than sending a bill to a victims surviving relatives for life support you administered?"

The "Advanced Life Support Services Fee" is $1,373 for patients and "Basic Life Support Fee" is $974.

Why Platinum Life Support ServicesTM of course! When it comes to your loved ones, don't settle for less. Platinum Life Support ServicesTM ensures your loved ones will treated with the care they deserve. Sign up today! Much like your loved ones, these deals won't be around forever!

What does Basic Life Support and Advanced Life Support actually mean?

Basic Life Support is the provision of prehospital or transport emergency care by a provider trained to the National Standards of the EMT-Basic or EMT-Intermediate/85 level of care. The provider of care to the patient, or both crew members, are trained to this level, and do not provide what would be called "advanced" care in the United States. (Very few drugs, no IV access, no advanced airway or invasive procedures).

Advanced Life Support is the provision of Prehospital or Transport emergency care by a provider or providers trained to the National Standards of an EMT-Paramedic. ALS-1/Emergency is charged when the medical event is determined to require a "Lights and Sirens", or expedited emergency response, and ALS services - including an assessment, are provided. ALS-2 is charged when a Paramedic administered two or more different drugs not defined as "BLS" level medication, at different times, during the period of of the care encounter; OR - the Paramedic performs advanced invasive skils, like resuscitation, or advanced airway placement.

Specialty or Critical Care Transport is the charge level that is billed to a patient when that patient requires services that are beyond the scope of the national skills curriculum of an EMT-Paramedic. These calls, because of the severity of the patient's condition, or because of special attachm ...


Is this so that paramedics can triage, sending their less trained/experienced EMTs and more lightly-equipped ambulances out for cases that aren't as critical while saving the more expert training and advanced equipment for the bleeding-out types?

Seems reasonable to me. The fee thing in TFA is a ridiculous failure of bureaucracy, but from the looks of it even the bureaucrats realize that. The fundraiser idea really isn't that bad for the immediate problem, but the real problem is that their fee policy was poorly crafted.
 
2012-08-30 12:14:50 PM  
She must be involved in this somehow...

i16.photobucket.com
 
2012-08-30 12:16:30 PM  

blahpers: Is this so that paramedics can triage, sending their less trained/experienced EMTs and more lightly-equipped ambulances out for cases that aren't as critical while saving the more expert training and advanced equipment for the bleeding-out types?


It's more so that ambulance organizations that do not perform responses that require advanced providers - like the ones who do dialysis runs, basic interfacility transfers, and nursing home runs, and the volunteer ambulance services which cannot afford to pay for Paramedics or their training, can participate in Medicare and Medicaid and bill for their services.

There are places out there that run EMT-EMT units in 911 settings because they can't get a Paramedic to staff the unit, or because they can't afford them.
 
2012-08-30 12:27:25 PM  

Walker: The "Advanced Life Support Services Fee" is $1,373 for patients and "Basic Life Support Fee" is $974. Ambulance transport costs $15.75 per mile.

Hahaha you've got to be kidding me. They've got quite the racket going there. Next time I'll just call a taxi and bleed all over the back seat. Just $2.00 a mile for them and no "fees".


Some ambulance services that I have worked with(we sell software to first responders) will subtly discourage non-emergent cases from being transported to avoid them being billed(though this has to be done very carefully). If you cut yourself but didn't cut an artery, or stepped on a nail, just drive yourself to an emergent care clinic.

ALS is really for people who are in critical condition, where they may need things like airway management or specific drugs. It requires, I believe, at least one paramedic and a rig with specific equipment. It isn't cheap, by any means.

If you ever get transported by EMS, make sure that you list your chief complaint as something like 'tightness in chest' or 'chest pains' in order to make sure that it will be covered by insurance.
 
2012-08-30 12:28:39 PM  

HawkEyes: BronyMedic: Walker: Hahaha you've got to be kidding me. They've got quite the racket going there. Next time I'll just call a taxi and bleed all over the back seat. Just $2.00 a mile for them and no "fees".

Yeah. You're right. All they do is just load you up and take you to the hospital. Just like a Taxi. It's not like they have highly Trained people who went to school for years of their life to learn advanced assessment and treatment skills.

Just hope that laceration that was severe enough for you to call 911 for doesn't cause you to bleed out, or go into decompensated shock in that taxi ride. I'm sure the guy with the "For Hire" endorsement can help you.

/or are you actually suggesting you'd load up a cardiac arrest from electrocution in a taxi and drive them somewhere, and do a better job than an ambulance?

You're right, but just for the sake of of reality I would like to point out that in many states you can be an EMT with only months of training. They do an important job but let's not pretend they're MDs or something.


ALS requires a paramedic, not an EMT.
 
