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(Huffington Post)   Influential Catholic Priest: "Suppose you have a man having a nervous breakdown, and a youngster comes after him. A lot of the cases, the youngster - 14, 16, 18 - is the seducer"   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 277
    More: Sick, Father Benedict Groeschel, Catholic priest, sex crimes, National Catholic Register, Archdiocese of Philadelphia, Archdiocese of New York  
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9798 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Aug 2012 at 12:18 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-08-30 01:24:52 PM

blahpers: The One True TheDavid:
[...]

I didn't know Sandusky was a Catholic priest, which is what the article was about, but somehow you tracked down his ordination papers.

The same article also features him defending (well, at least sympathizing with) Sandusky. It isn't exactly a non sequitur to bring him up.


Ah. Well. I've stood corrected so many times my arches have fallen.
 
2012-08-30 01:32:25 PM

Rain Fall: Why the hell should Christians have to say: This guy disgusts me. ...


You're right. Christians shouldn't need to tell anyone that they think molesting a child is bad. Of course they think that. And anyone here trying to characterize all Catholics or all Christians or (and this would make you a crazy person) all religious folks as child molesters is way off base.

What Catholics need to do is tell their church leaders that they think molesting a child is bad. Because apparently the folks at the top need reminding. So yes, I expect them to speak out, and speak out loudly. Just not here.
 
2012-08-30 01:33:40 PM
You guys do realize that in all likelihood the actual 'seduction' cases were probably less than five total, right?
 
2012-08-30 01:38:44 PM
I May Be Crazy But...:

[T]he anger is there because the Catholic hierarchy has systematically protected and enabled priests who molest children. I'd be surprised if that doesn't make you a little angry as well. While I don't agree with the folks suggesting some pretty heinous stuff themselves, their anger is not misplaced.

Agreed.

As for the rest, the only way to resolve this issue is to somehow breed people who are incapable of being aroused by anyone under whatever the legal age is in any given locality. We could concentrate on teaching everybody to be in full control of their sexuality, but then what would the entertainment industry do?

It's hard for me to sympathize with either "side" of this issue these days, for the same reason it's getting harder to sympathize with anybody about anything "controversial": the biggest sinners are those who throw the most stones, and not stoning anybody has become the greatest evil. All the outrage is getting on my nerves so badly that I'm on the verge of ignoring everything that Americans are supposed to find important. (Even Lindsay Lohan.)
 
2012-08-30 01:38:55 PM

I May Be Crazy But...: As for the "open-mindedness, reluctance to condemn, objectivity, forgoing of moral absolutes," fark it. When the problem is a reluctance to punish child molesters, what is needed is MORE condemnation.


The odd part is that the fire-and-brimstone crowd seem ready to condemn just about everything (and everyone) else, but not this. And this is of course, very obviously and transparently because it'd look bad for "their team".

They'll try to misdirect ("It's not pedophilia, is' homosexuality- which is wrong!")

They'll suggest it's not in line with the doctrine of Forgiveness ("But if your practicing gayness, you're totally going to hell.")

And here we see they'll have no problem blaming the victim (like most rapists).


For a "moral authority" they'll sure spend a lot of time avoiding responsibility in this matter, won't they?


I was raised Catholic, don't get me wrong. I quit, but I won't deny that some of the lessons I brought out of it were worth learning (and still are). And that's precisely why I can't reconcile this kind of behavior with any sort of institution that prides itself on being morally forthright.
 
2012-08-30 01:59:29 PM
Anything less than unqualified condemnation of child molestation coming from the Catholic Church is unacceptable.
 
2012-08-30 02:27:10 PM
Sounds like a nambla spokesperson. What a sick fark. Hopefully law enforcement are investigating this guy.
 
2012-08-30 02:44:18 PM

The One True TheDavid: blahpers: The One True TheDavid:
[...]

I didn't know Sandusky was a Catholic priest, which is what the article was about, but somehow you tracked down his ordination papers.

The same article also features him defending (well, at least sympathizing with) Sandusky. It isn't exactly a non sequitur to bring him up.

Ah. Well. I've stood corrected so many times my arches have fallen.


Just means that you still care enough to discuss things instead of giving in to apathy. : D
 
2012-08-30 02:46:36 PM

PsiChick: You guys do realize that in all likelihood the actual 'seduction' cases were probably less than five total, right?


It really doesn't matter. It isn't as if "seduction" is a legitimate defense of, well, anything. You don't lose the ability to discern right from wrong just because someone gave you a stiffy.
 
2012-08-30 02:55:38 PM

blahpers: The One True TheDavid:

Ah. Well. I've stood corrected so many times my arches have fallen.

Just means that you still care enough to discuss things instead of giving in to apathy. : D


Stop that. That's not fair.
 
2012-08-30 02:55:49 PM

The One True TheDavid: I May Be Crazy But...:

[T]he anger is there because the Catholic hierarchy has systematically protected and enabled priests who molest children. I'd be surprised if that doesn't make you a little angry as well. While I don't agree with the folks suggesting some pretty heinous stuff themselves, their anger is not misplaced.

Agreed.