2012-08-30 12:28:58 PM  

BronyMedic: blahpers: Is this so that paramedics can triage, sending their less trained/experienced EMTs and more lightly-equipped ambulances out for cases that aren't as critical while saving the more expert training and advanced equipment for the bleeding-out types?

It's more so that ambulance organizations that do not perform responses that require advanced providers - like the ones who do dialysis runs, basic interfacility transfers, and nursing home runs, and the volunteer ambulance services which cannot afford to pay for Paramedics or their training, can participate in Medicare and Medicaid and bill for their services.

There are places out there that run EMT-EMT units in 911 settings because they can't get a Paramedic to staff the unit, or because they can't afford them.


*sigh* Our country has serious issues. We shouldn't even need volunteer ambulance services. Or volunteer firefighters. Or de facto volunteer police officers.
 
2012-08-30 12:32:19 PM  

blahpers: BronyMedic: blahpers: Is this so that paramedics can triage, sending their less trained/experienced EMTs and more lightly-equipped ambulances out for cases that aren't as critical while saving the more expert training and advanced equipment for the bleeding-out types?

It's more so that ambulance organizations that do not perform responses that require advanced providers - like the ones who do dialysis runs, basic interfacility transfers, and nursing home runs, and the volunteer ambulance services which cannot afford to pay for Paramedics or their training, can participate in Medicare and Medicaid and bill for their services.

There are places out there that run EMT-EMT units in 911 settings because they can't get a Paramedic to staff the unit, or because they can't afford them.

*sigh* Our country has serious issues. We shouldn't even need volunteer ambulance services. Or volunteer firefighters. Or de facto volunteer police officers.


Volunteer departments function in areas that are rural or semi-rural. Often times the areas are unincorporated. There is not enough population density to justify having an ALS unit fully staffed and ready to go (ditto for trucks and engines). Our country does indeed have issues, but using volunteer fire and rescue is not one of them.
 
2012-08-30 01:00:22 PM  

blahpers: MyNameIsMofuga: That's Obamacare for you.

[i.imgur.com image 456x297]


that pic made me spit out my beverage!
 
2012-08-30 01:02:14 PM  

MycroftHolmes: blahpers: BronyMedic: blahpers: Is this so that paramedics can triage, sending their less trained/experienced EMTs and more lightly-equipped ambulances out for cases that aren't as critical while saving the more expert training and advanced equipment for the bleeding-out types?

It's more so that ambulance organizations that do not perform responses that require advanced providers - like the ones who do dialysis runs, basic interfacility transfers, and nursing home runs, and the volunteer ambulance services which cannot afford to pay for Paramedics or their training, can participate in Medicare and Medicaid and bill for their services.

There are places out there that run EMT-EMT units in 911 settings because they can't get a Paramedic to staff the unit, or because they can't afford them.

*sigh* Our country has serious issues. We shouldn't even need volunteer ambulance services. Or volunteer firefighters. Or de facto volunteer police officers.

Volunteer departments function in areas that are rural or semi-rural. Often times the areas are unincorporated. There is not enough population density to justify having an ALS unit fully staffed and ready to go (ditto for trucks and engines). Our country does indeed have issues, but using volunteer fire and rescue is not one of them.


The fact that volunteer services are the best solution given our current issues does not negate the fact that there are, in fact, issues. What we don't have are solutions. So we concentrate on problems that are easier to solve. But we'd be fools to forget a problem entirely just because we cannot yet solve it.

/steps off the "Captain Obvious"-brand soapbox
 
2012-08-30 01:02:55 PM  

ltdanman44: blahpers: MyNameIsMofuga: That's Obamacare for you.

[i.imgur.com image 456x297]

that pic made me spit out my beverage!


An oldie nowadays, but sometimes nothing else fits quite like it. : )
 
2012-08-30 01:17:07 PM  

Walker: The "Advanced Life Support Services Fee" is $1,373 for patients and "Basic Life Support Fee" is $974. Ambulance transport costs $15.75 per mile.

Hahaha you've got to be kidding me. They've got quite the racket going there. Next time I'll just call a taxi and bleed all over the back seat. Just $2.00 a mile for them and no "fees".


When I was a medic intern, I was at an ER when a car screeched up and the driver & passenger leaped out screaming their buddy was stabbed and dying in the back seat. Two or three of us opened the doors and found a guy who had bled out all over the back seat. He was already dead, and probably had been for a while; although the doctors worked him up anyway.

The guy had been stabbed multiple times, but his friends either didn't want to wait or thought they could get him there sooner. So they just loaded him up and drove off. Not only did the inside of the car look like an abattoir (and probably the car had to be gutted) the friends got to live the rest of their lives with the memory of their friend dying in the back seat.

There are other reasons besides convenience you might want to pay for the ambulance, folks.
 
2012-08-30 01:27:50 PM  

BronyMedic: These calls, because of the severity of the patient's condition, or because of special attachm ...


Excellent summary Brony. Unfortunately in LA, all ambulances are private, and all paramedics are coming from the FD. And they don't dispatch BLS only ambulance to probable minor calls (we did that in my jurisdiction during the mid/late 90s) and have the crew or the dispatcher upgrade the call if necessary.

Example: Childbirth: BLS only
Baby born, not breathing: ALS

Broken ankle: BLS only
Broken ankle from being hit by a car: ALS (although it can be downgraded if the patient is stable enough to not need IVs enroute)

/former CCEMT-P
 
2012-08-30 02:05:18 PM  

blahpers: MycroftHolmes: blahpers: BronyMedic: blahpers: Is this so that paramedics can triage, sending their less trained/experienced EMTs and more lightly-equipped ambulances out for cases that aren't as critical while saving the more expert training and advanced equipment for the bleeding-out types?

It's more so that ambulance organizations that do not perform responses that require advanced providers - like the ones who do dialysis runs, basic interfacility transfers, and nursing home runs, and the volunteer ambulance services which cannot afford to pay for Paramedics or their training, can participate in Medicare and Medicaid and bill for their services.

There are places out there that run EMT-EMT units in 911 settings because they can't get a Paramedic to staff the unit, or because they can't afford them.

*sigh* Our country has serious issues. We shouldn't even need volunteer ambulance services. Or volunteer firefighters. Or de facto volunteer police officers.

Volunteer departments function in areas that are rural or semi-rural. Often times the areas are unincorporated. There is not enough population density to justify having an ALS unit fully staffed and ready to go (ditto for trucks and engines). Our country does indeed have issues, but using volunteer fire and rescue is not one of them.

The fact that volunteer services are the best solution given our current issues does not negate the fact that there are, in fact, issues. What we don't have are solutions. So we concentrate on problems that are easier to solve. But we'd be fools to forget a problem entirely just because we cannot yet solve it.

/steps off the "Captain Obvious"-brand soapbox


Well sure, in a perfect world we could give everyone the kind of medical assistance (including emergency/trauma care) they need and at no cost or minimal cost to the victim, while still paying professionals the kind of money they deserve to get for pulling you out of your car after it was hit by a semi. But there's a reason we have these issues, many of which boil down to people wanting to have everything and pay for nothing.
 
2012-08-30 02:58:22 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Well sure, in a perfect world we could give everyone the kind of medical assistance (including emergency/trauma care) they need and at no cost or minimal cost to the victim, while still paying professionals the kind of money they deserve to get for pulling you out of your car after it was hit by a semi. But there's a reason we have these issues, many of which boil down to people wanting to have everything and pay for nothing.


I think we could find a solution in this imperfect world, but it won't involve paying for nothing, of course. For what it's worth, if all it took was a tax increase, I'd be in in a heartbeat. But I understand that this makes me a dirty socialist, so it probably isn't worth much.
 
2012-08-30 03:56:45 PM  

blahpers: The fact that volunteer services are the best solution given our current issues does not negate the fact that there are, in fact, issues. What we don't have are solutions. So we concentrate on problems that are easier to solve. But we'd be fools to forget a problem entirely just because we cannot yet solve it.

/steps off the "Captain Obvious"-brand soapbox


I am not sure what 'issues' you are talking about. In low population density, non-incorporated areas, it simply is not feasible to have a fully staffed ALS EMS unit standing by. If the 'issue' you are talking about is the fact that resources are not infinite, then yes, we have issues. EMS is expensive, and requires a good tax base or heavily utilization to defray the cost. What problem is that you think there is that volunteer fire departments are a symptom of?
 
2012-08-30 07:34:29 PM  

Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: The fire department considered waiving the emergency fees for the victim's families, but the city's municipal code doesn't allow that.

If it's a city ordinance, then the charge has to be levied. They can't just ignore the law because they feel like it. The law would need to first be amended or repealed to provide a Good Samaritan exemption.


But I am not sure why they are billing the families? Shouldn't they be billing the victims? Dead people turn into estates after they die.

I know that if I received a bill because some cousin somewhere incurred a debt due to an ambulance ride, it would go unpaid.
 
2012-08-30 07:38:59 PM  

blahpers: Gyrfalcon: Well sure, in a perfect world we could give everyone the kind of medical assistance (including emergency/trauma care) they need and at no cost or minimal cost to the victim, while still paying professionals the kind of money they deserve to get for pulling you out of your car after it was hit by a semi. But there's a reason we have these issues, many of which boil down to people wanting to have everything and pay for nothing.

I think we could find a solution in this imperfect world, but it won't involve paying for nothing, of course. For what it's worth, if all it took was a tax increase, I'd be in in a heartbeat. But I understand that this makes me a dirty socialist, so it probably isn't worth much.


No, clearly we are both evil socialist-commie-money hating scum, and for that we should suffer terribly.
 
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