As for the rest, the only way to resolve this issue is to somehow breed people who are incapable of being aroused by anyone under whatever the legal age is in any given locality. We could concentrate on teaching everybody to be in full control of their sexuality, but then what would the entertainment industry do?

It's hard for me to sympathize with either "side" of this issue these days, for the same reason it's getting harder to sympathize with anybody about anything "controversial": the biggest sinners are those who throw the most stones, and not stoning anybody has become the greatest evil. All the outrage is getting on my nerves so badly that I'm on the verge of ignoring everything that Americans are supposed to find important. (Even Lindsay Lohan.)


Oh no! The apathy beast is rearing its head! Run! ("Eh, why bother?")

I really don't think the only way to resolve the issue of priests molesting children is to breed priests that can't be aroused by children. It might help if the priesthood's ridiculous restrictions on sexuality were lifted. It would help also if, as said before, the priesthood didn't actively work to conceal and protect offenders from secular authority. The Catholic deity may forgive, but I know of few Catholic theologians who would argue that said deity's forgiveness justifiably render's a person immune to the earthly consequences of their actions.

Honestly, the interviewee comes off as pretty borked in the head. Just like a lifetime of physical training can produce amazing feats, a lifetime of indoctrination can produce an amazing ability to rationalize away problems that reflect poorly on the indoctrinating organization.
 
2012-08-30 02:55:57 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: St_Francis_P: The My Little Pony Killer: Any Fark Christians here to speak out against this guy? No?

Would you settle for an agnostic saint?

Good enough for me. I'm just noting that this is a really good thread for the usual "I'm a Christian, but this guy totally disgusts me" crowd to make an appearance.


I'm a Christian, but this guy totally disgusts me. 

There ya go.
 
2012-08-30 02:56:53 PM

The One True TheDavid: blahpers: The One True TheDavid:

Ah. Well. I've stood corrected so many times my arches have fallen.

Just means that you still care enough to discuss things instead of giving in to apathy. : D

Stop that. That's not fair.


Hey, didn't mean anything by it. Discussion is a good thing!
 
2012-08-30 02:59:04 PM
blahpers:

You don't lose the ability to discern right from wrong just because someone gave you a stiffy.

Or you shouldn't anyway, but some guys are 12 forever.
 
2012-08-30 02:59:44 PM

blahpers: It isn't as if "seduction" is a legitimate defense of, well, anything.


Legitimate? No. Common? Yes. Very yes.
 
2012-08-30 03:25:32 PM

blahpers: PsiChick: You guys do realize that in all likelihood the actual 'seduction' cases were probably less than five total, right?

It really doesn't matter. It isn't as if "seduction" is a legitimate defense of, well, anything. You don't lose the ability to discern right from wrong just because someone gave you a stiffy.


Well, in this case, it's also a victim-blaming lie, which moves it into 'disgusting' territory. I agree with what you're saying; I'm just saying that it's a very subtle way of calling the victims sluts. Obviously, that's highly disgusting.
 
2012-08-30 03:37:54 PM

PsiChick: Well, in this case, it's also a victim-blaming lie, which moves it into 'disgusting' territory. I agree with what you're saying; I'm just saying that it's a very subtle way of calling the victims sluts. Obviously, that's highly disgusting.


It's sort of the IRL version of the old joke:

Q: What's the #1 cause of Pedophilia?\

A: Sexy children.
 
2012-08-30 04:35:40 PM
blahpers replied:

I really don't think the only way to resolve the issue of priests molesting children is to breed priests that can't be aroused by children.

Then they should develop a way to weed them out. Including technological means, like those machines that supposedly show the parts of the brain that light up when a person lies or sees something sexy or whatever.


It might help if the priesthood's ridiculous restrictions on sexuality were lifted.

Except the one on molesting prepubescent kids, of course.


It would help also if, as said before, the priesthood didn't actively work to conceal and protect offenders from secular authority.

But what other perks are there to the priesthood these days? You don't seriously think the the religious fervor and moral purity of the clergy has ever had a lot to do with the survival of any church, do you? Muhammad got first pick of the loot and was specifically exempted from the limits on the number and age of wives; apparently having his family and friends decide he's too annoying to live wasn't its own reward, for him anyway.

As far as the "Western" Christian churches go, it's been downhill for them since the laity learned to read and count.

Teaching people to think critically and question authority would be good, except there are too many vested interests with sensitve feet involved for that to get very far.

The more I think on it the more convinced I become that it's largely a matter of scale: drastically reduce the human population and you drastically reduce its "foibles."
 
2012-08-30 05:01:15 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Any Fark Christians here to speak out against this guy? No?


I'm not a Catholic and not really affected one way or the other if Benedict leaves. I'd rather he retire and cede his funny hat.
 
2012-08-30 07:11:15 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Teens are aggressors. That's fact.
It's up to adults to be adults and nip that shiat in the bud instead of succumbing.
That's also fact, and more important.


Hey, we used to stone people for sodomy, but NOOOOO, people have to be all "progressive" these days, and look where that's gotten us.
 
2012-08-30 07:30:43 PM
For those of you saying that Christians shouldn't have to condemn this guy, please remember that the next time a Muslim blows up a building, mmmkay?
 
2012-08-30 08:03:49 PM

MeanJean: For those of you saying that Christians shouldn't have to condemn this guy, please remember that the next time a Muslim blows up a building, mmmkay?


You're aware that at least a few of us are neither muslim OR christian, right? I can remember not to treat two religions I have no association with roughly the same without being reminded.

As an aside, what's the right adjective for a person who is a Muslim? Is it muslim? Somehow I've managed to never learn this.
 
2012-08-30 08:21:35 PM

The One True TheDavid: Abox:

I've always said closet gays never know what's going to give them away; same goes for closet pedophiles apparently. 


Pedophilia:

pedophilia (usually uncountable; plural pedophilias)

Noun:

1. Sexual or erotic feelings or desires directed by adults and late adolescents towards children; particularly, in psychiatry, a paraphilia consisting of a primary adult sexual attraction to prepubescent children. [from 20th c.]

2. Sexual acts committed by adults with prepubescent children.


Puberty:

Noun

puberty (uncountable)

1. the age at which a person is first capable of sexual reproduction


In this case it's the definition is easy to prove: have the "14, 16, 18" year old guy jerk off into a beaker, then put some of the ejaculate under a microscope and look for "tadpoles." If there are sperm swimming around then the priest cannot engage in pedophilia with him. (Unless the priest is the prepube, but I think canon law rules that out in the first place.)

It's easy to know what you're talking about once you know what the words you use mean.




Like I said...


/but valid point!
 
2012-08-30 10:25:20 PM

grinnel: I don't know if it acceptable to plug a blog on fark, but....

the majority of a/theist tennis matches on Fark all have one thing in common and that is the old testament. The frustration i get from reading this fallacious banter has bothered me so much, I have actually put down my fly rod and biatched to nobody on the intertubes. So far, I have only attacked one side; there is more to come. Link


There is only one side if that side is raping children.

You might want to save the well reasoned apologia for other topics.

Right now the only answer that is right is the answer of moral vengeance against pedo priests and their apologists.
 
2012-08-31 05:30:47 AM
Ilmarinen - I may be Catholic, but I am in no way affiliated with the Catholic Church, in fact I am proud to say that I was almost excommunicated at 18 for telling a damn nun to go and fu(k herself. The US is also a hierarchical place. By electing people who proceed to bumb, torture and murder, the American people are giving their tacid agreement that it is okay to do these things in their name, yet, I do not think all 300 million of them should apologise, because clearly not all agree with the barbarism. My statement stands, unless somehow a Catholic is giving their approval, or otherwise encouraging or helping cover up the atrocities committed in the name of the Catholic church, then it should not be a given that Catholics support the nonsense. Many people consider themselves devoutly Catholic, but do not give a red cent to the church and would be the first in live to cock-punch a molester priest.

I May Be Crazy But... - Nice sentiments, but the Catholic Church does not listen to Catholics.

I disapprove or organised religion. Faith is one thing, whatever relationship someone has between whatever version of God and themselves they have is cool. Religion is corrupt bullshiat, fairytales and corruption inducing rot that is used to divide and conquer us.
 
2012-08-31 11:02:41 PM
"Influential Catholic Priest: "Suppose you have a man having a nervous breakdown, and a youngster comes after him. A lot of the cases, the youngster - 14, 16, 18 - is the seducer"
Yep, because if there is one thing that turns the young guys on it's the prospect of man-love with a fat, sweaty middle-aged guy with a set of moobs. It must be the robes that turns those young guys into absolute sluts.
 
2012-09-01 04:44:56 PM

dbubb: Also, I believe that religion has played a very strong role in the development of science, contrary to what most people think/believe.


This has some similarity to saying the Catholic church has played a very strong role in the development of Protestant philosophy.

grinnel: I don't know if it acceptable to plug a blog on fark, but....


It's acceptable, but the comment of "Your Blog Sucks" is an obligatory response.

Arumat: If I'm walking along, and see someone waving a sign that says "1+2=4" and advocating that the law should reflect their belief, am I not morally obligated to show them that they are wrong?


amultiverse.com


cryinoutloud: "Correcting falsehood" might sound all noble to you, but do you really care about what those losers believe?


imgs.xkcd.com


The impact is reduced but not eliminated for individual voters.

The One True TheDavid: And you're a genius too: I didn't know Sandusky was a Catholic priest, which is what the article was about, but somehow you tracked down his ordination papers.

blahpers: The same article also features him defending (well, at least sympathizing with) Sandusky. It isn't exactly a non sequitur to bring him up.


And that's even without getting into the similarities of religion and sports in general, to strengthen the analogy. See the 1982 "Institutionalized Sport as Quasi-Religion: Preliminary Considerations" by M. Kenneth Brody (doi:10.1177/019372357900300203).

The One True TheDavid: The more I think on it the more convinced I become that it's largely a matter of scale: drastically reduce the human population and you drastically reduce its "foibles."


In terms of absolute numbers, apparently yes; in terms of the scale of the foibles relative to the population, possibly no.
You might look into Steven Pinker's "The Better Angels of Our Nature".
 
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